Guest guest Posted November 4, 2006 Report Share Posted November 4, 2006 By simply tonifying the Kidneys with Kang Gu Zeng Sheng OPian and Qi Ju Di Huang or Jin Gui Shen Qi Wan, and treating the pain with acupuncture, you can do a lot. Boodletting methods are also great. Speak to me more in detail about the case and I will help you. You can call me at 626 487-1815 during business hours. Robert Chu, L.Ac., QME, PhD chusauli www.chusaulei.com > " Gina Zuleger " <gzuleger > > > ankylosing spondylitis >Sat, 04 Nov 2006 04:02:02 -0000 > > > >Hi all. > >Any experience treating ankylosing spondylitis? My friend was just >diagnosed after 6 years >of western tests and frequent and debilitating episodes of pain. He was >getting acupuncture >w/o resolve. Was never on herbs. He is reluctantly going to start >injecting himself with a >new $1,000/per dose of a heavy immuno-suppressant every other week. He is >hoping that it >will put him into remission, and he will be able to go off of it soon. > >Any stories, experiences, suggestions? > >I looked in the archives. There was mention of a formula used in China >called Bu Shen Qiang >Du Tang. Nobody knew the ingredients at the time of the post. > >Thanks in advance. > >Gina Zuleger > > > _______________ Try Search Survival Kits: Fix up your home and better handle your cash with Live Search! http://imagine-windowslive.com/search/kits/default.aspx?kit=improve & locale=en-US\ & source=hmtagline Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 5, 2006 Report Share Posted November 5, 2006 I was just reading through some magazines and saw that bu shen qiang du tang was mentioned in a recent Zhong Yi Za Zhi, JTCM, June 2006,Vo1.47,No.6 in the treatment of 259 cases of ankylosing spondylitis. It is made up of the following ingredients: shu di huang 10 yin yang huo 10 gou ji 30 fu zi 10 lu jiao jiao 10 du zhong 25 gu sui bu 15 bu gu zhi 10 qiang huo 10 du huo 10 gui zhi 10 xu duan 20 chi shao 10 bai shao 10 zhi mu 10 fang feng 10 niu xi 6 chuan shan jia 10 best regards, Tom. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 7, 2006 Report Share Posted November 7, 2006 Thank you Robert and Tom. Robert, I will likely contact you in about 3 months about this case. Jason, my friend, currently lives in Denver. He will be moving to Southern California in February. In the meantime, I will look for a good herbalist in Denver to refer him to. Then I will take over his case when he moves here. Thank you kindly for your time, in advance. Gina Zuleger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 28, 2009 Report Share Posted February 28, 2009 Does anyone have experience with ankylosing spondylitis? Patient (28 year old male) came to me with pain and tingling in his wrists and shoulders, no allopathic treatment has had any effect. I thought he had carpal tunnel/thoracic outlet syndrome. He is pale, thin, SP def tongue and pulse. Very anxious and obsessive, extremely sensitve to needles. 2 treatments and no effect so far, usually i can get relief for patients with one acup tx for C tunnel with some simple yoga exercises added in. A few days ago he told me his physio gave him the above (new) dx, wondering if anyone knows about treating this type of idiopathic arthritis that can occur in young males? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 1, 2009 Report Share Posted March 1, 2009 I have ankylosing spondylitis. I have it pretty bad. It's the reason I went to school for TCM instead of law school. The root is kidney and liver essence deficiency. I can make you a whole list of stuff that helps. - " Larissa McGoldrick " <larimcgoldrick <Chinese Medicine > Saturday, February 28, 2009 2:57 AM Ankylosing spondylitis > Does anyone have experience with ankylosing spondylitis? Patient (28 year > old male) came to > me with pain and tingling in his wrists and shoulders, no allopathic > treatment has had any > effect. I thought he had carpal tunnel/thoracic outlet syndrome. He is > pale, thin, SP def > tongue and pulse. Very anxious and obsessive, extremely sensitve to > needles. 2 treatments > and no effect so far, usually i can get relief for patients with one acup > tx for C tunnel with > some simple yoga exercises added in. A few days ago he told me his physio > gave him the > above (new) dx, wondering if anyone knows about treating this type of > idiopathic arthritis > that can occur in young males? > > > > --- > > Subscribe to the free online journal for TCM at Times > http://www.chinesemedicinetimes.com > > Help build the world's largest online encyclopedia for Chinese medicine > and acupuncture, click, http://www.chinesemedicinetimes.com/wiki/CMTpedia > > > and adjust > accordingly. > > Messages are the property of the author. Any duplication outside the group > requires prior permission from the author. > > Please consider the environment and only print this message if absolutely > necessary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 1, 2009 Report Share Posted March 1, 2009 I did treat a patient with this. She didn't stay long. She didn't have much movement in her neck and the acupuncture did help that. She stated finances as a reason for dropping out of treatment. What I would suggest is to do your research on herbals that will help (I didn't do any of these because I didn't have the knowledge then) and I would also look at Dr. Tan's website for way to clear those channels. You can do a search on his forum. Anne Anne C. Crowley, L.Ac., Dipl.Ac. www.LaPlataAcupuncture.com - " Larissa McGoldrick " <larimcgoldrick " Traditional " <Chinese Medicine > Saturday, February 28, 2009 5:57:05 AM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern  Ankylosing spondylitis Does anyone have experience with ankylosing spondylitis? Patient (28 year old male) came to me with pain and tingling in his wrists and shoulders, no allopathic treatment has had any effect. I thought he had carpal tunnel/thoracic outlet syndrome. He is pale, thin, SP def tongue and pulse. Very anxious and obsessive, extremely sensitve to needles. 2 treatments and no effect so far, usually i can get relief for patients with one acup tx for C tunnel with some simple yoga exercises added in. A few days ago he told me his physio gave him the above (new) dx, wondering if anyone knows about treating this type of idiopathic arthritis that can occur in young males? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 2, 2009 Report Share Posted March 2, 2009 I have a patient currently that I was able to help with AS, using acupuncture/moxa only. He is no longer on his as-needed medication and was able to return to full normal activities. I use mainly Kiiko's style of acupuncture along with some of the work of Skya-Abate Gardner, for clearing the abdominal areas. Interesting that he came in for allergy problems and did not mention having AS till a time later. I only heard about this as he stated that he no longer was having this SI pain. I see him now on an as needed seasonal maintenance program. I spent a lot of time educating him about what I was doing and why and the expectations were clear for both of us and I encouraged him to share this with his rheumatologist. He then sent many of his other family members and both parents. The efforts in this made the extra time spent well worth it. Please let me know if you want more info or help with this. Michael W. Bowser, LAc Chinese Medicine magisterium_magnum Sat, 28 Feb 2009 23:48:35 -0800 Re: Ankylosing spondylitis I have ankylosing spondylitis. I have it pretty bad. It's the reason I went to school for TCM instead of law school. The root is kidney and liver essence deficiency. I can make you a whole list of stuff that helps. - " Larissa McGoldrick " <larimcgoldrick <Chinese Medicine > Saturday, February 28, 2009 2:57 AM Ankylosing spondylitis > Does anyone have experience with ankylosing spondylitis? Patient (28 year > old male) came to > me with pain and tingling in his wrists and shoulders, no allopathic > treatment has had any > effect. I thought he had carpal tunnel/thoracic outlet syndrome. He is > pale, thin, SP def > tongue and pulse. Very anxious and obsessive, extremely sensitve to > needles. 2 treatments > and no effect so far, usually i can get relief for patients with one acup > tx for C tunnel with > some simple yoga exercises added in. A few days ago he told me his physio > gave him the > above (new) dx, wondering if anyone knows about treating this type of > idiopathic arthritis > that can occur in young males? > > > > --- > > Subscribe to the free online journal for TCM at Times > http://www.chinesemedicinetimes.com > > Help build the world's largest online encyclopedia for Chinese medicine > and acupuncture, click, http://www.chinesemedicinetimes.com/wiki/CMTpedia > > > and adjust > accordingly. > > Messages are the property of the author. Any duplication outside the group > requires prior permission from the author. > > Please consider the environment and only print this message if absolutely > necessary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 2, 2009 Report Share Posted March 2, 2009 I would love to hear some of the treatments. I have Kiko's book, Clinical Strategies, Vol 1. Never studied with her. Thanks, Anne Anne C. Crowley, L.Ac., Dipl.Ac. www.LaPlataAcupuncture.com - " mike Bowser " <naturaldoc1 " traditional chinese medicine " <Chinese Traditional Medicine > Sunday, March 1, 2009 7:53:56 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern RE:  Ankylosing spondylitis I have a patient currently that I was able to help with AS, using acupuncture/moxa only.  He is no longer on his as-needed medication and was able to return to full normal activities.  I use mainly Kiiko's style of acupuncture along with some of the work of Skya-Abate Gardner, for clearing the abdominal areas.  Interesting that he came in for allergy problems and did not mention having AS till a time later.  I only heard about this as he stated that he no longer was having this SI pain.  I see him now on an as needed seasonal maintenance program.  I spent a lot of time educating him about what I was doing and why and the expectations were clear for both of us and I encouraged him to share this with his rheumatologist.  He then sent many of his other family members and both parents.  The efforts in this made the extra time spent well worth it.  Please let me know if you want more info or help with this. Michael W. Bowser, LAc Chinese Medicine magisterium_magnum Sat, 28 Feb 2009 23:48:35 -0800 Re:  Ankylosing spondylitis           I have ankylosing spondylitis.  I have it pretty bad.  It's the reason I went to school for TCM instead of law school.  The root is kidney and liver essence deficiency.  I can make you a whole list of stuff that helps. - " Larissa McGoldrick " <larimcgoldrick <Chinese Medicine > Saturday, February 28, 2009 2:57 AM Ankylosing spondylitis > Does anyone have experience with ankylosing spondylitis?  Patient (28 year > old male) came to > me with pain and tingling in his wrists and shoulders, no allopathic > treatment has had any > effect.  I thought he had carpal tunnel/thoracic outlet syndrome.  He is > pale, thin, SP def > tongue and pulse.  Very anxious and obsessive, extremely sensitve to > needles.  2 treatments > and no effect so far, usually i can get relief for patients with one acup > tx for C tunnel with > some simple yoga exercises added in.  A few days ago he told me his physio > gave him the > above (new) dx, wondering if anyone knows about treating this type of > idiopathic arthritis > that can occur in young males? > > > > --- > > Subscribe to the free online journal for TCM at Times > http://www.chinesemedicinetimes.com > > Help build the world's largest online encyclopedia for Chinese medicine > and acupuncture, click, http://www.chinesemedicinetimes.com/wiki/CMTpedia > > > and adjust > accordingly. > > Messages are the property of the author. Any duplication outside the group > requires prior permission from the author. > > Please consider the environment and only print this message if absolutely > necessary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 3, 2009 Report Share Posted March 3, 2009 Anne,As I check the abdomen:1) feel pulse and determine if stomach qi is weak and then needle/moxa along the stomach channel line where bumps are felt below St 36 and 2) clear lower left quadrant (oketsu) with Liv 4 (L) and Lu 5 (L), then3) check and clear the lower right quadrant (immunity near McBirney's pt with area between LI and Lung channels from LI 10 - LI 11 and use needles and 8-15 direct moxa cones. 4) check adrenal areas at 4 and 8 o'clock around navel and treat with kid 6 and needle/moxa kid 16 as well. Then5) I deviate sometimes and further clear out the elemental phase areas according to a text on Abdominal Palpation written by Skya Abate-Gardner. 6) Finally, I find out if there is any concern left. If there is, then treat the channel with distal or local points. I insert 1, 2, 3, 4 from above as a set, then the 5 phase areas as a set, and finally any remaining local pain or discomfort as a set. Each of these is about 20 minutes before removal and insertion of a new group. This also follows the insurance billing closely for acupuncture, making practice and making money nicely aligned although I do not take much insurance except for auto. Hope this helps. Michael W. Bowser, LAc Chinese Medicine anne.crowley Mon, 2 Mar 2009 15:12:50 +0000 Re: Ankylosing spondylitis I would love to hear some of the treatments. I have Kiko's book, Clinical Strategies, Vol 1. Never studied with her. Thanks, Anne Anne C. Crowley, L.Ac., Dipl.Ac. www.LaPlataAcupuncture.com - " mike Bowser " <naturaldoc1 " traditional chinese medicine " <Chinese Traditional Medicine > Sunday, March 1, 2009 7:53:56 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern RE: Ankylosing spondylitis I have a patient currently that I was able to help with AS, using acupuncture/moxa only. He is no longer on his as-needed medication and was able to return to full normal activities. I use mainly Kiiko's style of acupuncture along with some of the work of Skya-Abate Gardner, for clearing the abdominal areas. Interesting that he came in for allergy problems and did not mention having AS till a time later. I only heard about this as he stated that he no longer was having this SI pain. I see him now on an as needed seasonal maintenance program. I spent a lot of time educating him about what I was doing and why and the expectations were clear for both of us and I encouraged him to share this with his rheumatologist. He then sent many of his other family members and both parents. The efforts in this made the extra time spent well worth it. Please let me know if you want more info or help with this. Michael W. Bowser, LAc Chinese Medicine magisterium_magnum Sat, 28 Feb 2009 23:48:35 -0800 Re: Ankylosing spondylitis I have ankylosing spondylitis. I have it pretty bad. It's the reason I went to school for TCM instead of law school. The root is kidney and liver essence deficiency. I can make you a whole list of stuff that helps. - " Larissa McGoldrick " <larimcgoldrick <Chinese Medicine > Saturday, February 28, 2009 2:57 AM Ankylosing spondylitis > Does anyone have experience with ankylosing spondylitis? Patient (28 year > old male) came to > me with pain and tingling in his wrists and shoulders, no allopathic > treatment has had any > effect. I thought he had carpal tunnel/thoracic outlet syndrome. He is > pale, thin, SP def > tongue and pulse. Very anxious and obsessive, extremely sensitve to > needles. 2 treatments > and no effect so far, usually i can get relief for patients with one acup > tx for C tunnel with > some simple yoga exercises added in. A few days ago he told me his physio > gave him the > above (new) dx, wondering if anyone knows about treating this type of > idiopathic arthritis > that can occur in young males? > > > > --- > > Subscribe to the free online journal for TCM at Times > http://www.chinesemedicinetimes.com > > Help build the world's largest online encyclopedia for Chinese medicine > and acupuncture, click, http://www.chinesemedicinetimes.com/wiki/CMTpedia > > > and adjust > accordingly. > > Messages are the property of the author. Any duplication outside the group > requires prior permission from the author. > > Please consider the environment and only print this message if absolutely > necessary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 3, 2009 Report Share Posted March 3, 2009 Thanks, Mike. I will need to get busy studying this. Thanks for your time. Anne Anne C. Crowley, L.Ac., Dipl.Ac. www.LaPlataAcupuncture.com - " mike Bowser " <naturaldoc1 " traditional chinese medicine " <Chinese Traditional Medicine > Monday, March 2, 2009 11:00:53 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern RE:  Ankylosing spondylitis Anne,As I check the abdomen:1) feel pulse and determine if stomach qi is weak and then needle/moxa along the stomach channel line where bumps are felt below St 36 and 2) clear lower left quadrant (oketsu) with Liv 4 (L) and Lu 5 (L), then3) check and clear the lower right quadrant (immunity near McBirney's pt with area between LI and Lung channels from LI 10 - LI 11 and use needles and 8-15 direct moxa cones. 4) check adrenal areas at 4 and 8 o'clock around navel and treat with kid 6 and needle/moxa kid 16 as well. Then5) I deviate sometimes and further clear out the elemental phase areas according to a text on Abdominal Palpation written by Skya Abate-Gardner. 6) Finally, I find out if there is any concern left. If there is, then treat the channel with distal or local points. I insert 1, 2, 3, 4 from above as a set, then the 5 phase areas as a set, and finally any remaining local pain or discomfort as a set. Each of these is about 20 minutes before removal and insertion of a new group. This also follows the insurance billing closely for acupuncture, making practice and making money nicely aligned although I do not take much insurance except for auto. Hope this helps. Michael W. Bowser, LAc Chinese Medicine anne.crowley Mon, 2 Mar 2009 15:12:50 +0000 Re: Ankylosing spondylitis I would love to hear some of the treatments. I have Kiko's book, Clinical Strategies, Vol 1. Never studied with her. Thanks, Anne Anne C. Crowley, L.Ac., Dipl.Ac. www.LaPlataAcupuncture.com - " mike Bowser " < naturaldoc1 > " traditional chinese medicine " < Chinese Traditional Medicine > Sunday, March 1, 2009 7:53:56 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern RE: Ankylosing spondylitis I have a patient currently that I was able to help with AS, using acupuncture/moxa only. He is no longer on his as-needed medication and was able to return to full normal activities. I use mainly Kiiko's style of acupuncture along with some of the work of Skya-Abate Gardner, for clearing the abdominal areas. Interesting that he came in for allergy problems and did not mention having AS till a time later. I only heard about this as he stated that he no longer was having this SI pain. I see him now on an as needed seasonal maintenance program. I spent a lot of time educating him about what I was doing and why and the expectations were clear for both of us and I encouraged him to share this with his rheumatologist. He then sent many of his other family members and both parents. The efforts in this made the extra time spent well worth it. Please let me know if you want more info or help with this. Michael W. Bowser, LAc Chinese Medicine magisterium_magnum Sat, 28 Feb 2009 23:48:35 -0800 Re: Ankylosing spondylitis I have ankylosing spondylitis. I have it pretty bad. It's the reason I went to school for TCM instead of law school. The root is kidney and liver essence deficiency. I can make you a whole list of stuff that helps. - " Larissa McGoldrick " < larimcgoldrick > < Chinese Medicine > Saturday, February 28, 2009 2:57 AM Ankylosing spondylitis > Does anyone have experience with ankylosing spondylitis? Patient (28 year > old male) came to > me with pain and tingling in his wrists and shoulders, no allopathic > treatment has had any > effect. I thought he had carpal tunnel/thoracic outlet syndrome. He is > pale, thin, SP def > tongue and pulse. Very anxious and obsessive, extremely sensitve to > needles. 2 treatments > and no effect so far, usually i can get relief for patients with one acup > tx for C tunnel with > some simple yoga exercises added in. A few days ago he told me his physio > gave him the > above (new) dx, wondering if anyone knows about treating this type of > idiopathic arthritis > that can occur in young males? > > > > --- > > Subscribe to the free online journal for TCM at Times > http://www.chinesemedicinetimes.com > > Help build the world's largest online encyclopedia for Chinese medicine > and acupuncture, click, http://www.chinesemedicinetimes.com/wiki/CMTpedia > > > and adjust > accordingly. > > Messages are the property of the author. Any duplication outside the group > requires prior permission from the author. > > Please consider the environment and only print this message if absolutely > necessary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 3, 2009 Report Share Posted March 3, 2009 Anne, There really is no substitute for direct experience with this style. It has taken me many years to wrap my head around some of the concepts and ideas. Please take some training with Kiiko, David Uler, Holly Eagle or with others that have spent time with her. Palpation is what makes this style so successful and yet so simple, like many of the popular Japanese styles. Most of our schools do not really work to help us develop our sense of touch, what a big mistake. The text you mention along with vol 2 should be a part of all acupuncture libraries. This work I find to be refreshing and this style of acupuncture has made it more fun now then ever. Michael W. Bowser, LAc Chinese Medicine anne.crowley Tue, 3 Mar 2009 04:06:01 +0000 Re: Ankylosing spondylitis Thanks, Mike. I will need to get busy studying this. Thanks for your time. Anne Anne C. Crowley, L.Ac., Dipl.Ac. www.LaPlataAcupuncture.com - " mike Bowser " <naturaldoc1 " traditional chinese medicine " <Chinese Traditional Medicine > Monday, March 2, 2009 11:00:53 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern RE: Ankylosing spondylitis Anne,As I check the abdomen:1) feel pulse and determine if stomach qi is weak and then needle/moxa along the stomach channel line where bumps are felt below St 36 and 2) clear lower left quadrant (oketsu) with Liv 4 (L) and Lu 5 (L), then3) check and clear the lower right quadrant (immunity near McBirney's pt with area between LI and Lung channels from LI 10 - LI 11 and use needles and 8-15 direct moxa cones. 4) check adrenal areas at 4 and 8 o'clock around navel and treat with kid 6 and needle/moxa kid 16 as well. Then5) I deviate sometimes and further clear out the elemental phase areas according to a text on Abdominal Palpation written by Skya Abate-Gardner. 6) Finally, I find out if there is any concern left. If there is, then treat the channel with distal or local points. I insert 1, 2, 3, 4 from above as a set, then the 5 phase areas as a set, and finally any remaining local pain or discomfort as a set. Each of these is about 20 minutes before removal and insertion of a new group. This also follows the insurance billing closely for acupuncture, making practice and making money nicely aligned although I do not take much insurance except for auto. Hope this helps. Michael W. Bowser, LAc Chinese Medicine anne.crowley Mon, 2 Mar 2009 15:12:50 +0000 Re: Ankylosing spondylitis I would love to hear some of the treatments. I have Kiko's book, Clinical Strategies, Vol 1. Never studied with her. Thanks, Anne Anne C. Crowley, L.Ac., Dipl.Ac. www.LaPlataAcupuncture.com - " mike Bowser " < naturaldoc1 > " traditional chinese medicine " < Chinese Traditional Medicine > Sunday, March 1, 2009 7:53:56 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern RE: Ankylosing spondylitis I have a patient currently that I was able to help with AS, using acupuncture/moxa only. He is no longer on his as-needed medication and was able to return to full normal activities. I use mainly Kiiko's style of acupuncture along with some of the work of Skya-Abate Gardner, for clearing the abdominal areas. Interesting that he came in for allergy problems and did not mention having AS till a time later. I only heard about this as he stated that he no longer was having this SI pain. I see him now on an as needed seasonal maintenance program. I spent a lot of time educating him about what I was doing and why and the expectations were clear for both of us and I encouraged him to share this with his rheumatologist. He then sent many of his other family members and both parents. The efforts in this made the extra time spent well worth it. Please let me know if you want more info or help with this. Michael W. Bowser, LAc Chinese Medicine magisterium_magnum Sat, 28 Feb 2009 23:48:35 -0800 Re: Ankylosing spondylitis I have ankylosing spondylitis. I have it pretty bad. It's the reason I went to school for TCM instead of law school. The root is kidney and liver essence deficiency. I can make you a whole list of stuff that helps. - " Larissa McGoldrick " < larimcgoldrick > < Chinese Medicine > Saturday, February 28, 2009 2:57 AM Ankylosing spondylitis > Does anyone have experience with ankylosing spondylitis? Patient (28 year > old male) came to > me with pain and tingling in his wrists and shoulders, no allopathic > treatment has had any > effect. I thought he had carpal tunnel/thoracic outlet syndrome. He is > pale, thin, SP def > tongue and pulse. Very anxious and obsessive, extremely sensitve to > needles. 2 treatments > and no effect so far, usually i can get relief for patients with one acup > tx for C tunnel with > some simple yoga exercises added in. A few days ago he told me his physio > gave him the > above (new) dx, wondering if anyone knows about treating this type of > idiopathic arthritis > that can occur in young males? > > > > --- > > Subscribe to the free online journal for TCM at Times > http://www.chinesemedicinetimes.com > > Help build the world's largest online encyclopedia for Chinese medicine > and acupuncture, click, http://www.chinesemedicinetimes.com/wiki/CMTpedia > > > and adjust > accordingly. > > Messages are the property of the author. Any duplication outside the group > requires prior permission from the author. > > Please consider the environment and only print this message if absolutely > necessary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 3, 2009 Report Share Posted March 3, 2009 I can vouch for what Mike is saying. I have been practicing Japanese Palpatory styles for 10 years now - it informs about 80% of what I do in clinic - opens up a entirely different understanding and perspective you can share with the patients - and a whole rich way to make sense of their medical histories. Daniel Chinese Medicine , mike Bowser <naturaldoc1 wrote: > > > Anne, > > > There really is no substitute for direct experience with this style. It has taken me many years to wrap my head around some of the concepts and ideas. Please take some training with Kiiko, David Uler, Holly Eagle or with others that have spent time with her. > > Palpation is what makes this style so successful and yet so simple, like many of the popular Japanese styles. > > Most of our schools do not really work to help us develop our sense of touch, what a big mistake. The text you mention along with vol 2 should be a part of all acupuncture libraries. > > > This work I find to be refreshing and this style of acupuncture has made it more fun now then ever. > > > Michael W. Bowser, LAc > Chinese Medicine > anne.crowley > Tue, 3 Mar 2009 04:06:01 +0000 > Re: Ankylosing spondylitis > Thanks, Mike. I will need to get busy studying this. Thanks for your time. > > Anne > > Anne C. Crowley, L.Ac., Dipl.Ac. > www.LaPlataAcupuncture.com > > - > " mike Bowser " <naturaldoc1 > " traditional chinese medicine " <Chinese Traditional Medicine > > Monday, March 2, 2009 11:00:53 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern > RE: Ankylosing spondylitis > > Anne,As I check the abdomen:1) feel pulse and determine if stomach qi is weak and then needle/moxa along the stomach channel line where bumps are felt below St 36 and 2) clear lower left quadrant (oketsu) with Liv 4 (L) and Lu 5 (L), then3) check and clear the lower right quadrant (immunity near McBirney's pt with area between LI and Lung channels from LI 10 - LI 11 and use needles and 8-15 direct moxa cones. 4) check adrenal areas at 4 and 8 o'clock around navel and treat with kid 6 and needle/moxa kid 16 as well. Then5) I deviate sometimes and further clear out the elemental phase areas according to a text on Abdominal Palpation written by Skya Abate-Gardner. 6) Finally, I find out if there is any concern left. If there is, then treat the channel with distal or local points. > I insert 1, 2, 3, 4 from above as a set, then the 5 phase areas as a set, and finally any remaining local pain or discomfort as a set. Each of these is about 20 minutes before removal and insertion of a new group. This also follows the insurance billing closely for acupuncture, making practice and making money nicely aligned although I do not take much insurance except for auto. Hope this helps. > > Michael W. Bowser, LAc > Chinese Medicine > anne.crowley > Mon, 2 Mar 2009 15:12:50 +0000 > Re: Ankylosing spondylitis > > I would love to hear some of the treatments. I have Kiko's book, Clinical Strategies, Vol 1. Never studied with her. > > Thanks, > > Anne > > Anne C. Crowley, L.Ac., Dipl.Ac. > > www.LaPlataAcupuncture.com > > - > > " mike Bowser " < naturaldoc1 > > > " traditional chinese medicine " < Chinese Traditional Medicine > > > Sunday, March 1, 2009 7:53:56 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern > > RE: Ankylosing spondylitis > > I have a patient currently that I was able to help with AS, using acupuncture/moxa only. He is no longer on his as-needed medication and was able to return to full normal activities. I use mainly Kiiko's style of acupuncture along with some of the work of Skya- Abate Gardner, for clearing the abdominal areas. Interesting that he came in for allergy problems and did not mention having AS till a time later. I only heard about this as he stated that he no longer was having this SI pain. I see him now on an as needed seasonal maintenance program. I spent a lot of time educating him about what I was doing and why and the expectations were clear for both of us and I encouraged him to share this with his rheumatologist. > > He then sent many of his other family members and both parents. The efforts in this made the extra time spent well worth it. Please let me know if you want more info or help with this. > > Michael W. Bowser, LAc > > Chinese Medicine > > magisterium_magnum > > Sat, 28 Feb 2009 23:48:35 -0800 > > Re: Ankylosing spondylitis > > I have ankylosing spondylitis. I have it pretty bad. It's the reason I > > went to school for TCM instead of law school. The root is kidney and liver > > essence deficiency. I can make you a whole list of stuff that helps. > > - > > " Larissa McGoldrick " < larimcgoldrick > > > < Chinese Medicine > > > Saturday, February 28, 2009 2:57 AM > > Ankylosing spondylitis > > > Does anyone have experience with ankylosing spondylitis? Patient (28 year > > > old male) came to > > > me with pain and tingling in his wrists and shoulders, no allopathic > > > treatment has had any > > > effect. I thought he had carpal tunnel/thoracic outlet syndrome. He is > > > pale, thin, SP def > > > tongue and pulse. Very anxious and obsessive, extremely sensitve to > > > needles. 2 treatments > > > and no effect so far, usually i can get relief for patients with one acup > > > tx for C tunnel with > > > some simple yoga exercises added in. A few days ago he told me his physio > > > gave him the > > > above (new) dx, wondering if anyone knows about treating this type of > > > idiopathic arthritis > > > that can occur in young males? > > > > > > > > > > > > --- > > > > > > Subscribe to the free online journal for TCM at Times > > > http://www.chinesemedicinetimes.com > > > > > > Help build the world's largest online encyclopedia for Chinese medicine > > > and acupuncture, click, http://www.chinesemedicinetimes.com/wiki/CMTpedia > > > > > > > > > and adjust > > > accordingly. > > > > > > Messages are the property of the author. Any duplication outside the group > > > requires prior permission from the author. > > > > > > Please consider the environment and only print this message if absolutely > > > necessary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 4, 2009 Report Share Posted March 4, 2009 Larissa, I wonder how you puncture your patient since he is 'extremely sensitive to needles'. If you do acupuncture as gentle as acupuncturists of Japanese style (correct me if I am wrong as I have no exposure to that style), he probably won't feel a thing in his hauto acupoints bilaternally? In Chengdu, we do AS patients with team effort (4 to 5) because lots of work involved and be quick. Needling is necessary (to get rid of inflammation between vertebra) followed by moxi (with special preparation of medicinals mixed with moxi acting to penetrate the skins) along the affected spinal location. Sometimes, we use special medicinal tonic/liquid soaked in cotton ball covered all spinal area to subsitute moxi. Acupuncture alone will take much longer time to see results. Patients usually are relieved and stand up a bit straighter than when he entering the clinic. Some acupuncturists are able to precibe internal medicine to boost the deficiency, others don't. Intake of remedies helps a lot as the nature of the disease is a deficient one. Hope that helps. SUNG, Yuk-ming Phd (Chengdu), BA¡]Houston), L Ac. (Hong Kong) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 4, 2009 Report Share Posted March 4, 2009 Thanks for your reply Suk Ming, I use Seirin blue and red needles with him, he jumps and cries out with each needle insertion. i have not studied Japanese style acupuncture in any great depth (a few workshops and lots of reading) but on the other hand i usually have no complaints about my needling! However he is getting a bit more relaxed and easy with the treatments now that he trusts me and the process a bit more. I wish i had access to the medicinal tonic that you use in Chengdu. Is there any tonic sold here in the UK or in the US that you can recommend? So you work mainly on the Hwatuo points along the spine for AS patients? Many grateful thanks to you and all the responses to the posting, I have really learned much from all of you, Larissa Chinese Medicine , " sxm2649 " <sxm2649 wrote: > > Larissa, > > I wonder how you puncture your patient since he is 'extremely sensitive to needles'. If you do acupuncture as gentle as acupuncturists of Japanese style (correct me if I am wrong as I have no exposure to that style), he probably won't feel a thing in his hauto acupoints bilaternally? > > In Chengdu, we do AS patients with team effort (4 to 5) because lots of work involved and be quick. Needling is necessary (to get rid of inflammation between vertebra) followed by moxi (with special preparation of medicinals mixed with moxi acting to penetrate the skins) along the affected spinal location. Sometimes, we use special medicinal tonic/liquid soaked in cotton ball covered all spinal area to subsitute moxi. Acupuncture alone will take much longer time to see results. Patients usually are relieved and stand up a bit straighter than when he entering the clinic. > > Some acupuncturists are able to precibe internal medicine to boost the deficiency, others don't. Intake of remedies helps a lot as the nature of the disease is a deficient one. > > Hope that helps. > > SUNG, Yuk-ming > Phd (Chengdu), BA¡]Houston), L Ac. (Hong Kong) > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 5, 2009 Report Share Posted March 5, 2009 could you just use the laser to ac the points? by 640nm red light? Sincerely, Patricia Jordan DVM,CVA,CTCVM & Herbology Chinese Medicine larimcgoldrick Wed, 4 Mar 2009 22:00:58 +0000 Re: Ankylosing spondylitis Thanks for your reply Suk Ming, I use Seirin blue and red needles with him, he jumps and cries out with each needle insertion. i have not studied Japanese style acupuncture in any great depth (a few workshops and lots of reading) but on the other hand i usually have no complaints about my needling! However he is getting a bit more relaxed and easy with the treatments now that he trusts me and the process a bit more. I wish i had access to the medicinal tonic that you use in Chengdu. Is there any tonic sold here in the UK or in the US that you can recommend? So you work mainly on the Hwatuo points along the spine for AS patients? Many grateful thanks to you and all the responses to the posting, I have really learned much from all of you, Larissa Chinese Medicine , " sxm2649 " <sxm2649 wrote: > > Larissa, > > I wonder how you puncture your patient since he is 'extremely sensitive to needles'. If you do acupuncture as gentle as acupuncturists of Japanese style (correct me if I am wrong as I have no exposure to that style), he probably won't feel a thing in his hauto acupoints bilaternally? > > In Chengdu, we do AS patients with team effort (4 to 5) because lots of work involved and be quick. Needling is necessary (to get rid of inflammation between vertebra) followed by moxi (with special preparation of medicinals mixed with moxi acting to penetrate the skins) along the affected spinal location. Sometimes, we use special medicinal tonic/liquid soaked in cotton ball covered all spinal area to subsitute moxi. Acupuncture alone will take much longer time to see results. Patients usually are relieved and stand up a bit straighter than when he entering the clinic. > > Some acupuncturists are able to precibe internal medicine to boost the deficiency, others don't. Intake of remedies helps a lot as the nature of the disease is a deficient one. > > Hope that helps. > > SUNG, Yuk-ming > Phd (Chengdu), BA¡]Houston), L Ac. (Hong Kong) > _______________ Hotmail® is up to 70% faster. Now good news travels really fast. http://windowslive.com/online/hotmail?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_70faster_032009 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 6, 2009 Report Share Posted March 6, 2009 Larissa, The ideal ingredient of medicinal liquid is musk, adding to the medicinal liquid for bone-setting purpose. As musk is an endangered or restricted medicinal, I wonder if you are accessible to them. Besides, with the weak pound, it is quite expensive though you only need a few grams. You have to settle with ordinary medicinal liquid. I lost my contact with a graduate of TCM fr Middlesex in Hong Kong so I have no idea what kind of these medicinal liquid is available in UK. Your best bet is to consult your lecturers in your institute. I bought mine in China and have prepared some by my own. Just put several medicinals of wind-dispelling, blood-moving, damp-dispersing, kidney-tonifying, etc together and soak in double-boiled white wine for a couple of weeks and are ready to use. Probably you have to buy the large jar (2.5 litre to 5 litre) of white wine made in China (alcohol 60% is the best quality, will settle for 30%) in grocery stores in Chinatown. So you have plenty and can use for other rheumatoid arthritis patients as well. As another list member suggests the root issue of AS is deficiency. Herbal remedies are necessary. Prescribe according to the principle of pattern identification in Jin Gui Yao Lue. AS patients suffer a lot of pain and are sensitive to needling. The less use of needling the better as remedies help with immune deficiency issue already. My 2 cents, SUNG, Yuk-ming, Phd (Chengdu), BA¡]Houston), L Ac. (Hong Kong) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 7, 2010 Report Share Posted January 7, 2010 I hope they don't mind me forwarding this from the colloidal silver list. It's got some great info on ankylosing spondylitis. I had never heard of the knox gelatin thing before. But that sounds very cool, and I'm going to try it on myself. http://www.streetdirectory.com/travel_guide/110992/rheumatology/knox_gelatin_for\ _arthritis___knox_gelatine_for_arthritis.html That's some info on knox gelatin for arthritis. But the major etiology of AS is EXTREME YIN DRYNESS. Regular doctors will NEVER tell you that. It is NOT rheumatoid arthritis, nor does it fullfill the criteria to be categorized as such. It is PSORIATIC arthritis, which I never knew until I was in TCM school here and I was taking a dermatology course. Anyway, there is MUCH that can be done to treat AS. I actually wrote a paper on it for school. I'll see if I can find it. I'll give an overview of stuff that I have found to be very effective when I have more time. Thanks. Hydrate hydrate hydrate. Smartwater is better than gatorade. Doesn't have the sugar. Also, smoking is very drying. Tobacco has a hot, extremely dry property. - Vigilius Haufniensis silver-list Monday, December 21, 2009 6:16 PM ANKYLOSING SPONDYLITIS Ankylosing spondylitis is exactly the type of spinal arthritis I have, and you are exactly right. I'll dig up some of the stuff I've written on AS. In , the underlying energetic pattern is extreme yin dryness. MD's will always tell you that AS is rheumatoid arthritis, but it is NOT. It is PSORIATIC ARTHRITIS, which I had never heard until I can here and was taking a TCM Dermatology course. Interestingly, at the electroherbalism site, there is a set of frequencies for AS combined with psoriasis. The etiology of psoriasis is extreme yin dryness and dehydration. Thanks for the info about the gelatin treatments. I'll share what I've found to work as well. HYDRATION, acupuncture, qigong, herbs (properly designed formulas, modified to fit the individual) and Rolfing. (Reichian body oriented psychoanalysis, but that's hard to find, so do Rolfing instead.) Tell me about this knox gelatin treatment! Right now, I'm experimenting with essential oils, matching their functions and indications with those of acupuncture points. Very promising. - Brooks Bradley silver-list Monday, December 21, 2009 5:55 PM [RE]CS>Spinal Arthritis Dear Steve, Your wife has my heartfelt sympathy. I suffered from PRONOUNCED ankylosing spondylitis for many years (between ages of 30 and 50), during which interval the allopathic community failed to gain ANY distinct relief.....for me. My case was considerably aggravated by the fact I have a congenital deformation of the 5th lower lumbar (a region which very often presents a major insult). Circa about 1980, I was forced to start sleeping on an inclined 2 " X 12 " X 8' wooden plank......with the head-end resting on the outer edge of a heavy captain's chair.....in order to obtain any measurable degree of pain relief-----not to mention sleep. By 1990 (via continual pain killers, hot saunas and a HIGH-tenison, compression-type spinal brace), the discomfort....and outright pain, although episodic in nature----had reached a point that nothing I attempted effected any measurable pain reduction....for any extended period of time (hours). Quite serendipitously, I stumbled across a medical article by some Chinese researcher....on the benefits of utilizing gelatin obtained from cattle carcasses (plain Knox-type) aiding in the re-establishment of eroded cartilage-type tissues. As a " drowning man would grasp at a straw " , I initiated a protocol which included a pronounced intake of Knox gelatin (about four small boxes daily). I began to enjoy noticeable improvement within 5 days....and PRONOUNCED improvement-----within 20 days. Overjoyed, I informed my associates of this splendid turn of events. Several of them (five, in fact) were experiencing similar....if not as overpowering....disagreeable spinal presentations. All five initiated my basic protocol. When two of them reported similar WONDERFUL results, as mine....three reported little, if any, marked relief. Puzzled, I closely interrogated each as to their EXACT protocol. At first I could determine NO detectable variation....but upon more refined questioning, I determined there was one, fundamental difference. That, being that the two positive responders were consuming a second glass of water with each dosage (with 8 ounce glasses, this equals 32 ounces of additional water). As this research occurred some years prior to Dr. Batmanhelidj's seminal work on the very powerful effects of systemic dehydration upon the human body......it had never occurred to me (OR the allopathic medical community) that chronic dehydration was such a powerful player in a very large number of chronic/systemic afflictions suffered by humans.....most especially OLDER ONES. Upon repeating the original protocol, with the addition of the added water intake, all three of the volunteers experienced very powerful improvements. Two enjoyed considerably better gains in general relief over the next 30 days, and the third individual did gain what he described as " enormous pain abatement " . Four of the five original subjects required no additional address, of any kind, other than a scheduled increase in daily water consumption. The fourth, gained very significant relief, but continued to " backslide " on maintaining his increased water intake....resulting in periodic relapses. Additionally, I was spurred to investigate the condition of chronic dehydration in the elderly (65 and over), and was shocked to find that the " thirst reflex " in persons (especially men) diminishes as much as 50%-----and, sometimes, is life-threatening " ------ without ANY recognizable medical or behavior symptoms. I hasten to advise that over the immediately past 17 years we have learned of other improvements in personal healthcare which have resulted in a vast improvement in addresses for arthritis......especially articulating-joint presentations. I do not have the time, at present, to elaborate in detail, on all of our useful discoveries (the bulk of which are at present known to the entire alternative community), but will add a brief statement as to what we have experienced to be one of the most effective and economical.....general....protocols, for supporting acceptable joint health in human beings. One simple regimen is as follows: MSM---6 grams as a prophylactic); Glucosamine Sulphate----2000 mg; Chrondroitin---3000 mg (either as a purchased supplement or in the form of a nutritional gelatin); 1 heaping teaspoon of marine kelp (acts as a wide-spectrum catalyst--for many systemic reactions; while optional, the following is strongly recommended for ANYONE who has had articulating-joint compromises at ANY point in their health history: CMO---1 level teaspoon, preferably divided into two doses. This is only a prophylactic dosage.....and far to small for addressing major insults. While we have experienced very acceptable results from MANY different substances, found outside of the allopathic nostrums, those listed above yielded the most favorable responses.....considering efficacy , non-toxicity , and cost economy. Sincerely, Brooks Bradley. O,S. My apologies for such a lengthy post, but this is an area of general health that is very significant to me....and I have the scars to prove it. For those of the list membership who are unaware of his work, I can do no better than to recommend Dr. Batmanhelidj's fascinating book " Your Body's Many Cries for Water " . I can assure you that you will find it to be quite fascinating...as well as informative. ---------[ Received Mail Content ]---------- Subject : CS>Spinal Arthritis Date : Sun, 20 Dec 2009 10:05:53 -0700 From : " S & JY " <youngs To : " Silver List " <silver-list My wife has been diagnosed with arthritis of the spine, as confirmed by MRI. This causes her severe pain, compounded by the effects of fibromyalgia. Question for list: CMO helps with arthritis of joints, and the spine is a series of connected joints. Does anyone know if CMO, or any other similar " medication " , can help with spinal arthritis? Thanks, Steve Y. -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Instructions for unsubscribing are posted at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list Address Off-Topic messages to: silver-off-topic-list The Silver List and Off Topic List archives are currently down... List maintainer: Mike Devour Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 8, 2010 Report Share Posted January 8, 2010 Thank you Mercurious for this info. Has anyone else heard of this therapy? I will look into it. I would really like more info about Chinese herbs, especially in relation to this specific case. Hot and Cold symptoms, Black tongue. Thank you, Petra Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 8, 2010 Report Share Posted January 8, 2010 Thank you Mercurious for this info. Has anyone else heard of this therapy? I will look into it. I would really like more info about Chinese herbs, especially in relation to this specific case. Hot and Cold symptoms, Black tongue. Thank you, Petra Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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