Safe Dilution for Blends ** Was: Pricing/Commission Guidelines

[Guest guest]

Thank you to all who have replied. I would like to clarify a few

things!

 

I used to work in a salon and we were paid " commission " on the retail

products that we sold. So, I was using the jargon I was familiar

with (instead of say, a wholesale price.) So, what I meant was, what

would be a fair mark-down from my retail price to sell to the salon

owner as a " trade-discount " ? I, personally, want to refrain from

selling products at " wholesale " , I want to stick to the " trade

discount " verbage. I will leave the " wholesaling " to the good people

like Butch!

 

I guess my original post was a little mis-leading (it was late!)

about what I meant by " custom. " Yes, I have my own " house " blends

or " synergies " if you wish, that I have already established pricing.

What I meant was, what is industry standard to charge to

creating " custom to a particular therapist " blends? I have several

massage therapists that I am working with to create blends for them

to use in their massage practices that are " unique " to them. So, the

blends will be used on more than one client, but will be unique to

that particular therapist.

 

And, MOST IMPORTANTLY:

 

I totally agree with the safety issues and I am ADAMANT about

education! I do list safety precautions on my labels, and am a

stickler to the clinically proven Aromatherapy practices. I NEVER

claim a product will do " so and such " based on the whims of the

latest " aromatherapy novel! " All of the blends I have created are

based on clinical evidence (NOT to my blend, but to the individual

oils clinically proven status as, an example, an anti-bacterial

agent,) BUT, I do have a few blends where the blend itself has been

clinically proven to produce a certain result!

 

I make it a point to educate as many people as I can about the safe

use of eo's. I don't care if they purchase my products or not, I

still try to educate them on safety issues! I hold educational

seminars based on the research I have done, to try and get the truth

out on the safe use of eo's. I debunk as many of the myths and false

practices that I can and can honestly say that I have interjected on

many discussions on applications of eo's, and have had several people

change their practices from using eo's in a totally harmfull way

(i.e. using eo's NEAT and SHUDDER-using RDT!) and that they are now

telling others the truth!

 

The mantra of my business is- A RESPONSIBLE APPROACH to HEALTH and

NUTRITION, and that is what I teach. I do what I can to put the

appropriate warnings on my lables, such as " not for topical use "

or " not for ingestion, " but I firmly believe that it is up to an

INDIVIDUAL to take PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY for what they

ingest/topically apply or inhale! If I had to be held accountable

for each and every persons use of each and every eo or blend or

herbal product that I sell, then, I might as well put out a

permanent Closed for Business sign!

 

I just wanted to let ya'll know that I appreciate your help and

advise, and that I do my best to promulgate the safe use of eo's and

herbs! Warm regards and continue to be,

 

Lori

>

[Guest guest]

Lori, this is how I figure my prices. Add all the ingredients including the

packaging and labeling. Figure how long it takes me to make the batch,

including bottling, labeling, possibly delivering if that is going to be a

necessity. Add in pay for the time based on professional level. ($30/hr,

$60/hr - whatever you feel is right). Divide by the number of bottles you

have produced. That is my base that I never sell under. So if a batch of 50

bottles costs me $163, that's $3.25 each. That is my never-sell-for-less

price. Double it and add some for slop, loss and breakage to get your retail

price. If they want to be dealers, they need to buy a set number of bottles

(25 in my case) to get a 20% to 25% discount. If they want to be

distributors, they need to buy a substantially larger number (144) of

bottles to get a 40% to 50% discount. That leaves me with a built in profit

margin and gives me room to sell at discount to dealers and distributors. It

also gives me room to give a few free samples.

I also check on the internet to make sure I am within accepted pricing. And

always, always, always make sure to add all costs. I use high end pricing if

there is a variable price. Hope this helps.

Gayla Roberts

Always Enough Ranch

Acampo, California

Check out our SALE PAGE at

www.bouncinghoofs.com/alwaysenoughhobbysale.html

A day without Bill Barnhill is like a day without sunshine!

goatclearing

http://coloredboers.home.att.net/always.html

No one ever gets far unless he accomplishes the impossible at least once a

day. Elbert Hubbard

 

 

 

Dial Broadband has arrived Nationwide! Up to 5 times faster than traditional

dialup connections from $13.33/month! See the demo for yourself at <a

href= " http://www.BigValley.net " >www.BigValley.net</a>

[Guest guest]

, " Gayla Roberts "

<goatclearing@b...> wrote:

>

> Lori, this is how I figure my prices. Add all the ingredients

including the

> packaging and labeling. Figure how long it takes me to make the

batch,

> including bottling, labeling, possibly delivering if that is going to

be a

> necessity. Add in pay for the time based on professional level.

($30/hr,

> $60/hr - whatever you feel is right). Divide by the number of bottles

you

> have produced. That is my base that I never sell under.

 

THANKS GAYLA! You have been most helpful and I appreciate the time it

took for you to respond! Clear, concise and to the point...my kinda

woman! Thanks again and continue to be!

 

Lori

[Guest guest]

My pleasure. A background in accounting helps! <S>

Gayla Roberts

Always Enough Ranch

Acampo, California

Check out our SALE PAGE at

www.bouncinghoofs.com/alwaysenoughhobbysale.html

A day without Bill Barnhill is like a day without sunshine!

goatclearing

http://coloredboers.home.att.net/always.html

No one ever gets far unless he accomplishes the impossible at least once a

day. Elbert Hubbard

 

 

 

Dial Broadband has arrived Nationwide! Up to 5 times faster than traditional

dialup connections from $13.33/month! See the demo for yourself at <a

href= " http://www.BigValley.net " >www.BigValley.net</a>

[Guest guest]

Hey y'all, ;-)

 

> Hi there Butch... and other good folks ;-)

 

(Snipped a bunch)

 

> Yes, I think with any undiluted blend or a single oil that leaves our

> place of business and makes it into the hands of someone else we have

> to assume that they do not know what is safe use and at least supply

> the most basic of safety warnings. We can't easily print all they need

> to know on a label. I use my labels and my website to try to warn and

> help people to use what they purchase safely and effectively. Sure,

> dermal use neat is the concern, but honestly we both know that people

> will do all kinds of things with essential oils assuming because they

> are " natural " that they are also " safe " . I still see this far too

> often.

 

Yep .. because they read it in the novels and hear it from the con

artists (like YL) who just want to sell more oils.

 

> We are still certainly going to sell undiluted singles and blends for

> people to use properly diluted (dermal use) or undiluted in a diffuser

> or sniffed. I'm sure we all would like to feel we have done all we can

> to discourage mishandling/use of these materials.

 

Yep.

 

>> If the above is all about sniffing or diffusing then there are no

>> potential problems.

>>

>> I don't deal with blends .. I offer only single source oils. On each

>> bottle it tells the buyer to properly dilute before use .. that's the

>> best I can do unless I want to quote the stats from the Safety Manual

>> " Plant Aromatics " http://www.av-at.com/plantaromaticsavnp.html on

>> each label.

>

> True. True. This is an absolute " must have " . I would also suggest

> Sylla's two volumes.

 

Which can be seen at http://www.av-at.com/manual01.html

 

> I think you also carry it- and maybe Marge does also.

 

I do .. she might still carry it .. I'm not sure.

 

>> If I did that it would be a difficult task but not an impossible

>> one. However .. when one mixes 5-6 EO neat in a blend they are making

>> it real difficult for the buyer to know the safe dilution. The safe

>> dilution will not necessarily be the lowest dilution percentage of the

>> most potent EO .. because there is a cumulative effect when we blend

>> together EO with similar chemical components.

>

> It's true. An advantage of selling an undiluted single or blend

> (synergy) to someone who is has the proper information is that they can

> dilute appropriately for their needs. They may add 4 drops of Lavender

> to their mineral salts and add to a bath for their 6 yr old and later

> on have a Lavender bath themselves mixing twice that amount into the

> same salts and water. Or they may want to use the Lavender neat in

> their diffuser or sniff from the bottle. An undiluted bottle is

> flexible and safe in the hands of someone who has sufficient knowledge

> (and reliable safety references).

 

True it is .. and they should ensure they have the correct safety

references .. meaning .. those that are actually referenced. ;-)

 

>> I can't offer a simple solution to this potential problem .. and maybe

>> the problem is not one we should dwell on too much anyway because I'm

>> not hearing much about this being a problem. To completely CYA would

>> require a lot of laborious calculations .. but a simple solution might

>> be to recommend the buyers consider taking responsibility for their own

>> well being by purchasing a copy of Plant Aromatics. Even then, the

>> percentage of various EO would have to be known .. and that would be

>> giving away a trade secret.

>

> Unsafe use of undiluted essential oils does continue to be a risk and

> interestingly enough now that practices like RDT are commonly found in

> spas I have found that I need to take care with the spa owners I work

> with to be sure they have some basic understanding. I also encourage

> hydrosol use in spa applications ;-)

 

Various spas will continue RDT until they are sued .. simple as that.

 

>> Maybe the solution is to recommend the buyer purchase Plant Aromatics,

>> which is a well documented, scientific CYA document on safe dilution

>> of EO .. and then keep the fingers crossed. ;-)

>

> No maybe about it. I recommend it constantly. There is far more to know

> regarding dilutions and applications, but I can't imagine being without

> this book.

 

Matter of fact .. I have worn out two copies already just answering off

line questions .. dog eared they are. ;-)

 

>> Y'all keep smiling. :-) Butch http://www.AV-AT.com

>

> Blessings to you and your lovely bride!

>

> Be well,

> Elizabeth

 

Thankee ma'am .. appreciated it is. :-) Butch

 

> Whole Life Essentials

> Organic & Wild-Crafted Essential Oils & Hydrosols

> Pure Botanical Products for Health, Wellbeing, & Beauty

> Retail, Wholesale, Private Label, & Custom Product Design

> http://www.WholeLifeEssentials.com

[Guest guest]

On Nov 20, 2005, at 9:57 PM, Lori wrote:

 

> So, what I meant was, what

> would be a fair mark-down from my retail price to sell to the salon

> owner as a " trade-discount " ? 

 

It really varies. I can share what I do. I offer a " professional

discount " and bulk sizes to qualified practitioners who are not selling

my products, but who use them in their professional work of 15% off of

the retail on orders that exceed $100. I offer deeper discounts for

people who buy in higher volume. Wholesale is approximately 40% off of

my retail.

 

If you look on my site you'll see a form for professionals and

wholesalers to provide their information and make any inquiries. There

is a log in section for these customers to go to place orders when they

are approved. The log-in page is actually being re-worked right now by

the folks who do my website. I think you can get a sense for it all on

the Wholesale page.

 

 

 

> I, personally, want to refrain from

> selling products at " wholesale " , I want to stick to the " trade

> discount " verbage. 

 

 

Very good ;-) I also refrained from selling wholesale for years. Now it

is appropriate for me.

" Trade " or " professional " or " practitioner " discounts or prices are a

nice option for sure.

 

 

>

> I guess my original post was a little mis-leading (it was late!)

> about what I meant by " custom. "   Yes, I have my own " house " blends

> or " synergies " if you wish, that I have already established pricing. 

> What I meant was, what is industry standard to charge to

> creating " custom to a particular therapist " blends? 

 

Feel free to look at what I charge for custom blends both to

professionals and to individuals.

I have a link to Custom Blends on the links menu on my site. There is

quite a range in pricing depending on the service.

 

Sometimes with a new business that is making a huge investment

initially stocking their shelves with rows of essential oils, lotions,

blends, etc- I will help to get them started in various ways. I am

happy to negotiate fees to help them to be sucessful. It's very

individual. Anyway as you can see my standard custom fee ranges from

$50 for an individual (non professional) blend to $500 for a custom

private label product or natural perfume. Custom perfumes for

individuals are only $200- where for a company that is having me makes

the perfume for them so they sell it the fee is $500. I keep all of the

formulas for the custom products and may require a minimum order to

make the perfumes they order.

 

If a customer has me create a custom natural perfume and then wants a

lotion or body balm also in the same " scent " , I do not charge them the

same price for formulation that I did originally- if I am only

modifying slightly for the new products. I may charge a flat fee or

charge them an hourly rate for my time at that point ($100/hr) to

re-formulate to make it into a new product. They would pay for the

samples or in some cases (depending on expense) I would absorb it.

These are all some of the things you might want to consider.

 

 

> I have several

> massage therapists that I am working with to create blends for them

> to use in their massage practices that are " unique " to them.  So, the

> blends will be used on more than one client, but will be unique to

> that particular therapist.

 

Very nice. I do the same. I make lot's of custom massage oils, facial

and hair oils, balms, lotions, etc for massage therapists to use in

their practices. I am pretty happy to help them by creating blends for

them at a nominal fee as it is very simple for me and makes a big

difference for them. Again, I retain the formula and they re-order from

me. If they want to sell these products with their own label or mine we

discuss that as well- pricing would be different if the product is for

their own use vs they are selling the blends.

 

 

>

> I totally agree with the safety issues and I am ADAMANT about

> education!  I do list safety precautions on my labels, and am a

> stickler to the clinically proven Aromatherapy practices....

 

Good to hear. Always know someone out there thinks it's a real fine

idea to do a Peppermint enema on there grandmother because they feel

divinely inspired. Or to rub Oregano oil on their nipples before they

nurse their baby who has thrush, etc, etc, etc, etc, (sadly).

 

>

> I make it a point to educate as many people as I can about the safe

> use of eo's.  I don't care if they purchase my products or not, I

> still try to educate them on safety issues!  I hold educational

> seminars based on the research I have done, to try and get the truth

> out on the safe use of eo's.  I debunk as many of the myths and false

> practices that I can and can honestly say that I have interjected on

> many discussions on applications of eo's, and have had several people

> change their practices from using eo's in a totally harmfull way

> (i.e. using eo's NEAT and SHUDDER-using RDT!) and that they are now

> telling others the truth! 

 

 

Very good.

 

>

> The mantra of my business is- A RESPONSIBLE APPROACH to HEALTH and

> NUTRITION, and that is what I teach.  I do what I can to put the

> appropriate warnings on my lables, such as " not for topical use "

> or " not for ingestion, " but I firmly believe that it is up to an

> INDIVIDUAL to take PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY for what they

> ingest/topically apply or inhale! 

 

 

It is, but the problem is people are surrounded by misinformation. It's

not easy.

Most people do not think to keep essential oils away from the hands of

children.

 

 

 

> If I had to be held accountable

> for each and every persons use of each and every eo or blend or

> herbal product that I sell, then,  I might as well put out a

> permanent Closed for Business sign!

 

 

It's a fine line for sure, and I don't want to make it seem any more

daunting that it is.

 

 

 

>

> I just wanted to let ya'll know that I appreciate your help and

> advise, and that I do my best to promulgate the safe use of eo's and

> herbs!  Warm regards and continue to be,

 

Best wishes to you and your blossoming ;-) business.

 

 

>

> Lori 

 

Elizabeth

 

Whole Life Essentials

Organic & Wild-Crafted Essential Oils & Hydrosols

Pure Botanical Products for Health, Wellbeing, & Beauty

Retail, Wholesale, Private Label, & Custom Product Design

http://www.WholeLifeEssentials.com

 

 

[Guest guest]

Let this be a heads up for everyone! In my post, I suggested charging what

was a fair price for your time ($30/ hr, $60/hr or whatever was fair). In

Elizabeth's post, she charges $100/hr. So please remember I am older and

remember the beginning of the minimum wage ($1/hr!) and think VERY

conservatively on money. I am way, way out of touch with what some things

really cost. Listen to Elizabeth on charging, not to me! <laughing!>

Gayla Roberts

Always Enough Ranch

Acampo, California

Check out our SALE PAGE at

www.bouncinghoofs.com/alwaysenoughhobbysale.html

A day without Bill Barnhill is like a day without sunshine!

goatclearing

http://coloredboers.home.att.net/always.html

No one ever gets far unless he accomplishes the impossible at least once a

day. Elbert Hubbard

 

 

 

Dial Broadband has arrived Nationwide! Up to 5 times faster than traditional

dialup connections from $13.33/month! See the demo for yourself at <a

href= " http://www.BigValley.net " >www.BigValley.net</a>

[Guest guest]

On Nov 21, 2005, at 12:49 PM, Gayla Roberts wrote:

 

> Let this be a heads up for everyone! In my post, I suggested charging

> what

> was a fair price for your time ($30/ hr, $60/hr or whatever was

> fair). In

> Elizabeth's post, she charges $100/hr. So please remember I am older

> and

> remember the beginning of the minimum wage ($1/hr!) and think VERY

> conservatively on money. I am way, way out of touch with what some

> things

> really cost. Listen to Elizabeth on charging, not to me! <laughing!>

 

Lol... Remember that is a commercial formulation rate- it really does

save my clients money, and it is really not high given what I am

producing for them- which makes them money ;-). My individual consults

are only $50 and most of the time I spend with customers and working on

all of this is never compensated. This business is not about the money,

but we do have to make a living if we are going to be in business after

all ;-)

 

Rates are dependent on many factors. Don't do what is right for me- do

what is right for you.

 

Enjoy!

 

Elizabeth

 

Whole Life Essentials

Organic & Wild-Crafted Essential Oils & Hydrosols

Pure Botanical Products for Health, Wellbeing, & Beauty

Retail, Wholesale, Private Label, & Custom Product Design

http://www.WholeLifeEssentials.com