Guest guest Posted May 16, 2008 Report Share Posted May 16, 2008 Hi Will and Kath This is very interesting. I have a patient who has been in remission from malignant melanoma for 9 years. Before he went into remission he had already had a number of operations and. some chemotherapy, but lost faith as it was having little beneficial affect. He then decided to go the whole hog with the alternative route of nutrition and and a number of complimentary therapies. Now he is a very healthy individual, leading a normal life. One of the operations he had was to the removal of lymph nodes under the left arm . These days we always know when an acupuncture treatment is progressing well when this area starts to violently twitch. Usually the response while this happening is that he becomes more relaxed and his complexion improves. There is also no one particular treatment that causes this. Although as I use both TCM and 5 Element styles, he frequently needs the dispersal of dampness and phlegm, and in diagnosing him as an Earth CF I usually finish treatment using Spleen and Stomach points. My simplistic take on this was that it may well be affecting the connection between SP.21 and Ht.1 Sp.21 being the Luo Connecting channel for the body. Your theory seems to give his response a much deeper explanation and significance, both in respect of the use of points and his original illness. Thank you. Helene > Hi Kath, > > You are inquiring into an area that has long been an interest for me. > I first encountered it in 1982 when I worked the NeoReichian institute > in Santa Monica, CA. I donâ?Tt know if this relates to what your patient > experienced, but I definitely classify what I am about to describe as > different from the twitching qi needling technique. I pulled this from > an article that I have been working on and searching for a place to > publish. It is tweaked a bit for this forum. > > The moral and conceptual development of boundaries in the child may be > the beginnings of what Wilhelm Reich (1980) called â?~character > armoring.â?T Reich, a student of Freud conceived of the character and > trauma of life to bind into the tissues â? " a view that was in stark > contrast to the archetypal focus of the Jungian perspective. > Character armoring involves attitudes used to block against emotional > excitations. This generates corresponding muscle rigidity and > interferes with emotional contact (Reich, 1980). > > The application of this concept by Reich led him to combining > breathing techniques with various methods to stress the tissue sites > where the armoring could be observed. This might be through holding > postures for extended periods of time in order to get tissues to > release, or it might be deep tissue work similar to Rolfing in order > to get a discharge. The discharge often involved shaking or a state > called â?~vibratoryâ?T. The important activity when discharge is > occurring is breathing and for the practitioner to observe where the > muscle structures are becoming tense, so that the patient may be > directed to release those structures whole the vibratory state unfolds. > > Possibly connected to this business of vibratory, twitching and > shaking are the functions of the defensive qi. The defensive qi warms > the body, fills the soft tissues with qi, controls the opening and > closing of the sweat pores, and nourishes the interstices and > connective tissues between the skin, muscle and organs. Ancient > Chinese herbalist Luo Tianyi in 1343 suggested that the defensive qi > warms the muscles, nourishes the skin and skin hair, controls the > opening and closing of the pores and consequently, the sweat (Luo, > 1987). These tissue areas are the locations where the process of > character armoring as described by Reich (1980) is somatized. The > defensive qi flows throughout the superficial interstices, connective > tissues and muscle structures during the daytime and the conscious > waking periods. At night and during the dream time, the defensive qi > flows inwardly throughout the deeper connective tissues and > structures. Spreading out over the surface of the organs and > throughout the deeper interstices it connects to the deeply subjective > states and the essence. When it flows on the surface there are links > to the objective world and the boundary between self and other. At the > interior, it connects to the internal boundaries and conflicts. As the > defensive moves to the interior during the night, dream time brings > resolution to many conflicts of the borderlands where we draw the > lines of our existence. > > I surmise that shaking opens up the divergent channels from the > interior to the exterior. When shaking acupuncture is performed, it is > as though spirit enters the practitioner and an ecstatic shaking > similar to that in Bushman Shamanism. This well-performed shaking > needling technique seems similar shaking that occurs in certain forms > of Qi Gung when it becomes non-intentional and ecstatic. It is similar > to the shaking of the Shakers, Quakers and Kundalini. For me it is an > ecstatic opening and an indication of powerful treatment where the > character armoring is loosened. The defenses against the world soften > from this. > > So, I donâ?Tt know if this is the twitching you are referring to, but I > thought I would see what people think about this concept. > > References > > Luo, T. (1987). Precious mirror of hygiene (C. Zhu, Trans.). In The > chinese english medical dictionary: Peopleâ?Ts Hygiene Press. > Reich, W. (1980). Character analysis (V. Carfagno, Trans. 3 ed.). New > York: Farrar, Straus and Giroux. > > Warmly, > > Will > > > William R. Morris, DAOM, MSEd, LAc > http://theccrt.com/ > http://www.aoma.edu/ > http://www.pulsediagnosis.com/ > > When individuals come together with a shared intention, in a conducive > environment, something mysterious can come into being, with capacities > and intelligences that far transcend those of the individuals involved. > > > > Chinese Medicine , " Kath Bartlett, > MS, LAc " wrote: >> >> i recently had a patient twitching after particularly strong tx. we saw >> good results from those tx (migraines were not involved, but a > complicated >> case with lots of varied symptoms). i also interpreted the reaction > as Wind >> stirring, and the body doing what it needed to do to get balanced. >> >> kath >> >> On Tue, May 13, 2008 at 5:35 PM, Nancy Corsaro <eastwestacup >> wrote: >> >> > New patient age 47 with 20 years of migraines experienced twitching >> > during each of 3 treatments. First time, her foot twitched; second >> > time, 6 or 7 times in legs; today, in her knees and arms, 3 times. Am >> > I moving Wind and is this good, bad or indifferent? I am treating >> > Liver Yang rising with Liv 3, GB43, GB 38, LI4 and local points on the >> > head, usually on GB channel, and Taiyang. >> > Secondly, the frequency of headaches has increased during the 10 days >> > between the 3 treatments. Is this unusual? Or a 'healing crisis' >> > perhaps? Any and all thoughts are appreciated. >> > >> > >> > >> >> >> >> -- >> >> Oriental Medicine >> Experienced, Dedicated, Effective >> >> Flying Dragon Liniment: >> Effective pain relief for muscles & joints >> Formulated by Kath Bartlett, Traditional Chinese Herbalist >> Available at Asheville Center for , or web order at: >> https://www.kamwo.com/shop/product.php?productid=17442 & cat=0 & page=1 >> >> >> Asheville Center For >> 70 Woodfin Place, Suite West Wing Two >> Asheville, NC 28801 828.258.2777 >> kbartlett >> www.AcupunctureAsheville.com >> >> >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 16, 2008 Report Share Posted May 16, 2008 I myself have experienced twitching while receiving acupuncture. In my case it was very similar to a twitch that often happens while falling asleep. My impression is that the twitch is just a release of constrained qi. I think it is a perfectly natural thing to happen and it is a sign that the treatment is working to release constraint. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 16, 2008 Report Share Posted May 16, 2008 hmm. my patient who has twitched during tx is on symbalta. i don't know what drug category it falls under. kath On Thu, May 15, 2008 at 10:45 PM, Zhen Zhen <glam70 wrote: > Different meds can cause twitching, such as most > antidepressants. This worsens and becomes more > frequent when one is increasing dosage or titrating > off of the meds. SSRI's are particularly notable for > this. > > -jenn holley > > Jennifer Holley, L.Ac. > The Lotus Center > 1085 Valencia Street > San Francisco, CA 94110 > 415.238.0663 > jennholleylac <jennholleylac%40> > > > -- Oriental Medicine Experienced, Dedicated, Effective Flying Dragon Liniment: Effective pain relief for muscles & joints Formulated by Kath Bartlett, Traditional Chinese Herbalist Available at Asheville Center for , or web order at: https://www.kamwo.com/shop/product.php?productid=17442 & cat=0 & page=1 Asheville Center For 70 Woodfin Place, Suite West Wing Two Asheville, NC 28801 828.258.2777 kbartlett www.AcupunctureAsheville.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 16, 2008 Report Share Posted May 16, 2008 Cymbalta on its website lists tremor in 2-5% of patients. It is used for generalized anxiety disorder. Very possibly this is a contributing factor here. I always do google searches on every drug my patients take, as the side effects are all too often causative of many of the symptoms we see in our patients. On May 16, 2008, at 11:24 AM, wrote: > hmm. my patient who has twitched during tx is on symbalta. i don't > know > what drug category it falls under. > > kath Chair, Department of Herbal Medicine Pacific College of Oriental Medicine San Diego, Ca. 92122 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 17, 2008 Report Share Posted May 17, 2008 that makes sense to me. it this case, her legs were lightly shaking for a good 5+ minutes. she's a complicated assemblage of patterns, so i didn't worry about it. just figured the tx was doing what it needed to do for her. it happened a couple of times. acupuncture is an interesting experience. k On Fri, May 16, 2008 at 1:33 PM, znelms <znelms wrote: > I myself have experienced twitching while receiving acupuncture. > In my case it was very similar to a twitch that often happens while > falling asleep. My impression is that the twitch is just a release of > constrained qi. I think it is a perfectly natural thing to happen and > it is a sign that the treatment is working to release constraint. > > > -- Oriental Medicine Experienced, Dedicated, Effective Flying Dragon Liniment: Effective pain relief for muscles & joints Formulated by Kath Bartlett, Traditional Chinese Herbalist Available at Asheville Center for , or web order at: https://www.kamwo.com/shop/product.php?productid=17442 & cat=0 & page=1 Asheville Center For 70 Woodfin Place, Suite West Wing Two Asheville, NC 28801 828.258.2777 kbartlett www.AcupunctureAsheville.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 17, 2008 Report Share Posted May 17, 2008 Kath Helene and All - The shaking we have discussed here includes the following correlates: chemically induced, psycho-social releases and nerve affectations. I will return to the shaking that I was referring to which is in the domain of the psychosocial release. We have discussed sinew vessels, luo and divergents. It seems to me that any channel systems that communcate between the interior and exterior will be involved. It seems that the armoring often somatizes first in the muscular structures. As it becomes chronic, the " pathogens' move towards the interior and somatize as internal lesions in the form of viscera and bowel patterns. The shaking that is generated in NeoReichian work is intentional and is one of the therapeutic strategies. In acupuncture, my expereince is that many practitioners are uncomfortable with the shaking and attempt to suppress it. And - then, the Kalahari bushmen shamans consider it to be a part of normal social interaction. If we pathologize it, we can call it wind and treat it... Warmly, Will Chinese Medicine , " Mcmurtrie-Watson " <HENCALIBAN wrote: > > Hi Will and Kath > > This is very interesting. I have a patient who has been in remission from > malignant melanoma for 9 years. Before he went into remission he had > already had a number of operations and. some chemotherapy, but lost faith > as it was having little beneficial affect. He then decided to go the whole > hog with the alternative route of nutrition and and a number of > complimentary therapies. Now he is a very healthy individual, leading a > normal life. > > One of the operations he had was to the removal of lymph nodes under the > left arm . These days we always know when an acupuncture treatment is > progressing well when this area starts to violently twitch. Usually the > response while this happening is that he becomes more relaxed and his > complexion improves. There is also no one particular treatment that causes > this. Although as I use both TCM and 5 Element styles, he frequently > needs the dispersal of dampness and phlegm, and in diagnosing him as an > Earth CF I usually finish treatment using Spleen and Stomach points. My > simplistic take on this was that it may well be affecting the connection > between SP.21 and Ht.1 Sp.21 being the Luo Connecting channel for the > body. Your theory seems to give his response a much deeper explanation and > significance, both in respect of the use of points and his original illness. > Thank you. > > Helene > > > Hi Kath, > > > > You are inquiring into an area that has long been an interest for me. > > I first encountered it in 1982 when I worked the NeoReichian institute > > in Santa Monica, CA. I don�?Tt know if this relates to what your patient > > experienced, but I definitely classify what I am about to describe as > > different from the twitching qi needling technique. I pulled this from > > an article that I have been working on and searching for a place to > > publish. It is tweaked a bit for this forum. > > > > The moral and conceptual development of boundaries in the child may be > > the beginnings of what Wilhelm Reich (1980) called �?~character > > armoring.�?T Reich, a student of Freud conceived of the character and > > trauma of life to bind into the tissues �? " a view that was in stark > > contrast to the archetypal focus of the Jungian perspective. > > Character armoring involves attitudes used to block against emotional > > excitations. This generates corresponding muscle rigidity and > > interferes with emotional contact (Reich, 1980). > > > > The application of this concept by Reich led him to combining > > breathing techniques with various methods to stress the tissue sites > > where the armoring could be observed. This might be through holding > > postures for extended periods of time in order to get tissues to > > release, or it might be deep tissue work similar to Rolfing in order > > to get a discharge. The discharge often involved shaking or a state > > called �?~vibratory�?T. The important activity when discharge is > > occurring is breathing and for the practitioner to observe where the > > muscle structures are becoming tense, so that the patient may be > > directed to release those structures whole the vibratory state unfolds. > > > > Possibly connected to this business of vibratory, twitching and > > shaking are the functions of the defensive qi. The defensive qi warms > > the body, fills the soft tissues with qi, controls the opening and > > closing of the sweat pores, and nourishes the interstices and > > connective tissues between the skin, muscle and organs. Ancient > > Chinese herbalist Luo Tianyi in 1343 suggested that the defensive qi > > warms the muscles, nourishes the skin and skin hair, controls the > > opening and closing of the pores and consequently, the sweat (Luo, > > 1987). These tissue areas are the locations where the process of > > character armoring as described by Reich (1980) is somatized. The > > defensive qi flows throughout the superficial interstices, connective > > tissues and muscle structures during the daytime and the conscious > > waking periods. At night and during the dream time, the defensive qi > > flows inwardly throughout the deeper connective tissues and > > structures. Spreading out over the surface of the organs and > > throughout the deeper interstices it connects to the deeply subjective > > states and the essence. When it flows on the surface there are links > > to the objective world and the boundary between self and other. At the > > interior, it connects to the internal boundaries and conflicts. As the > > defensive moves to the interior during the night, dream time brings > > resolution to many conflicts of the borderlands where we draw the > > lines of our existence. > > > > I surmise that shaking opens up the divergent channels from the > > interior to the exterior. When shaking acupuncture is performed, it is > > as though spirit enters the practitioner and an ecstatic shaking > > similar to that in Bushman Shamanism. This well-performed shaking > > needling technique seems similar shaking that occurs in certain forms > > of Qi Gung when it becomes non-intentional and ecstatic. It is similar > > to the shaking of the Shakers, Quakers and Kundalini. For me it is an > > ecstatic opening and an indication of powerful treatment where the > > character armoring is loosened. The defenses against the world soften > > from this. > > > > So, I don�?Tt know if this is the twitching you are referring to, but I > > thought I would see what people think about this concept. > > > > References > > > > Luo, T. (1987). Precious mirror of hygiene (C. Zhu, Trans.). In The > > chinese english medical dictionary: People�?Ts Hygiene Press. > > Reich, W. (1980). Character analysis (V. Carfagno, Trans. 3 ed.). New > > York: Farrar, Straus and Giroux. > > > > Warmly, > > > > Will > > > > > > William R. Morris, DAOM, MSEd, LAc > > http://theccrt.com/ > > http://www.aoma.edu/ > > http://www.pulsediagnosis.com/ > > > > When individuals come together with a shared intention, in a conducive > > environment, something mysterious can come into being, with capacities > > and intelligences that far transcend those of the individuals involved. > > > > > > > > Chinese Medicine , " Kath Bartlett, > > MS, LAc " <acukath@> wrote: > >> > >> i recently had a patient twitching after particularly strong tx. we saw > >> good results from those tx (migraines were not involved, but a > > complicated > >> case with lots of varied symptoms). i also interpreted the reaction > > as Wind > >> stirring, and the body doing what it needed to do to get balanced. > >> > >> kath > >> > >> On Tue, May 13, 2008 at 5:35 PM, Nancy Corsaro <eastwestacup@> > >> wrote: > >> > >> > New patient age 47 with 20 years of migraines experienced twitching > >> > during each of 3 treatments. First time, her foot twitched; second > >> > time, 6 or 7 times in legs; today, in her knees and arms, 3 times. Am > >> > I moving Wind and is this good, bad or indifferent? I am treating > >> > Liver Yang rising with Liv 3, GB43, GB 38, LI4 and local points on the > >> > head, usually on GB channel, and Taiyang. > >> > Secondly, the frequency of headaches has increased during the 10 days > >> > between the 3 treatments. Is this unusual? Or a 'healing crisis' > >> > perhaps? Any and all thoughts are appreciated. > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > >> > >> > >> -- > >> > >> Oriental Medicine > >> Experienced, Dedicated, Effective > >> > >> Flying Dragon Liniment: > >> Effective pain relief for muscles & joints > >> Formulated by Kath Bartlett, Traditional Chinese Herbalist > >> Available at Asheville Center for , or web order at: > >> https://www.kamwo.com/shop/product.php?productid=17442 & cat=0 & page=1 > >> > >> > >> Asheville Center For > >> 70 Woodfin Place, Suite West Wing Two > >> Asheville, NC 28801 828.258.2777 > >> kbartlett@ > >> www.AcupunctureAsheville.com > >> > >> > >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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