Guest guest Posted July 5, 2004 Report Share Posted July 5, 2004 Hi Christa Maria .. and other good folks. > Thanks Butch. My pleasure it is. :-) Someone sent me a post that is said to have been sent to Ann Landers some years back .. that contradicts some of the minor details of the later lives of some of those mentioned in my post, and maybe they are right .. I don't have time to research it all now and even if they are right the corrections are cosmetic at best. In truth, there were something like 103 signers of the Declaration of Independence. But it did get this ol' Kuntry Boy to thinking .. I thought a lot about the character of the people who struggled for our Freedom back then. And your post has given me opportunity to bore some folks on the list with some of my thoughts. I am not calling this post OT since Freedom and Independence allow this and other lists on the Net to exist anyway so its certainly pertinent in this case. :-) > I did not read this information before and yes, it does mean a lot to > me. those guys where gutsy and heroic. True it is. In fact .. had we lost the war they would all have been (and rightfully so) tried and convicted and executed as Traitors to the Crown .. that was their greatest gamble since dying is not as bad as is being remembered in disgrace. George Washington, for example, was a Colonel in the King's Army. And .. he was the Greatest Patriot of them all. Today, some folks give little thought to him .. except to his face printed on currency. But that is the way it goes .. God and the Soldier are only remembered in time of war .. only in times of real and present danger .. which is interpreted to mean RIGHT NOW .. not TOMORROW! But in fact it was not just guys (that .. men) who volunteered to go in harm's way during the American Revolution. Patriotism is not legislated by Congress or interpreted by judges .. and equality was but a matter of personal choice. http://userpages.aug.com/captbarb/femvets.html And it was not just White men and White women who went in harm's way. http://docsouth.unc.edu/nell/nell.html The greatest prize the American Revolutionaries could hope to win was, at best, hypothetical, because the " experiment " with self-rule was the first one ever in history .. nobody had an idea if or how it could work but they had the commitment to give it a try even at the risk of losing their own lives. And .. after years and years of trying (often with major setbacks .. like a Civil War) we found out that it could .. and did work. But we must not forget those setbacks. > We have to thank them much for their wisdom and foresight. > C-M Yes ma'am .. we certainly do. But there were times they could barely muster a 50% approval rating had Gallop Polls been in existence. Those Colonials who were not destitute and had not traveled to America to escape debtor's prisons and such were fat and happy and satisfied with their lives .. they didn't want to see any wild Revolutionaries rocking the boat. They would have been described as the Conservatives of the day .. our Founding Fathers would have been described as the Liberals. Times have certainly changed .. huh? :-( And lucky the Founding Fathers were that the Media was on their side. Its hard to fight the media .. hard to defend oneself from the written word after it has been read. Lucky they were that Samuel Adams began the fight long before the Founding Fathers got into action .. it was his newspaper that kept the fires of Liberty burning. Some folks remember him only because his name is on a famous beer now but they aren't sure why it's there. We can also thank many heroic people from distant lands who voluntarily came to support of the American Patriots during their idealistic, but foolish, attempt to create something the world had never seen or even given a thought to. The idea of self-rule was a ridiculous. It has always been true that government's have motives that are self serving. And this is not bad .. its the duty of leaders to care for their own people. The French had long hated the British so their motives for supporting American fighting against the Crown were far from being altruistic or noble .. and the crisis of the Revolution had long passed before they came on board .. countries don't like to support a losing cause .. this is important to remember .. now and in the future. France was probably the most " ruled " country in Europe at the time and their decision to support the Americans was based on their desire to cripple their biggest enemy .. an enemy that had robbed France of her own dominion in the New World .. England. But many French citizens were fired up by political writings of folks like Voltaire and Rousseau, Montesquieu and Turgot, and this spirit later carried them forward into their own Revolution. Matters not why the individuals were motivated .. we still owe them. You, as a German American, and Anne Charlet, as an American married to a Frenchman and living in France, and all the folks of Polish and Spanish origin on this list can be proud of the accomplishments of many from your birth place or that of your forefathers. This also includes those from the UK .. for it was British subjects that fought King George. Some of those who traveled to the New World to assist were .. The Marquis de La Fayette (Gilbert du Mottier), a young Frenchman who was really an American Hero. He rose to the well deserved rank of Major General during the American Revolution. After the Revolution La Fayette returned to France and wrote, " The Declaration of the Rights of Man and of the Citizen. " There is not enough room on our hard drives for me to cover all the exploits and accomplishments of this young gentleman. Marshall Bernardo de Gálvez of Spain (who I believe would roll over in his grave now if he knew of the latest Spanish capitulation to Terrorist demands). Colonel Thaddeus Kosciuszko .. from Poland .. an engineer with a skilled eye for fortifications that amazed many professionals. After the American Revolution he went on to assist some other nations in their struggles. (I'll mention that some of the Americans also did this .. to include Thomas Paine, a signer of the Declaration of Independence .. who participated in the French Revolution. Also, many Americans fought with the British RAF prior to America entering WW II .. and Americans fought with the Chinese Air Force as well.) Brigadier General Casimir Pulaski .. also Polish. As a Suthran Boy I knew much about him before I was out of knee britches. Pulaski joined the American Revolution in 1777 .. he was at Valley Forge, and fought at Brandywine and Germantown. He suffered mortal injuries during a heroic charge in the Siege of Savannah, GA and then died two days later, on 11 October 1779, which is now set aside by the U.S. Congress as Pulaski Day. There are many towns and counties in the Southeast USA named after General Casimir Pulaski. General (Baron) Johann (de) Kalb .. he was a German by birth and also a Brigadier General in the French Army. While riding with the militia of General Gates they came upon a British force of thousands. The militia fled .. but in an attempt to display leadership that would rally those men the Baron drew his sword and led a couple of hundred Continentals against them. In the ensuing battle he received 11 bayonet wounds and fell from his horse. His aid-de-camp, Chevalier de Buysson, of the French Army, rushed through the clashing bayonets, and stretching his arms over the body of the fallen hero, exclaimed, " Save the Baron de Kalb! " And though it did rally some of those who had fled, it was too late for the Baron. A kindly British officer stopped his troops from destroying the Baron but he still died after a few hours. (And I will mention that not only were many British officers fighting battles that were against their own hearts .. its also a fact that many in the royal court of Fat German Farmer King George were against the unfair actions taken against their own citizens in the New World.) To the British officer who assisted him, he replied, " I thank you for your generous sympathy, but I die the death I always prayed for; the death of a soldier fighting for the rights of man. " His last moments were spent in dictating a letter concerning the Continental troops which supported him in the action, after the militia had fled, of whom he said he had no words that could sufficiently express his love and admiration of their valor. General Friedrich Wilhelm Ludolf Gerhard Augustin (von) Steuben .. also a Prussian, was the Inspector General and later the drillmaster of the American army at Valley Forge. He provided the essential elements of discipline and confidence to the struggling young army .. elements that were lacking prior to his arrival. Baron von Steuben was not a baron and the " von " was realy not part of his birthname. But who cares? Young Baron de Carendeffez .. another Prussian .. age 15 .. who, at the Battle of York was sent into a powder magazine to distribute ammunition to the artillery. When the magazine came under direct bombardment all of the soldiers ran for cover .. but the young Baron stayed at his duty station. When his commander asked him, " You young rogue, why did you not fly the impending danger? Why not embrace a chance of life? " The young baron then replied, " Because, captain, my duty required that I should make a distribution of ammunition, and not desert my post, and fly like a poltroon. " (It is difficult for some civilians to understand the mentality of some soldiers when it comes to DUTY. Death before Dishonor is not just a common tattoo .. its a mentality!) There were many other foreign soldiers and professional adventurers who assisted us but I need to keep this down to less than 15 pages or so. ;-) The spirit of the Revolutionary soldiers is something that must be touched on .. they were willing to suffer extreme hardships for what they truly believed in .. which is not different from the attitude of the average soldier today. An example in history .. " A British officer was sent from the garrison at Georgetown to negotiate a business interesting to both armies; when this was concluded and the officer was about to return, General Marion said, " If it suits your convenience, sir, to remain for a short period, I shall be glad of your company to dinner. " The mild and dignified simplicity of Marion's manners had already produced their effect; and to prolong so interesting an interview, the invitation was accepted. The entertainment was served up on pieces of bark, and consisted entirely of roasted potatoes, of which the general ate heartily, requesting his guest to profit by his example, repeating the old adage, " that hunger was an excellent sauce. " " But surely, general, " said the officer, " this can not be your ordinary fare. " " Indeed it is, sir, he replied; " and we are more fortunate on this occasion, entertaining company, than usual, to have more than our accustomed quantity. " It is said that this officer, on his return to Georgetown, immediately declared his conviction, that men who could without a murmur endure the difficulties and dangers of the field, and contentedly relish such simple and scanty fare, were not to be subdued; and resigning his commission, immediately retired from the service. And .. as for religious beliefs .. I will mention that George Washington was a pious man .. normal it was for his troops to see him heading out to the woods to talk to his Commander and request guidance. His actions raised the morale of his troops .. and morale was needed at a time when one was lucky to have a potato for dinner and a rag to wrap one's feet. Religious conviction is a good thing methinks .. if not badly displaced. Better it is to follow a leader who needs spiritual guidance than it is to follow one who thinks they they have all the answers .. but really have NONE! Trivia for those who might not be aware, George Washington's death was due to a streptococcal infection that spread to the larynx, and enlarged his epiglottis to the point that he couldn't swallow and could barely breathe. He died from suffocation. Its unanimously agreed by medical authorities today that a tracheotomy would have saved his life. Thomas Jefferson, the drafter of the Declaration of Independence, once wrote that this document " towers aloft as the signal of arousing men to burst the chains...to assume the blessings and security of self-government " and to restore " the free right to the unbounded exercise of reason and freedom of opinion. " We should remember those words because they also apply to other nations that have the need to break their chains and to experience the freedom and security of self-government. No country practices perfect politics .. but it can be said that the American experience was prominent in convincing many countries to break their chains .. some through revolution and some through evolution. Its not easy .. especially when citizens have never ever known the meaning of freedom .. and its not inexpensive .. it costs money .. and blood. America .. regardless of who likes us or not today (I believe those who oppose our actions in Iraq and Afghanistan do so for reasons that are not altruistic or noble .. and those reasons will not be dealt with by historians in that manner) was the example and the model for emerging nations and is still the example of a dream that many who still live under tyrants hold onto .. with some hope. If one lives in a country outside the USA (as I do) they can watch the lines of folks outside each of the embassies on Embassy Row .. and see which of the lines is the longest. There has always been some economic and political interest in even the most noble causes .. and it will always be so. But just as it was not important why the French government and their citizens helped us .. it is not important why we help others. As I wrote above, failure does not endear a nation to anyone .. but success does. America has a great obligation to be successful because we are the world's only Super Power. We did NOT assign that designation to America .. it was given to America by the Media! America entered World Wars I and II and Korea for noble reasons .. and there were some economic and political variables at play. We helped win the first two wars .. and saved South Korea in the third one. We went to Vietnam for similar reasons .. fighting against Communism was seen to be a noble reason .. I believed it then and I still believe it was. But later we got wrapped around the political axle and cross wired with the Media. Militarily, we won the war .. politically we lost the war. Our withdrawal gained nothing for the Vietnamese people .. or for the USA .. or the Free World. But we learned little at the time because we later repeated our actions in Somalia. Withdrawal from Vietnam and later from Somalia showed our enemies that we're not invincible and we will back off if they attack us in the right place .. in the emotional hearts and minds of our citizens .. that can shake the resolve and commitment of a flaky president. That's the way they made us withdraw (surrender is the correct term) .. and its what the Liberals in America and some Socialist governments in Europe want us to do now. But its not going to work as long as Bush is President. Was (is) America the only country in the world worth spilling blood over to purchase independence, freedom and human rights? We must ask this question. If the answer is YES .. then there is no HOPE for the future of those countries who now live under the yoke of dictators. And we should change the wording on the Statue of Liberty. Anybody watching CNN lately can see the results of U.S. efforts in Iraq and the efforts of those who want to stop the movement toward democracy. The people are elated that Saddam has been brought into court to face justice .. and for the first time in history Iraq has an opportunity to become a free and democratic nation. Are all things going well there? No! But it took us a long time to get it right .. and it was worth it. Just yesterday, a leader of the Islamic Fundamentalist movement in Iraq warned the people that they would be punished if they supported the new government and the movement toward democracy. And they will do this! To say that the price paid to date in American and Iraqi blood is too great a price to give the people of Iraq a future is to say that it applies to all situations where a country was living under a dictator .. World Wars I and II and the Balkan War and Afghanistan. And moreso, it will demean the American holiday we are celebrating today. To say that the comments of President Karzai (before the NATO community) were not impressive would require one to lie. When he rattled off all of the things that are right about Afghanistan today vs where they had been a short time ago he was very sincere .. and emotional .. and spoke from the head and the heart .. not from prepared notes. President Karzai and the new leaders in Iraq are as brave and committed to their cause as were our Founding Fathers .. and they are actually at greater risk of losing their lives than were our Founding Fathers since our British enemies were civilized people .. this can't be said of those who want to see failure in Afghanistan and Iraq .. they have already murdered many of those who were brave enough to step forward and lead .. Karzai himself has escaped more than one assassination attempt .. and there will be more attempts .. we can count on that. Two countries have been liberated .. Afghanistan and Iraq .. and though there is now freedom for woman and hope for democracy and self-rule in Afghanistan and Iraq .. there is still some danger for the citizens and the leaders. Some folks expect those countries to function as we do today .. but in but a matter of months .. it took us over 100 years to get on a steady course and even that was after a major war between the North and the South .. a war that killed MILLIONS of Americans! Some others want us to abandon the cause .. even though the conventional wars have been won .. these folks say we must abandon those countries to their own fates to avoid spilling more American blood. If we do this I will be ashamed to call myself an American! As difficult as it might be at times, we must be realistic! Anybody who has not been asleep the last couple of years understands that we are in the midst of a war against Global Terrorism. Closing our eyes to that and holding hands on the hill whilst singing, " We Are The World " is NOT going to save our butts from this insidious enemy! I liked the words of the new U.S. Ambassador to the USELESS U.N. Sorry I forget his name but he is impressive. Basically, he said that folks want to keep rehashing the questions of whether or not we should have gone into Iraq .. which is a pointless argument because we did go in and now we need to look at the today and the tomorrow and quit wasting time on the yesterday. That causes problems for those who want to criticize the present administration. One does not have to be a Rocket Scientist to see that there are no problems today that are greater than the problems prior to our going in. The Taliban are not suppressing the people of Afghanistan today and the reign of terror by Saddam and his son and his generals is a thing of the past. And among those who can think for themselves there is HOPE today .. without HOPE man can barely survive .. not live a full life! Truth gets lost in partisan politics but intelligent people are not normally blinded by political bovine excrement. All political creatures depend on this rhetoric .. but we must be able to find truth where it really lies .. and not in the lies! The expectations of the Iraqi people also must be realistic .. though I understand that we are dealing with a group like most readers here can just not understand .. basically they are kind of heart and narrow of mind due to not having received proper education and due to having lived with no hope for 35 years .. now they want it all .. now. And it is those people who are not well educated that the Liberal Media will seek out when they ask for opinions on how things are now. The truth is .. things are going to get worse before they get better .. Americans and Iraqis must understand this and be prepared to stick it out. Those who have served in combat dread the loss of their brothers. Those who have written letters to families of soldiers know its an unpleasant task. No sane person wants their country's soldiers to die in combat .. but that is a risk one takes when one puts on the uniform. Uncle Sugar does not train, equip and pay soldiers for peace time .. soldiers are not in uniform to twiddle their thumbs, draw a fair salary and get a civilian education while awaiting retirement. When it is time to draw weapons it is their duty to go in harm's way .. and soldiers handle this fact far better than do those who are not in uniform. The United States has been attacked on our own ground and the enemy is planning to continue attacks against us. They attacked us 38 times during the administration of Bill Clinton but nothing was done about it. Those attacks (it is claimed) were seen as mad acts by mad men with no central leadership. But we underestimated the enemy then and our lack of response to the attacks had much to do with the attack of 9/11. It was 9/11 that woke us up .. and it was after 9/11 that investigations revealed that our enemy is well organized and equipped and financed and has no intentions of stopping their war against the West and anyone else who opposes the coming of another Islamic Empire. Spain has lost their war .. the terrorists have soundly defeated them already. Germany and France are trying to remain neutral and if they are attacked they will figure a way to blame America for the attacks. Damn .. the Terrorists are smart fellows .. their Psychological Warfare efforts are as effective as is their war of Terror. Folks do get shook when bombs go off and kill innocents and even more shook when they think of heads being cut off. As one trained in the art of Psychological Operations I understand their application of the skills .. and as one trained to support and defend freedom and the innocent I detest their methods. Its all about TERROR .. its not about the number of lives lost. Few of us know how many lives are lost monthly in the USA due to criminal acts and traffic accidents .. and I'll not drag out the figures now .. but I can assure you that the totals exceed those of our losses in Iraq and the reasons for the losses in America cannot be called honorable! I know of no American president in our past who was a war monger and I doubt we will have any in the future because it is NOT the American way. The military leaders of our country are not war mongers. But they all understand that when diplomacy fails (and there are no countries now with which to negotiate as Global Terrorism is not generally country sponsored) then Peace and Security comes through Superior Firepower .. that is the only solution. Those who are striking out at the present administration .. and grabbing at broom straws while trying to make mountains out of mole hills for totally political reasons .. are NOT looking at the BIG PICTURE. And they are not thinking of the future of the Free World. My opinion! I don't fawn over Bush .. he is a human being and as such he can and does make mistakes .. I doubt if any American president can juggle all the issues laid on their desk like a seasoned performer .. but he is a sincere person and he is a Patriot! Truth is truth and regardless of his faults Bush is a known factor and he is dedicated to protecting the citizens of the United States of America. That is important to me. Since WW II America has not been directly threatened .. but we ARE NOW! Those who think attacks by the Islamic Fundamentalists are going to go away, regardless of who sits in the White House, should read more on the history of Islam and seriously consider pulling their heads out of the dark place .. if not for their own sake for the sake of their children! I don't care who the president of the United States is .. I've voted Democratic and Republican many times in my life .. and will do so again in the future. But I do not want to leave the future of my children and grandchildren in the hands of any incompetent leader .. and I think any leader who can not understand the nature of the threat is incompetent! So I have made my choice .. as I hope each of you will do .. voting is not just a right, its an obligation that was thrust upon us by the blood of those we SHOULD honor on this Independence Day. Americans and the entire world must wake up and understand what is now happening and is about to happen. We are at WAR! This war began in the 1920s .. the new Terrorist group in Iraq now has taken the name of the Islamic group that fought against the British in those years. We MUST understand this enemy if we are to survive his attacks and eventually conquer him and again live in peace .. and have security at home and abroad. This enemy is NOT Islam .. its not those Moslems who follow the TRUE teachings of the Koran and who also want to live in peace .. its Islamic Fundamentalism .. its the bastardization of Islam .. just as some of the Right Wing idiots like Falwell and Robertson have done to Christianity. As I wrote above .. America's Founding Fathers were lucky that the Media was on their side. And America was lucky that foreigners came to our aid. If we are to cater to the ideas of those who say we should see the world as one .. and love our brothers .. and all the other good touchy and feely stuff they claim should be (with little conviction methinks) then we have an obligation to do all we can to protect our own .. and to assist those who are not capable of assisting themselves. Then maybe we can someday see the world as one. Off my soapbox now .. said to the sound of cheering .. and some snores too methinks .. ;-) Happy Birthday to all Americans and to those who followed our experiment and our model of self-government .. and a salute to those domestic and foreign heroes who made the dream a reality. I only hope that someday these words will be spoken with as much conviction as I have by folks in those countries that now need our support and the support of the freedom loving people of the world. I hope they will be able to honor their Founding Fathers and also remember the foreigners who assisted them .. as we should honor those who assisted us in our time of need. Y'all keep smiling. :-) Butch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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