Guest guest Posted February 3, 2010 Report Share Posted February 3, 2010 Does someone have a used copy of " Nourishing Destiny " Laying around that they want to sell? I'd like to take a look at it but it's just ridiculously over-priced. Regards, Angela Pfaffenberger, Ph.D. angelapfa www.InnerhealthSalem.com Phone: 503 364 3022 - Lonny Chinese Medicine Wednesday, February 03, 2010 7:17 AM Online Study group: The Clinical Practice of http://nourishingdestiny.com/discussions/2011 Hello folks, Over at Nourishingdestiny.com there is an online study group working through my text, The Clinical Practice of . We are on chapter one and I am available for any questions. The current discussion is focused on understanding shock and its relationship to the ht/Ki axis. The " class " is free and we will work through the entire text. Regards, Lonny Jarrett Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 3, 2010 Report Share Posted February 3, 2010 Angela. I am not sure what you mean by " ridiculously overpriced " . That book is the most important book I have bought in a long time. You can go to Spiritpathpress.com for the best price on the market. Anne Biris Sent from my iPhone On Feb 3, 2010, at 12:29 PM, " Angela Pfaffenberger, PH.D. " <angelapfa > wrote: > Does someone have a used copy of " Nourishing Destiny " Laying around > that they want to sell? I'd like to take a look at it but it's just > ridiculously over-priced. > > Regards, > Angela Pfaffenberger, Ph.D. > > angelapfa > > www.InnerhealthSalem.com > > Phone: 503 364 3022 > - > Lonny > Chinese Medicine > Wednesday, February 03, 2010 7:17 AM > Online Study group: The Clinical Practice of Chinese > Medicine > > http://nourishingdestiny.com/discussions/2011 > > Hello folks, > > Over at Nourishingdestiny.com there is an online study group working > through my text, The Clinical Practice of . We are > on chapter one and I am available for any questions. The current > discussion is focused on understanding shock and its relationship to > the ht/Ki axis. The " class " is free and we will work through the > entire text. > > Regards, Lonny Jarrett > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 4, 2010 Report Share Posted February 4, 2010 Chinese Medicine , " Angela Pfaffenberger, PH.D. " <angelapfa wrote: > > Does someone have a used copy of " Nourishing Destiny " Laying around that they want to sell? I'd like to take a look at it but it's just ridiculously over-priced. Lonny: Angela, the book you refer to took 15 years to write and more thousands of hours than I could count. It was a labor of love with no guarantee that I'd ever make a penny from it. It was entirely self financed as it was rejected by the the first 40 publishers I sent it to as having " no commercial potential " ( " there is no market for this " ). The build on Nourishing Destiny is the best in the business with the highest quality paper and binding money can buy short of an archival art book. With proper care it will last lifetimes. This compared to many books at nearly twice the price with glued in pages that fall out after a year or so. Both my texts are priced 25-40% below comparable texts in the field. I think your assessment is harsh and lacks the gratitude that a professional should exhibit to the hard work and sacrifice of those of us who have given our lives to advancing the profession. What it takes to produce a work such as this is unimaginable to those who have not done it. If you send me your address, I'll send you a copy of the book and you can mail me a check for whatever you think its worth. Straight Ahead, Lonny Jarrett Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 4, 2010 Report Share Posted February 4, 2010 I have both of Lonny's books and they are well worth the cost that I paid for. Thank you Lonny for sharing with us your knowledge and experience. Dan Clark, Acupuncturist Chinese Medicine Revolution Thu, 4 Feb 2010 12:55:17 +0000 Re: Nourishing Destiny Chinese Medicine , " Angela Pfaffenberger, PH.D. " <angelapfa wrote: > > Does someone have a used copy of " Nourishing Destiny " Laying around that they want to sell? I'd like to take a look at it but it's just ridiculously over-priced. Lonny: Angela, the book you refer to took 15 years to write and more thousands of hours than I could count. It was a labor of love with no guarantee that I'd ever make a penny from it. It was entirely self financed as it was rejected by the the first 40 publishers I sent it to as having " no commercial potential " ( " there is no market for this " ). The build on Nourishing Destiny is the best in the business with the highest quality paper and binding money can buy short of an archival art book. With proper care it will last lifetimes. This compared to many books at nearly twice the price with glued in pages that fall out after a year or so. Both my texts are priced 25-40% below comparable texts in the field. I think your assessment is harsh and lacks the gratitude that a professional should exhibit to the hard work and sacrifice of those of us who have given our lives to advancing the profession. What it takes to produce a work such as this is unimaginable to those who have not done it. If you send me your address, I'll send you a copy of the book and you can mail me a check for whatever you think its worth. Straight Ahead, Lonny Jarrett Reply to sender | Reply to group Messages in this topic (4) Recent Activity: New Members 2 Visit Your Group Start a New Topic Subscribe to the free online journal for TCM at Times http://www.chinesemedicinetimes.com Help build the world's largest online encyclopedia for Chinese medicine and acupuncture, click, http://www.chinesemedicinetimes.com/wiki/CMTpedia and adjust accordingly. Please consider the environment and only print this message if absolutely necessary. lS3nntZQS+DyAOMfNVnAHVCx0toeo3XmiW3xLD JvjCttVhx6SD8f70PFjpESin2OGt6A7abbyOpR5VICY/IaZeFOpPwVaS4Ceha5HDp0caxZe09L8H 1c96Njaumyd1E/VJNO1cwHHlyNyVUjnFUyQVcAJTtm/SIFtdRMkjoI1wYwcZNBcGFxunZP19oFle VYkDMowmQFP3qthJLdyyMl3FHphldQZVyu4GrbiTVEZ7i0yIrYw2/wCY5OTn7VFnbuaBWs67e6Nc IjTRmOIblAOaq39gJSdnuleIMWrK0jMTKOCAeMe2alOy8Vatk8JNJb/iD5fmY4CtmrNHNcUAb2a6 /GAk4eQ4wT2qe+jsONSbt9Gyyf8Ay68UBSpPJbbxXba5CvJ/lCdtq1zPauisAS3Hq/eoREZBdfOe KMlFJ2jNTTCCB0pAblMLEefdgRmvU4c58/pDKmkzXCCNYsIOWI+aNKN8lkH9A0a486NVbkdx8UH2 yHGx+6d0ueNlw0ePcH2NEjGa6OV9DRHaiaIq8a4Hcr2o2LdzuGVPaiDNoUF1LuGHQjYQx/L966MN 0ifftlUeJYs9P6uurCKIMsCRjOPlFP8AqawvWcvt6l4/qv8Aoj6D6Do1k00Mj/f/AKsWW0S3a488 KFzyB2x96xpZGehhpUuDfBcfhlOCQq8ihvJQ6sNdGsFbtS8hO49hVZT3KiXBrlmVpppsIWkR5U3k e4xilpdjONELWdPh1FCs8pkLjAye1TFc2HWRp0+iuNe6ct9M1NthV+e/7VWbHMjThcCFpmlfi7GZ tu0sw7UXdLwLJ/ZL0npVbFnd7pxliSuaqCnGMiRe30EMbpuMnsC3tVt3BX2qjwS9Ggs3td6DdN8q eRUqYJRd8mXUWjzX4CRrtRl7E96rOUrGYtJUK1x4J2+sS5nypY/mHfNVqT4DYpqNsxs/DDT9CVzN PIwg7EtipjibYnqs+JK/Ij+L31CaF4cae5ubpJ0UYKqckCtHBhPCeqeq7b5KH1T/ABBemtH6hhuU sY72OL8uzIKg/tTiw8nkc/rUnLjoLXP1waH1cZbyNGgdBvVJZMq/H5O1Mx0oP/Eck4cFb6Z/iZXt x1NJZ3Qt2sraYlUXKrGAcY7c0SOmXJk5PUckZ2K/1beP1l416XpaJDaweRunXy09R4+f3pbJj2nv /RfVZZIbJHNupxKhAOMkermhHrZq1uB00QBJT2HNFh4FJ9mnGZs/Gafh5F8jVmO4Z+e370aD5Es7 44I19JiNskEZ7UzAUl0LWqFXRzjHFWfYB9ixekbuO3NShPVeA94SRluoZCvZRz/eldXKomj6Q1uO hfDORo _______________ Hotmail: Free, trusted and rich email service. http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/201469228/direct/01/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 4, 2010 Report Share Posted February 4, 2010 I too have Lonnie's books and am the very happy owner of a signed copy of Nourishing Destiny. I agree also that the price is a drop in the bucket of blood sweat and tears it takes to produce a book, especially one so forward in time. Anyone who has taken on the task of writing a book would never allow Liver 3 stagnation to fire off like that! Sincerely, Patricia Jordan DVM,CVA,CTCVM & Herbology Chinese Traditional Medicine eckdclark Thu, 4 Feb 2010 09:39:58 -0700 RE: Re: Nourishing Destiny Switch to: Text-Only, Daily Digest • Un • Terms of Use .. _______________ Your E-mail and More On-the-Go. Get Windows Live Hotmail Free. http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/201469229/direct/01/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 4, 2010 Report Share Posted February 4, 2010 Lonny. thanks for the info, however, I also have a book in process, it's in press with SUNY, due out later this year. I know all about the thousands of hours of the labor of love and, No, I would not expect to earn any money from an academic book, the very idea is naive. I buy over $1000 worth of books a year, and I routinely get everything used, and most of them I resell within a year. I have not found that more interestesing books are more expensive, the notion of " you get what you pay for " simply does not apply here, because one's appreciation and valuing of a book is highly subjective. The value of a book lies in its content, which is unaffected by it's " used " status. Somebody offered me a used copy and I intend to purchase it. Regards, Angela Pfaffenberger, Ph.D. angelapfa www.InnerhealthSalem.com Phone: 503 364 3022 - Lonny Chinese Medicine Thursday, February 04, 2010 4:55 AM Re: Nourishing Destiny Chinese Medicine , " Angela Pfaffenberger, PH.D. " <angelapfa wrote: > > Does someone have a used copy of " Nourishing Destiny " Laying around that they want to sell? I'd like to take a look at it but it's just ridiculously over-priced. Lonny: Angela, the book you refer to took 15 years to write and more thousands of hours than I could count. It was a labor of love with no guarantee that I'd ever make a penny from it. It was entirely self financed as it was rejected by the the first 40 publishers I sent it to as having " no commercial potential " ( " there is no market for this " ). The build on Nourishing Destiny is the best in the business with the highest quality paper and binding money can buy short of an archival art book. With proper care it will last lifetimes. This compared to many books at nearly twice the price with glued in pages that fall out after a year or so. Both my texts are priced 25-40% below comparable texts in the field. I think your assessment is harsh and lacks the gratitude that a professional should exhibit to the hard work and sacrifice of those of us who have given our lives to advancing the profession. What it takes to produce a work such as this is unimaginable to those who have not done it. If you send me your address, I'll send you a copy of the book and you can mail me a check for whatever you think its worth. Straight Ahead, Lonny Jarrett Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 4, 2010 Report Share Posted February 4, 2010 I don't understand. I just checked on Lonny's website and the book is listed for $89. That is practically free. Most Chinese Med books are 3 to 4 to 5 times that in cost? Whats the problem? Chinese Medicine , " Angela Pfaffenberger, PH.D. " <angelapfa wrote: > > Lonny. thanks for the info, however, I also have a book in process, it's in press with SUNY, due out later this year. I know all about the thousands of hours of the labor of love and, No, I would not expect to earn any money from an academic book, the very idea is naive. > I buy over $1000 worth of books a year, and I routinely get everything used, and most of them I resell within a year. I have not found that more interestesing books are more expensive, the notion of " you get what you pay for " simply does not apply here, because one's appreciation and valuing of a book is highly subjective. The value of a book lies in its content, which is unaffected by it's " used " status. > Somebody offered me a used copy and I intend to purchase it. > > Regards, > Angela Pfaffenberger, Ph.D. > > angelapfa > > www.InnerhealthSalem.com > > Phone: 503 364 3022 > - > Lonny > Chinese Medicine > Thursday, February 04, 2010 4:55 AM > Re: Nourishing Destiny > > > > > > Chinese Medicine , " Angela Pfaffenberger, PH.D. " <angelapfa@> wrote: > > > > Does someone have a used copy of " Nourishing Destiny " Laying around that they want to sell? I'd like to take a look at it but it's just ridiculously over-priced. > > Lonny: Angela, the book you refer to took 15 years to write and more thousands of hours than I could count. It was a labor of love with no guarantee that I'd ever make a penny from it. It was entirely self financed as it was rejected by the the first 40 publishers I sent it to as having " no commercial potential " ( " there is no market for this " ). > > The build on Nourishing Destiny is the best in the business with the highest quality paper and binding money can buy short of an archival art book. With proper care it will last lifetimes. This compared to many books at nearly twice the price with glued in pages that fall out after a year or so. Both my texts are priced 25-40% below comparable texts in the field. > > I think your assessment is harsh and lacks the gratitude that a professional should exhibit to the hard work and sacrifice of those of us who have given our lives to advancing the profession. What it takes to produce a work such as this is unimaginable to those who have not done it. > > If you send me your address, I'll send you a copy of the book and you can mail me a check for whatever you think its worth. > > Straight Ahead, Lonny Jarrett > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 4, 2010 Report Share Posted February 4, 2010 Angela, You certainly don't " get what you pay for " because, as I pointed out, my book is priced at least 25% below comparable texts and has a significantly better quality build then those costing twice as much. I also, have no issue with you trying to save money by buying a used copy. What I do take exception to is your assertion that the book is " ridiculously overpriced " . It's an assertion that's both highly inaccurate and beneath you. Regards, Lonny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 5, 2010 Report Share Posted February 5, 2010 I need a copy of the book too. ... because I've repeatedly given my copies to friends over the years. $89 is like one treatment session or 25 cents / page. It's all perspective. K .. > > > -- "" www.tcmreview.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 5, 2010 Report Share Posted February 5, 2010 Lonny I just wanted to say that I personally shook my head thinking what an immense effort both books must have been.althogh I am not in agreement with everything in both books I am blown away by the sharing spirit which comes throgh every page so thankyou Ray ford Sent from my iPhone On 04/02/2010, at 11:55 PM, " Lonny " <Revolution wrote: > > > Chinese Medicine , " Angela > Pfaffenberger, PH.D. " <angelapfa wrote: > > > > Does someone have a used copy of " Nourishing Destiny " Laying > around that they want to sell? I'd like to take a look at it but > it's just ridiculously over-priced. > > Lonny: Angela, the book you refer to took 15 years to write and more > thousands of hours than I could count. It was a labor of love with > no guarantee that I'd ever make a penny from it. It was entirely > self financed as it was rejected by the the first 40 publishers I > sent it to as having " no commercial potential " ( " there is no market > for this " ). > > The build on Nourishing Destiny is the best in the business with the > highest quality paper and binding money can buy short of an archival > art book. With proper care it will last lifetimes. This compared to > many books at nearly twice the price with glued in pages that fall > out after a year or so. Both my texts are priced 25-40% below > comparable texts in the field. > > I think your assessment is harsh and lacks the gratitude that a > professional should exhibit to the hard work and sacrifice of those > of us who have given our lives to advancing the profession. What it > takes to produce a work such as this is unimaginable to those who > have not done it. > > If you send me your address, I'll send you a copy of the book and > you can mail me a check for whatever you think its worth. > > Straight Ahead, Lonny Jarrett > > > Reply to sender | Reply to group > Messages in this topic (4) > RECENT ACTIVITY: New Members 2 > Visit Your Group Start a New Topic > Subscribe to the free online journal for TCM at > Times http://www.chinesemedicinetimes.com > > Help build the world's largest online encyclopedia for Chinese > medicine and acupuncture, click, http://www.chinesemedicinetimes.com/wiki/CMTpedia > > > and adjust accordingly. > > Messages are the property of the author. Any duplication outside the > group requires prior permission from the author. > > Please consider the environment and only print this message if > absolutely necessary. > lS3nntZQS+DyAOMfNVnAHVCx0toeo3XmiW3xLD > JvjCttVhx6SD8f70PFjpESin2OGt6A7abbyOpR5VICY/ > IaZeFOpPwVaS4Ceha5HDp0caxZe09L8H 1c96Njaumyd1E/ > VJNO1cwHHlyNyVUjnFUyQVcAJTtm/SIFtdRMkjoI1wYwcZNBcGFxunZP19oFle > VYkDMowmQFP3qthJLdyyMl3FHphldQZVyu4GrbiTVEZ7i0yIrYw2/ > wCY5OTn7VFnbuaBWs67e6Nc > IjTRmOIblAOaq39gJSdnuleIMWrK0jMTKOCAeMe2alOy8Vatk8JNJb/ > iD5fmY4CtmrNHNcUAb2a6 /GAk4eQ4wT2qe > +jsONSbt9Gyyf8Ay68UBSpPJbbxXba5CvJ/lCdtq1zPauisAS3Hq/eoREZBdfOe > KMlFJ2jNTTCCB0pAblMLEefdgRmvU4c58/pDKmkzXCCNYsIOWI > +aNKN8lkH9A0a486NVbkdx8UH2 yHGx > +6d0ueNlw0ePcH2NEjGa6OV9DRHaiaIq8a4Hcr2o2LdzuGVPaiDNoUF1LuGHQjYQx/ > L966MN 0ifftlUeJYs9P6uurCKIMsCRjOPlFP8AqawvWcvt6l4/qv8Aoj6D6Do1k00Mj/ > f/AKsWW0S3a488 > KFzyB2x96xpZGehhpUuDfBcfhlOCQq8ihvJQ6sNdGsFbtS8hO49hVZT3KiXBrlmVpppsIWkR5U3k > e4xilpdjONELWdPh1FCs8pkLjAye1TFc2HWRp0+iuNe6ct9M1NthV+e/ > 7VWbHMjThcCFpmlfi7GZ tu0sw7UXdLwLJ/ > ZL0npVbFnd7pxliSuaqCnGMiRe30EMbpuMnsC3tVt3BX2qjwS9Ggs3td6DdN8q > eRUqYJRd8mXUWjzX4CRrtRl7E96rOUrGYtJUK1x4J2+sS5nypY/mHfNVqT4DYpqNsxs/ > DDT9CVzN PIwg7EtipjibYnqs+JK/Ij > +L31CaF4cae5ubpJ0UYKqckCtHBhPCeqeq7b5KH1T/ABBemtH6hhuU sY72OL8uzIKg/ > tTiw8nkc/rUnLjoLXP1waH1cZbyNGgdBvVJZMq/H5O1Mx0oP/Eck4cFb6Z/iZXt > x1NJZ3Qt2sraYlUXKrGAcY7c0SOmXJk5PUckZ2K/ > 1beP1l416XpaJDaweRunXy09R4+f3pbJj2nv / > RfVZZIbJHNupxKhAOMkermhHrZq1uB00QBJT2HNFh4FJ9mnGZs/Gafh5F8jVmO4Z > +e370aD5Es7 > 44I19JiNskEZ7UzAUl0LWqFXRzjHFWfYB9ixekbuO3NShPVeA94SRluoZCvZRz/ > eldXKomj6Q1uO hfDORo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 5, 2010 Report Share Posted February 5, 2010 Ray: although I am not in agreement with everything in both books. Lonny: Hi Ray, I'm not in agreement with everything in both books either. The first one came out 10 years ago and that's a long time ago! Things have moved on quite a bit since I wrote them. I appreciate your kind words, thank you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 5, 2010 Report Share Posted February 5, 2010 Angela: I would not expect to earn any money from an academic book, the very idea is naive. Lonny: No, the idea isn't naive. People who sacrifice, take risks, and do good works should be compensated for their efforts. We have a potentially noble profession and should value the good works and success of others. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 5, 2010 Report Share Posted February 5, 2010 On the recommendation of a practitioner I respected, I purchased Lonny's books when in my second year of OM school. With what little time I had to study them, I found them very helpful and mind expanding. Then when returning for my 4th year, Fed Ex lost one of the boxes I shipped, which contained those books, along with many even more expensive books that were " required " reading. A caring friend purchased Nourishing Destiny for me as a gift. This was then stolen from me during my final year. I am now in my second year of building my practice, and still have Lonny's books on my wish list. I will replace them someday, they are worth it. Or...perhaps it is not my destiny? Julie Chinese Medicine , " Lonny " <Revolution wrote: > > > > Chinese Medicine , " Angela Pfaffenberger, PH.D. " <angelapfa@> wrote: > > > > Does someone have a used copy of " Nourishing Destiny " Laying around that they want to sell? I'd like to take a look at it but it's just ridiculously over-priced. > > Lonny: Angela, the book you refer to took 15 years to write and more thousands of hours than I could count. It was a labor of love with no guarantee that I'd ever make a penny from it. It was entirely self financed as it was rejected by the the first 40 publishers I sent it to as having " no commercial potential " ( " there is no market for this " ). > > The build on Nourishing Destiny is the best in the business with the highest quality paper and binding money can buy short of an archival art book. With proper care it will last lifetimes. This compared to many books at nearly twice the price with glued in pages that fall out after a year or so. Both my texts are priced 25-40% below comparable texts in the field. > > I think your assessment is harsh and lacks the gratitude that a professional should exhibit to the hard work and sacrifice of those of us who have given our lives to advancing the profession. What it takes to produce a work such as this is unimaginable to those who have not done it. > > If you send me your address, I'll send you a copy of the book and you can mail me a check for whatever you think its worth. > > Straight Ahead, Lonny Jarrett > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 5, 2010 Report Share Posted February 5, 2010 I find this whole discussion very weird. --- Angela: I would not expect to earn any money from an academic book, the very idea is naive. Lonny: No, the idea isn't naive. People who sacrifice, take risks, and do good works should be compensated for their efforts. We have a potentially noble profession and should value the good works and success of others. --- ________________________________ Hugo Ramiro http://middlemedicine.wordpress.com http://www.middlemedicine.org Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 6, 2010 Report Share Posted February 6, 2010 If you would not be forgotten as soon as you are dead, either write things worth reading or do things worth writing. Benny Franklin Lonny Jarrett won't be forgotten. Chinese Medicine , " Julie " <julie wrote: > > On the recommendation of a practitioner I respected, I purchased Lonny's books when in my second year of OM school. With what little time I had to study them, I found them very helpful and mind expanding. Then when returning for my 4th year, Fed Ex lost one of the boxes I shipped, which contained those books, along with many even more expensive books that were " required " reading. A caring friend purchased Nourishing Destiny for me as a gift. This was then stolen from me during my final year. I am now in my second year of building my practice, and still have Lonny's books on my wish list. I will replace them someday, they are worth it. Or...perhaps it is not my destiny? > > Julie > > Chinese Medicine , " Lonny " <Revolution@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Chinese Medicine , " Angela Pfaffenberger, PH.D. " <angelapfa@> wrote: > > > > > > Does someone have a used copy of " Nourishing Destiny " Laying around that they want to sell? I'd like to take a look at it but it's just ridiculously over-priced. > > > > Lonny: Angela, the book you refer to took 15 years to write and more thousands of hours than I could count. It was a labor of love with no guarantee that I'd ever make a penny from it. It was entirely self financed as it was rejected by the the first 40 publishers I sent it to as having " no commercial potential " ( " there is no market for this " ). > > > > The build on Nourishing Destiny is the best in the business with the highest quality paper and binding money can buy short of an archival art book. With proper care it will last lifetimes. This compared to many books at nearly twice the price with glued in pages that fall out after a year or so. Both my texts are priced 25-40% below comparable texts in the field. > > > > I think your assessment is harsh and lacks the gratitude that a professional should exhibit to the hard work and sacrifice of those of us who have given our lives to advancing the profession. What it takes to produce a work such as this is unimaginable to those who have not done it. > > > > If you send me your address, I'll send you a copy of the book and you can mail me a check for whatever you think its worth. > > > > Straight Ahead, Lonny Jarrett > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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