Guest guest Posted February 27, 2007 Report Share Posted February 27, 2007 Chinese Medicine , mike Bowser <naturaldoc1 wrote: > > Avery, I strongly support you and other Chiro that we are under your umbrellas. All of you, Chiro, are well known for doing fine jobs as Chiro. However, if a Chiro needs to practice in Acupuncture, he or she needs a formal training in Acu and herb and pass an exam to see if he or she is qualify in the job, instead of a few seminars I believe. I do not think a doctor can work on a computer as a progammer if he or she has no training or little training, or a cardiologist perfoms a neurologist performance... I think we are working together , not against each other. What do you think??? The reason is that some Acu believe that some Chiro had worked on patients as Acupuncturists and the result were not satisfied then the Chiro themselves will not believe in Acu either. They may bad talk about Acu. It hurts the fame of Acu............ If some Acupuncturists perfomed Chiro works and results were negative, do you think that those Acupuncturists will give their patients positive inputs and keep working on with Chiro performance? Just a thought........ However, we are working together , aren't we? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 28, 2007 Report Share Posted February 28, 2007 That's interesting, we will certify an MD to be a computer programmer as long as he/she gets 300 hrs. Some how they are eligible because they have knowledge of the body, to learn acupuncture quickly. I would trust a chiro performing acupuncture, long before I would an MD with that training. At least they are trained in alternative medicine. Avery, I am skeptical about the chiro with acupuncture. I see so many in my area (where they are not allowed to practice acupuncture) seeing 9 to 11 patients an hour. I can't believe they can devote the time to the patient or the study. Now there are exceptions to everything. I would like to find an acupuncturist in Williamsburg VA for an elderly family member. Go there guys, can't find anyone. Only the Chiropractors come up. If I could get a good recommendation on one, I would refer, but I would not just go into any office. Avery, I think you are an exception as you are wading through this listserve every day. That, in itself, says you are more interested than the average chiro. I also don't know how much extra training you have had, but my guess is you are learning on your own or with CEU's. Anne -------------- Original message ---------------------- " dr_namnguyen58 " <dr_namnguyen58 > Chinese Medicine , mike Bowser > <naturaldoc1 wrote: > > > > Avery, > I strongly support you and other Chiro that we are under your > umbrellas. All of you, Chiro, are well known for doing fine jobs as > Chiro. However, if a Chiro needs to practice in Acupuncture, he or she > needs a formal training in Acu and herb and pass an exam to see if he > or she is qualify in the job, instead of a few seminars I believe. > > I do not think a doctor can work on a computer as a progammer if he or > she has no training or little training, or a cardiologist perfoms a > neurologist performance... > > I think we are working together , not against each other. What do you > think??? > The reason is that some Acu believe that some Chiro had worked on > patients as Acupuncturists and the result were not satisfied then the > Chiro themselves will not believe in Acu either. They may bad talk > about Acu. It hurts the fame of Acu............ If some Acupuncturists > perfomed Chiro works and results were negative, do you think that > those Acupuncturists will give their patients positive inputs and keep > working on with Chiro performance? > > Just a thought........ However, we are working together , aren't we? > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 28, 2007 Report Share Posted February 28, 2007 Dear Anne, I do not care how Avery had his training of Acupuncture through seminars or formal. If he is gifted or believed in Acu puncture, let's welcome him into our home as a part of a family. We are in need to learn more about Chiro and blend that technology in our field to help our patients, the same as what we desired. There is one thing I should advise Avery, use Acupuncture points to treat some illnesses seems easy, but be a good acupuncturist is another. Our duties is to serve people who are in need of our services. If we do not have good intention in helping these patients, it is not working well for all of us in our profession. Let's do not divide among ourselves, but build a stronger team, as nowaday, called " re-engineer structure " . I will call it " re-chiracu structure " . I hope some days there will be a new license for all of us as a " Chiracu " as Avery has said we can learn and practice Chiro after 100hrs of training. Let have the open arms and welcome to Avery and other to joint us to build a stronger team. My real story here may help us to see how I dealed with difficult situation, but I made it. This happened just 2 days ago. My son is a student in Cal-State Long Beach for 3 years and he is thinking about a delay or quit school. He reasoned, " Dad, I do not think school is important. Everyone I know here is millionare and billionare Bill Bart in my job. They told me education is just a paper and it is worthess. My cousin also said so. He is going to get his M.D , but he said it is nothing just a paper. It won't help me at all. But you always overate the degree, certificates. Can you see a reality? I do not like school, but you make me... Why???????? Hey son, I love you more than anybody. All I see is difference from others. A degree brings you honor, prestige . It is a hard work. YOu have come a long way 15 years in school. There is only 2 more years to complete, then do whatever you feel like doing so after a degree is in your hand... Only 2 years, son!!! Those people without a degree, a successful businessman, or trademan can become successful, but that is a small number. We can not follow those advise. They are gifted. There are thousand of failures, only one success. I do not want you to be one of them. Education with degree will give you a lift whereever you want to work. You can be a manger, a supervisor, a leadman because of your wisdom, an honor......... Whoever told you a degree is worthless I disgrace him immediately. If Donald Trump, a millionare, without a degree, enlisted into a military, he should be a private, am I right??? And if I enlisted in an army, with a degree, I would be his officer. Whatever I said, will answer in YES , Do , he will do....... That is how important a degree it is...... In real life you do not see that but it is understood. Education is to help all of us to grow, not only for ourselves, but for our country. If we are all intelligence, brillance and full of wisdom, we are ready to be in the battle of business or in commerce with other countries not within ourselves. We must make our conutry grow, son. I am proud of education and I am proud of you!!!!!!!!!!!! Thanks all for my sample. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 28, 2007 Report Share Posted February 28, 2007 I am not sure why I was quoted as stating the following quote, this is not mine. Please properly identify this for the group as I do not believe that we work under any other profession and falsifying others statments is wrong ! Mike W. Bowser, L Ac ________________________________ > Chinese Medicine > dr_namnguyen58 > Tue, 27 Feb 2007 21:55:00 +0000 > Chiro vs Acu > > Chinese Medicine , mike Bowser > wrote: > > > > Avery, > I strongly support you and other Chiro that we are under your > umbrellas. All of you, Chiro, are well known for doing fine jobs as > Chiro. However, if a Chiro needs to practice in Acupuncture, he or she > needs a formal training in Acu and herb and pass an exam to see if he > or she is qualify in the job, instead of a few seminars I believe. > I do not think a doctor can work on a computer as a progammer if he or > she has no training or little training, or a cardiologist perfoms a > neurologist performance... > I think we are working together , not against each other. What do you > think??? > The reason is that some Acu believe that some Chiro had worked on > patients as Acupuncturists and the result were not satisfied then the > Chiro themselves will not believe in Acu either. They may bad talk > about Acu. It hurts the fame of Acu............ If some Acupuncturists > perfomed Chiro works and results were negative, do you think that > those Acupuncturists will give their patients positive inputs and keep > working on with Chiro performance? > Just a thought........ However, we are working together , aren't we? _______________ Connect to the next generation of MSN Messenger http://imagine-msn.com/messenger/launch80/default.aspx?locale=en-us & source=wlmai\ ltagline Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 28, 2007 Report Share Posted February 28, 2007 No one is falsifying anything. Examination of the quotes reveals that you have one chevron and the quote which seems to be yours has two chevrons. I don't know about you, but my mail does not do quoting well at all. Hugo _________ To help you stay safe and secure online, we've developed the all new Security Centre. http://uk.security. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 28, 2007 Report Share Posted February 28, 2007 No one is falsifying anything. Examination of the quotes reveals that you have one chevron and the quote which seems to be yours has two chevrons. I don't know about you, but my mail does not do quoting well at all. Hugo _________ The all-new Mail goes wherever you go - free your email address from your Internet provider. http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 28, 2007 Report Share Posted February 28, 2007 Not for nothing, but I didn't join this group to listen to a bunch of chiro-bashing. I joined to learn and share information about TCM. But it seems that about every other week, someone else on this list is taking a pot-shot at the chiros, or the MDs or the anybody-who-isn't-my-group. That's not what I'm about. So I'm going to say adios for now, and find a list where there's less backbiting and more debate on the health issues themselves. Avery On Wed, 28 Feb 2007 11:11:46 -0500, mike Bowser <naturaldoc1 wrote: > > I am not sure why I was quoted as stating the following quote, this is > not mine. > Please properly identify this for the group as I do not believe that we > work under > any other profession and falsifying others statments is wrong ! > > Mike W. Bowser, L Ac > > ________________________________ >> Chinese Medicine >> dr_namnguyen58 >> Tue, 27 Feb 2007 21:55:00 +0000 >> Chiro vs Acu >> >> Chinese Medicine , mike Bowser >> wrote: >> > >> > Avery, >> I strongly support you and other Chiro that we are under your >> umbrellas. All of you, Chiro, are well known for doing fine jobs as >> Chiro. However, if a Chiro needs to practice in Acupuncture, he or she >> needs a formal training in Acu and herb and pass an exam to see if he >> or she is qualify in the job, instead of a few seminars I believe. >> I do not think a doctor can work on a computer as a progammer if he or >> she has no training or little training, or a cardiologist perfoms a >> neurologist performance... >> I think we are working together , not against each other. What do you >> think??? >> The reason is that some Acu believe that some Chiro had worked on >> patients as Acupuncturists and the result were not satisfied then the >> Chiro themselves will not believe in Acu either. They may bad talk >> about Acu. It hurts the fame of Acu............ If some Acupuncturists >> perfomed Chiro works and results were negative, do you think that >> those Acupuncturists will give their patients positive inputs and keep >> working on with Chiro performance? >> Just a thought........ However, we are working together , aren't we? > > _______________ > Connect to the next generation of MSN Messenger > http://imagine-msn.com/messenger/launch80/default.aspx?locale=en-us & source=wlmai\ ltagline Avery L. Jenkins, DC, FIAMA, DACBN Chiropractic Physician Fellow, International Academy of Medical Acupuncturists Diplomate, American Clinical Board of Nutrition www.docaltmed.com -- -- E-MAIL CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE - This transmission may be: (1) subject to Physician-Patient confidentiality, or, (2) strictly confidential. If you are not the intended recipient of this message, you may not disclose, print, copy or disseminate this information under the Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act. If you have received this in error, please reply and notify the sender (only) and delete the message. Unauthorized interception of this e-mail is a violation of federal criminal law. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 28, 2007 Report Share Posted February 28, 2007 Hugo, Actually there was a big misquote as I can show that I did not agree with Dr. Averyon his post. I will post my rebuttal to him that I sent to the group as follows, " Avery, Thanks for your input but might I add that long before the DC colleges had any interest in Chinese medicine, the immigrants were practicing it. This is largely due to the largeAsian immigrant populations that has led to legislation in CA and also why there is a much more favorable atmosphere for it there. Let's not forget that the main issue brought up was illegal or false advertising or, ifyou will, misleading the public, and not about whether or not a chiro can performthis procedure. Several states have legislation that protects various titles underparticular rules of law. It does no professional any good when licensing boardsdo not perform their proper functions of enforcement but rather play politics. I happen to live in one such state where this has happened as well. A chirois a chiro, is a chiro and not an Licensed Acupuncturist. Now maybe yourstate legislation says something different but I doubt it. " Instead, here is what was posted and then given credit to me, " >> Chinese Medicine , mike Bowser>> wrote:>> >>> > Avery,>> I strongly support you and other Chiro that we are under your>> umbrellas. All of you, Chiro, are well known for doing fine jobs as>> Chiro. However, if a Chiro needs to practice in Acupuncture, he or she>> needs a formal training in Acu and herb and pass an exam to see if he>> or she is qualify in the job, instead of a few seminars I believe.>> I do not think a doctor can work on a computer as a progammer if he or>> she has no training or little training, or a cardiologist perfoms a>> neurologist performance... " As you can see there is no mention of just being or warm fuzzy but a mention of history of US, and CA, TCM in particular. Let's be truthful guys. So who was Dr Nam quoting?Mike W. Bowser, L Ac : subincor: Wed, 28 Feb 2007 17:38:09 +0000Re: Chiro vs Acu No one is falsifying anything. Examination of the quotes reveals that you have one chevron and the quote which seems to be yours has two chevrons. I don't know about you, but my mail does not do quoting well at all.Hugo________ The all-new Mail goes wherever you go - free your email address from your Internet provider. http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] _______________ Connect to the next generation of MSN Messenger http://imagine-msn.com/messenger/launch80/default.aspx?locale=en-us & source=wlmai\ ltagline Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 28, 2007 Report Share Posted February 28, 2007 Avery, Not sure where you get that idea from. Do you not think that proper training is essential to safe and efficacious treatment? The issue that we were, at least I was interested in discussing, was that of improper title usage and inaction by the licensing boards and how this can impact the public discussion of acupuncture. Somewhere we got derailed on that topic. Mike W. Bowser, L Ac http://imagine-msn.com/messenger/launch80/default.aspx?locale=en-us & source=wlmai\ ltagline Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 28, 2007 Report Share Posted February 28, 2007 Dr, Mike Browser, Please do not address me as a doctor. I am just an Acupuncturist. All controversy of Chiro vs Acu is my fault, getting all of us in a fight with Chiro. Please forgive for this initialization. My first intention was trying to gain a title " Dr. " fairly, nothing else in mind, and brought up with different aspects or conflicts with other un-medical fields involving in this issue. I am being ashamed of myself!!! Please do not get on each other, I beg. I will take all the blames and expressing my deep regret for my mis-behavior. I am the one to blame. All I am seeing we should forget all the battle and think about getting ourselves together to build a strong system of CAM " Complementary Alternative Medicine " for the benefit of our patients. We are here to learn from each other and share our experience or knowlege to others. Is that wonderful? If this is a site for the conflicts of interests, not edcuational exchanges. I am afraid I will have to leave this site. Hey, everybody, I am making mistakes too and a lot of mistakes to come, but I am learning and willing to correct my mistakes all the times. I hope everyone enjoying your sharing of wisdom. Good luck to all!! Sincerely, Nam Nguyen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 28, 2007 Report Share Posted February 28, 2007 People are addressing you as a doctor because the title is in your email address. If you do not want people to call you doctor, then remove 'dr' from your email address. Attilio www.chinesemedicinetimes.com > Please do not address me as a doctor. I am just an Acupuncturist. > > Sincerely, > Nam Nguyen > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 28, 2007 Report Share Posted February 28, 2007 > > Attilio, THe email address is for my patients when they are in needs of my help. While I am in a professional forum here, I just want to be a friend. Thanks for your comment! > www.chinesemedicinetimes.com > > > > Please do not address me as a doctor. I am just an Acupuncturist. > > > > Sincerely, > > Nam Nguyen > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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