Prednisone

[Guest guest]

Hello,

I was wondering if there are any experts or experienced practitioners

who know how to deal with patients that have been on prednisone or

other steroids for a long time. The person in question has been on

low to medium doses for over 20 years now. The side effects are no

longer tolerable and he is having a hard time getting off of it. The

MDs would say his in adrenal exhaustion. His symptoms are difficult

to understand because he has the disease that was being treated with

prednisone and he has the 'disease' of drug side effects. Trying to

piece out the prednisone effects the symptoms are insomnia, irritable,

extreme fatigue, afternoon/evening hot flashes, sweats easily and a

lot, low libido, osteopenia, muscle weakness, easily exhausted, high

blood pressure, fast pulse. Tongue, pulse, nails seem to point to yin

deficiency, excess heat and dampness and stagnation of qi and blood.

I have tried treatment for this with needles and some herbal formulas

but wondering if I am missing something or if doses need to be more

than usual.

Thank you.

[Guest guest]

What is the original disease being treated by the prednisone, and

specifics of the tongue pulse and nails?

 

Yin vacuity, damp heat, qi depression and blood stasis are all

possible side effects of prednisone, but more info is needed. The

Chinese have written about this in their CM medical journals, and it

is called 'steroid pattern'. There are good protocols for treating

patients with these problems. One base prescription that comes to

mind is xiao chai hu tang plus liu wei di huang wan. . .

 

 

 

On May 15, 2008, at 3:26 AM, bharasha wrote:

 

> Hello,

> I was wondering if there are any experts or experienced practitioners

> who know how to deal with patients that have been on prednisone or

> other steroids for a long time. The person in question has been on

> low to medium doses for over 20 years now. The side effects are no

> longer tolerable and he is having a hard time getting off of it. The

> MDs would say his in adrenal exhaustion. His symptoms are difficult

> to understand because he has the disease that was being treated with

> prednisone and he has the 'disease' of drug side effects. Trying to

> piece out the prednisone effects the symptoms are insomnia, irritable,

> extreme fatigue, afternoon/evening hot flashes, sweats easily and a

> lot, low libido, osteopenia, muscle weakness, easily exhausted, high

> blood pressure, fast pulse. Tongue, pulse, nails seem to point to yin

> deficiency, excess heat and dampness and stagnation of qi and blood.

> I have tried treatment for this with needles and some herbal formulas

> but wondering if I am missing something or if doses need to be more

> than usual.

> Thank you.

>

>

>

 

 

Chair, Department of Herbal Medicine

Pacific College of Oriental Medicine

San Diego, Ca. 92122

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Thank you so much for the reply. This has been a lifelong struggle which

has put me on disability and a feeling of the end of life approaching. I

will not give up though.

 

The original disease has been a mystery for all doctors working with me. I

started with western medicine and they wanted to treat it as an autoimmune

disease so I used immunosuppressants for 5 years without success until

prednisone helped. What outward symptoms are lesions on and under my skin.

On the skin it looks like vasculitis (inflammation of the small blood

vessels) which looks like little rashes that turn to sores that open up -

extremely painful, red, inflamed and the tissue eventually dies. Under the

skin it looks like red nodules, again very painful, inflamed and they may

eventually open and leave deep ulcers that do not heal (they call this

panniculitis - inflammation of subcutaneous fat). Untreated they will

number 30-50 at a time. Along with this are joint pains and extreme fatigue

and diarrhea (skin things may be happening in intestines) and terrible

insomnia. They have found no cause or explanation they just see immune

cells and inflammation on biopsy samples. After 10 years of Prednisone I

went to chiropractic school and was exposed to many different ideas on

spinal health, diet, supplements, energy medicine, emotional healing and

finally TCM. I spent 2 years working with Dr. Guo (of Life Rising) and a

good acupuncturist here. They seemed to have trouble controlling it too

(however Dr.Guo is 5 hours aways from me so I only saw him occasionally).

He usually came up with a formula for excess heat, damp, stagnation and wind

with yin def. and blood stagnation. After 10 years of these 'alternative'

methods I am back to western medicine (disability gave me medicare and

Barnes hospital is here). So back to heavy (but more targeting)

immunosuppressants.

 

 

 

Currently tongue looks horrible - thick white patches, middle has white

sometimes yellow coating, back has always had thick white coating, fissures

all along the side and a deep crack in the middle near the front. Whole

tongue is generally red. (I know there is more than usual damp and

damp/heat right now). Nails are red/purple with vertical ridges, cuticle

'moons' only on thumbs, no spots, not brittle. Pulse is fast, tight,

slippery and bounding (can not find the emptiness I would expect because of

the bounding).

 

 

 

My whole problem is that not only is this disease process very aggressive

but I have been on prednisone 20 years and many other immunosuppressants off

and on during that time. I have to treat the medication and the underlying

problem. I feel like I need very close supervision and maybe much higher

doses than I am used to using. I also have the whole problem of being so

sick that I can not work and do not have money to afford a doctor and even a

lot of herbs (I would find a way to afford herbs if I was sure I had the

right formulas and they were helping, but so far the things I try do not

help).

 

 

 

So I have been mildly working with yin def., spleen def., draining heat and

damp/heat, moving blood, tonifying qi and blood - without any noticeable

changes.

 

 

 

Finally, if anyone can point me references on " steroid patten " and strange

autoimmune-like disorders that would be helpful.

 

 

 

Thank you.

 

 

 

 

 

<What is the original disease being treated by the prednisone, and

specifics of the tongue pulse and nails?

 

Yin vacuity, damp heat, qi depression and blood stasis are all

possible side effects of prednisone, but more info is needed. The

Chinese have written about this in their CM medical journals, and it

is called 'steroid pattern'. There are good protocols for treating

patients with these problems. One base prescription that comes to

mind is xiao chai hu tang plus liu wei di huang wan. . .

 

>