Guest guest Posted November 27, 2000 Report Share Posted November 27, 2000 Have you all read http://bmj.com/cgi/content/full/321/7274/1429/a A IBS drug has been taken off the market for adverse side effects. Even though TCM treatment has been scientifically shown to treat this effectively......not many doctors are referring patients with this condition to Lic (Ac) or TCM practitioners ....... Might be a good opportunity for the AAOM for some publicity...I know I will be using it over here. Heiko Lade Registered Acupuncturist / Chinese Herbalist 2 Jenkins St. Green Island, Dunedin New Zealand Tel: (03) 488 4086, Fax: (03) 488 4012 http://www.lade.com/heiko Email: heiko Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 9, 2000 Report Share Posted December 9, 2000 70 cases of serious adverse events, including 49 cases of ischaemic colitis and 21 cases of severe constipation. Of the 70 cases, 34 resulted in admission to hospital without surgery, 10 resulted in surgical procedures, and three resulted in death. >>>Can you imagine if this was an herb alon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 10, 2005 Report Share Posted October 10, 2005 Jan Jenson <vizual DAIRY BREAD SUGAR The three white POISONS are responsible for IBS. Keep eating pizza and you might just DROWN in your own mucous like Flo Jo...! Think it's FUNNY...? Is IBS FUNNY??? DRUGS kill over 200,000 people a year... DRUGS do not cause IBS so they will not cure it either. It's SIMPLE. CHANGE YOUR DIET!!! Drink 4 quarts of WATER a day to flush out those toxins or suffer the consequences I've also taken Valarian and Kava Kava, because both are supposed to help with anxiety/sleeplessness. Didn't notice a difference in the IBS, but both helped me to rest. So far today.....my tummy has cramped a bit, but not terribly bad. And I splurged and ate pizza last night. I didn't eat breakfast this morning, and have only snacked on a few things today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 29, 2006 Report Share Posted July 29, 2006 Treatment of diarrhea-predominant irritable bowel syndrome with traditional chinese herbal medicine: a randomized placebo-controlled trial. Am J Gastroenterol. 2006 Jul;101(7):1574-80. BACKGROUND: As there is no effective treatment for irritable bowel syndrome (IBS), many patients turn to traditional Chinese medicine (TCM) for possible cure. We investigated the therapeutic efficacy of an ancient herbal Chinese formula in patients with diarrhea-predominant IBS. METHODS: This was a randomized double-blinded placebo-controlled trial. Chinese IBS patients with predominant diarrhea symptoms that fulfilled Rome II criteria were recruited. The diagnosis was verified by a TCM herbalist using TCM criteria. Eligible patients were randomized to receive a standard preparation of TCM extracts that contained 11 herbs or placebo with similar appearance and taste for 8 wk after a 2-wk run-in period. Patients were followed up for an additional 8 wk post-treatment. Primary outcome was patient's global symptom assessment. Other outcome measures included individual IBS symptom scores and health-related quality of life (short form 36). RESULTS: One hundred nineteen patients were randomized: 60 to receive TCM and 59 to receive placebo. There was no significant difference in the proportion of patients with global symptom improvement between the TCM and placebo groups at week 8 (35%vs 44.1%, p= 0.38) and at week 16 (31.7%vs 33.9%, p= 0.62). Moreover, there was no difference in individual symptom scores and the quality-of-life assessment between the two groups at all time points. BACKGROUND: The use of this herbal formulation for diarrhea-predominant IBS did not lead to global symptom improvement. Further controlled clinical studies may be necessary to characterize the role of TCM in the management of IBS. Oakland, CA 94609 - Deb Marshall Friday, July 28, 2006 7:36 PM need a referral for Hartford, CT Hi Everyone, I've been treating an in-patient with Guillaine-Barre Syndrome, who's moving to Hartford, CT next week; he also has diabetes, has had heart problems, needs someone who can treat him with acupuncture and herbs and who's willing to do so inexpensively; patient is a retired Roman Catholic priest with limited funds, but his stories and sweet manner are worth a lot. He's responding well to short-term acupuncture but we aren't able to do herbs while he's in the hospital, and that's where he'd benefit most. Can anyone make a referral? Thanks! ---Deb Marshall Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 29, 2006 Report Share Posted July 29, 2006 Does anyone know the formula? - _____ On Behalf Of Saturday, July 29, 2006 12:50 AM Re: IBS Treatment of diarrhea-predominant irritable bowel syndrome with traditional chinese herbal medicine: a randomized placebo-controlled trial. Am J Gastroenterol. 2006 Jul;101(7):1574-80. BACKGROUND: As there is no effective treatment for irritable bowel syndrome (IBS), many patients turn to traditional Chinese medicine (TCM) for possible cure. We investigated the therapeutic efficacy of an ancient herbal Chinese formula in patients with diarrhea-predominant IBS. METHODS: This was a randomized double-blinded placebo-controlled trial. Chinese IBS patients with predominant diarrhea symptoms that fulfilled Rome II criteria were recruited. The diagnosis was verified by a TCM herbalist using TCM criteria. Eligible patients were randomized to receive a standard preparation of TCM extracts that contained 11 herbs or placebo with similar appearance and taste for 8 wk after a 2-wk run-in period. Patients were followed up for an additional 8 wk post-treatment. Primary outcome was patient's global symptom assessment. Other outcome measures included individual IBS symptom scores and health-related quality of life (short form 36). RESULTS: One hundred nineteen patients were randomized: 60 to receive TCM and 59 to receive placebo. There was no significant difference in the proportion of patients with global symptom improvement between the TCM and placebo groups at week 8 (35%vs 44.1%, p= 0.38) and at week 16 (31.7%vs 33.9%, p= 0.62). Moreover, there was no difference in individual symptom scores and the quality-of-life assessment between the two groups at all time points. BACKGROUND: The use of this herbal formulation for diarrhea-predominant IBS did not lead to global symptom improvement. Further controlled clinical studies may be necessary to characterize the role of TCM in the management of IBS. Oakland, CA 94609 - Deb Marshall @ <%40> Friday, July 28, 2006 7:36 PM need a referral for Hartford, CT Hi Everyone, I've been treating an in-patient with Guillaine-Barre Syndrome, who's moving to Hartford, CT next week; he also has diabetes, has had heart problems, needs someone who can treat him with acupuncture and herbs and who's willing to do so inexpensively; patient is a retired Roman Catholic priest with limited funds, but his stories and sweet manner are worth a lot. He's responding well to short-term acupuncture but we aren't able to do herbs while he's in the hospital, and that's where he'd benefit most. Can anyone make a referral? Thanks! ---Deb Marshall Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 29, 2006 Report Share Posted July 29, 2006 ________________________________ on behalf of Sat 7/29/2006 7:36 AM RE: IBS Does anyone know the formula? - _____ <%40> [ <%40> ] On Behalf Of Saturday, July 29, 2006 12:50 AM <%40> Re: IBS Treatment of diarrhea-predominant irritable bowel syndrome with traditional chinese herbal medicine: a randomized placebo-controlled trial. Am J Gastroenterol. 2006 Jul;101(7):1574-80. BACKGROUND: As there is no effective treatment for irritable bowel syndrome (IBS), many patients turn to traditional Chinese medicine (TCM) for possible cure. We investigated the therapeutic efficacy of an ancient herbal Chinese formula in patients with diarrhea-predominant IBS. METHODS: This was a randomized double-blinded placebo-controlled trial. Chinese IBS patients with predominant diarrhea symptoms that fulfilled Rome II criteria were recruited. The diagnosis was verified by a TCM herbalist using TCM criteria. Eligible patients were randomized to receive a standard preparation of TCM extracts that contained 11 herbs or placebo with similar appearance and taste for 8 wk after a 2-wk run-in period. Patients were followed up for an additional 8 wk post-treatment. Primary outcome was patient's global symptom assessment. Other outcome measures included individual IBS symptom scores and health-related quality of life (short form 36). RESULTS: One hundred nineteen patients were randomized: 60 to receive TCM and 59 to receive placebo. There was no significant difference in the proportion of patients with global symptom improvement between the TCM and placebo groups at week 8 (35%vs 44.1%, p= 0.38) and at week 16 (31.7%vs 33.9%, p= 0.62). Moreover, there was no difference in individual symptom scores and the quality-of-life assessment between the two groups at all time points. BACKGROUND: The use of this herbal formulation for diarrhea-predominant IBS did not lead to global symptom improvement. Further controlled clinical studies may be necessary to characterize the role of TCM in the management of IBS. Oakland, CA 94609 - Deb Marshall @ <%40> Friday, July 28, 2006 7:36 PM need a referral for Hartford, CT Hi Everyone, I've been treating an in-patient with Guillaine-Barre Syndrome, who's moving to Hartford, CT next week; he also has diabetes, has had heart problems, needs someone who can treat him with acupuncture and herbs and who's willing to do so inexpensively; patient is a retired Roman Catholic priest with limited funds, but his stories and sweet manner are worth a lot. He's responding well to short-term acupuncture but we aren't able to do herbs while he's in the hospital, and that's where he'd benefit most. Can anyone make a referral? Thanks! ---Deb Marshall Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 29, 2006 Report Share Posted July 29, 2006 , " " wrote: > > Does anyone know the formula? It was a variation on Tong Xie Yao Fang, as listed below (doses are grams/day). Inclusion criteria for the study required the patients to have a diarrhea-predominant presentation, as opposed to primarily constipation or alternating constipation and diarrhea. Bai zhu * Atractylodes macrocephala (rhizome) 15 Huang qi Astragalus membranaceus (root) 15 Bai shao * Paeonia lactiflora (peeled root, fried) 15 Cang zhu Atractylodes chinensis (rhizome) 12 Chai hu* Bupleurum chinense (root) 9 Chen pi* Citrus reticulata (peel) 9 Fang feng Saposhnikovia divaricata (root) 9 Jiu li xiang Murraya paniculata (twigs) 9 Shi Liu Pi Punica grantum (rind) 9 Ma Chi Xian Portulaca oleracea (above-ground parts) 30 Huang Lian* Coptis chinensis (rhizome) 6 * indicates meds present in a previous study cited by the article (Bensoussan's formula) Eric Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 29, 2006 Report Share Posted July 29, 2006 this IBS study shows the importance of sufficient numbers when doing studies, assuming the herbal perpetration was as good as the first study Oakland, CA 94609 - Friday, July 28, 2006 11:49 PM Re: IBS Treatment of diarrhea-predominant irritable bowel syndrome with traditional chinese herbal medicine: a randomized placebo-controlled trial. Am J Gastroenterol. 2006 Jul;101(7):1574-80. BACKGROUND: As there is no effective treatment for irritable bowel syndrome (IBS), many patients turn to traditional Chinese medicine (TCM) for possible cure. We investigated the therapeutic efficacy of an ancient herbal Chinese formula in patients with diarrhea-predominant IBS. METHODS: This was a randomized double-blinded placebo-controlled trial. Chinese IBS patients with predominant diarrhea symptoms that fulfilled Rome II criteria were recruited. The diagnosis was verified by a TCM herbalist using TCM criteria. Eligible patients were randomized to receive a standard preparation of TCM extracts that contained 11 herbs or placebo with similar appearance and taste for 8 wk after a 2-wk run-in period. Patients were followed up for an additional 8 wk post-treatment. Primary outcome was patient's global symptom assessment. Other outcome measures included individual IBS symptom scores and health-related quality of life (short form 36). RESULTS: One hundred nineteen patients were randomized: 60 to receive TCM and 59 to receive placebo. There was no significant difference in the proportion of patients with global symptom improvement between the TCM and placebo groups at week 8 (35%vs 44.1%, p= 0.38) and at week 16 (31.7%vs 33.9%, p= 0.62). Moreover, there was no difference in individual symptom scores and the quality-of-life assessment between the two groups at all time points. BACKGROUND: The use of this herbal formulation for diarrhea-predominant IBS did not lead to global symptom improvement. Further controlled clinical studies may be necessary to characterize the role of TCM in the management of IBS. Oakland, CA 94609 - Deb Marshall Friday, July 28, 2006 7:36 PM need a referral for Hartford, CT Hi Everyone, I've been treating an in-patient with Guillaine-Barre Syndrome, who's moving to Hartford, CT next week; he also has diabetes, has had heart problems, needs someone who can treat him with acupuncture and herbs and who's willing to do so inexpensively; patient is a retired Roman Catholic priest with limited funds, but his stories and sweet manner are worth a lot. He's responding well to short-term acupuncture but we aren't able to do herbs while he's in the hospital, and that's where he'd benefit most. Can anyone make a referral? Thanks! ---Deb Marshall Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 29, 2006 Report Share Posted July 29, 2006 What does jui li xiang do? New to me. -- Cara O. Frank, R.Ac, Dipl Ac & Ch.H. President China Herb Company Program Director of the Chinese Herb Program Tai Sophia Institute for the Healing Arts office: 215- 438-2977 fax: 215-849-3338 Www.chinaherbco.com Www.carafrank.com Eric Brand <smilinglotus Sat, 29 Jul 2006 16:12:10 +0000 Re: IBS <%40> , " " wrote: > > Does anyone know the formula? It was a variation on Tong Xie Yao Fang, as listed below (doses are grams/day). Inclusion criteria for the study required the patients to have a diarrhea-predominant presentation, as opposed to primarily constipation or alternating constipation and diarrhea. Bai zhu * Atractylodes macrocephala (rhizome) 15 Huang qi Astragalus membranaceus (root) 15 Bai shao * Paeonia lactiflora (peeled root, fried) 15 Cang zhu Atractylodes chinensis (rhizome) 12 Chai hu* Bupleurum chinense (root) 9 Chen pi* Citrus reticulata (peel) 9 Fang feng Saposhnikovia divaricata (root) 9 Jiu li xiang Murraya paniculata (twigs) 9 Shi Liu Pi Punica grantum (rind) 9 Ma Chi Xian Portulaca oleracea (above-ground parts) 30 Huang Lian* Coptis chinensis (rhizome) 6 * indicates meds present in a previous study cited by the article (Bensoussan's formula) Eric Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 29, 2006 Report Share Posted July 29, 2006 , Cara Frank <herbbabe wrote: > > What does jui li xiang do? New to me. It's new to me, too. Zhong yao da ci dian says: warm, acrid & bitter, heart, liver, & lung. Moves qi & quickens blood; dispels wind & eliminates dampness; settles pain. Treats: Abdominal qi pain; sores; itchy skin; pain & swelling from knocks & falls. decoct (9-15g); can also be steeped to make a medicinal wine: Topically, apply crushed. Eric Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 30, 2006 Report Share Posted July 30, 2006 I have a problem with such studies, despite the fact that it followed standard double-blind procedures to test for efficacy. The problem is this: When we treat patients, we are not treating conditions, such as IBS but rather imbalances. Do any of you ever keep a patient on one formula without modification for four or eight weeks? I generally modify formulas weekly, because of the changes seen in a patient's s/s tongue and pulses. To give an oversimplification, if you are treating a case of excess heat with cooling herbs, after a while the patient will get out of balance the other way, and develop symptoms of cold. So how can you give a formula unmodified to verify that it treats a western syndrome? Respectfully, Yehuda Frischman, L.Ac, CST, SER, TJM Eric Brand <smilinglotus wrote: , " " wrote: > > Does anyone know the formula? It was a variation on Tong Xie Yao Fang, as listed below (doses are grams/day). Inclusion criteria for the study required the patients to have a diarrhea-predominant presentation, as opposed to primarily constipation or alternating constipation and diarrhea. Bai zhu * Atractylodes macrocephala (rhizome) 15 Huang qi Astragalus membranaceus (root) 15 Bai shao * Paeonia lactiflora (peeled root, fried) 15 Cang zhu Atractylodes chinensis (rhizome) 12 Chai hu* Bupleurum chinense (root) 9 Chen pi* Citrus reticulata (peel) 9 Fang feng Saposhnikovia divaricata (root) 9 Jiu li xiang Murraya paniculata (twigs) 9 Shi Liu Pi Punica grantum (rind) 9 Ma Chi Xian Portulaca oleracea (above-ground parts) 30 Huang Lian* Coptis chinensis (rhizome) 6 * indicates meds present in a previous study cited by the article (Bensoussan's formula) Eric Music Unlimited - Access over 1 million songs.Try it free. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 30, 2006 Report Share Posted July 30, 2006 I agree with you yehuda. but if you deconstruct the formula below, it is actually fairly balanced: and I think the net result is fundamentally neutral. Not too cold. Not too warm. Not too drying, but drying enough. These kinds of formulas can both address an umbrella of pattern variations, but it¹s construct gives the formula legs. Just my 2 cents, Cara -- Cara O. Frank, R.Ac, Dipl Ac & Ch.H. President China Herb Company Program Director of the Chinese Herb Program Tai Sophia Institute for the Healing Arts office: 215- 438-2977 fax: 215-849-3338 Www.chinaherbco.com Www.carafrank.com Sun, 30 Jul 2006 00:00:37 -0700 (PDT) Re: IBS I have a problem with such studies, despite the fact that it followed standard double-blind procedures to test for efficacy. The problem is this: When we treat patients, we are not treating conditions, such as IBS but rather imbalances. Do any of you ever keep a patient on one formula without modification for four or eight weeks? I generally modify formulas weekly, because of the changes seen in a patient's s/s tongue and pulses. To give an oversimplification, if you are treating a case of excess heat with cooling herbs, after a while the patient will get out of balance the other way, and develop symptoms of cold. So how can you give a formula unmodified to verify that it treats a western syndrome? Respectfully, Yehuda Frischman, L.Ac, CST, SER, TJM Eric Brand <smilinglotus <smilinglotus%40> > wrote: <%40> , " " wrote: > > Does anyone know the formula? It was a variation on Tong Xie Yao Fang, as listed below (doses are grams/day). Inclusion criteria for the study required the patients to have a diarrhea-predominant presentation, as opposed to primarily constipation or alternating constipation and diarrhea. Bai zhu * Atractylodes macrocephala (rhizome) 15 Huang qi Astragalus membranaceus (root) 15 Bai shao * Paeonia lactiflora (peeled root, fried) 15 Cang zhu Atractylodes chinensis (rhizome) 12 Chai hu* Bupleurum chinense (root) 9 Chen pi* Citrus reticulata (peel) 9 Fang feng Saposhnikovia divaricata (root) 9 Jiu li xiang Murraya paniculata (twigs) 9 Shi Liu Pi Punica grantum (rind) 9 Ma Chi Xian Portulaca oleracea (above-ground parts) 30 Huang Lian* Coptis chinensis (rhizome) 6 * indicates meds present in a previous study cited by the article (Bensoussan's formula) Eric Music Unlimited - Access over 1 million songs.Try it free. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 30, 2006 Report Share Posted July 30, 2006 Thanks for looking that up. Acrid and bitter is always an interesting dynamic: it holds, but it also moves. -- Cara O. Frank, R.Ac, Dipl Ac & Ch.H. President China Herb Company Program Director of the Chinese Herb Program Tai Sophia Institute for the Healing Arts office: 215- 438-2977 fax: 215-849-3338 Www.chinaherbco.com Www.carafrank.com > > What does jui li xiang do? New to me. It's new to me, too. Zhong yao da ci dian says: warm, acrid & bitter, heart, liver, & lung. Moves qi & quickens blood; dispels wind & eliminates dampness; settles pain. Treats: Abdominal qi pain; sores; itchy skin; pain & swelling from knocks & falls. decoct (9-15g); can also be steeped to make a medicinal wine: Topically, apply crushed. Eric Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 30, 2006 Report Share Posted July 30, 2006 Yehuda you can just call it diarrhea and then it is a CM syndrome. Oakland, CA 94609 - Cara Frank Sunday, July 30, 2006 3:48 AM Re: IBS I agree with you yehuda. but if you deconstruct the formula below, it is actually fairly balanced: and I think the net result is fundamentally neutral. Not too cold. Not too warm. Not too drying, but drying enough. These kinds of formulas can both address an umbrella of pattern variations, but it¹s construct gives the formula legs. Just my 2 cents, Cara -- Cara O. Frank, R.Ac, Dipl Ac & Ch.H. President China Herb Company Program Director of the Chinese Herb Program Tai Sophia Institute for the Healing Arts office: 215- 438-2977 fax: 215-849-3338 Www.chinaherbco.com Www.carafrank.com Sun, 30 Jul 2006 00:00:37 -0700 (PDT) Re: IBS I have a problem with such studies, despite the fact that it followed standard double-blind procedures to test for efficacy. The problem is this: When we treat patients, we are not treating conditions, such as IBS but rather imbalances. Do any of you ever keep a patient on one formula without modification for four or eight weeks? I generally modify formulas weekly, because of the changes seen in a patient's s/s tongue and pulses. To give an oversimplification, if you are treating a case of excess heat with cooling herbs, after a while the patient will get out of balance the other way, and develop symptoms of cold. So how can you give a formula unmodified to verify that it treats a western syndrome? Respectfully, Yehuda Frischman, L.Ac, CST, SER, TJM Eric Brand <smilinglotus <smilinglotus%40> > wrote: <%40> , " " wrote: > > Does anyone know the formula? It was a variation on Tong Xie Yao Fang, as listed below (doses are grams/day). Inclusion criteria for the study required the patients to have a diarrhea-predominant presentation, as opposed to primarily constipation or alternating constipation and diarrhea. Bai zhu * Atractylodes macrocephala (rhizome) 15 Huang qi Astragalus membranaceus (root) 15 Bai shao * Paeonia lactiflora (peeled root, fried) 15 Cang zhu Atractylodes chinensis (rhizome) 12 Chai hu* Bupleurum chinense (root) 9 Chen pi* Citrus reticulata (peel) 9 Fang feng Saposhnikovia divaricata (root) 9 Jiu li xiang Murraya paniculata (twigs) 9 Shi Liu Pi Punica grantum (rind) 9 Ma Chi Xian Portulaca oleracea (above-ground parts) 30 Huang Lian* Coptis chinensis (rhizome) 6 * indicates meds present in a previous study cited by the article (Bensoussan's formula) Eric Music Unlimited - Access over 1 million songs.Try it free. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 30, 2006 Report Share Posted July 30, 2006 Dear Cara, I am reminded of a lecture that I heard from Dr.Zhang in Formulas III. In discussing Xiao Fend San, he essentially said the following about it : " Four ingredients disperse wind to relieve itching, one dries dampness to expel wind, 2 clear and drain damp- heat, 2 clear qi level heat to drain fire, 3 nourish and invigorate the blood to stop itching and gan cao harmonizes. Great formula right? Wrong! This is what we call a common formula, using a shot gun approach to treat a symptom, in this case itching, instead of treating the pattern. By treating a little of this and a little of that the formula is marginally effective. " I would apply the same idea here. Again, I strongly feel that we short change our patients when we give them herbs that treat Western diagnoses. Yehuda Cara Frank <herbbabe wrote: I agree with you yehuda. but if you deconstruct the formula below, it is actually fairly balanced: and I think the net result is fundamentally neutral. Not too cold. Not too warm. Not too drying, but drying enough. These kinds of formulas can both address an umbrella of pattern variations, but it¹s construct gives the formula legs. Just my 2 cents, Cara -- Cara O. Frank, R.Ac, Dipl Ac & Ch.H. President China Herb Company Program Director of the Chinese Herb Program Tai Sophia Institute for the Healing Arts office: 215- 438-2977 fax: 215-849-3338 Www.chinaherbco.com Www.carafrank.com Sun, 30 Jul 2006 00:00:37 -0700 (PDT) Re: IBS I have a problem with such studies, despite the fact that it followed standard double-blind procedures to test for efficacy. The problem is this: When we treat patients, we are not treating conditions, such as IBS but rather imbalances. Do any of you ever keep a patient on one formula without modification for four or eight weeks? I generally modify formulas weekly, because of the changes seen in a patient's s/s tongue and pulses. To give an oversimplification, if you are treating a case of excess heat with cooling herbs, after a while the patient will get out of balance the other way, and develop symptoms of cold. So how can you give a formula unmodified to verify that it treats a western syndrome? Respectfully, Yehuda Frischman, L.Ac, CST, SER, TJM Eric Brand <smilinglotus <smilinglotus%40> > wrote: <%40> , " " wrote: > > Does anyone know the formula? It was a variation on Tong Xie Yao Fang, as listed below (doses are grams/day). Inclusion criteria for the study required the patients to have a diarrhea-predominant presentation, as opposed to primarily constipation or alternating constipation and diarrhea. Bai zhu * Atractylodes macrocephala (rhizome) 15 Huang qi Astragalus membranaceus (root) 15 Bai shao * Paeonia lactiflora (peeled root, fried) 15 Cang zhu Atractylodes chinensis (rhizome) 12 Chai hu* Bupleurum chinense (root) 9 Chen pi* Citrus reticulata (peel) 9 Fang feng Saposhnikovia divaricata (root) 9 Jiu li xiang Murraya paniculata (twigs) 9 Shi Liu Pi Punica grantum (rind) 9 Ma Chi Xian Portulaca oleracea (above-ground parts) 30 Huang Lian* Coptis chinensis (rhizome) 6 * indicates meds present in a previous study cited by the article (Bensoussan's formula) Eric Music Unlimited - Access over 1 million songs.Try it free. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 30, 2006 Report Share Posted July 30, 2006 Right, but what is the etiology of the diarrhea? It there damp-heat or cold-dampness? which is more prevelant, the dampness or the heat/cold? Is there food accumulation? Is there spleen vacuity? Are there parasites? Is it caused by underlying liver qi stagnation or blood stasis? Is there spleen yang vacuity? A syndrome? OK, a differential diagnosis? I don't think so. One formula treats all? Go for it, but don't expect to be successful! Yehuda <alonmarcus wrote: Yehuda you can just call it diarrhea and then it is a CM syndrome. Oakland, CA 94609 - Cara Frank Sunday, July 30, 2006 3:48 AM Re: IBS I agree with you yehuda. but if you deconstruct the formula below, it is actually fairly balanced: and I think the net result is fundamentally neutral. Not too cold. Not too warm. Not too drying, but drying enough. These kinds of formulas can both address an umbrella of pattern variations, but it¹s construct gives the formula legs. Just my 2 cents, Cara -- Cara O. Frank, R.Ac, Dipl Ac & Ch.H. President China Herb Company Program Director of the Chinese Herb Program Tai Sophia Institute for the Healing Arts office: 215- 438-2977 fax: 215-849-3338 Www.chinaherbco.com Www.carafrank.com Sun, 30 Jul 2006 00:00:37 -0700 (PDT) Re: IBS I have a problem with such studies, despite the fact that it followed standard double-blind procedures to test for efficacy. The problem is this: When we treat patients, we are not treating conditions, such as IBS but rather imbalances. Do any of you ever keep a patient on one formula without modification for four or eight weeks? I generally modify formulas weekly, because of the changes seen in a patient's s/s tongue and pulses. To give an oversimplification, if you are treating a case of excess heat with cooling herbs, after a while the patient will get out of balance the other way, and develop symptoms of cold. So how can you give a formula unmodified to verify that it treats a western syndrome? Respectfully, Yehuda Frischman, L.Ac, CST, SER, TJM Eric Brand <smilinglotus <smilinglotus%40> > wrote: <%40> , " " wrote: > > Does anyone know the formula? It was a variation on Tong Xie Yao Fang, as listed below (doses are grams/day). Inclusion criteria for the study required the patients to have a diarrhea-predominant presentation, as opposed to primarily constipation or alternating constipation and diarrhea. Bai zhu * Atractylodes macrocephala (rhizome) 15 Huang qi Astragalus membranaceus (root) 15 Bai shao * Paeonia lactiflora (peeled root, fried) 15 Cang zhu Atractylodes chinensis (rhizome) 12 Chai hu* Bupleurum chinense (root) 9 Chen pi* Citrus reticulata (peel) 9 Fang feng Saposhnikovia divaricata (root) 9 Jiu li xiang Murraya paniculata (twigs) 9 Shi Liu Pi Punica grantum (rind) 9 Ma Chi Xian Portulaca oleracea (above-ground parts) 30 Huang Lian* Coptis chinensis (rhizome) 6 * indicates meds present in a previous study cited by the article (Bensoussan's formula) Eric Music Unlimited - Access over 1 million songs.Try it free. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 30, 2006 Report Share Posted July 30, 2006 Oops, Sorry for the typo. I meant Xiao Feng San, not xiao fend san. wrote: Dear Cara, I am reminded of a lecture that I heard from Dr.Zhang in Formulas III. In discussing Xiao Fend San, he essentially said the following about it : " Four ingredients disperse wind to relieve itching, one dries dampness to expel wind, 2 clear and drain damp- heat, 2 clear qi level heat to drain fire, 3 nourish and invigorate the blood to stop itching and gan cao harmonizes. Great formula right? Wrong! This is what we call a common formula, using a shot gun approach to treat a symptom, in this case itching, instead of treating the pattern. By treating a little of this and a little of that the formula is marginally effective. " I would apply the same idea here. Again, I strongly feel that we short change our patients when we give them herbs that treat Western diagnoses. Yehuda Cara Frank <herbbabe wrote: I agree with you yehuda. but if you deconstruct the formula below, it is actually fairly balanced: and I think the net result is fundamentally neutral. Not too cold. Not too warm. Not too drying, but drying enough. These kinds of formulas can both address an umbrella of pattern variations, but it¹s construct gives the formula legs. Just my 2 cents, Cara -- Cara O. Frank, R.Ac, Dipl Ac & Ch.H. President China Herb Company Program Director of the Chinese Herb Program Tai Sophia Institute for the Healing Arts office: 215- 438-2977 fax: 215-849-3338 Www.chinaherbco.com Www.carafrank.com Sun, 30 Jul 2006 00:00:37 -0700 (PDT) Re: IBS I have a problem with such studies, despite the fact that it followed standard double-blind procedures to test for efficacy. The problem is this: When we treat patients, we are not treating conditions, such as IBS but rather imbalances. Do any of you ever keep a patient on one formula without modification for four or eight weeks? I generally modify formulas weekly, because of the changes seen in a patient's s/s tongue and pulses. To give an oversimplification, if you are treating a case of excess heat with cooling herbs, after a while the patient will get out of balance the other way, and develop symptoms of cold. So how can you give a formula unmodified to verify that it treats a western syndrome? Respectfully, Yehuda Frischman, L.Ac, CST, SER, TJM Eric Brand <smilinglotus <smilinglotus%40> > wrote: <%40> , " " wrote: > > Does anyone know the formula? It was a variation on Tong Xie Yao Fang, as listed below (doses are grams/day). Inclusion criteria for the study required the patients to have a diarrhea-predominant presentation, as opposed to primarily constipation or alternating constipation and diarrhea. Bai zhu * Atractylodes macrocephala (rhizome) 15 Huang qi Astragalus membranaceus (root) 15 Bai shao * Paeonia lactiflora (peeled root, fried) 15 Cang zhu Atractylodes chinensis (rhizome) 12 Chai hu* Bupleurum chinense (root) 9 Chen pi* Citrus reticulata (peel) 9 Fang feng Saposhnikovia divaricata (root) 9 Jiu li xiang Murraya paniculata (twigs) 9 Shi Liu Pi Punica grantum (rind) 9 Ma Chi Xian Portulaca oleracea (above-ground parts) 30 Huang Lian* Coptis chinensis (rhizome) 6 * indicates meds present in a previous study cited by the article (Bensoussan's formula) Eric Music Unlimited - Access over 1 million songs.Try it free. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 30, 2006 Report Share Posted July 30, 2006 Yehuda i should actually said a disease name not syndrome. The question becomes a treatment of chronic diarrhea s/s. Does a balanced formula such as that one work or not? the first study said it did, this study with larger numbers said it did not. That is why is said numbers really make a diff in making conclusions Oakland, CA 94609 - yehuda frischman Sunday, July 30, 2006 2:35 PM Re: IBS Right, but what is the etiology of the diarrhea? It there damp-heat or cold-dampness? which is more prevelant, the dampness or the heat/cold? Is there food accumulation? Is there spleen vacuity? Are there parasites? Is it caused by underlying liver qi stagnation or blood stasis? Is there spleen yang vacuity? A syndrome? OK, a differential diagnosis? I don't think so. One formula treats all? Go for it, but don't expect to be successful! Yehuda <alonmarcus wrote: Yehuda you can just call it diarrhea and then it is a CM syndrome. Oakland, CA 94609 - Cara Frank Sunday, July 30, 2006 3:48 AM Re: IBS I agree with you yehuda. but if you deconstruct the formula below, it is actually fairly balanced: and I think the net result is fundamentally neutral. Not too cold. Not too warm. Not too drying, but drying enough. These kinds of formulas can both address an umbrella of pattern variations, but it¹s construct gives the formula legs. Just my 2 cents, Cara -- Cara O. Frank, R.Ac, Dipl Ac & Ch.H. President China Herb Company Program Director of the Chinese Herb Program Tai Sophia Institute for the Healing Arts office: 215- 438-2977 fax: 215-849-3338 Www.chinaherbco.com Www.carafrank.com Sun, 30 Jul 2006 00:00:37 -0700 (PDT) Re: IBS I have a problem with such studies, despite the fact that it followed standard double-blind procedures to test for efficacy. The problem is this: When we treat patients, we are not treating conditions, such as IBS but rather imbalances. Do any of you ever keep a patient on one formula without modification for four or eight weeks? I generally modify formulas weekly, because of the changes seen in a patient's s/s tongue and pulses. To give an oversimplification, if you are treating a case of excess heat with cooling herbs, after a while the patient will get out of balance the other way, and develop symptoms of cold. So how can you give a formula unmodified to verify that it treats a western syndrome? Respectfully, Yehuda Frischman, L.Ac, CST, SER, TJM Eric Brand <smilinglotus <smilinglotus%40> > wrote: <%40> , " " wrote: > > Does anyone know the formula? It was a variation on Tong Xie Yao Fang, as listed below (doses are grams/day). Inclusion criteria for the study required the patients to have a diarrhea-predominant presentation, as opposed to primarily constipation or alternating constipation and diarrhea. Bai zhu * Atractylodes macrocephala (rhizome) 15 Huang qi Astragalus membranaceus (root) 15 Bai shao * Paeonia lactiflora (peeled root, fried) 15 Cang zhu Atractylodes chinensis (rhizome) 12 Chai hu* Bupleurum chinense (root) 9 Chen pi* Citrus reticulata (peel) 9 Fang feng Saposhnikovia divaricata (root) 9 Jiu li xiang Murraya paniculata (twigs) 9 Shi Liu Pi Punica grantum (rind) 9 Ma Chi Xian Portulaca oleracea (above-ground parts) 30 Huang Lian* Coptis chinensis (rhizome) 6 * indicates meds present in a previous study cited by the article (Bensoussan's formula) Eric Music Unlimited - Access over 1 million songs.Try it free. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 31, 2006 Report Share Posted July 31, 2006 Yehuda, I am totally in agreement with you that careful pattern discrimination is a critical part of successful herbal treatment. but, just for a counterpoint, what if xiao feng san isnŒt shotgun? What is it is based on observations and responses to a constellation of signs and symptoms that appear together frequently? Xiao yao san is an herbal response to Liver Qi/liver blood/ sp qi vacuity. We see these patterns together all the time. -- Cara O. Frank, R.Ac, Dipl Ac & Ch.H. Dear Cara, I am reminded of a lecture that I heard from Dr.Zhang in Formulas III. In discussing Xiao Fend San, he essentially said the following about it : " Four ingredients disperse wind to relieve itching, one dries dampness to expel wind, 2 clear and drain damp- heat, 2 clear qi level heat to drain fire, 3 nourish and invigorate the blood to stop itching and gan cao harmonizes. Great formula right? Wrong! This is what we call a common formula, using a shot gun approach to treat a symptom, in this case itching, instead of treating the pattern. By treating a little of this and a little of that the formula is marginally effective. " I would apply the same idea here. Again, I strongly feel that we short change our patients when we give them herbs that treat Western diagnoses. Yehuda Cara Frank <herbbabe <herbbabe%40verizon.net> > wrote: I agree with you yehuda. but if you deconstruct the formula below, it is actually fairly balanced: and I think the net result is fundamentally neutral. Not too cold. Not too warm. Not too drying, but drying enough. These kinds of formulas can both address an umbrella of pattern variations, but it¹s construct gives the formula legs. Just my 2 cents, Cara -- Cara O. Frank, R.Ac, Dipl Ac & Ch.H. President China Herb Company Program Director of the Chinese Herb Program Tai Sophia Institute for the Healing Arts office: 215- 438-2977 fax: 215-849-3338 Www.chinaherbco.com Www.carafrank.com <%40> > < <%40> > Sun, 30 Jul 2006 00:00:37 -0700 (PDT) < <%40> > Re: IBS I have a problem with such studies, despite the fact that it followed standard double-blind procedures to test for efficacy. The problem is this: When we treat patients, we are not treating conditions, such as IBS but rather imbalances. Do any of you ever keep a patient on one formula without modification for four or eight weeks? I generally modify formulas weekly, because of the changes seen in a patient's s/s tongue and pulses. To give an oversimplification, if you are treating a case of excess heat with cooling herbs, after a while the patient will get out of balance the other way, and develop symptoms of cold. So how can you give a formula unmodified to verify that it treats a western syndrome? Respectfully, Yehuda Frischman, L.Ac, CST, SER, TJM Eric Brand <smilinglotus <smilinglotus%40> <smilinglotus%40> > wrote: <%40> <%40> , " " wrote: > > Does anyone know the formula? It was a variation on Tong Xie Yao Fang, as listed below (doses are grams/day). Inclusion criteria for the study required the patients to have a diarrhea-predominant presentation, as opposed to primarily constipation or alternating constipation and diarrhea. Bai zhu * Atractylodes macrocephala (rhizome) 15 Huang qi Astragalus membranaceus (root) 15 Bai shao * Paeonia lactiflora (peeled root, fried) 15 Cang zhu Atractylodes chinensis (rhizome) 12 Chai hu* Bupleurum chinense (root) 9 Chen pi* Citrus reticulata (peel) 9 Fang feng Saposhnikovia divaricata (root) 9 Jiu li xiang Murraya paniculata (twigs) 9 Shi Liu Pi Punica grantum (rind) 9 Ma Chi Xian Portulaca oleracea (above-ground parts) 30 Huang Lian* Coptis chinensis (rhizome) 6 * indicates meds present in a previous study cited by the article (Bensoussan's formula) Eric Music Unlimited - Access over 1 million songs.Try it free. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 31, 2006 Report Share Posted July 31, 2006 Blue Poppy has published numerous Chinese RCTs on IBS in our on-line journal. All of these (except for the 2006 ones) are available as Research Reports or on our Research CD. This is one of the most commonly studied and published about conditions in the contemporary Chinese journal literature. Blue Poppy has only published a small percentage of all the Chinese journal articles on this subject. Bob , Cara Frank <herbbabe wrote: > > Yehuda, > I am totally in agreement with you that careful pattern discrimination is a > critical part of successful herbal treatment. > but, just for a counterpoint, what if xiao feng san isnŒt shotgun? What is > it is based on observations and responses to a constellation of signs and > symptoms that appear together frequently? Xiao yao san is an herbal > response to Liver Qi/liver blood/ sp qi vacuity. We see these patterns > together all the time. > > > > -- > Cara O. Frank, R.Ac, Dipl Ac & Ch.H. > Dear Cara, > > I am reminded of a lecture that I heard from Dr.Zhang in Formulas III. In > discussing Xiao Fend San, he essentially said the following about it : " Four > ingredients disperse wind to relieve itching, one dries dampness to expel > wind, 2 clear and drain > damp- heat, 2 clear qi level heat to drain fire, 3 nourish and invigorate > the blood to stop itching and gan cao harmonizes. Great formula right? > Wrong! This is what we call a common formula, using a shot gun approach to > treat a symptom, in this case itching, instead of treating the pattern. By > treating a little of this and a little of that the formula is marginally > effective. " I would apply the same idea here. Again, I strongly feel that we > short change our patients when we give them herbs that treat Western > diagnoses. > > Yehuda > Cara Frank <herbbabe <herbbabe%40verizon.net> > wrote: > I agree with you yehuda. > but if you deconstruct the formula below, it is actually fairly balanced: > and I think the net result is fundamentally neutral. Not too cold. Not too > warm. Not too drying, but drying enough. These kinds of formulas can both > address an umbrella of pattern variations, but it¹s construct gives the > formula legs. > > Just my 2 cents, > Cara > -- > Cara O. Frank, R.Ac, Dipl Ac & Ch.H. > President China Herb Company > Program Director of the Chinese Herb Program > Tai Sophia Institute for the Healing Arts > office: 215- 438-2977 > fax: 215-849-3338 > Www.chinaherbco.com > Www.carafrank.com > > <%40> > > < > <%40> > > Sun, 30 Jul 2006 00:00:37 -0700 (PDT) > < > <%40> > > Re: IBS > > I have a problem with such studies, despite the fact that it followed > standard double-blind procedures to test for efficacy. The problem is this: > When we treat patients, we are not treating conditions, such as IBS but > rather imbalances. Do any of you ever keep a patient on one formula without > modification for four or eight weeks? I generally modify formulas weekly, > because of the changes seen in a patient's s/s tongue and pulses. To give > an oversimplification, if you are treating a case of excess heat with > cooling herbs, after a while the patient will get out of balance the other > way, and develop symptoms of cold. So how can you give a formula unmodified > to verify that it treats a western syndrome? > > Respectfully, > > Yehuda Frischman, L.Ac, CST, SER, TJM > > Eric Brand <smilinglotus <smilinglotus%40> > <smilinglotus%40> > > wrote: > > <%40> > <%40> , " " > <@> wrote: > > > > Does anyone know the formula? > > It was a variation on Tong Xie Yao Fang, as listed below (doses are > grams/day). Inclusion criteria for the study required the patients to > have a diarrhea-predominant presentation, as opposed to primarily > constipation or alternating constipation and diarrhea. > > Bai zhu * Atractylodes macrocephala (rhizome) 15 > Huang qi Astragalus membranaceus (root) 15 > Bai shao * Paeonia lactiflora (peeled root, fried) 15 > Cang zhu Atractylodes chinensis (rhizome) 12 > Chai hu* Bupleurum chinense (root) 9 > Chen pi* Citrus reticulata (peel) 9 > Fang feng Saposhnikovia divaricata (root) 9 > Jiu li xiang Murraya paniculata (twigs) 9 > Shi Liu Pi Punica grantum (rind) 9 > Ma Chi Xian Portulaca oleracea (above-ground parts) 30 > Huang Lian* Coptis chinensis (rhizome) 6 > > * indicates meds present in a previous study cited by the article > (Bensoussan's formula) > > Eric > > > Music Unlimited - Access over 1 million songs.Try it free. > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 31, 2006 Report Share Posted July 31, 2006 I would contend that in that case, the greater focus should be on the root, most probably, blood xu and stagnation. Focusing on nourishing the vacuity first. If I came to the right conclusion that the itching came from blood xu, then the other problems would probably resolve by themselves, don't you think? Y Cara Frank <herbbabe wrote: Yehuda, I am totally in agreement with you that careful pattern discrimination is a critical part of successful herbal treatment. but, just for a counterpoint, what if xiao feng san isnŒt shotgun? What is it is based on observations and responses to a constellation of signs and symptoms that appear together frequently? Xiao yao san is an herbal response to Liver Qi/liver blood/ sp qi vacuity. We see these patterns together all the time. -- Cara O. Frank, R.Ac, Dipl Ac & Ch.H. Dear Cara, I am reminded of a lecture that I heard from Dr.Zhang in Formulas III. In discussing Xiao Fend San, he essentially said the following about it : " Four ingredients disperse wind to relieve itching, one dries dampness to expel wind, 2 clear and drain damp- heat, 2 clear qi level heat to drain fire, 3 nourish and invigorate the blood to stop itching and gan cao harmonizes. Great formula right? Wrong! This is what we call a common formula, using a shot gun approach to treat a symptom, in this case itching, instead of treating the pattern. By treating a little of this and a little of that the formula is marginally effective. " I would apply the same idea here. Again, I strongly feel that we short change our patients when we give them herbs that treat Western diagnoses. Yehuda Cara Frank <herbbabe <herbbabe%40verizon.net> > wrote: I agree with you yehuda. but if you deconstruct the formula below, it is actually fairly balanced: and I think the net result is fundamentally neutral. Not too cold. Not too warm. Not too drying, but drying enough. These kinds of formulas can both address an umbrella of pattern variations, but it¹s construct gives the formula legs. Just my 2 cents, Cara -- Cara O. Frank, R.Ac, Dipl Ac & Ch.H. President China Herb Company Program Director of the Chinese Herb Program Tai Sophia Institute for the Healing Arts office: 215- 438-2977 fax: 215-849-3338 Www.chinaherbco.com Www.carafrank.com <%40> > < <%40> > Sun, 30 Jul 2006 00:00:37 -0700 (PDT) < <%40> > Re: IBS I have a problem with such studies, despite the fact that it followed standard double-blind procedures to test for efficacy. The problem is this: When we treat patients, we are not treating conditions, such as IBS but rather imbalances. Do any of you ever keep a patient on one formula without modification for four or eight weeks? I generally modify formulas weekly, because of the changes seen in a patient's s/s tongue and pulses. To give an oversimplification, if you are treating a case of excess heat with cooling herbs, after a while the patient will get out of balance the other way, and develop symptoms of cold. So how can you give a formula unmodified to verify that it treats a western syndrome? Respectfully, Yehuda Frischman, L.Ac, CST, SER, TJM Eric Brand <smilinglotus <smilinglotus%40> <smilinglotus%40> > wrote: <%40> <%40> , " " wrote: > > Does anyone know the formula? It was a variation on Tong Xie Yao Fang, as listed below (doses are grams/day). Inclusion criteria for the study required the patients to have a diarrhea-predominant presentation, as opposed to primarily constipation or alternating constipation and diarrhea. Bai zhu * Atractylodes macrocephala (rhizome) 15 Huang qi Astragalus membranaceus (root) 15 Bai shao * Paeonia lactiflora (peeled root, fried) 15 Cang zhu Atractylodes chinensis (rhizome) 12 Chai hu* Bupleurum chinense (root) 9 Chen pi* Citrus reticulata (peel) 9 Fang feng Saposhnikovia divaricata (root) 9 Jiu li xiang Murraya paniculata (twigs) 9 Shi Liu Pi Punica grantum (rind) 9 Ma Chi Xian Portulaca oleracea (above-ground parts) 30 Huang Lian* Coptis chinensis (rhizome) 6 * indicates meds present in a previous study cited by the article (Bensoussan's formula) Eric Music Unlimited - Access over 1 million songs.Try it free. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 31, 2006 Report Share Posted July 31, 2006 no, i think it it good to treat the root and the branch together. I like alleviating symptoms. itching is a maddening experience. but i would not just treat symptoms. of the blood is deficient, all the wind expelling herbs in the world wont resolve the problem. > >I would contend that in that case, the greater focus should be on the root, most probably, blood xu and stagnation. Focusing on nourishing the vacuity first. If I came to the right conclusion that the itching came from blood xu, then the other problems would probably resolve by themselves, don't you think? > > Y > >Cara Frank <herbbabe wrote: > Yehuda, >I am totally in agreement with you that careful pattern discrimination is a >critical part of successful herbal treatment. >but, just for a counterpoint, what if xiao feng san isnŒt shotgun? What is >it is based on observations and responses to a constellation of signs and >symptoms that appear together frequently? Xiao yao san is an herbal >response to Liver Qi/liver blood/ sp qi vacuity. We see these patterns >together all the time. > >-- >Cara O. Frank, R.Ac, Dipl Ac & Ch.H. >Dear Cara, > >I am reminded of a lecture that I heard from Dr.Zhang in Formulas III. In >discussing Xiao Fend San, he essentially said the following about it : " Four >ingredients disperse wind to relieve itching, one dries dampness to expel >wind, 2 clear and drain >damp- heat, 2 clear qi level heat to drain fire, 3 nourish and invigorate >the blood to stop itching and gan cao harmonizes. Great formula right? >Wrong! This is what we call a common formula, using a shot gun approach to >treat a symptom, in this case itching, instead of treating the pattern. By >treating a little of this and a little of that the formula is marginally >effective. " I would apply the same idea here. Again, I strongly feel that we >short change our patients when we give them herbs that treat Western >diagnoses. > >Yehuda >Cara Frank <herbbabe <herbbabe%40verizon.net> > wrote: >I agree with you yehuda. >but if you deconstruct the formula below, it is actually fairly balanced: >and I think the net result is fundamentally neutral. Not too cold. Not too >warm. Not too drying, but drying enough. These kinds of formulas can both >address an umbrella of pattern variations, but it¹s construct gives the >formula legs. > >Just my 2 cents, >Cara >-- >Cara O. Frank, R.Ac, Dipl Ac & Ch.H. >President China Herb Company >Program Director of the Chinese Herb Program >Tai Sophia Institute for the Healing Arts >office: 215- 438-2977 >fax: 215-849-3338 >Www.chinaherbco.com >Www.carafrank.com > > <%40> > >< ><%40> > >Sun, 30 Jul 2006 00:00:37 -0700 (PDT) >< ><%40> > >Re: IBS > >I have a problem with such studies, despite the fact that it followed >standard double-blind procedures to test for efficacy. The problem is this: >When we treat patients, we are not treating conditions, such as IBS but >rather imbalances. Do any of you ever keep a patient on one formula without >modification for four or eight weeks? I generally modify formulas weekly, >because of the changes seen in a patient's s/s tongue and pulses. To give >an oversimplification, if you are treating a case of excess heat with >cooling herbs, after a while the patient will get out of balance the other >way, and develop symptoms of cold. So how can you give a formula unmodified >to verify that it treats a western syndrome? > >Respectfully, > >Yehuda Frischman, L.Ac, CST, SER, TJM > >Eric Brand <smilinglotus <smilinglotus%40> ><smilinglotus%40> > >wrote: > ><%40> ><%40> , " " > wrote: >> >> Does anyone know the formula? > >It was a variation on Tong Xie Yao Fang, as listed below (doses are >grams/day). Inclusion criteria for the study required the patients to >have a diarrhea-predominant presentation, as opposed to primarily >constipation or alternating constipation and diarrhea. > >Bai zhu * Atractylodes macrocephala (rhizome) 15 >Huang qi Astragalus membranaceus (root) 15 >Bai shao * Paeonia lactiflora (peeled root, fried) 15 >Cang zhu Atractylodes chinensis (rhizome) 12 >Chai hu* Bupleurum chinense (root) 9 >Chen pi* Citrus reticulata (peel) 9 >Fang feng Saposhnikovia divaricata (root) 9 >Jiu li xiang Murraya paniculata (twigs) 9 >Shi Liu Pi Punica grantum (rind) 9 >Ma Chi Xian Portulaca oleracea (above-ground parts) 30 >Huang Lian* Coptis chinensis (rhizome) 6 > >* indicates meds present in a previous study cited by the article >(Bensoussan's formula) > >Eric > > > Music Unlimited - Access over 1 million songs.Try it free. > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 3, 2009 Report Share Posted August 3, 2009 Does anyone have an easily prepared diet for IBS? I'm so tired and weak all the time it's hard to even cook for myself so ease of preparation is a must. Please, let me know, Rayne. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 3, 2009 Report Share Posted August 3, 2009 In a message dated 8/3/2009 9:04:38 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, raynesaltair1 writes: Does anyone have an easily prepared diet for IBS? I'm so tired and weak all the time it's hard to even cook for myself so ease of preparation is a must. Please, let me know, Rayne. When my IBS gets really bad I go back to my BRAT diet. Bananas, Rice, Applesauce, Toast. IBS is like headaches -- caused from many different things. You have no idea how many times I have been told that I will "get over" my IBS as soon as I stop eating anything with gluten in it. Nope, didn't work for me. I do not have gluten intolerance. I have also been told to stop eating or drinking anything with milk in it. That didn't help either. I am not lactose intolerant. My IBS is caused by nerve damage so taking supplements that support the nervous system helps. Eating small meals helps me. I eat so often it is like grazing -- a little here and a little there. Stress, for me will cause a "gut dump" that I have no control over. I had been put on various anti depressants, anti-anxiety meds and so far none of that has done a lick of good. What works for me may not help you at all. Some spicy food I can eat with no problem and some I know will cause a problem. But when it gets really out of control I go back to the BRAT diet for a week and then slowly, ever so slowly add other things back to my food list. Lisa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 3, 2009 Report Share Posted August 3, 2009 Make sure that you are taking Total Nutrition to nourish yourself and have on hand Intestinal Detox to handle any diarrhea. Mary Kirsten wrote: Does anyone have an easily prepared diet for IBS? I'm so tired and weak all the time it's hard to even cook for myself so ease of preparation is a must. Please, let me know, Rayne. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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