a different view of potassium/sodium and Calcium/Magnesium, and...

November 13, 2006

Dear Emmanuel and all,

Let's take it one step further. Does this analogy of Yin and Yang minerals

extend beyond the two sets that I mentioned. I know, for example that there is

a definite relationship between Zinc and Copper, but does the analogy apply

there and with others as well.

sincerely,

Yehuda

Emmanuel Segmen <susegmen wrote:

Hi Joan,

I would like to add to Yehuda's and Joan's excellent comments from the

perspective of simple physiology. You did not present info on the

patient's specific dietary practices. Human physiology treats sodium

as " gold " and potassium as " toxic " in that there are numerous

mechanisms for retaining sodium excreting potassium

(renin-angiotensis-aldosterone, sympathetic resonse, kidney cortical

exchange of K+ for Na+). As Yehuda notes potassium is the

intracellular electrolyte of significance. Thus if we eat from nature

we get K+ (perhaps more than we need) and need to find a " salt lick "

for the Na+. The modern grocery store is our too efficacious

salt-lick, hence our modern issues with sodium. Salt (sodium

chloride) was once worth more than gold for reasons of simple

physiology, and the human body still treats it as so. Your patient is

a life long diabetic who may have learned to eat more naturally from

vegetables, fruits and animal products that he prepared himself rather

than buying and preparing the packaged stuff. If he has exercised due

dietary diligence as a long-lived diabetic, he may have a truly

laudable diet which he has simply failed to season adequately. As

Yehuda notes, the WM establishment frightens most of us from creating

balances in our electrolyte intake. Often long-lived diabetics in

their 50s are capable of producing a log of their food intake. You

might ask about this if you haven't yet done so.

Yehuda, most graduate students in physiology are overwhelmed by the

regulation of fluid, electrolytes and pH. Congratulations on

broaching this subject. It's not for the faint of heart.

Respectfully and gratefully,

Emmanuel Segmen

Chinese Medicine , " Joan Tirro "

<acudoctir wrote:

>

> Yehuda and Lea

>

> Thank you so much for your knowledge and information. In your

mentioning Type 1 diabetes, I know now that you understand the problem

completely. I will investigate the formula you mentioned and see that

it fits differential diagnosis.

> Thanks for your time and response.

>

> Joan

>

> -

> yehuda frischman

> Sunday, November 12, 2006 1:20 PM

> Chinese Medicine

> a different view of potassium/sodium and

Calcium/Magnesium

>

> Dear Joan and all,

>

> I would like to share with you an observation concerning the

relationships of Potassium and Sodium as well as Magnesium and Calcium.

>

> Consider the following. Though vilified by western cardiology,

Sodium has yin properties: it's cooling and grounding, and furthermore

it promotes digestion in addition to contributing to the secretion of

Hydrochloric acid in the stomach. In moderation, it stimulates and

benefits the Kidneys, promotes fluid metabolism and has a moistening

effect beneficial to dryness in the body. It also detoxifies poisons

and softens hardness in the body. Yet because it has an affinity to

water, it settles in the vascular fluids in the body elevating blood

pressure.

>

> Potassium, on the other hand is the Yang, flip side of Sodium.

Cellularly Potassium can be found intracellularly whereas Sodium is

found extracellularly. Unlike Sodium, Potassium promotes an upward and

outward direction Therefore, Potassium excess is manifested as a

floating unrooted ungroundedness, prone to rebellious qi. In

contradistinction from sodium, potassium contributes to fluid

elimination from the body.

>

> We can also see the same parallel with Calcium and Magnesium. Yin

Calcium is necessary to prevent osteoporosis and osteomalacia. Heavy

and calming, Mu Li is mostly calcium.

>

> Yet, without Yang Magnesium to serve as a delivery system to the

bones, Calcium can wreak havoc: causing painful calcium deposits in

muscles, inflammation of nerves, symptoms of fibromyalgia, and the

paradoxical result: osteoporosis. Magnesium is a most efficient

calcium channel blocker (without side effect) to prevent coronary

artery calcification. It relaxes muscle spasms (spleen tonic?) and

promotes sound sleep (calms Shen). It also strengthens the liver and

has a built-in regulatory mechanism which indicates if a patient is

taking too much (diarrhea results, and by slightly adjusting the dose

it is resolved). Incidentally, studies have shown that approximately

70% of the US population suffers magnesium deficiency! I have

experimentally used Magnesium Citrate as a substitute for Da Huang and

find it more gently reducing.

>

> But the key in both cases of Sodium/Potassium and Calcium/Magnesium

is balance. None of the four are good or bad, and trouble only results

from excess and/or deficiency. (have we heard that before?)

>

> So now getting back to your original question, Joan asking for an

herb to lower Potassium, may I suggest that by regulating the balance

of Sodium/Potassium you would do much better than aggresively lowering

Potassium. Isn't it interesting that this patient who excess Potassium

comes from a background of diabetes, wasting and thirsting disease, a

patient who probably craves fluid and is yin xu? It would seem to me

that gently adding some of the seaweeds which are high in sodium

perhaps in a formula such as Yu Ye Tang (assuming that the

differential diagnosis fits, of course) might be an approach to

consider.

>

> Sincerely,

>

> Yehuda Frischman, L.Ac, CST, SER,

> www.traditionaljewishmedicine.com

>

> Lea Starck <leabun1 wrote:

> b Licorice (glycyrriza) lowers potassium levels by increasing

potassium

> excretion from the body. Im not sure how you would incorporate this

> into a treatment though. Just be aware that there are a few herbs

which

> can be high in potassium and should be avoided by those on a low

> potassium diet. For more information, go to Dr. James A Dukes herbal

> database and you can search by active component or chemical if you

> are worried. www.ars-grin.gov/duke/ Compare the amount contained in

> the herbs with foods that are recommended to be avoided by those on

> a low potassium diet, such as strawberrys or banana, this will give

you

> a general idea to go by.

> regards,

> Lea.

http://traditionaljewishmedicine.com/

Everyone is raving about the all-new Mail beta.

November 13, 2006

Yehuda & Emmanuel,

Addressing the diet is, as we know, imperative.

Patient has been a strict vegetarian for decades and has a lowered sodium

intake. Does not eat prepared foods and exercises regularly. The problem seems

to be how the kidneys/pancreas are acting independent of what is supplied

nutritionally.

Being a " brittle " diabetic, it seems no matter what is done to counteract a

situation, the body has taken on a will of its' own. I am aware that that's the

nature of diabetes in a late stage, but still, I am preparing to do a hair

analysis (last straw) to see how other ratios are effected.

I would like to continue this off line as to not " hog " the air space.

If interested, please do contact me.

Thank you ever so much for the input. By the way, I still feel I need your

knowledge as I am not formally educated in bio/chemical metabolism. One may

think, why is she going there? Because every medical professional has dropped

the ball on this man.

Gratefully

Joan

-

yehuda frischman

Monday, November 13, 2006 12:04 AM

Chinese Medicine

Re: a different view of potassium/sodium and Calcium/Magnesium,

and...

Dear Emmanuel and all,

Let's take it one step further. Does this analogy of Yin and Yang minerals

extend beyond the two sets that I mentioned. I know, for example that there is a

definite relationship between Zinc and Copper, but does the analogy apply there

and with others as well.