RE: Happy Birthday America - A Celebration of Freedom and A Salute toThose Who Made it Possible

[Guest guest]

Hi Butch

 

I see what started out as a celebration of Fourth of July post has once

again turned to talk of Iraq.

 

I was hoping that if I ignored the political posts they would just go away

and when you started your mailing list I had even greater hopes:-))

 

But I can't stand it any longer! Please understand I am not attacking you,

I am just wanting to have my say and present another side of this from

someone who thinks very differently.

 

> America .. regardless of who likes us or not today (I believe those who

> oppose our actions in Iraq and Afghanistan do so for reasons that are

> not altruistic or noble .. and those reasons will not be dealt with by

> historians in that manner) was the example and the model for emerging

> nations and is still the example of a dream that many who still live

> under tyrants hold onto .. with some hope.

 

I oppose the action in Iraq and I can honestly say that it is not because of

a hidden agenda or motive.

 

I oppose it because I believe it's been based on a series of lies. When the

first lie was firstly exposed, then admitted (about the non existent WMD) it

fell like a house of cards. Now it's the notion of bringing democracy to

Iraq.

 

Australia has sent a very small number of troops to Iraq but for some reason

it's seen as being a much bigger thing symbolically. For our mere support

of this war I've never felt less proud to be an Australian in my life.

 

According to the Washington Post, Dick Cheney still claims that Iraq and

al-Quaeda had long established ties, and that in the early 90's Saddam

Hussein sent a senior commander from the Iraqi intelligence service to Sudan

to train al-Quaeda operatives in bomb making and document forgery. Senior

intelligence officials however, claimed to have no knowledge of this.

 

One of our most respected journalists, Paul McGeogh, has filed stories from

Baghdad for well over a year now. He has met with many Iraqi people and has

captured the mood of the place through his compelling articles. Many of

them are not supportive of the action that's been taken there.

 

Hugh White, the director of the Australian Strategic Policy Institute wrote

almost two years ago that he had not met a serious analyst that believed

removing Saddam would significantly reduce the threat of terrorism to the US

or its allies in the near future. Iraq provided an opportunity for the US

to replace an oppressive regime with one more congenial to the US and

western interests, which would in turn, allow the US to reduce its reliance

on Saudi Arabia and its oil reserves.

 

Lecturer in International Law at Monash University in Melbourne says " It is

not an effort by the US to monopolise Iraq revenue or oil, but to achieve

political influence within the OPEC price-setting and to secure cheap and

reliable oil supplies. It's a unique manoevre to shake up the OPEC

price-setting mechanism. What really prompted the war was the fear that

Iraq would rescuscitate its oil industry with French and Russian help, using

euros, which would then supplant petrodollars " .

 

Given that the US will control Iraq's oil industry even after transition, I

don't think it's a stretch to imagine the motives for going to war aren't

completely " altruistic or noble " either.

 

And let's not forget how profitable war is. Most of the money flows through

private firms such as Halliburton and Bechtel, but Rick Barton, a

co-director of the Post-Conflict Reconstruction Project at the Centre for

Strategic and International Studies in Washington says that the US would

have been better to hand most of the reconstruction money to the hundreds of

city councils it established across Iraq, so Iraq could tackle problems in

its own communities.

 

> Anybody watching CNN lately can see the results of U.S. efforts in Iraq

> and the efforts of those who want to stop the movement toward democracy.

> The people are elated that Saddam has been brought into court to face

> justice .. and for the first time in history Iraq has an opportunity to

> become a free and democratic nation. Are all things going well there?

> No! But it took us a long time to get it right .. and it was worth it.

 

SOME of the people in Iraq are elated - some are not. According to an

(unscientific) poll conducted by Radio Dijla in Baghdad, 45% of the people

wanted him dead immediately, but 41% of them wanted him released.

 

> One does not have to be a Rocket Scientist to see that there are no

> problems today that are greater than the problems prior to our going in.

> The Taliban are not suppressing the people of Afghanistan today and

> the reign of terror by Saddam and his son and his generals is a thing of

> the past. And among those who can think for themselves there is HOPE

> today .. without HOPE man can barely survive .. not live a full life!

 

I'm not sure that the Iraqi people feel this way. They've had schools,

libraries and hospitals bombed. There have been massive numbers of deaths

and casualties from " not so " smart bombs. They are living without

electricity for up to 10 hours a day in 50+ degree heat. They feel unsafe.

 

Reports are that the latest opinion polls conducted there were so bad that

the figures were suppressed. A leak to Associated Press reports that in six

cities surveyed, confidence in the authority was only 11% down from 47% last

November. Confidence in the US military polled at 10% and only 2% saw the

coalition forces as liberators. More than half the people surveyed said

they would safer if the US left.

 

So if those figures are true, I would call that a very big problem. To be

successful it is also necessary to win the hearts and the minds of the Iraqi

people.

 

> The expectations of the Iraqi people also must be realistic .. though I

> understand that we are dealing with a group like most readers here can

> just not understand .. basically they are kind of heart and narrow of

> mind due to not having received proper education and due to having lived

> with no hope for 35 years .. now they want it all .. now. And it is

> those people who are not well educated that the Liberal Media will seek

> out when they ask for opinions on how things are now. The truth is ..

> things are going to get worse before they get better .. Americans and

> Iraqis must understand this and be prepared to stick it out.

 

Ok, now I see my comments above can be explained away by pointing out that

the people surveyed haven't been educated enough to know what they think or

feel. I think perhaps wanting it all now is a little different to comparing

what they had before with what they have now and what they have to do

without.

 

> The United States has been attacked on our own ground and the enemy is

> planning to continue attacks against us. They attacked us 38 times

> during the administration of Bill Clinton but nothing was done about it.

> Those attacks (it is claimed) were seen as mad acts by mad men with no

> central leadership. But we underestimated the enemy then and our lack

> of response to the attacks had much to do with the attack of 9/11.

 

Wasn't it Bill Clinton's administration that identified Osama bin Laden as

being a threat, which the Bush administration then went on to ignore? There

were certainly people working in the intelligence areas who pushed their

case for this on deaf ears.

 

> I don't care who the president of the United States is .. I've voted

> Democratic and Republican many times in my life .. and will do so again

> in the future. But I do not want to leave the future of my children and

> grandchildren in the hands of any incompetent leader .. and I think any

> leader who can not understand the nature of the threat is incompetent!

 

Well if you have children and grandchildren you really need to start

thinking about climate change which is the much bigger picture. I believe

it is the single biggest threat we face today. Bigger than terrorism. (my

opinion). And in my opinion, any leader whose actions say the economy is

more important than the environment, and is unwilling to implement basic

measures to at least BEGIN to reverse climate change ... is incompetent.

You won't have to suffer the impact of these decisions, but your children

and your grandchildren will.

 

Vicki