Guest guest Posted April 2, 2008 Report Share Posted April 2, 2008 I am a little confused about the correct diagnosis and I thought I'd ask for your suggestions: 30yr female experiencing early morning diarrhea – wakes her up between 4-5am. Abd pain/ watery/ foul smell. She also has very cold hands & feet (turn blue), low back pain. Sounds to me like classic Cock's Crow Diarrhea. However, her other symptoms don't match with Kid Yang Def. Tongue: red with redder tip & red points. Peeled, sli moist. Period: Heavy flow for 5 days. Dark (almost black) for 2 days, then deep red. Medium clots. Cramp in Low Back & abd (2 days before and 2 initial days). Increased thirst, irritable, anxiety, v. low energy, occ HA. These signs point to Lvr Blood Heat with Blood Stag. Geraldine Fitzgerald Shute deephealingacupuncture.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 2, 2008 Report Share Posted April 2, 2008 How is the pulse? Can it be false cold due to extreme heat? Heat can drive the yin out and give symptoms like Cold hands/feet. Back pain can also be from the Liver, does not necessary mean the Kidneys.Since the smell i s foul, I would think of heat or stagnation from food. some other symptoms? Just some thoughts /Peter Chinese Medicine , " geraldineshute " <geraldineshute wrote: > > I am a little confused about the correct diagnosis and I thought I'd > ask for your suggestions: > > 30yr female experiencing early morning diarrhea � wakes her up between > 4-5am. Abd pain/ watery/ foul smell. > She also has very cold hands & feet (turn blue), low back pain. > Sounds to me like classic Cock's Crow Diarrhea. > However, her other symptoms don't match with Kid Yang Def. > > Tongue: red with redder tip & red points. Peeled, sli moist. > Period: Heavy flow for 5 days. Dark (almost black) for 2 days, then > deep red. Medium clots. Cramp in Low Back & abd (2 days before and 2 > initial days). Increased thirst, irritable, anxiety, v. low energy, occ > HA. > These signs point to Lvr Blood Heat with Blood Stag. > > > Geraldine Fitzgerald Shute > deephealingacupuncture.com > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 3, 2008 Report Share Posted April 3, 2008 Hi Geraldine, it's pretty clear that there are liver heat / constraint issues, yin deficiency, blood heat and so on along with the yang deficiency, but there is one thing you mentioned which is quite important and which may be important to clarify further - it is unusual to see blue extremities due solely to yang deficiency, unless it is heart yang deficiency, in which case I would then expect blue extremities. You may want to check for other signs of ht yang def or yang collapse, such as oily sweat, blue lips, stuffiness of chest and so on. Be careful of clearing / draining heat with this person. I would also get a very clear s & s picture of the various times of the day. Hope that helps, Hugo geraldineshute <geraldineshute Chinese Medicine Tuesday, 1 April, 2008 9:20:04 PM cock's crow diarrhea? I am a little confused about the correct diagnosis and I thought I'd ask for your suggestions: 30yr female experiencing early morning diarrhea – wakes her up between 4-5am. Abd pain/ watery/ foul smell. She also has very cold hands & feet (turn blue), low back pain. Sounds to me like classic Cock's Crow Diarrhea. However, her other symptoms don't match with Kid Yang Def. Tongue: red with redder tip & red points. Peeled, sli moist. Period: Heavy flow for 5 days. Dark (almost black) for 2 days, then deep red. Medium clots. Cramp in Low Back & abd (2 days before and 2 initial days). Increased thirst, irritable, anxiety, v. low energy, occ HA. These signs point to Lvr Blood Heat with Blood Stag. Geraldine Fitzgerald Shute deephealingacupunct ure.com ________ Sent from Mail. A Smarter Inbox http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 3, 2008 Report Share Posted April 3, 2008 Gearaldine: I agree with Peter. This seems to be a heat/excess condition(s) and you may wish to look at her " female " signs as a separate mainfestation. I would look to Spleen and Ren in addition to what you are doing for the menses. Move one issue and the other should follow or at least become more clear. For the " Cocks Crow Diarrhea " I might suggest KI 3 (Taixi) and Bafeng (Eight Winds at the webs of the toes), and to that add the classic SP 6, LI 3 and Rn 8. The intent here is to clear heat, move blood and fluids and normalize menstruation and GI function. The region from SP 4 to 8 is often highly reactive in cases of diarrhea and have been used historically to treat typhoid, cholera and a host of paracitic illnesses, not to mention irregular menses. You might hunt around there and treat the active acupoints. The true nature of this person's condition may then become evident. Just a few thoughts. Good Luck, Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 26, 2008 Report Share Posted April 26, 2008 geraldine: forgive me, i'm catching up. i'm wondering what's happening with this interesting case? my take was that your dx is correct, you have diarrhea due to kid yang xu with heat. not sure based on what you give that it's liver xue heat. i'm not seeing the liver signs. i'm thinking the irrit is due to heat rather than a liver issue. my approach would be to clear heat and nourish yin inorder to nourish yg. (something like zhi bai di huang wan). you'll need to used some finesse with adding a few yang tonics to the heat clearing herbs. according to jeffery yuen ba ji tian leads fire back to its source: ming men. i would also include the 4 herbs for cock's crow (i'm blanking on the formula name): rou dou cou, nutmeg, tusizi, (my mind is off, i'm not recalling the other ingredients at this moment). anyway, let us know how you made out on this one. it may take some time being as its a complicated one. kath b On Wed, Apr 2, 2008 at 7:06 PM, Hugo Ramiro <subincor wrote: > Hi Geraldine, it's pretty clear that there are liver heat / constraint > issues, yin deficiency, blood heat and so on along with the yang deficiency, > but there is one thing you mentioned which is quite important and which may > be important to clarify further - it is unusual to see blue extremities due > solely to yang deficiency, unless it is heart yang deficiency, in which case > I would then expect blue extremities. You may want to check for other signs > of ht yang def or yang collapse, such as oily sweat, blue lips, stuffiness > of chest and so on. > Be careful of clearing / draining heat with this person. I would also get a > very clear s & s picture of the various times of the day. > Hope that helps, > Hugo > > > geraldineshute <geraldineshute<geraldineshute%40sbcglobal.net> > > > To: Chinese Medicine <Chinese Medicine%40yaho\ ogroups.com> > Tuesday, 1 April, 2008 9:20:04 PM > cock's crow diarrhea? > > I am a little confused about the correct diagnosis and I thought I'd > ask for your suggestions: > > 30yr female experiencing early morning diarrhea – wakes her up between > 4-5am. Abd pain/ watery/ foul smell. > She also has very cold hands & feet (turn blue), low back pain. > Sounds to me like classic Cock's Crow Diarrhea. > However, her other symptoms don't match with Kid Yang Def. > > Tongue: red with redder tip & red points. Peeled, sli moist. > Period: Heavy flow for 5 days. Dark (almost black) for 2 days, then > deep red. Medium clots. Cramp in Low Back & abd (2 days before and 2 > initial days). Increased thirst, irritable, anxiety, v. low energy, occ > HA. > These signs point to Lvr Blood Heat with Blood Stag. > > Geraldine Fitzgerald Shute > deephealingacupunct ure.com > > ________ > Sent from Mail. > A Smarter Inbox http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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