Guest guest Posted April 29, 2009 Report Share Posted April 29, 2009 Hi Donna & All, Donna Kelleher wrote: > comfrey is boneknit not boneset As far as I know there is only one > boneset (I use it a lot in my pain remedies) Donna, the reason for my plea to use the Latin name of herbs PLUS the " common (English) name " is precisely because common usage often gives MANY different names to the same herb, and some of these names also apply to totally different herbs. Symphytum-officinale and Eupatorium- perfoliatum are good examples of that. Google searches indicate that Bone-set, Knit-bone and Bone-knit are all used as synonyms for Comfrey-Symphytum-officinale. Unfortunately, Bone-set and Knit-bone also are used as synonyms for Eupatorium- perfoliatum. Eupatorium (NOT Symphytum) was a key herb used by eclectic doctors to treat patients during the Great Flu pandemic (1918-1919) and pneumonia subsequent to it. In a random 100 datasets on favourite [homeopathic] remedies used by those doctors, remedy citation percentages were: 89 Gelsemium 80 Bryonia 76 Aconite 53 Macrotys 48 Eupatorium 36 Veratrum 35 Lobelia 31 Asclepias 22 Ipecac 17 Sanguinaria 16 Belladonna 11 Echinacea 11 Rhus-tox 8 Cactus In summary, the 7 most used [homeopathic] remedies used in flu cases (1918-1919) seem to have been Gels, Bry, Acon, Macrotys, Eupatorium, Veratrum and Lobelia, in that order. However, many doctors stressed that the remedy of choice varied with each case, according to the specific SSs and indications of each remedy. What is NOT clear to me is the dose rates used. I amnot certain if they used homeopathic doses, or much higher herbal doses. Comment anyone? Especially in pneumonia +/- pain, many eclectic doctors also used topical applications to chest, including Libradol / camphorated Oil / Stillingia liniment / Compound emetic powder / antiphlogistine / turpentine in goose-grease / lard / castor oil, etc, covered by flannel or larded paper or a special cotton jacket. See: http://tinyurl.com/cstglh See especially www.herbaltherapeutics.net/Favorite_Remedies.pdf For more detail, also see: http://tinyurl.com/df4mgl Best regards, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 30, 2009 Report Share Posted April 30, 2009 Hi Beth & All, > On dosages of Bonset (Eupatorium perfoliatum). It was traditionally > used as a tea, mixed 50/50 with Yarrow (Achillea millefolium), taken as > hot as one can stand it to increases diaphoresis. It is not usually > used as a simple because too much might cause nausea. If one were using > it as a tincture, combining it with Yarrow and Elderberry and maybe > adding a small amount of a carminative herb, where 1/3 to 1/4 of the > formula were boneset, one could take up to 3 mls 3-4 times a day. > Again this should be put into hot water to increase its diaphoretic > properties. Beth Lambert Beth, many thanks, One should be sure that the spp is really Eupatorium perfoliatum That spp is said to be non-toxic at standard doses, but other Eupatorium spp are documented as toxic to animals. My data from different sources on Eupatorium perfoliatum are conflicting. Below are the data from 2 different Datasets (A and B, respectively). I would appreciate expert comment on which of these datasets is correct, or are both correct? Note that Eupatorium perfoliatum has several different Pinyin names. This accounts for the differing data in the 2 sets. PINYIN NAME A: Guanyezelan; Zelanshu; Beimeide Guanyezelan B: Peilan; LATIN NAME A: Hb (Fl + Fm) Eupatorii perfoliati Fl + Fm B: Hb (Cacumen + Fl) Eupatorii Fortunei / Perfoliati ENGLISH NAME A: Eupatorium Fl + Fm; North American Eupatorium perfoliatum B: Eupatorium; dried Fm + flowering tops of Eupatorium perfoliatum; Boneset; Thoroughwort; Thoroughstem; Thoroughwax; Crosswort; Indian Sage; Everwort Flowering Tops; Fortune Eupatorium Hb; Sweating Plant; HERB CLASS A: Disperse Damp~ Aromatic; Antirheumatic B: ?? TEMP A: Warm~ slightly; some spp are TOXIC B: Even; Aromatic; Non-TOXIC; no depressing qualities; NATURE A: Acrid; Bitter B: Acrid; Mild CHANNELS A: LV; SP B: SJM-SP*-ST*; LV, SI-LI; uterus ACTIVE INGREDIENTS A: ?? B: has glucoside, eupatorin + crystallizable body of the nature of wax DOSE A: use as Powder, Extract / Tincture; Some spp are TOXIC; caution w dose rate; Zelancha (Eupatorium tea) to Tx Heat Diseases / fever in virus diseases; B: As Dec: Powdered Hb: 12-20 grains / 1.3-2g; some say 3-10g / dose (Dec later); Fluid extract, 0.5-1 drachm; Eupatorin: 1-3grains; As fresh Hb: 15-30g / dose; as emetic / cathartic, make strong Dec (boil 28g with 750ml water, simmered to 500ml); dose, 120-240ml, or more; MAIN ACTIONS A: Aromatic~ Open + Drain Passages; Activate Xue; Resolve Xueyu; Move Water; Lessen Swelling; Release Toxin; Tonic, diuretic, diaphoretic, emetic aperient, taenifuge B: (1) Antimalarial*; Febrifuge; Make Sweat (esp when taken hot in large doses but may cause emesis); Clear Summerheat; Clear Summer Wind Heat + Damp; Clear Damp + Heat; Px Heatstroke*; Px summer Ganmao*; Clear Heat; Disperse Damp~ Aromatic; Release Exterior; (2) in small doses (esp taken Cold / as alcoholic prep) act as Stimulant Bitter; Tonic~ mild, Appetiser, Digestive Aperient / Laxative; Tone SP; Rectify SJM; Disperse SJM Damp; Disperse Damp~ Aromatic; Expel SP Damp; Ease Emesis; Ease Diarrhoea; acts slowly & persistently; (3) large doses (esp given Hot) are Purgative, Emetic + Taeniafuge; bc of its nauseating action, warm infusion tends to Make Sweat; earlier works class it as a diuretic in oedema, but this is wrong [Eupatorium purpureum (purple-flowered Boneset / Gravel Root) is Diuretic]; CLINICAL USES A: menses~ irregular, dysmenorrhoea, amenorrhoea, postpartum Xueyu + Stag w abdomen pain, injury dt falls + blows, body surface oedema + swelling, ascites, abscesses / carbuncle w ulcers / sores dt Toxin; B: (1) use as HOT Infusion in doses of a wineglassful every 30 minutes to Make Sweat in malaria / fever esp fever~ intermittent, typhoid & yellow fever / Phlegm esp in Ganmao / flu / flu w muscular rheumatism; keep patient in bed; after 4-5 doses, profuse perspiration is caused & relief is obtained; popular name " Boneset " comes from its great value to Tx Break-Bone Fever, a type of flu w bone pain; Heatstroke*; Summer Ganmao*; flu [p- cymene + neryl acetate inhibit flu viruses]; abort attacks of muscular rheumatism, flu / Ganmao; Summerheat; Summer Wind Heat + Damp; Damp + Heat; SP Xu; SJM Disharmony; SJM Damp; SP Damp; SJM Damp Retention + chest + abdomen feeling of fullness + oppression, appetite~ poor, nausea, emesis, diarrhoea + mouth~ feeling of Sweetness + greasiness; Emesis; Diarrhoea; Summerheat + Damp + chills, fever, head~ fullness + chest~ feeling of oppression; SJM DysFx; flu; fever; bronchitis~ acute; respiratory mucous congestion; naso-pharyngeal Phlegm; flu w deep aching + congestion (specific); (2) as Tonic / Appetiser / Digestive, use Cold in dyspepsia & general debility esp in indigestion~ geriatric; aids rapid convalescence; (3) to purge / expel tapeworms; Anhidrosis; constipation; skin diseases; Specific Indications: pulse large + full, w little waves; skin hot & full, w tendency to become moist, even during progress of fever; pain~ deep-seated aching (so-called " bone pains " ) in muscles & periosteum; cough, dyspnoea & chest pain; urine turbid & pollakisuria; flu w cough & aching pain; COMBINATIONS A: (1) Guanyezelan + Danggui, Sanleng, Yanhusuo etc to Activate Xue, Rectify Menses + Analgesic for menses~ irregular, dysmenorrhea; Zelancha (Eupatorium tea) to Rectify Qi + Activate Xue for menses~ irregular (early / late), use Zelanye 10g, Luchaye 1g; put in cup & brew in boiling water for drinking, several times a day; (2) Guanyezelan + Fangji is esp good for postpartum Xueyu + Qizhi causing oedema; (3) Guanyezelan + Baiji, wine- fried + taken orally to Activate Xue, Resolve Swelling + Release Toxin for tumours / swelling dt Toxin; B: (1) Peilan + Huoxiang, Jiangbanxia / Fabanxia, Houpo, Chenpi, etc in SJM Damp Attack + chest stuffiness + abdomen distension + mouth~ sweet taste, foul smell; F: sticky, etc; Peilan + Huoxiang, Houpo, Lianye, etc in fever + headache, chest stuffiness + appetite~ poor in Summerheat in summer; (2) Peilan + Huoxiang to Px Heatstroke*; Px summer Ganmao* CAUTION A: Caution in Xuexu wo Xueyu; CI in pregnancy; B: ?? Help, please! The discrepancies between these 2 datasets are about the worst in my herbal files! Best regards, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 1, 2009 Report Share Posted May 1, 2009 Hi Beth & All, > On dosages of Bonset (Eupatorium perfoliatum). It was traditionally > used as a tea, mixed 50/50 with Yarrow (Achillea millefolium), taken as > hot as one can stand it to increases diaphoresis. It is not usually > used as a simple because too much might cause nausea. If one were using > it as a tincture, combining it with Yarrow and Elderberry and maybe > adding a small amount of a carminative herb, where 1/3 to 1/4 of the > formula were boneset, one could take up to 3 mls 3-4 times a day. > Again this should be put into hot water to increase its diaphoretic > properties. Beth Lambert Beth, many thanks, One should be sure that the spp is really Eupatorium perfoliatum That spp is said to be non-toxic at standard doses, but other Eupatorium spp are documented as toxic to animals. My data from different sources on Eupatorium perfoliatum are conflicting. Below are the data from 2 different Datasets (A and B, respectively). I would appreciate expert comment on which of these datasets is correct, or are both correct? Note that Eupatorium perfoliatum has several different Pinyin names. This accounts for the differing data in the 2 sets. PINYIN NAME A: Guanyezelan; Zelanshu; Beimeide Guanyezelan B: Peilan; LATIN NAME A: Hb (Fl + Fm) Eupatorii perfoliati Fl + Fm B: Hb (Cacumen + Fl) Eupatorii Fortunei / Perfoliati ENGLISH NAME A: Eupatorium Fl + Fm; North American Eupatorium perfoliatum B: Eupatorium; dried Fm + flowering tops of Eupatorium perfoliatum; Boneset; Thoroughwort; Thoroughstem; Thoroughwax; Crosswort; Indian Sage; Everwort Flowering Tops; Fortune Eupatorium Hb; Sweating Plant; HERB CLASS A: Disperse Damp~ Aromatic; Antirheumatic B: ?? TEMP A: Warm~ slightly; some spp are TOXIC B: Even; Aromatic; Non-TOXIC; no depressing qualities; NATURE A: Acrid; Bitter B: Acrid; Mild CHANNELS A: LV; SP B: SJM-SP*-ST*; LV, SI-LI; uterus ACTIVE INGREDIENTS A: ?? B: has glucoside, eupatorin + crystallizable body of the nature of wax DOSE A: use as Powder, Extract / Tincture; Some spp are TOXIC; caution w dose rate; Zelancha (Eupatorium tea) to Tx Heat Diseases / fever in virus diseases; B: As Dec: Powdered Hb: 12-20 grains / 1.3-2g; some say 3-10g / dose (Dec later); Fluid extract, 0.5-1 drachm; Eupatorin: 1-3grains; As fresh Hb: 15-30g / dose; as emetic / cathartic, make strong Dec (boil 28g with 750ml water, simmered to 500ml); dose, 120-240ml, or more; MAIN ACTIONS A: Aromatic~ Open + Drain Passages; Activate Xue; Resolve Xueyu; Move Water; Lessen Swelling; Release Toxin; Tonic, diuretic, diaphoretic, emetic aperient, taenifuge B: (1) Antimalarial*; Febrifuge; Make Sweat (esp when taken hot in large doses but may cause emesis); Clear Summerheat; Clear Summer Wind Heat + Damp; Clear Damp + Heat; Px Heatstroke*; Px summer Ganmao*; Clear Heat; Disperse Damp~ Aromatic; Release Exterior; (2) in small doses (esp taken Cold / as alcoholic prep) act as Stimulant Bitter; Tonic~ mild, Appetiser, Digestive Aperient / Laxative; Tone SP; Rectify SJM; Disperse SJM Damp; Disperse Damp~ Aromatic; Expel SP Damp; Ease Emesis; Ease Diarrhoea; acts slowly & persistently; (3) large doses (esp given Hot) are Purgative, Emetic + Taeniafuge; bc of its nauseating action, warm infusion tends to Make Sweat; earlier works class it as a diuretic in oedema, but this is wrong [Eupatorium purpureum (purple-flowered Boneset / Gravel Root) is Diuretic]; CLINICAL USES A: menses~ irregular, dysmenorrhoea, amenorrhoea, postpartum Xueyu + Stag w abdomen pain, injury dt falls + blows, body surface oedema + swelling, ascites, abscesses / carbuncle w ulcers / sores dt Toxin; B: (1) use as HOT Infusion in doses of a wineglassful every 30 minutes to Make Sweat in malaria / fever esp fever~ intermittent, typhoid & yellow fever / Phlegm esp in Ganmao / flu / flu w muscular rheumatism; keep patient in bed; after 4-5 doses, profuse perspiration is caused & relief is obtained; popular name " Boneset " comes from its great value to Tx Break-Bone Fever, a type of flu w bone pain; Heatstroke*; Summer Ganmao*; flu [p- cymene + neryl acetate inhibit flu viruses]; abort attacks of muscular rheumatism, flu / Ganmao; Summerheat; Summer Wind Heat + Damp; Damp + Heat; SP Xu; SJM Disharmony; SJM Damp; SP Damp; SJM Damp Retention + chest + abdomen feeling of fullness + oppression, appetite~ poor, nausea, emesis, diarrhoea + mouth~ feeling of Sweetness + greasiness; Emesis; Diarrhoea; Summerheat + Damp + chills, fever, head~ fullness + chest~ feeling of oppression; SJM DysFx; flu; fever; bronchitis~ acute; respiratory mucous congestion; naso-pharyngeal Phlegm; flu w deep aching + congestion (specific); (2) as Tonic / Appetiser / Digestive, use Cold in dyspepsia & general debility esp in indigestion~ geriatric; aids rapid convalescence; (3) to purge / expel tapeworms; Anhidrosis; constipation; skin diseases; Specific Indications: pulse large + full, w little waves; skin hot & full, w tendency to become moist, even during progress of fever; pain~ deep-seated aching (so-called " bone pains " ) in muscles & periosteum; cough, dyspnoea & chest pain; urine turbid & pollakisuria; flu w cough & aching pain; COMBINATIONS A: (1) Guanyezelan + Danggui, Sanleng, Yanhusuo etc to Activate Xue, Rectify Menses + Analgesic for menses~ irregular, dysmenorrhea; Zelancha (Eupatorium tea) to Rectify Qi + Activate Xue for menses~ irregular (early / late), use Zelanye 10g, Luchaye 1g; put in cup & brew in boiling water for drinking, several times a day; (2) Guanyezelan + Fangji is esp good for postpartum Xueyu + Qizhi causing oedema; (3) Guanyezelan + Baiji, wine- fried + taken orally to Activate Xue, Resolve Swelling + Release Toxin for tumours / swelling dt Toxin; B: (1) Peilan + Huoxiang, Jiangbanxia / Fabanxia, Houpo, Chenpi, etc in SJM Damp Attack + chest stuffiness + abdomen distension + mouth~ sweet taste, foul smell; F: sticky, etc; Peilan + Huoxiang, Houpo, Lianye, etc in fever + headache, chest stuffiness + appetite~ poor in Summerheat in summer; (2) Peilan + Huoxiang to Px Heatstroke*; Px summer Ganmao* CAUTION A: Caution in Xuexu wo Xueyu; CI in pregnancy; B: ?? Help, please! The discrepancies between these 2 datasets are about the worst in my herbal files! Best regards, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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