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Hi Andrea,

 

Here are my thoughts:

 

I am not sure what you mean by " latent pathogen axis " but I would not

call this Latent. I would call it a lingering pathogen since that is

what it is doing but that lingo doesn't tell us anything except that

it is lingering.

 

I believe the key here is careful diagnosis. This should be done

step by step. First, there is a pathogen and it has to be located

and its nature must be identified. You could think about her

deficiency but that should really wait until she is clear of the

pathogen imho.

 

So,identifying the pathogen: this pathogen is for sure dampheat.

How do we know this? There is for sure dampness - sticky tongue

moss, symptoms worse with damp weather. There is also definitely

heat - red tongue edges, yellow color of sticky tongue moss, hot

belly and sensitivity to light. These together - especially the

yellow sticky tongue, tell us dampheat. In terms of locating the

pathogen, since she doesn't have alternating chills and fever, nor

any other shao yang symptoms, I would not locate it in the Shao Yang

nor use Xiao Chai Hu Tang. So, now, where is the pathogen? The

symptoms tell us. It is in her head and muscles but also

everywhere. It sounds like it has cleared from her spleen with your

treatments and enzymes to some extent.

 

In terms of your diagnosis I don't see Shao Yang, Spleen Qi

deficiency, Kidney Qi deficiency, Wei Qi deficiency or pure damp.

The diagnosis of dampheat in the Spleen, head, muscles and effecting

her shen explains every sign and symptom. She is young and was

strong prior to this invasion so I would strongly avoid tonification

until the true pathogen is cleared.

 

So, how to clear it?

 

Dampheat is tricky - you can't directly dry because it makes the heat

worse. You can't clear the heat because it makes the damp worse.

The method for such all encompassing dampheat is to:

 

1. use aromatic herbs to gently transform damp

2. adjust the Qi mechanism so the Zheng Qi itself can clear the

dampheat (Qi mechanism meaning the up and down movement in the body)

You do this with some bitter fragrant herbs and bland dampheat

draining herbs to go down combined with light fragrant ones to go up.

3. Drain some dampheat out of the urination with bland cooling

draining herbs.

4. clear dampheat from the channels

 

 

 

 

I think Huo Xiang Zheng Qi Tang as a base would be good with the

following additions and subtractions:

 

take out Jie Geng and Bai Zhu

 

Add Hua Shi, Qiang Huo, Fang Ji, Shi Chang Pu

 

I would wonder about blood stasis since this followed surgery but her

tongue is not purple and there are no other signs and symptoms of

this. Pathogens can enter in the surgery. If it is from the

anesthesia, it doesn't matter. I have treated chemical exposures and

lot and if you follow the Chinese diagnostic guidelines, you can

treat it successfully.

 

It will take a couple of weeks for her to feel a lot better but

she'll feel the benefit right away I bet.

 

Hope this helps,

 

Sharon

 

 

 

Hi All,

 

I have an 18-year old female patient who has had constant headaches

for the last 5 years. She has seen all the western docs, had all the

tests done, and nothing is conclusive. Her neurologist referred her

for acupuncture.

 

Her history is most interesting. Prior to her headaches, she had a

bout of mononucleosis at age 13, followed by removal of her tonsils.

After the surgery, her headaches started. One of the things I am

wondering, is whether is might be a long-lasting side effect of the

anesthesia?

 

On her first visit, she appeared morose, depressed, lethargic, and

extremely, ghastly pale. She wears sunglasses and a hat indoors,

because light aggravates her headaches. Headaches are also aggravated

by exposure to humid weather and cold, damp weather. Other symptoms

included achy joints in her hands and fingers, knees, and hips, which

also worsened with the same kinds of weather that aggravates the

headaches. Other complaints also included difficulty sleeping -

restless tossing and turning; profound fatigue, and loss of appetite.

In addition, her hands and feet were extremely cold and damp, with

her abdomen feeling burning hot and sweaty on palpation. Note that

she wore gloves and thermal underwear underneath her clothes and

heavy jacket on an 85-degree day. Yes, she complained of feeling cold

all the time.

 

6 acupuncture treatments have not impacted her headache in the

slightest. I have worked to raise yang, release muscle tension in the

neck and shoulders, down-bear liver yang, and tonify qi to no avail.

However, her sleep has improved to the point that she is now sleeping

soundly through the night and does not need to spend her days

languishing exhausted in bed. Her appetite has improved with

digestive enzymes. Her energy has increased to the point that she has

taken up skateboarding on warm days! Her mood is greatly improved,

and she laughs and smiles when she comes for her appointments now.

She is interested in learning what she can to do help herself heal.

 

Part of her problem is that she has been a vegetarian most of her

life, and has not eaten any red meat since age 3. Her muscles are

very weak and droopy, without shape or vigor. She has an issue about

eating anything " that has eyes " . She is thirsty all the time. There

are no complaints about digestion, defecation, or urination.

 

Her MD's have suggested that she might have Epstein-Barr, or

fibromyalgia, or " mono in her bones " .

 

Last spring, she had a rare form of pneumonia caused by Chlamydia in

her lungs, which caused her to lose a great deal of weight. She was

severely ill for 5 months before coming to see me. She had been

gaining 10 pounds per month prior to the pneumonia, with no cause

diagnosable by her doctors. Her mother claimed she had not increased

her food intake.

 

Her tongue is pale pink with a slightly red tip and sides, and a wet,

thin, sticky yellow coat.

Her pulse is weak and fine on the right, soft and weak on the left,

medium depth, at 70 beats per minute.

 

She has dark circles under her eyes.

 

Before having mono, she says her health was great.

 

Her headaches are mostly onthe right temporal-vertex region of her

head, and slightly on the left side also. They are there all the

time, varying only in severity. At their most severe, her right

eyelid droops and her vision in her right eye is impaired.

 

I have diagnosed her with a shao yang disorder, also with spleen qi

deficiency generating dampness, and kidney qi deficiency. There is

also a wei qi deficiency. I'm not sure about the latent pathogen

axis. I could benefit from some guidance at this point.

 

I have given her two different herbal formulas - Si Ni San, for the

possibility that she did have heat constrained in the interior all

this time, as reflected by her hot abdomen, with her cold hands and

feet. The coldness in her hands and feet improved only slightly with

this formula. I also gave her Tong Qiao Huo Xue Tang for the

headache, on the basis that any 5-year headache would have stagnant

blood as part of its disharmony. The headache did not change with

this formula.

 

I am now looking at Xiao Chai Hu Tang, and wondering if there is

something I am missing. One of the things I am wondering about is her

inordinate sense of cold. Could she have a cold pathogen lodged in

her head causing the headaches? And what about the possibility that

this is somehow due to some damage from anesthesia during her surgery

- how would we treat that?

 

This young woman has been home-schooled during the last 5 years due

to her intolerance of noise, light, and crowds. She has missed out on

her teen years. I'd like to give her her life back.

 

Oh yeah, a related question - how long should we administer formulae

like Si Ni San or Tong Qiao Huo Xue Tang or Xiao Chai Hu Tang, before

expecting to see results or trying a different approach? In a case

like this, would we give a higher dose?

 

Any ideas are most welcome.

 

Sharon Weizenbaum

86 Henry Street

Amherst, MA 01002

413-549-4021

sweiz

www.whitepinehealingarts.com

 

 

 

 

 

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Posted

Interesting approach. Why take out the bai zhu?

 

 

 

Bart

 

 

 

_____

 

 

On Behalf Of sharon weizenbaum

Tuesday, November 21, 2006 9:03 AM

 

Re:Help for 5 years of daily headaches

 

 

 

Hi Andrea,

 

Here are my thoughts:

 

I am not sure what you mean by " latent pathogen axis " but I would not

call this Latent. I would call it a lingering pathogen since that is

what it is doing but that lingo doesn't tell us anything except that

it is lingering.

 

I believe the key here is careful diagnosis. This should be done

step by step. First, there is a pathogen and it has to be located

and its nature must be identified. You could think about her

deficiency but that should really wait until she is clear of the

pathogen imho.

 

So,identifying the pathogen: this pathogen is for sure dampheat.

How do we know this? There is for sure dampness - sticky tongue

moss, symptoms worse with damp weather. There is also definitely

heat - red tongue edges, yellow color of sticky tongue moss, hot

belly and sensitivity to light. These together - especially the

yellow sticky tongue, tell us dampheat. In terms of locating the

pathogen, since she doesn't have alternating chills and fever, nor

any other shao yang symptoms, I would not locate it in the Shao Yang

nor use Xiao Chai Hu Tang. So, now, where is the pathogen? The

symptoms tell us. It is in her head and muscles but also

everywhere. It sounds like it has cleared from her spleen with your

treatments and enzymes to some extent.

 

In terms of your diagnosis I don't see Shao Yang, Spleen Qi

deficiency, Kidney Qi deficiency, Wei Qi deficiency or pure damp.

The diagnosis of dampheat in the Spleen, head, muscles and effecting

her shen explains every sign and symptom. She is young and was

strong prior to this invasion so I would strongly avoid tonification

until the true pathogen is cleared.

 

So, how to clear it?

 

Dampheat is tricky - you can't directly dry because it makes the heat

worse. You can't clear the heat because it makes the damp worse.

The method for such all encompassing dampheat is to:

 

1. use aromatic herbs to gently transform damp

2. adjust the Qi mechanism so the Zheng Qi itself can clear the

dampheat (Qi mechanism meaning the up and down movement in the body)

You do this with some bitter fragrant herbs and bland dampheat

draining herbs to go down combined with light fragrant ones to go up.

3. Drain some dampheat out of the urination with bland cooling

draining herbs.

4. clear dampheat from the channels

 

I think Huo Xiang Zheng Qi Tang as a base would be good with the

following additions and subtractions:

 

take out Jie Geng and Bai Zhu

 

Add Hua Shi, Qiang Huo, Fang Ji, Shi Chang Pu

 

I would wonder about blood stasis since this followed surgery but her

tongue is not purple and there are no other signs and symptoms of

this. Pathogens can enter in the surgery. If it is from the

anesthesia, it doesn't matter. I have treated chemical exposures and

lot and if you follow the Chinese diagnostic guidelines, you can

treat it successfully.

 

It will take a couple of weeks for her to feel a lot better but

she'll feel the benefit right away I bet.

 

Hope this helps,

 

Sharon

 

Hi All,

 

I have an 18-year old female patient who has had constant headaches

for the last 5 years. She has seen all the western docs, had all the

tests done, and nothing is conclusive. Her neurologist referred her

for acupuncture.

 

Her history is most interesting. Prior to her headaches, she had a

bout of mononucleosis at age 13, followed by removal of her tonsils.

After the surgery, her headaches started. One of the things I am

wondering, is whether is might be a long-lasting side effect of the

anesthesia?

 

On her first visit, she appeared morose, depressed, lethargic, and

extremely, ghastly pale. She wears sunglasses and a hat indoors,

because light aggravates her headaches. Headaches are also aggravated

by exposure to humid weather and cold, damp weather. Other symptoms

included achy joints in her hands and fingers, knees, and hips, which

also worsened with the same kinds of weather that aggravates the

headaches. Other complaints also included difficulty sleeping -

restless tossing and turning; profound fatigue, and loss of appetite.

In addition, her hands and feet were extremely cold and damp, with

her abdomen feeling burning hot and sweaty on palpation. Note that

she wore gloves and thermal underwear underneath her clothes and

heavy jacket on an 85-degree day. Yes, she complained of feeling cold

all the time.

 

6 acupuncture treatments have not impacted her headache in the

slightest. I have worked to raise yang, release muscle tension in the

neck and shoulders, down-bear liver yang, and tonify qi to no avail.

However, her sleep has improved to the point that she is now sleeping

soundly through the night and does not need to spend her days

languishing exhausted in bed. Her appetite has improved with

digestive enzymes. Her energy has increased to the point that she has

taken up skateboarding on warm days! Her mood is greatly improved,

and she laughs and smiles when she comes for her appointments now.

She is interested in learning what she can to do help herself heal.

 

Part of her problem is that she has been a vegetarian most of her

life, and has not eaten any red meat since age 3. Her muscles are

very weak and droopy, without shape or vigor. She has an issue about

eating anything " that has eyes " . She is thirsty all the time. There

are no complaints about digestion, defecation, or urination.

 

Her MD's have suggested that she might have Epstein-Barr, or

fibromyalgia, or " mono in her bones " .

 

Last spring, she had a rare form of pneumonia caused by Chlamydia in

her lungs, which caused her to lose a great deal of weight. She was

severely ill for 5 months before coming to see me. She had been

gaining 10 pounds per month prior to the pneumonia, with no cause

diagnosable by her doctors. Her mother claimed she had not increased

her food intake.

 

Her tongue is pale pink with a slightly red tip and sides, and a wet,

thin, sticky yellow coat.

Her pulse is weak and fine on the right, soft and weak on the left,

medium depth, at 70 beats per minute.

 

She has dark circles under her eyes.

 

Before having mono, she says her health was great.

 

Her headaches are mostly onthe right temporal-vertex region of her

head, and slightly on the left side also. They are there all the

time, varying only in severity. At their most severe, her right

eyelid droops and her vision in her right eye is impaired.

 

I have diagnosed her with a shao yang disorder, also with spleen qi

deficiency generating dampness, and kidney qi deficiency. There is

also a wei qi deficiency. I'm not sure about the latent pathogen

axis. I could benefit from some guidance at this point.

 

I have given her two different herbal formulas - Si Ni San, for the

possibility that she did have heat constrained in the interior all

this time, as reflected by her hot abdomen, with her cold hands and

feet. The coldness in her hands and feet improved only slightly with

this formula. I also gave her Tong Qiao Huo Xue Tang for the

headache, on the basis that any 5-year headache would have stagnant

blood as part of its disharmony. The headache did not change with

this formula.

 

I am now looking at Xiao Chai Hu Tang, and wondering if there is

something I am missing. One of the things I am wondering about is her

inordinate sense of cold. Could she have a cold pathogen lodged in

her head causing the headaches? And what about the possibility that

this is somehow due to some damage from anesthesia during her surgery

- how would we treat that?

 

This young woman has been home-schooled during the last 5 years due

to her intolerance of noise, light, and crowds. She has missed out on

her teen years. I'd like to give her her life back.

 

Oh yeah, a related question - how long should we administer formulae

like Si Ni San or Tong Qiao Huo Xue Tang or Xiao Chai Hu Tang, before

expecting to see results or trying a different approach? In a case

like this, would we give a higher dose?

 

Any ideas are most welcome.

 

Sharon Weizenbaum

86 Henry Street

Amherst, MA 01002

413-549-4021

sweiz <sweiz%40rcn.com>

www.whitepinehealingarts.com

 

 

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Posted
Posted

hello andrea

you have provided a very interesting case history for an armchair practitioner

such as myself….my

tcm diagnosis of this case....and i just read sharons analysis but i would

counter that i don't

really see DampHeat....what minor heat signs you described can all be explained

by Dampness

causing obstruction...... without actually seeing the patient your description

leads me to a

primarily def condition

 

diagnosis: Spleen/Kidney Yang Qi def leading to Cold Damp/Phlegm obstruction

tx: warm Spleen and Kidney yang to drain damp and clear phlegm obstruction

formula: modified bu zhong yi qi tang

lifestyle modification: modify diet to include moderate amounts of high quality

protein....without

eyeballs

gentle exercise program to invigorate,

motivate qi, improve

sleep

 

jahan

 

 

 

--- < wrote:

 

> Hi All,

>

> I have an 18-year old female patient who has had constant headaches for the

last 5 years. She

> has seen all the western docs, had all the tests done, and nothing is

conclusive. Her

> neurologist referred her for acupuncture.

>

> Her history is most interesting. Prior to her headaches, she had a bout of

mononucleosis at

> age 13, followed by removal of her tonsils. After the surgery, her headaches

started. One of

> the things I am wondering, is whether is might be a long-lasting side effect

of the anesthesia?

>

> On her first visit, she appeared morose, depressed, lethargic, and

extremely, ghastly pale.

> She wears sunglasses and a hat indoors, because light aggravates her

headaches. Headaches are

> also aggravated by exposure to humid weather and cold, damp weather. Other

symptoms included

> achy joints in her hands and fingers, knees, and hips, which also worsened

with the same kinds

> of weather that aggravates the headaches. Other complaints also included

difficulty sleeping -

> restless tossing and turning; profound fatigue, and loss of appetite. In

addition, her hands

> and feet were extremely cold and damp, with her abdomen feeling burning hot

and sweaty on

> palpation. Note that she wore gloves and thermal underwear underneath her

clothes and heavy

> jacket on an 85-degree day. Yes, she complained of feeling cold all the time.

>

> 6 acupuncture treatments have not impacted her headache in the slightest.

I have worked to

> raise yang, release muscle tension in the neck and shoulders, downbear liver

yang, and tonify qi

> to no avail. However, her sleep has improved to the point that she is now

sleeping soundly

> through the night and does not need to spend her days languishing exhausted in

bed. Her

> appetite has improved with digestive enzymes. Her energy has increased to the

point that she

> has taken up skateboarding on warm days! Her mood is greatly improved, and

she laughs and

> smiles when she comes for her appointments now. She is interested in learning

what she can to

> do help herself heal.

>

> Part of her problem is that she has been a vegetarian most of her life, and

has not eaten any

> red meat since age 3. Her muscles are very weak and droopy, without shape or

vigor. She has

> an issue about eating anything " that has eyes " . She is thirsty all the time.

There are no

> complaints about digestion, defecation, or urination.

>

> Her MD's have suggested that she might have Epstein-Barr, or fibromyalgia,

or " mono in her

> bones " .

>

> Last spring, she had a rare form of pneumonia caused by Chlamydia in her

lungs, which caused

> her to lose a great deal of weight. She was severely ill for 5 months before

coming to see me.

> She had been gaining 10 pounds per month prior to the pneumonia, with no cause

diagnosable by

> her doctors. Her mother claimed she had not increased her food intake.

>

> Her tongue is pale pink with a slightly red tip and sides, and a wet, thin,

sticky yellow

> coat.

> Her pulse is weak and fine on the right, soft and weak on the left, medium

depth, at 70 beats

> per minute.

>

> She has dark circles under her eyes.

>

> Before having mono, she says her health was great.

>

> Her headaches are mostly onthe right temporal-vertex region of her head, and

slightly on the

> left side also. They are there all the time, varying only in severity. At

their most severe,

> her right eyelid droops and her vision in her right eye is impaired.

>

> I have diagnosed her with a shao yang disorder, also with spleen qi

deficiency generating

> dampness, and kidney qi deficiency. There is also a wei qi deficiency. I'm

not sure about the

> latent pathogen axis. I could benefit from some guidance at this point.

>

> I have given her two different herbal formulas - Si Ni San, for the

possibility that she did

> have heat constrained in the interior all this time, as reflected by her hot

abdomen, with her

> cold hands and feet. The coldness in her hands and feet improved only

slightly with this

> formula. I also gave her Tong Qiao Huo Xue Tang for the headache, on the

basis that any 5-year

> headache would have stagnant blood as part of its disharmony. The headache

did not change with

> this formula.

>

> I am now looking at Xiao Chai Hu Tang, and wondering if there is something I

am missing. One

> of the things I am wondering about is her inordinate sense of cold. Could she

have a cold

> pathogen lodged in her head causing the headaches? And what about the

possibility that this is

> somehow due to some damage from anesthesia during her surgery - how would we

treat that?

>

> This young woman has been home-schooled during the last 5 years due to her

intolerance of

> noise, light, and crowds. She has missed out on her teen years. I'd like to

give her her life

> back.

>

> Oh yeah, a related question - how long should we administer formulae like Si

Ni San or Tong

> Qiao Huo Xue Tang or Xiao Chai Hu Tang, before expecting to see results or

trying a different

> approach? In a case like this, would we give a higher dose?

>

> Any ideas are most welcome.

>

> Thank you,

>

>

>

>

>

>

> Sponsored Link

>

> Mortgage rates as low as 4.625% - $150,000 loan for $579 a month.

Intro-*Terms

>

>

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Posted
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Hi Andrea:

 

I agree with Majid. The head with all its cranial bones, cervical

bones, cartilage, etc. is a huge three dimensional puzzle.

Surgically removing one of those elements is going to throw

everything off. Certainly taking glands out is going to cause subtle

bone movement.

 

I never realized this until I recently started wearing invisalign

retainers to straighten my teeth. I wear each retainer for two weeks

and then switch to a tighter pair. Well . . . I have experienced

serious tinitus (sounds like standing in front of an aircraft) and

some very painful sinus, temple, occipital headaches. Once my teeth

are moved to the position designated by retainer I am wearing, all

symptoms go away. But, I did find a way to treat myself for those

annoying symptoms of " blockages " caused by subtle bone movements. I

use the ETPS device on negative(-) to disperse the blocked energy.

It works instantly. You can use directly on the cranial points,

temple points, or anywhere along the channels involved. Definitely

want to use negative, though, to disperse. I am not sure a regular

electro-stim unit with electrodes attached to needles would work.

Needs to be " direct " current.

 

Also, if you know cranial-sacral manipulation, try that on your

patient.

 

Eceela, AP, Florida

 

Hi All,

>

> I have an 18-year old female patient who has had constant

headaches for the last 5 years. She has seen all the western docs,

had all the tests done, and nothing is conclusive. Her neurologist

referred her for acupuncture.

>

> Her history is most interesting. Prior to her headaches, she

had a bout of mononucleosis at age 13, followed by removal of her

tonsils. After the surgery, her headaches started. One of the

things I am wondering, is whether is might be a long-lasting side

effect of the anesthesia?

>

> On her first visit, she appeared morose, depressed, lethargic,

and extremely, ghastly pale. She wears sunglasses and a hat

indoors, because light aggravates her headaches. Headaches are also

aggravated by exposure to humid weather and cold, damp weather.

Other symptoms included achy joints in her hands and fingers, knees,

and hips, which also worsened with the same kinds of weather that

aggravates the headaches. Other complaints also included difficulty

sleeping - restless tossing and turning; profound fatigue, and loss

of appetite. In addition, her hands and feet were extremely cold

and damp, with her abdomen feeling burning hot and sweaty on

palpation. Note that she wore gloves and thermal underwear

underneath her clothes and heavy jacket on an 85-degree day. Yes,

she complained of feeling cold all the time.

>

> 6 acupuncture treatments have not impacted her headache in the

slightest. I have worked to raise yang, release muscle tension in

the neck and shoulders, downbear liver yang, and tonify qi to no

avail. However, her sleep has improved to the point that she is now

sleeping soundly through the night and does not need to spend her

days languishing exhausted in bed. Her appetite has improved with

digestive enzymes. Her energy has increased to the point that she

has taken up skateboarding on warm days! Her mood is greatly

improved, and she laughs and smiles when she comes for her

appointments now. She is interested in learning what she can to do

help herself heal.

>

> Part of her problem is that she has been a vegetarian most of

her life, and has not eaten any red meat since age 3. Her muscles

are very weak and droopy, without shape or vigor. She has an issue

about eating anything " that has eyes " . She is thirsty all the

time. There are no complaints about digestion, defecation, or

urination.

>

> Her MD's have suggested that she might have Epstein-Barr, or

fibromyalgia, or " mono in her bones " .

>

> Last spring, she had a rare form of pneumonia caused by

Chlamydia in her lungs, which caused her to lose a great deal of

weight. She was severely ill for 5 months before coming to see me.

She had been gaining 10 pounds per month prior to the pneumonia,

with no cause diagnosable by her doctors. Her mother claimed she

had not increased her food intake.

>

> Her tongue is pale pink with a slightly red tip and sides, and a

wet, thin, sticky yellow coat.

> Her pulse is weak and fine on the right, soft and weak on the

left, medium depth, at 70 beats per minute.

>

> She has dark circles under her eyes.

>

> Before having mono, she says her health was great.

>

> Her headaches are mostly onthe right temporal-vertex region of

her head, and slightly on the left side also. They are there all

the time, varying only in severity. At their most severe, her right

eyelid droops and her vision in her right eye is impaired.

>

> I have diagnosed her with a shao yang disorder, also with spleen

qi deficiency generating dampness, and kidney qi deficiency. There

is also a wei qi deficiency. I'm not sure about the latent pathogen

axis. I could benefit from some guidance at this point.

>

> I have given her two different herbal formulas - Si Ni San, for

the possibility that she did have heat constrained in the interior

all this time, as reflected by her hot abdomen, with her cold hands

and feet. The coldness in her hands and feet improved only slightly

with this formula. I also gave her Tong Qiao Huo Xue Tang for the

headache, on the basis that any 5-year headache would have stagnant

blood as part of its disharmony. The headache did not change with

this formula.

>

> I am now looking at Xiao Chai Hu Tang, and wondering if there is

something I am missing. One of the things I am wondering about is

her inordinate sense of cold. Could she have a cold pathogen lodged

in her head causing the headaches? And what about the possibility

that this is somehow due to some damage from anesthesia during her

surgery - how would we treat that?

>

> This young woman has been home-schooled during the last 5 years

due to her intolerance of noise, light, and crowds. She has missed

out on her teen years. I'd like to give her her life back.

>

> Oh yeah, a related question - how long should we administer

formulae like Si Ni San or Tong Qiao Huo Xue Tang or Xiao Chai Hu

Tang, before expecting to see results or trying a different

approach? In a case like this, would we give a higher dose?

>

> Any ideas are most welcome.

>

> Thank you,

>

>

>

>

>

>

> Sponsored Link

>

> Mortgage rates as low as 4.625% - $150,000 loan for $579 a

month. Intro-*Terms

>

>

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Posted
Posted

Actually, I think Sharon¹s pattern differentiation is correct. But I

question the omission of bai zhu.

also; due to the chronic nature of the disorder, I would add an herb to

move the blood. When there is qi stagnation over a long period of time, as

well as the intractable nature of the disorder, the blood is affected.

thus: herbs such as chuan xiong come to mind. Another thought, a la tian ma

gou teng yin, is to add yi mu cao or niu xi: to conduct blood away from the

head.

 

Also another thought: because of the cold feet and warm abdomen, a

harmonizing strategy may be in order. The formula that comes to mind is ban

xia xie xin tang ( or huang lian tang). BXXXT is a variation of xiao Chai hu

tang, but deals nicely with the faulty qi dynamic of heat and cold

together.

 

That said: I think Chai hu should be avoided. It¹s upward moving nature can

exacerbate headaches.

 

Just my 2 cents

 

Cara O. Frank, R.Ac, Dipl Ac & Ch.H.

President China Herb Company of the Chinese Herb Program

Tai Sophia Institute of the Healing Arts

215-438-2977

Fax 215-849-3338

 

 

 

 

jahan dadgar <jahandadgar

 

Tue, 21 Nov 2006 12:03:59 -0800 (PST)

 

Re: Help for 5 years of daily headaches

 

 

 

 

 

hello andrea

you have provided a very interesting case history for an armchair

practitioner such as myself….my

tcm diagnosis of this case....and i just read sharons analysis but i would

counter that i don't

really see DampHeat....what minor heat signs you described can all be

explained by Dampness

causing obstruction...... without actually seeing the patient your

description leads me to a

primarily def condition

 

diagnosis: Spleen/Kidney Yang Qi def leading to Cold Damp/Phlegm obstruction

tx: warm Spleen and Kidney yang to drain damp and clear phlegm obstruction

formula: modified bu zhong yi qi tang

lifestyle modification: modify diet to include moderate amounts of high

quality protein....without

eyeballs

gentle exercise program to invigorate, motivate qi, improve

sleep

 

jahan

 

--- < <%40> >

wrote:

 

> Hi All,

>

> I have an 18-year old female patient who has had constant headaches for the

last 5 years. She

> has seen all the western docs, had all the tests done, and nothing is

conclusive. Her

> neurologist referred her for acupuncture.

>

> Her history is most interesting. Prior to her headaches, she had a bout of

mononucleosis at

> age 13, followed by removal of her tonsils. After the surgery, her headaches

started. One of

> the things I am wondering, is whether is might be a long-lasting side effect

of the anesthesia?

>

> On her first visit, she appeared morose, depressed, lethargic, and

extremely, ghastly pale.

> She wears sunglasses and a hat indoors, because light aggravates her

headaches. Headaches are

> also aggravated by exposure to humid weather and cold, damp weather. Other

symptoms included

> achy joints in her hands and fingers, knees, and hips, which also worsened

with the same kinds

> of weather that aggravates the headaches. Other complaints also included

difficulty sleeping -

> restless tossing and turning; profound fatigue, and loss of appetite. In

addition, her hands

> and feet were extremely cold and damp, with her abdomen feeling burning hot

and sweaty on

> palpation. Note that she wore gloves and thermal underwear underneath her

clothes and heavy

> jacket on an 85-degree day. Yes, she complained of feeling cold all the time.

>

> 6 acupuncture treatments have not impacted her headache in the slightest.

I have worked to

> raise yang, release muscle tension in the neck and shoulders, downbear liver

yang, and tonify qi

> to no avail. However, her sleep has improved to the point that she is now

sleeping soundly

> through the night and does not need to spend her days languishing exhausted in

bed. Her

> appetite has improved with digestive enzymes. Her energy has increased to the

point that she

> has taken up skateboarding on warm days! Her mood is greatly improved, and

she laughs and

> smiles when she comes for her appointments now. She is interested in learning

what she can to

> do help herself heal.

>

> Part of her problem is that she has been a vegetarian most of her life, and

has not eaten any

> red meat since age 3. Her muscles are very weak and droopy, without shape or

vigor. She has

> an issue about eating anything " that has eyes " . She is thirsty all the time.

There are no

> complaints about digestion, defecation, or urination.

>

> Her MD's have suggested that she might have Epstein-Barr, or fibromyalgia,

or " mono in her

> bones " .

>

> Last spring, she had a rare form of pneumonia caused by Chlamydia in her

lungs, which caused

> her to lose a great deal of weight. She was severely ill for 5 months before

coming to see me.

> She had been gaining 10 pounds per month prior to the pneumonia, with no cause

diagnosable by

> her doctors. Her mother claimed she had not increased her food intake.

>

> Her tongue is pale pink with a slightly red tip and sides, and a wet, thin,

sticky yellow

> coat.

> Her pulse is weak and fine on the right, soft and weak on the left, medium

depth, at 70 beats

> per minute.

>

> She has dark circles under her eyes.

>

> Before having mono, she says her health was great.

>

> Her headaches are mostly onthe right temporal-vertex region of her head, and

slightly on the

> left side also. They are there all the time, varying only in severity. At

their most severe,

> her right eyelid droops and her vision in her right eye is impaired.

>

> I have diagnosed her with a shao yang disorder, also with spleen qi

deficiency generating

> dampness, and kidney qi deficiency. There is also a wei qi deficiency. I'm

not sure about the

> latent pathogen axis. I could benefit from some guidance at this point.

>

> I have given her two different herbal formulas - Si Ni San, for the

possibility that she did

> have heat constrained in the interior all this time, as reflected by her hot

abdomen, with her

> cold hands and feet. The coldness in her hands and feet improved only

slightly with this

> formula. I also gave her Tong Qiao Huo Xue Tang for the headache, on the

basis that any 5-year

> headache would have stagnant blood as part of its disharmony. The headache

did not change with

> this formula.

>

> I am now looking at Xiao Chai Hu Tang, and wondering if there is something I

am missing. One

> of the things I am wondering about is her inordinate sense of cold. Could she

have a cold

> pathogen lodged in her head causing the headaches? And what about the

possibility that this is

> somehow due to some damage from anesthesia during her surgery - how would we

treat that?

>

> This young woman has been home-schooled during the last 5 years due to her

intolerance of

> noise, light, and crowds. She has missed out on her teen years. I'd like to

give her her life

> back.

>

> Oh yeah, a related question - how long should we administer formulae like Si

Ni San or Tong

> Qiao Huo Xue Tang or Xiao Chai Hu Tang, before expecting to see results or

trying a different

> approach? In a case like this, would we give a higher dose?

>

> Any ideas are most welcome.

>

> Thank you,

>

>

>

>

>

>

> Sponsored Link

>

> Mortgage rates as low as 4.625% - $150,000 loan for $579 a month.

Intro-*Terms

>

>

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Posted
Posted

Hello Beth!

 

A great source of protein that does not come from killing things with eyes

is Whey Protein. Well absorbed, esp if you mix it with other foods... maybe

a berry smoothy or something like that.

 

2 scoops a day might be a good goal. That's 56 g. protein.

 

In a message dated 11/22/2006 9:38:21 A.M. Central Standard Time, @y

ahoo.com writes:

 

Thank you, Jahan. I am wondering what you include as sources of " high

quality protein... without eyeballs " ? This has been one of the things she and I

have been wondering about. Bu Zhong Yi Qi Tang is one of the formulas I have

considered for her.

 

, L.Ac.

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Posted
Posted

Dear Andrea ,Phil

use auricular therapy and as Phil has mentioned use

laser (locally) if you can .

 

regards.

Dr.Fadaie

--- < wrote:

 

> Thank you for your response, Majid. I hadn't

> considered the scars, but how do you needle a scar

> that is deep inside the mouth? I wil check the ear

> points you suggested - great idea!

>

> Andrea Beth

>

> majid fadaie <majidfadaie51 wrote:

> Dear Andrea Hi.

>

> I think your answer is in your history

> > Prior to her headaches, she had a bout of

> mononucleosis at age 13, followed by removal of her

> tonsils. After the surgery, her headaches started.

>

> one of the main reasons for relapses and hard

> responding patients are scars of surgery

> ,tonsillectomy , she may have sinusitis and dental

> problems as well.

>

> but most important of all see from ear if the

> pharynx

> ,tonsils ( site of the operations ),sinuses has

> become

> tender or you may find and changes in electrical

> potentials there. check if it is right ear or left

> .or

> needle both side ,

>

> +local points ( Temple ,---)

> + psychotropic points , depression , anxiety ,Valium

> .....

>

> + shen , thalamus ....

>

> I think you main work will be to work on the scar.

>

> regards.

> Dr,Fadaie

> >

>

> --- < wrote:

>

> > Hi All,

> >

> > I have an 18-year old female patient who has had

> > constant headaches for the last 5 years. She has

> > seen all the western docs, had all the tests done,

> > and nothing is conclusive. Her neurologist

> referred

> > her for acupuncture.

> >

> > Her history is most interesting. Prior to her

> > headaches, she had a bout of mononucleosis at age

> > 13, followed by removal of her tonsils. After the

> > surgery, her headaches started. One of the things

> I

> > am wondering, is whether is might be a

> long-lasting

> > side effect of the anesthesia?

> >

> > On her first visit, she appeared morose,

> > depressed, lethargic, and extremely, ghastly pale.

>

> > She wears sunglasses and a hat indoors, because

> > light aggravates her headaches. Headaches are also

> > aggravated by exposure to humid weather and cold,

> > damp weather. Other symptoms included achy joints

> > in her hands and fingers, knees, and hips, which

> > also worsened with the same kinds of weather that

> > aggravates the headaches. Other complaints also

> > included difficulty sleeping - restless tossing

> and

> > turning; profound fatigue, and loss of appetite.

> In

> > addition, her hands and feet were extremely cold

> and

> > damp, with her abdomen feeling burning hot and

> > sweaty on palpation. Note that she wore gloves and

> > thermal underwear underneath her clothes and heavy

> > jacket on an 85-degree day. Yes, she complained of

> > feeling cold all the time.

> >

> > 6 acupuncture treatments have not impacted her

> > headache in the slightest. I have worked to raise

> > yang, release muscle tension in the neck and

> > shoulders, downbear liver yang, and tonify qi to

> no

> > avail. However, her sleep has improved to the

> point

> > that she is now sleeping soundly through the night

> > and does not need to spend her days languishing

> > exhausted in bed. Her appetite has improved with

> > digestive enzymes. Her energy has increased to the

> > point that she has taken up skateboarding on warm

> > days! Her mood is greatly improved, and she laughs

> > and smiles when she comes for her appointments

> now.

> > She is interested in learning what she can to do

> > help herself heal.

> >

> > Part of her problem is that she has been a

> > vegetarian most of her life, and has not eaten any

> > red meat since age 3. Her muscles are very weak

> and

> > droopy, without shape or vigor. She has an issue

> > about eating anything " that has eyes " . She is

> > thirsty all the time. There are no complaints

> about

> > digestion, defecation, or urination.

> >

> > Her MD's have suggested that she might have

> > Epstein-Barr, or fibromyalgia, or " mono in her

> > bones " .

> >

> > Last spring, she had a rare form of pneumonia

> > caused by Chlamydia in her lungs, which caused her

> > to lose a great deal of weight. She was severely

> > ill for 5 months before coming to see me. She had

> > been gaining 10 pounds per month prior to the

> > pneumonia, with no cause diagnosable by her

> doctors.

> > Her mother claimed she had not increased her food

> > intake.

> >

> > Her tongue is pale pink with a slightly red tip

> > and sides, and a wet, thin, sticky yellow coat.

> > Her pulse is weak and fine on the right, soft and

> > weak on the left, medium depth, at 70 beats per

> > minute.

> >

> > She has dark circles under her eyes.

> >

> > Before having mono, she says her health was great.

> >

> > Her headaches are mostly onthe right

> > temporal-vertex region of her head, and slightly

> on

> > the left side also. They are there all the time,

> > varying only in severity. At their most severe,

> her

> > right eyelid droops and her vision in her right

> eye

> > is impaired.

> >

> > I have diagnosed her with a shao yang disorder,

> > also with spleen qi deficiency generating

> dampness,

> > and kidney qi deficiency. There is also a wei qi

> > deficiency. I'm not sure about the latent pathogen

> > axis. I could benefit from some guidance at this

> > point.

> >

> > I have given her two different herbal formulas -

> > Si Ni San, for the possibility that she did have

> > heat constrained in the interior all this time, as

> > reflected by her hot abdomen, with her cold hands

> > and feet. The coldness in her hands and feet

> > improved only slightly with this formula. I also

> > gave her Tong Qiao Huo Xue Tang for the headache,

> on

> > the basis that any 5-year headache would have

> > stagnant blood as part of its disharmony. The

> > headache did not change with this formula.

> >

> > I am now looking at Xiao Chai Hu Tang, and

> > wondering if there is something I am missing. One

> > of the things I am wondering about is her

> inordinate

> > sense of cold. Could she have a cold pathogen

> > lodged in her head causing the headaches? And what

> > about the possibility that this is somehow due to

> > some damage from anesthesia during her surgery -

> how

> > would we treat that?

> >

> > This young woman has been home-schooled during the

> > last 5 years due to her intolerance of noise,

> light,

> > and crowds. She has missed out on her teen years.

> > I'd like to give her her life back.

> >

> > Oh yeah, a related question - how long should we

> > administer formulae like Si Ni San or Tong Qiao

> Huo

> > Xue Tang or Xiao Chai Hu Tang, before expecting to

> > see results or trying a different approach? In a

> > case like this, would we give a higher dose?

> >

> > Any ideas are most welcome.

> >

> > Thank you,

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > Sponsored Link

> >

> > Mortgage rates as low as 4.625% - $150,000 loan

>

=== message truncated ===

 

 

 

 

______________________________\

____

Sponsored Link

 

Online or Campus degree Associate's, Bachelor's, or Master's

in less than one year.www.findtherightschool.com

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Posted
Posted

Sharon -

 

Thank you for your thoughts. I see your justification for a diagnosis of damp

heat, but that doesn't address her symptoms of extremely cold extremities, which

are more extreme than all her symptoms of heat, plus the exacerbation of all

symptoms in cold weather, but are better with heat so long as it's dry heat and

not humid. Do you have any additional comments for this more complete picture?

 

Andrea Beth

 

sharon weizenbaum <sweiz wrote:

Hi Andrea,

 

Here are my thoughts:

 

I am not sure what you mean by " latent pathogen axis " but I would not

call this Latent. I would call it a lingering pathogen since that is

what it is doing but that lingo doesn't tell us anything except that

it is lingering.

 

I believe the key here is careful diagnosis. This should be done

step by step. First, there is a pathogen and it has to be located

and its nature must be identified. You could think about her

deficiency but that should really wait until she is clear of the

pathogen imho.

 

So,identifying the pathogen: this pathogen is for sure dampheat.

How do we know this? There is for sure dampness - sticky tongue

moss, symptoms worse with damp weather. There is also definitely

heat - red tongue edges, yellow color of sticky tongue moss, hot

belly and sensitivity to light. These together - especially the

yellow sticky tongue, tell us dampheat. In terms of locating the

pathogen, since she doesn't have alternating chills and fever, nor

any other shao yang symptoms, I would not locate it in the Shao Yang

nor use Xiao Chai Hu Tang. So, now, where is the pathogen? The

symptoms tell us. It is in her head and muscles but also

everywhere. It sounds like it has cleared from her spleen with your

treatments and enzymes to some extent.

 

In terms of your diagnosis I don't see Shao Yang, Spleen Qi

deficiency, Kidney Qi deficiency, Wei Qi deficiency or pure damp.

The diagnosis of dampheat in the Spleen, head, muscles and effecting

her shen explains every sign and symptom. She is young and was

strong prior to this invasion so I would strongly avoid tonification

until the true pathogen is cleared.

 

So, how to clear it?

 

Dampheat is tricky - you can't directly dry because it makes the heat

worse. You can't clear the heat because it makes the damp worse.

The method for such all encompassing dampheat is to:

 

1. use aromatic herbs to gently transform damp

2. adjust the Qi mechanism so the Zheng Qi itself can clear the

dampheat (Qi mechanism meaning the up and down movement in the body)

You do this with some bitter fragrant herbs and bland dampheat

draining herbs to go down combined with light fragrant ones to go up.

3. Drain some dampheat out of the urination with bland cooling

draining herbs.

4. clear dampheat from the channels

 

I think Huo Xiang Zheng Qi Tang as a base would be good with the

following additions and subtractions:

 

take out Jie Geng and Bai Zhu

 

Add Hua Shi, Qiang Huo, Fang Ji, Shi Chang Pu

 

I would wonder about blood stasis since this followed surgery but her

tongue is not purple and there are no other signs and symptoms of

this. Pathogens can enter in the surgery. If it is from the

anesthesia, it doesn't matter. I have treated chemical exposures and

lot and if you follow the Chinese diagnostic guidelines, you can

treat it successfully.

 

It will take a couple of weeks for her to feel a lot better but

she'll feel the benefit right away I bet.

 

Hope this helps,

 

Sharon

 

Hi All,

 

I have an 18-year old female patient who has had constant headaches

for the last 5 years. She has seen all the western docs, had all the

tests done, and nothing is conclusive. Her neurologist referred her

for acupuncture.

 

Her history is most interesting. Prior to her headaches, she had a

bout of mononucleosis at age 13, followed by removal of her tonsils.

After the surgery, her headaches started. One of the things I am

wondering, is whether is might be a long-lasting side effect of the

anesthesia?

 

On her first visit, she appeared morose, depressed, lethargic, and

extremely, ghastly pale. She wears sunglasses and a hat indoors,

because light aggravates her headaches. Headaches are also aggravated

by exposure to humid weather and cold, damp weather. Other symptoms

included achy joints in her hands and fingers, knees, and hips, which

also worsened with the same kinds of weather that aggravates the

headaches. Other complaints also included difficulty sleeping -

restless tossing and turning; profound fatigue, and loss of appetite.

In addition, her hands and feet were extremely cold and damp, with

her abdomen feeling burning hot and sweaty on palpation. Note that

she wore gloves and thermal underwear underneath her clothes and

heavy jacket on an 85-degree day. Yes, she complained of feeling cold

all the time.

 

6 acupuncture treatments have not impacted her headache in the

slightest. I have worked to raise yang, release muscle tension in the

neck and shoulders, down-bear liver yang, and tonify qi to no avail.

However, her sleep has improved to the point that she is now sleeping

soundly through the night and does not need to spend her days

languishing exhausted in bed. Her appetite has improved with

digestive enzymes. Her energy has increased to the point that she has

taken up skateboarding on warm days! Her mood is greatly improved,

and she laughs and smiles when she comes for her appointments now.

She is interested in learning what she can to do help herself heal.

 

Part of her problem is that she has been a vegetarian most of her

life, and has not eaten any red meat since age 3. Her muscles are

very weak and droopy, without shape or vigor. She has an issue about

eating anything " that has eyes " . She is thirsty all the time. There

are no complaints about digestion, defecation, or urination.

 

Her MD's have suggested that she might have Epstein-Barr, or

fibromyalgia, or " mono in her bones " .

 

Last spring, she had a rare form of pneumonia caused by Chlamydia in

her lungs, which caused her to lose a great deal of weight. She was

severely ill for 5 months before coming to see me. She had been

gaining 10 pounds per month prior to the pneumonia, with no cause

diagnosable by her doctors. Her mother claimed she had not increased

her food intake.

 

Her tongue is pale pink with a slightly red tip and sides, and a wet,

thin, sticky yellow coat.

Her pulse is weak and fine on the right, soft and weak on the left,

medium depth, at 70 beats per minute.

 

She has dark circles under her eyes.

 

Before having mono, she says her health was great.

 

Her headaches are mostly onthe right temporal-vertex region of her

head, and slightly on the left side also. They are there all the

time, varying only in severity. At their most severe, her right

eyelid droops and her vision in her right eye is impaired.

 

I have diagnosed her with a shao yang disorder, also with spleen qi

deficiency generating dampness, and kidney qi deficiency. There is

also a wei qi deficiency. I'm not sure about the latent pathogen

axis. I could benefit from some guidance at this point.

 

I have given her two different herbal formulas - Si Ni San, for the

possibility that she did have heat constrained in the interior all

this time, as reflected by her hot abdomen, with her cold hands and

feet. The coldness in her hands and feet improved only slightly with

this formula. I also gave her Tong Qiao Huo Xue Tang for the

headache, on the basis that any 5-year headache would have stagnant

blood as part of its disharmony. The headache did not change with

this formula.

 

I am now looking at Xiao Chai Hu Tang, and wondering if there is

something I am missing. One of the things I am wondering about is her

inordinate sense of cold. Could she have a cold pathogen lodged in

her head causing the headaches? And what about the possibility that

this is somehow due to some damage from anesthesia during her surgery

- how would we treat that?

 

This young woman has been home-schooled during the last 5 years due

to her intolerance of noise, light, and crowds. She has missed out on

her teen years. I'd like to give her her life back.

 

Oh yeah, a related question - how long should we administer formulae

like Si Ni San or Tong Qiao Huo Xue Tang or Xiao Chai Hu Tang, before

expecting to see results or trying a different approach? In a case

like this, would we give a higher dose?

 

Any ideas are most welcome.

 

Sharon Weizenbaum

86 Henry Street

Amherst, MA 01002

413-549-4021

sweiz

www.whitepinehealingarts.com

 

 

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Posted
Posted

Thank you, Jahan. I am wondering what you include as sources of " high quality

protein... without eyeballs " ? This has been one of the things she and I have

been wondering about. Bu Zhong Yi Qi Tang is one of the formulas I have

considered for her.

 

 

jahan dadgar <jahandadgar wrote:

hello andrea

you have provided a very interesting case history for an armchair practitioner

such as myself….my

tcm diagnosis of this case....and i just read sharons analysis but i would

counter that i don't

really see DampHeat....what minor heat signs you described can all be explained

by Dampness

causing obstruction...... without actually seeing the patient your description

leads me to a

primarily def condition

 

diagnosis: Spleen/Kidney Yang Qi def leading to Cold Damp/Phlegm obstruction

tx: warm Spleen and Kidney yang to drain damp and clear phlegm obstruction

formula: modified bu zhong yi qi tang

lifestyle modification: modify diet to include moderate amounts of high quality

protein....without

eyeballs

gentle exercise program to invigorate, motivate qi, improve

sleep

 

jahan

 

--- < wrote:

 

> Hi All,

>

> I have an 18-year old female patient who has had constant headaches for the

last 5 years. She

> has seen all the western docs, had all the tests done, and nothing is

conclusive. Her

> neurologist referred her for acupuncture.

>

> Her history is most interesting. Prior to her headaches, she had a bout of

mononucleosis at

> age 13, followed by removal of her tonsils. After the surgery, her headaches

started. One of

> the things I am wondering, is whether is might be a long-lasting side effect

of the anesthesia?

>

> On her first visit, she appeared morose, depressed, lethargic, and extremely,

ghastly pale.

> She wears sunglasses and a hat indoors, because light aggravates her

headaches. Headaches are

> also aggravated by exposure to humid weather and cold, damp weather. Other

symptoms included

> achy joints in her hands and fingers, knees, and hips, which also worsened

with the same kinds

> of weather that aggravates the headaches. Other complaints also included

difficulty sleeping -

> restless tossing and turning; profound fatigue, and loss of appetite. In

addition, her hands

> and feet were extremely cold and damp, with her abdomen feeling burning hot

and sweaty on

> palpation. Note that she wore gloves and thermal underwear underneath her

clothes and heavy

> jacket on an 85-degree day. Yes, she complained of feeling cold all the time.

>

> 6 acupuncture treatments have not impacted her headache in the slightest. I

have worked to

> raise yang, release muscle tension in the neck and shoulders, downbear liver

yang, and tonify qi

> to no avail. However, her sleep has improved to the point that she is now

sleeping soundly

> through the night and does not need to spend her days languishing exhausted in

bed. Her

> appetite has improved with digestive enzymes. Her energy has increased to the

point that she

> has taken up skateboarding on warm days! Her mood is greatly improved, and she

laughs and

> smiles when she comes for her appointments now. She is interested in learning

what she can to

> do help herself heal.

>

> Part of her problem is that she has been a vegetarian most of her life, and

has not eaten any

> red meat since age 3. Her muscles are very weak and droopy, without shape or

vigor. She has

> an issue about eating anything " that has eyes " . She is thirsty all the time.

There are no

> complaints about digestion, defecation, or urination.

>

> Her MD's have suggested that she might have Epstein-Barr, or fibromyalgia, or

" mono in her

> bones " .

>

> Last spring, she had a rare form of pneumonia caused by Chlamydia in her

lungs, which caused

> her to lose a great deal of weight. She was severely ill for 5 months before

coming to see me.

> She had been gaining 10 pounds per month prior to the pneumonia, with no cause

diagnosable by

> her doctors. Her mother claimed she had not increased her food intake.

>

> Her tongue is pale pink with a slightly red tip and sides, and a wet, thin,

sticky yellow

> coat.

> Her pulse is weak and fine on the right, soft and weak on the left, medium

depth, at 70 beats

> per minute.

>

> She has dark circles under her eyes.

>

> Before having mono, she says her health was great.

>

> Her headaches are mostly onthe right temporal-vertex region of her head, and

slightly on the

> left side also. They are there all the time, varying only in severity. At

their most severe,

> her right eyelid droops and her vision in her right eye is impaired.

>

> I have diagnosed her with a shao yang disorder, also with spleen qi deficiency

generating

> dampness, and kidney qi deficiency. There is also a wei qi deficiency. I'm not

sure about the

> latent pathogen axis. I could benefit from some guidance at this point.

>

> I have given her two different herbal formulas - Si Ni San, for the

possibility that she did

> have heat constrained in the interior all this time, as reflected by her hot

abdomen, with her

> cold hands and feet. The coldness in her hands and feet improved only slightly

with this

> formula. I also gave her Tong Qiao Huo Xue Tang for the headache, on the basis

that any 5-year

> headache would have stagnant blood as part of its disharmony. The headache did

not change with

> this formula.

>

> I am now looking at Xiao Chai Hu Tang, and wondering if there is something I

am missing. One

> of the things I am wondering about is her inordinate sense of cold. Could she

have a cold

> pathogen lodged in her head causing the headaches? And what about the

possibility that this is

> somehow due to some damage from anesthesia during her surgery - how would we

treat that?

>

> This young woman has been home-schooled during the last 5 years due to her

intolerance of

> noise, light, and crowds. She has missed out on her teen years. I'd like to

give her her life

> back.

>

> Oh yeah, a related question - how long should we administer formulae like Si

Ni San or Tong

> Qiao Huo Xue Tang or Xiao Chai Hu Tang, before expecting to see results or

trying a different

> approach? In a case like this, would we give a higher dose?

>

> Any ideas are most welcome.

>

> Thank you,

>

>

>

>

>

>

> Sponsored Link

>

> Mortgage rates as low as 4.625% - $150,000 loan for $579 a month. Intro-*Terms

>

>

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Posted
Posted

Thank you for your 2 cents, Cara.

 

The complexity of this patient's case, and my own perplexity with it, is

pretty well mirrored by the diverse array of conflicting and contradicting

responses I am receiving to my plea for help with it. There are cases in which

Chai Hu worsens headache, and some in which it makes it better. In her case,

because she is so terribly stagnant, I would think any kind of movement would

being improvement. So far, of the responses I have received, I am most

encouraged by the ones that address scarring and stagnation as a result of her

tonsillectomy. I'm clear she has many deficiencies, but I'm not sure what would

cause her to gain 10 lbs per month over several months prior to her bout with

pneumonia this year, when all her bloodwork is normal. While I am gaining

results with her sleep, energy, mood, and appetite, the headaches are her chief

complaint. If it's possible that these can be addressed separately from her

underlying consitutional issues, I'd like to do that first

and address her deficiencies later. I think treating local scarring may be

able to meet that end.

 

 

Cara Frank <herbbabe wrote:

Actually, I think Sharon¹s pattern differentiation is correct. But I

question the omission of bai zhu.

also; due to the chronic nature of the disorder, I would add an herb to

move the blood. When there is qi stagnation over a long period of time, as

well as the intractable nature of the disorder, the blood is affected.

thus: herbs such as chuan xiong come to mind. Another thought, a la tian ma

gou teng yin, is to add yi mu cao or niu xi: to conduct blood away from the

head.

 

Also another thought: because of the cold feet and warm abdomen, a

harmonizing strategy may be in order. The formula that comes to mind is ban

xia xie xin tang ( or huang lian tang). BXXXT is a variation of xiao Chai hu

tang, but deals nicely with the faulty qi dynamic of heat and cold

together.

 

That said: I think Chai hu should be avoided. It¹s upward moving nature can

exacerbate headaches.

 

Just my 2 cents

 

Cara O. Frank, R.Ac, Dipl Ac & Ch.H.

President China Herb Company of the Chinese Herb Program

Tai Sophia Institute of the Healing Arts

215-438-2977

Fax 215-849-3338

 

jahan dadgar <jahandadgar

 

Tue, 21 Nov 2006 12:03:59 -0800 (PST)

 

Re: Help for 5 years of daily headaches

 

hello andrea

you have provided a very interesting case history for an armchair

practitioner such as myself….my

tcm diagnosis of this case....and i just read sharons analysis but i would

counter that i don't

really see DampHeat....what minor heat signs you described can all be

explained by Dampness

causing obstruction...... without actually seeing the patient your

description leads me to a

primarily def condition

 

diagnosis: Spleen/Kidney Yang Qi def leading to Cold Damp/Phlegm obstruction

tx: warm Spleen and Kidney yang to drain damp and clear phlegm obstruction

formula: modified bu zhong yi qi tang

lifestyle modification: modify diet to include moderate amounts of high

quality protein....without

eyeballs

gentle exercise program to invigorate, motivate qi, improve

sleep

 

jahan

 

--- < <%40> >

wrote:

 

> Hi All,

>

> I have an 18-year old female patient who has had constant headaches for the

last 5 years. She

> has seen all the western docs, had all the tests done, and nothing is

conclusive. Her

> neurologist referred her for acupuncture.

>

> Her history is most interesting. Prior to her headaches, she had a bout of

mononucleosis at

> age 13, followed by removal of her tonsils. After the surgery, her headaches

started. One of

> the things I am wondering, is whether is might be a long-lasting side effect

of the anesthesia?

>

> On her first visit, she appeared morose, depressed, lethargic, and

extremely, ghastly pale.

> She wears sunglasses and a hat indoors, because light aggravates her

headaches. Headaches are

> also aggravated by exposure to humid weather and cold, damp weather. Other

symptoms included

> achy joints in her hands and fingers, knees, and hips, which also worsened

with the same kinds

> of weather that aggravates the headaches. Other complaints also included

difficulty sleeping -

> restless tossing and turning; profound fatigue, and loss of appetite. In

addition, her hands

> and feet were extremely cold and damp, with her abdomen feeling burning hot

and sweaty on

> palpation. Note that she wore gloves and thermal underwear underneath her

clothes and heavy

> jacket on an 85-degree day. Yes, she complained of feeling cold all the time.

>

> 6 acupuncture treatments have not impacted her headache in the slightest.

I have worked to

> raise yang, release muscle tension in the neck and shoulders, downbear liver

yang, and tonify qi

> to no avail. However, her sleep has improved to the point that she is now

sleeping soundly

> through the night and does not need to spend her days languishing exhausted in

bed. Her

> appetite has improved with digestive enzymes. Her energy has increased to the

point that she

> has taken up skateboarding on warm days! Her mood is greatly improved, and

she laughs and

> smiles when she comes for her appointments now. She is interested in learning

what she can to

> do help herself heal.

>

> Part of her problem is that she has been a vegetarian most of her life, and

has not eaten any

> red meat since age 3. Her muscles are very weak and droopy, without shape or

vigor. She has

> an issue about eating anything " that has eyes " . She is thirsty all the time.

There are no

> complaints about digestion, defecation, or urination.

>

> Her MD's have suggested that she might have Epstein-Barr, or fibromyalgia,

or " mono in her

> bones " .

>

> Last spring, she had a rare form of pneumonia caused by Chlamydia in her

lungs, which caused

> her to lose a great deal of weight. She was severely ill for 5 months before

coming to see me.

> She had been gaining 10 pounds per month prior to the pneumonia, with no cause

diagnosable by

> her doctors. Her mother claimed she had not increased her food intake.

>

> Her tongue is pale pink with a slightly red tip and sides, and a wet, thin,

sticky yellow

> coat.

> Her pulse is weak and fine on the right, soft and weak on the left, medium

depth, at 70 beats

> per minute.

>

> She has dark circles under her eyes.

>

> Before having mono, she says her health was great.

>

> Her headaches are mostly onthe right temporal-vertex region of her head, and

slightly on the

> left side also. They are there all the time, varying only in severity. At

their most severe,

> her right eyelid droops and her vision in her right eye is impaired.

>

> I have diagnosed her with a shao yang disorder, also with spleen qi

deficiency generating

> dampness, and kidney qi deficiency. There is also a wei qi deficiency. I'm

not sure about the

> latent pathogen axis. I could benefit from some guidance at this point.

>

> I have given her two different herbal formulas - Si Ni San, for the

possibility that she did

> have heat constrained in the interior all this time, as reflected by her hot

abdomen, with her

> cold hands and feet. The coldness in her hands and feet improved only

slightly with this

> formula. I also gave her Tong Qiao Huo Xue Tang for the headache, on the

basis that any 5-year

> headache would have stagnant blood as part of its disharmony. The headache

did not change with

> this formula.

>

> I am now looking at Xiao Chai Hu Tang, and wondering if there is something I

am missing. One

> of the things I am wondering about is her inordinate sense of cold. Could she

have a cold

> pathogen lodged in her head causing the headaches? And what about the

possibility that this is

> somehow due to some damage from anesthesia during her surgery - how would we

treat that?

>

> This young woman has been home-schooled during the last 5 years due to her

intolerance of

> noise, light, and crowds. She has missed out on her teen years. I'd like to

give her her life

> back.

>

> Oh yeah, a related question - how long should we administer formulae like Si

Ni San or Tong

> Qiao Huo Xue Tang or Xiao Chai Hu Tang, before expecting to see results or

trying a different

> approach? In a case like this, would we give a higher dose?

>

> Any ideas are most welcome.

>

> Thank you,

>

>

>

>

>

>

> Sponsored Link

>

> Mortgage rates as low as 4.625% - $150,000 loan for $579 a month.

Intro-*Terms

>

>

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Share on other sites
Guest guest

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Posted
Posted

Well- the trick for using Chai hu with headaches is to be sure to also use

bai shao along with it. The weight gain: is she binging?

 

Cara O. Frank, R.Ac, Dipl Ac & Ch.H.

President China Herb Company of the Chinese Herb Program

Tai Sophia Institute of the Healing Arts

215-438-2977

Fax 215-849-3338

 

 

 

 

<

 

Wed, 22 Nov 2006 07:55:17 -0800 (PST)

 

Re: Help for 5 years of daily headaches

 

 

 

 

 

Thank you for your 2 cents, Cara.

 

The complexity of this patient's case, and my own perplexity with it, is

pretty well mirrored by the diverse array of conflicting and contradicting

responses I am receiving to my plea for help with it. There are cases in

which Chai Hu worsens headache, and some in which it makes it better. In

her case, because she is so terribly stagnant, I would think any kind of

movement would being improvement. So far, of the responses I have received,

I am most encouraged by the ones that address scarring and stagnation as a

result of her tonsillectomy. I'm clear she has many deficiencies, but I'm

not sure what would cause her to gain 10 lbs per month over several months

prior to her bout with pneumonia this year, when all her bloodwork is

normal. While I am gaining results with her sleep, energy, mood, and

appetite, the headaches are her chief complaint. If it's possible that

these can be addressed separately from her underlying consitutional issues,

I'd like to do that first

and address her deficiencies later. I think treating local scarring may be

able to meet that end.

 

 

Cara Frank <herbbabe <herbbabe%40verizon.net> > wrote:

Actually, I think Sharon¹s pattern differentiation is correct. But I

question the omission of bai zhu.

also; due to the chronic nature of the disorder, I would add an herb to

move the blood. When there is qi stagnation over a long period of time, as

well as the intractable nature of the disorder, the blood is affected.

thus: herbs such as chuan xiong come to mind. Another thought, a la tian ma

gou teng yin, is to add yi mu cao or niu xi: to conduct blood away from the

head.

 

Also another thought: because of the cold feet and warm abdomen, a

harmonizing strategy may be in order. The formula that comes to mind is ban

xia xie xin tang ( or huang lian tang). BXXXT is a variation of xiao Chai hu

tang, but deals nicely with the faulty qi dynamic of heat and cold

together.

 

That said: I think Chai hu should be avoided. It¹s upward moving nature can

exacerbate headaches.

 

Just my 2 cents

 

Cara O. Frank, R.Ac, Dipl Ac & Ch.H.

President China Herb Company of the Chinese Herb Program

Tai Sophia Institute of the Healing Arts

215-438-2977

Fax 215-849-3338

 

jahan dadgar <jahandadgar <jahandadgar%40> >

<

<%40> >

Tue, 21 Nov 2006 12:03:59 -0800 (PST)

<

<%40> >

Re: Help for 5 years of daily headaches

 

hello andrea

you have provided a very interesting case history for an armchair

practitioner such as myself….my

tcm diagnosis of this case....and i just read sharons analysis but i would

counter that i don't

really see DampHeat....what minor heat signs you described can all be

explained by Dampness

causing obstruction...... without actually seeing the patient your

description leads me to a

primarily def condition

 

diagnosis: Spleen/Kidney Yang Qi def leading to Cold Damp/Phlegm obstruction

tx: warm Spleen and Kidney yang to drain damp and clear phlegm obstruction

formula: modified bu zhong yi qi tang

lifestyle modification: modify diet to include moderate amounts of high

quality protein....without

eyeballs

gentle exercise program to invigorate, motivate qi, improve

sleep

 

jahan

 

--- < <%40>

<%40> >

wrote:

 

> Hi All,

>

> I have an 18-year old female patient who has had constant headaches for the

last 5 years. She

> has seen all the western docs, had all the tests done, and nothing is

conclusive. Her

> neurologist referred her for acupuncture.

>

> Her history is most interesting. Prior to her headaches, she had a bout of

mononucleosis at

> age 13, followed by removal of her tonsils. After the surgery, her headaches

started. One of

> the things I am wondering, is whether is might be a long-lasting side effect

of the anesthesia?

>

> On her first visit, she appeared morose, depressed, lethargic, and

extremely, ghastly pale.

> She wears sunglasses and a hat indoors, because light aggravates her

headaches. Headaches are

> also aggravated by exposure to humid weather and cold, damp weather. Other

symptoms included

> achy joints in her hands and fingers, knees, and hips, which also worsened

with the same kinds

> of weather that aggravates the headaches. Other complaints also included

difficulty sleeping -

> restless tossing and turning; profound fatigue, and loss of appetite. In

addition, her hands

> and feet were extremely cold and damp, with her abdomen feeling burning hot

and sweaty on

> palpation. Note that she wore gloves and thermal underwear underneath her

clothes and heavy

> jacket on an 85-degree day. Yes, she complained of feeling cold all the time.

>

> 6 acupuncture treatments have not impacted her headache in the slightest.

I have worked to

> raise yang, release muscle tension in the neck and shoulders, downbear liver

yang, and tonify qi

> to no avail. However, her sleep has improved to the point that she is now

sleeping soundly

> through the night and does not need to spend her days languishing exhausted in

bed. Her

> appetite has improved with digestive enzymes. Her energy has increased to the

point that she

> has taken up skateboarding on warm days! Her mood is greatly improved, and

she laughs and

> smiles when she comes for her appointments now. She is interested in learning

what she can to

> do help herself heal.

>

> Part of her problem is that she has been a vegetarian most of her life, and

has not eaten any

> red meat since age 3. Her muscles are very weak and droopy, without shape or

vigor. She has

> an issue about eating anything " that has eyes " . She is thirsty all the time.

There are no

> complaints about digestion, defecation, or urination.

>

> Her MD's have suggested that she might have Epstein-Barr, or fibromyalgia,

or " mono in her

> bones " .

>

> Last spring, she had a rare form of pneumonia caused by Chlamydia in her

lungs, which caused

> her to lose a great deal of weight. She was severely ill for 5 months before

coming to see me.

> She had been gaining 10 pounds per month prior to the pneumonia, with no cause

diagnosable by

> her doctors. Her mother claimed she had not increased her food intake.

>

> Her tongue is pale pink with a slightly red tip and sides, and a wet, thin,

sticky yellow

> coat.

> Her pulse is weak and fine on the right, soft and weak on the left, medium

depth, at 70 beats

> per minute.

>

> She has dark circles under her eyes.

>

> Before having mono, she says her health was great.

>

> Her headaches are mostly onthe right temporal-vertex region of her head, and

slightly on the

> left side also. They are there all the time, varying only in severity. At

their most severe,

> her right eyelid droops and her vision in her right eye is impaired.

>

> I have diagnosed her with a shao yang disorder, also with spleen qi

deficiency generating

> dampness, and kidney qi deficiency. There is also a wei qi deficiency. I'm

not sure about the

> latent pathogen axis. I could benefit from some guidance at this point.

>

> I have given her two different herbal formulas - Si Ni San, for the

possibility that she did

> have heat constrained in the interior all this time, as reflected by her hot

abdomen, with her

> cold hands and feet. The coldness in her hands and feet improved only

slightly with this

> formula. I also gave her Tong Qiao Huo Xue Tang for the headache, on the

basis that any 5-year

> headache would have stagnant blood as part of its disharmony. The headache

did not change with

> this formula.

>

> I am now looking at Xiao Chai Hu Tang, and wondering if there is something I

am missing. One

> of the things I am wondering about is her inordinate sense of cold. Could she

have a cold

> pathogen lodged in her head causing the headaches? And what about the

possibility that this is

> somehow due to some damage from anesthesia during her surgery - how would we

treat that?

>

> This young woman has been home-schooled during the last 5 years due to her

intolerance of

> noise, light, and crowds. She has missed out on her teen years. I'd like to

give her her life

> back.

>

> Oh yeah, a related question - how long should we administer formulae like Si

Ni San or Tong

> Qiao Huo Xue Tang or Xiao Chai Hu Tang, before expecting to see results or

trying a different

> approach? In a case like this, would we give a higher dose?

>

> Any ideas are most welcome.

>

> Thank you,

>

>

>

>

>

>

> Sponsored Link

>

> Mortgage rates as low as 4.625% - $150,000 loan for $579 a month.

Intro-*Terms

>

>

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Guest guest

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Posted
Posted

I agree with Cara about the blood stasis. As Wang Qing-ren said in

Correcting the Errors in the Forest of Medicine, " [if there is]

enduring disease, there must be blood stasis. "

 

Bob

 

, Cara Frank <herbbabe

wrote:

>

> Actually, I think Sharon¹s pattern differentiation is correct. But I

> question the omission of bai zhu.

> also; due to the chronic nature of the disorder, I would add an herb to

> move the blood. When there is qi stagnation over a long period of

time, as

> well as the intractable nature of the disorder, the blood is affected.

> thus: herbs such as chuan xiong come to mind. Another thought, a la

tian ma

> gou teng yin, is to add yi mu cao or niu xi: to conduct blood away

from the

> head.

>

> Also another thought: because of the cold feet and warm abdomen, a

> harmonizing strategy may be in order. The formula that comes to mind

is ban

> xia xie xin tang ( or huang lian tang). BXXXT is a variation of xiao

Chai hu

> tang, but deals nicely with the faulty qi dynamic of heat and cold

> together.

>

> That said: I think Chai hu should be avoided. It¹s upward moving

nature can

> exacerbate headaches.

>

> Just my 2 cents

>

> Cara O. Frank, R.Ac, Dipl Ac & Ch.H.

> President China Herb Company

> Director of the Chinese Herb Program

> Tai Sophia Institute of the Healing Arts

> 215-438-2977

> Fax 215-849-3338

>

>

>

>

> jahan dadgar <jahandadgar

>

> Tue, 21 Nov 2006 12:03:59 -0800 (PST)

>

> Re: Help for 5 years of daily headaches

>

>

>

>

>

> hello andrea

> you have provided a very interesting case history for an armchair

> practitioner such as myself….my

> tcm diagnosis of this case....and i just read sharons analysis but i

would

> counter that i don't

> really see DampHeat....what minor heat signs you described can all be

> explained by Dampness

> causing obstruction...... without actually seeing the patient your

> description leads me to a

> primarily def condition

>

> diagnosis: Spleen/Kidney Yang Qi def leading to Cold Damp/Phlegm

obstruction

> tx: warm Spleen and Kidney yang to drain damp and clear phlegm

obstruction

> formula: modified bu zhong yi qi tang

> lifestyle modification: modify diet to include moderate amounts of high

> quality protein....without

> eyeballs

> gentle exercise program to invigorate, motivate qi, improve

> sleep

>

> jahan

>

> --- < <%40> >

> wrote:

>

> > Hi All,

> >

> > I have an 18-year old female patient who has had constant

headaches for the

> last 5 years. She

> > has seen all the western docs, had all the tests done, and nothing is

> conclusive. Her

> > neurologist referred her for acupuncture.

> >

> > Her history is most interesting. Prior to her headaches, she

had a bout of

> mononucleosis at

> > age 13, followed by removal of her tonsils. After the surgery,

her headaches

> started. One of

> > the things I am wondering, is whether is might be a long-lasting

side effect

> of the anesthesia?

> >

> > On her first visit, she appeared morose, depressed, lethargic, and

> extremely, ghastly pale.

> > She wears sunglasses and a hat indoors, because light aggravates her

> headaches. Headaches are

> > also aggravated by exposure to humid weather and cold, damp

weather. Other

> symptoms included

> > achy joints in her hands and fingers, knees, and hips, which also

worsened

> with the same kinds

> > of weather that aggravates the headaches. Other complaints also

included

> difficulty sleeping -

> > restless tossing and turning; profound fatigue, and loss of

appetite. In

> addition, her hands

> > and feet were extremely cold and damp, with her abdomen feeling

burning hot

> and sweaty on

> > palpation. Note that she wore gloves and thermal underwear

underneath her

> clothes and heavy

> > jacket on an 85-degree day. Yes, she complained of feeling cold

all the time.

> >

> > 6 acupuncture treatments have not impacted her headache in the

slightest.

> I have worked to

> > raise yang, release muscle tension in the neck and shoulders,

downbear liver

> yang, and tonify qi

> > to no avail. However, her sleep has improved to the point that

she is now

> sleeping soundly

> > through the night and does not need to spend her days languishing

exhausted in

> bed. Her

> > appetite has improved with digestive enzymes. Her energy has

increased to the

> point that she

> > has taken up skateboarding on warm days! Her mood is greatly

improved, and

> she laughs and

> > smiles when she comes for her appointments now. She is interested

in learning

> what she can to

> > do help herself heal.

> >

> > Part of her problem is that she has been a vegetarian most of

her life, and

> has not eaten any

> > red meat since age 3. Her muscles are very weak and droopy,

without shape or

> vigor. She has

> > an issue about eating anything " that has eyes " . She is thirsty

all the time.

> There are no

> > complaints about digestion, defecation, or urination.

> >

> > Her MD's have suggested that she might have Epstein-Barr, or

fibromyalgia,

> or " mono in her

> > bones " .

> >

> > Last spring, she had a rare form of pneumonia caused by

Chlamydia in her

> lungs, which caused

> > her to lose a great deal of weight. She was severely ill for 5

months before

> coming to see me.

> > She had been gaining 10 pounds per month prior to the pneumonia,

with no cause

> diagnosable by

> > her doctors. Her mother claimed she had not increased her food

intake.

> >

> > Her tongue is pale pink with a slightly red tip and sides, and a

wet, thin,

> sticky yellow

> > coat.

> > Her pulse is weak and fine on the right, soft and weak on the

left, medium

> depth, at 70 beats

> > per minute.

> >

> > She has dark circles under her eyes.

> >

> > Before having mono, she says her health was great.

> >

> > Her headaches are mostly onthe right temporal-vertex region of

her head, and

> slightly on the

> > left side also. They are there all the time, varying only in

severity. At

> their most severe,

> > her right eyelid droops and her vision in her right eye is impaired.

> >

> > I have diagnosed her with a shao yang disorder, also with spleen qi

> deficiency generating

> > dampness, and kidney qi deficiency. There is also a wei qi

deficiency. I'm

> not sure about the

> > latent pathogen axis. I could benefit from some guidance at this

point.

> >

> > I have given her two different herbal formulas - Si Ni San, for the

> possibility that she did

> > have heat constrained in the interior all this time, as reflected

by her hot

> abdomen, with her

> > cold hands and feet. The coldness in her hands and feet improved only

> slightly with this

> > formula. I also gave her Tong Qiao Huo Xue Tang for the headache,

on the

> basis that any 5-year

> > headache would have stagnant blood as part of its disharmony. The

headache

> did not change with

> > this formula.

> >

> > I am now looking at Xiao Chai Hu Tang, and wondering if there is

something I

> am missing. One

> > of the things I am wondering about is her inordinate sense of

cold. Could she

> have a cold

> > pathogen lodged in her head causing the headaches? And what about the

> possibility that this is

> > somehow due to some damage from anesthesia during her surgery -

how would we

> treat that?

> >

> > This young woman has been home-schooled during the last 5 years

due to her

> intolerance of

> > noise, light, and crowds. She has missed out on her teen years.

I'd like to

> give her her life

> > back.

> >

> > Oh yeah, a related question - how long should we administer

formulae like Si

> Ni San or Tong

> > Qiao Huo Xue Tang or Xiao Chai Hu Tang, before expecting to see

results or

> trying a different

> > approach? In a case like this, would we give a higher dose?

> >

> > Any ideas are most welcome.

> >

> > Thank you,

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > Sponsored Link

> >

> > Mortgage rates as low as 4.625% - $150,000 loan for $579 a month.

> Intro-*Terms

> >

> >

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Guest guest

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Posted
Posted

Amen!

 

Master Tung said, " if there is a chronic disease, there must be blood

stasis; if there is a difficult disease, there must be blood stasis; if

there is a strange disease, there must be blood stasis. "

 

I don't know what acupuncture you did, but I might make some suggestions:

 

Bloodlet/prick UB 40 on this patient, and use a cup and get about 10 drops

out. Also do this on St 40.

 

Needle Master Tung points Mu Dou, Mu Liu, and Huo Ying, Huo Zhu.

 

Of course, find out the channel first where the headache resides. Then

needle the appropiate Ying spring and Xi cleft point on that respective

channel.

 

I know this is the traditional chinese herbs, but most TCM based acupuncture is

cookbook, unfortunately.

 

 

 

Robert Chu, L.Ac., QME, PhD

chusauli

 

www.chusaulei.com

 

 

 

 

 

> " Bob Flaws " <pemachophel2001

>

>

>Re: Help for 5 years of daily headaches

>Wed, 22 Nov 2006 16:20:34 -0000

>

>I agree with Cara about the blood stasis. As Wang Qing-ren said in

>Correcting the Errors in the Forest of Medicine, " [if there is]

>enduring disease, there must be blood stasis. "

>

>Bob

>

> , Cara Frank <herbbabe

>wrote:

> >

> > Actually, I think Sharon¹s pattern differentiation is correct. But I

> > question the omission of bai zhu.

> > also; due to the chronic nature of the disorder, I would add an herb to

> > move the blood. When there is qi stagnation over a long period of

>time, as

> > well as the intractable nature of the disorder, the blood is affected.

> > thus: herbs such as chuan xiong come to mind. Another thought, a la

>tian ma

> > gou teng yin, is to add yi mu cao or niu xi: to conduct blood away

>from the

> > head.

> >

> > Also another thought: because of the cold feet and warm abdomen, a

> > harmonizing strategy may be in order. The formula that comes to mind

>is ban

> > xia xie xin tang ( or huang lian tang). BXXXT is a variation of xiao

>Chai hu

> > tang, but deals nicely with the faulty qi dynamic of heat and cold

> > together.

> >

> > That said: I think Chai hu should be avoided. It¹s upward moving

>nature can

> > exacerbate headaches.

> >

> > Just my 2 cents

> >

> > Cara O. Frank, R.Ac, Dipl Ac & Ch.H.

> > President China Herb Company

> > Director of the Chinese Herb Program

> > Tai Sophia Institute of the Healing Arts

> > 215-438-2977

> > Fax 215-849-3338

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > jahan dadgar <jahandadgar

> >

> > Tue, 21 Nov 2006 12:03:59 -0800 (PST)

> >

> > Re: Help for 5 years of daily headaches

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > hello andrea

> > you have provided a very interesting case history for an armchair

> > practitioner such as myself….my

> > tcm diagnosis of this case....and i just read sharons analysis but i

>would

> > counter that i don't

> > really see DampHeat....what minor heat signs you described can all be

> > explained by Dampness

> > causing obstruction...... without actually seeing the patient your

> > description leads me to a

> > primarily def condition

> >

> > diagnosis: Spleen/Kidney Yang Qi def leading to Cold Damp/Phlegm

>obstruction

> > tx: warm Spleen and Kidney yang to drain damp and clear phlegm

>obstruction

> > formula: modified bu zhong yi qi tang

> > lifestyle modification: modify diet to include moderate amounts of high

> > quality protein....without

> > eyeballs

> > gentle exercise program to invigorate, motivate qi, improve

> > sleep

> >

> > jahan

> >

> > --- < <%40> >

> > wrote:

> >

> > > Hi All,

> > >

> > > I have an 18-year old female patient who has had constant

>headaches for the

> > last 5 years. She

> > > has seen all the western docs, had all the tests done, and nothing is

> > conclusive. Her

> > > neurologist referred her for acupuncture.

> > >

> > > Her history is most interesting. Prior to her headaches, she

>had a bout of

> > mononucleosis at

> > > age 13, followed by removal of her tonsils. After the surgery,

>her headaches

> > started. One of

> > > the things I am wondering, is whether is might be a long-lasting

>side effect

> > of the anesthesia?

> > >

> > > On her first visit, she appeared morose, depressed, lethargic, and

> > extremely, ghastly pale.

> > > She wears sunglasses and a hat indoors, because light aggravates her

> > headaches. Headaches are

> > > also aggravated by exposure to humid weather and cold, damp

>weather. Other

> > symptoms included

> > > achy joints in her hands and fingers, knees, and hips, which also

>worsened

> > with the same kinds

> > > of weather that aggravates the headaches. Other complaints also

>included

> > difficulty sleeping -

> > > restless tossing and turning; profound fatigue, and loss of

>appetite. In

> > addition, her hands

> > > and feet were extremely cold and damp, with her abdomen feeling

>burning hot

> > and sweaty on

> > > palpation. Note that she wore gloves and thermal underwear

>underneath her

> > clothes and heavy

> > > jacket on an 85-degree day. Yes, she complained of feeling cold

>all the time.

> > >

> > > 6 acupuncture treatments have not impacted her headache in the

>slightest.

> > I have worked to

> > > raise yang, release muscle tension in the neck and shoulders,

>downbear liver

> > yang, and tonify qi

> > > to no avail. However, her sleep has improved to the point that

>she is now

> > sleeping soundly

> > > through the night and does not need to spend her days languishing

>exhausted in

> > bed. Her

> > > appetite has improved with digestive enzymes. Her energy has

>increased to the

> > point that she

> > > has taken up skateboarding on warm days! Her mood is greatly

>improved, and

> > she laughs and

> > > smiles when she comes for her appointments now. She is interested

>in learning

> > what she can to

> > > do help herself heal.

> > >

> > > Part of her problem is that she has been a vegetarian most of

>her life, and

> > has not eaten any

> > > red meat since age 3. Her muscles are very weak and droopy,

>without shape or

> > vigor. She has

> > > an issue about eating anything " that has eyes " . She is thirsty

>all the time.

> > There are no

> > > complaints about digestion, defecation, or urination.

> > >

> > > Her MD's have suggested that she might have Epstein-Barr, or

>fibromyalgia,

> > or " mono in her

> > > bones " .

> > >

> > > Last spring, she had a rare form of pneumonia caused by

>Chlamydia in her

> > lungs, which caused

> > > her to lose a great deal of weight. She was severely ill for 5

>months before

> > coming to see me.

> > > She had been gaining 10 pounds per month prior to the pneumonia,

>with no cause

> > diagnosable by

> > > her doctors. Her mother claimed she had not increased her food

>intake.

> > >

> > > Her tongue is pale pink with a slightly red tip and sides, and a

>wet, thin,

> > sticky yellow

> > > coat.

> > > Her pulse is weak and fine on the right, soft and weak on the

>left, medium

> > depth, at 70 beats

> > > per minute.

> > >

> > > She has dark circles under her eyes.

> > >

> > > Before having mono, she says her health was great.

> > >

> > > Her headaches are mostly onthe right temporal-vertex region of

>her head, and

> > slightly on the

> > > left side also. They are there all the time, varying only in

>severity. At

> > their most severe,

> > > her right eyelid droops and her vision in her right eye is impaired.

> > >

> > > I have diagnosed her with a shao yang disorder, also with spleen qi

> > deficiency generating

> > > dampness, and kidney qi deficiency. There is also a wei qi

>deficiency. I'm

> > not sure about the

> > > latent pathogen axis. I could benefit from some guidance at this

>point.

> > >

> > > I have given her two different herbal formulas - Si Ni San, for the

> > possibility that she did

> > > have heat constrained in the interior all this time, as reflected

>by her hot

> > abdomen, with her

> > > cold hands and feet. The coldness in her hands and feet improved only

> > slightly with this

> > > formula. I also gave her Tong Qiao Huo Xue Tang for the headache,

>on the

> > basis that any 5-year

> > > headache would have stagnant blood as part of its disharmony. The

>headache

> > did not change with

> > > this formula.

> > >

> > > I am now looking at Xiao Chai Hu Tang, and wondering if there is

>something I

> > am missing. One

> > > of the things I am wondering about is her inordinate sense of

>cold. Could she

> > have a cold

> > > pathogen lodged in her head causing the headaches? And what about the

> > possibility that this is

> > > somehow due to some damage from anesthesia during her surgery -

>how would we

> > treat that?

> > >

> > > This young woman has been home-schooled during the last 5 years

>due to her

> > intolerance of

> > > noise, light, and crowds. She has missed out on her teen years.

>I'd like to

> > give her her life

> > > back.

> > >

> > > Oh yeah, a related question - how long should we administer

>formulae like Si

> > Ni San or Tong

> > > Qiao Huo Xue Tang or Xiao Chai Hu Tang, before expecting to see

>results or

> > trying a different

> > > approach? In a case like this, would we give a higher dose?

> > >

> > > Any ideas are most welcome.

> > >

> > > Thank you,

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Sponsored Link

> > >

> > > Mortgage rates as low as 4.625% - $150,000 loan for $579 a month.

> > Intro-*Terms

> > >

> > >

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Posted
Posted

Sharon -

 

Thank you for your thoughts. I see your justification for a diagnosis

of damp heat, but that doesn't address her symptoms of extremely cold

extremities, which are more extreme than all her symptoms of heat,

plus the exacerbation of all symptoms in cold weather, but are better

with heat so long as it's dry heat and not humid. Do you have any

additional comments for this more complete picture?

 

Andrea Beth

 

 

Hi Andrea,

 

 

As for your question, Huo Xiang Zheng Qi Tang treats dampheat with

damp predominate. Dampheat with damp predominate will make

someone cold and make their symptoms worse in cold weather and it

will depress the heat internally explaining the warm belly and yellow

tongue. And to address Jahans suggestion of warming the Yang, we are

chasing symptoms if we tonify the yang. It is so easy to want to

warm when someone is cold but that would be a mistake here.

Resolving the damp will allow her Yang to become available again.

Obviously with my method of diagnosis, Jahan's suggestion of Bu Zhong

Yi Qi Tang would be contraindicated.

 

To address Jahan's question about the heat aspect. He said that the

minor heat signs can be explained by the dampness. I would say yes,

but that they are still heat signs no matter that the heat came from

the depressed dampness. Guo Huiliu is very clear that this kind of

heat within the damp is dampheat. The tongue coating is key - it is

sticky yellow.

 

In general I want to find the core and definitive diagnosis and use

that to explain the non-definitive signs and symptoms. We know

dampheat definitively and all the signs and symptoms can be explained

by that.

 

I would take out the Bai Zhu because it is a more fixed herb - i.e.

it doesn't help movement. To clear the damp heat the Qi dynamic must

be gently moved. Later it may be appropriate.

 

I would not use Tian Ma Gou Teng Yin. It is for headaches so it

addresses the right symptom, but the disease factor it is for is

Liver Yang/Wind in the head with Kidney deficiency and blood stasis.

That doesn't connect with the diagnosis in this case. When formulas

address all three of Qin Bo Wei's pilars of prescribing, they really

work. 1. Disease Factor 2. Symptom 3. Location

 

 

 

 

Sharon Weizenbaum

86 Henry Street

Amherst, MA 01002

413-549-4021

sweiz

www.whitepinehealingarts.com

 

 

 

 

 

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Posted
Posted

I agree with Cara about the blood stasis. As Wang Qing-ren said in

Correcting the Errors in the Forest of Medicine, " [if there is]

enduring disease, there must be blood stasis. "

 

 

Yes, but just to play the devils advocate, couldn't you find a saying

to justify just about anything in CM?

 

 

Sharon Weizenbaum

86 Henry Street

Amherst, MA 01002

413-549-4021

sweiz

www.whitepinehealingarts.com

 

 

 

 

 

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Posted
Posted

Thank you, Mike. This is most interesting.

 

Andrea Beth

 

mike Bowser <naturaldoc1 wrote:

 

I hope you will check out Kiiko Matsumoto's clinical strategies vol 1 for

similar types of cases. This might be considered an immune reaction, confirmed

by

palpation of the upper cervicals and also lower right abdominal areas. Protocol

would also suggest checking the oketsu reflex, lower left abdominal area

for sensitivity. Working with original trauma is important and often can cause

blood stagnation (oketsu). It would be hard to speculate further w/o actual

palpation of reflex areas and release points as to diagnosis. Please get a copy

of the text. When stagnation occurs for a long time, it creates a decline in

many areas and systems. I would recomment first opening up the channels and then

see where things go from there. Let me know if you have more directed

questions about this method. Best of luck.

 

Mike W. Bowser, L Ac

 

________________________________

> Chinese Traditional Medicine ;

; alumni-sd

>

> Mon, 20 Nov 2006 15:41:35 -0800

> Help for 5 years of daily headaches

>

> Hi All,

> I have an 18-year old female patient who has had constant headaches for the

last 5 years. She has seen all the western docs, had all the tests done, and

nothing is conclusive. Her neurologist referred her for acupuncture.

> Her history is most interesting. Prior to her headaches, she had a bout of

mononucleosis at age 13, followed by removal of her tonsils. After the surgery,

her headaches started. One of the things I am wondering, is whether is might be

a long-lasting side effect of the anesthesia?

> On her first visit, she appeared morose, depressed, lethargic, and extremely,

ghastly pale. She wears sunglasses and a hat indoors, because light aggravates

her headaches. Headaches are also aggravated by exposure to humid weather and

cold, damp weather. Other symptoms included achy joints in her hands and

fingers, knees, and hips, which also worsened with the same kinds of weather

that aggravates the headaches. Other complaints also included difficulty

sleeping - restless tossing and turning; profound fatigue, and loss of appetite.

In addition, her hands and feet were extremely cold and damp, with her abdomen

feeling burning hot and sweaty on palpation. Note that she wore gloves and

thermal underwear underneath her clothes and heavy jacket on an 85-degree day.

Yes, she complained of feeling cold all the time.

> 6 acupuncture treatments have not impacted her headache in the slightest. I

have worked to raise yang, release muscle tension in the neck and shoulders,

downbear liver yang, and tonify qi to no avail. However, her sleep has improved

to the point that she is now sleeping soundly through the night and does not

need to spend her days languishing exhausted in bed. Her appetite has improved

with digestive enzymes. Her energy has increased to the point that she has taken

up skateboarding on warm days! Her mood is greatly improved, and she laughs and

smiles when she comes for her appointments now. She is interested in learning

what she can to do help herself heal.

> Part of her problem is that she has been a vegetarian most of her life, and

has not eaten any red meat since age 3. Her muscles are very weak and droopy,

without shape or vigor. She has an issue about eating anything " that has eyes " .

She is thirsty all the time. There are no complaints about digestion,

defecation, or urination.

> Her MD's have suggested that she might have Epstein-Barr, or fibromyalgia, or

" mono in her bones " .

> Last spring, she had a rare form of pneumonia caused by Chlamydia in her

lungs, which caused her to lose a great deal of weight. She was severely ill for

5 months before coming to see me. She had been gaining 10 pounds per month prior

to the pneumonia, with no cause diagnosable by her doctors. Her mother claimed

she had not increased her food intake.

> Her tongue is pale pink with a slightly red tip and sides, and a wet, thin,

sticky yellow coat.

> Her pulse is weak and fine on the right, soft and weak on the left, medium

depth, at 70 beats per minute.

> She has dark circles under her eyes.

> Before having mono, she says her health was great.

> Her headaches are mostly onthe right temporal-vertex region of her head, and

slightly on the left side also. They are there all the time, varying only in

severity. At their most severe, her right eyelid droops and her vision in her

right eye is impaired.

> I have diagnosed her with a shao yang disorder, also with spleen qi deficiency

generating dampness, and kidney qi deficiency. There is also a wei qi

deficiency. I'm not sure about the latent pathogen axis. I could benefit from

some guidance at this point.

> I have given her two different herbal formulas - Si Ni San, for the

possibility that she did have heat constrained in the interior all this time, as

reflected by her hot abdomen, with her cold hands and feet. The coldness in her

hands and feet improved only slightly with this formula. I also gave her Tong

Qiao Huo Xue Tang for the headache, on the basis that any 5-year headache would

have stagnant blood as part of its disharmony. The headache did not change with

this formula.

> I am now looking at Xiao Chai Hu Tang, and wondering if there is something I

am missing. One of the things I am wondering about is her inordinate sense of

cold. Could she have a cold pathogen lodged in her head causing the headaches?

And what about the possibility that this is somehow due to some damage from

anesthesia during her surgery - how would we treat that?

> This young woman has been home-schooled during the last 5 years due to her

intolerance of noise, light, and crowds. She has missed out on her teen years.

I'd like to give her her life back.

> Oh yeah, a related question - how long should we administer formulae like Si

Ni San or Tong Qiao Huo Xue Tang or Xiao Chai Hu Tang, before expecting to see

results or trying a different approach? In a case like this, would we give a

higher dose?

> Any ideas are most welcome.

> Thank you,

>

>

> Sponsored Link

> Mortgage rates as low as 4.625% - $150,000 loan for $579 a month. Intro-*Terms

>

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Posted
Posted

Wow, Chris! Thank you for this comprehensive information! I had read in Bensky

about headaches too, but you found more there than I did. I'll study this

before I see my patient again.

 

Blessings,

 

Chris Flanagan <pokeyflan wrote:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

@page { size: 21.59cm 27.94cm; margin: 2cm }

P { margin-bottom: 0.21cm }

-->

 

 

Hi

Andrea:

 

 

It's

possible that your patient is suffering from what used to be called

“tou2 feng1” -- Wind in the head Wind. This is a term that isn't

used much in Chinese medicine these days, and references to it in

English-language literature are a little hard to come by. In modern

Chinese, it seems to be used as another name for migraines.

Perhaps my biased view arises from the fact that i'm currently doing some

research into this term/entity called " tou2 feng1 " . What follows is partially

derived from that research:

 

 

 

Dictionaries

(Wiseman & Ye's Practical Dictionary and the Zhong Yi Da

Ci Dian) define “tou2 feng1” as:

 

*

“prolonged and difficult to cure”

 

* The

causative factors are often phlegm fire or wind cold which become

lodged in the body and then cause heat constraint and oppressive

pain.

 

 

*

wind cold can enter the nape and rise “to the ears, eyes, mouth,

nose and above the eyebrow; and can cause many local problems:

numbness in the eye/ear region or mouth, heaviness and dizziness in

the head, stubborn dandruff or dazedness

and lack of taste. Also either deafness or eye pain or

pulling pain above and below the eyebrow or hypersensitive sense of

smell, or one might be very dizzy when merely yawning.

 

 

*

At the time of onset, it is generally ferocious, pain is linked to

the outside edge of the eyebrow, can't open the eyes, dizzy unable to

rise, scalp numbness, This pattern is often from phlegm fire, and

also caused by wind bringing along cold evil and entering the brain

from the fengfu area, because there's constraint then there is

pain ...

 

 

 

 

A

different form is called “shou1 feng1”, which

 

 

*indicates

evil Qi rising and poisoning the head and so there is pattern of

unceasing headache.

 

 

*

if the head wind has sweating at head and face, aversion to cold this

is called shou feng

(head wind).

 

 

*

<>

2nd article: “sudden dizziness, @ the exterior with Yang

Qi & wind-cold contending, there is phlegm fluids @ the

stomach-diaphragm, tendency to head pain, body is restricted and

weary.

 

 

<Bing Yuan Liu Xi Zhu: Tou Tong Yuan Liu>>:

“shou feng is a

disease of Wind damaging the wei,

after washing, then pores are all opened... evil attacks and enters,

then affects the wei, therefore it constitutes shou1 feng1,

its sign is sweating of head region, and there must be aversion to

cold.”

* It

is generally believed that head pain on the left belongs to Wind due

to Blood xu or to Blood xu causing exuberant Fire; head pain on the

right side belongs to phlegm which in turn is part of heat, or to qi

xu which brings along with it phlegm

 

 

Another

symptom is worsening or improvement of symptoms during days of

stronger winds. (Qin Bo-Wei: “one day before it starts to get windy

may be one day of severe pain, or on contrary with one day of

windiness there may be a small cure.”)

 

 

 

 

My theory is that the tonsillectomy surgery itself might be viewed as an

external pathogen.

 

Some

treatment ideas:

 

 

 

 

 

# If

pain is at the left and the right, often due to Shaoyang channel fire

constraint, suitable to use sweet ju hua, dan pi, shan zhi [zi], sang

ye, gou teng to “effuse” it

 

# “Yu

Hu Wan” (Imperial Standard Formulary) treats headaches from

Wind deficiency; it also treats patients suffering from phlegm.

 

bai

zhu 6 grams, remove the stems

 

This

ingredient is powdered finely, and mixed with ginger juice, then

steamed into pills. 20 pills make each dose, to be taken with ginger

tea.

 

#

“Chuan Xiong Cha Tiao San” (Imperial Formulary) treats all

cases of Wind rising and attacking the head and eyes, with dizzy

pain, nasal obstruction and low voice.

 

 

bo he

[120 grams] (remove the stems, and only use leaves)

 

jing

jie spikes, [60 grams]

 

chuan

xiong [60 grams]

 

qiang

huo [3 grams]

 

 

bai

zhi [3 grams]

 

 

zhi

gan cao [3 grams]

 

xi

xin [15 grams]

 

fang

feng [7.5 grams]

 

Finely

powder and mix together the above ingredients. Two qian [6 grams]

makes one dose; take it dissolved into tea after eating.

 

# [Zhu]

Dan Xi remarks that in all cases of treating Head Wind, one can

effectively treat it with “Er Chen Tang” with the

additions of chuan xiong (Radix Ligustici Chuanxiong) and

bai zhi (Radix Angelicae Dahuricae). If it is Taiyang channel

headache, add qiang huo (Rhizoma et Radix Notopterygii); if it

is Shaoyang channel headache, add chai hu (Radix Bupleuri) and

huang qin (Radix Scutellariae Baicalensis); if it is Yangming

channel headache, add shi gao (Gypsum Fibrosum) and bai zhi

(Radix Angelicae Dahuricae). If it is in the Taiyin channel, add

cang zhu (Rhizoma Atractylodis); if in the Shaoyin channel,

add xi xin (Herba cum Radice Asari); and if in the Jueyin

channel, add wu zhu yu (Fructus Evodiae Rutraecarpae).

 

 

#

Lin Pei-Qin: “If pain is more on the left side, it is Wind xu,

suitable to use chuan xiong, dang gui, fang feng, bo he. Pain more

on the right side is phlegm heat, suitable to use cang zhu, ban xia,

huang qin, shi gao.

 

Qi xu

case is exhaustion/taxation/overwork, “bu zhong yi qi tang” plus

chuan xiong, tian ma.

 

Blood

xu is best to be cooled, “si wu tang” plus bo he, bai zhi.

 

Heat

pain case will have aversion to heat, use “Xiao Feng San”

 

Cold

bi cases have the fear of cold, use “Zhui Feng San”

 

if

fever & chills due to longterm constraint, sometimes oppresion

and pain, wants to wear a cotton cloth on the head and has much

phlegm, use “Er Chen Tang” plus wine (washed) huang qin, jing

jie, chuan xiong, bo he, shi gan, xi xin.

 

Wind

and simultaneous heat causes, use “[chuan xiong?] cha tiao san”,

“Ju Hua San”.

 

Cold

which brings along dampness, use “Dao Tan Tang” plus cang zhu,

bai zhi.

 

Pain

which radiates to the teeth, use “Gou Teng San” plus jing jie, bo

he.

 

Pain

pulling sense at the eyebrow bone, use “Xuan Qi/Ji Tang”

 

Runny

nose with foul snivel, use “Chuan Xi San” or “Tou Ding San”

by nasal application to make the snivel exit.

 

If

the posterior brain sinew feels pulling, gou teng, he ye bian,

lian qiao, ku ding cha, sweet ju [hua].

 

If Qi

is rising and attacking causes the pain, use “Quan Xie San.”

 

If

not cured for many years, use wu tou, nan xing powdered and mixed

with scallion juice then smeared on the Taiyang points.

 

If

Wind is the cause, then there is aversion to Wind, “chuan xiong

cha tiao san”

 

Women

who get wind at the Blood level, use “Yang Xue Qu Feng Tang.”

 

If

the cause is GB fire rising counterflow causing dizziness and pain,

the appropriate treatment is to drain the heat, use ling yang jiao,

sheng di, dan pi, sweet ju [hua], ku ding cha, fresh sang ye.

 

If

caused by the Liver Yang taking advantage of the Stomach, there is

vomiting, suitable treatment is to secure/tranquilize the Wind, use

fu shen, sweet ju [hua] tan, gou teng, ban xia qu, bo he, shan shi

[zi].

 

If

the cause is Liver Yin xu, there is Wind moving internally,

appropriately treated by nourishing the fluids, use “Fu Mai Tang”

minus [ren] shen, [sheng?] jiang, gui [zhi?rou?], and add ji zi huang

(egg yolk), bai shao.

 

If

the cause is summerheat rising to cloud the clear orifice/upper

orifices/head, the suitable treatment is to clear and to seep, use

shi gao, he geng, bo he, ling yang jiao, tong cao, yi mi [yi yi ren].

 

 

The

pattern of “brain Wind” is often from phlegm fire, and also

caused by wind bringing along cold evil as it enters the brain from

the fengfu area, because there's constraint then there is

pain, can use “Xiao Feng San” (qiang huo, jing jie,

fang feng, huo xiang, huo po, jiang can, chan yi, ren shen, fu ling,

chen pi, gan cao) mixed with tea and taken. At same time use

“Tou Ding San” (xi xin, gua di, ding xiang, bing pian,

she xiang, glutinous rice) which is taken via the nose.

 

 

Qin

Bo-Wei: Most cases of Head Wind are for years, also are stubborn

cases, Since caused by different causes, treatments are different,

however the commonly used herbs are chuan xiong, bai zhi, qiang

huo, fang feng, xi xin, gao ben, huang qin, jiang can, dan xing, tian

ma, quan xie.

 

 

 

--chris

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Posted
Posted

Hi Eceela,

 

Thank you for your thoughts. Pardon my ignorance, but what is an ETPS device?

Nothing I ever heard of in my TCM schooling... can you please clarify? Where

would I get one and how much do they cost? Is it like a TENS unit?

 

I agree with you about the cranial stuff and its impact on headaches and pain.

I had a strong jaw impact injury in 1978 that resulted in my jaw completely

locking to the point where I had to use my hands to force it open. I had

chiropractic adjustments for a year that got my jaw functioning, but still not

tracking correctly. Since then, I have had episodes of transient, severe pain

that flashes around from tooth to tooth, sometimes for months at a time. It's

come up again recently after an 18-year remission, and I notice that teeth

clenching in my sleep, holding tension on the left side of my jaw, cold weather,

wind, and stress all are contributing factors, with stress the most significant

one - when I completely relax, all pain goes away.

 

Getting back to my patient, however, cranio-sacral work is a good idea. I'll

look for someone to refer her to for this.

 

Blessings,

Andrea Beth

 

 

ecleea <physician wrote:

Hi Andrea:

 

I agree with Majid. The head with all its cranial bones, cervical

bones, cartilage, etc. is a huge three dimensional puzzle.

Surgically removing one of those elements is going to throw

everything off. Certainly taking glands out is going to cause subtle

bone movement.

 

I never realized this until I recently started wearing invisalign

retainers to straighten my teeth. I wear each retainer for two weeks

and then switch to a tighter pair. Well . . . I have experienced

serious tinitus (sounds like standing in front of an aircraft) and

some very painful sinus, temple, occipital headaches. Once my teeth

are moved to the position designated by retainer I am wearing, all

symptoms go away. But, I did find a way to treat myself for those

annoying symptoms of " blockages " caused by subtle bone movements. I

use the ETPS device on negative(-) to disperse the blocked energy.

It works instantly. You can use directly on the cranial points,

temple points, or anywhere along the channels involved. Definitely

want to use negative, though, to disperse. I am not sure a regular

electro-stim unit with electrodes attached to needles would work.

Needs to be " direct " current.

 

Also, if you know cranial-sacral manipulation, try that on your

patient.

 

Eceela, AP, Florida

 

Hi All,

>

> I have an 18-year old female patient who has had constant

headaches for the last 5 years. She has seen all the western docs,

had all the tests done, and nothing is conclusive. Her neurologist

referred her for acupuncture.

>

> Her history is most interesting. Prior to her headaches, she

had a bout of mononucleosis at age 13, followed by removal of her

tonsils. After the surgery, her headaches started. One of the

things I am wondering, is whether is might be a long-lasting side

effect of the anesthesia?

>

> On her first visit, she appeared morose, depressed, lethargic,

and extremely, ghastly pale. She wears sunglasses and a hat

indoors, because light aggravates her headaches. Headaches are also

aggravated by exposure to humid weather and cold, damp weather.

Other symptoms included achy joints in her hands and fingers, knees,

and hips, which also worsened with the same kinds of weather that

aggravates the headaches. Other complaints also included difficulty

sleeping - restless tossing and turning; profound fatigue, and loss

of appetite. In addition, her hands and feet were extremely cold

and damp, with her abdomen feeling burning hot and sweaty on

palpation. Note that she wore gloves and thermal underwear

underneath her clothes and heavy jacket on an 85-degree day. Yes,

she complained of feeling cold all the time.

>

> 6 acupuncture treatments have not impacted her headache in the

slightest. I have worked to raise yang, release muscle tension in

the neck and shoulders, downbear liver yang, and tonify qi to no

avail. However, her sleep has improved to the point that she is now

sleeping soundly through the night and does not need to spend her

days languishing exhausted in bed. Her appetite has improved with

digestive enzymes. Her energy has increased to the point that she

has taken up skateboarding on warm days! Her mood is greatly

improved, and she laughs and smiles when she comes for her

appointments now. She is interested in learning what she can to do

help herself heal.

>

> Part of her problem is that she has been a vegetarian most of

her life, and has not eaten any red meat since age 3. Her muscles

are very weak and droopy, without shape or vigor. She has an issue

about eating anything " that has eyes " . She is thirsty all the

time. There are no complaints about digestion, defecation, or

urination.

>

> Her MD's have suggested that she might have Epstein-Barr, or

fibromyalgia, or " mono in her bones " .

>

> Last spring, she had a rare form of pneumonia caused by

Chlamydia in her lungs, which caused her to lose a great deal of

weight. She was severely ill for 5 months before coming to see me.

She had been gaining 10 pounds per month prior to the pneumonia,

with no cause diagnosable by her doctors. Her mother claimed she

had not increased her food intake.

>

> Her tongue is pale pink with a slightly red tip and sides, and a

wet, thin, sticky yellow coat.

> Her pulse is weak and fine on the right, soft and weak on the

left, medium depth, at 70 beats per minute.

>

> She has dark circles under her eyes.

>

> Before having mono, she says her health was great.

>

> Her headaches are mostly onthe right temporal-vertex region of

her head, and slightly on the left side also. They are there all

the time, varying only in severity. At their most severe, her right

eyelid droops and her vision in her right eye is impaired.

>

> I have diagnosed her with a shao yang disorder, also with spleen

qi deficiency generating dampness, and kidney qi deficiency. There

is also a wei qi deficiency. I'm not sure about the latent pathogen

axis. I could benefit from some guidance at this point.

>

> I have given her two different herbal formulas - Si Ni San, for

the possibility that she did have heat constrained in the interior

all this time, as reflected by her hot abdomen, with her cold hands

and feet. The coldness in her hands and feet improved only slightly

with this formula. I also gave her Tong Qiao Huo Xue Tang for the

headache, on the basis that any 5-year headache would have stagnant

blood as part of its disharmony. The headache did not change with

this formula.

>

> I am now looking at Xiao Chai Hu Tang, and wondering if there is

something I am missing. One of the things I am wondering about is

her inordinate sense of cold. Could she have a cold pathogen lodged

in her head causing the headaches? And what about the possibility

that this is somehow due to some damage from anesthesia during her

surgery - how would we treat that?

>

> This young woman has been home-schooled during the last 5 years

due to her intolerance of noise, light, and crowds. She has missed

out on her teen years. I'd like to give her her life back.

>

> Oh yeah, a related question - how long should we administer

formulae like Si Ni San or Tong Qiao Huo Xue Tang or Xiao Chai Hu

Tang, before expecting to see results or trying a different

approach? In a case like this, would we give a higher dose?

>

> Any ideas are most welcome.

>

> Thank you,

>

>

>

>

>

>

> Sponsored Link

>

> Mortgage rates as low as 4.625% - $150,000 loan for $579 a

month. Intro-*Terms

>

>

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Posted
Posted

Hi Andrea,

Because of the deep illnesses (mono, chlamydia/pneumonia) and

deficiency signs, I'd look into Bu Zhong Yi Qi Tang. Though one

usually thinks " Why would I want to raise Qi with a headache? " ,

bringing clear Yang/Qi up to the head can sometimes stop headaches.

Also, the deep seated illnesses may have injured her Yuan Qi which

hasn't been replenished yet, which Bu Zhong can address.

 

I'm only piping in because I've treated a similar patient with Bu

Zhong and it was the only formula that actually stopped the headaches

for good. He had the " worst flu of his life " followed by months of

antibiotics and then daily headaches for 3 years. He saw many

practitioners who sedated yang, cleared damp heat, moved liver qi,

and cleared the Shao Yang but the only thing that helped, and

eventually cured him was Bu Zhong Yi Qi Tang.

 

Just my 2 qian!

 

Danny Johnson L.Ac.

www.santacruzacupuncture.com

 

 

 

On Nov 20, 2006, at 3:41 PM, wrote:

 

> Hi All,

>

> I have an 18-year old female patient who has had constant

> headaches for the last 5 years. She has seen all the western docs,

> had all the tests done, and nothing is conclusive. Her neurologist

> referred her for acupuncture.

>

> Her history is most interesting. Prior to her headaches, she had

> a bout of mononucleosis at age 13, followed by removal of her

> tonsils. After the surgery, her headaches started. One of the

> things I am wondering, is whether is might be a long-lasting side

> effect of the anesthesia?

>

> On her first visit, she appeared morose, depressed, lethargic,

> and extremely, ghastly pale. She wears sunglasses and a hat

> indoors, because light aggravates her headaches. Headaches are

> also aggravated by exposure to humid weather and cold, damp

> weather. Other symptoms included achy joints in her hands and

> fingers, knees, and hips, which also worsened with the same kinds

> of weather that aggravates the headaches. Other complaints also

> included difficulty sleeping - restless tossing and turning;

> profound fatigue, and loss of appetite. In addition, her hands and

> feet were extremely cold and damp, with her abdomen feeling burning

> hot and sweaty on palpation. Note that she wore gloves and thermal

> underwear underneath her clothes and heavy jacket on an 85-degree

> day. Yes, she complained of feeling cold all the time.

>

> 6 acupuncture treatments have not impacted her headache in the

> slightest. I have worked to raise yang, release muscle tension in

> the neck and shoulders, downbear liver yang, and tonify qi to no

> avail. However, her sleep has improved to the point that she is

> now sleeping soundly through the night and does not need to spend

> her days languishing exhausted in bed. Her appetite has improved

> with digestive enzymes. Her energy has increased to the point that

> she has taken up skateboarding on warm days! Her mood is greatly

> improved, and she laughs and smiles when she comes for her

> appointments now. She is interested in learning what she can to do

> help herself heal.

>

> Part of her problem is that she has been a vegetarian most of her

> life, and has not eaten any red meat since age 3. Her muscles are

> very weak and droopy, without shape or vigor. She has an issue

> about eating anything " that has eyes " . She is thirsty all the

> time. There are no complaints about digestion, defecation, or

> urination.

>

> Her MD's have suggested that she might have Epstein-Barr, or

> fibromyalgia, or " mono in her bones " .

>

> Last spring, she had a rare form of pneumonia caused by Chlamydia

> in her lungs, which caused her to lose a great deal of weight. She

> was severely ill for 5 months before coming to see me. She had

> been gaining 10 pounds per month prior to the pneumonia, with no

> cause diagnosable by her doctors. Her mother claimed she had not

> increased her food intake.

>

> Her tongue is pale pink with a slightly red tip and sides, and a

> wet, thin, sticky yellow coat.

> Her pulse is weak and fine on the right, soft and weak on the

> left, medium depth, at 70 beats per minute.

>

> She has dark circles under her eyes.

>

> Before having mono, she says her health was great.

>

> Her headaches are mostly onthe right temporal-vertex region of

> her head, and slightly on the left side also. They are there all

> the time, varying only in severity. At their most severe, her

> right eyelid droops and her vision in her right eye is impaired.

>

> I have diagnosed her with a shao yang disorder, also with spleen

> qi deficiency generating dampness, and kidney qi deficiency. There

> is also a wei qi deficiency. I'm not sure about the latent

> pathogen axis. I could benefit from some guidance at this point.

>

> I have given her two different herbal formulas - Si Ni San, for

> the possibility that she did have heat constrained in the interior

> all this time, as reflected by her hot abdomen, with her cold hands

> and feet. The coldness in her hands and feet improved only

> slightly with this formula. I also gave her Tong Qiao Huo Xue Tang

> for the headache, on the basis that any 5-year headache would have

> stagnant blood as part of its disharmony. The headache did not

> change with this formula.

>

> I am now looking at Xiao Chai Hu Tang, and wondering if there is

> something I am missing. One of the things I am wondering about is

> her inordinate sense of cold. Could she have a cold pathogen

> lodged in her head causing the headaches? And what about the

> possibility that this is somehow due to some damage from anesthesia

> during her surgery - how would we treat that?

>

> This young woman has been home-schooled during the last 5 years

> due to her intolerance of noise, light, and crowds. She has missed

> out on her teen years. I'd like to give her her life back.

>

> Oh yeah, a related question - how long should we administer

> formulae like Si Ni San or Tong Qiao Huo Xue Tang or Xiao Chai Hu

> Tang, before expecting to see results or trying a different

> approach? In a case like this, would we give a higher dose?

>

> Any ideas are most welcome.

>

> Thank you,

>

>

>

>

>

>

> Sponsored Link

>

> Mortgage rates as low as 4.625% - $150,000 loan for $579 a

> month. Intro-*Terms

>

>

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Posted
Posted

Hi Cara,

 

Bai Shao makes sense, of course. According to her mom, the weight gain

occurred for 5-6 months at 10 pounds per month early this year, without any

changes in her eating patterns. Most of that weight dropped off when she had

her long bout with pneumonia starting in May.

 

Thanks again,

Andrea Beth

 

Cara Frank <herbbabe wrote:

Well- the trick for using Chai hu with headaches is to be sure to also

use

bai shao along with it. The weight gain: is she binging?

 

Cara O. Frank, R.Ac, Dipl Ac & Ch.H.

President China Herb Company of the Chinese Herb Program

Tai Sophia Institute of the Healing Arts

215-438-2977

Fax 215-849-3338

 

<

 

Wed, 22 Nov 2006 07:55:17 -0800 (PST)

 

Re: Help for 5 years of daily headaches

 

Thank you for your 2 cents, Cara.

 

The complexity of this patient's case, and my own perplexity with it, is

pretty well mirrored by the diverse array of conflicting and contradicting

responses I am receiving to my plea for help with it. There are cases in

which Chai Hu worsens headache, and some in which it makes it better. In

her case, because she is so terribly stagnant, I would think any kind of

movement would being improvement. So far, of the responses I have received,

I am most encouraged by the ones that address scarring and stagnation as a

result of her tonsillectomy. I'm clear she has many deficiencies, but I'm

not sure what would cause her to gain 10 lbs per month over several months

prior to her bout with pneumonia this year, when all her bloodwork is

normal. While I am gaining results with her sleep, energy, mood, and

appetite, the headaches are her chief complaint. If it's possible that

these can be addressed separately from her underlying consitutional issues,

I'd like to do that first

and address her deficiencies later. I think treating local scarring may be

able to meet that end.

 

 

 

Cara Frank <herbbabe <herbbabe%40verizon.net> > wrote:

Actually, I think Sharon¹s pattern differentiation is correct. But I

question the omission of bai zhu.

also; due to the chronic nature of the disorder, I would add an herb to

move the blood. When there is qi stagnation over a long period of time, as

well as the intractable nature of the disorder, the blood is affected.

thus: herbs such as chuan xiong come to mind. Another thought, a la tian ma

gou teng yin, is to add yi mu cao or niu xi: to conduct blood away from the

head.

 

Also another thought: because of the cold feet and warm abdomen, a

harmonizing strategy may be in order. The formula that comes to mind is ban

xia xie xin tang ( or huang lian tang). BXXXT is a variation of xiao Chai hu

tang, but deals nicely with the faulty qi dynamic of heat and cold

together.

 

That said: I think Chai hu should be avoided. It¹s upward moving nature can

exacerbate headaches.

 

Just my 2 cents

 

Cara O. Frank, R.Ac, Dipl Ac & Ch.H.

President China Herb Company of the Chinese Herb Program

Tai Sophia Institute of the Healing Arts

215-438-2977

Fax 215-849-3338

 

jahan dadgar <jahandadgar <jahandadgar%40> >

<

<%40> >

Tue, 21 Nov 2006 12:03:59 -0800 (PST)

<

<%40> >

Re: Help for 5 years of daily headaches

 

hello andrea

you have provided a very interesting case history for an armchair

practitioner such as myself….my

tcm diagnosis of this case....and i just read sharons analysis but i would

counter that i don't

really see DampHeat....what minor heat signs you described can all be

explained by Dampness

causing obstruction...... without actually seeing the patient your

description leads me to a

primarily def condition

 

diagnosis: Spleen/Kidney Yang Qi def leading to Cold Damp/Phlegm obstruction

tx: warm Spleen and Kidney yang to drain damp and clear phlegm obstruction

formula: modified bu zhong yi qi tang

lifestyle modification: modify diet to include moderate amounts of high

quality protein....without

eyeballs

gentle exercise program to invigorate, motivate qi, improve

sleep

 

jahan

 

--- < <%40>

<%40> >

wrote:

 

> Hi All,

>

> I have an 18-year old female patient who has had constant headaches for the

last 5 years. She

> has seen all the western docs, had all the tests done, and nothing is

conclusive. Her

> neurologist referred her for acupuncture.

>

> Her history is most interesting. Prior to her headaches, she had a bout of

mononucleosis at

> age 13, followed by removal of her tonsils. After the surgery, her headaches

started. One of

> the things I am wondering, is whether is might be a long-lasting side effect

of the anesthesia?

>

> On her first visit, she appeared morose, depressed, lethargic, and

extremely, ghastly pale.

> She wears sunglasses and a hat indoors, because light aggravates her

headaches. Headaches are

> also aggravated by exposure to humid weather and cold, damp weather. Other

symptoms included

> achy joints in her hands and fingers, knees, and hips, which also worsened

with the same kinds

> of weather that aggravates the headaches. Other complaints also included

difficulty sleeping -

> restless tossing and turning; profound fatigue, and loss of appetite. In

addition, her hands

> and feet were extremely cold and damp, with her abdomen feeling burning hot

and sweaty on

> palpation. Note that she wore gloves and thermal underwear underneath her

clothes and heavy

> jacket on an 85-degree day. Yes, she complained of feeling cold all the time.

>

> 6 acupuncture treatments have not impacted her headache in the slightest.

I have worked to

> raise yang, release muscle tension in the neck and shoulders, downbear liver

yang, and tonify qi

> to no avail. However, her sleep has improved to the point that she is now

sleeping soundly

> through the night and does not need to spend her days languishing exhausted in

bed. Her

> appetite has improved with digestive enzymes. Her energy has increased to the

point that she

> has taken up skateboarding on warm days! Her mood is greatly improved, and

she laughs and

> smiles when she comes for her appointments now. She is interested in learning

what she can to

> do help herself heal.

>

> Part of her problem is that she has been a vegetarian most of her life, and

has not eaten any

> red meat since age 3. Her muscles are very weak and droopy, without shape or

vigor. She has

> an issue about eating anything " that has eyes " . She is thirsty all the time.

There are no

> complaints about digestion, defecation, or urination.

>

> Her MD's have suggested that she might have Epstein-Barr, or fibromyalgia,

or " mono in her

> bones " .

>

> Last spring, she had a rare form of pneumonia caused by Chlamydia in her

lungs, which caused

> her to lose a great deal of weight. She was severely ill for 5 months before

coming to see me.

> She had been gaining 10 pounds per month prior to the pneumonia, with no cause

diagnosable by

> her doctors. Her mother claimed she had not increased her food intake.

>

> Her tongue is pale pink with a slightly red tip and sides, and a wet, thin,

sticky yellow

> coat.

> Her pulse is weak and fine on the right, soft and weak on the left, medium

depth, at 70 beats

> per minute.

>

> She has dark circles under her eyes.

>

> Before having mono, she says her health was great.

>

> Her headaches are mostly onthe right temporal-vertex region of her head, and

slightly on the

> left side also. They are there all the time, varying only in severity. At

their most severe,

> her right eyelid droops and her vision in her right eye is impaired.

>

> I have diagnosed her with a shao yang disorder, also with spleen qi

deficiency generating

> dampness, and kidney qi deficiency. There is also a wei qi deficiency. I'm

not sure about the

> latent pathogen axis. I could benefit from some guidance at this point.

>

> I have given her two different herbal formulas - Si Ni San, for the

possibility that she did

> have heat constrained in the interior all this time, as reflected by her hot

abdomen, with her

> cold hands and feet. The coldness in her hands and feet improved only

slightly with this

> formula. I also gave her Tong Qiao Huo Xue Tang for the headache, on the

basis that any 5-year

> headache would have stagnant blood as part of its disharmony. The headache

did not change with

> this formula.

>

> I am now looking at Xiao Chai Hu Tang, and wondering if there is something I

am missing. One

> of the things I am wondering about is her inordinate sense of cold. Could she

have a cold

> pathogen lodged in her head causing the headaches? And what about the

possibility that this is

> somehow due to some damage from anesthesia during her surgery - how would we

treat that?

>

> This young woman has been home-schooled during the last 5 years due to her

intolerance of

> noise, light, and crowds. She has missed out on her teen years. I'd like to

give her her life

> back.

>

> Oh yeah, a related question - how long should we administer formulae like Si

Ni San or Tong

> Qiao Huo Xue Tang or Xiao Chai Hu Tang, before expecting to see results or

trying a different

> approach? In a case like this, would we give a higher dose?

>

> Any ideas are most welcome.

>

> Thank you,

>

>

>

>

>

>

> Sponsored Link

>

> Mortgage rates as low as 4.625% - $150,000 loan for $579 a month.

Intro-*Terms

>

>

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Posted
Posted

Hi Robert,

 

Thank you for your input. I'm not familiar with Master Tung's points - where

are the ones you mentioned? And is there a special technique recommended for

needling them?

 

Andrea Beth

 

Robert Chu <chusauli wrote:

Amen!

 

Master Tung said, " if there is a chronic disease, there must be blood

stasis; if there is a difficult disease, there must be blood stasis; if

there is a strange disease, there must be blood stasis. "

 

I don't know what acupuncture you did, but I might make some suggestions:

 

Bloodlet/prick UB 40 on this patient, and use a cup and get about 10 drops

out. Also do this on St 40.

 

Needle Master Tung points Mu Dou, Mu Liu, and Huo Ying, Huo Zhu.

 

Of course, find out the channel first where the headache resides. Then

needle the appropiate Ying spring and Xi cleft point on that respective

channel.

 

I know this is the traditional chinese herbs, but most TCM based acupuncture is

cookbook, unfortunately.

 

 

 

Robert Chu, L.Ac., QME, PhD

chusauli

 

www.chusaulei.com

 

 

 

 

 

> " Bob Flaws "

 

>

>

>Re: Help for 5 years of daily headaches

>Wed, 22 Nov 2006 16:20:34 -0000

>

>I agree with Cara about the blood stasis. As Wang Qing-ren said in

>Correcting the Errors in the Forest of Medicine, " [if there is]

>enduring disease, there must be blood stasis. "

>

>Bob

>

> , Cara Frank

>wrote:

> >

> > Actually, I think Sharon¹s pattern differentiation is correct. But I

> > question the omission of bai zhu.

> > also; due to the chronic nature of the disorder, I would add an herb to

> > move the blood. When there is qi stagnation over a long period of

>time, as

> > well as the intractable nature of the disorder, the blood is affected.

> > thus: herbs such as chuan xiong come to mind. Another thought, a la

>tian ma

> > gou teng yin, is to add yi mu cao or niu xi: to conduct blood away

>from the

> > head.

> >

> > Also another thought: because of the cold feet and warm abdomen, a

> > harmonizing strategy may be in order. The formula that comes to mind

>is ban

> > xia xie xin tang ( or huang lian tang). BXXXT is a variation of xiao

>Chai hu

> > tang, but deals nicely with the faulty qi dynamic of heat and cold

> > together.

> >

> > That said: I think Chai hu should be avoided. It¹s upward moving

>nature can

> > exacerbate headaches.

> >

> > Just my 2 cents

> >

> > Cara O. Frank, R.Ac, Dipl Ac & Ch.H.

> > President China Herb Company

> > Director of the Chinese Herb Program

> > Tai Sophia Institute of the Healing Arts

> > 215-438-2977

> > Fax 215-849-3338

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > jahan dadgar

> >

> > Tue, 21 Nov 2006 12:03:59 -0800 (PST)

> > To:

> > Re: Help for 5 years of daily headaches

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > hello andrea

> > you have provided a very interesting case history for an armchair

> > practitioner such as myself….my

> > tcm diagnosis of this case....and i just read sharons analysis but i

>would

> > counter that i don't

> > really see DampHeat....what minor heat signs you described can all be

> > explained by Dampness

> > causing obstruction...... without actually seeing the patient your

> > description leads me to a

> > primarily def condition

> >

> > diagnosis: Spleen/Kidney Yang Qi def leading to Cold Damp/Phlegm

>obstruction

> > tx: warm Spleen and Kidney yang to drain damp and clear phlegm

>obstruction

> > formula: modified bu zhong yi qi tang

> > lifestyle modification: modify diet to include moderate amounts of high

> > quality protein....without

> > eyeballs

> > gentle exercise program to invigorate, motivate qi, improve

> > sleep

> >

> > jahan

> >

> > --- >

> > wrote:

> >

> > > Hi All,

> > >

> > > I have an 18-year old female patient who has had constant

>headaches for the

> > last 5 years. She

> > > has seen all the western docs, had all the tests done, and nothing is

> > conclusive. Her

> > > neurologist referred her for acupuncture.

> > >

> > > Her history is most interesting. Prior to her headaches, she

>had a bout of

> > mononucleosis at

> > > age 13, followed by removal of her tonsils. After the surgery,

>her headaches

> > started. One of

> > > the things I am wondering, is whether is might be a long-lasting

>side effect

> > of the anesthesia?

> > >

> > > On her first visit, she appeared morose, depressed, lethargic, and

> > extremely, ghastly pale.

> > > She wears sunglasses and a hat indoors, because light aggravates her

> > headaches. Headaches are

> > > also aggravated by exposure to humid weather and cold, damp

>weather. Other

> > symptoms included

> > > achy joints in her hands and fingers, knees, and hips, which also

>worsened

> > with the same kinds

> > > of weather that aggravates the headaches. Other complaints also

>included

> > difficulty sleeping -

> > > restless tossing and turning; profound fatigue, and loss of

>appetite. In

> > addition, her hands

> > > and feet were extremely cold and damp, with her abdomen feeling

>burning hot

> > and sweaty on

> > > palpation. Note that she wore gloves and thermal underwear

>underneath her

> > clothes and heavy

> > > jacket on an 85-degree day. Yes, she complained of feeling cold

>all the time.

> > >

> > > 6 acupuncture treatments have not impacted her headache in the

>slightest.

> > I have worked to

> > > raise yang, release muscle tension in the neck and shoulders,

>downbear liver

> > yang, and tonify qi

> > > to no avail. However, her sleep has improved to the point that

>she is now

> > sleeping soundly

> > > through the night and does not need to spend her days languishing

>exhausted in

> > bed. Her

> > > appetite has improved with digestive enzymes. Her energy has

>increased to the

> > point that she

> > > has taken up skateboarding on warm days! Her mood is greatly

>improved, and

> > she laughs and

> > > smiles when she comes for her appointments now. She is interested

>in learning

> > what she can to

> > > do help herself heal.

> > >

> > > Part of her problem is that she has been a vegetarian most of

>her life, and

> > has not eaten any

> > > red meat since age 3. Her muscles are very weak and droopy,

>without shape or

> > vigor. She has

> > > an issue about eating anything " that has eyes " . She is thirsty

>all the time.

> > There are no

> > > complaints about digestion, defecation, or urination.

> > >

> > > Her MD's have suggested that she might have Epstein-Barr, or

>fibromyalgia,

> > or " mono in her

> > > bones " .

> > >

> > > Last spring, she had a rare form of pneumonia caused by

>Chlamydia in her

> > lungs, which caused

> > > her to lose a great deal of weight. She was severely ill for 5

>months before

> > coming to see me.

> > > She had been gaining 10 pounds per month prior to the pneumonia,

>with no cause

> > diagnosable by

> > > her doctors. Her mother claimed she had not increased her food

>intake.

> > >

> > > Her tongue is pale pink with a slightly red tip and sides, and a

>wet, thin,

> > sticky yellow

> > > coat.

> > > Her pulse is weak and fine on the right, soft and weak on the

>left, medium

> > depth, at 70 beats

> > > per minute.

> > >

> > > She has dark circles under her eyes.

> > >

> > > Before having mono, she says her health was great.

> > >

> > > Her headaches are mostly onthe right temporal-vertex region of

>her head, and

> > slightly on the

> > > left side also. They are there all the time, varying only in

>severity. At

> > their most severe,

> > > her right eyelid droops and her vision in her right eye is impaired.

> > >

> > > I have diagnosed her with a shao yang disorder, also with spleen qi

> > deficiency generating

> > > dampness, and kidney qi deficiency. There is also a wei qi

>deficiency. I'm

> > not sure about the

> > > latent pathogen axis. I could benefit from some guidance at this

>point.

> > >

> > > I have given her two different herbal formulas - Si Ni San, for the

> > possibility that she did

> > > have heat constrained in the interior all this time, as reflected

>by her hot

> > abdomen, with her

> > > cold hands and feet. The coldness in her hands and feet improved only

> > slightly with this

> > > formula. I also gave her Tong Qiao Huo Xue Tang for the headache,

>on the

> > basis that any 5-year

> > > headache would have stagnant blood as part of its disharmony. The

>headache

> > did not change with

> > > this formula.

> > >

> > > I am now looking at Xiao Chai Hu Tang, and wondering if there is

>something I

> > am missing. One

> > > of the things I am wondering about is her inordinate sense of

>cold. Could she

> > have a cold

> > > pathogen lodged in her head causing the headaches? And what about the

> > possibility that this is

> > > somehow due to some damage from anesthesia during her surgery -

>how would we

> > treat that?

> > >

> > > This young woman has been home-schooled during the last 5 years

>due to her

> > intolerance of

> > > noise, light, and crowds. She has missed out on her teen years.

>I'd like to

> > give her her life

> > > back.

> > >

> > > Oh yeah, a related question - how long should we administer

>formulae like Si

> > Ni San or Tong

> > > Qiao Huo Xue Tang or Xiao Chai Hu Tang, before expecting to see

>results or

> > trying a different

> > > approach? In a case like this, would we give a higher dose?

> > >

> > > Any ideas are most welcome.

> > >

> > > Thank you,

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Sponsored Link

> > >

> > > Mortgage rates as low as 4.625% - $150,000 loan for $579 a month.

> > Intro-*Terms

> > >

> > >

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Posted
Posted

Thank you, Sharon. You explanation makes your thinking more clear for me. She

is definitely more damp than hot, in fact her only symptoms of heat are thirst

and photophobia. While her abdomen is hot to the touch, it doesn't feel warm to

her. The tongue registers heat, but the pulse does not.

 

Thanks again,

Andrea Beth

 

sharon weizenbaum <sweiz wrote:

Sharon -

 

Thank you for your thoughts. I see your justification for a diagnosis

of damp heat, but that doesn't address her symptoms of extremely cold

extremities, which are more extreme than all her symptoms of heat,

plus the exacerbation of all symptoms in cold weather, but are better

with heat so long as it's dry heat and not humid. Do you have any

additional comments for this more complete picture?

 

Andrea Beth

 

Hi Andrea,

 

As for your question, Huo Xiang Zheng Qi Tang treats dampheat with

damp predominate. Dampheat with damp predominate will make

someone cold and make their symptoms worse in cold weather and it

will depress the heat internally explaining the warm belly and yellow

tongue. And to address Jahans suggestion of warming the Yang, we are

chasing symptoms if we tonify the yang. It is so easy to want to

warm when someone is cold but that would be a mistake here.

Resolving the damp will allow her Yang to become available again.

Obviously with my method of diagnosis, Jahan's suggestion of Bu Zhong

Yi Qi Tang would be contraindicated.

 

To address Jahan's question about the heat aspect. He said that the

minor heat signs can be explained by the dampness. I would say yes,

but that they are still heat signs no matter that the heat came from

the depressed dampness. Guo Huiliu is very clear that this kind of

heat within the damp is dampheat. The tongue coating is key - it is

sticky yellow.

 

In general I want to find the core and definitive diagnosis and use

that to explain the non-definitive signs and symptoms. We know

dampheat definitively and all the signs and symptoms can be explained

by that.

 

I would take out the Bai Zhu because it is a more fixed herb - i.e.

it doesn't help movement. To clear the damp heat the Qi dynamic must

be gently moved. Later it may be appropriate.

 

I would not use Tian Ma Gou Teng Yin. It is for headaches so it

addresses the right symptom, but the disease factor it is for is

Liver Yang/Wind in the head with Kidney deficiency and blood stasis.

That doesn't connect with the diagnosis in this case. When formulas

address all three of Qin Bo Wei's pilars of prescribing, they really

work. 1. Disease Factor 2. Symptom 3. Location

 

Sharon Weizenbaum

86 Henry Street

Amherst, MA 01002

413-549-4021

sweiz

www.whitepinehealingarts.com

 

 

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Posted
Posted

Hi Guy,

 

Nice to hear from you again! Whey protein - an interesting idea; I had no

knowledge that it is so high in protein! Is it a complete protein? Since this

patient is so cold, I have advised against cold drinks such as smoothies.

Besides, she detests cold drinks and foods anyway. Is there another way to use

whey protein? An aside question - is whey protein contraindicated in people

who are allergic to dairy?

 

Thank you,

Andrea Beth

 

 

DrGRPorter wrote:

 

Hello Beth!

 

A great source of protein that does not come from killing things with eyes

is Whey Protein. Well absorbed, esp if you mix it with other foods... maybe

a berry smoothy or something like that.

 

2 scoops a day might be a good goal. That's 56 g. protein.

 

In a message dated 11/22/2006 9:38:21 A.M. Central Standard Time, @y

ahoo.com writes:

 

Thank you, Jahan. I am wondering what you include as sources of " high

quality protein... without eyeballs " ? This has been one of the things she and I

have been wondering about. Bu Zhong Yi Qi Tang is one of the formulas I have

considered for her.

 

 

 

 

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Posted
Posted

Andrea,

There is so much more to using acupuncture out there then what we learned in

school. What amazed me the most

is that she uses only acupuncture and gets great results with many very complex

disorders. I have also found this to

be accurate in my limited professional practice. Take care and Happy

Thanksgiving !

 

Mike W. Bowser, L Ac

 

________________________________

> Chinese Medicine

>

> Wed, 22 Nov 2006 07:02:27 -0800

> RE: Help for 5 years of daily headaches

>

> Thank you, Mike. This is most interesting.

> Andrea Beth

> mike Bowser <naturaldoc1<naturaldoc1> wrote:

> I hope you will check out Kiiko Matsumoto's clinical strategies vol 1 for

similar types of cases. This might be considered an immune reaction, confirmed

by

> palpation of the upper cervicals and also lower right abdominal areas.

Protocol would also suggest checking the oketsu reflex, lower left abdominal

area

> for sensitivity. Working with original trauma is important and often can cause

blood stagnation (oketsu). It would be hard to speculate further w/o actual

> palpation of reflex areas and release points as to diagnosis. Please get a

copy of the text. When stagnation occurs for a long time, it creates a decline

in

> many areas and systems. I would recomment first opening up the channels and

then see where things go from there. Let me know if you have more directed

> questions about this method. Best of luck.

> Mike W. Bowser, L Ac

> ________________________________

> > To:

Chinese Traditional Medicine <Chinese Traditional Medicine\

@>;

< >;

alumni-sd<alumni-sd

> > <

> > Mon, 20 Nov 2006 15:41:35 -0800

> > Help for 5 years of daily headaches

> >

> > Hi All,

> > I have an 18-year old female patient who has had constant headaches for the

last 5 years. She has seen all the western docs, had all the tests done, and

nothing is conclusive. Her neurologist referred her for acupuncture.

> > Her history is most interesting. Prior to her headaches, she had a bout of

mononucleosis at age 13, followed by removal of her tonsils. After the surgery,

her headaches started. One of the things I am wondering, is whether is might be

a long-lasting side effect of the anesthesia?

> > On her first visit, she appeared morose, depressed, lethargic, and

extremely, ghastly pale. She wears sunglasses and a hat indoors, because light

aggravates her headaches. Headaches are also aggravated by exposure to humid

weather and cold, damp weather. Other symptoms included achy joints in her hands

and fingers, knees, and hips, which also worsened with the same kinds of weather

that aggravates the headaches. Other complaints also included difficulty

sleeping - restless tossing and turning; profound fatigue, and loss of appetite.

In addition, her hands and feet were extremely cold and damp, with her abdomen

feeling burning hot and sweaty on palpation. Note that she wore gloves and

thermal underwear underneath her clothes and heavy jacket on an 85-degree day.

Yes, she complained of feeling cold all the time.

> > 6 acupuncture treatments have not impacted her headache in the slightest. I

have worked to raise yang, release muscle tension in the neck and shoulders,

downbear liver yang, and tonify qi to no avail. However, her sleep has improved

to the point that she is now sleeping soundly through the night and does not

need to spend her days languishing exhausted in bed. Her appetite has improved

with digestive enzymes. Her energy has increased to the point that she has taken

up skateboarding on warm days! Her mood is greatly improved, and she laughs and

smiles when she comes for her appointments now. She is interested in learning

what she can to do help herself heal.

> > Part of her problem is that she has been a vegetarian most of her life, and

has not eaten any red meat since age 3. Her muscles are very weak and droopy,

without shape or vigor. She has an issue about eating anything " that has eyes " .

She is thirsty all the time. There are no complaints about digestion,

defecation, or urination.

> > Her MD's have suggested that she might have Epstein-Barr, or fibromyalgia,

or " mono in her bones " .

> > Last spring, she had a rare form of pneumonia caused by Chlamydia in her

lungs, which caused her to lose a great deal of weight. She was severely ill for

5 months before coming to see me. She had been gaining 10 pounds per month prior

to the pneumonia, with no cause diagnosable by her doctors. Her mother claimed

she had not increased her food intake.

> > Her tongue is pale pink with a slightly red tip and sides, and a wet, thin,

sticky yellow coat.

> > Her pulse is weak and fine on the right, soft and weak on the left, medium

depth, at 70 beats per minute.

> > She has dark circles under her eyes.

> > Before having mono, she says her health was great.

> > Her headaches are mostly onthe right temporal-vertex region of her head, and

slightly on the left side also. They are there all the time, varying only in

severity. At their most severe, her right eyelid droops and her vision in her

right eye is impaired.

> > I have diagnosed her with a shao yang disorder, also with spleen qi

deficiency generating dampness, and kidney qi deficiency. There is also a wei qi

deficiency. I'm not sure about the latent pathogen axis. I could benefit from

some guidance at this point.

> > I have given her two different herbal formulas - Si Ni San, for the

possibility that she did have heat constrained in the interior all this time, as

reflected by her hot abdomen, with her cold hands and feet. The coldness in her

hands and feet improved only slightly with this formula. I also gave her Tong

Qiao Huo Xue Tang for the headache, on the basis that any 5-year headache would

have stagnant blood as part of its disharmony. The headache did not change with

this formula.

> > I am now looking at Xiao Chai Hu Tang, and wondering if there is something I

am missing. One of the things I am wondering about is her inordinate sense of

cold. Could she have a cold pathogen lodged in her head causing the headaches?

And what about the possibility that this is somehow due to some damage from

anesthesia during her surgery - how would we treat that?

> > This young woman has been home-schooled during the last 5 years due to her

intolerance of noise, light, and crowds. She has missed out on her teen years.

I'd like to give her her life back.

> > Oh yeah, a related question - how long should we administer formulae like Si

Ni San or Tong Qiao Huo Xue Tang or Xiao Chai Hu Tang, before expecting to see

results or trying a different approach? In a case like this, would we give a

higher dose?

> > Any ideas are most welcome.

> > Thank you,

> >

> >

> > Sponsored Link

> > Mortgage rates as low as 4.625% - $150,000 loan for $579 a month.

Intro-*Terms

> >

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Posted
Posted

Andrea,

Forgot to mention my experience with a whiplash case that created a biginning

point for migraines in a patient. She was seeing

a DC for about a year when they were referred to me. Again, the idea of an

original trauma that can create problems for the

person is quite real. I hope you are able to check out the text. There is

supposed to a vol 2 out soon as well. Great stuff.

Enjoy !

 

Mike W. Bowser, L Ac

 

________________________________

> Chinese Medicine

>

> Wed, 22 Nov 2006 07:02:23 -0800

> RE: Help for 5 years of daily headaches

>

> Thank you, Mike. This is most interesting.

> Andrea Beth

> mike Bowser <naturaldoc1<naturaldoc1> wrote:

> I hope you will check out Kiiko Matsumoto's clinical strategies vol 1 for

similar types of cases. This might be considered an immune reaction, confirmed

by

> palpation of the upper cervicals and also lower right abdominal areas.

Protocol would also suggest checking the oketsu reflex, lower left abdominal

area

> for sensitivity. Working with original trauma is important and often can cause

blood stagnation (oketsu). It would be hard to speculate further w/o actual

> palpation of reflex areas and release points as to diagnosis. Please get a

copy of the text. When stagnation occurs for a long time, it creates a decline

in

> many areas and systems. I would recomment first opening up the channels and

then see where things go from there. Let me know if you have more directed

> questions about this method. Best of luck.

> Mike W. Bowser, L Ac

> ________________________________

> > To:

Chinese Traditional Medicine <Chinese Traditional Medicine\

@>;

< >;

alumni-sd<alumni-sd

> > <

> > Mon, 20 Nov 2006 15:41:35 -0800

> > Help for 5 years of daily headaches

> >

> > Hi All,

> > I have an 18-year old female patient who has had constant headaches for the

last 5 years. She has seen all the western docs, had all the tests done, and

nothing is conclusive. Her neurologist referred her for acupuncture.

> > Her history is most interesting. Prior to her headaches, she had a bout of

mononucleosis at age 13, followed by removal of her tonsils. After the surgery,

her headaches started. One of the things I am wondering, is whether is might be

a long-lasting side effect of the anesthesia?

> > On her first visit, she appeared morose, depressed, lethargic, and

extremely, ghastly pale. She wears sunglasses and a hat indoors, because light

aggravates her headaches. Headaches are also aggravated by exposure to humid

weather and cold, damp weather. Other symptoms included achy joints in her hands

and fingers, knees, and hips, which also worsened with the same kinds of weather

that aggravates the headaches. Other complaints also included difficulty

sleeping - restless tossing and turning; profound fatigue, and loss of appetite.

In addition, her hands and feet were extremely cold and damp, with her abdomen

feeling burning hot and sweaty on palpation. Note that she wore gloves and

thermal underwear underneath her clothes and heavy jacket on an 85-degree day.

Yes, she complained of feeling cold all the time.

> > 6 acupuncture treatments have not impacted her headache in the slightest. I

have worked to raise yang, release muscle tension in the neck and shoulders,

downbear liver yang, and tonify qi to no avail. However, her sleep has improved

to the point that she is now sleeping soundly through the night and does not

need to spend her days languishing exhausted in bed. Her appetite has improved

with digestive enzymes. Her energy has increased to the point that she has taken

up skateboarding on warm days! Her mood is greatly improved, and she laughs and

smiles when she comes for her appointments now. She is interested in learning

what she can to do help herself heal.

> > Part of her problem is that she has been a vegetarian most of her life, and

has not eaten any red meat since age 3. Her muscles are very weak and droopy,

without shape or vigor. She has an issue about eating anything " that has eyes " .

She is thirsty all the time. There are no complaints about digestion,

defecation, or urination.

> > Her MD's have suggested that she might have Epstein-Barr, or fibromyalgia,

or " mono in her bones " .

> > Last spring, she had a rare form of pneumonia caused by Chlamydia in her

lungs, which caused her to lose a great deal of weight. She was severely ill for

5 months before coming to see me. She had been gaining 10 pounds per month prior

to the pneumonia, with no cause diagnosable by her doctors. Her mother claimed

she had not increased her food intake.

> > Her tongue is pale pink with a slightly red tip and sides, and a wet, thin,

sticky yellow coat.

> > Her pulse is weak and fine on the right, soft and weak on the left, medium

depth, at 70 beats per minute.

> > She has dark circles under her eyes.

> > Before having mono, she says her health was great.

> > Her headaches are mostly onthe right temporal-vertex region of her head, and

slightly on the left side also. They are there all the time, varying only in

severity. At their most severe, her right eyelid droops and her vision in her

right eye is impaired.

> > I have diagnosed her with a shao yang disorder, also with spleen qi

deficiency generating dampness, and kidney qi deficiency. There is also a wei qi

deficiency. I'm not sure about the latent pathogen axis. I could benefit from

some guidance at this point.

> > I have given her two different herbal formulas - Si Ni San, for the

possibility that she did have heat constrained in the interior all this time, as

reflected by her hot abdomen, with her cold hands and feet. The coldness in her

hands and feet improved only slightly with this formula. I also gave her Tong

Qiao Huo Xue Tang for the headache, on the basis that any 5-year headache would

have stagnant blood as part of its disharmony. The headache did not change with

this formula.

> > I am now looking at Xiao Chai Hu Tang, and wondering if there is something I

am missing. One of the things I am wondering about is her inordinate sense of

cold. Could she have a cold pathogen lodged in her head causing the headaches?

And what about the possibility that this is somehow due to some damage from

anesthesia during her surgery - how would we treat that?

> > This young woman has been home-schooled during the last 5 years due to her

intolerance of noise, light, and crowds. She has missed out on her teen years.

I'd like to give her her life back.

> > Oh yeah, a related question - how long should we administer formulae like Si

Ni San or Tong Qiao Huo Xue Tang or Xiao Chai Hu Tang, before expecting to see

results or trying a different approach? In a case like this, would we give a

higher dose?

> > Any ideas are most welcome.

> > Thank you,

> >

> >

> > Sponsored Link

> > Mortgage rates as low as 4.625% - $150,000 loan for $579 a month.

Intro-*Terms

> >

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