Ikeda Masakazu hara readings - LV yang def. cold

[Guest guest]

I was hoping that one of Ikeda sensei's students would be able to elaborate on

the LV yang deficiency pattern that we have been investigating for the

last couple of weeks.

 

I found this web page, which shows kampo hara diagrams (FukuSho) for

Ikeda Masakazu's diagnostic patterns.

Ikeda sensei has written over 20 books on acupuncture and herbology

based on close-readings of the classics.

 

The LV yang def. pattern is listed as " LV deficiency yang deficiency cold "

 

The points listed are:

" Liver Deficiency Yang Deficiency Cold -- Tonify: K3, LV3, SP1,

GB40, Do not disperse "

 

http://jabinet.net/fukusho.html

 

Here is a quote from his book translated into English copyright 2005

" The Practice of Japanese Acupuncture and Moxibustion:

Classical Principles in Action "

 

It supports Yehuda's hypothesis that LV yang def. cold is rooted in

blood deficiency:

 

pg. xxii: " Cold patterns related to blood deficiency

In this case the blood insufficiency is such that cold is produced,

resulting in a pattern of LV yang deficiency/ cold. However, since

the patient is still alive, some yang must still be present. This

small amount of heat collects in the chest, where it can continue to

accumulate. However, this buildup of heat is qualitatively different

from the heat seen in yin deficiency patterns, which must be kept in

mind when treating these patients. "

 

http://www.eastlandpress.com/upload/0-939616-4_pdf_excerpt_20050223161806_1/Iked\

a%20sample.pdf

 

If this pattern is different from the one(s) that have been quoted

previously from the group,

how so?

 

Thanks, k.

 

--

'Freedom from the desire for an answer is essential to the

understanding of a problem.'

 

Jiddu Krishnamurti

[Guest guest]

John,

Yang vacuity cold has another entirely different rationale in the

classical Chinese medical literature.

 

In the Shang Han Lun, Mitchell/Wiseman/Ye translation, pgl 188-9,

there is the following section (for gan cao gan jiang tang/licorice

and dried ginger decoction):

" Frequent urination indicates a pattern of vacuous yang unable to

contain the fluids (In a patient with) heart vexation and

hypertonicity of the feet, (this indicates) insufficiency of yin

humor. When yin humor is insufficient, it cannot nourish the heart

or moisten the sinews. One must support the yang. The yin need not

be treated, because once yang is restored, the fluids will be

contained and yin replenished. This reflects the principle that yang

is easier to treat than yin. When yang is secure, yin will be

preserved and when yang is engendered, yin will increase " .

 

I found this quite interesting, and decided to investigate this further.

 

There has been a stream of thought of supporting yang that has its

roots in the Yi Jing, basically that yin follows yang, and that yang

engenders yin through qi transformation. This stream of thought is

largely forgotten in modern TCM, which tends to be based on balancing

yin and yang. However, supporting yang approaches can be seen in the

work of Hua Tuo's Zhang Zang Jing/Classic of the Central Viscera, and

in various texts that emphasize the central position of mingmen huo/

lifegate fire, the root of all metabolisms and transformations.

 

To quote Lu Chonghan in an article translated by Kendra Dale,

 

" So what is the foundation of this principle

of supporting or lifting Yang qi in the body?

Essentially it is the concept that Yang is the

active principle and Yin is the passive principle,

or that Yin follows Yang. This simple statement

is in contrast to what a lot of modern textbooks

say about Yin-Yang theory. They emphasize

that Yin and Yang need to be in balance to

maintain health, and that, of the two, neither is

more dominant than the other. This has been

the standard education in Chinese medicine

for the past two decades and has been the

source of much bias and misunderstanding. "

 

It says in the Yi Jing that heaven, or yang is the source of all

manifestation, and all life is dependent on yang for its origin.

Yang is also identified with the sun, without which life on earth

(yin) cannot exist. This is the basis for the approach of using hot,

acrid medicinals such as fu zi/aconite and gan jiang/dried ginger to

supplement yang qi, which in turn can be utilized in certain patterns

to generate yin for the body.

 

Because of our lack of exposure to this principle in modern TCM,

these words may seem challenging or even outrageous. And, yes, there

are other schools that take the opposite approach, of nurturing yin

qi and blood. However, to have a broad understanding of Chinese

medicine, we must also examine the approach of supporting yang to

generate yin and blood.

 

Finally, there are patterns of liver qi and/or yang vacuity cold

listed in various texts, such as the

" Pathomechanisms of the Liver " text I mentioned last week. Chinese

medical dictionaries such as the Zhong yi da ci dian/Great dictionary

of lists liver qi vacuity and liver vacuity cold

patterns, which is the same as yang vacuity cold of the liver. The

" Practical Dictionary of " states under " gan han/

liver cold " " insufficiency of the yang qi of the liver causing

melancholy, lassitude, lack of stamina, lack of warmth in the limbs,

and a sunken slow fine pulse. "

 

The defense rests its case.

 

 

 

 

 

 

On Feb 26, 2007, at 9:47 PM, wrote:

 

> I was hoping that one of Ikeda sensei's students would be able to

> elaborate on

> the LV yang deficiency pattern that we have been investigating for the

> last couple of weeks.

>

> I found this web page, which shows kampo hara diagrams (FukuSho) for

> Ikeda Masakazu's diagnostic patterns.

> Ikeda sensei has written over 20 books on acupuncture and herbology

> based on close-readings of the classics.

>

> The LV yang def. pattern is listed as " LV deficiency yang

> deficiency cold "

>

> The points listed are:

> " Liver Deficiency Yang Deficiency Cold -- Tonify: K3, LV3, SP1,

> GB40, Do not disperse "

>

> http://jabinet.net/fukusho.html

>

> Here is a quote from his book translated into English copyright 2005

> " The Practice of Japanese Acupuncture and Moxibustion:

> Classical Principles in Action "

>

> It supports Yehuda's hypothesis that LV yang def. cold is rooted in

> blood deficiency:

>

> pg. xxii: " Cold patterns related to blood deficiency

> In this case the blood insufficiency is such that cold is produced,

> resulting in a pattern of LV yang deficiency/ cold. However, since

> the patient is still alive, some yang must still be present. This

> small amount of heat collects in the chest, where it can continue to

> accumulate. However, this buildup of heat is qualitatively different

> from the heat seen in yin deficiency patterns, which must be kept in

> mind when treating these patients. "

>

> http://www.eastlandpress.com/upload/

> 0-939616-4_pdf_excerpt_20050223161806_1/Ikeda%20sample.pdf

>

> If this pattern is different from the one(s) that have been quoted

> previously from the group,

> how so?

>

> Thanks, k.

>

> --

> 'Freedom from the desire for an answer is essential to the

> understanding of a problem.'

>

> Jiddu Krishnamurti

>

>

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Hi John,

 

I think I am supposed to answer your question, because I claimed

that I had been studying under Ikeda sensei, but unfortunately I

have been busy and haven't read any of those discussions. I checked

a couple of previous mail, talking about flavors, but couldn't go

thru all of them.

So far, the one you wrote here seems same as Ikeda sensei's Liv def/

yang deficiency/ cold pattern to me.

I hope you got an answer from what Z'ev wrote. If not, and do not

mind to write what was previously talked, I am happy to try to

answer your questiion.

Best Regards,

Ami Matsumoto, L.Ac.

 

 

 

Chinese Medicine , " "

<johnkokko wrote:

>

> I was hoping that one of Ikeda sensei's students would be able to

elaborate on

> the LV yang deficiency pattern that we have been investigating for

the

> last couple of weeks.

>

> I found this web page, which shows kampo hara diagrams (FukuSho)

for

> Ikeda Masakazu's diagnostic patterns.

> Ikeda sensei has written over 20 books on acupuncture and herbology

> based on close-readings of the classics.

>

> The LV yang def. pattern is listed as " LV deficiency yang

deficiency cold "

>

> The points listed are:

> " Liver Deficiency Yang Deficiency Cold -- Tonify: K3, LV3, SP1,

> GB40, Do not disperse "

>

> http://jabinet.net/fukusho.html

>

> Here is a quote from his book translated into English copyright

2005

> " The Practice of Japanese Acupuncture and Moxibustion:

> Classical Principles in Action "

>

> It supports Yehuda's hypothesis that LV yang def. cold is rooted in

> blood deficiency:

>

> pg. xxii: " Cold patterns related to blood deficiency

> In this case the blood insufficiency is such that cold is produced,

> resulting in a pattern of LV yang deficiency/ cold. However, since

> the patient is still alive, some yang must still be present. This

> small amount of heat collects in the chest, where it can continue

to

> accumulate. However, this buildup of heat is qualitatively

different

> from the heat seen in yin deficiency patterns, which must be kept

in

> mind when treating these patients. "

>

> http://www.eastlandpress.com/upload/0-939616-

4_pdf_excerpt_20050223161806_1/Ikeda%20sample.pdf

>

> If this pattern is different from the one(s) that have been quoted

> previously from the group,

> how so?

>

> Thanks, k.

>

> --

> 'Freedom from the desire for an answer is essential to the

> understanding of a problem.'

>

> Jiddu Krishnamurti

>

[Guest guest]

Mon, 26 Feb 2007 23:50:42 0800, " " <zrosenbe wrote:

 

>> However, supporting yang approaches can be seen in the work of

Hua Tuo's Zhang Zang Jing/Classic of the Central Viscera, and in

various texts that emphasize the central position of mingmen

huo/lifegate fire, the root of all metabolisms and transformations.

 

These are two distinct considerations of supporting yang, I would

suspect? Hua To's writing, if really dating from the late Han period,

would considerably predate the major development and emphasis on

mingmen theory in the late Song-Jin-Yuan, as I understand it. Unless

I miss something, I take it you're just mentioning two other approaches.

 

>>To quote Lu Chonghan in an article translated by Kendra Dale,

 

Z'ev, is this article published? I'm also writing an article about

yin-yang, along similar lines of countering aspects of the

modern/official interpretation and investigating a sampling of

diverging historical (and contemporary) perspectives. My research

also leads back to the YiJing, although I'm not using the particular

argument you cite. It's probably worth a reference.

 

 

 

 

--

 

 

Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 268.18.4/705 - Release 2/27/2007 3:24

PM

[Guest guest]

Hi John,

 

I am glad to know you are reading Ikeda sensei's book and hope you are

enjoying the book!

The book is very good in content and translation, translated by Edward

Obaidey sensei, who is one of the top students of Ikeda sensei.

However, there are some things you can't explain in books such as the

feeling when you see or hear by being there. When the first time I

saw Ikeda sensei's treatment, I was impressed by the rhythm and speed

of his needling and how graceful his hands moved. Every time I attend

Ikeda sensei' seminar, his subtle movements give me hints of how I can

improve my overall treatment. There are things you can't learn from

books. Our profession is an art which is passed on from person to

person. You may get there by yourself but it would take a lot longer.

Therefore, I wish you could be in the seminar. First time I attended

Ikeda sensei's seminar was on the Big Island, 1999. I came down from

Los Angeles to Big Island and yes, it was worth it. The meeting with

Ikeda sensei reminds me that the monkeys touch the stone and know

something( in the movie 2001 Space Odesey :-)).

BTW, please feel free to contact me if you have questions.

 

Ami Matsumoto, L.Ac.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Chinese Medicine , " amiacup "

<amiacup wrote:

>

> Hi John,

>

> I think I am supposed to answer your question, because I claimed

> that I had been studying under Ikeda sensei, but unfortunately I

> have been busy and haven't read any of those discussions. I checked

> a couple of previous mail, talking about flavors, but couldn't go

> thru all of them.

> So far, the one you wrote here seems same as Ikeda sensei's Liv def/

> yang deficiency/ cold pattern to me.

> I hope you got an answer from what Z'ev wrote. If not, and do not

> mind to write what was previously talked, I am happy to try to

> answer your questiion.

> Best Regards,

> Ami Matsumoto, L.Ac.

>

>

>

> Chinese Medicine , " "

> <johnkokko@> wrote:

> >

> > I was hoping that one of Ikeda sensei's students would be able to

> elaborate on

> > the LV yang deficiency pattern that we have been investigating for

> the

> > last couple of weeks.

> >

> > I found this web page, which shows kampo hara diagrams (FukuSho)

> for

> > Ikeda Masakazu's diagnostic patterns.

> > Ikeda sensei has written over 20 books on acupuncture and herbology

> > based on close-readings of the classics.

> >

> > The LV yang def. pattern is listed as " LV deficiency yang

> deficiency cold "

> >

> > The points listed are:

> > " Liver Deficiency Yang Deficiency Cold -- Tonify: K3, LV3, SP1,

> > GB40, Do not disperse "

> >

> > http://jabinet.net/fukusho.html

> >

> > Here is a quote from his book translated into English copyright

> 2005

> > " The Practice of Japanese Acupuncture and Moxibustion:

> > Classical Principles in Action "

> >

> > It supports Yehuda's hypothesis that LV yang def. cold is rooted in

> > blood deficiency:

> >

> > pg. xxii: " Cold patterns related to blood deficiency

> > In this case the blood insufficiency is such that cold is produced,

> > resulting in a pattern of LV yang deficiency/ cold. However, since

> > the patient is still alive, some yang must still be present. This

> > small amount of heat collects in the chest, where it can continue

> to

> > accumulate. However, this buildup of heat is qualitatively

> different

> > from the heat seen in yin deficiency patterns, which must be kept

> in

> > mind when treating these patients. "

> >

> > http://www.eastlandpress.com/upload/0-939616-

> 4_pdf_excerpt_20050223161806_1/Ikeda%20sample.pdf

> >

> > If this pattern is different from the one(s) that have been quoted

> > previously from the group,

> > how so?

> >

> > Thanks, k.

> >

> > --

> > 'Freedom from the desire for an answer is essential to the

> > understanding of a problem.'

> >

> > Jiddu Krishnamurti

> >

>