Guest guest Posted February 24, 2009 Report Share Posted February 24, 2009 --- On Mon, 2/23/09, mystir <ykcul_ritsym wrote: mystir <ykcul_ritsym RE: Re: Acupuncture Channels Chinese Medicine Monday, February 23, 2009, 7:00 PM Maybe I misunderstood Mike. Are you saying you believe thier is certainty about these tubules being 'the' qi conduits, or as in the article Attilio referenced, that they may be interesting to consider how they may play along with the channels? Fascia, cou li, mo yuan, these microscopic tubules, many things have been put up as the real meridians, but qi seems more ephemeral(yet powerful). The structures and the qi seem like they all overlap in functions and form somewhat. The implications are fascinating. People also forward their impression that mitochondria are storehouses of qi. All this could simultaneously be so. There should, I think, be systems of receptors, and feedback and feedforward loops to the qi flowing, generating, etc. I would imagine some subtle, and not so subtle anatomical structures to be specialized for Qi in the body. But haven't seen anything conclusive, or that can be said 'Ahah! this is the meridians'. Even biophotonics hasn't isolated the elusive channel. If something shows up, or doesn't, i'm ok. I like not having everything nailed down. --- On Mon, 2/23/09, mike Bowser <naturaldoc1 wrote: mike Bowser <naturaldoc1 RE: Re: Acupuncture Channels Chinese Traditional Medicine Monday, February 23, 2009, 1:32 PM I have his original monograph and did not find anything ambiguous about the descriptions or the photographs of said structures. Did I miss something? This was published in 1964. I am unaware of anything newer as I think he passed away prior. If others have additional studies in this area, I would appreciate getting a copy. This area interest me a lot. Thanks Michael W. Bowser, LAc ykcul_ritsym@ Sun, 22 Feb 2009 20:30:22 -0800 RE: Re: Acupuncture Channels Mr. Kim Bongham's pre 1990's studies were controversial. If I have the person right. I am not someone who is averse to controversy, believe me, I swim in it, but the seperate chi pathways with tubules, etc, envisioned and described by him were given at a time of want for channel verification, on a level of tissue verification. Now we more understand all the very subtle energies operating in the living body, the variations of chi, not just another organ. All organs, mind, exist because of it, because it is pervasive, and infinite in the ways it nourishes. All our diagnostic skills, aim at seeing qi in its abundance or decline. I'm not saying he wasn't brilliant, our didn't see, or that maybe his work was misinterpreted. But I reviewed it, and the exact anotomical structures he pointed to were vague. Nonetheless, his work was a great stimulus to channel medicine, he challenged artfully, the premises of basic physiology. In just that respect, he was a great. --- On Sun, 2/22/09, mike Bowser <naturaldoc1@ hotmail.com> wrote: mike Bowser <naturaldoc1@ hotmail.com> RE: Re: Acupuncture Channels traditional_ chinese_medicine Sunday, February 22, 2009, 9:38 PM Curious if Mr. Kendall considered or had access to the physiological research of Dr. Kim Bonghan or more recent studies by Dr. Soh. Dr. Soh and others have had many studies of a microtubular system published in various peer-reviewed journals. As these structures appear to flow inside and along blood vessels, lymph vessels, follow the traditional pathways and attach directly to organs, makes some sense as to the interconnectedness of the network and yet their size makes them elusive. There are some interesting compounds that have been identified inside. Michael W. Bowser, LAc ykcul_ritsym@ Sun, 22 Feb 2009 18:18:36 -0800 Re: Re: Acupuncture Channels We will have to go into this again and again, as information comes in, and our own understanding develops. Mo yuan and cou li as dynamic, lots to say. --- On Sun, 2/22/09, kncherman (AT) pacbell (DOT) net <kncherman (AT) pacbell (DOT) net> wrote: kncherman (AT) pacbell (DOT) net <kncherman (AT) pacbell (DOT) net> Re: Acupuncture Channels Sunday, February 22, 2009, 7:12 PM D.E Kendalls book- The Dao of Chinese medicine has a different take on meridians ( which he says is a totaly incorrect term, he prefers vessels) He makes a case for acupuncture channels corresponding to physiological blood, lymph and nerve pathways. An example is the radial artery path along the " lung vessel " . He does not believe in an engergetic invisible energy that is not based on physiology. He translates chi as vital breath and links it a lot with oxygen. (there are many differnt types of CHi) He was a teacher of mine years ago and he spent a lot of time researching the physiology of needleing. He also reads chinese and his book his basically his translation of the chinese texts. I happen to agree with Z'ev that Wang Ju Yi's book is definitive. I think we owe it to the medicine to become as well versed and educated as possible in all areas of information related to our system of medicine. It is a daunting job, but I think we all know what the results are. - In Traditional_ Chinese_Medicine , <zrosenbe@.. .> wrote: > > Yes, Wang Ju-yi's book on acupuncture channels with Jason Robertson is > far and away the best thing in English on this subject. . .it is > definitive. > > > > On Feb 21, 2009, at 2:31 PM, Hugo Ramiro wrote: > >> Hi all, another quotation for all of you to drool over: >> >> " Acupuncture channels are not ancient models of nerve, lymph, or >> blood vessel pathways but are instead something entirely different. " >> -Wang Ju-Yi in " Applied Channel Theory " >> >> I feel it's nice to hear authoritative statement of this nature. >> >> Hugo >> >> >> Hugo Ramiro >> http://middlemedici ne.wordpress. com >> http://www.chinesem edicaltherapies. org >> >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 24, 2009 Report Share Posted February 24, 2009 As none of us were around then or able to directly ask the ancients what they meant, we only have words and lots of metaphors. As many of us know, there are lots of research projects into what the jing luo mai are, where they travel and what they contain. I think these microtubules go further then the others as far as answering the question of function and growth/development, something that other structures have failed to connect to ancient understanding. DNA, RNA and many other compounds have been found in these structures at much higher concentrations then elsewhere in the test subjects. Another common connection is that they follow the traditional descriptions of the pathways and not the blood or lymph vessels. Just something to consider, and a closer answer then the previous choices. Michael W. Bowser, LAc Chinese Medicine ykcul_ritsym Mon, 23 Feb 2009 16:29:46 -0800 : Re: Acupuncture Channels --- On Mon, 2/23/09, mystir <ykcul_ritsym wrote: mystir <ykcul_ritsym RE: Re: Acupuncture Channels Chinese Medicine Monday, February 23, 2009, 7:00 PM Maybe I misunderstood Mike. Are you saying you believe thier is certainty about these tubules being 'the' qi conduits, or as in the article Attilio referenced, that they may be interesting to consider how they may play along with the channels? Fascia, cou li, mo yuan, these microscopic tubules, many things have been put up as the real meridians, but qi seems more ephemeral(yet powerful). The structures and the qi seem like they all overlap in functions and form somewhat. The implications are fascinating. People also forward their impression that mitochondria are storehouses of qi. All this could simultaneously be so. There should, I think, be systems of receptors, and feedback and feedforward loops to the qi flowing, generating, etc. I would imagine some subtle, and not so subtle anatomical structures to be specialized for Qi in the body. But haven't seen anything conclusive, or that can be said 'Ahah! this is the meridians'. Even biophotonics hasn't isolated the elusive channel. If something shows up, or doesn't, i'm ok. I like not having everything nailed down. --- On Mon, 2/23/09, mike Bowser <naturaldoc1 wrote: mike Bowser <naturaldoc1 RE: Re: Acupuncture Channels Chinese Traditional Medicine Monday, February 23, 2009, 1:32 PM I have his original monograph and did not find anything ambiguous about the descriptions or the photographs of said structures. Did I miss something? This was published in 1964. I am unaware of anything newer as I think he passed away prior. If others have additional studies in this area, I would appreciate getting a copy. This area interest me a lot. Thanks Michael W. Bowser, LAc ykcul_ritsym@ Sun, 22 Feb 2009 20:30:22 -0800 RE: Re: Acupuncture Channels Mr. Kim Bongham's pre 1990's studies were controversial. If I have the person right. I am not someone who is averse to controversy, believe me, I swim in it, but the seperate chi pathways with tubules, etc, envisioned and described by him were given at a time of want for channel verification, on a level of tissue verification. Now we more understand all the very subtle energies operating in the living body, the variations of chi, not just another organ. All organs, mind, exist because of it, because it is pervasive, and infinite in the ways it nourishes. All our diagnostic skills, aim at seeing qi in its abundance or decline. I'm not saying he wasn't brilliant, our didn't see, or that maybe his work was misinterpreted. But I reviewed it, and the exact anotomical structures he pointed to were vague. Nonetheless, his work was a great stimulus to channel medicine, he challenged artfully, the premises of basic physiology. In just that respect, he was a great. --- On Sun, 2/22/09, mike Bowser <naturaldoc1@ hotmail.com> wrote: mike Bowser <naturaldoc1@ hotmail.com> RE: Re: Acupuncture Channels traditional_ chinese_medicine Sunday, February 22, 2009, 9:38 PM Curious if Mr. Kendall considered or had access to the physiological research of Dr. Kim Bonghan or more recent studies by Dr. Soh. Dr. Soh and others have had many studies of a microtubular system published in various peer-reviewed journals. As these structures appear to flow inside and along blood vessels, lymph vessels, follow the traditional pathways and attach directly to organs, makes some sense as to the interconnectedness of the network and yet their size makes them elusive. There are some interesting compounds that have been identified inside. Michael W. Bowser, LAc ykcul_ritsym@ Sun, 22 Feb 2009 18:18:36 -0800 Re: Re: Acupuncture Channels We will have to go into this again and again, as information comes in, and our own understanding develops. Mo yuan and cou li as dynamic, lots to say. --- On Sun, 2/22/09, kncherman (AT) pacbell (DOT) net <kncherman (AT) pacbell (DOT) net> wrote: kncherman (AT) pacbell (DOT) net <kncherman (AT) pacbell (DOT) net> Re: Acupuncture Channels Sunday, February 22, 2009, 7:12 PM D.E Kendalls book- The Dao of Chinese medicine has a different take on meridians ( which he says is a totaly incorrect term, he prefers vessels) He makes a case for acupuncture channels corresponding to physiological blood, lymph and nerve pathways. An example is the radial artery path along the " lung vessel " . He does not believe in an engergetic invisible energy that is not based on physiology. He translates chi as vital breath and links it a lot with oxygen. (there are many differnt types of CHi) He was a teacher of mine years ago and he spent a lot of time researching the physiology of needleing. He also reads chinese and his book his basically his translation of the chinese texts. I happen to agree with Z'ev that Wang Ju Yi's book is definitive. I think we owe it to the medicine to become as well versed and educated as possible in all areas of information related to our system of medicine. It is a daunting job, but I think we all know what the results are. - In Traditional_ Chinese_Medicine , <zrosenbe@.. .> wrote: > > Yes, Wang Ju-yi's book on acupuncture channels with Jason Robertson is > far and away the best thing in English on this subject. . .it is > definitive. > > > > On Feb 21, 2009, at 2:31 PM, Hugo Ramiro wrote: > >> Hi all, another quotation for all of you to drool over: >> >> " Acupuncture channels are not ancient models of nerve, lymph, or >> blood vessel pathways but are instead something entirely different. " >> -Wang Ju-Yi in " Applied Channel Theory " >> >> I feel it's nice to hear authoritative statement of this nature. >> >> Hugo >> >> >> Hugo Ramiro >> http://middlemedici ne.wordpress. com >> http://www.chinesem edicaltherapies. org >> >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 24, 2009 Report Share Posted February 24, 2009 Hi Mike, I suspect you are probably smarter than me, (which isn't saying much, i'm not that smart), but, a purely anatomical basis of qi and channels is irrational, and too limiting, for all my subjective experience has lead me too. For example, when the needles are in, and you detect that it isn't enough for the back injury, so you decide to augment it with concentration, and qigong play, and it helps, works, umm. what are the tubules doing ? What is the tool and what is the worker? I wish I was better at words. But this is kinda fun, next round on me, ok? Peace --- On Mon, 2/23/09, mike Bowser <naturaldoc1 wrote: mike Bowser <naturaldoc1 RE: : Re: Acupuncture Channels Chinese Traditional Medicine Monday, February 23, 2009, 11:04 PM As none of us were around then or able to directly ask the ancients what they meant, we only have words and lots of metaphors. As many of us know, there are lots of research projects into what the jing luo mai are, where they travel and what they contain. I think these microtubules go further then the others as far as answering the question of function and growth/development, something that other structures have failed to connect to ancient understanding. DNA, RNA and many other compounds have been found in these structures at much higher concentrations then elsewhere in the test subjects. Another common connection is that they follow the traditional descriptions of the pathways and not the blood or lymph vessels. Just something to consider, and a closer answer then the previous choices. Michael W. Bowser, LAc Chinese Medicine ykcul_ritsym Mon, 23 Feb 2009 16:29:46 -0800 : Re: Acupuncture Channels --- On Mon, 2/23/09, mystir <ykcul_ritsym wrote: mystir <ykcul_ritsym RE: Re: Acupuncture Channels Chinese Medicine Monday, February 23, 2009, 7:00 PM Maybe I misunderstood Mike. Are you saying you believe thier is certainty about these tubules being 'the' qi conduits, or as in the article Attilio referenced, that they may be interesting to consider how they may play along with the channels? Fascia, cou li, mo yuan, these microscopic tubules, many things have been put up as the real meridians, but qi seems more ephemeral(yet powerful). The structures and the qi seem like they all overlap in functions and form somewhat. The implications are fascinating. People also forward their impression that mitochondria are storehouses of qi. All this could simultaneously be so. There should, I think, be systems of receptors, and feedback and feedforward loops to the qi flowing, generating, etc. I would imagine some subtle, and not so subtle anatomical structures to be specialized for Qi in the body. But haven't seen anything conclusive, or that can be said 'Ahah! this is the meridians'. Even biophotonics hasn't isolated the elusive channel. If something shows up, or doesn't, i'm ok. I like not having everything nailed down. --- On Mon, 2/23/09, mike Bowser <naturaldoc1 wrote: mike Bowser <naturaldoc1 RE: Re: Acupuncture Channels Chinese Traditional Medicine Monday, February 23, 2009, 1:32 PM I have his original monograph and did not find anything ambiguous about the descriptions or the photographs of said structures. Did I miss something? This was published in 1964. I am unaware of anything newer as I think he passed away prior. If others have additional studies in this area, I would appreciate getting a copy. This area interest me a lot. Thanks Michael W. Bowser, LAc ykcul_ritsym@ Sun, 22 Feb 2009 20:30:22 -0800 RE: Re: Acupuncture Channels Mr. Kim Bongham's pre 1990's studies were controversial. If I have the person right. I am not someone who is averse to controversy, believe me, I swim in it, but the seperate chi pathways with tubules, etc, envisioned and described by him were given at a time of want for channel verification, on a level of tissue verification. Now we more understand all the very subtle energies operating in the living body, the variations of chi, not just another organ. All organs, mind, exist because of it, because it is pervasive, and infinite in the ways it nourishes. All our diagnostic skills, aim at seeing qi in its abundance or decline. I'm not saying he wasn't brilliant, our didn't see, or that maybe his work was misinterpreted. But I reviewed it, and the exact anotomical structures he pointed to were vague. Nonetheless, his work was a great stimulus to channel medicine, he challenged artfully, the premises of basic physiology. In just that respect, he was a great. --- On Sun, 2/22/09, mike Bowser <naturaldoc1@ hotmail.com> wrote: mike Bowser <naturaldoc1@ hotmail.com> RE: Re: Acupuncture Channels traditional_ chinese_medicine Sunday, February 22, 2009, 9:38 PM Curious if Mr. Kendall considered or had access to the physiological research of Dr. Kim Bonghan or more recent studies by Dr. Soh. Dr. Soh and others have had many studies of a microtubular system published in various peer-reviewed journals. As these structures appear to flow inside and along blood vessels, lymph vessels, follow the traditional pathways and attach directly to organs, makes some sense as to the interconnectedness of the network and yet their size makes them elusive. There are some interesting compounds that have been identified inside. Michael W. Bowser, LAc ykcul_ritsym@ Sun, 22 Feb 2009 18:18:36 -0800 Re: Re: Acupuncture Channels We will have to go into this again and again, as information comes in, and our own understanding develops. Mo yuan and cou li as dynamic, lots to say. --- On Sun, 2/22/09, kncherman (AT) pacbell (DOT) net <kncherman (AT) pacbell (DOT) net> wrote: kncherman (AT) pacbell (DOT) net <kncherman (AT) pacbell (DOT) net> Re: Acupuncture Channels Sunday, February 22, 2009, 7:12 PM D.E Kendalls book- The Dao of Chinese medicine has a different take on meridians ( which he says is a totaly incorrect term, he prefers vessels) He makes a case for acupuncture channels corresponding to physiological blood, lymph and nerve pathways. An example is the radial artery path along the " lung vessel " . He does not believe in an engergetic invisible energy that is not based on physiology. He translates chi as vital breath and links it a lot with oxygen. (there are many differnt types of CHi) He was a teacher of mine years ago and he spent a lot of time researching the physiology of needleing. He also reads chinese and his book his basically his translation of the chinese texts. I happen to agree with Z'ev that Wang Ju Yi's book is definitive. I think we owe it to the medicine to become as well versed and educated as possible in all areas of information related to our system of medicine. It is a daunting job, but I think we all know what the results are. - In Traditional_ Chinese_Medicine , <zrosenbe@.. .> wrote: > > Yes, Wang Ju-yi's book on acupuncture channels with Jason Robertson is > far and away the best thing in English on this subject. . .it is > definitive. > > > > On Feb 21, 2009, at 2:31 PM, Hugo Ramiro wrote: > >> Hi all, another quotation for all of you to drool over: >> >> " Acupuncture channels are not ancient models of nerve, lymph, or >> blood vessel pathways but are instead something entirely different. " >> -Wang Ju-Yi in " Applied Channel Theory " >> >> I feel it's nice to hear authoritative statement of this nature. >> >> Hugo >> >> >> Hugo Ramiro >> http://middlemedici ne.wordpress. com >> http://www.chinesem edicaltherapies. org >> >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 24, 2009 Report Share Posted February 24, 2009 I never said that all of life is explainable in these nor do I think they are everything. I do think that they start us down an important path of understanding (and explainability in our society) and this in turn can lead us to better understanding of ourselves and that many things happen when qi flows. We may never know how this is so and we should not be so quick to through it out because we think it does not explain all. I want to expand upon something that was said about assigning various aspects of our environment and our lives to the channel-point system as if a point will make you more successful or create happiness. I do not think that the channels or points work that way but do think that they can better align our body with the cosmic energies to allow for better life experiences. In this way, I see these tubules as going a long way toward this end. There is much more to the spiritual realm of Asian medicine and many experiences that may or may not be workable for all of us. Just my thoughts. Michael W. Bowser, LAc Chinese Medicine ykcul_ritsym Mon, 23 Feb 2009 20:14:39 -0800 RE: : Re: Acupuncture Channels Hi Mike, I suspect you are probably smarter than me, (which isn't saying much, i'm not that smart), but, a purely anatomical basis of qi and channels is irrational, and too limiting, for all my subjective experience has lead me too. For example, when the needles are in, and you detect that it isn't enough for the back injury, so you decide to augment it with concentration, and qigong play, and it helps, works, umm. what are the tubules doing ? What is the tool and what is the worker? I wish I was better at words. But this is kinda fun, next round on me, ok? Peace --- On Mon, 2/23/09, mike Bowser <naturaldoc1 wrote: mike Bowser <naturaldoc1 RE: : Re: Acupuncture Channels Chinese Traditional Medicine Monday, February 23, 2009, 11:04 PM As none of us were around then or able to directly ask the ancients what they meant, we only have words and lots of metaphors. As many of us know, there are lots of research projects into what the jing luo mai are, where they travel and what they contain. I think these microtubules go further then the others as far as answering the question of function and growth/development, something that other structures have failed to connect to ancient understanding. DNA, RNA and many other compounds have been found in these structures at much higher concentrations then elsewhere in the test subjects. Another common connection is that they follow the traditional descriptions of the pathways and not the blood or lymph vessels. Just something to consider, and a closer answer then the previous choices. Michael W. Bowser, LAc Chinese Medicine ykcul_ritsym Mon, 23 Feb 2009 16:29:46 -0800 : Re: Acupuncture Channels --- On Mon, 2/23/09, mystir <ykcul_ritsym wrote: mystir <ykcul_ritsym RE: Re: Acupuncture Channels Chinese Medicine Monday, February 23, 2009, 7:00 PM Maybe I misunderstood Mike. Are you saying you believe thier is certainty about these tubules being 'the' qi conduits, or as in the article Attilio referenced, that they may be interesting to consider how they may play along with the channels? Fascia, cou li, mo yuan, these microscopic tubules, many things have been put up as the real meridians, but qi seems more ephemeral(yet powerful). The structures and the qi seem like they all overlap in functions and form somewhat. The implications are fascinating. People also forward their impression that mitochondria are storehouses of qi. All this could simultaneously be so. There should, I think, be systems of receptors, and feedback and feedforward loops to the qi flowing, generating, etc. I would imagine some subtle, and not so subtle anatomical structures to be specialized for Qi in the body. But haven't seen anything conclusive, or that can be said 'Ahah! this is the meridians'. Even biophotonics hasn't isolated the elusive channel. If something shows up, or doesn't, i'm ok. I like not having everything nailed down. --- On Mon, 2/23/09, mike Bowser <naturaldoc1 wrote: mike Bowser <naturaldoc1 RE: Re: Acupuncture Channels Chinese Traditional Medicine Monday, February 23, 2009, 1:32 PM I have his original monograph and did not find anything ambiguous about the descriptions or the photographs of said structures. Did I miss something? This was published in 1964. I am unaware of anything newer as I think he passed away prior. If others have additional studies in this area, I would appreciate getting a copy. This area interest me a lot. Thanks Michael W. Bowser, LAc ykcul_ritsym@ Sun, 22 Feb 2009 20:30:22 -0800 RE: Re: Acupuncture Channels Mr. Kim Bongham's pre 1990's studies were controversial. If I have the person right. I am not someone who is averse to controversy, believe me, I swim in it, but the seperate chi pathways with tubules, etc, envisioned and described by him were given at a time of want for channel verification, on a level of tissue verification. Now we more understand all the very subtle energies operating in the living body, the variations of chi, not just another organ. All organs, mind, exist because of it, because it is pervasive, and infinite in the ways it nourishes. All our diagnostic skills, aim at seeing qi in its abundance or decline. I'm not saying he wasn't brilliant, our didn't see, or that maybe his work was misinterpreted. But I reviewed it, and the exact anotomical structures he pointed to were vague. Nonetheless, his work was a great stimulus to channel medicine, he challenged artfully, the premises of basic physiology. In just that respect, he was a great. --- On Sun, 2/22/09, mike Bowser <naturaldoc1@ hotmail.com> wrote: mike Bowser <naturaldoc1@ hotmail.com> RE: Re: Acupuncture Channels traditional_ chinese_medicine Sunday, February 22, 2009, 9:38 PM Curious if Mr. Kendall considered or had access to the physiological research of Dr. Kim Bonghan or more recent studies by Dr. Soh. Dr. Soh and others have had many studies of a microtubular system published in various peer-reviewed journals. As these structures appear to flow inside and along blood vessels, lymph vessels, follow the traditional pathways and attach directly to organs, makes some sense as to the interconnectedness of the network and yet their size makes them elusive. There are some interesting compounds that have been identified inside. Michael W. Bowser, LAc ykcul_ritsym@ Sun, 22 Feb 2009 18:18:36 -0800 Re: Re: Acupuncture Channels We will have to go into this again and again, as information comes in, and our own understanding develops. Mo yuan and cou li as dynamic, lots to say. --- On Sun, 2/22/09, kncherman (AT) pacbell (DOT) net <kncherman (AT) pacbell (DOT) net> wrote: kncherman (AT) pacbell (DOT) net <kncherman (AT) pacbell (DOT) net> Re: Acupuncture Channels Sunday, February 22, 2009, 7:12 PM D.E Kendalls book- The Dao of Chinese medicine has a different take on meridians ( which he says is a totaly incorrect term, he prefers vessels) He makes a case for acupuncture channels corresponding to physiological blood, lymph and nerve pathways. An example is the radial artery path along the " lung vessel " . He does not believe in an engergetic invisible energy that is not based on physiology. He translates chi as vital breath and links it a lot with oxygen. (there are many differnt types of CHi) He was a teacher of mine years ago and he spent a lot of time researching the physiology of needleing. He also reads chinese and his book his basically his translation of the chinese texts. I happen to agree with Z'ev that Wang Ju Yi's book is definitive. I think we owe it to the medicine to become as well versed and educated as possible in all areas of information related to our system of medicine. It is a daunting job, but I think we all know what the results are. - In Traditional_ Chinese_Medicine , <zrosenbe@.. .> wrote: > > Yes, Wang Ju-yi's book on acupuncture channels with Jason Robertson is > far and away the best thing in English on this subject. . .it is > definitive. > > > > On Feb 21, 2009, at 2:31 PM, Hugo Ramiro wrote: > >> Hi all, another quotation for all of you to drool over: >> >> " Acupuncture channels are not ancient models of nerve, lymph, or >> blood vessel pathways but are instead something entirely different. " >> -Wang Ju-Yi in " Applied Channel Theory " >> >> I feel it's nice to hear authoritative statement of this nature. >> >> Hugo >> >> >> Hugo Ramiro >> http://middlemedici ne.wordpress. com >> http://www.chinesem edicaltherapies. org >> >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 24, 2009 Report Share Posted February 24, 2009 Â Hey, thanks Mike . I know now I was mistaking you. It is a great place for exchange of these ideas, images. And I do pay attention to what you say. I think this time it was a case of not hearing your tone, maybe reading your words too fast. --- On Tue, 2/24/09, mike Bowser <naturaldoc1 wrote: mike Bowser <naturaldoc1 RE: : Re: Acupuncture Channels Chinese Traditional Medicine Tuesday, February 24, 2009, 1:36 PM I never said that all of life is explainable in these nor do I think they are everything. I do think that they start us down an important path of understanding (and explainability in our society) and this in turn can lead us to better understanding of ourselves and that many things happen when qi flows. We may never know how this is so and we should not be so quick to through it out because we think it does not explain all. I want to expand upon something that was said about assigning various aspects of our environment and our lives to the channel-point system as if a point will make you more successful or create happiness. I do not think that the channels or points work that way but do think that they can better align our body with the cosmic energies to allow for better life experiences. In this way, I see these tubules as going a long way toward this end. There is much more to the spiritual realm of Asian medicine and many experiences that may or may not be workable for all of us. Just my thoughts. Michael W. Bowser, LAc Chinese Medicine ykcul_ritsym Mon, 23 Feb 2009 20:14:39 -0800 RE: : Re: Acupuncture Channels Hi Mike, I suspect you are probably smarter than me, (which isn't saying much, i'm not that smart), but, a purely anatomical basis of qi and channels is irrational, and too limiting, for all my subjective experience has lead me too. For example, when the needles are in, and you detect that it isn't enough for the back injury, so you decide to augment it with concentration, and qigong play, and it helps, works, umm. what are the tubules doing ? What is the tool and what is the worker? I wish I was better at words. But this is kinda fun, next round on me, ok? Peace --- On Mon, 2/23/09, mike Bowser <naturaldoc1 wrote: mike Bowser <naturaldoc1 RE: : Re: Acupuncture Channels Chinese Traditional Medicine Monday, February 23, 2009, 11:04 PM As none of us were around then or able to directly ask the ancients what they meant, we only have words and lots of metaphors. As many of us know, there are lots of research projects into what the jing luo mai are, where they travel and what they contain. I think these microtubules go further then the others as far as answering the question of function and growth/development, something that other structures have failed to connect to ancient understanding. DNA, RNA and many other compounds have been found in these structures at much higher concentrations then elsewhere in the test subjects. Another common connection is that they follow the traditional descriptions of the pathways and not the blood or lymph vessels. Just something to consider, and a closer answer then the previous choices. Michael W. Bowser, LAc Chinese Medicine ykcul_ritsym Mon, 23 Feb 2009 16:29:46 -0800 : Re: Acupuncture Channels --- On Mon, 2/23/09, mystir <ykcul_ritsym wrote: mystir <ykcul_ritsym RE: Re: Acupuncture Channels Chinese Medicine Monday, February 23, 2009, 7:00 PM Maybe I misunderstood Mike. Are you saying you believe thier is certainty about these tubules being 'the' qi conduits, or as in the article Attilio referenced, that they may be interesting to consider how they may play along with the channels? Fascia, cou li, mo yuan, these microscopic tubules, many things have been put up as the real meridians, but qi seems more ephemeral(yet powerful). The structures and the qi seem like they all overlap in functions and form somewhat. The implications are fascinating. People also forward their impression that mitochondria are storehouses of qi. All this could simultaneously be so. There should, I think, be systems of receptors, and feedback and feedforward loops to the qi flowing, generating, etc. I would imagine some subtle, and not so subtle anatomical structures to be specialized for Qi in the body. But haven't seen anything conclusive, or that can be said 'Ahah! this is the meridians'. Even biophotonics hasn't isolated the elusive channel. If something shows up, or doesn't, i'm ok. I like not having everything nailed down. --- On Mon, 2/23/09, mike Bowser <naturaldoc1 wrote: mike Bowser <naturaldoc1 RE: Re: Acupuncture Channels Chinese Traditional Medicine Monday, February 23, 2009, 1:32 PM I have his original monograph and did not find anything ambiguous about the descriptions or the photographs of said structures. Did I miss something? This was published in 1964. I am unaware of anything newer as I think he passed away prior. If others have additional studies in this area, I would appreciate getting a copy. This area interest me a lot. Thanks Michael W. Bowser, LAc ykcul_ritsym@ Sun, 22 Feb 2009 20:30:22 -0800 RE: Re: Acupuncture Channels Mr. Kim Bongham's pre 1990's studies were controversial. If I have the person right. I am not someone who is averse to controversy, believe me, I swim in it, but the seperate chi pathways with tubules, etc, envisioned and described by him were given at a time of want for channel verification, on a level of tissue verification. Now we more understand all the very subtle energies operating in the living body, the variations of chi, not just another organ. All organs, mind, exist because of it, because it is pervasive, and infinite in the ways it nourishes. All our diagnostic skills, aim at seeing qi in its abundance or decline. I'm not saying he wasn't brilliant, our didn't see, or that maybe his work was misinterpreted. But I reviewed it, and the exact anotomical structures he pointed to were vague. Nonetheless, his work was a great stimulus to channel medicine, he challenged artfully, the premises of basic physiology. In just that respect, he was a great. --- On Sun, 2/22/09, mike Bowser <naturaldoc1@ hotmail.com> wrote: mike Bowser <naturaldoc1@ hotmail.com> RE: Re: Acupuncture Channels traditional_ chinese_medicine Sunday, February 22, 2009, 9:38 PM Curious if Mr. Kendall considered or had access to the physiological research of Dr. Kim Bonghan or more recent studies by Dr. Soh. Dr. Soh and others have had many studies of a microtubular system published in various peer-reviewed journals. As these structures appear to flow inside and along blood vessels, lymph vessels, follow the traditional pathways and attach directly to organs, makes some sense as to the interconnectedness of the network and yet their size makes them elusive. There are some interesting compounds that have been identified inside. Michael W. Bowser, LAc ykcul_ritsym@ Sun, 22 Feb 2009 18:18:36 -0800 Re: Re: Acupuncture Channels We will have to go into this again and again, as information comes in, and our own understanding develops. Mo yuan and cou li as dynamic, lots to say. --- On Sun, 2/22/09, kncherman (AT) pacbell (DOT) net <kncherman (AT) pacbell (DOT) net> wrote: kncherman (AT) pacbell (DOT) net <kncherman (AT) pacbell (DOT) net> Re: Acupuncture Channels Sunday, February 22, 2009, 7:12 PM D.E Kendalls book- The Dao of Chinese medicine has a different take on meridians ( which he says is a totaly incorrect term, he prefers vessels) He makes a case for acupuncture channels corresponding to physiological blood, lymph and nerve pathways. An example is the radial artery path along the " lung vessel " . He does not believe in an engergetic invisible energy that is not based on physiology. He translates chi as vital breath and links it a lot with oxygen. (there are many differnt types of CHi) He was a teacher of mine years ago and he spent a lot of time researching the physiology of needleing. He also reads chinese and his book his basically his translation of the chinese texts. I happen to agree with Z'ev that Wang Ju Yi's book is definitive. I think we owe it to the medicine to become as well versed and educated as possible in all areas of information related to our system of medicine. It is a daunting job, but I think we all know what the results are. - In Traditional_ Chinese_Medicine , <zrosenbe@.. .> wrote: > > Yes, Wang Ju-yi's book on acupuncture channels with Jason Robertson is > far and away the best thing in English on this subject. . .it is > definitive. > > > > On Feb 21, 2009, at 2:31 PM, Hugo Ramiro wrote: > >> Hi all, another quotation for all of you to drool over: >> >> " Acupuncture channels are not ancient models of nerve, lymph, or >> blood vessel pathways but are instead something entirely different. " >> -Wang Ju-Yi in " Applied Channel Theory " >> >> I feel it's nice to hear authoritative statement of this nature. >> >> Hugo >> >> >> Hugo Ramiro >> http://middlemedici ne.wordpress. com >> http://www.chinesem edicaltherapies. org >> >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 3, 2009 Report Share Posted March 3, 2009 I wanted to add that the research has also found that the channels can propagate light. This makes me think of fiber optics and usage of moxa as a signalling system. Just an FYI. Michael W. Bowser, LAc Chinese Medicine ykcul_ritsym Tue, 24 Feb 2009 10:41:33 -0800 RE: : Re: Acupuncture Channels Hey, thanks Mike . I know now I was mistaking you. It is a great place for exchange of these ideas, images. And I do pay attention to what you say. I think this time it was a case of not hearing your tone, maybe reading your words too fast. --- On Tue, 2/24/09, mike Bowser <naturaldoc1 wrote: mike Bowser <naturaldoc1 RE: : Re: Acupuncture Channels Chinese Traditional Medicine Tuesday, February 24, 2009, 1:36 PM I never said that all of life is explainable in these nor do I think they are everything. I do think that they start us down an important path of understanding (and explainability in our society) and this in turn can lead us to better understanding of ourselves and that many things happen when qi flows. We may never know how this is so and we should not be so quick to through it out because we think it does not explain all. I want to expand upon something that was said about assigning various aspects of our environment and our lives to the channel-point system as if a point will make you more successful or create happiness. I do not think that the channels or points work that way but do think that they can better align our body with the cosmic energies to allow for better life experiences. In this way, I see these tubules as going a long way toward this end. There is much more to the spiritual realm of Asian medicine and many experiences that may or may not be workable for all of us. Just my thoughts. Michael W. Bowser, LAc Chinese Medicine ykcul_ritsym Mon, 23 Feb 2009 20:14:39 -0800 RE: : Re: Acupuncture Channels Hi Mike, I suspect you are probably smarter than me, (which isn't saying much, i'm not that smart), but, a purely anatomical basis of qi and channels is irrational, and too limiting, for all my subjective experience has lead me too. For example, when the needles are in, and you detect that it isn't enough for the back injury, so you decide to augment it with concentration, and qigong play, and it helps, works, umm. what are the tubules doing ? What is the tool and what is the worker? I wish I was better at words. But this is kinda fun, next round on me, ok? Peace --- On Mon, 2/23/09, mike Bowser <naturaldoc1 wrote: mike Bowser <naturaldoc1 RE: : Re: Acupuncture Channels Chinese Traditional Medicine Monday, February 23, 2009, 11:04 PM As none of us were around then or able to directly ask the ancients what they meant, we only have words and lots of metaphors. As many of us know, there are lots of research projects into what the jing luo mai are, where they travel and what they contain. I think these microtubules go further then the others as far as answering the question of function and growth/development, something that other structures have failed to connect to ancient understanding. DNA, RNA and many other compounds have been found in these structures at much higher concentrations then elsewhere in the test subjects. Another common connection is that they follow the traditional descriptions of the pathways and not the blood or lymph vessels. Just something to consider, and a closer answer then the previous choices. Michael W. Bowser, LAc Chinese Medicine ykcul_ritsym Mon, 23 Feb 2009 16:29:46 -0800 : Re: Acupuncture Channels --- On Mon, 2/23/09, mystir <ykcul_ritsym wrote: mystir <ykcul_ritsym RE: Re: Acupuncture Channels Chinese Medicine Monday, February 23, 2009, 7:00 PM Maybe I misunderstood Mike. Are you saying you believe thier is certainty about these tubules being 'the' qi conduits, or as in the article Attilio referenced, that they may be interesting to consider how they may play along with the channels? Fascia, cou li, mo yuan, these microscopic tubules, many things have been put up as the real meridians, but qi seems more ephemeral(yet powerful). The structures and the qi seem like they all overlap in functions and form somewhat. The implications are fascinating. People also forward their impression that mitochondria are storehouses of qi. All this could simultaneously be so. There should, I think, be systems of receptors, and feedback and feedforward loops to the qi flowing, generating, etc. I would imagine some subtle, and not so subtle anatomical structures to be specialized for Qi in the body. But haven't seen anything conclusive, or that can be said 'Ahah! this is the meridians'. Even biophotonics hasn't isolated the elusive channel. If something shows up, or doesn't, i'm ok. I like not having everything nailed down. --- On Mon, 2/23/09, mike Bowser <naturaldoc1 wrote: mike Bowser <naturaldoc1 RE: Re: Acupuncture Channels Chinese Traditional Medicine Monday, February 23, 2009, 1:32 PM I have his original monograph and did not find anything ambiguous about the descriptions or the photographs of said structures. Did I miss something? This was published in 1964. I am unaware of anything newer as I think he passed away prior. If others have additional studies in this area, I would appreciate getting a copy. This area interest me a lot. Thanks Michael W. Bowser, LAc ykcul_ritsym@ Sun, 22 Feb 2009 20:30:22 -0800 RE: Re: Acupuncture Channels Mr. Kim Bongham's pre 1990's studies were controversial. If I have the person right. I am not someone who is averse to controversy, believe me, I swim in it, but the seperate chi pathways with tubules, etc, envisioned and described by him were given at a time of want for channel verification, on a level of tissue verification. Now we more understand all the very subtle energies operating in the living body, the variations of chi, not just another organ. All organs, mind, exist because of it, because it is pervasive, and infinite in the ways it nourishes. All our diagnostic skills, aim at seeing qi in its abundance or decline. I'm not saying he wasn't brilliant, our didn't see, or that maybe his work was misinterpreted. But I reviewed it, and the exact anotomical structures he pointed to were vague. Nonetheless, his work was a great stimulus to channel medicine, he challenged artfully, the premises of basic physiology. In just that respect, he was a great. --- On Sun, 2/22/09, mike Bowser <naturaldoc1@ hotmail.com> wrote: mike Bowser <naturaldoc1@ hotmail.com> RE: Re: Acupuncture Channels traditional_ chinese_medicine Sunday, February 22, 2009, 9:38 PM Curious if Mr. Kendall considered or had access to the physiological research of Dr. Kim Bonghan or more recent studies by Dr. Soh. Dr. Soh and others have had many studies of a microtubular system published in various peer-reviewed journals. As these structures appear to flow inside and along blood vessels, lymph vessels, follow the traditional pathways and attach directly to organs, makes some sense as to the interconnectedness of the network and yet their size makes them elusive. There are some interesting compounds that have been identified inside. Michael W. Bowser, LAc ykcul_ritsym@ Sun, 22 Feb 2009 18:18:36 -0800 Re: Re: Acupuncture Channels We will have to go into this again and again, as information comes in, and our own understanding develops. Mo yuan and cou li as dynamic, lots to say. --- On Sun, 2/22/09, kncherman (AT) pacbell (DOT) net <kncherman (AT) pacbell (DOT) net> wrote: kncherman (AT) pacbell (DOT) net <kncherman (AT) pacbell (DOT) net> Re: Acupuncture Channels Sunday, February 22, 2009, 7:12 PM D.E Kendalls book- The Dao of Chinese medicine has a different take on meridians ( which he says is a totaly incorrect term, he prefers vessels) He makes a case for acupuncture channels corresponding to physiological blood, lymph and nerve pathways. An example is the radial artery path along the " lung vessel " . He does not believe in an engergetic invisible energy that is not based on physiology. He translates chi as vital breath and links it a lot with oxygen. (there are many differnt types of CHi) He was a teacher of mine years ago and he spent a lot of time researching the physiology of needleing. He also reads chinese and his book his basically his translation of the chinese texts. I happen to agree with Z'ev that Wang Ju Yi's book is definitive. I think we owe it to the medicine to become as well versed and educated as possible in all areas of information related to our system of medicine. It is a daunting job, but I think we all know what the results are. - In Traditional_ Chinese_Medicine , <zrosenbe@.. .> wrote: > > Yes, Wang Ju-yi's book on acupuncture channels with Jason Robertson is > far and away the best thing in English on this subject. . .it is > definitive. > > > > On Feb 21, 2009, at 2:31 PM, Hugo Ramiro wrote: > >> Hi all, another quotation for all of you to drool over: >> >> " Acupuncture channels are not ancient models of nerve, lymph, or >> blood vessel pathways but are instead something entirely different. " >> -Wang Ju-Yi in " Applied Channel Theory " >> >> I feel it's nice to hear authoritative statement of this nature. >> >> Hugo >> >> >> Hugo Ramiro >> http://middlemedici ne.wordpress. com >> http://www.chinesem edicaltherapies. org >> >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 3, 2009 Report Share Posted March 3, 2009 Right, fascinating. Sometimes, some people can actually 'see' them a little, under the right conditions. Insects can too, I believe. They often seem to go to the place with most abundant qi and blood, the buggers. --- On Tue, 3/3/09, mike Bowser <naturaldoc1 wrote: mike Bowser <naturaldoc1 RE: : Re: Acupuncture Channels Chinese Traditional Medicine Tuesday, March 3, 2009, 1:54 PM I wanted to add that the research has also found that the channels can propagate light. This makes me think of fiber optics and usage of moxa as a signalling system. Just an FYI. Michael W. Bowser, LAc Chinese Medicine ykcul_ritsym Tue, 24 Feb 2009 10:41:33 -0800 RE: : Re: Acupuncture Channels Hey, thanks Mike . I know now I was mistaking you. It is a great place for exchange of these ideas, images. And I do pay attention to what you say. I think this time it was a case of not hearing your tone, maybe reading your words too fast. --- On Tue, 2/24/09, mike Bowser <naturaldoc1 wrote: mike Bowser <naturaldoc1 RE: : Re: Acupuncture Channels Chinese Traditional Medicine Tuesday, February 24, 2009, 1:36 PM I never said that all of life is explainable in these nor do I think they are everything. I do think that they start us down an important path of understanding (and explainability in our society) and this in turn can lead us to better understanding of ourselves and that many things happen when qi flows. We may never know how this is so and we should not be so quick to through it out because we think it does not explain all. I want to expand upon something that was said about assigning various aspects of our environment and our lives to the channel-point system as if a point will make you more successful or create happiness. I do not think that the channels or points work that way but do think that they can better align our body with the cosmic energies to allow for better life experiences. In this way, I see these tubules as going a long way toward this end. There is much more to the spiritual realm of Asian medicine and many experiences that may or may not be workable for all of us. Just my thoughts. Michael W. Bowser, LAc Chinese Medicine ykcul_ritsym Mon, 23 Feb 2009 20:14:39 -0800 RE: : Re: Acupuncture Channels Hi Mike, I suspect you are probably smarter than me, (which isn't saying much, i'm not that smart), but, a purely anatomical basis of qi and channels is irrational, and too limiting, for all my subjective experience has lead me too. For example, when the needles are in, and you detect that it isn't enough for the back injury, so you decide to augment it with concentration, and qigong play, and it helps, works, umm. what are the tubules doing ? What is the tool and what is the worker? I wish I was better at words. But this is kinda fun, next round on me, ok? Peace --- On Mon, 2/23/09, mike Bowser <naturaldoc1 wrote: mike Bowser <naturaldoc1 RE: : Re: Acupuncture Channels Chinese Traditional Medicine Monday, February 23, 2009, 11:04 PM As none of us were around then or able to directly ask the ancients what they meant, we only have words and lots of metaphors. As many of us know, there are lots of research projects into what the jing luo mai are, where they travel and what they contain. I think these microtubules go further then the others as far as answering the question of function and growth/development, something that other structures have failed to connect to ancient understanding. DNA, RNA and many other compounds have been found in these structures at much higher concentrations then elsewhere in the test subjects. Another common connection is that they follow the traditional descriptions of the pathways and not the blood or lymph vessels. Just something to consider, and a closer answer then the previous choices. Michael W. Bowser, LAc Chinese Medicine ykcul_ritsym Mon, 23 Feb 2009 16:29:46 -0800 : Re: Acupuncture Channels --- On Mon, 2/23/09, mystir <ykcul_ritsym wrote: mystir <ykcul_ritsym RE: Re: Acupuncture Channels Chinese Medicine Monday, February 23, 2009, 7:00 PM Maybe I misunderstood Mike. Are you saying you believe thier is certainty about these tubules being 'the' qi conduits, or as in the article Attilio referenced, that they may be interesting to consider how they may play along with the channels? Fascia, cou li, mo yuan, these microscopic tubules, many things have been put up as the real meridians, but qi seems more ephemeral(yet powerful). The structures and the qi seem like they all overlap in functions and form somewhat. The implications are fascinating. People also forward their impression that mitochondria are storehouses of qi. All this could simultaneously be so. There should, I think, be systems of receptors, and feedback and feedforward loops to the qi flowing, generating, etc. I would imagine some subtle, and not so subtle anatomical structures to be specialized for Qi in the body. But haven't seen anything conclusive, or that can be said 'Ahah! this is the meridians'. Even biophotonics hasn't isolated the elusive channel. If something shows up, or doesn't, i'm ok. I like not having everything nailed down. --- On Mon, 2/23/09, mike Bowser <naturaldoc1 wrote: mike Bowser <naturaldoc1 RE: Re: Acupuncture Channels Chinese Traditional Medicine Monday, February 23, 2009, 1:32 PM I have his original monograph and did not find anything ambiguous about the descriptions or the photographs of said structures. Did I miss something? This was published in 1964. I am unaware of anything newer as I think he passed away prior. If others have additional studies in this area, I would appreciate getting a copy. This area interest me a lot. Thanks Michael W. Bowser, LAc ykcul_ritsym@ Sun, 22 Feb 2009 20:30:22 -0800 RE: Re: Acupuncture Channels Mr. Kim Bongham's pre 1990's studies were controversial. If I have the person right. I am not someone who is averse to controversy, believe me, I swim in it, but the seperate chi pathways with tubules, etc, envisioned and described by him were given at a time of want for channel verification, on a level of tissue verification. Now we more understand all the very subtle energies operating in the living body, the variations of chi, not just another organ. All organs, mind, exist because of it, because it is pervasive, and infinite in the ways it nourishes. All our diagnostic skills, aim at seeing qi in its abundance or decline. I'm not saying he wasn't brilliant, our didn't see, or that maybe his work was misinterpreted. But I reviewed it, and the exact anotomical structures he pointed to were vague. Nonetheless, his work was a great stimulus to channel medicine, he challenged artfully, the premises of basic physiology. In just that respect, he was a great. --- On Sun, 2/22/09, mike Bowser <naturaldoc1@ hotmail.com> wrote: mike Bowser <naturaldoc1@ hotmail.com> RE: Re: Acupuncture Channels traditional_ chinese_medicine Sunday, February 22, 2009, 9:38 PM Curious if Mr. Kendall considered or had access to the physiological research of Dr. Kim Bonghan or more recent studies by Dr. Soh. Dr. Soh and others have had many studies of a microtubular system published in various peer-reviewed journals. As these structures appear to flow inside and along blood vessels, lymph vessels, follow the traditional pathways and attach directly to organs, makes some sense as to the interconnectedness of the network and yet their size makes them elusive. There are some interesting compounds that have been identified inside. Michael W. Bowser, LAc ykcul_ritsym@ Sun, 22 Feb 2009 18:18:36 -0800 Re: Re: Acupuncture Channels We will have to go into this again and again, as information comes in, and our own understanding develops. Mo yuan and cou li as dynamic, lots to say. --- On Sun, 2/22/09, kncherman (AT) pacbell (DOT) net <kncherman (AT) pacbell (DOT) net> wrote: kncherman (AT) pacbell (DOT) net <kncherman (AT) pacbell (DOT) net> Re: Acupuncture Channels Sunday, February 22, 2009, 7:12 PM D.E Kendalls book- The Dao of Chinese medicine has a different take on meridians ( which he says is a totaly incorrect term, he prefers vessels) He makes a case for acupuncture channels corresponding to physiological blood, lymph and nerve pathways. An example is the radial artery path along the " lung vessel " . He does not believe in an engergetic invisible energy that is not based on physiology. He translates chi as vital breath and links it a lot with oxygen. (there are many differnt types of CHi) He was a teacher of mine years ago and he spent a lot of time researching the physiology of needleing. He also reads chinese and his book his basically his translation of the chinese texts. I happen to agree with Z'ev that Wang Ju Yi's book is definitive. I think we owe it to the medicine to become as well versed and educated as possible in all areas of information related to our system of medicine. It is a daunting job, but I think we all know what the results are. - In Traditional_ Chinese_Medicine , <zrosenbe@.. .> wrote: > > Yes, Wang Ju-yi's book on acupuncture channels with Jason Robertson is > far and away the best thing in English on this subject. . .it is > definitive. > > > > On Feb 21, 2009, at 2:31 PM, Hugo Ramiro wrote: > >> Hi all, another quotation for all of you to drool over: >> >> " Acupuncture channels are not ancient models of nerve, lymph, or >> blood vessel pathways but are instead something entirely different. " >> -Wang Ju-Yi in " Applied Channel Theory " >> >> I feel it's nice to hear authoritative statement of this nature. >> >> Hugo >> >> >> Hugo Ramiro >> http://middlemedici ne.wordpress. com >> http://www.chinesem edicaltherapies. org >> >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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