Guest guest Posted April 29, 2009 Report Share Posted April 29, 2009 Don and CHA members, Are many of you using MET for pain management? Can you offer some resources for learning more about MET... Books, seminars, people to look up on the web? Thanks for any help with this. Sincerely, David Vitello Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 30, 2009 Report Share Posted April 30, 2009 Dear David, I only know of 5 other AOM practitioners that use it and Dr. Darren Starwyn is one of the and I am the other. Darren actively promotes his methodology and sells equipment. On the other hand, I am too busy seeing actually seeing patients and running a business to do this type of thing. I cannot do both and how others are able to is beyond me. Secondly, I do not teach anyone my methodologies except those that are in my employ; and even then there are contractural arrangements. Another person that may teach you is Peter Lathrop. He is an acupuncturist and actually designs equipment. Him and Darren had an arrangement some time ago. Hope this helps. I am, Yours sincerely, Dr. Don J. Snow, DAOM, MPH, L.Ac. P.S. I am looking for acupuncturist to work for me in other clinics or hospital settings. Chinese Medicine dmvitello Wed, 29 Apr 2009 22:03:28 +0000 MET Don and CHA members, Are many of you using MET for pain management? Can you offer some resources for learning more about MET... Books, seminars, people to look up on the web? Thanks for any help with this. Sincerely, David Vitello Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 30, 2009 Report Share Posted April 30, 2009 Have you looked at the Alpha Stim MET device? Seems less time-intensive than Starwynn's. Don't have clinical experience for you, only something I recently started looking at for a specific patient as it was suggested by another thread when I was looking for additional help w/ an anxiety case. http://www.alpha-stim.com/ J On Wed, Apr 29, 2009 at 3:03 PM, dmvitello01 <dmvitello wrote: > Don and CHA members, > > Are many of you using MET for pain management? > > Can you offer some resources for learning more about MET... > Books, seminars, people to look up on the web? > > Thanks for any help with this. > > Sincerely, > David Vitello > ________ Joy Keller, LAc, Dipl.OM Board Certified in Acupuncture & Oriental Medicine Ramona Acupuncture & Integrative Medicine Clinic Phone: (760) 654-1040 Fax: (760) 654-4019 www.RamonaAcupuncture.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 1, 2009 Report Share Posted May 1, 2009 Alpha stim devices are patch and probe devices but they only have a frequency of 320 htz and that is a BIG limitation. They are also very expensive at $800+. I rent these to patients for self treatment between professional treatments. But you touched on a big reason people don't want to do MET therapy and that is TIME. It takes a lot of time, but the results are almost miraculous. However, most doctors and people in general are just plain lazy. I used to posit this to my students. " What separates the exceptional practitioner from the average practitioner or doctor? The answer is, 'that little something extra.' Extraordinary people work harder and smarter, and it pays off. Just my opinion. Dr. Donald J. Snow., Jr., DAOM, MPH, L.Ac. Chinese Medicine JKellerLAc Thu, 30 Apr 2009 10:36:24 -0700 Re: MET Have you looked at the Alpha Stim MET device? Seems less time-intensive than Starwynn's. Don't have clinical experience for you, only something I recently started looking at for a specific patient as it was suggested by another thread when I was looking for additional help w/ an anxiety case. http://www.alpha-stim.com/ J On Wed, Apr 29, 2009 at 3:03 PM, dmvitello01 <dmvitello wrote: > Don and CHA members, > > Are many of you using MET for pain management? > > Can you offer some resources for learning more about MET... > Books, seminars, people to look up on the web? > > Thanks for any help with this. > > Sincerely, > David Vitello > ________ Joy Keller, LAc, Dipl.OM Board Certified in Acupuncture & Oriental Medicine Ramona Acupuncture & Integrative Medicine Clinic Phone: (760) 654-1040 Fax: (760) 654-4019 www.RamonaAcupuncture.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 1, 2009 Report Share Posted May 1, 2009 Donald What distinguishes the Alpha Stim from other microcurrent devices. Why is it so expensive. What are it's best appications? I very much appreciate your comments on this thread. Thank You. Turiya Hill, L.Ac. - Donald Snow Chinese Traditional Medicine Friday, May 01, 2009 7:22 AM RE: MET Alpha stim devices are patch and probe devices but they only have a frequency of 320 htz and that is a BIG limitation. They are also very expensive at $800+. I rent these to patients for self treatment between professional treatments. But you touched on a big reason people don't want to do MET therapy and that is TIME. It takes a lot of time, but the results are almost miraculous. However, most doctors and people in general are just plain lazy. I used to posit this to my students. " What separates the exceptional practitioner from the average practitioner or doctor? The answer is, 'that little something extra.' Extraordinary people work harder and smarter, and it pays off. Just my opinion. Dr. Donald J. Snow., Jr., DAOM, MPH, L.Ac. Chinese Medicine JKellerLAc Thu, 30 Apr 2009 10:36:24 -0700 Re: MET Have you looked at the Alpha Stim MET device? Seems less time-intensive than Starwynn's. Don't have clinical experience for you, only something I recently started looking at for a specific patient as it was suggested by another thread when I was looking for additional help w/ an anxiety case. http://www.alpha-stim.com/ J On Wed, Apr 29, 2009 at 3:03 PM, dmvitello01 <dmvitello wrote: > Don and CHA members, > > Are many of you using MET for pain management? > > Can you offer some resources for learning more about MET... > Books, seminars, people to look up on the web? > > Thanks for any help with this. > > Sincerely, > David Vitello > ________ Joy Keller, LAc, Dipl.OM Board Certified in Acupuncture & Oriental Medicine Ramona Acupuncture & Integrative Medicine Clinic Phone: (760) 654-1040 Fax: (760) 654-4019 www.RamonaAcupuncture.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 1, 2009 Report Share Posted May 1, 2009 Other met pocker devices have the following problems: 1. The channels " bleed " into one another. This means that when you are adjusting the channel that you are working with, the other channel on the stim device gets too big and burns the patient. Esp. when using with needles. 2. The other devices can't even go up to 320 hertz. Therefore, when using patches or probes, pain relief is nominal. Patients pay us for the results they do not get with allopathy and chiro, if you do not produce " big " results, why should they come to you and get poked. Chiro is more of a massage to them and allopathy is convenient. Therefore, we, as a group, MUST produce. If we do this and do it in a big way, then we CAN change the face of medicine as it is practiced today. Our patients get better, and often they get permanently better. No one else can offer patients this service but us. If that were not so, our clinics would be empty. Mine is far from empty. Dr. Don Snow Chinese Medicine turiya Fri, 1 May 2009 07:49:45 -0700 Re: MET Donald What distinguishes the Alpha Stim from other microcurrent devices. Why is it so expensive. What are it's best appications? I very much appreciate your comments on this thread. Thank You. Turiya Hill, L.Ac. - Donald Snow Chinese Traditional Medicine Friday, May 01, 2009 7:22 AM RE: MET Alpha stim devices are patch and probe devices but they only have a frequency of 320 htz and that is a BIG limitation. They are also very expensive at $800+. I rent these to patients for self treatment between professional treatments. But you touched on a big reason people don't want to do MET therapy and that is TIME. It takes a lot of time, but the results are almost miraculous. However, most doctors and people in general are just plain lazy. I used to posit this to my students. " What separates the exceptional practitioner from the average practitioner or doctor? The answer is, 'that little something extra.' Extraordinary people work harder and smarter, and it pays off. Just my opinion. Dr. Donald J. Snow., Jr., DAOM, MPH, L.Ac. Chinese Medicine JKellerLAc Thu, 30 Apr 2009 10:36:24 -0700 Re: MET Have you looked at the Alpha Stim MET device? Seems less time-intensive than Starwynn's. Don't have clinical experience for you, only something I recently started looking at for a specific patient as it was suggested by another thread when I was looking for additional help w/ an anxiety case. http://www.alpha-stim.com/ J On Wed, Apr 29, 2009 at 3:03 PM, dmvitello01 <dmvitello wrote: > Don and CHA members, > > Are many of you using MET for pain management? > > Can you offer some resources for learning more about MET... > Books, seminars, people to look up on the web? > > Thanks for any help with this. > > Sincerely, > David Vitello > ________ Joy Keller, LAc, Dipl.OM Board Certified in Acupuncture & Oriental Medicine Ramona Acupuncture & Integrative Medicine Clinic Phone: (760) 654-1040 Fax: (760) 654-4019 www.RamonaAcupuncture.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 1, 2009 Report Share Posted May 1, 2009 ok, let me see if I get this right, Don, you are saying the difference between Alpha Stim and other microcurrent devices, such as Starwynn's is the hertz? AS goes up to 320 and Starwynn goes above it - for 10x the price??? We are looking at 8000 vs 800, right? And you are saying you need more than 320 in order to get good results? I did use an earlier/older version of the Alpha Stim years ago, and found that it was bleeding, just as Don suggests. I contacted the company and they said they remedied the problem, however, they did not offer to replace my unit, which I feel they should have because they admitted that it was a manufacturing defect. I also found, just as Don says, that you had to use it constantly. I stopped believing in microcurrent technology, but I am ready to take another look. My position is this: I take in about 200 new clients a year, at least 50 % of my clients have excellent results without any adjuncts, a substantial additional percentage gets better without reaching the full treatment goals. If I buy expensive technology, how many additional clients would be served well by this? 10% maybe 20%; , we are looking at only about 20plus clients all year, realistically I am not sure it is going to make a huge difference to either my income or my clinic as a whole. However, I agree with with Don that it's worth staying in touch with innovations in the field and do the best. I am thinking about getting an Acuscen, a Scenar device, that goes new for about $2000; the company offers a 6 months satisfaction guarantee. If the product doesn't perform as I expect it, I can always return it an I am out only about $150 in restocking and shipping fees. Regards, Angela Pfaffenberger, Ph.D. angelapfa www.InnerhealthSalem.com Phone: 503 364 3022 - Donald Snow Chinese Traditional Medicine Friday, May 01, 2009 8:02 AM RE: MET Other met pocker devices have the following problems: 1. The channels " bleed " into one another. This means that when you are adjusting the channel that you are working with, the other channel on the stim device gets too big and burns the patient. Esp. when using with needles. 2. The other devices can't even go up to 320 hertz. Therefore, when using patches or probes, pain relief is nominal. Patients pay us for the results they do not get with allopathy and chiro, if you do not produce " big " results, why should they come to you and get poked. Chiro is more of a massage to them and allopathy is convenient. Therefore, we, as a group, MUST produce. If we do this and do it in a big way, then we CAN change the face of medicine as it is practiced today. Our patients get better, and often they get permanently better. No one else can offer patients this service but us. If that were not so, our clinics would be empty. Mine is far from empty. Dr. Don Snow Chinese Medicine turiya Fri, 1 May 2009 07:49:45 -0700 Re: MET Donald What distinguishes the Alpha Stim from other microcurrent devices. Why is it so expensive. What are it's best appications? I very much appreciate your comments on this thread. Thank You. Turiya Hill, L.Ac. - Donald Snow Chinese Traditional Medicine Friday, May 01, 2009 7:22 AM RE: MET Alpha stim devices are patch and probe devices but they only have a frequency of 320 htz and that is a BIG limitation. They are also very expensive at $800+. I rent these to patients for self treatment between professional treatments. But you touched on a big reason people don't want to do MET therapy and that is TIME. It takes a lot of time, but the results are almost miraculous. However, most doctors and people in general are just plain lazy. I used to posit this to my students. " What separates the exceptional practitioner from the average practitioner or doctor? The answer is, 'that little something extra.' Extraordinary people work harder and smarter, and it pays off. Just my opinion. Dr. Donald J. Snow., Jr., DAOM, MPH, L.Ac. Chinese Medicine JKellerLAc Thu, 30 Apr 2009 10:36:24 -0700 Re: MET Have you looked at the Alpha Stim MET device? Seems less time-intensive than Starwynn's. Don't have clinical experience for you, only something I recently started looking at for a specific patient as it was suggested by another thread when I was looking for additional help w/ an anxiety case. http://www.alpha-stim.com/ J On Wed, Apr 29, 2009 at 3:03 PM, dmvitello01 <dmvitello wrote: > Don and CHA members, > > Are many of you using MET for pain management? > > Can you offer some resources for learning more about MET... > Books, seminars, people to look up on the web? > > Thanks for any help with this. > > Sincerely, > David Vitello > ________ Joy Keller, LAc, Dipl.OM Board Certified in Acupuncture & Oriental Medicine Ramona Acupuncture & Integrative Medicine Clinic Phone: (760) 654-1040 Fax: (760) 654-4019 www.RamonaAcupuncture.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 3, 2009 Report Share Posted May 3, 2009 You, Miss Angela, are not thinking outside the box. What makes you think you are always going to have just the number of patients you now have? What makes you think your income per patient will stay the same. How can you expect a different outcome if you continue doing the same thing and thinking the same way? Again my question is: " What is the difference from and extraordinary practitioner and an ordinary one? " Cost is irrelevant if you can invision the true potential. You need to study and learn exactly what this equipment can do for you and your patients. Dr. Don J. Snow, DAOM, MPH, L.Ac. Chinese Medicine angelapfa Fri, 1 May 2009 09:38:20 -0700 Re: MET ok, let me see if I get this right, Don, you are saying the difference between Alpha Stim and other microcurrent devices, such as Starwynn's is the hertz? AS goes up to 320 and Starwynn goes above it - for 10x the price??? We are looking at 8000 vs 800, right? And you are saying you need more than 320 in order to get good results? I did use an earlier/older version of the Alpha Stim years ago, and found that it was bleeding, just as Don suggests. I contacted the company and they said they remedied the problem, however, they did not offer to replace my unit, which I feel they should have because they admitted that it was a manufacturing defect. I also found, just as Don says, that you had to use it constantly. I stopped believing in microcurrent technology, but I am ready to take another look. My position is this: I take in about 200 new clients a year, at least 50 % of my clients have excellent results without any adjuncts, a substantial additional percentage gets better without reaching the full treatment goals. If I buy expensive technology, how many additional clients would be served well by this? 10% maybe 20%; , we are looking at only about 20plus clients all year, realistically I am not sure it is going to make a huge difference to either my income or my clinic as a whole. However, I agree with with Don that it's worth staying in touch with innovations in the field and do the best. I am thinking about getting an Acuscen, a Scenar device, that goes new for about $2000; the company offers a 6 months satisfaction guarantee. If the product doesn't perform as I expect it, I can always return it an I am out only about $150 in restocking and shipping fees. Regards, Angela Pfaffenberger, Ph.D. angelapfa www.InnerhealthSalem.com Phone: 503 364 3022 - Donald Snow Chinese Traditional Medicine Friday, May 01, 2009 8:02 AM RE: MET Other met pocker devices have the following problems: 1. The channels " bleed " into one another. This means that when you are adjusting the channel that you are working with, the other channel on the stim device gets too big and burns the patient. Esp. when using with needles. 2. The other devices can't even go up to 320 hertz. Therefore, when using patches or probes, pain relief is nominal. Patients pay us for the results they do not get with allopathy and chiro, if you do not produce " big " results, why should they come to you and get poked. Chiro is more of a massage to them and allopathy is convenient. Therefore, we, as a group, MUST produce. If we do this and do it in a big way, then we CAN change the face of medicine as it is practiced today. Our patients get better, and often they get permanently better. No one else can offer patients this service but us. If that were not so, our clinics would be empty. Mine is far from empty. Dr. Don Snow Chinese Medicine turiya Fri, 1 May 2009 07:49:45 -0700 Re: MET Donald What distinguishes the Alpha Stim from other microcurrent devices. Why is it so expensive. What are it's best appications? I very much appreciate your comments on this thread. Thank You. Turiya Hill, L.Ac. - Donald Snow Chinese Traditional Medicine Friday, May 01, 2009 7:22 AM RE: MET Alpha stim devices are patch and probe devices but they only have a frequency of 320 htz and that is a BIG limitation. They are also very expensive at $800+. I rent these to patients for self treatment between professional treatments. But you touched on a big reason people don't want to do MET therapy and that is TIME. It takes a lot of time, but the results are almost miraculous. However, most doctors and people in general are just plain lazy. I used to posit this to my students. " What separates the exceptional practitioner from the average practitioner or doctor? The answer is, 'that little something extra.' Extraordinary people work harder and smarter, and it pays off. Just my opinion. Dr. Donald J. Snow., Jr., DAOM, MPH, L.Ac. Chinese Medicine JKellerLAc Thu, 30 Apr 2009 10:36:24 -0700 Re: MET Have you looked at the Alpha Stim MET device? Seems less time-intensive than Starwynn's. Don't have clinical experience for you, only something I recently started looking at for a specific patient as it was suggested by another thread when I was looking for additional help w/ an anxiety case. http://www.alpha-stim.com/ J On Wed, Apr 29, 2009 at 3:03 PM, dmvitello01 <dmvitello wrote: > Don and CHA members, > > Are many of you using MET for pain management? > > Can you offer some resources for learning more about MET... > Books, seminars, people to look up on the web? > > Thanks for any help with this. > > Sincerely, > David Vitello > ________ Joy Keller, LAc, Dipl.OM Board Certified in Acupuncture & Oriental Medicine Ramona Acupuncture & Integrative Medicine Clinic Phone: (760) 654-1040 Fax: (760) 654-4019 www.RamonaAcupuncture.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 4, 2009 Report Share Posted May 4, 2009 Chinese Medicine , Donald Snow <don83407 wrote: " Again my question is: " What is the difference from and extraordinary practitioner and an ordinary one? " Veering off topic a little -with respect to the equipment being discussed here - yet the question is a good one. One answer might be " leaving our egos at home " Margi http://margihealing.wordpress.com/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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