Help With YL Product Please (2nd Try)

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 6/7/2004 11:14:43 AM Mountain Daylight Time,

herbandteas writes:

Well then she might as well go back to buying YL lavender. Its hard

sometimes to match a scent unless you know what it smells like.

Yep, then it's her loss for not wanting to try the other ones available. I

have tried lavenders from many sources including YL. I love the oils I get

from Butch and Marge. I know that I prefer them.

 

Most who get involved with YL don't know what they're missing. I have been

to their farm and watched the distilling and seen the fields.

I think YL does produce some good lavender from the acreage they have in

cultivation, but I am sure that's barely enough to keep GY and officers in their

own personal lavender stash. They would have you believe (from the

advertising) that all the oils come from the farms. (without actually stating

that, of

course) But, I know that would be impossible, given the amount they sell.

 

 

Judy Nelson

Dream Packer

**Aromatherapy Blends (Earth, Sky, Dream Weaves, Yummies and the newest

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[Guest guest]

Thanks for the info, more comments below:

 

--- Christa Maria <cmaria wrote:

> The proof in the pudding is a GC reading...

> Scent is not the overall judge of 'Best'

 

Again, that woman is NOT LOOKING FOR " BEST " . She is

looking for something that SMELLS EXACTLY LIKE YL's

Lavander.

 

> You need to educate this person, that any good

> chemist can alter a

> scent and not necessarily with chemical matter, but

> like most wines,

> use a mix to come up with something standard.

 

Again, my credibility with her is not at a level that

I can overcome the info from an elder of our

profession and she herself has much more experience in

our profession than I do. That doesn't mean that I

don't know more about AT-EO's )not our profession)

than she does, but it means she has no reason to

listen to me in her own mind, and therefore I cannot

hope to educate her at this point. My best hope of

making a difference to her patients through her is to

find something that is of therapeutic grade and that

SMELLS EXACTLY LIKE YL's Lavender.

 

> Butch should be able to shed more light on this..

 

Thanks, for this info, but again, *I* know all this.

I have to build my credibility with her by finding the

one thing she has been unable to find. And then

slowly to introduce her to the rest of the story.

 

Christina

 

> C-M

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks Butch, more below (much snipped):

 

--- Butch Owen <butchbsi wrote:

 

> Contradiction in terms here .. " quality " and " YL " ..

> ;-)

 

Oh, yes, I know that!

 

>

> Basically .. she like the odor of the YL Lavender ..

> and we will

> assume that it is Lavandula angustifolia ..

 

Yes and yes.

 

 

but it

> would also be

> necessary to know the Origin.

 

I know, it didn't say as you can imagine.

 

> Good that is that she

> likes it but

> is that reason enough for her to stick with all

> their products ..

 

Apparently.

 

> and more importantly, their ridiculous prices?

 

I didn't go there as I was way-laid but that

interjection by our teacher.

 

> Christina .. if that lady has stuck with them for

> years and finds

> the same odor in their lavender year after year ..

> you might wanna

> remind her that the Great Everywhere Spirit does not

> allow the same

> growing conditions each year .. all kinds of

> variables there are and

> there will be detectable differences in odor (to

> trained noses) from

> year to year .. unless .. the oil is being

> manipulated to ensure the

> same amount of Linalool and Linalool acetate each

> year .. which would

> not be a surprise.

 

Oooooo, very good idea! I will do that.

 

>

> And .. if she wants to find one that is darn near

> the same as the one

> she is getting now .. she has to get a copy of the

> GC or GC/MS for

> that oil .. then folks can check out the percentage

> of the chemical

> components. When you suggest this to her .. she

> will also learn

> something else about YL .. they ain't gonna give her

> no stinking

> analysis test. ;-)

 

I bet. I will suggest it and see if she goes for it.

Is it fair to say that other reputable supplier WILL

furnish their GC's?

 

> Olfactory memory, olfactory expectation and

> olfactory interpretation are

> as individual as determinations of beauty or taste

> in foods. When we're

> dealing with EO we should not expect an adulterated

> EO to smell bad ..

> the reasons for adulteration are to (1) stretch the

> oil and make it more

> marketable .. and (2) to improve the odor. All oils

> all the time will

> not have nice odors .. though we expect L.

> angustifolia to have one.

 

All good points to bring up.

 

>

> But .. I can prove the quality and purity of mine

> with more than words.

> And .. she should maybe consider asking YL to do the

> same for theirs.

> Unless .. she is not concerned with quality or

> purity .. but only with

> odor. Then I might suggest some Fragrance Oils that

> smell even nicer.

 

I think that if I can spend some time with her, that I

can get her to understand that scent is not the

determinate of quality or purity or even therapeutic

efficacy.

 

>

> But .. I didn't stop trying to get folks to wake up,

> smell the coffee

> and make decisions for themselves based on review of

> information about

> the YL organization .. and below is some you might

> want to pass on ..

>

> http://TheGuideToAromatherapy.com/ylfiles.html

>

> http://www.quackwatch.org/11Ind/young.html

 

Isn't this particular citation a case of Even a Blind

Pig finds an Acorn occasionally??? (Aren't these the

folks that have always gone after all alternaive

healthcare modalities? If so, I think this

organization just lost a huge suit and was assessed

with huge legal fees as a consequence in CA recently

and therefore is defunct now. Just FYI.)

 

 

[snipped the rest of the fine links]

 

> > Don't get me wrong, I know what *I* like and I

> know who the good

> > suppliers are, and where *I* would buy products,

> but what I NEED

> > to know is how to describe YL's lavender to find

> her as close to

> > exact a match as possible in order to get her to

> switch companies

> > so her patients are not exposed to those

> questionable products

> > everyday.

>

> Admirable is your task .. but an analysis is the

> only solution.

 

Well I do try in my own little way to add authenticity

to our alternative medicine community.

 

>

> > Consequently, also, the recommended product must

> be therapeutic grade,

>

> There is no such animal in existence ..

 

Well there's reasonable purity and there's

unadulterated oils...

 

> > and not and an adulterated product as was

> previously suggested as

> > this is to be used in a professional practice.

>

> Hawhawhaw .. how does she know she is not using such

> a product now?

 

Possibly not, but I am trying the honey vs vinager (as

in " If you use YL oils you're too dumb to live and

you're a danger to your patients... " ) approach. I

think I'll have better success don't you think? ;-)

 

> That respected elder of Traditional

> is probably as

> incapable of determining quality as she is .. maybe

> he too is going by

> whether or not an oil strikes his olfactory fancy.

 

I doubt he would admit it. And we're TCM NOT AT much

as he might like to think he's an expert at

everything. (And not to mislead this was not an AT

seminar, but rather a conversation I had at a break.)

 

 

> But .. maybe the

> URLs I presented above will also shed some light on

> YL.

 

Maybe, I will send them to him too.

 

> > If anyone can help me with this I would greatly

> appreciate it

> > and thank you in advance.

>

> I hope I have been of some assistance .. and welcome

> you are. In fact,

> why don't you just pass my post to her .. clip out

> your words if you

> want to .. then if she gets up tight its just with

> me.

 

I may just do that. Thanks for the permission in

advance. And of course thanks for the info and time.

 

Christina, L.Ac.

 

 

 

 

 

 

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[Guest guest]

Well then she might as well go back to buying YL lavender. Its hard

sometimes to match a scent unless you know what it smells like.

 

 

 

Herbal hugs, Helaine

Herbal teas and more!

www.misshelaineous.com

 

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[Guest guest]

What does YL add to the oils so that so many people claim they've

never smelled such wonderful oils? Reminds me of a lawsuit (I think

in NC?) against a tobacco company adding addictive chemicals to

their products. My old friend told me that the brand he was smoking

smelled like brandy when opening the box, and he thought that's how

the brand gets loyal customers. I wonder if that's what YL's doing.

 

Akiko

[Guest guest]

Helaine Mottershead wrote:

 

> Well then she might as well go back to buying YL lavender. Its

hard sometimes to match a scent unless you know what it smells like.

>

 

Right.. And I don't think that too many of us here are going to line

any YL coffers to get any to try.

 

Heehee

Graham Sorenson

http://TheGuideToAromatherapy.com - http://Luna-Aromatics.com

The home of " Arizona Balm " Ths Natural Solution to Dry Problem Skin

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[Guest guest]

 

 

 

Herbal hugs, Helaine

Herbal teas and more!

www.misshelaineous.com

 

_______________

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[Guest guest]

Hi Christina,

 

(Snipped a bit I did)

 

> I need to find a quality product that smells as close as possible

> (exact would be best) to the YL Lavender

 

Contradiction in terms here .. " quality " and " YL " .. ;-)

 

> as she did not say she wanted the " best " , she said that she

> had searched for years and could not find one that " smelled

> as good " as YL's and that is why she stayed with YL products

 

(Snip)

 

Basically .. she like the odor of the YL Lavender .. and we will

assume that it is Lavandula angustifolia .. but it would also be

necessary to know the Origin. Good that is that she likes it but

is that reason enough for her to stick with all their products ..

and more importantly, their ridiculous prices?

 

> As I know this list would like to see the profession of AT head

> in a direction of increased professionalism and responsibility

> and away from hucksters such as GY/YL .

 

That's a two fold mission .. getting folks away from hucksters and

con artists like Mr. Gary Young is one mission .. figuring out how

to get professionalism into the cottage industry of AT is another.

Not trying to be a smart aleck at all .. but Gary Young is not the

only slickster out and about .. its just that he is such a friggin

pathological liar and teaches unsafe practices .. that's the thing.

 

> I had hoped someone would be familiar enough with one of their

> main products to recommend a similar smelling substitute.

 

Christina .. if that lady has stuck with them for years and finds

the same odor in their lavender year after year .. you might wanna

remind her that the Great Everywhere Spirit does not allow the same

growing conditions each year .. all kinds of variables there are and

there will be detectable differences in odor (to trained noses) from

year to year .. unless .. the oil is being manipulated to ensure the

same amount of Linalool and Linalool acetate each year .. which would

not be a surprise.

 

And .. if she wants to find one that is darn near the same as the one

she is getting now .. she has to get a copy of the GC or GC/MS for

that oil .. then folks can check out the percentage of the chemical

components. When you suggest this to her .. she will also learn

something else about YL .. they ain't gonna give her no stinking

analysis test. ;-)

 

> This woman while nice enough, is a new acquaintance in my broad

> profession of Traditional (yes, she is a

> professional, licensed healthcare worker using this and other

> YL products in her practice everyday), but not my sister or my

> best friend. And frankly, I am not enough educated enough in

> AT/EO's to adequately differentiate one to another so for me to

> say to her " say, here's a really great product--MUCH BETTER than

> YL's... " really will carry no weight as it's her perception of

> the smell of YL's lavender that that is the locus of this problem.

 

In addition to the above .. couple of other things I'll mention.

 

Long ago I stopped trying to sway folks away from YL based on their

interpretation of quality .. which was based on smell. More than one

good person on this list has asked me to explain why my this and that

oil was different than YL's .. and there is no plausible explanation.

 

Olfactory memory, olfactory expectation and olfactory interpretation are

as individual as determinations of beauty or taste in foods. When we're

dealing with EO we should not expect an adulterated EO to smell bad ..

the reasons for adulteration are to (1) stretch the oil and make it more

marketable .. and (2) to improve the odor. All oils all the time will

not have nice odors .. though we expect L. angustifolia to have one.

 

But .. I can prove the quality and purity of mine with more than words.

And .. she should maybe consider asking YL to do the same for theirs.

Unless .. she is not concerned with quality or purity .. but only with

odor. Then I might suggest some Fragrance Oils that smell even nicer.

 

But .. I didn't stop trying to get folks to wake up, smell the coffee

and make decisions for themselves based on review of information about

the YL organization .. and below is some you might want to pass on ..

 

http://TheGuideToAromatherapy.com/ylfiles.html

 

http://www.quackwatch.org/11Ind/young.html

 

http://www.aromaticsage.com/GYRDT.html

 

http://www.aromaticsage.com/RDT.html

 

http://www.aromaticsage.com/CO.htm

Article on a cat with a tumor, the only thing new in his life? Massive

amounts of YL oils

 

http://www.aromaticsage.com/lima.html

Breaking the Silence... Gary Young's beginnings

 

http://www.woobeyworld.com/AA-7.htm

Analysis of Raindrop Technique by Lynda and Graham Sorenson:

 

http://www.woobeyworld.com/AA-4.htm

In the beginning... how RDT got started

 

I can't get the last two .. on WoobyWorld .. to open. Kathleen .. are

you aware of this?

 

Anyway .. if the above does not help then the only hope is if she can

get a copy of the analysis cause like I said, olfactory interpretation

is different from folks to folks.

 

> Don't get me wrong, I know what *I* like and I know who the good

> suppliers are, and where *I* would buy products, but what I NEED

> to know is how to describe YL's lavender to find her as close to

> exact a match as possible in order to get her to switch companies

> so her patients are not exposed to those questionable products

> everyday.

 

Admirable is your task .. but an analysis is the only solution.

 

> Consequently, also, the recommended product must be therapeutic grade,

 

There is no such animal in existence .. except in the hearts and minds

of YL followers and some other folks who use the term without knowing

why they are using it. Nobody (including chemists) knows what

therapeutic grade is and its not a common grade for an essential oil.

More on that later with a different post .. with this title.

 

> and not and an adulterated product as was previously suggested as

> this is to be used in a professional practice.

 

Hawhawhaw .. how does she know she is not using such a product now?

 

> And just as an aside here, that she is willing to switch at all is

> remarkable as the seminar presenter and a respected elder of our

> profession interjected into our conversation " it's true that GY is an

> (fill in the blank), but thier products are superior... " , so for me

> to just say " try this it's better " obviously won't work as it's NOT

> at all obvious to her.

 

That respected elder of Traditional is probably as

incapable of determining quality as she is .. maybe he too is going by

whether or not an oil strikes his olfactory fancy. But .. maybe the

URLs I presented above will also shed some light on YL.

 

> I had hoped one of the vocal debunkers of YL on this list might

> be familiar enough with their lavender to already know the answer

> to this question as I suspect that their lavender is their largest

> selling product and I know it comes in the beginner's kits.

 

Maybe .. and good luck. I think their best selling product would be the

one Mr. Gary Young or Jim Lynn hypes for a particular week .. when they

are overstocked with an oil they are going to reach out and touch folks

with some Biblical passage and claim that if they want to be like Jesus

or Mary .. or want to live 140 years of so they need to get this oil.

 

> If anyone can help me with this I would greatly appreciate it

> and thank you in advance.

 

I hope I have been of some assistance .. and welcome you are. In fact,

why don't you just pass my post to her .. clip out your words if you

want to .. then if she gets up tight its just with me. YL is already up

tight with me so adding a bit more fuel to the fire suits me fine. :-)

 

> Christina, L.Ac.

 

Y'all keep smiling. :-) Butch http://www.AV-AT.com

 

> --- Debra McDuffee <deb wrote:

>

>>I have no idea what the YL stuff smells like, but Butch's French high

>>alt. lavender is my favorite! It is far superior to anything I have

>>smelled, and that is many, many lavenders.

[Guest guest]

go with Butch as he has not monetary gain to be made on

the deal..he just has goodstuff and cares about his

quality. there are other people that are concerned about

quality such as Natures Gift(many lavendars, including

HIgg alt. among them) , Sunrose (wonderful lavender

absolute), and others...check out on

aromatherapy and join a few to learn things..and deside

for your self what you like and do not like.Mellie

 

> I need to find a quality product that smells as close

> as possible (exact would be best) to the YL Lavender

> as she did not say she wanted the " best " , she said

> that she had searched for years and could not find one

> that " smelled as good " as YL's and that is why she

> stayed with YL products (and some protocols although

> she does not do RT neat, fortunately).

>

> As I know this list would like to see the profession

> of AT head in a direction of increased professionalism

> and responsibility and away from hucksters such as

> GY/YL, I had hoped someone would be familiar enough

> with one of their main products to recommend a similar

> smelling substitute. This woman while nice enough, is

> a new acquaintance in my broad profession of

> Traditional (yes, she is a

> professional, licensed healthcare worker using this

> and other YL products in her practice everyday), but

> not my sister or my best friend. And frankly, I am

> not enough educated enough in AT/EO's to adequately

> differentiate one to another so for me to say to her

> " say, here's a really great product--MUCH BETTER than

> YL's... " really will carry no weight as it's her

> perception of the smell of YL's lavender that that is

> the locus of this problem.

>

> Don't get me wrong, I know what *I* like and I know

> who the good suppliers are, and where *I* would buy

> products, but what I NEED to know is how to describe

> YL's lavender to find her as close to exact a match as

> possible in order to get her to switch companies so

> her patients are not exposed to those questionable

> products everyday. Consequently, also, the

> recommended product must be therapeutic grade, and not

> an adulterated product as was previously suggested as

> this is to be used in a professional practice.

>

> And just as an aside here, that she is willing to

> switch at all is remarkable as the seminar presenter

> and a respected elder of our profession interjected

> into our conversation " it's true that GY is an (fill

> in the blank), but thier products are superior... " , so

> for me to just say " try this it's better " obviously

> won't work as it's NOT at all obvious to her.

>

> I had hoped one of the vocal debunkers of YL on this

> list might be familiar enough with their lavender to

> already know the answer to this question as I suspect

> that their lavender is their largest selling product

> and I know it comes in the beginner's kits.

>

> If anyone can help me with this I would greatly

> appreciate it and thank you in advance.

>

> Christina, L.Ac.

>

>

>

> --- Debra McDuffee <deb wrote:

> > I have no idea what the YL stuff smells like, but

> > Butch's French high alt.

> > lavender is my favorite! It is far superior to

> > anything I have smelled, and

> > that is many, many lavenders.

>

>

[Guest guest]

, " Misty Ball " <Meball@t...>

wrote:

> go with Butch as he has not monetary gain to be made on

> the deal..he just has goodstuff and cares about his

> quality. there are other people that are concerned about

> quality such as Natures Gift(many lavendars, including

> HIgg alt. among them) , Sunrose (wonderful lavender

> absolute), and others...check out on

> aromatherapy and join a few to learn things..and deside

> for your self what you like and do not like.Mellie

 

 

And the list mom at A Little Ol'Factory (don't forget about me too!

 

*Wink*

Chris (list mom)

http://www.alittleolfactory.com

[Guest guest]

Thanks for the input Misty, a few comments below:

 

--- Misty Ball <Meball wrote:

> go with Butch as he has not monetary gain to be

> made on

> the deal..he just has goodstuff and cares about his

> quality.

 

My post and the resultant thread was not about quality

of oils, per se. And it was not about finding one *I*

liked. It was about finding something that smelled as

" good " and/or as *close as possible* to YL's lavender

to get a practitioner of TCM to switch brands from YL

to one of good and known quality. At a seminar, she

had commented to me she had never been able to find

one that " smelled as good " as YL's even after

searching for years.

 

> there are other people that are concerned

> about

> quality such as Natures Gift(many lavendars,

> including

> HIgg alt. among them) , Sunrose (wonderful lavender

> absolute), and others...check out on

> aromatherapy and join a few to learn things..and

> deside

> for your self what you like and do not like.Mellie

 

It was also not about what I like and do not like,

that's easy and I have no problems determining that,

it was about finding something that this fellow

practitioner would accept as a replacement for YL's

lavender as she said that was all that was keeping her

using YL oils in her practice.

 

Marge Clark was generous enough (Thanks, Marge!) to

send me a fist full of samples that we will sit down

with whenever she and I can mesh our schedules. I

have dubbed it the " The Great Smell-off " and will

report the results back to the list. Because of

further great suggestions from this wonderful list, I

have paper strips to put the various oils on, the

strips will be numbered so as to eliminate all

possibilities of preconceived notions, and we will use

coffee beans between oils, to " refresh the palate " .

 

Meanwhile, I have this little padded envelope sitting

on a shelf in my office that wafts puffs of the most

delightful lavender out into the room... can't imagine

why I am not more motivated to get our schedules in

sync! LOL! (She lives about 70 miles away.)

 

Christina

 

> > I need to find a quality product that smells as

> close

> > as possible (exact would be best) to the YL

> Lavender

> > as she did not say she wanted the " best " , she said

> > that she had searched for years and could not find

> one

> > that " smelled as good " as YL's and that is why she

> > stayed with YL products (and some protocols

> although

> > she does not do RT neat, fortunately).[snip

[Guest guest]

Yeah....

We should not forget our list Mom and her 'little ol'factory'

Just because we mainly know her as our list mom and she is too shy to

toot her horn we should remember she also sells oils !

C-M