Dr. or Doctor title in ads, How can it be legal?

[Guest guest]

Dear Colleague,

 

According to the code 1399.456. Use of the Title " Doctor " .

 

Because of this code I have been searching for 12 years in order find

and to attend a school which may grant a PH.D or O.M.D, an accredited

school, but there is none in U.S . However, there are many bogus,

non-accredited ones.

All of non-accredited or bogus certificates are granted annually.

If these ads " using the title Dr. or doctor, or O.M.D "

constitute an unlawful or unprofessional act, I do not understand why

the board of Acupuncture has done nothing against them.

How does the Board of Acupuncture, prevent all false ads,

these behaviors, the practitioners, all of them from schools, clinics

and business...

 

All ads anywhere in U.S from schools, businesses, clinics they called

themselves doctors and very proud of their certification of O.M.D,

Ph.D. I felt insulted when I applied for an Acupuncturist in a

hospital when someone asked me why not putting yourself as a doctor,

Ph.D or O.M.D ? I did not get a job but someone else had the job

because... This truly is unfair!!!!!!!!!!

Please, Think I think can teach O.M.D better than some of them they

claimed they have O.M.D or Ph.D, as I see them in seminars.

 

I do not think it is fair for someone called himself doctor and others

must follow the rule like some of you and me.

 

I think the title of Dr. or Doctor or O.M.D is not being used because

it conflicts with M.D, confusing or misleading your clients to see you

as an M.D not an Acupuncturist.

 

What I am thinking if we are making it clear by putting, let's say :

Dr. John Smith, LAc License Acupuncturist. I do not think anybody

will confuse that title consider John as a Medical doctor because

there is no sign of M.D there. Besides, we introduce ourselves to our

patients as Acupuncturist, not as an M.D. What is your opinions?????

 

Doctor " title " is only used for medical doctor. I think this is a

politics. We must do something about this. Let's look at Chiropractic

, he is not a medical doctor and nor a Ph. D. How about Optometrist,

only measure the eyes, not an M.D. ? Another one Psychologist ?

.......... There are more and more. However, they are proudly called

themselves and put on their ads as Doctors and we are not.....

Is this a fair market? Equal right? I think we should fight our way

in with that prestige title, but not confusing our consumer by adding

LAc or NCCA, not adding or presenting as an M.D .......... How does it

sound? Fiar????

 

If there is a Ph.D or O.M.D title is being taught anywhere in U.S. I

think we all, current acupuncturists , should be honored as one.

Everyone is created being equal. Those are teaching Ph.D or O.M.D are

not above us at all.

I know there is no genuine title of Ph.D or O.M.D in U.S , how can

these people or schools claim they will teach Ph.D and certify O.M.D

to others??? Please be fair!!!

 

I had attended a school for 2 years and I stopped, paid $12000,

becaused I found it was non-accredited, a crooked. All their teachings

were a joke. How can a non-accredited professional can teach students

and gave them certifications as Ph.D or O.M.D????? and they themselves

are not certified. How do we stop all the acts of these unprofessional

licensees or schools conducting unethical conducts at once????????

Please help and advise!

 

Thanks for suggestion and opinion!

[Guest guest]

Hi,

 

See inserts below:

 

According to the code 1399.456. Use of the Title " Doctor " .

 

Because of this code I have been searching for 12 years in order find

and to attend a school which may grant a PH.D or O.M.D, an accredited

school, but there is none in U.S . However, there are many bogus,

non-accredited ones. All of non-accredited or bogus certificates are

granted annually.

If these ads " using the title Dr. or doctor, or O.M.D "

constitute an unlawful or unprofessional act, I do not understand why

the board of Acupuncture has done nothing against them.

How does the Board of Acupuncture, prevent all false ads,

these behaviours, the practitioners, all of them from schools, clinics

and business...

 

Attilio: It's a big problem that companies (I won't call them

universities) are handing out Ph.D's over the internet in the US. I

don't understand why it's being allowed. It causes problems all over

the world and not just in the US. There was a recent case of a man

who posed as an expert and gave evidence in court after buying a Ph.D

from a company in the US.

 

All ads anywhere in U.S from schools, businesses, clinics they called

themselves doctors and very proud of their certification of O.M.D,

Ph.D. I felt insulted when I applied for an Acupuncturist in a

hospital when someone asked me why not putting yourself as a doctor,

Ph.D or O.M.D ? I did not get a job but someone else had the job

because... This truly is unfair!!!!!!!!!!

Please, Think I think can teach O.M.D better than some of them they

claimed they have O.M.D or Ph.D, as I see them in seminars.

 

Attilio: Here in the UK, you can call yourself a Dr even though you

don't have medical training. This is because they could have a Ph.D

and Chinese medicine is not classified as a medical service because

it's unregulated. When regulation comes into effect in a few years,

those practising Chinese medicine will not be able to use the title

of Dr because Chinese medicine will be reclassified as a medical

service.

 

I do not think it is fair for someone called himself doctor and others

must follow the rule like some of you and me.

 

I think the title of Dr. or Doctor or O.M.D is not being used because

it conflicts with M.D, confusing or misleading your clients to see you

as an M.D not an Acupuncturist.

 

What I am thinking if we are making it clear by putting, let's say :

Dr. John Smith, LAc License Acupuncturist. I do not think anybody

will confuse that title consider John as a Medical doctor because

there is no sign of M.D there. Besides, we introduce ourselves to our

patients as Acupuncturist, not as an M.D. What is your opinions?????

 

Attilio: I disagree. Most people think Dr is the same as MD.

 

Doctor " title " is only used for medical doctor. I think this is a

politics. We must do something about this. Let's look at Chiropractic

, he is not a medical doctor and nor a Ph. D. How about Optometrist,

only measure the eyes, not an M.D. ? Another one Psychologist ?

.......... There are more and more. However, they are proudly called

themselves and put on their ads as Doctors and we are not.....

Is this a fair market? Equal right? I think we should fight our way

in with that prestige title, but not confusing our consumer by adding

LAc or NCCA, not adding or presenting as an M.D .......... How does it

sound? Fiar????

 

Attilio: Chiropractors, psychologists, etc are a regulated field,

Chinese medicine is not. If you want fairness then Chinese medicine

will have to be regulated first.

 

If there is a Ph.D or O.M.D title is being taught anywhere in U.S. I

think we all, current acupuncturists , should be honored as one.

Everyone is created being equal. Those are teaching Ph.D or O.M.D are

not above us at all.

I know there is no genuine title of Ph.D or O.M.D in U.S , how can

these people or schools claim they will teach Ph.D and certify O.M.D

to others??? Please be fair!!!

 

Attilio: Everyone's education is different. You can't use a universal

title when the education is so diverse. This also highlights the need

for regulation.

 

I had attended a school for 2 years and I stopped, paid $12000,

becaused I found it was non-accredited, a crooked. All their teachings

were a joke. How can a non-accredited professional can teach students

and gave them certifications as Ph.D or O.M.D????? and they themselves

are not certified. How do we stop all the acts of these unprofessional

licensees or schools conducting unethical conducts at once????????

Please help and advise!

 

Attilio: Again, dodgy schools can operate because there's no

regulation. The answer is REGULATION, REGULATION, REGULATION.

[Guest guest]

On Sunday 25 February 2007 4:17 am, wrote:

 

<snip>

> Attilio: Again, dodgy schools can operate because there's no

> regulation. The answer is REGULATION, REGULATION, REGULATION.

 

Hi Attilio!

 

We have a lot of regulation in the US. Those who wish to go a step beyond what

is allowed just do whatever they want and gain a competitive advantage. The

government never does anything unless they are WAY out of line.

 

Every now and then they have a " crackdown " and fine a few of the worst

offenders. They have to pay up and promise to never do it again. Maybe get

their picture in the paper as well.

 

He could come to Florida, get a Florida license and legally use the title OMD,

Doctor of Oriental Medicine, AFTER his name. There are people using " Dr. " in

front of their name but that is against the law unless they actually have a

doctor's degree. Of course, some of these doctorates are Ph.D.s in anything

but what they are actually doing.

--

Regards,

 

Pete

http://www.pete-theisen.com/

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 02/25/07 12:32:04 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,

alonmarcus writes:

 

Until we have a regionally accredit Dr entry degrees none will really make

any real difference regardless of their quality.

 

 

 

If the private independent trade schools continue to market the

non-regionally accredited degrees this will never be resolved.

 

Since the political nature of this seems to be one big play obviously for

many reasons, the words or letters or titles that are allowed vary state to

state. The profession might be held back to a great degree by the trade schools

which control the education but in key states they lost the battle on titles

versus more non-regionally-accredited trade school degrees.

 

Richard

 

 

<BR><BR><BR>**************************************<BR> AOL now offers free

email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at

http://www.aol.com.

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Using the title Dr. is legal in New Mexico:

(20) “Doctor of oriental medicine” is a physician licensed to practice

acupuncture and oriental medicine pursuant to the act and as such has

responsibility for his or her patient as a primary care physician or independent

specialty care physician.

 

It is a State Licensing issue. Other States offer DOM and some OMD.

Although, I thought the western medical profession put an end to the OMD as they

did not want the words 'medical doctor' in our title. You can check State laws

to see which offer 'Dr'.

 

If I was to practice outside of New Mexico but keep my license up-to-date, I

was told I can list " Doctor of Oriental Medicine (New Mexico) beneath my name,

but cannot list myself as Doctor Kathleen...

 

Many students who graduated from the colleges in New Mexico, take the State

exam even if they are practicing elsewhere so they can show Doctor of Oriental

Medicine (New Mexico).

 

Sincerely,

Kathleen

 

dr_namnguyen58 <dr_namnguyen58 wrote:

Dear Colleague,

 

According to the code 1399.456. Use of the Title " Doctor " .

 

Because of this code I have been searching for 12 years in order find

and to attend a school which may grant a PH.D or O.M.D, an accredited

school, but there is none in U.S . However, there are many bogus,

non-accredited ones.

All of non-accredited or bogus certificates are granted annually.

If these ads " using the title Dr. or doctor, or O.M.D "

constitute an unlawful or unprofessional act, I do not understand why

the board of Acupuncture has done nothing against them.

How does the Board of Acupuncture, prevent all false ads,

these behaviors, the practitioners, all of them from schools, clinics

and business...

 

All ads anywhere in U.S from schools, businesses, clinics they called

themselves doctors and very proud of their certification of O.M.D,

Ph.D. I felt insulted when I applied for an Acupuncturist in a

hospital when someone asked me why not putting yourself as a doctor,

Ph.D or O.M.D ? I did not get a job but someone else had the job

because... This truly is unfair!!!!!!!!!!

Please, Think I think can teach O.M.D better than some of them they

claimed they have O.M.D or Ph.D, as I see them in seminars.

 

I do not think it is fair for someone called himself doctor and others

must follow the rule like some of you and me.

 

I think the title of Dr. or Doctor or O.M.D is not being used because

it conflicts with M.D, confusing or misleading your clients to see you

as an M.D not an Acupuncturist.

 

What I am thinking if we are making it clear by putting, let's say :

Dr. John Smith, LAc License Acupuncturist. I do not think anybody

will confuse that title consider John as a Medical doctor because

there is no sign of M.D there. Besides, we introduce ourselves to our

patients as Acupuncturist, not as an M.D. What is your opinions?????

 

Doctor " title " is only used for medical doctor. I think this is a

politics. We must do something about this. Let's look at Chiropractic

, he is not a medical doctor and nor a Ph. D. How about Optometrist,

only measure the eyes, not an M.D. ? Another one Psychologist ?

.......... There are more and more. However, they are proudly called

themselves and put on their ads as Doctors and we are not.....

Is this a fair market? Equal right? I think we should fight our way

in with that prestige title, but not confusing our consumer by adding

LAc or NCCA, not adding or presenting as an M.D .......... How does it

sound? Fiar????

 

If there is a Ph.D or O.M.D title is being taught anywhere in U.S. I

think we all, current acupuncturists , should be honored as one.

Everyone is created being equal. Those are teaching Ph.D or O.M.D are

not above us at all.

I know there is no genuine title of Ph.D or O.M.D in U.S , how can

these people or schools claim they will teach Ph.D and certify O.M.D

to others??? Please be fair!!!

 

I had attended a school for 2 years and I stopped, paid $12000,

becaused I found it was non-accredited, a crooked. All their teachings

were a joke. How can a non-accredited professional can teach students

and gave them certifications as Ph.D or O.M.D????? and they themselves

are not certified. How do we stop all the acts of these unprofessional

licensees or schools conducting unethical conducts at once????????

Please help and advise!

 

Thanks for suggestion and opinion!

 

 

 

 

 

 

Kathleen Mathews, DOM

Downtown Acupuncture and Facial Rejuvenation Center

400 Gold Avenue, SW, Suite 1060

Albuquerque, NM 87102

Office Phone: 505.848.7828 Cell: 505.514.1671

www.kathleenmathews.com

I Ching

Clear thought lodges in the Yi,

But in some lines no-one can find it.

If you don't understand a line,

You interpret it in vain;

May as well paint a picture of the wind.

– Qiu Cheng (12th century)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Never miss an email again!

Toolbar alerts you the instant new Mail arrives. Check it out.

 

 

[Guest guest]

On Sunday 25 February 2007 7:29 am, Pete Theisen wrote:

 

Hi Everybody!

 

Typo: It is DOM not OMD in Florida. Sorry for the mix-up.

 

> On Sunday 25 February 2007 4:17 am, wrote:

>

> <snip>

>

> > Attilio: Again, dodgy schools can operate because there's no

> > regulation. The answer is REGULATION, REGULATION, REGULATION.

>

> Hi Attilio!

>

> We have a lot of regulation in the US. Those who wish to go a step beyond

> what is allowed just do whatever they want and gain a competitive

> advantage. The government never does anything unless they are WAY out of

> line.

>

> Every now and then they have a " crackdown " and fine a few of the worst

> offenders. They have to pay up and promise to never do it again. Maybe get

> their picture in the paper as well.

>

> He could come to Florida, get a Florida license and legally use the title

> OMD, Doctor of Oriental Medicine, AFTER his name. There are people using

> " Dr. " in front of their name but that is against the law unless they

> actually have a doctor's degree. Of course, some of these doctorates are

> Ph.D.s in anything but what they are actually doing.

 

--

Regards,

 

Pete

http://www.pete-theisen.com/

[Guest guest]

I would like to add some dialogue to this topic.

 

" ... a school which may grant a PH.D or O.M.D, an accredited

school, but there is none in U.S "

 

Actually, there is one in CA (California) that is granted the

ability to give this title (PhD) under the CA BPPVE (short for the

state educational dept). The school is American Univ of

Complimentary Medicine and the degree is in classical

and features such prominent practitioners

as Jeffrey Yuen, Kiiko Matsumoto and others with legit

degrees. Some of the CA schools have started to offer

a PhD with a sister school in China. Look for the DAOM

or maybe the uninspired DOM (NOMAA) to take hold.

 

Each state is responsible, through the educational dept,

what they will allow and not allow. Diploma mills or

corp's that give out these usually have no oversight

and many would say they are just taking advantage

of a poorly designed system. The truth is that a co

located in WY is not under the jurisdication of the

CA BPPVE, even though CA residents can take these

online classes and get their PhD. In effect, this action

makes these courses worthless in CA. Few would pay

money for a doctorate if they cannot use the title.

 

The CAB took action on these years ago by making

LAc's unable to use " Dr " and/or having to list what

the degree is in otherwise face unprofessional

conduct charges by the state.

 

There is not doubt in my mind that many w/i the

profession (US) believe that our training should

have conferred upon us a doctorate degree. Many

of these people will find other ways to get this

unfounded recognition, licensure in certain states

is one example and is just as bogus. I find this

one more legit but just as wrong and falls

far behind those with a TCMD (bogus degree).

 

This problem is very rampant and yet when

programs participate it makes you wonder.

Look through some of the school catalogs

and note what they choose to recognize

for their faculty education. Some might

actually still use MD (China), which is

not allowed in CA advertising and others

might say TCMD. Neither of these is right

but until the profession wants to get an entry

level doctorate, we are fighting ourselves

and others will simply say that we have

bogus degrees.

 

" I do not understand why the board of Acupuncture

has done nothing against them. "

 

That would mean that the state laws provide for

this and many states do not. Education is very

lacking at a majority of the programs (US) because

the organizations that accredit it do not want

tough standards, many schools would be closed

down.

 

" I felt insulted when I applied for an Acupuncturist in a

hospital when someone asked me why not putting yourself as a doctor,

Ph.D or O.M.D ? "

 

The public, and many other practitioners, do not understand

that we, in the US, do not have entry level doctorates.

 

" I had attended a school for 2 years and I stopped, paid $12000,

becaused I found it was non-accredited, a crooked. All their teachings

were a joke. "

 

The fact that you quit after you found out says something of your

character. Congrats. In final passing, you should mention the names

of these diploma mills so that all of us can become educated on this

behavior. I would say that there might be someone on this list who

is unaware and interested in getting their doctorate. You could save

them some face and money.

 

Thanks for the dialogue.

 

Mike W. Bowser, L Ac

 

 

_______________

Discover the new Windows Vista

http://search.msn.com/results.aspx?q=windows+vista & mkt=en-US & form=QBRE

[Guest guest]

If you are really into the title Doctor, you can skip New Mexico and their

$1000 State licensing exam and just get a license from Rhode Island and do

the same thing.

 

According to NCCAOM the following states use the title Doctor: NM, RI, NV

and FL. See: http://www.nccaom.org/StateData.htm

 

I personally don't feel the title is at all important to what I do. I'm

reminded of the scene form the movie " Patch Adams " where Robin Williams is

talking to his love interest about setting up his clinic and how they

wouldn't have titles. She desperately wanted the title and the white coat

where he felt that it created a separation between him and the patient.

 

Christopher Vedeler L.Ac., C.Ht.

Oasis Acupuncture

http://www.oasisacupuncture.com

9832 N. Hayden Rd.

Suite 215

Scottsdale, AZ 85258

Phone: (480) 991-3650

 

 

 

Chinese Medicine

Chinese Medicine On Behalf Of Kathleen

Mathews

Sunday, February 25, 2007 7:30 AM

Chinese Medicine

Re: Dr. or Doctor title in ads, How can it be legal?

 

 

 

Using the title Dr. is legal in New Mexico:

(20) " Doctor of oriental medicine " is a physician licensed to practice

acupuncture and oriental medicine pursuant to the act and as such has

responsibility for his or her patient as a primary care physician or

independent specialty care physician.

 

It is a State Licensing issue. Other States offer DOM and some OMD.

Although, I thought the western medical profession put an end to the OMD as

they did not want the words 'medical doctor' in our title. You can check

State laws to see which offer 'Dr'.

 

If I was to practice outside of New Mexico but keep my license up-to-date, I

was told I can list " Doctor of Oriental Medicine (New Mexico) beneath my

name, but cannot list myself as Doctor Kathleen...

 

Many students who graduated from the colleges in New Mexico, take the State

exam even if they are practicing elsewhere so they can show Doctor of

Oriental Medicine (New Mexico).

 

Sincerely,

Kathleen

 

dr_namnguyen58 <dr_namnguyen58@ <dr_namnguyen58%40>

> wrote:

Dear Colleague,

 

According to the code 1399.456. Use of the Title " Doctor " .

 

Because of this code I have been searching for 12 years in order find

and to attend a school which may grant a PH.D or O.M.D, an accredited

school, but there is none in U.S . However, there are many bogus,

non-accredited ones.

All of non-accredited or bogus certificates are granted annually.

If these ads " using the title Dr. or doctor, or O.M.D "

constitute an unlawful or unprofessional act, I do not understand why

the board of Acupuncture has done nothing against them.

How does the Board of Acupuncture, prevent all false ads,

these behaviors, the practitioners, all of them from schools, clinics

and business...

 

All ads anywhere in U.S from schools, businesses, clinics they called

themselves doctors and very proud of their certification of O.M.D,

Ph.D. I felt insulted when I applied for an Acupuncturist in a

hospital when someone asked me why not putting yourself as a doctor,

Ph.D or O.M.D ? I did not get a job but someone else had the job

because... This truly is unfair!!!!!!!!!!

Please, Think I think can teach O.M.D better than some of them they

claimed they have O.M.D or Ph.D, as I see them in seminars.

 

I do not think it is fair for someone called himself doctor and others

must follow the rule like some of you and me.

 

I think the title of Dr. or Doctor or O.M.D is not being used because

it conflicts with M.D, confusing or misleading your clients to see you

as an M.D not an Acupuncturist.

 

What I am thinking if we are making it clear by putting, let's say :

Dr. John Smith, LAc License Acupuncturist. I do not think anybody

will confuse that title consider John as a Medical doctor because

there is no sign of M.D there. Besides, we introduce ourselves to our

patients as Acupuncturist, not as an M.D. What is your opinions?????

 

Doctor " title " is only used for medical doctor. I think this is a

politics. We must do something about this. Let's look at Chiropractic

, he is not a medical doctor and nor a Ph. D. How about Optometrist,

only measure the eyes, not an M.D. ? Another one Psychologist ?

.......... There are more and more. However, they are proudly called

themselves and put on their ads as Doctors and we are not.....

Is this a fair market? Equal right? I think we should fight our way

in with that prestige title, but not confusing our consumer by adding

LAc or NCCA, not adding or presenting as an M.D .......... How does it

sound? Fiar????

 

If there is a Ph.D or O.M.D title is being taught anywhere in U.S. I

think we all, current acupuncturists , should be honored as one.

Everyone is created being equal. Those are teaching Ph.D or O.M.D are

not above us at all.

I know there is no genuine title of Ph.D or O.M.D in U.S , how can

these people or schools claim they will teach Ph.D and certify O.M.D

to others??? Please be fair!!!

 

I had attended a school for 2 years and I stopped, paid $12000,

becaused I found it was non-accredited, a crooked. All their teachings

were a joke. How can a non-accredited professional can teach students

and gave them certifications as Ph.D or O.M.D????? and they themselves

are not certified. How do we stop all the acts of these unprofessional

licensees or schools conducting unethical conducts at once????????

Please help and advise!

 

Thanks for suggestion and opinion!

 

Kathleen Mathews, DOM

Downtown Acupuncture and Facial Rejuvenation Center

400 Gold Avenue, SW, Suite 1060

Albuquerque, NM 87102

Office Phone: 505.848.7828 Cell: 505.514.1671 www.kathleenmathews.com

I Ching

Clear thought lodges in the Yi,

But in some lines no-one can find it.

If you don't understand a line,

You interpret it in vain;

May as well paint a picture of the wind.

- Qiu Cheng (12th century)

 

 

Never miss an email again!

Toolbar alerts you the instant new Mail arrives. Check it out.

 

 

[Guest guest]

The CAB took action on these years ago by making

LAc's unable to use " Dr " and/or having to list what

the degree is in otherwise face unprofessional

conduct charges by the state

>>>>

They do however allow those who got their " degrees " from CA schools that were

authorized by the CA dep of education at the time to use the DOM or OMD title.

Until we have a regionally accredit Dr entry degrees none will really make any

real difference regardless of their quality.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

-

mike Bowser

Chinese Traditional Medicine

Sunday, February 25, 2007 7:54 AM

RE: Dr. or Doctor title in ads, How can it be legal?

 

 

 

I would like to add some dialogue to this topic.

 

" ... a school which may grant a PH.D or O.M.D, an accredited

school, but there is none in U.S "

 

Actually, there is one in CA (California) that is granted the

ability to give this title (PhD) under the CA BPPVE (short for the

state educational dept). The school is American Univ of

Complimentary Medicine and the degree is in classical

and features such prominent practitioners

as Jeffrey Yuen, Kiiko Matsumoto and others with legit

degrees. Some of the CA schools have started to offer

a PhD with a sister school in China. Look for the DAOM

or maybe the uninspired DOM (NOMAA) to take hold.

 

Each state is responsible, through the educational dept,

what they will allow and not allow. Diploma mills or

corp's that give out these usually have no oversight

and many would say they are just taking advantage

of a poorly designed system. The truth is that a co

located in WY is not under the jurisdication of the

CA BPPVE, even though CA residents can take these

online classes and get their PhD. In effect, this action

makes these courses worthless in CA. Few would pay

money for a doctorate if they cannot use the title.

 

The CAB took action on these years ago by making

LAc's unable to use " Dr " and/or having to list what

the degree is in otherwise face unprofessional

conduct charges by the state.

 

There is not doubt in my mind that many w/i the

profession (US) believe that our training should

have conferred upon us a doctorate degree. Many

of these people will find other ways to get this

unfounded recognition, licensure in certain states

is one example and is just as bogus. I find this

one more legit but just as wrong and falls

far behind those with a TCMD (bogus degree).

 

This problem is very rampant and yet when

programs participate it makes you wonder.

Look through some of the school catalogs

and note what they choose to recognize

for their faculty education. Some might

actually still use MD (China), which is

not allowed in CA advertising and others

might say TCMD. Neither of these is right

but until the profession wants to get an entry

level doctorate, we are fighting ourselves

and others will simply say that we have

bogus degrees.

 

" I do not understand why the board of Acupuncture

has done nothing against them. "

 

That would mean that the state laws provide for

this and many states do not. Education is very

lacking at a majority of the programs (US) because

the organizations that accredit it do not want

tough standards, many schools would be closed

down.

 

" I felt insulted when I applied for an Acupuncturist in a

hospital when someone asked me why not putting yourself as a doctor,

Ph.D or O.M.D ? "

 

The public, and many other practitioners, do not understand

that we, in the US, do not have entry level doctorates.

 

" I had attended a school for 2 years and I stopped, paid $12000,

becaused I found it was non-accredited, a crooked. All their teachings

were a joke. "

 

The fact that you quit after you found out says something of your

character. Congrats. In final passing, you should mention the names

of these diploma mills so that all of us can become educated on this

behavior. I would say that there might be someone on this list who

is unaware and interested in getting their doctorate. You could save

them some face and money.

 

Thanks for the dialogue.

 

Mike W. Bowser, L Ac

 

________

Discover the new Windows Vista

http://search.msn.com/results.aspx?q=windows+vista & mkt=en-US & form=QBRE

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

i was referring to statutory regulation and not regulation by

associations.

 

Attilio

www.chinesemedicinetimes.com

 

Chinese Medicine , Pete Theisen

<petetheisen wrote:

>

> On Sunday 25 February 2007 7:29 am, Pete Theisen wrote:

>

> Hi Everybody!

>

> Typo: It is DOM not OMD in Florida. Sorry for the mix-up.

>

> > On Sunday 25 February 2007 4:17 am, wrote:

> >

> > <snip>

> >

> > > Attilio: Again, dodgy schools can operate because there's no

> > > regulation. The answer is REGULATION, REGULATION, REGULATION.

> >

> > Hi Attilio!

> >

> > We have a lot of regulation in the US. Those who wish to go a

step beyond

> > what is allowed just do whatever they want and gain a competitive

> > advantage. The government never does anything unless they are WAY

out of

> > line.

> >

> > Every now and then they have a " crackdown " and fine a few of the

worst

> > offenders. They have to pay up and promise to never do it again.

Maybe get

> > their picture in the paper as well.

> >

> > He could come to Florida, get a Florida license and legally use

the title

> > OMD, Doctor of Oriental Medicine, AFTER his name. There are

people using

> > " Dr. " in front of their name but that is against the law unless

they

> > actually have a doctor's degree. Of course, some of these

doctorates are

> > Ph.D.s in anything but what they are actually doing.

>

> --

> Regards,

>

> Pete

> http://www.pete-theisen.com/

>

[Guest guest]

Dear Misha,

Please do not be offending, anybody! This is for a fair chance for

everyone. If I am offending anybody, please forgive me! I am ont

intending to.

What I am referring to a non-degree or a non-accredited professional

or school in U.S ? HOw can a non-accredited like us a Master Degree

can teach an offer a Ph.D or OMD?

I have looked in webs or online. THere is no accredited school for OMD

or PH.D........ If they are teaching, under what authorization of

giving out certification as OMD, Ph.D?

Ex: If I teach OMD and Ph.D and grant those certifications under any

named school. It is unconstitutional!

Some of us have those certifications and are proud of them! But they

are non-accredited in U.S. Some use their China's, but you can buy

your certifications here, why not in China???

 

It does not make sense!!!!!!!!!!

 

> WHAT DO THE INITIALS " O.M.D. " STAND FOR?

> A. The initials O.M.D. stand for " Oriental Medical Doctor " , this is

an academic title (similar to

> Ph.D.). This title may only be used by those licensed acupuncturists

who possess an earned

> doctorate degree, from a California accredited, approved and/or

authorized educational

> institute as set forth in Section 94760 of the California Education

Code. These initials must

> be used in conjunction with the representation that the individual

is a licensed acupuncturist

> as set forth in Business & Professions Code, Section 4927 and 4937,

the California Code of

> Regulations, Title 16, Section 1399.456, and Attorney General

Opinion No. 87-103.

> Yours, Misha

>

[Guest guest]

Chinese Medicine , acudoc11 wrote:

>

> Dear Misha,

 

We are healers, sounds like a superstition, a vodoo, a witch !!!

I am trying to get some of us into the hospitals and get recognized!

Anyone can claim him to be a healer. A healer does not to be certified

or be licensed........... Come on!!! Are we that garbage????

We never claimed we can cure a thing , but we can treat it. same as

Western Medicine , MDs, they never claimed cure, but treating!!!!!

 

Oh! Lord, give us equal opportunity!!!!!

 

Thanks to all and all of your concerns if we are in one agreement an

opinion.

 

We have very good chance to get in the medical system in CAM.

Think and work for it, all of us !!!!!!!!

 

 

 

 

 

>

> While you are correct for California........as so we are also

correct in

> other states such as NM, FL, RI, AR, WV, etc.....with our

differences and our

> similarities....we need to address yet another possibly more

important core

> issue.

>

> If we are diagnosing and treating illness and injury.........what

are we if

> not doctors/physicians?

>

> Then what shall we call ourselves?

>

> One Florida legislator possibly in jest or maybe seriously suggested

we call

> ourselves healers...... all the while remembering that it is

illegal to say

> that acupuncture/OM can cure anything.

>

> Richard

>

>

>

>

> <BR><BR><BR>**************************************<BR> AOL now

offers free

> email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at

> http://www.aol.com.

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

You're not going to get that kind of recognition until there is

statutory regulation. It's the same in the UK. However, the UK is

statutory regulating acupuncture, which means it will be a recognised

medical service, the title acupuncturist will be protected and you'll

get access to hospitals. Then education will be increased and

eventually doctorate programs introduced.

 

There is an interesting article coming up in CMT on statutory

regulation of acupuncture in the UK and the grand parenting scheme.

Watch out for it.

 

Attilio

www.chinesemedicinetimes.com

 

 

Chinese Medicine , " dr_namnguyen58 "

<dr_namnguyen58 wrote:

>

> Chinese Medicine , acudoc11@

wrote:

> >

> > Dear Misha,

>

> We are healers, sounds like a superstition, a vodoo, a witch !!!

> I am trying to get some of us into the hospitals and get recognized!

> Anyone can claim him to be a healer. A healer does not to be

certified

> or be licensed........... Come on!!! Are we that garbage????

> We never claimed we can cure a thing , but we can treat it. same as

> Western Medicine , MDs, they never claimed cure, but treating!!!!!

>

> Oh! Lord, give us equal opportunity!!!!!

>

> Thanks to all and all of your concerns if we are in one agreement an

> opinion.

>

> We have very good chance to get in the medical system in CAM.

> Think and work for it, all of us !!!!!!!!

>

>

>

>

>

> >

> > While you are correct for California........as so we are also

> correct in

> > other states such as NM, FL, RI, AR, WV, etc.....with our

> differences and our

> > similarities....we need to address yet another possibly more

> important core

> > issue.

> >

> > If we are diagnosing and treating illness and injury.........what

> are we if

> > not doctors/physicians?

> >

> > Then what shall we call ourselves?

> >

> > One Florida legislator possibly in jest or maybe seriously

suggested

> we call

> > ourselves healers...... all the while remembering that it is

> illegal to say

> > that acupuncture/OM can cure anything.

> >

> > Richard

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > <BR><BR><BR>**************************************<BR> AOL now

> offers free

> > email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at

> > http://www.aol.com.

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Can someone please explain what is meant by this?

 

" The profession might be held back to a great degree by the trade schools

which control the education but in key states they lost the battle on titles

versus more non-regionally-accredited trade school degrees. "

 

Examples would be great. Thanks

 

Mike W. Bowser, L Ac

 

________________________________

> Chinese Medicine

> acudoc11

> Sun, 25 Feb 2007 12:43:15 -0500

> Re: Dr. or Doctor title in ads, How can it be legal?

>

> In a message dated 02/25/07 12:32:04 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,

> alonmarcus writes:

> Until we have a regionally accredit Dr entry degrees none will really make

> any real difference regardless of their quality.

> If the private independent trade schools continue to market the

> non-regionally accredited degrees this will never be resolved.

> Since the political nature of this seems to be one big play obviously for

> many reasons, the words or letters or titles that are allowed vary state to

> state. The profession might be held back to a great degree by the trade

schools

> which control the education but in key states they lost the battle on titles

> versus more non-regionally-accredited trade school degrees.

> Richard

> ************************************** AOL now offers free

> email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at

> http://www.aol.com.

>

[Guest guest]

On Sunday 25 February 2007 1:37 pm, wrote:

 

 

Hi Attilio!

 

It is a statute, they are just lazy enforcing it.

 

> i was referring to statutory regulation and not regulation by

> associations.

--

Regards,

 

Pete

http://www.pete-theisen.com/