Guest guest Posted October 29, 2008 Report Share Posted October 29, 2008 Hi All- A new patient is coming to see me today, for chronic kidney stones. She has been passing about 2 per month for the last 11 years (ouch!). I don't yet have all the details, but her doctors have been unable to offer her a diagnosis. Dietary changes they have recommended to her, have made no difference, and she doesn't want to live on pain meds, the only thing they offer her. Any ideas on what I might be looking for, in terms of TCM diagnosis? Thank you, Andrea Beth Traditional Oriental Medicine Happy Hours in the CALM Center 1770 E. Villa Drive, Suite 5 Cottonwood, AZ 86326 (928) 274-1373 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 30, 2008 Report Share Posted October 30, 2008 Hi, Since this is a chronic condition her physician must have done 24 hour urine samples to help determine which type of kidney stone to see if they are caused by calcium, infection, acid build up, or can even a congenital predisposition. That being said, in terms of TCM dx you may find Kidney and Bladder imbalance. In fact, depending upon the size of the stones you may be able to feel them in the pulses. There's something about her kidneys that is not properly " digesting " and excreting thereby leading to the creation of the stones. So it would seem that kidney tonification would be in order - or at least kidney energy balancing. However, the other issue to consider is resolving Damp Heat that may contribute to stones. That could potentially make her kidney pulses feel " perversely strong " so don't mistake that for good quality kidney Qi. My guess would be that you'll need to do a balancing act between removing Damp Heat and/or Phlegm and improving kidney energy function. Last, ask her specifically about the dietary changes (if you haven't already) as you may be able to make ones that work better for her. Martha Martha Lucas, Ph.D., L.Ac. Denver Oriental Medicine and Acupuncture Clinic 303-947-6224 Have Patience, be Inspired, practice Gratitude. Miracles happen. On Oct 29, 2008, at 12:51 PM, wrote: > Hi All- > > A new patient is coming to see me today, for chronic kidney stones. > She has been passing about 2 per month for the last 11 years > (ouch!). I don't yet have all the details, but her doctors have > been unable to offer her a diagnosis. Dietary changes they have > recommended to her, have made no difference, and she doesn't want to > live on pain meds, the only thing they offer her. > > Any ideas on what I might be looking for, in terms of TCM diagnosis? > > Thank you, > Andrea Beth > > > Traditional Oriental Medicine > Happy Hours in the CALM Center > 1770 E. Villa Drive, Suite 5 > Cottonwood, AZ 86326 > (928) 274-1373 > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 31, 2008 Report Share Posted October 31, 2008 Hi Martha and all, She's had poor medical care for this - has had a hard time getting doctors to take her seriously. All they want to do is prescribe pain meds. We live in a backwoods area, where top-notch docs are a rarity. One doc told her they were calcium oxylate stones, another said they looked more like struvite type. She's been given dietary recommendations to reduce stone formation but does not follow them in a strict manner. The stones first appeared at age 16 - she had 3 of them over 1-1/2 years, and then none again until 3 years ago at age 25, following a tubal ligation. Since that time, they have been passing about 2 per month. She is in constant pain. Also since the tubal ligation, she has been developing ovarian cysts, and she is on birth control pills to " control " this, but they don't seem to be helping, according to her. She also has some kind of inflammatory intestinal process going on with lots of mucus in her stool, and an enlarged spleen. So, as you suggested, lots of damp heat in the lower jiao. However, her pulses do not suggest excess at all. And her tongue is pale, with a thin, white, very wet coat. Historically, she has always felt cold. On touch, her back is very hot and " electric " feeling over the kidneys, but cold over the sacrum. The right side of her back appears quite enlarged in comparison to her left, and the right side is where most of her stones and pain are. The most interesting thing about her tongue is that, although it is pale, the edges and tip very quickly become deep red when she produces her tongue. I've never seen this before - do you have any ideas what this might represent? One LAc suggested she may have polycystic ovarian syndrome, quite possible. He also thought she had kidney yin xu fire, which I do not find. Thank you for taking the time to write. After reading these details, do you have any further suggestions? I appreciate your help. Blessings and thanks, Andrea Beth Traditional Oriental Medicine Happy Hours in the CALM Center 1770 E. Villa Drive, Suite 5 Cottonwood, AZ 86326 (928) 274-1373 --- On Thu, 10/30/08, Martha Lucas, Ph.D., L.Ac. <drmlucas wrote: Martha Lucas, Ph.D., L.Ac. <drmlucas Re: chronic kidney stones Thursday, October 30, 2008, 7:41 AM Hi, Since this is a chronic condition her physician must have done 24 hour urine samples to help determine which type of kidney stone to see if they are caused by calcium, infection, acid build up, or can even a congenital predisposition. That being said, in terms of TCM dx you may find Kidney and Bladder imbalance. In fact, depending upon the size of the stones you may be able to feel them in the pulses. There's something about her kidneys that is not properly " digesting " and excreting thereby leading to the creation of the stones. So it would seem that kidney tonification would be in order - or at least kidney energy balancing. However, the other issue to consider is resolving Damp Heat that may contribute to stones. That could potentially make her kidney pulses feel " perversely strong " so don't mistake that for good quality kidney Qi. My guess would be that you'll need to do a balancing act between removing Damp Heat and/or Phlegm and improving kidney energy function. Last, ask her specifically about the dietary changes (if you haven't already) as you may be able to make ones that work better for her. Martha Martha Lucas, Ph.D., L.Ac. Denver Oriental Medicine and Acupuncture Clinic 303-947-6224 Have Patience, be Inspired, practice Gratitude. Miracles happen. On Oct 29, 2008, at 12:51 PM, wrote: > Hi All- > > A new patient is coming to see me today, for chronic kidney stones. > She has been passing about 2 per month for the last 11 years > (ouch!). I don't yet have all the details, but her doctors have > been unable to offer her a diagnosis. Dietary changes they have > recommended to her, have made no difference, and she doesn't want to > live on pain meds, the only thing they offer her. > > Any ideas on what I might be looking for, in terms of TCM diagnosis? > > Thank you, > Andrea Beth > > > Traditional Oriental Medicine > Happy Hours in the CALM Center > 1770 E. Villa Drive, Suite 5 > Cottonwood, AZ 86326 > (928) 274-1373 > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.