Preservatives/Environmental Poisons

[Guest guest]

Thanks for the further emails... I feel like there's been some

misreading on both our parts, but I'm more interested in this:

 

>I repeat as far as I .. and others .. know .. there has not yet been

>found a SAFE, EFFECTIVE NATURAL preservative .. I wish this were not the

>case .. but it is the case. :-(

 

I'm not sure what your definitions of " safe " and " effective " are, but

whatever they are, it sounds like there are synthetic preservatives

that fit them? I'm curious to know what they are.

 

-Josh

[Guest guest]

Hey C-M,

 

You're my buddy .. but I don't have to agree your position because of

that .. same as I disagree with some positions Martin takes. ;-)

 

> Hiya Butch,

> About a natural preservative.

> It's there. The poplar balsam tree's young buds in spring, sticky buds,

> to be gathered in early spring.

 

" It's there " does not meet the parameters of what we are searching for.

The preservative must be SAFE, EFFECTIVE and NATURAL .. and proven to

be so by more than word of mouth or personal belief.

 

> I do tincture them in alcohol and add them to some things. Especially to

> top off infused oils. It would be easy to use this in lotions, etc.

 

Good it is you use it, etc., and maybe if would be easy to use it with

lotions, etc., but the same parameters apply .. as as best as I can see

at this point all of the requirements have not been met.

 

> Can't remember the botanical name of the poplar balsam

 

There are a few Botanical Names that might be applicable .. and as best

as I can determine from my readings they all can cause dermatitis and

are potential sensitizers.

 

> but it grows near water, very much at home in the rocky shores of

> Lake Michigan.

 

Then its not rare .. and if it is SAFE, EFFECTIVE and NATURAL as a

preservative we must assume that it has been tested by some company

sometime in the past .. or it is a gold mine awaiting discovery.

 

> I was taught about the poplar balsam by my native friends who topped

> off jars with bear grease with it, to keep it from going bad.

 

Topping off jars with bear grease unto itself preserves in that it keep

out air .. this has long been used by American Indians .. even the gut

bags of pemmican were stoppered with bear grease.

 

> As to Yushenko and his dioxin poisoning. I hope he has no more children

> and bet that he will come down with some form or cancer in about 10-15

> years if not earlier. Most cancers that come from environmental

> poisoning show up first in the unborn, than children, takes awhile to

> hit the adults.

 

Mayhaps .. for sure he looks like a monster now .. I found a couple of

before and after photos of his face.

 

> I have been involved in fighting our neighborhood nuclear plant,

> because insurance companies had red flags about certain clusters of

> cancer in our area, related to low emissions of radioactive substances.

 

So .. we might assume that burning fossil fuels is a safer means of

obtaining energy than is nuclear energy .. if this is true then its but

one more of the many reasons we can count on our grand kids .. and maybe

their grand kids .. continuing to depend on fossil fuel.

 

> Thyroid cancers, spina bifida, low birthweight, miscarriages.

 

Bad news for sure .. and it would make one wonder for sure.

 

> Dr. Rosalie Bertell (a nun) and expert on the low emissions of nuclear

> plants and their effect on the health of people was hired by the

> American Cancer Society to come up with a study. Her findings showed

> a remarkable increase in the cancers, etc. that I just mentioned

> around old nuclear facilities. Guess what? The American Cancer Society

> did not like her findings and cancelled her work! and the smear campaign

> began...

> She is beyond reproach and is very sweet old lady, I am proud to say

> that I have met her and that she helped me in the 15 years, I fought for

> our old Nuke to shape up with the NRC.

 

Dr. Rosalie Bertell is one of the most controversial figures around ..

she was labeled the " Anti-Nuclear Nun " long ago. Whether she is right

or wrong I can't say .. except nobody is right on everything and the

more we devote ourselves to a cause the easier it is for us to loose

sight of the trees when we focus all our attention on the forest.

 

> The Machiavellis where much cleverer than the old Russkies in matters of

> poisoning. How stupid...Doubt this happened with Putin's knowledge, too

> crude of a plot.

 

I don't agree there either .. but then I might have done a bit more

research on Putin than some folks .. and maybe I pay a bit more

attention to the day to day events in this part of the world.

 

> Since NY Commissioner Kerick is out of a job, they should send him to

> investigate.

 

He is not that good an investigator .. that's why they kicked his butt

out of Saudi long ago .. I know a bit about him too. ;-)

 

> Maybe not, he can make more millions selling Tasers to the US government.

 

Nothing wrong with that .. except its not really accurate. He no more

sells Tasers to the US government than I sell Bubble Gum. I own stocks

in a bubble gum company and Kerick owns stocks in Taser .. and all the

folks on this list who have Mutual Funds also own stocks in things that

they are not selling. ;-)

 

In response to Sandra .. you wrote:

 

> Sandra,

> Benzoine is a known cancer causing risk.

 

Probably .. maybe .. most likely .. but not necessarily. Martin wrote

something on that .. http://www.aromamedical.com/articles/benzoin.html

 

> Balsam Poplar is a natural product that mimicks benzoin. (So it was

> explained to me)

 

How does it mimic benzoin? Not saying I disagree .. I just don't know.

 

> I have a small amount of balsam poplar tincture that I am willing to

> part with to someone who seriously want's to experiment.

> C-M

 

No need to experiment if it already works. ;-) Seriously, in order

for someone to experiment with anything one would need to set up firm

parameters for the experiment .. otherwise the results would be useless.

Determining if something works or not would require periodic lab tests

to determine the growth rate of bacterial and other nasties .. and I'm

talking more than one test.

 

But .. if Balsam Poplar works then it might be worth it as one could

make a fortune from the discovery.

 

> C-M

 

I repeat as far as I .. and others .. know .. there has not yet been

found a SAFE, EFFECTIVE NATURAL preservative .. I wish this were not the

case .. but it is the case. :-(

 

Y'all keep smiling. :-) Butch http://www.AV-AT.com

[Guest guest]

Butch Owen wrote:

> Hey C-M,

>

> You're my buddy .. but I don't have to agree your position because of

> that .. same as I disagree with some positions Martin takes. ;-)

>

> " It's there " does not meet the parameters of what we are searching for.

> The preservative must be SAFE, EFFECTIVE and NATURAL .. and proven to

> be so by more than word of mouth or personal belief.

 

> Y'all keep smiling. :-) Butch http://www.AV-AT.com

 

 

 

This is for Butch and everyone else.

 

Found this company --never ordered anything from them **YET!** I am

going to check out their samples soon though...

 

I am interested in others evaluation of their paraben-free

preservative system.

 

Here is their home page http://www.tclaboratories.com/

 

 

and here is the web page that lists their paraben-free system....

 

 

aarrggghh... don't know if it is my computer or their web site is

funky... but I can't get to the page. Just click on any lotion-type

product. Then, there in the product description you will see " your

choice of paraben or paraben-free system " More Info " . Just click on

that and the 2 systems are listed out.

 

Sure would save lots of time and money using them (if their quality is

up to my standards). Sounds pretty promising though so far. Have to

do some research on their ingredients.

 

Andrea

[Guest guest]

Hi Andrea,

I've ordered from them and their customer service is pathetic. I tried for three

months to get them to use a credit to my

account (a credit I got due to product failure) and they never did get it right.

HTH,

Serra

 

 

Andrea wrote:

 

> This is for Butch and everyone else.

>

> Found this company --never ordered anything from them **YET!** I am

> going to check out their samples soon though...

>

> I am interested in others evaluation of their paraben-free

> preservative system.

>

> Here is their home page http://www.tclaboratories.com/

>

> and here is the web page that lists their paraben-free system....

>

> aarrggghh... don't know if it is my computer or their web site is

> funky... but I can't get to the page. Just click on any lotion-type

> product. Then, there in the product description you will see " your

> choice of paraben or paraben-free system " More Info " . Just click on

> that and the 2 systems are listed out.

>

> Sure would save lots of time and money using them (if their quality is

> up to my standards). Sounds pretty promising though so far. Have to

> do some research on their ingredients.

>

> Andrea

>

 

--

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[Guest guest]

>

> Andrea [itsmedrea1]

 

> Found this company --never ordered anything from them **YET!** I am

> going to check out their samples soon though...

> I am interested in others evaluation of their paraben-free

> preservative system.

> Here is their home page http://www.tclaboratories.com/

<snipped> Andrea

 

 

 

Hi Andrea,

 

It appears the non paraben preservation choice uses potassium sorbate as

the " active " preservative. That is what several lotion makers I know are

using these days, and I have used it too in a few custom requested

formulas that contain water (I do not at the moment widely market any of

my handmade water containing concoctions other than liquid soap).

 

Here is what the their site says

 

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

 

 

Non-Paraben Preservative System consists of the following:

 

 

* Sodium Hydroxymethylgycinate, which is derived from glycine ( a

naturally occurring non-essential amino acid)

 

* Potassium Sorbate, the potassium salt of sorbic acid (a

naturally occurring organic acid that has been used extensively as a

fungistatic agent for foods)

 

* Ascorbyl Palmitate (Vitamin C) is used as a " natural

preservative enhancer " . Natural Antioxidant.

 

* Tocopherol (Vitamin E) is used as a " natural preservative

enhancer " . Natural Antioxidant.

 

* Grapefruit Seed Extract GSE is used as a " natural preservative

enhancer " . Mold Inhibitor.

 

 

Shelf Life: 12 months

 

 

About " All-Natural " Preservatives

(a.k.a " Preservative-Free " )

 

 

 

 

Many natural additives and ingredients offer some preservative-type

properties. We like to consider them " natural preservative enhancers " .

To-date, there are no commonly accepted, effective, " natural "

preservatives available... At least none that do not effect the scent,

consistency or color of your product.

 

On a hopeful note, some Fragrance Houses are on the verge of great new

discoveries... TC Labs waits patiently for word from these companies on

new breakthroughs and will let you know the minute any new discovery is

proven as an all-natural preservative alternative.

In response to the inquiries on " How do some companies preserve their

product with Vitamins and Grapefruit Seed Extract? " ... That is simple,

very clever and certainly an option for you...

Those products are packaged and distributed under extremely controlled

conditions.

 

 

The first, being the products packaging. You will notice that most of

the products offered are packaged in non-transparent containers with a

pump dispensing cap, or some sort of dispensing top with a very small

opening for product to be extracted. This helps to prevent contamination

of the product when being used by the consumer.

 

 

Second, you will notice that most of the products offered are NOT oil in

water / water in oil emulsions.

 

 

Finally, you will notice that preservative-free products are distributed

under very controlled situations. Companies manufacturing these types of

product tend to retail the products themselves as opposed to wholesaling

them. This is because the product needs to be controlled and the shelf

life cannot accommodate extended shelf storage.

 

 

 

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

 

 

 

*Smile*

Chris (list mom - who has to get off the computer NOW and get back to

filling those holiday orders! SUPER CRUNCH TIME is here ;-p )

 

http://www.alittleolfactory.com

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Oh, and I left out probably THE most important thing their web site

says!

 

" The consequences of NOT properly preserving your skin care products can

be

devastating to your customer, your clients, your company, and your

conscience. "

 

 

*Smile*

Chris (list mom)

 

http://www.alittleolfactory.com

 

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

 

http://www.tclaboratories.com/

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

So... what all are we looking for here, especially water & oil

mixes... just no growth of bacteria, fungus, or mold, and no

rancidity? Or are there other things preservatives are doing?

 

-Josh

[Guest guest]

That's a lot!! And crucial stuff too. The last thing we want to do is put a

culture of some horrible strain of bacteria on our skin ... or some oxidised

materials which have been transformed into dangerous chemical components ...

Jane

-

Joshua Alexander

Tuesday, December 14, 2004 3:03 PM

RE: Re: Preservatives/Environmental Poisons

 

 

So... what all are we looking for here, especially water & oil

mixes... just no growth of bacteria, fungus, or mold, and no

rancidity? Or are there other things preservatives are doing?

 

-Josh

 

 

Step By Step Instructions On Making Rose Petal Preserves:

http://www.av-at.com/stuff/rosejam.html

 

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