Guest guest Posted May 20, 2008 Report Share Posted May 20, 2008 Tried to post this before, trying again... Hello all, A friend recently told me of her mother's sudden loss of the ability to taste upon taking the anti-fungal medication Lamisil (terbinafine). She was being treated for persistent onychomycosis, which was only partially reduced by the drug. I have read that loss of taste is among the known side effects of Lamisil (pretty nasty stuff to take internally!), but I was wondering how this complaint would be classified in terms of TCM signs for pattern discrimination. Unfortunately because I do not live near her, I have not had the opportunity to do an intake or examination of the patient, so I cannot give more details for diagnosis. I'm just wondering if anyone has come across lack of taste before, and if this fits into any known tcm patterns? Apparently there is not a bitter taste or sweet taste, etc., just a complete lack of the ability to discern tastes in foods. The drug was stopped around a month ago, but her sense of taste has not returned. Additionally, if anyone in the Denver area thinks that they would like to tackle this case, send me your clinic information and I will pass it along to her! Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 21, 2008 Report Share Posted May 21, 2008 Senses relate to the sensory jing, taste relates to the sensorial jing function of the spleen, extra points work on the jing, " sweet taste " is the point of the sensorial jing of the spleen...Also there is an extra point inside the nostrils that has some effect. You can also moxa the spleen shu point to increase the conversion of nutritive ying to jing... Chinese Medicine , " ali_dan313 " <danfischer wrote: > > Tried to post this before, trying again... > > Hello all, > > A friend recently told me of her mother's sudden loss of the ability > to taste upon taking the anti-fungal medication Lamisil (terbinafine). > She was being treated for persistent onychomycosis, which was only > partially reduced by the drug. > > I have read that loss of taste is among the known side effects of > Lamisil (pretty nasty stuff to take internally!), but I was wondering > how this complaint would be classified in terms of TCM signs for > pattern discrimination. > > Unfortunately because I do not live near her, I have not had the > opportunity to do an intake or examination of the patient, so I cannot > give more details for diagnosis. > > I'm just wondering if anyone has come across lack of taste before, and > if this fits into any known tcm patterns? Apparently there is not a > bitter taste or sweet taste, etc., just a complete lack of the ability > to discern tastes in foods. The drug was stopped around a month ago, > but her sense of taste has not returned. > > Additionally, if anyone in the Denver area thinks that they would like > to tackle this case, send me your clinic information and I will pass > it along to her! > > Thanks! > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 21, 2008 Report Share Posted May 21, 2008 Hi Dan Just came across this 'disease' in my Herbal Medicine Class on herbs and formulas for treating Dampness. My teacher, dr. Yang Yifan, said that " if a person cannot make any difference in taste, this is a case of Dampness covering the Heart caused by Spleen creating Dampness " . The herbs she gave related to this are " Huo Xiang " and " Pei Lan " . Hope this can be of any use for you. Alwin Chinese Medicine , " ali_dan313 " <danfischer wrote: > > Tried to post this before, trying again... > > Hello all, > > A friend recently told me of her mother's sudden loss of the ability > to taste upon taking the anti-fungal medication Lamisil (terbinafine). > She was being treated for persistent onychomycosis, which was only > partially reduced by the drug. > > I have read that loss of taste is among the known side effects of > Lamisil (pretty nasty stuff to take internally!), but I was wondering > how this complaint would be classified in terms of TCM signs for > pattern discrimination. > > Unfortunately because I do not live near her, I have not had the > opportunity to do an intake or examination of the patient, so I cannot > give more details for diagnosis. > > I'm just wondering if anyone has come across lack of taste before, and > if this fits into any known tcm patterns? Apparently there is not a > bitter taste or sweet taste, etc., just a complete lack of the ability > to discern tastes in foods. The drug was stopped around a month ago, > but her sense of taste has not returned. > > Additionally, if anyone in the Denver area thinks that they would like > to tackle this case, send me your clinic information and I will pass > it along to her! > > Thanks! > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 22, 2008 Report Share Posted May 22, 2008 That's great info, really anything toxic such as side effects of meds can be grouped into " phlegm " . The heart is involved because the tongue relates to heart, in the case the poster asked the spleen is not creating the dampness but the dampness IS the meds. Hou xiang has a nice aromatic property that steams phlegm. Chinese Medicine , " Alwin van Egmond " <-groups wrote: > > Hi Dan > > Just came across this 'disease' in my Herbal Medicine Class on herbs > and formulas for treating Dampness. > > My teacher, dr. Yang Yifan, said that " if a person cannot make any > difference in taste, this is a case of Dampness covering the Heart > caused by Spleen creating Dampness " . The herbs she gave related to > this are " Huo Xiang " and " Pei Lan " . > > Hope this can be of any use for you. > > Alwin > > Chinese Medicine , " ali_dan313 " > <danfischer@> wrote: > > > > Tried to post this before, trying again... > > > > Hello all, > > > > A friend recently told me of her mother's sudden loss of the ability > > to taste upon taking the anti-fungal medication Lamisil > (terbinafine). > > She was being treated for persistent onychomycosis, which was only > > partially reduced by the drug. > > > > I have read that loss of taste is among the known side effects of > > Lamisil (pretty nasty stuff to take internally!), but I was > wondering > > how this complaint would be classified in terms of TCM signs for > > pattern discrimination. > > > > Unfortunately because I do not live near her, I have not had the > > opportunity to do an intake or examination of the patient, so I > cannot > > give more details for diagnosis. > > > > I'm just wondering if anyone has come across lack of taste before, > and > > if this fits into any known tcm patterns? Apparently there is not a > > bitter taste or sweet taste, etc., just a complete lack of the > ability > > to discern tastes in foods. The drug was stopped around a month > ago, > > but her sense of taste has not returned. > > > > Additionally, if anyone in the Denver area thinks that they would > like > > to tackle this case, send me your clinic information and I will pass > > it along to her! > > > > Thanks! > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 22, 2008 Report Share Posted May 22, 2008 I have seen this a few times in my practice after the repetitive use of antibiotics (loss of taste and smell). Arousing and strengthening the Spleen and dealing with dampness provided cures. Ross Rosen, JD, MSTOM, LAc, CA, Dipl OM (NCCAOM) Center for Acupuncture and Herbal Medicine 166 Mountain Ave. Westfield, NJ 07090 (908) 654-4333 http://www.acupunctureandherbalmedicine.com Chinese Medicine , " Alwin van Egmond " <-groups wrote: > > Hi Dan > > Just came across this 'disease' in my Herbal Medicine Class on herbs > and formulas for treating Dampness. > > My teacher, dr. Yang Yifan, said that " if a person cannot make any > difference in taste, this is a case of Dampness covering the Heart > caused by Spleen creating Dampness " . The herbs she gave related to > this are " Huo Xiang " and " Pei Lan " . > > Hope this can be of any use for you. > > Alwin > > Chinese Medicine , " ali_dan313 " > <danfischer@> wrote: > > > > Tried to post this before, trying again... > > > > Hello all, > > > > A friend recently told me of her mother's sudden loss of the ability > > to taste upon taking the anti-fungal medication Lamisil > (terbinafine). > > She was being treated for persistent onychomycosis, which was only > > partially reduced by the drug. > > > > I have read that loss of taste is among the known side effects of > > Lamisil (pretty nasty stuff to take internally!), but I was > wondering > > how this complaint would be classified in terms of TCM signs for > > pattern discrimination. > > > > Unfortunately because I do not live near her, I have not had the > > opportunity to do an intake or examination of the patient, so I > cannot > > give more details for diagnosis. > > > > I'm just wondering if anyone has come across lack of taste before, > and > > if this fits into any known tcm patterns? Apparently there is not a > > bitter taste or sweet taste, etc., just a complete lack of the > ability > > to discern tastes in foods. The drug was stopped around a month > ago, > > but her sense of taste has not returned. > > > > Additionally, if anyone in the Denver area thinks that they would > like > > to tackle this case, send me your clinic information and I will pass > > it along to her! > > > > Thanks! > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 23, 2008 Report Share Posted May 23, 2008 This is very interesting. In " Dae Jang Geum " , the most popular tv series of all time in Korea, Taiwan and Hong Kong, the protagonist Jang Geum loses her sense of taste, while she competes to become the chief chef for the king. I have to watch it again, but I don't think they knew what to do for her... Other than huo xiang and pei lan, what acupuncture could help directly? BTW; Jang Geum historically in Korea, became the first and only woman to be the king's personal physician as well as chief chef. Remarkable indeed. It's the ultimate food as medicine drama. On Thu, May 22, 2008 at 5:54 AM, rossrosen <rossrosen wrote: > I have seen this a few times in my practice after the repetitive use > of antibiotics (loss of taste and smell). Arousing and strengthening > the Spleen and dealing with dampness provided cures. > > Ross Rosen, JD, MSTOM, LAc, CA, Dipl OM (NCCAOM) > Center for Acupuncture and Herbal Medicine > 166 Mountain Ave. > Westfield, NJ 07090 > (908) 654-4333 > http://www.acupunctureandherbalmedicine.com > > > --- In Chinese Medicine <Chinese Medicine%40yaho\ ogroups.com>, > " Alwin van > Egmond " <-groups wrote: > > > > Hi Dan > > > > Just came across this 'disease' in my Herbal Medicine Class on herbs > > and formulas for treating Dampness. > > > > My teacher, dr. Yang Yifan, said that " if a person cannot make any > > difference in taste, this is a case of Dampness covering the Heart > > caused by Spleen creating Dampness " . The herbs she gave related to > > this are " Huo Xiang " and " Pei Lan " . > > > > Hope this can be of any use for you. > > > > Alwin > > > > --- In Chinese Medicine <Chinese Medicine%40yaho\ ogroups.com>, > " ali_dan313 " > > <danfischer@> wrote: > > > > > > Tried to post this before, trying again... > > > > > > Hello all, > > > > > > A friend recently told me of her mother's sudden loss of the ability > > > to taste upon taking the anti-fungal medication Lamisil > > (terbinafine). > > > She was being treated for persistent onychomycosis, which was only > > > partially reduced by the drug. > > > > > > I have read that loss of taste is among the known side effects of > > > Lamisil (pretty nasty stuff to take internally!), but I was > > wondering > > > how this complaint would be classified in terms of TCM signs for > > > pattern discrimination. > > > > > > Unfortunately because I do not live near her, I have not had the > > > opportunity to do an intake or examination of the patient, so I > > cannot > > > give more details for diagnosis. > > > > > > I'm just wondering if anyone has come across lack of taste before, > > and > > > if this fits into any known tcm patterns? Apparently there is not a > > > bitter taste or sweet taste, etc., just a complete lack of the > > ability > > > to discern tastes in foods. The drug was stopped around a month > > ago, > > > but her sense of taste has not returned. > > > > > > Additionally, if anyone in the Denver area thinks that they would > > like > > > to tackle this case, send me your clinic information and I will pass > > > it along to her! > > > > > > Thanks! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- aka Mu bong Lim Father of Bhakti The Four Reliances: Do not rely upon the individual, but rely upon the teaching. As far as teachings go, do not rely upon the words alone, but rely upon the meaning that underlies them. Regarding the meaning, do not rely upon the provisional meaning alone, but rely upon the definitive meaning. And regarding the definitive meaning, do not rely upon ordinary consciousness, but rely upon wisdom awareness. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 23, 2008 Report Share Posted May 23, 2008 I always forget...is zinc def sign loss of taste or smell? bob www.acuherbals.com <johnkokko wrote: This is very interesting. In " Dae Jang Geum " , the most popular tv series of all time in Korea, Taiwan and Hong Kong, the protagonist Jang Geum loses her sense of taste, while she competes to become the chief chef for the king. I have to watch it again, but I don't think they knew what to do for her... Other than huo xiang and pei lan, what acupuncture could help directly? BTW; Jang Geum historically in Korea, became the first and only woman to be the king's personal physician as well as chief chef. Remarkable indeed. It's the ultimate food as medicine drama. On Thu, May 22, 2008 at 5:54 AM, rossrosen <rossrosen wrote: > I have seen this a few times in my practice after the repetitive use > of antibiotics (loss of taste and smell). Arousing and strengthening > the Spleen and dealing with dampness provided cures. > > Ross Rosen, JD, MSTOM, LAc, CA, Dipl OM (NCCAOM) > Center for Acupuncture and Herbal Medicine > 166 Mountain Ave. > Westfield, NJ 07090 > (908) 654-4333 > http://www.acupunctureandherbalmedicine.com > > > --- In Chinese Medicine <Chinese Medicine%40yaho\ ogroups.com>, > " Alwin van > Egmond " <-groups wrote: > > > > Hi Dan > > > > Just came across this 'disease' in my Herbal Medicine Class on herbs > > and formulas for treating Dampness. > > > > My teacher, dr. Yang Yifan, said that " if a person cannot make any > > difference in taste, this is a case of Dampness covering the Heart > > caused by Spleen creating Dampness " . The herbs she gave related to > > this are " Huo Xiang " and " Pei Lan " . > > > > Hope this can be of any use for you. > > > > Alwin > > > > --- In Chinese Medicine <Chinese Medicine%40yaho\ ogroups.com>, > " ali_dan313 " > > <danfischer@> wrote: > > > > > > Tried to post this before, trying again... > > > > > > Hello all, > > > > > > A friend recently told me of her mother's sudden loss of the ability > > > to taste upon taking the anti-fungal medication Lamisil > > (terbinafine). > > > She was being treated for persistent onychomycosis, which was only > > > partially reduced by the drug. > > > > > > I have read that loss of taste is among the known side effects of > > > Lamisil (pretty nasty stuff to take internally!), but I was > > wondering > > > how this complaint would be classified in terms of TCM signs for > > > pattern discrimination. > > > > > > Unfortunately because I do not live near her, I have not had the > > > opportunity to do an intake or examination of the patient, so I > > cannot > > > give more details for diagnosis. > > > > > > I'm just wondering if anyone has come across lack of taste before, > > and > > > if this fits into any known tcm patterns? Apparently there is not a > > > bitter taste or sweet taste, etc., just a complete lack of the > > ability > > > to discern tastes in foods. The drug was stopped around a month > > ago, > > > but her sense of taste has not returned. > > > > > > Additionally, if anyone in the Denver area thinks that they would > > like > > > to tackle this case, send me your clinic information and I will pass > > > it along to her! > > > > > > Thanks! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- aka Mu bong Lim Father of Bhakti The Four Reliances: Do not rely upon the individual, but rely upon the teaching. As far as teachings go, do not rely upon the words alone, but rely upon the meaning that underlies them. Regarding the meaning, do not rely upon the provisional meaning alone, but rely upon the definitive meaning. And regarding the definitive meaning, do not rely upon ordinary consciousness, but rely upon wisdom awareness. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 23, 2008 Report Share Posted May 23, 2008 Bob, Zinc def can lead to loss of taste. Supplementing zinc can bring the taste back.. https://www.emersonecologics.com/Newswire.asp?id=884 Thanks for the tip. Zinc seems to be a " jing " tonic generally. a deficiency can lead to retardation, delayed sexual maturation, hair loss, impotence, immune deficiencies... On Fri, May 23, 2008 at 7:13 AM, Bob Linde, AP, Herbalist < boblindeherbalist wrote: > I always forget...is zinc def sign loss of taste or smell? > bob > www.acuherbals.com > > > <johnkokko <johnkokko%40gmail.com>> wrote: > This is very interesting. In " Dae Jang Geum " , the most popular tv series of > all time > in Korea, Taiwan and Hong Kong, the protagonist Jang Geum loses her sense > of > taste, > while she competes to become the chief chef for the king. > I have to watch it again, but I don't think they knew what to do for her... > > Other than huo xiang and pei lan, > what acupuncture could help directly? > > BTW; Jang Geum historically in Korea, > became the first and only woman to be the king's personal physician as well > as chief chef. > Remarkable indeed. > It's the ultimate food as medicine drama. > > On Thu, May 22, 2008 at 5:54 AM, rossrosen <rossrosen<rossrosen%40gmail.com>> > wrote: > > > I have seen this a few times in my practice after the repetitive use > > of antibiotics (loss of taste and smell). Arousing and strengthening > > the Spleen and dealing with dampness provided cures. > > > > Ross Rosen, JD, MSTOM, LAc, CA, Dipl OM (NCCAOM) > > Center for Acupuncture and Herbal Medicine > > 166 Mountain Ave. > > Westfield, NJ 07090 > > (908) 654-4333 > > http://www.acupunctureandherbalmedicine.com > > > > > > --- In Chinese Medicine <Chinese Medicine%40yaho\ ogroups.com> > <Chinese Medicine%40>, > > " Alwin van > > Egmond " <-groups wrote: > > > > > > Hi Dan > > > > > > Just came across this 'disease' in my Herbal Medicine Class on herbs > > > and formulas for treating Dampness. > > > > > > My teacher, dr. Yang Yifan, said that " if a person cannot make any > > > difference in taste, this is a case of Dampness covering the Heart > > > caused by Spleen creating Dampness " . The herbs she gave related to > > > this are " Huo Xiang " and " Pei Lan " . > > > > > > Hope this can be of any use for you. > > > > > > Alwin > > > > > > --- In Chinese Medicine <Chinese Medicine%40yaho\ ogroups.com> > <Chinese Medicine%40>, > > > " ali_dan313 " > > > <danfischer@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Tried to post this before, trying again... > > > > > > > > Hello all, > > > > > > > > A friend recently told me of her mother's sudden loss of the ability > > > > to taste upon taking the anti-fungal medication Lamisil > > > (terbinafine). > > > > She was being treated for persistent onychomycosis, which was only > > > > partially reduced by the drug. > > > > > > > > I have read that loss of taste is among the known side effects of > > > > Lamisil (pretty nasty stuff to take internally!), but I was > > > wondering > > > > how this complaint would be classified in terms of TCM signs for > > > > pattern discrimination. > > > > > > > > Unfortunately because I do not live near her, I have not had the > > > > opportunity to do an intake or examination of the patient, so I > > > cannot > > > > give more details for diagnosis. > > > > > > > > I'm just wondering if anyone has come across lack of taste before, > > > and > > > > if this fits into any known tcm patterns? Apparently there is not a > > > > bitter taste or sweet taste, etc., just a complete lack of the > > > ability > > > > to discern tastes in foods. The drug was stopped around a month > > > ago, > > > > but her sense of taste has not returned. > > > > > > > > Additionally, if anyone in the Denver area thinks that they would > > > like > > > > to tackle this case, send me your clinic information and I will pass > > > > it along to her! > > > > > > > > Thanks! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > aka Mu bong Lim > Father of Bhakti > > The Four Reliances: > Do not rely upon the individual, but rely upon the teaching. > As far as teachings go, do not rely upon the words alone, but rely upon the > meaning that underlies them. > Regarding the meaning, do not rely upon the provisional meaning alone, but > rely upon the definitive meaning. > And regarding the definitive meaning, do not rely upon ordinary > consciousness, but rely upon wisdom awareness. > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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