Christian Extremists (was RE: OT: Re : The Rise of Modern Islamism)

[Guest guest]

Not Butch here but that sounds like more radical Christianity than I've

heard out of the many devout Christians I know (any in fact). Sounds

about as bad as any extremist of any faith - like people who set off

bombs and kill folks in the name of God - whatever name one wants to use

for God (and that goes for extreme Muslims who do suicide/homicide

bombings, or extreme Christians who are abortion clinic bombers, etc ..)

..

 

Just because someone is religious doesn't mean they are boarding on the

edge (or over the edge) of being absolutely ridiculous, and wanting the

world to become a worse place so Jesus will come sooner is off that edge

for sure!

 

To date every single president of the US has been some form of

Christian, with JFK being the only Catholic (and at the time that was a

BIG deal, cause he was a Catholic Christian, like its really any

different than being any other kind of Christian, but he might as well

have been Buddhist for the big deal they made of it at the time

 

I guess what it comes down to is there are lunatics out there in all

sizes, shapes, packages and religions. They pray on the scared, and in

many cases the uneducated. I think the least of the worries in the world

right now are that Bush is wanting to make the world a better place so

that the " second coming of Christ " will happen sooner cause he's a

Christian I think we realistically have a LOT more to worry about

with Islamic extremists who have declared a religious war (Jihad) on

western civilization and attacked our country (countries!) trying to

blow up the world so they can get X amount of virgins in the after life

;-p

 

*Smile*

Chris (list mom)

 

http://www.alittleolfactory.com

 

 

 

 

luckyleonine2000 [luckyleonine2000]

 

 

Hi Butch,

 

I got caught up with our move......realtor told us last Friday, we

have to " evacuate " the house within a week, so that painters can

start working here. Also, I guess this topic isn't welcomed on this

list, so I'll comment on a few things and wrap it up.

 

> PLEASE tell me where the Right broadcasts are coming from .. I

 

I don't listen them and I don't really know. But I do know that they

caused some hate crimes. I do know that Michael Savage said that we

should put all the muslim students in jails until they are cleared.

Another post said that one radio host said we should fight like the

terrorists do.

 

> >>It started around 680 AD .. and picked up steam following WWI

 

Thanks for the info.

 

 

About Bush and his religious belief, and PBS video.

PBS is not the only source that made me worry. Actually, it has been

my concern for several years. I attended several churches in the

past, lived with Christian families, and have very good Christian

friends. I very much respect their belief and I love them so much.

Once one of them told me that she was looking forward to the final

war, because it's " God's war " . Another sent me an email in the year

1998 or 1999 said " it's the last year, and the last chance " . Another

recommended me to read " Left Behind " . I also studied about

Christian fundamentalism and evangelism. Those are written by

evangelists and sociologist, and not meant to criticize them. In an

interview, some fundamentalist Christians said that they want the

world to become worse place, worse than ever, so that Christ will

come back sooner.

 

I hope Bush's policy isn't affected by this. If it's BS, then it's

great. It's one thing a Christian believes that the world should

become worse place before Jesus comes back. But a leader of a free

nation like the U.S. shouldn't base his policies on the end time

prophecy, I think.

 

Hope you had a great weekend!

 

Akiko

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Step By Step Instructions On Making Rose Petal Preserves:

http://www.av-at.com/stuff/rosejam.html

 

To adjust your group settings (i.e. go no mail) see the following link:

/join

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Hi Chris,

 

I think you took me out of context. In my original message which

goes back to a week ago, I asked Butch what he thought about Bush

and " rapture " thing. I myself don't know if the connection really

exist, except, I read several articles and saw videos indicate that.

 

Also, I'm not criticizing anyone here. I definitely don't think that

religious people are ridiculous. In fact, I'm very religious, too.

I know there are many denomination in Christianity. I have many

Christian friends who are not fundamentalists, as well as very

conservative ones. I like all of them. I know that not all the

Christians believe the rapture thing. I attended different churches

and amazed by the differences. (I think it's good thing that they

are so diverse).

 

Those fundamentalists are not lunatics. They said that they feel bad

but they believe the world should become worse before Christ comes

back. They are nice people who wouldn't hurt others at all, but

agree with wars in Mid East, because it's in Bible prophecy (they

believe) or their pastors said so. That's why it scares me. Nice

people could create a movement that might cause chaos. At least,

looks chaos to me who doesn't believe the end time prophecy, but

it's a must for those who believe the prophecy.

Also, it's not minority either, if you count all the people who love

the Left Behind series. They are national best sellers. I have no

idea how many of them actually believe that will happen, except some

articles suggested that it's quite many.

 

I don't know if it's true that Bush was affected by this. Just

concerned a little bit, and keep watching. If it's not true, then

it's great. I respect other beliefs and I don't have a problem with

personal beliefs, including the rapture theory. But I do concern

when a religion might be affecting a politician in a way that would

cause some worry. Bush said his political base is the Bible. It's

totally fine as long as he represents the Christian value of love

and caring. I don't have any problem with that. But it's very easy

for a politician to abuse religious beliefs also. (It was very well

done in Japan during the WW2). I don't know the president

personally, so I can't say for sure if he's not a trickster. I

want to keep a little space for doubts about everything, so I won't

be tricked.

 

I do worry about the Isramic fundamentalists. Please, please don't

misunderstand me on this issue.

 

Akiko

 

 

 

 

, " Christine Ziegler "

<chrisziggy@e...> wrote:

> Not Butch here but that sounds like more radical Christianity than

I've

> heard out of the many devout Christians I know (any in fact).

Sounds

> about as bad as any extremist of any faith - like people who set

off

> bombs and kill folks in the name of God - whatever name one wants

to use

> for God (and that goes for extreme Muslims who do suicide/homicide

> bombings, or extreme Christians who are abortion clinic bombers,

etc ..)

> .

>

> Just because someone is religious doesn't mean they are boarding

on the

> edge (or over the edge) of being absolutely ridiculous, and

wanting the

> world to become a worse place so Jesus will come sooner is off

that edge

> for sure!

>

> To date every single president of the US has been some form of

> Christian, with JFK being the only Catholic (and at the time that

was a

> BIG deal, cause he was a Catholic Christian, like its really any

> different than being any other kind of Christian, but he might as

well

> have been Buddhist for the big deal they made of it at the time

>

> I guess what it comes down to is there are lunatics out there in

all

> sizes, shapes, packages and religions. They pray on the scared,

and in

> many cases the uneducated. I think the least of the worries in the

world

> right now are that Bush is wanting to make the world a better

place so

> that the " second coming of Christ " will happen sooner cause he's a

> Christian I think we realistically have a LOT more to worry

about

> with Islamic extremists who have declared a religious war (Jihad)

on

> western civilization and attacked our country (countries!) trying

to

> blow up the world so they can get X amount of virgins in the after

life

> ;-p

>

> *Smile*

> Chris (list mom)

>

> http://www.alittleolfactory.com

>

[Guest guest]

> Hi Chris,

 

 

Hiya Akiko,

 

 

> I think you took me out of context. In my original message which

> goes back to a week ago, I asked Butch what he thought about Bush

> and " rapture " thing. I myself don't know if the connection really

> exist, except, I read several articles and saw videos indicate that.

 

 

 

 

Sorry if I missed that post from some time ago and took ya out of

context! I am way too behind on my e-mail

 

 

> Also, I'm not criticizing anyone here. I definitely don't think that

 

> religious people are ridiculous. In fact, I'm very religious, too.

 

> I know there are many denomination in Christianity. I have many

> Christian friends who are not fundamentalists, as well as very

> conservative ones. I like all of them. I know that not all the

> Christians believe the rapture thing. I attended different churches

> and amazed by the differences. (I think it's good thing that they

> are so diverse).

 

One of my favorite winter holiday cards to send out has a drawing with

several children of different nationalities and it says " If God made so

many different kinds of people why would He only make one way to worship

Him " .. I especially love to send that one to the small minded folks I

know who never thought that BIG before (ok it calls God a He, and for

all we know God may be a She, but I'm not going to get THAT picky

 

> Those fundamentalists are not lunatics. They said that they feel bad

 

> but they believe the world should become worse before Christ comes

> back. They are nice people who wouldn't hurt others at all, but

> agree with wars in Mid East, because it's in Bible prophecy (they

> believe) or their pastors said so. That's why it scares me. Nice

> people could create a movement that might cause chaos. At least,

> looks chaos to me who doesn't believe the end time prophecy, but

> it's a must for those who believe the prophecy.

> Also, it's not minority either, if you count all the people who love

 

> the Left Behind series. They are national best sellers. I have no

> idea how many of them actually believe that will happen, except some

> articles suggested that it's quite many.

 

 

Seems like they're really looking for any " easy out " . We don't have to

make the world a better place, easier to let it go to hell in a hand

basket and then Jesus will comes and save us I do still believe that

anyone who hopes the world gets worse in the hopes a savior will comes

take care of stuff needs to re-evaluate. Reminds me of the following

joke:

 

During a particularly wet winter, flood waters rise so high in one town

that the national guard evacuates all the residents. One man stays

behind, however, and when the water is waist-high, two national

guardsmen in a boat motor past his house, checking for people left

behind.

 

 

" We're evacuating the town because of the flood! Jump in the boat and

we'll carry you to safety! "

 

 

But the man says, " No, don't bother; I've led a pious life, and the Lord

will save me. "

 

 

The men in the boat shrug their shoulders and motor away. Later, when

the water level has driven the man onto his roof, another boat appears.

 

 

" Haven't you heard the town has been evacuated? Come on, we'll save

you! "

 

 

But the man sends them away again, saying " No, no, the Lord will save

me! "

 

 

The water level keeps rising until the man is standing on his chimney

and barely keeping his head above water, and a helicopter, doing a final

check, appears overhead. It drops a rope, and the loudspeaker says,

" Grab the rope and we'll bring you to safety! "

 

 

But the man waves the helicopter away, once again saying, " No, the Lord

will save me! "

 

 

But the water level keeps rising, and he drowns.

 

 

When he gets to heaven, he is completely bewildered. He asks God, " God,

why didn't you save me? "

 

 

And God says, " Well, I sent you two boats and a helicopter. "

 

 

 

 

> I don't know if it's true that Bush was affected by this. Just

> concerned a little bit, and keep watching. If it's not true, then

> it's great. I respect other beliefs and I don't have a problem with

> personal beliefs, including the rapture theory. But I do concern

> when a religion might be affecting a politician in a way that would

> cause some worry. Bush said his political base is the Bible. It's

> totally fine as long as he represents the Christian value of love

> and caring. I don't have any problem with that. But it's very easy

> for a politician to abuse religious beliefs also. (It was very well

> done in Japan during the WW2). I don't know the president

> personally, so I can't say for sure if he's not a trickster. I

> want to keep a little space for doubts about everything, so I won't

> be tricked.

 

 

Yes, I understand doubting politicians! I worked for one of the biggest

lobbying organizations in Colorado for the Democratic party in the late

90's and, well, as a life long Democrat from a family of lifelong Dems,

I can now say that I trust them as little as I trust the Republicans

*lol* I'm registered as an Independent now cause of that job! Keep being

skeptical, its a good thing, just please don't become a conspiracy

theorist, cause they get friggin over the top silly!

 

But if you believe all the anti-Bush crowd who talk about how stupid he

is, then you have to believe that if he did feel that way (the whole

rapture thing) he wouldn't be smart enough to hide it

 

 

> I do worry about the Isramic fundamentalists. Please, please don't

> misunderstand me on this issue.

 

I worry about all the people in the world who don't respect life, and

the rights of folks to do just that - live life.

 

> Akiko

 

Stay safe, healthy and happy!

 

*Smile*

Chris (list mom)

 

 

 

http://www.alittleolfactory.com

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Hi Chris,

 

> Sorry if I missed that post from some time ago and took ya out of

> context! I am way too behind on my e-mail

 

No, I'm the one waaaaay too behind.

Sorry about that. I just didn't want to be seen as if bashing

Christians.

 

> One of my favorite winter holiday cards to send out has a drawing

with several children of different nationalities and it says " If God

made so many different kinds of people why would He only make one

way to worship Him " .. I especially love to send that one to the

small minded folks I know who never thought that BIG before (ok it

calls God a He, and for all we know God may be a She, but I'm not

going to get THAT picky

 

That's very nice, Chris. I think diversity is a great thing. I

can learn things from different perspectives and it helps me a lot

to understand. Also, the function of religions is, I believe, to

help people become truely happy, and like you said there are many

kinds of people in the world, there should be many kinds of

religions, too.

 

> Seems like they're really looking for any " easy out " . We don't

have to make the world a better place, easier to let it go to hell

in a hand basket and then Jesus will comes and save us I do still

believe that anyone who hopes the world gets worse in the hopes a

savior will comes take care of stuff needs to re-evaluate.

 

I know. It reminds me of a kid wishing a lightning would hit his

elementary school so he wouldn't have to do his homework. Well,

life is very hard sometimes, and I can understand why they think

this way. There was a kind of fad in Japan in 80's, that Nostradams'

prophecy became very popular. I remember that I felt a strange

relief when I calculated that the world would ends before I hit

30's. And some people just went too far, and tried to create

Armagedom themselves in 1995, with sarin gas in Tokyo subways.

I read somewhere that by believing prophecy, one would (often

subconsiously) create the situation similar to the prophecy.

 

Also, it's very sad to see that my friends are so dependent to what

they call " God's will " . One of my friends wanted to go to China for

missionary work, and believed that God told her to do so. She was

waiting for God to tell her when it's the time to go. She waited,

waited, and waited. She once broke down because God hadn't told her

that she was ready to go. I thought, " why don't you just go? " Why

does she hurt herself for some unseen guidance? When I was with them

and in search for my own spiritual path, it looked very attractive

first, that I wouldn't have to decide but do only what God tells me.

Then I got really frustrated that I couldn't find what God wanted.

Then I started to believe that God helps those who help themselves.

But I understand why they want God to tell them what to do, and why

they want Jesus comes back very soon.

 

 

>Reminds me of the following joke:

 

Oh, I love this joke! So true.

 

 

> Yes, I understand doubting politicians! I worked for one of the

biggest lobbying organizations in Colorado for the Democratic party

in the late 90's and, well, as a life long Democrat from a family of

lifelong Dems, I can now say that I trust them as little as I trust

the Republicans *lol* I'm registered as an Independent now cause of

that job! Keep being skeptical, its a good thing, just please don't

become a conspiracy theorist, cause they get friggin over the top

silly!

 

Yes, conspiracy theories, they are fun, aren't they?

I'm afraid that i have a little bit of tendancy for that. I should

be careful. About politicians, I totally believe you. I wish

there were more choices, too.

 

> But if you believe all the anti-Bush crowd who talk about how

stupid he is, then you have to believe that if he did feel that way

(the whole rapture thing) he wouldn't be smart enough to hide it

 

I don't know if he believes that. He actually said once that he

thinks Muslims and Christians believe in the same God. But he might

be using the crowd to get more vote or some benefit.

 

> I worry about all the people in the world who don't respect life,

and the rights of folks to do just that - live life.

 

Yes, it's such a precious life each of us have.

 

> Stay safe, healthy and happy!

 

Thanks! You, too!

 

Akiko