Guest guest Posted October 11, 2009 Report Share Posted October 11, 2009 Dear group: I don't have the Benksy's materia medica book and wonder if someone are kind enough to send me the common and latin names of about 40 herbals in that book. Please send me an email and I will send you the list. Besides, I wonder if the following herbs/foods are available in herbal stores/supermarket in your country. Dried fig (wu hua guo) Green bean Dried Chinese pear Water chestnut (ma ti) Hericium (hou tou gu) Thanks in advance. Sung Yuk-ming Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 12, 2009 Report Share Posted October 12, 2009 Any good Samaritians? I geniunely need the assistance. Thanks. Sung, Yuk-ming Phd (Chengdu U TCM), BA (Houston), L Ac (Hong Kong) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 12, 2009 Report Share Posted October 12, 2009 I will look up 10 of them for you. Maybe some others will do the same. Send a list to: RA6151 RoseAnne Oct 12, 2009, at 11:38 AM, Yuk Ming wrote: > Any good Samaritians? I geniunely need the assistance. Thanks. > > Sung, Yuk-ming > Phd (Chengdu U TCM), BA (Houston), L Ac (Hong Kong) > > > > > > --- > > Subscribe to the free online journal for TCM at > Times http://www.chinesemedicinetimes.com > > Help build the world's largest online encyclopedia for Chinese > medicine and acupuncture, click, http:// > www.chinesemedicinetimes.com/wiki/CMTpedia > > http:// > and adjust > accordingly. > > Messages are the property of the author. Any duplication outside > the group requires prior permission from the author. > > Please consider the environment and only print this message if > absolutely necessary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 13, 2009 Report Share Posted October 13, 2009 >>>Perhaps you can find the data that you need here? http://alternativehealing.org/chinese_herbs_dictionary.htm there's other sites as well that have both latin and pinyin names of the herbs. I wonder if the following herbs/foods are available in herbal stores/supermarket in your country. Dried fig (wu hua guo) Green bean Dried Chinese pear Water chestnut (ma ti) Hericium (hou tou gu) >>>these are available in Belgium, some in health food stores and others in Chinese supermarkets Tom Verhaeghe Stationsplein 59 8770 Ingelmunster www.chinese-geneeskunde.be _____ Chinese Medicine Chinese Medicine On Behalf Of Yuk Ming zondag 11 oktober 2009 8:19 Chinese Medicine Need some herbal data Dear group: I don't have the Benksy's materia medica book and wonder if someone are kind enough to send me the common and latin names of about 40 herbals in that book. Please send me an email and I will send you the list. Besides, I wonder if the following herbs/foods are available in herbal stores/supermarket in your country. Dried fig (wu hua guo) Green bean Dried Chinese pear Water chestnut (ma ti) Hericium (hou tou gu) Thanks in advance. Sung Yuk-ming Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 14, 2009 Report Share Posted October 14, 2009 Thanks, Tom. The website looks nice and helpful. However, I am concerned about the sources of the data. I prefer to quote the materials from a standardized source in my book. By the way, I am very interested in the fungus, Hou Tou Gu. Is is common to find that in health food store or Chinese supermarket in Europe in general? I met some Portugese practitioners in Chengdu this summer and they said even herbals were hard to find in small towns there. Sung, Yuk-ming Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 14, 2009 Report Share Posted October 14, 2009 Thanks, RoseAnne. List sent. Sung,Yuk-ming Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 16, 2009 Report Share Posted October 16, 2009 With all due respect, why don't you just buy the book? Chinese Medicine , " Yuk Ming " <sxm2649 wrote: > > Thanks, Tom. The website looks nice and helpful. However, I am concerned about the sources of the data. I prefer to quote the materials from a standardized source in my book. > > By the way, I am very interested in the fungus, Hou Tou Gu. Is is common to find that in health food store or Chinese supermarket in Europe in general? I met some Portugese practitioners in Chengdu this summer and they said even herbals were hard to find in small towns there. > > Sung, Yuk-ming > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 16, 2009 Report Share Posted October 16, 2009 Hugo What kind of concerns about the quality of data so SOME have? I have known John since 1997 and have never found his information to be lacking. PLUS.....he is also a Pharm D and a Licensed Pharmacist in California. Richard In a message dated 10/16/09 1:13:31 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, subincor writes: Some have concerns regarding the quality of the data in John Chen's book. Anyway, the website does not make clear that there is a book associated with it. Hugo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 16, 2009 Report Share Posted October 16, 2009 Bill: --Bill- With all due respect, why don't you just buy the book? --- Some have concerns regarding the quality of the data in John Chen's book. Anyway, the website does not make clear that there is a book associated with it. Hugo ________________________________ Hugo Ramiro http://middlemedicine.wordpress.com http://www.middlemedicine.org Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 16, 2009 Report Share Posted October 16, 2009 Although I like John Chen's book and use it frequently as a reference....just not sure that a pharm D makes anyone a better herbalist....actually think it gets in the way more often than not. But does make him more believe/respected by the MDs...sad but likely true. I will use his book to give docs info on herbs/formulas because of that rather than Bensky. Be well, Bob Robert Linde, AP, RH Professional Herbalists Training Program Acupuncture & Herbal Therapies 901 Central Ave St. Petersburg, FL 33705 www.acuherbals.com 727-551-0857 --- On Fri, 10/16/09, acudoc11 <acudoc11 wrote: acudoc11 <acudoc11 Re: Need some herbal data Chinese Medicine Friday, October 16, 2009, 1:47 PM Hugo What kind of concerns about the quality of data so SOME have? I have known John since 1997 and have never found his information to be lacking. PLUS.....he is also a Pharm D and a Licensed Pharmacist in California. Richard In a message dated 10/16/09 1:13:31 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, subincor writes: Some have concerns regarding the quality of the data in John Chen's book. Anyway, the website does not make clear that there is a book associated with it. Hugo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 17, 2009 Report Share Posted October 17, 2009 Dear group: I feel obliged to explain my situation about seeking assistance from our members here. 1 I have finished writing a book about prevention and treatment of cancer with medicinal foods and Qigong and use latin and common names of herbs from Wiseman's dictionary in my English edition. 2 When I was in Chengdu this June and met some TCM practitioner from Florida, she showed me her quick-reference textbook and I found that some herbs I use in my book have different common and latin names. I realize different schools use different textbooks. Therefore, I hope to have another major textbook, Benskhy's book as reference. As I am in Hong Kong and am not accessible to Bensky's book physically or knows anyone who has any herbology textbook, I ask for help here. 3 Some member here suggested a website for me, yingyanghouse.com. It is huge with lots of contents but I could not find out where the sources of herbal come from or have any idea who construct this website. To be honest, I rarely use internet as a study aid. For example, when I decide to translate Jin Gui Yao Lue, I had already collected the reference books of Jin Gui. I have 30 plus of all kinds of Jin Gui books in my collections and I know exactly where my data come from. 4 I did not receive my CM education in states and I am definitely not familiar with the textbooks used there. With due respect, I never come across Chen's herbology book and have definitely no problems with his book. This creates a misunderstanding or misinterpreted when I said I did not know where the sources of those herbal data in the said website came from. I apologize if someone have those misconceptions. 5 This, again, shows the problems of absence of standardized textbooks. All I did is to find out what are best for my laymen readers and the best I can do is to collect all the available sources. Follow up After some good Samartian (thanks Anne) sent me the needed data, I found that there are major differences in the latin names. For example, xuan shen, in one book, it is Scrophulariae Radix, and the other is Radix Scrofularia. Can someone comment on this because I am going to ask here anyway. Sung, Yuk-ming Phd (Chengu U TCM), BA(Houston), L Ac (Hong Kong) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 17, 2009 Report Share Posted October 17, 2009 Richard: A lot of John Chen's information comes from Asian labs. As we all know, asians do not know how to do science right. The work is of poor quality. Certainly not up to our standards here in the shiny west. I'm not sure that being a pharmacist has anything to do with knowing herbs well either. I was told the other day by the pharmacist downstairs to be careful of gan cao because it raises blood pressure. She's nice and means well so I noted it in my mind to enlighten her about it at another time when I was better disposed. Hugo ________________________________ Hugo Ramiro http://middlemedicine.wordpress.com http://www.middlemedicine.org ________________________________ " acudoc11 " <acudoc11 Chinese Medicine Friday, 16 October, 2009 13:47:42 Re: Need some herbal data Hugo What kind of concerns about the quality of data so SOME have? I have known John since 1997 and have never found his information to be lacking. PLUS.....he is also a Pharm D and a Licensed Pharmacist in California. Richard In a message dated 10/16/09 1:13:31 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, subincor writes: Some have concerns regarding the quality of the data in John Chen's book. Anyway, the website does not make clear that there is a book associated with it. Hugo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 17, 2009 Report Share Posted October 17, 2009 Dr Sung, The two names that you gave are of course the same plant, the only difference being spelling, conjunction and word order. The correct version should be either Radix (Rx.) Scrophulariae or Scrophulariae Radix, both are fine. Scrophularia is the plant, we write Scrophulariae as it is the genitivum form (radix of Scrophularia). At least I think that is correct, Regards, Tom. Tom Verhaeghe Stationsplein 59 8770 Ingelmunster www.chinese-geneeskunde.be _____ Chinese Medicine Chinese Medicine On Behalf Of Yuk Ming zaterdag 17 oktober 2009 4:29 Chinese Medicine Re: Need some herbal data I found that there are major differences in the latin names. For example, xuan shen, in one book, it is Scrophulariae Radix, and the other is Radix Scrofularia. Can someone comment on this because I am going to ask here anyway. Sung, Yuk-ming Phd (Chengu U TCM), BA(Houston), L Ac (Hong Kong) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 17, 2009 Report Share Posted October 17, 2009 Gabe Agreed. Hugo......John Chen is not only a PharmD and a RPh but more relevantly a Chinese materia medica herbalist. He has knowledge AND experience in BOTH worlds. And as I recall he worked in pharmaceutical manufacturing along the way. Richard In a message dated 10/17/09 7:37:13 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, fuentes120 writes: To just say Asians can't do science right is just ridiculous, is like saying westerners can't do Chinese medicine right. Some of the best research in the world comes out of countries like Japan, Taiwan, and Korea. There are some problems with China's research standards, but I would not include the whole of Asia. Gabe Fuentes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 17, 2009 Report Share Posted October 17, 2009 As we all know, asians do not know how to do science right. The work is of poor quality. Certainly not up to our standards here in the shiny west. To just say Asians can't do science right is just ridiculous, is like saying westerners can't do Chinese medicine right. Some of the best research in the world comes out of countries like Japan, Taiwan, and Korea. There are some problems with China's research standards, but I would not include the whole of Asia. Gabe Fuentes --- On Fri, 10/16/09, Hugo Ramiro <subincor wrote: Hugo Ramiro <subincor Re: Need some herbal data Chinese Medicine Friday, October 16, 2009, 11:50 PM Richard: A lot of John Chen's information comes from Asian labs. As we all know, asians do not know how to do science right. The work is of poor quality. Certainly not up to our standards here in the shiny west. I'm not sure that being a pharmacist has anything to do with knowing herbs well either. I was told the other day by the pharmacist downstairs to be careful of gan cao because it raises blood pressure. She's nice and means well so I noted it in my mind to enlighten her about it at another time when I was better disposed. Hugo ____________ _________ _________ __ Hugo Ramiro http://middlemedici ne.wordpress. com http://www.middleme dicine.org ____________ _________ _________ __ " acudoc11 (AT) aol (DOT) com " <acudoc11 (AT) aol (DOT) com> Friday, 16 October, 2009 13:47:42 Re: Need some herbal data Hugo What kind of concerns about the quality of data so SOME have? I have known John since 1997 and have never found his information to be lacking. PLUS.....he is also a Pharm D and a Licensed Pharmacist in California. Richard In a message dated 10/16/09 1:13:31 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, subincor writes: Some have concerns regarding the quality of the data in John Chen's book. Anyway, the website does not make clear that there is a book associated with it. Hugo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 17, 2009 Report Share Posted October 17, 2009 You can go to tcmassistant.com and create an account. once you log in you can access a sort of online materia medica that is straight out of bensky. As far as know, this is still a free service. good luck! Joey Bedrosian LMBT (NC#3259) Advanced Massage Therapy 704-578-6245 nrgcreator live long & love strong ________________________________ Yuk Ming <sxm2649 Chinese Medicine Fri, October 16, 2009 10:28:40 PM Re: Need some herbal data Dear group: I feel obliged to explain my situation about seeking assistance from our members here. 1 I have finished writing a book about prevention and treatment of cancer with medicinal foods and Qigong and use latin and common names of herbs from Wiseman's dictionary in my English edition. 2 When I was in Chengdu this June and met some TCM practitioner from Florida, she showed me her quick-reference textbook and I found that some herbs I use in my book have different common and latin names. I realize different schools use different textbooks. Therefore, I hope to have another major textbook, Benskhy's book as reference. As I am in Hong Kong and am not accessible to Bensky's book physically or knows anyone who has any herbology textbook, I ask for help here. 3 Some member here suggested a website for me, yingyanghouse. com. It is huge with lots of contents but I could not find out where the sources of herbal come from or have any idea who construct this website. To be honest, I rarely use internet as a study aid. For example, when I decide to translate Jin Gui Yao Lue, I had already collected the reference books of Jin Gui. I have 30 plus of all kinds of Jin Gui books in my collections and I know exactly where my data come from. 4 I did not receive my CM education in states and I am definitely not familiar with the textbooks used there. With due respect, I never come across Chen's herbology book and have definitely no problems with his book. This creates a misunderstanding or misinterpreted when I said I did not know where the sources of those herbal data in the said website came from. I apologize if someone have those misconceptions. 5 This, again, shows the problems of absence of standardized textbooks. All I did is to find out what are best for my laymen readers and the best I can do is to collect all the available sources. Follow up After some good Samartian (thanks Anne) sent me the needed data, I found that there are major differences in the latin names. For example, xuan shen, in one book, it is Scrophulariae Radix, and the other is Radix Scrofularia. Can someone comment on this because I am going to ask here anyway. Sung, Yuk-ming Phd (Chengu U TCM), BA(Houston), L Ac (Hong Kong) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 17, 2009 Report Share Posted October 17, 2009 Hi people: I'l say it again: asians can't do science. Clearly. ??? Stop reacting, for those who are reacting, and *consider* instead. Some level of sarcasm has to be allowed in this forum, no? Richard, I don't really care what J Chen is. I bought his book, I reference it, it's good, better than my book (I have none). I am simply relaying what some in the field comment about his book. People who, unlike me, also have books. Sheesh, is it swine flu that's got into all of you? I guess I'll also apologise for not qualifying my unbridled racism with caveats *I'm just joking*, *tongue in cheek*, *My writing is dripping with sarcasm*. Sorry folks, I know it's not swine flu, it's just you all have yellow fever. Lovingly, to all my dear TCM- folks, seems I've been saying the wrong things for several days now, Hugo ________________________________ Hugo Ramiro http://middlemedicine.wordpress.com http://www.middlemedicine.org ________________________________ " acudoc11 " <acudoc11 Chinese Medicine Saturday, 17 October, 2009 10:15:10 Re: Need some herbal data Gabe Agreed. Hugo......John Chen is not only a PharmD and a RPh but more relevantly a Chinese materia medica herbalist. He has knowledge AND experience in BOTH worlds. And as I recall he worked in pharmaceutical manufacturing along the way. Richard In a message dated 10/17/09 7:37:13 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, fuentes120 writes: To just say Asians can't do science right is just ridiculous, is like saying westerners can't do Chinese medicine right. Some of the best research in the world comes out of countries like Japan, Taiwan, and Korea. There are some problems with China's research standards, but I would not include the whole of Asia. Gabe Fuentes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 17, 2009 Report Share Posted October 17, 2009 Dear all again: --Dr. Sung- 3 Some member here suggested a website for me, yingyanghouse. com. It is huge with lots of contents but I could not find out where the sources of herbal come from or have any idea who construct this website. --- Yinyanghouse has no significant herbal information. It focuses on acupuncture theory and the Tom Tam healing system. I recall a suggestion aired regarding alternativehealing.org, which is John Chen's website, which was the basis for my comments. Hugo ________________________________ Hugo Ramiro http://middlemedicine.wordpress.com http://www.middlemedicine.org Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 17, 2009 Report Share Posted October 17, 2009 Wow, Hugo. I was out of the loop for a few days - glad I missed it, whatever it was... :-) Andrea Beth Traditional Oriental Medicine Happy Hours in the CALM Center 635 S. 10th St. Cottonwood, AZ 86326 (928) 274-1373 --- On Sat, 10/17/09, Hugo Ramiro <subincor wrote: Hugo Ramiro <subincor Re: Need some herbal data Chinese Medicine Saturday, October 17, 2009, 12:53 PM Hi people: I'l say it again: asians can't do science. Clearly. ??? Stop reacting, for those who are reacting, and *consider* instead. Some level of sarcasm has to be allowed in this forum, no? Richard, I don't really care what J Chen is. I bought his book, I reference it, it's good, better than my book (I have none). I am simply relaying what some in the field comment about his book. People who, unlike me, also have books. Sheesh, is it swine flu that's got into all of you? I guess I'll also apologise for not qualifying my unbridled racism with caveats *I'm just joking*, *tongue in cheek*, *My writing is dripping with sarcasm*. Sorry folks, I know it's not swine flu, it's just you all have yellow fever. Lovingly, to all my dear TCM- folks, seems I've been saying the wrong things for several days now, Hugo ________________________________ Hugo Ramiro http://middlemedicine.wordpress.com http://www.middlemedicine.org ________________________________ " acudoc11 " <acudoc11 Chinese Medicine Saturday, 17 October, 2009 10:15:10 Re: TCM - Need some herbal data Gabe Agreed. Hugo......John Chen is not only a PharmD and a RPh but more relevantly a Chinese materia medica herbalist. He has knowledge AND experience in BOTH worlds. And as I recall he worked in pharmaceutical manufacturing along the way. Richard In a message dated 10/17/09 7:37:13 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, fuentes120 writes: To just say Asians can't do science right is just ridiculous, is like saying westerners can't do Chinese medicine right. Some of the best research in the world comes out of countries like Japan, Taiwan, and Korea. There are some problems with China's research standards, but I would not include the whole of Asia. Gabe Fuentes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 18, 2009 Report Share Posted October 18, 2009 Chinese Medicine , Gabriel Fuentes <fuentes120 wrote: > > As we all know, asians do not know how to do science right. The work is of poor quality. Certainly not up to our standards here in the shiny west. > > > To just say Asians can't do science right is just ridiculous, is like saying westerners can't do Chinese medicine right. Some of the best research in the world comes out of countries like Japan, Taiwan, and Korea. There are some problems with China's research standards, but I would not include the whole of Asia. > Gabe Fuentes I know Hugo can / will speak for himself, but I'm certain his comment was said tongue-in-cheek, adorned with the luscious taste of irony, or something similar. The clue is the " shiny west " reference My reading of posts in the thread does illuminate the single biggest bugbear in the nomenclature of herbs etc in any materia medica, which is that there is inconsistency between common names of herbs, and the Latin botanical and medicinal names. I understand pin yin names for herbs as being common names, and may sometimes refer to one or more plants. I struck this recently when trying to understand a modern prepared formula, and couldn't figure out what one of the ingredients was - one pin yin name refers to two completely different plants, depending upon one's references. I discovered one of the herbs is prohibited for use here in Australia, the other is not. My feeling is that the classification and nomenclature of any medicinal plant should be standardised to the Latin; a task which should keep an entire WHO department of ethno-botanists and herbalists et al busy for a decade or two. Do we need to address the practice of erroneously naming patent formulas which - for example - should traditionally contain Ginseng; now substituted with the cheaper Codonopsis by many comapnies; yet are still labelled Ginseng & _____________ Combination, both in pin yin and english? Margi Macdonald http://margihealing.wordpress.com/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 18, 2009 Report Share Posted October 18, 2009 Hi Andrea Beth; I am pretty sure I am recovering from the swine flu. Hugo ________________________________ Hugo Ramiro http://middlemedicine.wordpress.com http://www.middlemedicine.org ________________________________ < Chinese Medicine Saturday, 17 October, 2009 17:01:27 Re: Need some herbal data Wow, Hugo. I was out of the loop for a few days - glad I missed it, whatever it was... :-) Andrea Beth Traditional Oriental Medicine Happy Hours in the CALM Center 635 S. 10th St. Cottonwood, AZ 86326 (928) 274-1373 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 18, 2009 Report Share Posted October 18, 2009 Regardless of the intentions, there are many Asian members in this list that may take offense to such remarks, especially if they don't understand the humor. This is not just an American or Canadian forum, it's an international forum, therefore list members should be a little more sensitive to these sort of issues. Gabe Fuentes --- On Sat, 10/17/09, margi.macdonald <margi.macdonald wrote: margi.macdonald <margi.macdonald Re: Need some herbal data Chinese Medicine Saturday, October 17, 2009, 7:34 PM Traditional_ Chinese_Medicine , Gabriel Fuentes <fuentes120@ ...> wrote: > > As we all know, asians do not know how to do science right. The work is of poor quality. Certainly not up to our standards here in the shiny west. > > > To just say Asians can't do science right is just ridiculous, is like saying westerners can't do Chinese medicine right. Some of the best research in the world comes out of countries like Japan, Taiwan, and Korea. There are some problems with China's research standards, but I would not include the whole of Asia. > Gabe Fuentes I know Hugo can / will speak for himself, but I'm certain his comment was said tongue-in-cheek, adorned with the luscious taste of irony, or something similar. The clue is the " shiny west " reference My reading of posts in the thread does illuminate the single biggest bugbear in the nomenclature of herbs etc in any materia medica, which is that there is inconsistency between common names of herbs, and the Latin botanical and medicinal names. I understand pin yin names for herbs as being common names, and may sometimes refer to one or more plants. I struck this recently when trying to understand a modern prepared formula, and couldn't figure out what one of the ingredients was - one pin yin name refers to two completely different plants, depending upon one's references. I discovered one of the herbs is prohibited for use here in Australia, the other is not. My feeling is that the classification and nomenclature of any medicinal plant should be standardised to the Latin; a task which should keep an entire WHO department of ethno-botanists and herbalists et al busy for a decade or two. Do we need to address the practice of erroneously naming patent formulas which - for example - should traditionally contain Ginseng; now substituted with the cheaper Codonopsis by many comapnies; yet are still labelled Ginseng & ____________ _ Combination, both in pin yin and english? Margi Macdonald http://margihealing .wordpress. com/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 18, 2009 Report Share Posted October 18, 2009 Hi all: --Gabriel- This is not just an American or Canadian forum, it's an international forum, therefore list members should be a little more sensitive to these sort of issues. --- Gabriel, since we are on the topic of " these issues " , please don't use the term " american " to refer to the u.s.a since the term america refers to *two* continental land masses containing upwards of thirty nations. I am offended to see such a (non-ironical) display of colonialist writing on an international forum. As you can see, it is easy to offend. Can you not see that I was simply taking an irritable tack in expressing the colonialist problem regarding western orientalist conceptions? I, like you, Gabriel, feel incensed by *legitimately expressed* racism and colonialism, for example in the common psychological writings which state that " Asians tend to somatise illness " because they (unlike whites (or " modern people " , whichever you prefer)) do not have a cultural capacity to express themselves. The asians are all repressed indigenes, in other words. Let's modernise 'em. Google search " asians tend to somatize " and you will see how much one-sided opinion there is on the matter. This has huge repercussions for our medicine since modern psychology will in many cases be able to launch an assault against Chinese medicine based on this idea that our attempts to deal with emotional processes are naive, rudimentary and tend to *force somatisation* (this translates to " damaging the patient " ). My point is simple, can we all just not have the swine flu anymore? Let's be friends again, but thanks for the opportunity to air these issues, Gabe and all, Hugo ________________________________ Hugo Ramiro http://middlemedicine.wordpress.com http://www.middlemedicine.org ________________________________ Gabriel Fuentes <fuentes120 Chinese Medicine Saturday, 17 October, 2009 23:57:53 Re: Re: Need some herbal data Regardless of the intentions, there are many Asian members in this list that may take offense to such remarks, especially if they don't understand the humor. Gabe Fuentes --- On Sat, 10/17/09, margi.macdonald <margi.macdonald@ gmail.com> wrote: margi.macdonald <margi.macdonald@ gmail.com> Re: Need some herbal data Saturday, October 17, 2009, 7:34 PM Traditional_ Chinese_Medicine , Gabriel Fuentes <fuentes120@ ...> wrote: > > As we all know, asians do not know how to do science right. The work is of poor quality. Certainly not up to our standards here in the shiny west. > > > To just say Asians can't do science right is just ridiculous, is like saying westerners can't do Chinese medicine right. Some of the best research in the world comes out of countries like Japan, Taiwan, and Korea. There are some problems with China's research standards, but I would not include the whole of Asia. > Gabe Fuentes I know Hugo can / will speak for himself, but I'm certain his comment was said tongue-in-cheek, adorned with the luscious taste of irony, or something similar. The clue is the " shiny west " reference My reading of posts in the thread does illuminate the single biggest bugbear in the nomenclature of herbs etc in any materia medica, which is that there is inconsistency between common names of herbs, and the Latin botanical and medicinal names. I understand pin yin names for herbs as being common names, and may sometimes refer to one or more plants. I struck this recently when trying to understand a modern prepared formula, and couldn't figure out what one of the ingredients was - one pin yin name refers to two completely different plants, depending upon one's references. I discovered one of the herbs is prohibited for use here in Australia, the other is not. My feeling is that the classification and nomenclature of any medicinal plant should be standardised to the Latin; a task which should keep an entire WHO department of ethno-botanists and herbalists et al busy for a decade or two. Do we need to address the practice of erroneously naming patent formulas which - for example - should traditionally contain Ginseng; now substituted with the cheaper Codonopsis by many comapnies; yet are still labelled Ginseng & ____________ _ Combination, both in pin yin and english? Margi Macdonald http://margihealing .wordpress. com/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 19, 2009 Report Share Posted October 19, 2009 Point taken amigo! Gabe --- On Sun, 10/18/09, Hugo Ramiro <subincor wrote: Hugo Ramiro <subincor Re: Re: Need some herbal data Chinese Medicine Sunday, October 18, 2009, 10:51 AM Hi all: --Gabriel- This is not just an American or Canadian forum, it's an international forum, therefore list members should be a little more sensitive to these sort of issues. --- Gabriel, since we are on the topic of " these issues " , please don't use the term " american " to refer to the u.s.a since the term america refers to *two* continental land masses containing upwards of thirty nations. I am offended to see such a (non-ironical) display of colonialist writing on an international forum. As you can see, it is easy to offend. Can you not see that I was simply taking an irritable tack in expressing the colonialist problem regarding western orientalist conceptions? I, like you, Gabriel, feel incensed by *legitimately expressed* racism and colonialism, for example in the common psychological writings which state that " Asians tend to somatise illness " because they (unlike whites (or " modern people " , whichever you prefer)) do not have a cultural capacity to express themselves. The asians are all repressed indigenes, in other words. Let's modernise 'em. Google search " asians tend to somatize " and you will see how much one-sided opinion there is on the matter. This has huge repercussions for our medicine since modern psychology will in many cases be able to launch an assault against Chinese medicine based on this idea that our attempts to deal with emotional processes are naive, rudimentary and tend to *force somatisation* (this translates to " damaging the patient " ). My point is simple, can we all just not have the swine flu anymore? Let's be friends again, but thanks for the opportunity to air these issues, Gabe and all, Hugo ____________ _________ _________ __ Hugo Ramiro http://middlemedici ne.wordpress. com http://www.middleme dicine.org ____________ _________ _________ __ Gabriel Fuentes <fuentes120 > Saturday, 17 October, 2009 23:57:53 Re: Re: Need some herbal data Regardless of the intentions, there are many Asian members in this list that may take offense to such remarks, especially if they don't understand the humor. Gabe Fuentes --- On Sat, 10/17/09, margi.macdonald <margi.macdonald@ gmail.com> wrote: margi.macdonald <margi.macdonald@ gmail.com> Re: Need some herbal data Saturday, October 17, 2009, 7:34 PM Traditional_ Chinese_Medicine , Gabriel Fuentes <fuentes120@ ...> wrote: > > As we all know, asians do not know how to do science right. The work is of poor quality. Certainly not up to our standards here in the shiny west. > > > To just say Asians can't do science right is just ridiculous, is like saying westerners can't do Chinese medicine right. Some of the best research in the world comes out of countries like Japan, Taiwan, and Korea. There are some problems with China's research standards, but I would not include the whole of Asia. > Gabe Fuentes I know Hugo can / will speak for himself, but I'm certain his comment was said tongue-in-cheek, adorned with the luscious taste of irony, or something similar. The clue is the " shiny west " reference My reading of posts in the thread does illuminate the single biggest bugbear in the nomenclature of herbs etc in any materia medica, which is that there is inconsistency between common names of herbs, and the Latin botanical and medicinal names. I understand pin yin names for herbs as being common names, and may sometimes refer to one or more plants. I struck this recently when trying to understand a modern prepared formula, and couldn't figure out what one of the ingredients was - one pin yin name refers to two completely different plants, depending upon one's references. I discovered one of the herbs is prohibited for use here in Australia, the other is not. My feeling is that the classification and nomenclature of any medicinal plant should be standardised to the Latin; a task which should keep an entire WHO department of ethno-botanists and herbalists et al busy for a decade or two. Do we need to address the practice of erroneously naming patent formulas which - for example - should traditionally contain Ginseng; now substituted with the cheaper Codonopsis by many comapnies; yet are still labelled Ginseng & ____________ _ Combination, both in pin yin and english? Margi Macdonald http://margihealing .wordpress. com/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 19, 2009 Report Share Posted October 19, 2009 Point well taken amigo! Gabe Fuentes --- On Sun, 10/18/09, Hugo Ramiro <subincor wrote: Hugo Ramiro <subincor Re: Re: Need some herbal data Chinese Medicine Sunday, October 18, 2009, 10:51 AM Hi all: --Gabriel- This is not just an American or Canadian forum, it's an international forum, therefore list members should be a little more sensitive to these sort of issues. --- Gabriel, since we are on the topic of " these issues " , please don't use the term " american " to refer to the u.s.a since the term america refers to *two* continental land masses containing upwards of thirty nations. I am offended to see such a (non-ironical) display of colonialist writing on an international forum. As you can see, it is easy to offend. Can you not see that I was simply taking an irritable tack in expressing the colonialist problem regarding western orientalist conceptions? I, like you, Gabriel, feel incensed by *legitimately expressed* racism and colonialism, for example in the common psychological writings which state that " Asians tend to somatise illness " because they (unlike whites (or " modern people " , whichever you prefer)) do not have a cultural capacity to express themselves. The asians are all repressed indigenes, in other words. Let's modernise 'em. Google search " asians tend to somatize " and you will see how much one-sided opinion there is on the matter. This has huge repercussions for our medicine since modern psychology will in many cases be able to launch an assault against Chinese medicine based on this idea that our attempts to deal with emotional processes are naive, rudimentary and tend to *force somatisation* (this translates to " damaging the patient " ). My point is simple, can we all just not have the swine flu anymore? Let's be friends again, but thanks for the opportunity to air these issues, Gabe and all, Hugo ____________ _________ _________ __ Hugo Ramiro http://middlemedici ne.wordpress. com http://www.middleme dicine.org ____________ _________ _________ __ Gabriel Fuentes <fuentes120 > Saturday, 17 October, 2009 23:57:53 Re: Re: Need some herbal data Regardless of the intentions, there are many Asian members in this list that may take offense to such remarks, especially if they don't understand the humor. Gabe Fuentes --- On Sat, 10/17/09, margi.macdonald <margi.macdonald@ gmail.com> wrote: margi.macdonald <margi.macdonald@ gmail.com> Re: Need some herbal data Saturday, October 17, 2009, 7:34 PM Traditional_ Chinese_Medicine , Gabriel Fuentes <fuentes120@ ...> wrote: > > As we all know, asians do not know how to do science right. The work is of poor quality. Certainly not up to our standards here in the shiny west. > > > To just say Asians can't do science right is just ridiculous, is like saying westerners can't do Chinese medicine right. Some of the best research in the world comes out of countries like Japan, Taiwan, and Korea. There are some problems with China's research standards, but I would not include the whole of Asia. > Gabe Fuentes I know Hugo can / will speak for himself, but I'm certain his comment was said tongue-in-cheek, adorned with the luscious taste of irony, or something similar. The clue is the " shiny west " reference My reading of posts in the thread does illuminate the single biggest bugbear in the nomenclature of herbs etc in any materia medica, which is that there is inconsistency between common names of herbs, and the Latin botanical and medicinal names. I understand pin yin names for herbs as being common names, and may sometimes refer to one or more plants. I struck this recently when trying to understand a modern prepared formula, and couldn't figure out what one of the ingredients was - one pin yin name refers to two completely different plants, depending upon one's references. I discovered one of the herbs is prohibited for use here in Australia, the other is not. My feeling is that the classification and nomenclature of any medicinal plant should be standardised to the Latin; a task which should keep an entire WHO department of ethno-botanists and herbalists et al busy for a decade or two. Do we need to address the practice of erroneously naming patent formulas which - for example - should traditionally contain Ginseng; now substituted with the cheaper Codonopsis by many comapnies; yet are still labelled Ginseng & ____________ _ Combination, both in pin yin and english? Margi Macdonald http://margihealing .wordpress. com/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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