Guest guest Posted July 26, 2007 Report Share Posted July 26, 2007 lately i've been getting many patients telling me they're getting a quite strong qi sensation at K3. i've not changed my needle technique. most of these are 55-60+y, but not exclusively. the sensation is so strong, a couple won't let me needle it. on a few i've had difficulty getting the needle in. have noticed on those folks that ub 60 is often also blocked. many of these show congestion (visible veins) in the K3 area. any thoughts or theories about why this maybe. i'm particularly interested in what may be causing the local qi stag and strong sensation at this point. call me curious, k -- Kath Bartlett, LAc, MS, BA UCLA Oriental Medicine Experienced, Dedicated, Effective Asheville Center For 70 Woodfin Place, Suite West Wing Two Asheville, NC 28801 828.258.2777 kbartlett www.AcupunctureAsheville.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 26, 2007 Report Share Posted July 26, 2007 HI Kath- I'm wondering if these patients are yin xu, and this being summertime, heat depletes yin, and so this very yin point is more sensitive? I often see seasonal differences in the sensitivity level of some points, just like I see some patients with health issues that return the same time every year. " " wrote: lately i've been getting many patients telling me they're getting a quite strong qi sensation at K3. i've not changed my needle technique. most of these are 55-60+y, but not exclusively. the sensation is so strong, a couple won't let me needle it. on a few i've had difficulty getting the needle in. have noticed on those folks that ub 60 is often also blocked. many of these show congestion (visible veins) in the K3 area. any thoughts or theories about why this maybe. i'm particularly interested in what may be causing the local qi stag and strong sensation at this point. call me curious, k -- Kath Bartlett, LAc, MS, BA UCLA Oriental Medicine Experienced, Dedicated, Effective Asheville Center For 70 Woodfin Place, Suite West Wing Two Asheville, NC 28801 828.258.2777 kbartlett www.AcupunctureAsheville.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 26, 2007 Report Share Posted July 26, 2007 Kath: Just some ideas for needling the sensitive patient - use the thinner needles. Red serins, if that is too strong, green serins, use a guide tube. I don't use them in general but for sensitive patients I do. If they still can't tolerate it, use a piezo to stimulate the point. It is better than not doing it. I have noticed more sensitivity on that point with some patients. Hope this helps, Anne -------------- Original message ---------------------- < > HI Kath- > > I'm wondering if these patients are yin xu, and this being summertime, heat > depletes yin, and so this very yin point is more sensitive? I often see > seasonal differences in the sensitivity level of some points, just like I see > some patients with health issues that return the same time every year. > > > > " " wrote: lately i've been getting > many patients telling me they're getting a quite > strong qi sensation at K3. i've not changed my needle technique. most of > these are 55-60+y, but not exclusively. the sensation is so strong, a > couple won't let me needle it. on a few i've had difficulty getting the > needle in. have noticed on those folks that ub 60 is often also blocked. > many of these show congestion (visible veins) in the K3 area. > > any thoughts or theories about why this maybe. i'm particularly interested > in what may be causing the local qi stag and strong sensation at this > point. > > call me curious, > > k > > -- > Kath Bartlett, LAc, MS, BA UCLA > Oriental Medicine > Experienced, Dedicated, Effective > > Asheville Center For > 70 Woodfin Place, Suite West Wing Two > Asheville, NC 28801 828.258.2777 > kbartlett > www.AcupunctureAsheville.com > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 26, 2007 Report Share Posted July 26, 2007 Hi Kath and Andrea Beth - what are the pulses like for these folks? I, too, have had surprising reactions on this point. And Ki/Bl pulses seem more substantial than I'm used to for the pnts concerned, even wiry (ish). Karen Karen Adams, Lic Ac, Dipl Ac wrote: > HI Kath- > > I'm wondering if these patients are yin xu, and this being summertime, > heat depletes yin, and so this very yin point is more sensitive? I > often see seasonal differences in the sensitivity level of some > points, just like I see some patients with health issues that return > the same time every year. > > > > " " <acukath > <acukath%40gmail.com>> wrote: lately i've been getting many > patients telling me they're getting a quite > strong qi sensation at K3. i've not changed my needle technique. most of > these are 55-60+y, but not exclusively. the sensation is so strong, a > couple won't let me needle it. on a few i've had difficulty getting the > needle in. have noticed on those folks that ub 60 is often also blocked. > many of these show congestion (visible veins) in the K3 area. > > any thoughts or theories about why this maybe. i'm particularly interested > in what may be causing the local qi stag and strong sensation at this > point. > > call me curious, > > k > > -- > > Oriental Medicine > Experienced, Dedicated, Effective > > Asheville Center For > 70 Woodfin Place, Suite West Wing Two > Asheville, NC 28801 828.258.2777 > kbartlett > <kbartlett%40AcupunctureAsheville.com> > www.AcupunctureAsheville.com > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 26, 2007 Report Share Posted July 26, 2007 There's a nerve that runs through there and around Kid 6. I can't remember the name of it, but it runs close to the surface on some people. I've had several people complain about ankle points. One even had cramping pain several days after. Sometimes I flex the foot dorsally to create less surface tension around that area. Gabrielle Chinese Medicine , " Kath Bartlett, MS, LAc " wrote: > > lately i've been getting many patients telling me they're getting a quite > strong qi sensation at K3. i've not changed my needle technique. most of > these are 55-60+y, but not exclusively. the sensation is so strong, a > couple won't let me needle it. on a few i've had difficulty getting the > needle in. have noticed on those folks that ub 60 is often also blocked. > many of these show congestion (visible veins) in the K3 area. > > any thoughts or theories about why this maybe. i'm particularly interested > in what may be causing the local qi stag and strong sensation at this > point. > > call me curious, > > k > > -- > Kath Bartlett, LAc, MS, BA UCLA > Oriental Medicine > Experienced, Dedicated, Effective > > Asheville Center For > 70 Woodfin Place, Suite West Wing Two > Asheville, NC 28801 828.258.2777 > kbartlett > www.AcupunctureAsheville.com > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 26, 2007 Report Share Posted July 26, 2007 Hi Karen, I find in general that women are more sensitive to needling in general the week prior to the start of their menstrual flow, and at this time, their pulses are typically either more wiry or more full than usual. Notably, all points on the feet are especially more sensitive at this time, not just KI-3. Where I live, it seems that almost everyone's pulses become superficial and wiry, some with slippery or choppy qualities mixed during the summertime heat and humidity, with pulses closest to the wrist becoming more soft or scattered. I too, have been surprised to find wiry or tight pulses in the KI/UB position, though this is not as prevalent as the overall wiry pulses I am finding lately. K Adams <k_r_adams wrote: Hi Kath and Andrea Beth - what are the pulses like for these folks? I, too, have had surprising reactions on this point. And Ki/Bl pulses seem more substantial than I'm used to for the pnts concerned, even wiry (ish). Karen Karen Adams, Lic Ac, Dipl Ac wrote: > HI Kath- > > I'm wondering if these patients are yin xu, and this being summertime, > heat depletes yin, and so this very yin point is more sensitive? I > often see seasonal differences in the sensitivity level of some > points, just like I see some patients with health issues that return > the same time every year. > > > > " " > > wrote: lately i've been getting many > patients telling me they're getting a quite > strong qi sensation at K3. i've not changed my needle technique. most of > these are 55-60+y, but not exclusively. the sensation is so strong, a > couple won't let me needle it. on a few i've had difficulty getting the > needle in. have noticed on those folks that ub 60 is often also blocked. > many of these show congestion (visible veins) in the K3 area. > > any thoughts or theories about why this maybe. i'm particularly interested > in what may be causing the local qi stag and strong sensation at this > point. > > call me curious, > > k > > -- > > Oriental Medicine > Experienced, Dedicated, Effective > > Asheville Center For > 70 Woodfin Place, Suite West Wing Two > Asheville, NC 28801 828.258.2777 > kbartlett > > www.AcupunctureAsheville.com > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 27, 2007 Report Share Posted July 27, 2007 Hi Andrea Beth - makes sense what you say about women, menstruation, etc. 2 of the folks I'm thinking of are post-menopausal, though. Which doesn't, I'm beginning to think, preclude premenstrual hormonal stuff, just to a lesser degree? Never done the research on that, just beginning to notice those fluctuations even in women who no longer menstruate. Wiry in heat and damp summer, huh. Have to think about that. If it means stagnation of some kind, that makes sense to me, as I get frustrated and pissy in hot, damp New England weather myself. Have to check my pulses! k wrote: > Hi Karen, > > I find in general that women are more sensitive to needling in general > the week prior to the start of their menstrual flow, and at this time, > their pulses are typically either more wiry or more full than usual. > Notably, all points on the feet are especially more sensitive at this > time, not just KI-3. > > Where I live, it seems that almost everyone's pulses become > superficial and wiry, some with slippery or choppy qualities mixed > during the summertime heat and humidity, with pulses closest to the > wrist becoming more soft or scattered. I too, have been surprised to > find wiry or tight pulses in the KI/UB position, though this is not as > prevalent as the overall wiry pulses I am finding lately. > > > > K Adams <k_r_adams <k_r_adams%40verizon.net>> > wrote: Hi Kath and Andrea Beth - what are the pulses like for these > folks? I, > too, have had surprising reactions on this point. And Ki/Bl pulses seem > more substantial than I'm used to for the pnts concerned, even wiry (ish). > Karen > > Karen Adams, Lic Ac, Dipl Ac > > wrote: > > > HI Kath- > > > > I'm wondering if these patients are yin xu, and this being summertime, > > heat depletes yin, and so this very yin point is more sensitive? I > > often see seasonal differences in the sensitivity level of some > > points, just like I see some patients with health issues that return > > the same time every year. > > > > > > > > " " > > > wrote: lately i've been getting many > > patients telling me they're getting a quite > > strong qi sensation at K3. i've not changed my needle technique. most of > > these are 55-60+y, but not exclusively. the sensation is so strong, a > > couple won't let me needle it. on a few i've had difficulty getting the > > needle in. have noticed on those folks that ub 60 is often also blocked. > > many of these show congestion (visible veins) in the K3 area. > > > > any thoughts or theories about why this maybe. i'm particularly > interested > > in what may be causing the local qi stag and strong sensation at this > > point. > > > > call me curious, > > > > k > > > > -- > > > > Oriental Medicine > > Experienced, Dedicated, Effective > > > > Asheville Center For > > 70 Woodfin Place, Suite West Wing Two > > Asheville, NC 28801 828.258.2777 > > kbartlett > <kbartlett%40AcupunctureAsheville.com> > > > > www.AcupunctureAsheville.com > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 27, 2007 Report Share Posted July 27, 2007 andrea: I'm not sure that this is a seasonal thing: its something i've been noticing since early spring. anne: what's a peizo? Karen: i haven't paid particular attention to how the pulses of this group might differ in comparision to my general patient population. k On 7/26/07, < wrote: > > HI Kath- > > I'm wondering if these patients are yin xu, and this being summertime, > heat depletes yin, and so this very yin point is more sensitive? I often see > seasonal differences in the sensitivity level of some points, just like I > see some patients with health issues that return the same time every year. > > > > " " <acukath <acukath%40gmail.com>> wrote: > lately i've been getting many patients telling me they're getting a quite > strong qi sensation at K3. i've not changed my needle technique. most of > these are 55-60+y, but not exclusively. the sensation is so strong, a > couple won't let me needle it. on a few i've had difficulty getting the > needle in. have noticed on those folks that ub 60 is often also blocked. > many of these show congestion (visible veins) in the K3 area. > > any thoughts or theories about why this maybe. i'm particularly interested > in what may be causing the local qi stag and strong sensation at this > point. > > call me curious, > > k > > -- > > Oriental Medicine > Experienced, Dedicated, Effective > > Asheville Center For > 70 Woodfin Place, Suite West Wing Two > Asheville, NC 28801 828.258.2777 > kbartlett <kbartlett%40AcupunctureAsheville.com> > www.AcupunctureAsheville.com > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 27, 2007 Report Share Posted July 27, 2007 thanks. that sounds plausible. k On 7/26/07, gabriellemathieu <gabriellemathieu wrote: > > There's a nerve that runs through there and around Kid 6. I can't > remember the name of it, but it runs close to the surface on some > people. I've had several people complain about ankle points. One even > had cramping pain several days after. > Sometimes I flex the foot dorsally to create less surface tension > around that area. > Gabrielle > > --- In Chinese Medicine <Chinese Medicine%40yaho\ ogroups.com>, > " Kath Bartlett, > MS, LAc " wrote: > > > > lately i've been getting many patients telling me they're getting a > quite > > strong qi sensation at K3. i've not changed my needle technique. > most of > > these are 55-60+y, but not exclusively. the sensation is so > strong, a > > couple won't let me needle it. on a few i've had difficulty > getting the > > needle in. have noticed on those folks that ub 60 is often also > blocked. > > many of these show congestion (visible veins) in the K3 area. > > > > any thoughts or theories about why this maybe. i'm particularly > interested > > in what may be causing the local qi stag and strong sensation at > this > > point. > > > > call me curious, > > > > k > > > > -- > > > > Oriental Medicine > > Experienced, Dedicated, Effective > > > > Asheville Center For > > 70 Woodfin Place, Suite West Wing Two > > Asheville, NC 28801 828.258.2777 > > kbartlett > > www.AcupunctureAsheville.com > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 27, 2007 Report Share Posted July 27, 2007 Piezo - hand held device that sends a small microcurrent to the point. OMS sells them. Anne -------------- Original message ---------------------- " " > thanks. that sounds plausible. > > k > > > On 7/26/07, gabriellemathieu <gabriellemathieu wrote: > > > > There's a nerve that runs through there and around Kid 6. I can't > > remember the name of it, but it runs close to the surface on some > > people. I've had several people complain about ankle points. One even > > had cramping pain several days after. > > Sometimes I flex the foot dorsally to create less surface tension > > around that area. > > Gabrielle > > > > --- In > Chinese Medicine <Chinese Medicine%40yaho > ogroups.com>, > > " Kath Bartlett, > > MS, LAc " wrote: > > > > > > lately i've been getting many patients telling me they're getting a > > quite > > > strong qi sensation at K3. i've not changed my needle technique. > > most of > > > these are 55-60+y, but not exclusively. the sensation is so > > strong, a > > > couple won't let me needle it. on a few i've had difficulty > > getting the > > > needle in. have noticed on those folks that ub 60 is often also > > blocked. > > > many of these show congestion (visible veins) in the K3 area. > > > > > > any thoughts or theories about why this maybe. i'm particularly > > interested > > > in what may be causing the local qi stag and strong sensation at > > this > > > point. > > > > > > call me curious, > > > > > > k > > > > > > -- > > > > > > Oriental Medicine > > > Experienced, Dedicated, Effective > > > > > > Asheville Center For > > > 70 Woodfin Place, Suite West Wing Two > > > Asheville, NC 28801 828.258.2777 > > > kbartlett > > > www.AcupunctureAsheville.com > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 27, 2007 Report Share Posted July 27, 2007 You also might think about using a moxibustion stick to heat the point up or using direct moxibustion. - anne.crowley Chinese Medicine Thursday, July 26, 2007 11:06 AM Re: strong qi at K3? Kath: Just some ideas for needling the sensitive patient - use the thinner needles. Red serins, if that is too strong, green serins, use a guide tube. I don't use them in general but for sensitive patients I do. If they still can't tolerate it, use a piezo to stimulate the point. It is better than not doing it. I have noticed more sensitivity on that point with some patients. Hope this helps, Anne -------------- Original message ---------------------- < > HI Kath- > > I'm wondering if these patients are yin xu, and this being summertime, heat > depletes yin, and so this very yin point is more sensitive? I often see > seasonal differences in the sensitivity level of some points, just like I see > some patients with health issues that return the same time every year. > > > > " " wrote: lately i've been getting > many patients telling me they're getting a quite > strong qi sensation at K3. i've not changed my needle technique. most of > these are 55-60+y, but not exclusively. the sensation is so strong, a > couple won't let me needle it. on a few i've had difficulty getting the > needle in. have noticed on those folks that ub 60 is often also blocked. > many of these show congestion (visible veins) in the K3 area. > > any thoughts or theories about why this maybe. i'm particularly interested > in what may be causing the local qi stag and strong sensation at this > point. > > call me curious, > > k > > -- > > Oriental Medicine > Experienced, Dedicated, Effective > > Asheville Center For > 70 Woodfin Place, Suite West Wing Two > Asheville, NC 28801 828.258.2777 > kbartlett > www.AcupunctureAsheville.com > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 27, 2007 Report Share Posted July 27, 2007 thanks a good idea. thanks, k On 7/27/07, Whartenby! <jwhartenby wrote: > > You also might think about using a moxibustion stick to heat the point > up or using direct moxibustion. > - > anne.crowley <anne.crowley%40comcast.net> > To: Chinese Medicine <Chinese Medicine%40yaho\ ogroups.com> > Thursday, July 26, 2007 11:06 AM > Re: strong qi at K3? > > Kath: > > Just some ideas for needling the sensitive patient - use the thinner > needles. Red serins, if that is too strong, green serins, use a guide tube. > I don't use them in general but for sensitive patients I do. > If they still can't tolerate it, use a piezo to stimulate the point. It is > better than not doing it. > > I have noticed more sensitivity on that point with some patients. > > Hope this helps, > > Anne > -------------- Original message ---------------------- > < <%40>> > > HI Kath- > > > > I'm wondering if these patients are yin xu, and this being summertime, > heat > > depletes yin, and so this very yin point is more sensitive? I often see > > seasonal differences in the sensitivity level of some points, just like > I see > > some patients with health issues that return the same time every year. > > > > > > > > " " <acukath <acukath%40gmail.com>> > wrote: lately i've been getting > > many patients telling me they're getting a quite > > strong qi sensation at K3. i've not changed my needle technique. most of > > these are 55-60+y, but not exclusively. the sensation is so strong, a > > couple won't let me needle it. on a few i've had difficulty getting the > > needle in. have noticed on those folks that ub 60 is often also blocked. > > many of these show congestion (visible veins) in the K3 area. > > > > any thoughts or theories about why this maybe. i'm particularly > interested > > in what may be causing the local qi stag and strong sensation at this > > point. > > > > call me curious, > > > > k > > > > -- > > > > Oriental Medicine > > Experienced, Dedicated, Effective > > > > Asheville Center For > > 70 Woodfin Place, Suite West Wing Two > > Asheville, NC 28801 828.258.2777 > > kbartlett<kbartlett%40AcupunctureAsheville.com> > > www.AcupunctureAsheville.com > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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