Guest guest Posted May 13, 2008 Report Share Posted May 13, 2008 I think I've helped people with bipolar disease but also I find that those that really need medication, really need medication. If your patient hopes to stop taking medication by your treatments I would be very, very wary. The last patient I had like this was a disaster if only because she got quickly better with my treatments and then when she started to unravel again it was very unpleasant for everyone involved. On the other hand I've had patients who have done well with Tian Wan Bu Xin Dan, for example, when they seem to be on the borderline. Doug , " James P Slaymaker, L Ac " <acupuncture2heal wrote: > > Dear All, > I am wondering if anyone has successfully treated patients with a > western diagnosis of bipolar, specifically those who have more frequent > (bimonthly) hypomanic episodes, but less depression. If so, do you mind > sharing your experiences. You can email me directly if that is more > comfortable for you to share. > All the best, Jim > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 14, 2008 Report Share Posted May 14, 2008 Dear All, I am wondering if anyone has successfully treated patients with a western diagnosis of bipolar, specifically those who have more frequent (bimonthly) hypomanic episodes, but less depression. If so, do you mind sharing your experiences. You can email me directly if that is more comfortable for you to share. All the best, Jim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 14, 2008 Report Share Posted May 14, 2008 I have treated patients who have this diagnosis and are on meds, but this was not the chief complaint that brought them to see me. As I treated them constitutionally for their other concerns, they reported that their bipolar and hypomania symptoms also improved. wrote: I think I've helped people with bipolar disease but also I find that those that really need medication, really need medication. If your patient hopes to stop taking medication by your treatments I would be very, very wary. The last patient I had like this was a disaster if only because she got quickly better with my treatments and then when she started to unravel again it was very unpleasant for everyone involved. On the other hand I've had patients who have done well with Tian Wan Bu Xin Dan, for example, when they seem to be on the borderline. Doug , " James P Slaymaker, L Ac " wrote: > > Dear All, > I am wondering if anyone has successfully treated patients with a > western diagnosis of bipolar, specifically those who have more frequent > (bimonthly) hypomanic episodes, but less depression. If so, do you mind > sharing your experiences. You can email me directly if that is more > comfortable for you to share. > All the best, Jim > --- Chinese Herbal Medicine offers various professional services, including a practitioner's directory and a moderated discussion forum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 14, 2008 Report Share Posted May 14, 2008 Please be very careful treating BAD. The Chinese literature suggests that CM does not treat BAD very effectively. At best, according to the CM literature, BAD should be treated with integrated CM-WM. The danger is that the patient may abandon their Western meds, become manic, and get involuntarily hospitalized. They may then lose 1-2 years out of their life. I have personally seen this happen with an acupuncturist who was hospitalized this way two times, each time trying to treat themself only with acupuncture/CM. Bob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 14, 2008 Report Share Posted May 14, 2008 I agree with Bob. I've had a number of patients over the years with BAD (never liked that abbreviation for obvious reasons). A few of them did very well with Chinese medicine, one was able to reclaim her life, marry and write a book of poetry. However, against my advice, she stopped all medication, herbs and treatment, and had a total breakdown on a pleasure trip to Paris that set her back several years in progress. The problem seems to be that the initial stages of the manic phase feels so good that drugs seem irrelevant, plus their side effects can be pretty gnarly. My ex-brother-in-law visited me recently, and he is struggling to survive at 66 years old, he can barely function after years of on and off medication, and much destructive behavior. I lost my first Chinese language tutor, a young man who I also treated who a year after leaving San Diego stopped his meds, and his body was found washed up on the shores of Eilat in Israel. Accept and treat these patients with great caution. And be careful to not be exhausted by the proposition of treating these patients. A bipolar/hypomanic patient requires a great investment of time and qi. On May 14, 2008, at 10:18 AM, Bob Flaws wrote: > Please be very careful treating BAD. The Chinese literature suggests > that CM does not treat BAD very effectively. At best, according to the > CM literature, BAD should be treated with integrated CM-WM. The danger > is that the patient may abandon their Western meds, become manic, and > get involuntarily hospitalized. They may then lose 1-2 years out of > their life. I have personally seen this happen with an acupuncturist > who was hospitalized this way two times, each time trying to treat > themself only with acupuncture/CM. > > Bob > > > Chair, Department of Herbal Medicine Pacific College of Oriental Medicine San Diego, Ca. 92122 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 14, 2008 Report Share Posted May 14, 2008 The best understanding of bipolar disorder is in Dragon Rises, Red Bird Flies by Dr. Leon Hammer in which he describes it as a breakdown of the Triple Burner function of regulating the thermostatic functions in it's control of the water-wood-fire balance. Regulating the Triple Burner, and nourishing Kidneys, while regulating either the wood or fire depending on which stage one finds the patient would be the treatment principle. Ross Rosen, JD, LAc, CA, Dipl OM (NCCAOM) Center for Acupuncture and Herbal Medicine 166 Mountain Ave. Westfield, NJ 07090 (908) 654-4333 http://www.acupunctureandherbalmedicine.com Chinese Medicine , " James P Slaymaker, L Ac " <acupuncture2heal wrote: > > Dear All, > I am wondering if anyone has successfully treated patients with a > western diagnosis of bipolar, specifically those who have more frequent > (bimonthly) hypomanic episodes, but less depression. If so, do you mind > sharing your experiences. You can email me directly if that is more > comfortable for you to share. > All the best, Jim > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 15, 2008 Report Share Posted May 15, 2008 thank you Z'ev <zrosenbe wrote: I agree with Bob. I've had a number of patients over the years with BAD (never liked that abbreviation for obvious reasons). A few of them did very well with Chinese medicine, one was able to reclaim her life, marry and write a book of poetry. However, against my advice, she stopped all medication, herbs and treatment, and had a total breakdown on a pleasure trip to Paris that set her back several years in progress. The problem seems to be that the initial stages of the manic phase feels so good that drugs seem irrelevant, plus their side effects can be pretty gnarly. My ex-brother-in-law visited me recently, and he is struggling to survive at 66 years old, he can barely function after years of on and off medication, and much destructive behavior. I lost my first Chinese language tutor, a young man who I also treated who a year after leaving San Diego stopped his meds, and his body was found washed up on the shores of Eilat in Israel. Accept and treat these patients with great caution. And be careful to not be exhausted by the proposition of treating these patients. A bipolar/hypomanic patient requires a great investment of time and qi. On May 14, 2008, at 10:18 AM, Bob Flaws wrote: > Please be very careful treating BAD. The Chinese literature suggests > that CM does not treat BAD very effectively. At best, according to the > CM literature, BAD should be treated with integrated CM-WM. The danger > is that the patient may abandon their Western meds, become manic, and > get involuntarily hospitalized. They may then lose 1-2 years out of > their life. I have personally seen this happen with an acupuncturist > who was hospitalized this way two times, each time trying to treat > themself only with acupuncture/CM. > > Bob > > > Chair, Department of Herbal Medicine Pacific College of Oriental Medicine San Diego, Ca. 92122 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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