a different view of potassium/sodium and Calcium/Magnesium

[Guest guest]

Dear Joan and all,

 

I would like to share with you an observation concerning the relationships of

Potassium and Sodium as well as Magnesium and Calcium.

 

Consider the following. Though vilified by western cardiology, Sodium has yin

properties: it's cooling and grounding, and furthermore it promotes digestion

in addition to contributing to the secretion of Hydrochloric acid in the

stomach. In moderation, it stimulates and benefits the Kidneys, promotes fluid

metabolism and has a moistening effect beneficial to dryness in the body. It

also detoxifies poisons and softens hardness in the body. Yet because it has an

affinity to water, it settles in the vascular fluids in the body elevating blood

pressure.

 

Potassium, on the other hand is the Yang, flip side of Sodium. Cellularly

Potassium can be found intracellularly whereas Sodium is found extracellularly.

Unlike Sodium, Potassium promotes an upward and outward direction. Therefore,

Potassium excess is manifested as a floating unrooted ungroundedness, prone to

rebellious qi. In contradistinction from sodium, potassium contributes to

fluid elimination from the body.

 

We can also see the same parallel with Calcium and Magnesium. Yin Calcium is

necessary to prevent osteoporosis and osteomalacia. Heavy and calming, Mu Li is

mostly calcium.

 

Yet, without Yang Magnesium to serve as a delivery system to the bones,

Calcium can wreak havoc: causing painful calcium deposits in muscles,

inflammation of nerves, symptoms of fibromyalgia, and the paradoxical result:

osteoporosis. Magnesium is a most efficient calcium channel blocker (without

side effect) to prevent coronary artery calcification. It relaxes muscle spasms

(spleen tonic?) and promotes sound sleep (calms Shen). It also strengthens the

liver and has a built-in regulatory mechanism which indicates if a patient is

taking too much (diarrhea results, and by slightly adjusting the dose it is

resolved). Incidentally, studies have shown that approximately 70% of the US

population suffers magnesium deficiency! I have experimentally used Magnesium

Citrate as a substitute for Da Huang and find it more gently reducing.

 

But the key in both cases of Sodium/Potassium and Calcium/Magnesium is

balance. None of the four are good or bad, and trouble only results from excess

and/or deficiency. (have we heard that before?)

 

So now getting back to your original question, Joan asking for an herb to lower

Potassium, may I suggest that by regulating the balance of Sodium/Potassium you

would do much better than aggresively lowering Potassium. Isn't it interesting

that this patient who excess Potassium comes from a background of diabetes,

wasting and thirsting disease, a patient who probably craves fluid and is yin

xu? It would seem to me that gently adding some of the seaweeds which are high

in sodium perhaps in a formula such as Yu Ye Tang (assuming that the

differential diagnosis fits, of course) might be an approach to consider.

 

Sincerely,

 

Yehuda Frischman, L.Ac, CST, SER,

www.traditionaljewishmedicine.com

 

Lea Starck <leabun1 wrote:

b Licorice (glycyrriza) lowers potassium levels by increasing potassium

excretion from the body. Im not sure how you would incorporate this

into a treatment though. Just be aware that there are a few herbs which

can be high in potassium and should be avoided by those on a low

potassium diet. For more information, go to Dr. James A Dukes herbal

database and you can search by active component or chemical if you

are worried. www.ars-grin.gov/duke/ Compare the amount contained in

the herbs with foods that are recommended to be avoided by those on

a low potassium diet, such as strawberrys or banana, this will give you

a general idea to go by.

regards,

Lea.

Chinese Medicine , David Tarlo

<d1tarlo wrote:

>

> This is only a comment, not a recommendation... you

> need to check it out. A warning was publicized some

> time ago that Noni juice depletes potassium.

>

>

> --- Joan Tirro <acudoctir wrote:

>

> > All Herbalists!!

> >

> > I present a complex case with hopes of someone

> > knowing an answer....an herb to lower potassium

> >

> > 54 year old male. Juvenile diabetic for 40 some

> > years. Great shape. Strict vegetarian for 30 years.

> > Kidney panel within somewhat normal range except

> > for high potassium. Use of meds doesn't help bring

> > down the potassium. Brittle case in that

> > kidney/pancreas no longer dependent on foods

> > ingested. Blood sugar is controlled but keeps him

> > on his toes 24/7 with drops and highs. I need to

> > know of an herb that could possibly lower his

> > potassium level. After all these years of hard work

> > with the kidneys, I'd hate to see him lose the

> > battle to heart failure. I know this is very much

> > part of the disease....but to help him significantly

> > lower potassium would be a great help.

> > Thank you

> > Joan

> >

> >

> > [Non-text portions of this message have been

> > removed]

> >

> >

>

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

http://traditionaljewishmedicine.com/

 

 

 

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things done faster.

 

 

[Guest guest]

Yehuda and Lea

 

Thank you so much for your knowledge and information. In your mentioning Type 1

diabetes, I know now that you understand the problem completely. I will

investigate the formula you mentioned and see that it fits differential

diagnosis.

Thanks for your time and response.

 

Joan

 

-

yehuda frischman

Sunday, November 12, 2006 1:20 PM

Chinese Medicine

a different view of potassium/sodium and Calcium/Magnesium

 

Dear Joan and all,

 

I would like to share with you an observation concerning the relationships of

Potassium and Sodium as well as Magnesium and Calcium.

 

Consider the following. Though vilified by western cardiology, Sodium has yin

properties: it's cooling and grounding, and furthermore it promotes digestion in

addition to contributing to the secretion of Hydrochloric acid in the stomach.

In moderation, it stimulates and benefits the Kidneys, promotes fluid metabolism

and has a moistening effect beneficial to dryness in the body. It also

detoxifies poisons and softens hardness in the body. Yet because it has an

affinity to water, it settles in the vascular fluids in the body elevating blood

pressure.

 

Potassium, on the other hand is the Yang, flip side of Sodium. Cellularly

Potassium can be found intracellularly whereas Sodium is found extracellularly.

Unlike Sodium, Potassium promotes an upward and outward direction Therefore,

Potassium excess is manifested as a floating unrooted ungroundedness, prone to

rebellious qi. In contradistinction from sodium, potassium contributes to fluid

elimination from the body.

 

We can also see the same parallel with Calcium and Magnesium. Yin Calcium is

necessary to prevent osteoporosis and osteomalacia. Heavy and calming, Mu Li is

mostly calcium.

 

Yet, without Yang Magnesium to serve as a delivery system to the bones, Calcium

can wreak havoc: causing painful calcium deposits in muscles, inflammation of

nerves, symptoms of fibromyalgia, and the paradoxical result: osteoporosis.

Magnesium is a most efficient calcium channel blocker (without side effect) to

prevent coronary artery calcification. It relaxes muscle spasms (spleen tonic?)

and promotes sound sleep (calms Shen). It also strengthens the liver and has a

built-in regulatory mechanism which indicates if a patient is taking too much

(diarrhea results, and by slightly adjusting the dose it is resolved).

Incidentally, studies have shown that approximately 70% of the US population

suffers magnesium deficiency! I have experimentally used Magnesium Citrate as a

substitute for Da Huang and find it more gently reducing.

 

But the key in both cases of Sodium/Potassium and Calcium/Magnesium is balance.

None of the four are good or bad, and trouble only results from excess and/or

deficiency. (have we heard that before?)

 

So now getting back to your original question, Joan asking for an herb to lower

Potassium, may I suggest that by regulating the balance of Sodium/Potassium you

would do much better than aggresively lowering Potassium. Isn't it interesting

that this patient who excess Potassium comes from a background of diabetes,

wasting and thirsting disease, a patient who probably craves fluid and is yin

xu? It would seem to me that gently adding some of the seaweeds which are high

in sodium perhaps in a formula such as Yu Ye Tang (assuming that the

differential diagnosis fits, of course) might be an approach to consider.

 

Sincerely,

 

Yehuda Frischman, L.Ac, CST, SER,

www.traditionaljewishmedicine.com

 

Lea Starck <leabun1 wrote:

b Licorice (glycyrriza) lowers potassium levels by increasing potassium

excretion from the body. Im not sure how you would incorporate this

into a treatment though. Just be aware that there are a few herbs which

can be high in potassium and should be avoided by those on a low

potassium diet. For more information, go to Dr. James A Dukes herbal

database and you can search by active component or chemical if you

are worried. www.ars-grin.gov/duke/ Compare the amount contained in

the herbs with foods that are recommended to be avoided by those on

a low potassium diet, such as strawberrys or banana, this will give you

a general idea to go by.

regards,

Lea.

Chinese Medicine , David Tarlo

<d1tarlo wrote:

>

> This is only a comment, not a recommendation... you

> need to check it out. A warning was publicized some

> time ago that Noni juice depletes potassium.

>

>

> --- Joan Tirro <acudoctir wrote:

>

> > All Herbalists!!

> >

> > I present a complex case with hopes of someone

> > knowing an answer....an herb to lower potassium

> >

> > 54 year old male. Juvenile diabetic for 40 some

> > years. Great shape. Strict vegetarian for 30 years.

> > Kidney panel within somewhat normal range except

> > for high potassium. Use of meds doesn't help bring

> > down the potassium. Brittle case in that

> > kidney/pancreas no longer dependent on foods

> > ingested. Blood sugar is controlled but keeps him

> > on his toes 24/7 with drops and highs. I need to

> > know of an herb that could possibly lower his

> > potassium level. After all these years of hard work

> > with the kidneys, I'd hate to see him lose the

> > battle to heart failure. I know this is very much

> > part of the disease....but to help him significantly

> > lower potassium would be a great help.

> > Thank you

> > Joan

> >

> >

> > [Non-text portions of this message have been

> > removed]

> >

> >

>

 

 

http://traditionaljewishmedicine.com/

 

 

Check out the all-new Mail beta - Fire up a more powerful email and get

things done faster.

 

 

[Guest guest]

Hi Joan,

 

I would like to add to Yehuda's and Joan's excellent comments from the

perspective of simple physiology. You did not present info on the

patient's specific dietary practices. Human physiology treats sodium

as " gold " and potassium as " toxic " in that there are numerous

mechanisms for retaining sodium excreting potassium

(renin-angiotensis-aldosterone, sympathetic resonse, kidney cortical

exchange of K+ for Na+). As Yehuda notes potassium is the

intracellular electrolyte of significance. Thus if we eat from nature

we get K+ (perhaps more than we need) and need to find a " salt lick "

for the Na+. The modern grocery store is our too efficacious

salt-lick, hence our modern issues with sodium. Salt (sodium

chloride) was once worth more than gold for reasons of simple

physiology, and the human body still treats it as so. Your patient is

a life long diabetic who may have learned to eat more naturally from

vegetables, fruits and animal products that he prepared himself rather

than buying and preparing the packaged stuff. If he has exercised due

dietary diligence as a long-lived diabetic, he may have a truly

laudable diet which he has simply failed to season adequately. As

Yehuda notes, the WM establishment frightens most of us from creating

balances in our electrolyte intake. Often long-lived diabetics in

their 50s are capable of producing a log of their food intake. You

might ask about this if you haven't yet done so.

 

Yehuda, most graduate students in physiology are overwhelmed by the

regulation of fluid, electrolytes and pH. Congratulations on

broaching this subject. It's not for the faint of heart.

 

Respectfully and gratefully,

Emmanuel Segmen

 

Chinese Medicine , " Joan Tirro "

<acudoctir wrote:

>

> Yehuda and Lea

>

> Thank you so much for your knowledge and information. In your

mentioning Type 1 diabetes, I know now that you understand the problem

completely. I will investigate the formula you mentioned and see that

it fits differential diagnosis.

> Thanks for your time and response.

>

> Joan

>

> -

> yehuda frischman

> Sunday, November 12, 2006 1:20 PM

> Chinese Medicine

> a different view of potassium/sodium and

Calcium/Magnesium

>

> Dear Joan and all,

>

> I would like to share with you an observation concerning the

relationships of Potassium and Sodium as well as Magnesium and Calcium.

>

> Consider the following. Though vilified by western cardiology,

Sodium has yin properties: it's cooling and grounding, and furthermore

it promotes digestion in addition to contributing to the secretion of

Hydrochloric acid in the stomach. In moderation, it stimulates and

benefits the Kidneys, promotes fluid metabolism and has a moistening

effect beneficial to dryness in the body. It also detoxifies poisons

and softens hardness in the body. Yet because it has an affinity to

water, it settles in the vascular fluids in the body elevating blood

pressure.

>

> Potassium, on the other hand is the Yang, flip side of Sodium.

Cellularly Potassium can be found intracellularly whereas Sodium is

found extracellularly. Unlike Sodium, Potassium promotes an upward and

outward direction Therefore, Potassium excess is manifested as a

floating unrooted ungroundedness, prone to rebellious qi. In

contradistinction from sodium, potassium contributes to fluid

elimination from the body.

>

> We can also see the same parallel with Calcium and Magnesium. Yin

Calcium is necessary to prevent osteoporosis and osteomalacia. Heavy

and calming, Mu Li is mostly calcium.

>

> Yet, without Yang Magnesium to serve as a delivery system to the

bones, Calcium can wreak havoc: causing painful calcium deposits in

muscles, inflammation of nerves, symptoms of fibromyalgia, and the

paradoxical result: osteoporosis. Magnesium is a most efficient

calcium channel blocker (without side effect) to prevent coronary

artery calcification. It relaxes muscle spasms (spleen tonic?) and

promotes sound sleep (calms Shen). It also strengthens the liver and

has a built-in regulatory mechanism which indicates if a patient is

taking too much (diarrhea results, and by slightly adjusting the dose

it is resolved). Incidentally, studies have shown that approximately

70% of the US population suffers magnesium deficiency! I have

experimentally used Magnesium Citrate as a substitute for Da Huang and

find it more gently reducing.

>

> But the key in both cases of Sodium/Potassium and Calcium/Magnesium

is balance. None of the four are good or bad, and trouble only results

from excess and/or deficiency. (have we heard that before?)

>

> So now getting back to your original question, Joan asking for an

herb to lower Potassium, may I suggest that by regulating the balance

of Sodium/Potassium you would do much better than aggresively lowering

Potassium. Isn't it interesting that this patient who excess Potassium

comes from a background of diabetes, wasting and thirsting disease, a

patient who probably craves fluid and is yin xu? It would seem to me

that gently adding some of the seaweeds which are high in sodium

perhaps in a formula such as Yu Ye Tang (assuming that the

differential diagnosis fits, of course) might be an approach to

consider.

>

> Sincerely,

>

> Yehuda Frischman, L.Ac, CST, SER,

> www.traditionaljewishmedicine.com

>

> Lea Starck <leabun1 wrote:

> b Licorice (glycyrriza) lowers potassium levels by increasing

potassium

> excretion from the body. Im not sure how you would incorporate this

> into a treatment though. Just be aware that there are a few herbs

which

> can be high in potassium and should be avoided by those on a low

> potassium diet. For more information, go to Dr. James A Dukes herbal

> database and you can search by active component or chemical if you

> are worried. www.ars-grin.gov/duke/ Compare the amount contained in

> the herbs with foods that are recommended to be avoided by those on

> a low potassium diet, such as strawberrys or banana, this will give

you

> a general idea to go by.

> regards,

> Lea.