Guest guest Posted January 4, 2010 Report Share Posted January 4, 2010 I have a patient with a sense of a clog in her throat. She has had this problem for years. Sometimes she wakes in the night feeling like she can't breath because the throat is so restricted. I have tried many things and nothing budges it. I've tried Ban Xia Hou Po Tang for plumpit qi. I've tried treating it as a sinus issue with Cang Er Zi Tang plus heat clearing herbs. I've tried treating it as windcold trapped in the channels with Gui Zhi Tang plus Ma Huang/Xing Ren for the breathing issue. I've tried treating it as mostly deficiency plus a little wind damp clearing herbs. With all these herbs she says that she feels like the clog is trying to clear but nothing happens. She is not able to get much if any phlegm up, but when she does it is clear if she is on colder herbs and yellow if she is on warmer herbs. This developed around the time that she developed frozen shoulder. Any ideas? She is in her 50's, a lawyer, drinks a lot of coffee and over-works. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 4, 2010 Report Share Posted January 4, 2010 there's not enough tcm s/s to dx a pattern from what you've given here. i'm wondering about looking at dysphasia tx approaches, maybe that could help. the mc clean/lyttleton clin handbook vol. 2 discusses dysphasia. might provides ideas for new tx approaches. it's it stress/emo related? then liver could be involved. kath On Mon, Jan 4, 2010 at 11:49 AM, heylaurag <heylaurag wrote: > > > I have a patient with a sense of a clog in her throat. She has had this > problem for years. Sometimes she wakes in the night feeling like she can't > breath because the throat is so restricted. I have tried many things and > nothing budges it. I've tried Ban Xia Hou Po Tang for plumpit qi. I've tried > treating it as a sinus issue with Cang Er Zi Tang plus heat clearing herbs. > I've tried treating it as windcold trapped in the channels with Gui Zhi Tang > plus Ma Huang/Xing Ren for the breathing issue. I've tried treating it as > mostly deficiency plus a little wind damp clearing herbs. With all these > herbs she says that she feels like the clog is trying to clear but nothing > happens. She is not able to get much if any phlegm up, but when she does it > is clear if she is on colder herbs and yellow if she is on warmer herbs. > > This developed around the time that she developed frozen shoulder. > > Any ideas? She is in her 50's, a lawyer, drinks a lot of coffee and > over-works. > > > -- Kath Bartlett, LAc, MS, BA UCLA Oriental Medicine Experienced, Dedicated, Effective Abstain from all that is evil. Perform all that is good. Purify your thoughts. This is the teaching of the Buddhas. Kath's Blog about , Healthy Living & Spirituality: http://acukath.blogspot.com/ Flying Dragon Liniment: Effective pain relief for muscles & joints Formulated by Kath Bartlett, Traditional Chinese Herbalist Available at Asheville Center for : www.FlyingDragonLiniment.com Greenlife Grocery - Asheville, NC Amazon.com http://www.amazon.com/Flying-Dragon-Liniment-Eco-Friendly-Wild-Crafted/dp/B001OC\ 1AZ2/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8 & s=hpc & qid=1254968032 & sr=8-1 and from the following supply companies: Kamwo Herbal Pharmacy: NY - Chinatown https://www.kamwo.com/shop/product.php?productid=17442 & cat=0 & page=1 Golden Needle Acupuncture, Herbal & Medical Supply - Candler, NC http://www.goldenneedleonline.com/index.php?page=categories & category=14 & vendor= & \ product=5554 & pg= Asheville Center For 70 Woodfin Place, Suite West Wing Two Asheville, NC 28801 828.258.2777 kbartlett www.AcupunctureAsheville.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 4, 2010 Report Share Posted January 4, 2010 I have heard of similar symptoms being associated with things we couldn't possibly diagnose, with our training. One is an esophageal stricture. My dad had this, and it was opened surgically. Another is a herniated esophagus. My partner's 94 year-old grandmother had this, and it was corrected surgically. In her case, the hernia created a pouch in which food collected, and made it hard to swallow. Looking at her, you might have thought it was a goiter. The frozen shoulder in your patient may be an interesting clue, or may be unrelated. Has she had this clog problem evaluated medically? If not, that would be my next recommendation. Andrea Beth Traditional Oriental Medicine Happy Hours in the CALM Center 635 S. 10th St. Cottonwood, AZ 86326 (928) 274-1373 --- On Mon, 1/4/10, heylaurag <heylaurag wrote: heylaurag <heylaurag clog in throat Chinese Medicine Monday, January 4, 2010, 9:49 AM I have a patient with a sense of a clog in her throat. She has had this problem for years. Sometimes she wakes in the night feeling like she can't breath because the throat is so restricted. I have tried many things and nothing budges it. I've tried Ban Xia Hou Po Tang for plumpit qi. I've tried treating it as a sinus issue with Cang Er Zi Tang plus heat clearing herbs. I've tried treating it as windcold trapped in the channels with Gui Zhi Tang plus Ma Huang/Xing Ren for the breathing issue. I've tried treating it as mostly deficiency plus a little wind damp clearing herbs. With all these herbs she says that she feels like the clog is trying to clear but nothing happens. She is not able to get much if any phlegm up, but when she does it is clear if she is on colder herbs and yellow if she is on warmer herbs. This developed around the time that she developed frozen shoulder. Any ideas? She is in her 50's, a lawyer, drinks a lot of coffee and over-works. --- Subscribe to the free online journal for TCM at Times http://www.chinesemedicinetimes.com Help build the world's largest online encyclopedia for Chinese medicine and acupuncture, click, http://www.chinesemedicinetimes.com/wiki/CMTpedia and adjust accordingly. Please consider the environment and only print this message if absolutely necessary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 5, 2010 Report Share Posted January 5, 2010 Yes, she's had the works on it, including exploratory surgery. Basically all that they have done is give her antiacids, which have done nothing. I've seen a patient like this before who had wind-damp combined with yin deficiency. I was able to successfully treat that patient. But this one continues to confound me. I worked on it for a year and got nowhere about 2 years ago. Then she stopped coming for a year. I recently had some new ideas, so I offered to treat her for free unless I am able to resolve it--to only charge her if I resolve the problem for her. I know, kind of crazy of me. Its not like I need the business--I have a waiting list. I just feel like there has to be a way to address it. But now that I am once again getting nowhere with her I am starting to regret making this offer... Chinese Medicine , < wrote: > > I have heard of similar symptoms being associated with things we couldn't possibly diagnose, with our training. One is an esophageal stricture. My dad had this, and it was opened surgically. Another is a herniated esophagus. My partner's 94 year-old grandmother had this, and it was corrected surgically. In her case, the hernia created a pouch in which food collected, and made it hard to swallow. Looking at her, you might have thought it was a goiter. > > The frozen shoulder in your patient may be an interesting clue, or may be unrelated. Has she had this clog problem evaluated medically? If not, that would be my next recommendation. > > Andrea Beth > > Traditional Oriental Medicine > Happy Hours in the CALM Center > 635 S. 10th St. > Cottonwood, AZ 86326 > (928) 274-1373 > > > --- On Mon, 1/4/10, heylaurag <heylaurag wrote: > > heylaurag <heylaurag > clog in throat > Chinese Medicine > Monday, January 4, 2010, 9:49 AM > > I have a patient with a sense of a clog in her throat. She has had this problem for years. Sometimes she wakes in the night feeling like she can't breath because the throat is so restricted. I have tried many things and nothing budges it. I've tried Ban Xia Hou Po Tang for plumpit qi. I've tried treating it as a sinus issue with Cang Er Zi Tang plus heat clearing herbs. I've tried treating it as windcold trapped in the channels with Gui Zhi Tang plus Ma Huang/Xing Ren for the breathing issue. I've tried treating it as mostly deficiency plus a little wind damp clearing herbs. With all these herbs she says that she feels like the clog is trying to clear but nothing happens. She is not able to get much if any phlegm up, but when she does it is clear if she is on colder herbs and yellow if she is on warmer herbs. > > This developed around the time that she developed frozen shoulder. > > Any ideas? She is in her 50's, a lawyer, drinks a lot of coffee and over-works. > > > > > --- > > Subscribe to the free online journal for TCM at Times http://www.chinesemedicinetimes.com > > Help build the world's largest online encyclopedia for Chinese medicine and acupuncture, click, http://www.chinesemedicinetimes.com/wiki/CMTpedia > > and adjust accordingly. > > > > Please consider the environment and only print this message if absolutely necessary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 5, 2010 Report Share Posted January 5, 2010 Hi Laura: --Laura- But now that I am once again getting nowhere with her I am starting to regret making this offer... --- Don't regret making it, it will be understood all 'round that you are " merely " dedicated. It would be nice to hear a complete CM intake on her. Hugo ________________________________ Hugo Ramiro http://middlemedicine.wordpress.com http://www.middlemedicine.org Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 5, 2010 Report Share Posted January 5, 2010 have you tried to treat the throat constriction with acupuncture? -RoseAnne On Jan 4, 2010, at 7:21 PM, heylaurag wrote: > Yes, she's had the works on it, including exploratory surgery. > Basically all that they have done is give her antiacids, which have > done nothing. > > I've seen a patient like this before who had wind-damp combined > with yin deficiency. I was able to successfully treat that > patient. But this one continues to confound me. I worked on it > for a year and got nowhere about 2 years ago. Then she stopped > coming for a year. I recently had some new ideas, so I offered to > treat her for free unless I am able to resolve it--to only charge > her if I resolve the problem for her. I know, kind of crazy of > me. Its not like I need the business--I have a waiting list. I > just feel like there has to be a way to address it. But now that I > am once again getting nowhere with her I am starting to regret > making this offer... Chinese Medicine , Andrea Beth > Damsky < wrote: >> >> I have heard of similar symptoms being associated with things we >> couldn't possibly diagnose, with our training. One is an >> esophageal stricture. My dad had this, and it was opened >> surgically. Another is a herniated esophagus. My partner's 94 >> year-old grandmother had this, and it was corrected surgically. >> In her case, the hernia created a pouch in which food collected, >> and made it hard to swallow. Looking at her, you might have >> thought it was a goiter. >> >> The frozen shoulder in your patient may be an interesting clue, or >> may be unrelated. Has she had this clog problem evaluated >> medically? If not, that would be my next recommendation. >> >> Andrea Beth >> >> Traditional Oriental Medicine >> Happy Hours in the CALM Center >> 635 S. 10th St. >> Cottonwood, AZ 86326 >> (928) 274-1373 >> >> >> --- On Mon, 1/4/10, heylaurag <heylaurag wrote: >> >> heylaurag <heylaurag >> clog in throat >> Chinese Medicine >> Monday, January 4, 2010, 9:49 AM >> >> I have a patient with a sense of a clog in her throat. She has >> had this problem for years. Sometimes she wakes in the night >> feeling like she can't breath because the throat is so restricted. >> I have tried many things and nothing budges it. I've tried Ban >> Xia Hou Po Tang for plumpit qi. I've tried treating it as a sinus >> issue with Cang Er Zi Tang plus heat clearing herbs. I've tried >> treating it as windcold trapped in the channels with Gui Zhi Tang >> plus Ma Huang/Xing Ren for the breathing issue. I've tried >> treating it as mostly deficiency plus a little wind damp clearing >> herbs. With all these herbs she says that she feels like the clog >> is trying to clear but nothing happens. She is not able to get >> much if any phlegm up, but when she does it is clear if she is on >> colder herbs and yellow if she is on warmer herbs. >> >> This developed around the time that she developed frozen shoulder. >> >> Any ideas? She is in her 50's, a lawyer, drinks a lot of coffee >> and over-works. >> >> >> >> >> --- >> >> Subscribe to the free online journal for TCM at >> Times http://www.chinesemedicinetimes.com >> >> Help build the world's largest online encyclopedia for Chinese >> medicine and acupuncture, click, http:// >> www.chinesemedicinetimes.com/wiki/CMTpedia >> >> http:// >> and >> adjust accordingly. >> >> Messages are the property of the author. Any duplication outside >> the group requires prior permission from the author. >> >> Please consider the environment and only print this message if >> absolutely necessary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 5, 2010 Report Share Posted January 5, 2010 does she have rebellious stomach qi? Traditional Oriental Medicine Happy Hours in the CALM Center 635 S. 10th St. Cottonwood, AZ 86326 (928) 274-1373 --- On Mon, 1/4/10, heylaurag <heylaurag wrote: heylaurag <heylaurag Re: clog in throat Chinese Medicine Monday, January 4, 2010, 5:21 PM Yes, she's had the works on it, including exploratory surgery. Basically all that they have done is give her antiacids, which have done nothing. I've seen a patient like this before who had wind-damp combined with yin deficiency. I was able to successfully treat that patient. But this one continues to confound me. I worked on it for a year and got nowhere about 2 years ago. Then she stopped coming for a year. I recently had some new ideas, so I offered to treat her for free unless I am able to resolve it--to only charge her if I resolve the problem for her. I know, kind of crazy of me. Its not like I need the business--I have a waiting list. I just feel like there has to be a way to address it. But now that I am once again getting nowhere with her I am starting to regret making this offer... Chinese Medicine , < wrote: > > I have heard of similar symptoms being associated with things we couldn't possibly diagnose, with our training. One is an esophageal stricture. My dad had this, and it was opened surgically. Another is a herniated esophagus. My partner's 94 year-old grandmother had this, and it was corrected surgically. In her case, the hernia created a pouch in which food collected, and made it hard to swallow. Looking at her, you might have thought it was a goiter. > > The frozen shoulder in your patient may be an interesting clue, or may be unrelated. Has she had this clog problem evaluated medically? If not, that would be my next recommendation. > > Andrea Beth > > Traditional Oriental Medicine > Happy Hours in the CALM Center > 635 S. 10th St. > Cottonwood, AZ 86326 > (928) 274-1373 > > > --- On Mon, 1/4/10, heylaurag <heylaurag wrote: > > heylaurag <heylaurag > TCM - clog in throat > Chinese Medicine > Monday, January 4, 2010, 9:49 AM > > I have a patient with a sense of a clog in her throat. She has had this problem for years. Sometimes she wakes in the night feeling like she can't breath because the throat is so restricted. I have tried many things and nothing budges it. I've tried Ban Xia Hou Po Tang for plumpit qi. I've tried treating it as a sinus issue with Cang Er Zi Tang plus heat clearing herbs. I've tried treating it as windcold trapped in the channels with Gui Zhi Tang plus Ma Huang/Xing Ren for the breathing issue. I've tried treating it as mostly deficiency plus a little wind damp clearing herbs. With all these herbs she says that she feels like the clog is trying to clear but nothing happens. She is not able to get much if any phlegm up, but when she does it is clear if she is on colder herbs and yellow if she is on warmer herbs. > > This developed around the time that she developed frozen shoulder. > > Any ideas? She is in her 50's, a lawyer, drinks a lot of coffee and over-works. > > > > > --- > > Subscribe to the free online journal for TCM at Times http://www.chinesemedicinetimes.com > > Help build the world's largest online encyclopedia for Chinese medicine and acupuncture, click, http://www.chinesemedicinetimes.com/wiki/CMTpedia > > and adjust accordingly. > > > > Please consider the environment and only print this message if absolutely necessary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 5, 2010 Report Share Posted January 5, 2010 The primary channels instrumental in frozen shoulder: posterior: SI (9-15), GB, SJ anterior: LI, ST of those.... the SI, LI, ST also traverse the throat region. If it was a posterior channel issue, most likely SI, if anterior, then LI or ST. Pulse and channel palpation can narrow it down to most affected channels. Tx: can do shu stream point on affected channel and opposite side mirroring points... ie... SI = SI 3 (same side)... HT 5 - Luo pt for aphasia or HT 7 (opposite side) or UB 60 or 62 (opposite side) ie... LI = LI 3 (same side)... Lung 7 (throat pt.) or Lung 9 (opposite side) or ST 38-frozen shoulder pt. , 40 or 44 (opposite side) The 8 extras: Ren, Yin wei, Chong traverse the throat Lung 7 (opens Ren, command of head and neck) w/ KD 6 (KD channel also enters throat... ends at KD 27 and root of tongue) PC 6 (Yin wei) w/ SP 4 (Chong) Can use one or both axis combinations, alternating. Herbs requires more info.... thyroid issues? reflux? K .... K On Mon, Jan 4, 2010 at 10:06 PM, <wrote: > > > does she have rebellious stomach qi? > > > > Traditional Oriental Medicine > Happy Hours in the CALM Center > 635 S. 10th St. > Cottonwood, AZ 86326 > (928) 274-1373 > > --- On Mon, 1/4/10, heylaurag <heylaurag<heylaurag%40hotmail.com>> > wrote: > > heylaurag <heylaurag <heylaurag%40hotmail.com>> > Re: clog in throat > > To: Chinese Medicine <Chinese Medicine%40yaho\ ogroups.com> > Monday, January 4, 2010, 5:21 PM > > > Yes, she's had the works on it, including exploratory surgery. Basically > all that they have done is give her antiacids, which have done nothing. > > I've seen a patient like this before who had wind-damp combined with yin > deficiency. I was able to successfully treat that patient. But this one > continues to confound me. I worked on it for a year and got nowhere about 2 > years ago. Then she stopped coming for a year. I recently had some new > ideas, so I offered to treat her for free unless I am able to resolve it--to > only charge her if I resolve the problem for her. I know, kind of crazy of > me. Its not like I need the business--I have a waiting list. I just feel > like there has to be a way to address it. But now that I am once again > getting nowhere with her I am starting to regret making this offer... > > --- In Chinese Medicine <Chinese Medicine%40yaho\ ogroups.com>, > < wrote: > > > > I have heard of similar symptoms being associated with things we couldn't > possibly diagnose, with our training. One is an esophageal stricture. My > dad had this, and it was opened surgically. Another is a herniated > esophagus. My partner's 94 year-old grandmother had this, and it was > corrected surgically. In her case, the hernia created a pouch in which food > collected, and made it hard to swallow. Looking at her, you might have > thought it was a goiter. > > > > The frozen shoulder in your patient may be an interesting clue, or may be > unrelated. Has she had this clog problem evaluated medically? If not, that > would be my next recommendation. > > > > Andrea Beth > > > > Traditional Oriental Medicine > > Happy Hours in the CALM Center > > 635 S. 10th St. > > Cottonwood, AZ 86326 > > (928) 274-1373 > > > > > > --- On Mon, 1/4/10, heylaurag <heylaurag wrote: > > > > heylaurag <heylaurag > > clog in throat > > To: Chinese Medicine <Chinese Medicine%40yaho\ ogroups.com> > > Monday, January 4, 2010, 9:49 AM > > > > I have a patient with a sense of a clog in her throat. She has had this > problem for years. Sometimes she wakes in the night feeling like she can't > breath because the throat is so restricted. I have tried many things and > nothing budges it. I've tried Ban Xia Hou Po Tang for plumpit qi. I've > tried treating it as a sinus issue with Cang Er Zi Tang plus heat clearing > herbs. I've tried treating it as windcold trapped in the channels with Gui > Zhi Tang plus Ma Huang/Xing Ren for the breathing issue. I've tried > treating it as mostly deficiency plus a little wind damp clearing herbs. > With all these herbs she says that she feels like the clog is trying to > clear but nothing happens. She is not able to get much if any phlegm up, > but when she does it is clear if she is on colder herbs and yellow if she is > on warmer herbs. > > > > This developed around the time that she developed frozen shoulder. > > > > Any ideas? She is in her 50's, a lawyer, drinks a lot of coffee and > over-works. > > > > > > > > > > --- > > > > Subscribe to the free online journal for TCM at Times > http://www.chinesemedicinetimes.com > > > > Help build the world's largest online encyclopedia for Chinese medicine > and acupuncture, click, http://www.chinesemedicinetimes.com/wiki/CMTpedia > > > > > and adjust > accordingly. > > > > Messages are the property of the author. Any duplication outside the > group requires prior permission from the author. > > > > Please consider the environment and only print this message if absolutely > necessary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 5, 2010 Report Share Posted January 5, 2010 PC 6 makes sense if it's a yin-wei issue.. Nei guan opens the free flow of Qi in the chest, diaphragm and ST Does PC 6, research-wise, have an effect on the vagus nerve? K On Tue, Jan 5, 2010 at 1:23 AM, heylaurag <heylaurag wrote: > > > Thanks for your thoughts. I agree--sometimes the most powerful treatment is > one point. Its easy to get lost in complicated acupuncture treatments or > thinking herbs are the only answer, but sometimes the best treatment turns > out to be one well selected point. > > In this case, I have tried acupuncture on her without herbs. But maybe I > should try nothing but P6. Not a bad idea. > > --- In Chinese Medicine <Chinese Medicine%40yaho\ ogroups.com>, > Nam Nguyen <dr_namnguyen58 wrote: > > > > Heylaura, > > I might have run into this problem about 4 times, 4 different > patients. It may be different, but similar symptoms. > > One have a very difficult swallowing food or fluids, it hurt bad. > Physical body was fine and healthy.................. Pulse was fast but > tight.......... Rx : P6 not deep, surface only, needling toward the > shoulder. In minutes, the pain disappeared. I had this patient eating to see > if it resolved. Perfectly, fine for years.......... Not recurred. > > Another had emotional problems, feel tired, sad, and crying most of > the time... Pale face, deep- thready pulse. Eating got choke at the throat, > same as with drinking..... Rx : P6 ( needling deeper, at mid level, upward > to the shoulder ), within minutes, usually 2 - 3 min..... Problems > solved............ No recurred , 3 yrs passed.......... > > Other, after eating food got choke at the chest, down close to the > heart, so painful, almost losing breath, attempted to suicide several > times........ Emotional problems, anger easily, crying most of the time, > talking very loud and non-stop......... Forceful, wiry pulse, red face, dry > tongue................. Rx : P6 , insert needle midway, toward the shoulder, > having patient eating afterward and asked patient to swallow. She > immediately felt pain. Needle at this time pressed and twisted slowly, > within seconds food passed........ No more pain, no more choke......... > Asked patient again to eat, no more choking............. no more feeling > pain. > > All of these above, if we analyze there would be different causes, > different diagnosis. However, the treatment is one.................. Only > one pt is chosen P6......... Manipulation is depended on each cause and each > pulse.......... NO herbs were prescribed. > > > > > > I hope this will help your case ! > > > > WHY DID I CHOOSE THIS POINT ? > > Pericardium, Heart, SI, Sanjiao channnels are the channels of EXTREMEQI , > related to ( Fire Element ).Regulate Qi , everything will turn out fine, but > not any Qi. Only the Qi that communicate to the throat. I would not fix > something which has no problem, Liver Qi or Ki Qi were not involved, so I > did not touch them. LET THEM BE IF THEY ARE FINE.......... Beside, the > throat, or heart are UPPERJIAO. Upperjiao, or upper level related to Fire, > Qi. > > Heart Qi, and Pericardium Qi travel through the esophagus, or throat > directly to the head. > > > > Please do not think Acupuncture does not work........ It works in a > miracle way, but we should know how. > > > > Good luck !!!!!!!!!!!!!! > > > > Nam Nguyen > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 5, 2010 Report Share Posted January 5, 2010 My father was always clearing his throat - he said that he felt that he had something stuck in his throat. The doctors said it was caused by allergies and he was given antihistamines. This went on for 12 years. Turns out it was caused by an aneurysm in his descending aorta that was pressing on his trachea - eventually it ruptured and he died. They tried to operate but could not stop the bleeding. It seems that this is a common symptom for this type of aneurysm. The upsetting thing was that 15 years earlier he had an abdominal aneurysm removed and I would have thought that they would have been checking the thoracic aorta for weakness - however it does seem that this type of aneurysm can be difficult to detect. I agree with Andrea Beth that some things we couldn't possibly diagnose with our training. Mary Chamberlain,LAc, MS. 518-798-8899 < Chinese Medicine Mon, Jan 4, 2010 5:05 pm Re: clog in throat I have heard of similar symptoms being associated with things we couldn't possibly diagnose, with our training. One is an esophageal stricture. My dad had this, and it was opened surgically. Another is a herniated esophagus. My partner's 94 year-old grandmother had this, and it was corrected surgically. In her case, the hernia created a pouch in which food collected, and made it hard to swallow. Looking at her, you might have thought it was a goiter. The frozen shoulder in your patient may be an interesting clue, or may be unrelated. Has she had this clog problem evaluated medically? If not, that would be my next recommendation. Andrea Beth Traditional Oriental Medicine Happy Hours in the CALM Center 635 S. 10th St. Cottonwood, AZ 86326 (928) 274-1373 --- On Mon, 1/4/10, heylaurag <heylaurag wrote: heylaurag <heylaurag clog in throat Chinese Medicine Monday, January 4, 2010, 9:49 AM I have a patient with a sense of a clog in her throat. She has had this problem for years. Sometimes she wakes in the night feeling like she can't breath because the throat is so restricted. I have tried many things and nothing budges it. I've tried Ban Xia Hou Po Tang for plumpit qi. I've tried treating it as a sinus issue with Cang Er Zi Tang plus heat clearing herbs. I've tried treating it as windcold trapped in the channels with Gui Zhi Tang plus Ma Huang/Xing Ren for the breathing issue. I've tried treating it as mostly deficiency plus a little wind damp clearing herbs. With all these herbs she says that she feels like the clog is trying to clear but nothing happens. She is not able to get much if any phlegm up, but when she does it is clear if she is on colder herbs and yellow if she is on warmer herbs. This developed around the time that she developed frozen shoulder. Any ideas? She is in her 50's, a lawyer, drinks a lot of coffee and over-works. --- Subscribe to the free online journal for TCM at Times http://www.chinesemedicinetimes.com Help build the world's largest online encyclopedia for Chinese medicine and acupuncture, click, http://www.chinesemedicinetimes.com/wiki/CMTpedia and adjust accordingly. Please consider the environment and only print this message if absolutely necessary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 5, 2010 Report Share Posted January 5, 2010 Great ideas! I like this kind of a treatment. Chinese Medicine , <johnkokko wrote: > > The primary channels instrumental in frozen shoulder: > posterior: SI (9-15), GB, SJ > anterior: LI, ST > of those.... the SI, LI, ST also traverse the throat region. > > If it was a posterior channel issue, most likely SI, > if anterior, then LI or ST. > > Pulse and channel palpation can narrow it down to most affected channels. > > Tx: can do shu stream point on affected channel and opposite side mirroring > points... > ie... SI = SI 3 (same side)... HT 5 - Luo pt for aphasia or HT 7 (opposite > side) > or UB 60 or 62 > (opposite side) > ie... LI = LI 3 (same side)... Lung 7 (throat pt.) or Lung 9 (opposite > side) > or ST 38-frozen > shoulder pt. , 40 or 44 (opposite side) > > The 8 extras: Ren, Yin wei, Chong traverse the throat > Lung 7 (opens Ren, command of head and neck) w/ KD 6 (KD channel also enters > throat... ends at KD 27 and root of tongue) > PC 6 (Yin wei) w/ SP 4 (Chong) > > Can use one or both axis combinations, alternating. > > Herbs requires more info.... > thyroid issues? reflux? > > K > > > ... > K > > > > > On Mon, Jan 4, 2010 at 10:06 PM, <wrote: > > > > > > > does she have rebellious stomach qi? > > > > > > > > Traditional Oriental Medicine > > Happy Hours in the CALM Center > > 635 S. 10th St. > > Cottonwood, AZ 86326 > > (928) 274-1373 > > > > --- On Mon, 1/4/10, heylaurag <heylaurag<heylaurag%40hotmail.com>> > > wrote: > > > > heylaurag <heylaurag <heylaurag%40hotmail.com>> > > Re: clog in throat > > > > To: Chinese Medicine <Chinese Medicine%40yaho\ ogroups.com> > > Monday, January 4, 2010, 5:21 PM > > > > > > Yes, she's had the works on it, including exploratory surgery. Basically > > all that they have done is give her antiacids, which have done nothing. > > > > I've seen a patient like this before who had wind-damp combined with yin > > deficiency. I was able to successfully treat that patient. But this one > > continues to confound me. I worked on it for a year and got nowhere about 2 > > years ago. Then she stopped coming for a year. I recently had some new > > ideas, so I offered to treat her for free unless I am able to resolve it--to > > only charge her if I resolve the problem for her. I know, kind of crazy of > > me. Its not like I need the business--I have a waiting list. I just feel > > like there has to be a way to address it. But now that I am once again > > getting nowhere with her I am starting to regret making this offer... > > > > --- In Chinese Medicine <Chinese Medicine%40yaho\ ogroups.com>, > > <@> wrote: > > > > > > I have heard of similar symptoms being associated with things we couldn't > > possibly diagnose, with our training. One is an esophageal stricture. My > > dad had this, and it was opened surgically. Another is a herniated > > esophagus. My partner's 94 year-old grandmother had this, and it was > > corrected surgically. In her case, the hernia created a pouch in which food > > collected, and made it hard to swallow. Looking at her, you might have > > thought it was a goiter. > > > > > > The frozen shoulder in your patient may be an interesting clue, or may be > > unrelated. Has she had this clog problem evaluated medically? If not, that > > would be my next recommendation. > > > > > > Andrea Beth > > > > > > Traditional Oriental Medicine > > > Happy Hours in the CALM Center > > > 635 S. 10th St. > > > Cottonwood, AZ 86326 > > > (928) 274-1373 > > > > > > > > > --- On Mon, 1/4/10, heylaurag <heylaurag@> wrote: > > > > > > heylaurag <heylaurag@> > > > clog in throat > > > To: Chinese Medicine <Chinese Medicine%40yaho\ ogroups.com> > > > Monday, January 4, 2010, 9:49 AM > > > > > > I have a patient with a sense of a clog in her throat. She has had this > > problem for years. Sometimes she wakes in the night feeling like she can't > > breath because the throat is so restricted. I have tried many things and > > nothing budges it. I've tried Ban Xia Hou Po Tang for plumpit qi. I've > > tried treating it as a sinus issue with Cang Er Zi Tang plus heat clearing > > herbs. I've tried treating it as windcold trapped in the channels with Gui > > Zhi Tang plus Ma Huang/Xing Ren for the breathing issue. I've tried > > treating it as mostly deficiency plus a little wind damp clearing herbs. > > With all these herbs she says that she feels like the clog is trying to > > clear but nothing happens. She is not able to get much if any phlegm up, > > but when she does it is clear if she is on colder herbs and yellow if she is > > on warmer herbs. > > > > > > This developed around the time that she developed frozen shoulder. > > > > > > Any ideas? She is in her 50's, a lawyer, drinks a lot of coffee and > > over-works. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- > > > > > > Subscribe to the free online journal for TCM at Times > > http://www.chinesemedicinetimes.com > > > > > > Help build the world's largest online encyclopedia for Chinese medicine > > and acupuncture, click, http://www.chinesemedicinetimes.com/wiki/CMTpedia > > > > > > > > and adjust > > accordingly. > > > > > > Messages are the property of the author. Any duplication outside the > > group requires prior permission from the author. > > > > > > Please consider the environment and only print this message if absolutely > > necessary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.