Guest guest Posted February 9, 2010 Report Share Posted February 9, 2010 Hi John, thanks for the info, I may end up buying the book. It seems that the requirements for plague are always the same. It is interesting how you note that the conquerors/colonists did not receive any new disease - either they had really great wei qi, or the people in the new world weren't in the habit of creating infectious environments. On a sidenote: there is no doubt that Columbus discovered nothing. He even had a portuguese map of America before he set out on his voyage of discovery. And the portuguese got it from elsewhere. In any case, China had been visiting America / the New World regularly since at least the Shang Dynasty. These were not voyages of conquest, unlike Columbus'. Interesting how the voyages of conquest were associated with plagues. We forget, I think, that the europeans did nto even understand scurvy. European sea travellers were generally ill people, like rats themselves. I also don't see why the smallpox blanket exchange is controversial. Genocide was committed either way, and there is no reason to believe the colonists' denials (considering they were genociders) over First Nations' assertions. Hugo ________________________________ Hugo Ramiro http://middlemedicine.wordpress.com http://www.middlemedicine.org ________________________________ <johnkokko Chinese Medicine Tue, 9 February, 2010 12:40:40 Re: The Ht/Ki axis & opening the diaphram Hugo, This specific topic is not discussed in the book, but half of the book is dedicated to Asia's participation in plagues throughout history. The appendix in the back of the book is a reprint of Dr. Joseph Cha's study of Epidemics in China and lists epidemics in China from 243 BCE to 1911 CE. The line-by-line list extends to 10 pages in the book. Every sentence of the book is an " ah ha " kind of moment... packed with insights into our world history and evolution as a species. The conquerors/ colonists of the New world did not receive any new disease, except some believe that a strong strain of " syphilis " which possibly came from the New world and was carried back to China for instance, as the only entirely new disease to pop up in China after the New world colonization period up until the 20th century. Epidemiological evidence shows that there were no major plague breakouts in the New world, but people died from famine and crop failure in epidemic numbers (Aztec) pg. 177 Some later scholars, believe that there might have been a TB infection predating Columbus and a hemorrhagic fever prevalent in drought years called cocolizti. It so happened that the indigenous population might have been hit with this fever at the same time as they were confronted with smallpox, typhus, influenza, measles, malaria, mumps, cholera, bubonic plague, yellow fever, pertussis, TB etc... wiping out over 90% of the indigenous populations. There weren't the kind of human-to-human plagues that the Old World had seen, because domestication of large pack animals was secluded to the high mountains in small numbers (wild llamas and alpacas), not in the heavily populated-densely packed scenario of horses and cattle in the Old World. This is also mentioned in " Guns, Germs and Steel " by Jared Diamond. So, we can infer that if the Chinese definitely came to the New World predating Columbus, that they did not bring on the wide-sweeping epidemics that later colonists would bring and possibly in some instances, deliberately poison the indigenous population with as a form of genocidal biological weaponry. For instance, possible well-water contamination and the famous Fort Pitt smallpox blanket gift exchange are controversial. K On Mon, Feb 8, 2010 at 11:24 AM, Hugo Ramiro <subincor wrote: > > > Hi John, the black plague is a good example. But it killed many Chinese as > well, so it is not the one-sided infection that I am describing, that seems > to occur after first contact of europeans with others. Does " plagues and > people " mention contact between China and America and resultant plagues? > > > Thanks, > Hugo > > ________________________________ > Hugo Ramiro > http://middlemedicine.wordpress.com > http://www.middlemedicine.org > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 10, 2010 Report Share Posted February 10, 2010 Just to be clear, there were no major plagues in the Americas predating Columbus, according to epidemiological research : " Plagues and People " by William McNeill The only epidemic that the conquerors/colonists received might have been a strong strain of syphilis from the native peoples. However, the Chinese had experienced almost every disease that Euro-Asia could develop over millennia of close quartering of cattle, goats, horses, pigs and other domestic animals. If the Chinese had really visited the Americas many times since the Shang dynasty, it would be logical that this would translate to infected populations in the Americas, as well and in turn, resistance and immunity to the diseases that did them in. Is their any solid evidence that the Chinese visited " Turtle Island " since the Shang dynasty? Gavin Menzies' book " 1421 " has been debunked by many scholars, including the top historians in China. K On Tue, Feb 9, 2010 at 1:36 PM, Hugo Ramiro <subincor wrote: > > > Hi John, thanks for the info, I may end up buying the book. It seems that > the requirements for plague are always the same. It is interesting how you > note that the conquerors/colonists did not receive any new disease - either > they had really great wei qi, or the people in the new world weren't in the > habit of creating infectious environments. > > On a sidenote: there is no doubt that Columbus discovered nothing. He even > had a portuguese map of America before he set out on his voyage of > discovery. And the portuguese got it from elsewhere. In any case, China had > been visiting America / the New World regularly since at least the Shang > Dynasty. These were not voyages of conquest, unlike Columbus'. Interesting > how the voyages of conquest were associated with plagues. We forget, I > think, that the europeans did nto even understand scurvy. European sea > travellers were generally ill people, like rats themselves. > > I also don't see why the smallpox blanket exchange is controversial. > Genocide was committed either way, and there is no reason to believe the > colonists' denials (considering they were genociders) over First Nations' > assertions. > > Hugo > > ________________________________ > Hugo Ramiro > http://middlemedicine.wordpress.com > http://www.middlemedicine.org > > ________________________________ > <johnkokko <johnkokko%40gmail.com>> > To: Chinese Medicine <Chinese Medicine%40yaho\ ogroups.com> > Tue, 9 February, 2010 12:40:40 > Re: The Ht/Ki axis & opening the diaphram > > Hugo, > This specific topic is not discussed in the book, but half of the book is > dedicated to Asia's participation in plagues throughout history. The > appendix in the back of the book is a reprint of Dr. Joseph Cha's study of > Epidemics in China and lists epidemics in China from 243 BCE to 1911 CE. > The line-by-line list extends to 10 pages in the book. > > Every sentence of the book is an " ah ha " kind of moment... packed with > insights into our world history and evolution as a species. The conquerors/ > colonists of the New world did not receive any new disease, except some > believe that a strong strain of " syphilis " which possibly came from the New > world and was carried back to China for instance, as the only entirely new > disease to pop up in China after the New world colonization period up until > the 20th century. Epidemiological evidence shows that there were no major > plague breakouts in the New world, but people died from famine and crop > failure in epidemic numbers (Aztec) pg. 177 Some later scholars, believe > that there might have been a TB infection predating Columbus and a > hemorrhagic fever prevalent in drought years called cocolizti. It so > happened that the indigenous population might have been hit with this fever > at the same time as they were confronted with smallpox, typhus, influenza, > measles, malaria, mumps, cholera, bubonic plague, yellow fever, pertussis, > TB etc... wiping out over 90% of the indigenous populations. > > There weren't the kind of human-to-human plagues that the Old World had > seen, because domestication of large pack animals was secluded to the high > mountains in small numbers (wild llamas and alpacas), not in the heavily > populated-densely packed scenario of horses and cattle in the Old World. > This is also mentioned in " Guns, Germs and Steel " by Jared Diamond. > So, we can infer that if the Chinese definitely came to the New World > predating Columbus, that they did not bring on the wide-sweeping epidemics > that later colonists would bring and possibly in some instances, > deliberately poison the indigenous population with as a form of genocidal > biological weaponry. For instance, possible well-water contamination and > the famous Fort Pitt smallpox blanket gift exchange are controversial. > > K > > On Mon, Feb 8, 2010 at 11:24 AM, Hugo Ramiro <subincor<subincor%40>> > wrote: > > > > > > > Hi John, the black plague is a good example. But it killed many Chinese > as > > well, so it is not the one-sided infection that I am describing, that > seems > > to occur after first contact of europeans with others. Does " plagues and > > people " mention contact between China and America and resultant plagues? > > > > > > Thanks, > > Hugo > > > > ________________________________ > > Hugo Ramiro > > http://middlemedicine.wordpress.com > > http://www.middlemedicine.org > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 10, 2010 Report Share Posted February 10, 2010 Yes John. There is not only overwhelming evidence but also " reverse evidence " such as the silly notion that the Europeans did everything first, like the printing press. If the Chinese were experienced seafarers, they were likely not going to be like the incompetents that the europeans were, meaning cesspools of infection. Strong wei qi meets strong wei qi = no infection. We should know that from CM. The other possibility is that biowarfare was a commonly used technique by Europeans. As far as Gavin Menzies, don't forget that the whole of Chinese medicine has been debunked by science, including top chinese scientists. Ever hear the story about the african-american cop? In latin-american spanish we might say " cholito pantalon blanco " . In any case, it is *also* true that many top Chinese historians support Gaving Menzies. Yin Yang, right? Debunked is a very tricky word. I'm really surprised at this...debunked? In any case, for example, DNA evidence can't really be debunked. Chinese DNA all over the pacific and the americas, more so in central america. Certain scholars are just pissy that they were wrong. The myth of 1492 and the manifest destiny of white man's burden is a powerful one, as blowhard as it may be. Hugo ________________________________ Hugo Ramiro http://middlemedicine.wordpress.com http://www.middlemedicine.org ________________________________ <johnkokko Chinese Medicine Tue, 9 February, 2010 21:20:29 Re: Plagues Just to be clear, there were no major plagues in the Americas predating Columbus, according to epidemiological research : " Plagues and People " by William McNeill The only epidemic that the conquerors/colonists received might have been a strong strain of syphilis from the native peoples. However, the Chinese had experienced almost every disease that Euro-Asia could develop over millennia of close quartering of cattle, goats, horses, pigs and other domestic animals. If the Chinese had really visited the Americas many times since the Shang dynasty, it would be logical that this would translate to infected populations in the Americas, as well and in turn, resistance and immunity to the diseases that did them in. Is their any solid evidence that the Chinese visited " Turtle Island " since the Shang dynasty? Gavin Menzies' book " 1421 " has been debunked by many scholars, including the top historians in China. K On Tue, Feb 9, 2010 at 1:36 PM, Hugo Ramiro <subincor wrote: > > > Hi John, thanks for the info, I may end up buying the book. It seems that > the requirements for plague are always the same. It is interesting how you > note that the conquerors/colonists did not receive any new disease - either > they had really great wei qi, or the people in the new world weren't in the > habit of creating infectious environments. > > On a sidenote: there is no doubt that Columbus discovered nothing. He even > had a portuguese map of America before he set out on his voyage of > discovery. And the portuguese got it from elsewhere. In any case, China had > been visiting America / the New World regularly since at least the Shang > Dynasty. These were not voyages of conquest, unlike Columbus'. Interesting > how the voyages of conquest were associated with plagues. We forget, I > think, that the europeans did nto even understand scurvy. European sea > travellers were generally ill people, like rats themselves. > > I also don't see why the smallpox blanket exchange is controversial. > Genocide was committed either way, and there is no reason to believe the > colonists' denials (considering they were genociders) over First Nations' > assertions. > > Hugo > > ________________________________ > Hugo Ramiro > http://middlemedicine.wordpress.com > http://www.middlemedicine.org > > ________________________________ > <johnkokko <johnkokko%40gmail.com>> > To: Chinese Medicine <Chinese Medicine%40yaho\ ogroups.com> > Tue, 9 February, 2010 12:40:40 > Re: The Ht/Ki axis & opening the diaphram > > Hugo, > This specific topic is not discussed in the book, but half of the book is > dedicated to Asia's participation in plagues throughout history. The > appendix in the back of the book is a reprint of Dr. Joseph Cha's study of > Epidemics in China and lists epidemics in China from 243 BCE to 1911 CE. > The line-by-line list extends to 10 pages in the book. > > Every sentence of the book is an " ah ha " kind of moment... packed with > insights into our world history and evolution as a species. The conquerors/ > colonists of the New world did not receive any new disease, except some > believe that a strong strain of " syphilis " which possibly came from the New > world and was carried back to China for instance, as the only entirely new > disease to pop up in China after the New world colonization period up until > the 20th century. Epidemiological evidence shows that there were no major > plague breakouts in the New world, but people died from famine and crop > failure in epidemic numbers (Aztec) pg. 177 Some later scholars, believe > that there might have been a TB infection predating Columbus and a > hemorrhagic fever prevalent in drought years called cocolizti. It so > happened that the indigenous population might have been hit with this fever > at the same time as they were confronted with smallpox, typhus, influenza, > measles, malaria, mumps, cholera, bubonic plague, yellow fever, pertussis, > TB etc... wiping out over 90% of the indigenous populations. > > There weren't the kind of human-to-human plagues that the Old World had > seen, because domestication of large pack animals was secluded to the high > mountains in small numbers (wild llamas and alpacas), not in the heavily > populated-densely packed scenario of horses and cattle in the Old World. > This is also mentioned in " Guns, Germs and Steel " by Jared Diamond. > So, we can infer that if the Chinese definitely came to the New World > predating Columbus, that they did not bring on the wide-sweeping epidemics > that later colonists would bring and possibly in some instances, > deliberately poison the indigenous population with as a form of genocidal > biological weaponry. For instance, possible well-water contamination and > the famous Fort Pitt smallpox blanket gift exchange are controversial. > > K > > On Mon, Feb 8, 2010 at 11:24 AM, Hugo Ramiro <subincor<subincor%40>> > wrote: > > > > > > > Hi John, the black plague is a good example. But it killed many Chinese > as > > well, so it is not the one-sided infection that I am describing, that > seems > > to occur after first contact of europeans with others. Does " plagues and > > people " mention contact between China and America and resultant plagues? > > > > > > Thanks, > > Hugo > > > > ________________________________ > > Hugo Ramiro > > http://middlemedicine.wordpress.com > > http://www.middlemedicine.org > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 10, 2010 Report Share Posted February 10, 2010 My father-in-law is an archaeologist, and this thread brought to mind his mentioning stone boat anchors found on the West Coast of the US that were thought to be Asian in origin. Anyway, I don't know the details of this debate, although I did read Gavin Menzies book. I quickly tried to look up the stone boat anchors and was reading this site http://www.cristobalcolondeibiza.com/2eng/2eng15.htm. Not sure about its overall veracity, but the bit about Asian leukemia in pre-Columbian Chilean mummies was interesting. Sean On Feb 10, 2010, at 8:09 AM, Hugo Ramiro wrote: > Yes John. There is not only overwhelming evidence but also " reverse evidence " such as the silly notion that the Europeans did everything first, like the printing press. If the Chinese were experienced seafarers, they were likely not going to be like the incompetents that the europeans were, meaning cesspools of infection. Strong wei qi meets strong wei qi = no infection. We should know that from CM. The other possibility is that biowarfare was a commonly used technique by Europeans. > > As far as Gavin Menzies, don't forget that the whole of Chinese medicine has been debunked by science, including top chinese scientists. Ever hear the story about the african-american cop? In latin-american spanish we might say " cholito pantalon blanco " . In any case, it is *also* true that many top Chinese historians support Gaving Menzies. Yin Yang, right? Debunked is a very tricky word. > > I'm really surprised at this...debunked? In any case, for example, DNA evidence can't really be debunked. Chinese DNA all over the pacific and the americas, more so in central america. Certain scholars are just pissy that they were wrong. The myth of 1492 and the manifest destiny of white man's burden is a powerful one, as blowhard as it may be. > > Hugo > > ________________________________ > Hugo Ramiro > http://middlemedicine.wordpress.com > http://www.middlemedicine.org > > ________________________________ > <johnkokko > Chinese Medicine > Tue, 9 February, 2010 21:20:29 > Re: Plagues > > Just to be clear, there were no major plagues in the Americas predating > Columbus, according to epidemiological research : " Plagues and People " by > William McNeill > The only epidemic that the conquerors/colonists received might have been a > strong strain of syphilis from the native peoples. > > However, the Chinese had experienced almost every disease that Euro-Asia > could develop over millennia of close quartering of cattle, goats, horses, > pigs and other domestic animals. If the Chinese had really visited the > Americas many times since the Shang dynasty, it would be logical that this > would translate to infected populations in the Americas, as well and in > turn, resistance and immunity to the diseases that did them in. > > Is their any solid evidence that the Chinese visited " Turtle Island " since > the Shang dynasty? Gavin Menzies' book " 1421 " has been debunked by many > scholars, including the top historians in China. > > K > > On Tue, Feb 9, 2010 at 1:36 PM, Hugo Ramiro <subincor wrote: > > > > > > > Hi John, thanks for the info, I may end up buying the book. It seems that > > the requirements for plague are always the same. It is interesting how you > > note that the conquerors/colonists did not receive any new disease - either > > they had really great wei qi, or the people in the new world weren't in the > > habit of creating infectious environments. > > > > On a sidenote: there is no doubt that Columbus discovered nothing. He even > > had a portuguese map of America before he set out on his voyage of > > discovery. And the portuguese got it from elsewhere. In any case, China had > > been visiting America / the New World regularly since at least the Shang > > Dynasty. These were not voyages of conquest, unlike Columbus'. Interesting > > how the voyages of conquest were associated with plagues. We forget, I > > think, that the europeans did nto even understand scurvy. European sea > > travellers were generally ill people, like rats themselves. > > > > I also don't see why the smallpox blanket exchange is controversial. > > Genocide was committed either way, and there is no reason to believe the > > colonists' denials (considering they were genociders) over First Nations' > > assertions. > > > > Hugo > > > > ________________________________ > > Hugo Ramiro > > http://middlemedicine.wordpress.com > > http://www.middlemedicine.org > > > > ________________________________ > > <johnkokko <johnkokko%40gmail.com>> > > To: Chinese Medicine <Chinese Medicine%40yaho\ ogroups.com> > > Tue, 9 February, 2010 12:40:40 > > Re: The Ht/Ki axis & opening the diaphram > > > > Hugo, > > This specific topic is not discussed in the book, but half of the book is > > dedicated to Asia's participation in plagues throughout history. The > > appendix in the back of the book is a reprint of Dr. Joseph Cha's study of > > Epidemics in China and lists epidemics in China from 243 BCE to 1911 CE. > > The line-by-line list extends to 10 pages in the book. > > > > Every sentence of the book is an " ah ha " kind of moment... packed with > > insights into our world history and evolution as a species. The conquerors/ > > colonists of the New world did not receive any new disease, except some > > believe that a strong strain of " syphilis " which possibly came from the New > > world and was carried back to China for instance, as the only entirely new > > disease to pop up in China after the New world colonization period up until > > the 20th century. Epidemiological evidence shows that there were no major > > plague breakouts in the New world, but people died from famine and crop > > failure in epidemic numbers (Aztec) pg. 177 Some later scholars, believe > > that there might have been a TB infection predating Columbus and a > > hemorrhagic fever prevalent in drought years called cocolizti. It so > > happened that the indigenous population might have been hit with this fever > > at the same time as they were confronted with smallpox, typhus, influenza, > > measles, malaria, mumps, cholera, bubonic plague, yellow fever, pertussis, > > TB etc... wiping out over 90% of the indigenous populations. > > > > There weren't the kind of human-to-human plagues that the Old World had > > seen, because domestication of large pack animals was secluded to the high > > mountains in small numbers (wild llamas and alpacas), not in the heavily > > populated-densely packed scenario of horses and cattle in the Old World. > > This is also mentioned in " Guns, Germs and Steel " by Jared Diamond. > > So, we can infer that if the Chinese definitely came to the New World > > predating Columbus, that they did not bring on the wide-sweeping epidemics > > that later colonists would bring and possibly in some instances, > > deliberately poison the indigenous population with as a form of genocidal > > biological weaponry. For instance, possible well-water contamination and > > the famous Fort Pitt smallpox blanket gift exchange are controversial. > > > > K > > > > On Mon, Feb 8, 2010 at 11:24 AM, Hugo Ramiro <subincor<subincor%40>> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Hi John, the black plague is a good example. But it killed many Chinese > > as > > > well, so it is not the one-sided infection that I am describing, that > > seems > > > to occur after first contact of europeans with others. Does " plagues and > > > people " mention contact between China and America and resultant plagues? > > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > Hugo > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > Hugo Ramiro > > > http://middlemedicine.wordpress.com > > > http://www.middlemedicine.org > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 10, 2010 Report Share Posted February 10, 2010 Hi Sean, thank you for the link. I did read Gavin Menzies' books, and while there is a lot of new information in them, notably his p.o.v. as a submariner about how land looks when you are charting it from sea level, a lot of it is already known. For me it is just the resistance of the ego that prevents people from admitting the obvious. I remember being at a meeting with my teacher in the late nineties (I was just there to listen), at a largely ethnic chinese association meeting for internal martial arts and medical qigong, and at some point during the conversation there was laughter about how columbus had discovered america. This whole debate shares so many features with the debate about whether CM works, it's amazing. Thanks, Hugo ________________________________ Hugo Ramiro http://middlemedicine.wordpress.com http://www.middlemedicine.org ________________________________ Sean Doherty <sean Chinese Medicine Wed, 10 February, 2010 9:12:45 Re: Plagues My father-in-law is an archaeologist, and this thread brought to mind his mentioning stone boat anchors found on the West Coast of the US that were thought to be Asian in origin. Anyway, I don't know the details of this debate, although I did read Gavin Menzies book. I quickly tried to look up the stone boat anchors and was reading this site http://www.cristobalcolondeibiza.com/2eng/2eng15.htm. Not sure about its overall veracity, but the bit about Asian leukemia in pre-Columbian Chilean mummies was interesting. Sean On Feb 10, 2010, at 8:09 AM, Hugo Ramiro wrote: > Yes John. There is not only overwhelming evidence but also " reverse evidence " such as the silly notion that the Europeans did everything first, like the printing press. If the Chinese were experienced seafarers, they were likely not going to be like the incompetents that the europeans were, meaning cesspools of infection. Strong wei qi meets strong wei qi = no infection. We should know that from CM. The other possibility is that biowarfare was a commonly used technique by Europeans. > > As far as Gavin Menzies, don't forget that the whole of Chinese medicine has been debunked by science, including top chinese scientists. Ever hear the story about the african-american cop? In latin-american spanish we might say " cholito pantalon blanco " . In any case, it is *also* true that many top Chinese historians support Gaving Menzies. Yin Yang, right? Debunked is a very tricky word. > > I'm really surprised at this...debunked? In any case, for example, DNA evidence can't really be debunked. Chinese DNA all over the pacific and the americas, more so in central america. Certain scholars are just pissy that they were wrong. The myth of 1492 and the manifest destiny of white man's burden is a powerful one, as blowhard as it may be. > > Hugo > > ________________________________ > Hugo Ramiro > http://middlemedicine.wordpress.com > http://www.middlemedicine.org > > ________________________________ > <johnkokko > Chinese Medicine > Tue, 9 February, 2010 21:20:29 > Re: Plagues > > Just to be clear, there were no major plagues in the Americas predating > Columbus, according to epidemiological research : " Plagues and People " by > William McNeill > The only epidemic that the conquerors/colonists received might have been a > strong strain of syphilis from the native peoples. > > However, the Chinese had experienced almost every disease that Euro-Asia > could develop over millennia of close quartering of cattle, goats, horses, > pigs and other domestic animals. If the Chinese had really visited the > Americas many times since the Shang dynasty, it would be logical that this > would translate to infected populations in the Americas, as well and in > turn, resistance and immunity to the diseases that did them in. > > Is their any solid evidence that the Chinese visited " Turtle Island " since > the Shang dynasty? Gavin Menzies' book " 1421 " has been debunked by many > scholars, including the top historians in China. > > K > > On Tue, Feb 9, 2010 at 1:36 PM, Hugo Ramiro <subincor wrote: > > > > > > > Hi John, thanks for the info, I may end up buying the book. It seems that > > the requirements for plague are always the same. It is interesting how you > > note that the conquerors/colonists did not receive any new disease - either > > they had really great wei qi, or the people in the new world weren't in the > > habit of creating infectious environments. > > > > On a sidenote: there is no doubt that Columbus discovered nothing. He even > > had a portuguese map of America before he set out on his voyage of > > discovery. And the portuguese got it from elsewhere. In any case, China had > > been visiting America / the New World regularly since at least the Shang > > Dynasty. These were not voyages of conquest, unlike Columbus'. Interesting > > how the voyages of conquest were associated with plagues. We forget, I > > think, that the europeans did nto even understand scurvy. European sea > > travellers were generally ill people, like rats themselves. > > > > I also don't see why the smallpox blanket exchange is controversial. > > Genocide was committed either way, and there is no reason to believe the > > colonists' denials (considering they were genociders) over First Nations' > > assertions. > > > > Hugo > > > > ________________________________ > > Hugo Ramiro > > http://middlemedicine.wordpress.com > > http://www.middlemedicine.org > > > > ________________________________ > > <johnkokko <johnkokko%40gmail.com>> > > To: Chinese Medicine <Chinese Medicine%40yaho\ ogroups.com> > > Tue, 9 February, 2010 12:40:40 > > Re: The Ht/Ki axis & opening the diaphram > > > > Hugo, > > This specific topic is not discussed in the book, but half of the book is > > dedicated to Asia's participation in plagues throughout history. The > > appendix in the back of the book is a reprint of Dr. Joseph Cha's study of > > Epidemics in China and lists epidemics in China from 243 BCE to 1911 CE. > > The line-by-line list extends to 10 pages in the book. > > > > Every sentence of the book is an " ah ha " kind of moment... packed with > > insights into our world history and evolution as a species. The conquerors/ > > colonists of the New world did not receive any new disease, except some > > believe that a strong strain of " syphilis " which possibly came from the New > > world and was carried back to China for instance, as the only entirely new > > disease to pop up in China after the New world colonization period up until > > the 20th century. Epidemiological evidence shows that there were no major > > plague breakouts in the New world, but people died from famine and crop > > failure in epidemic numbers (Aztec) pg. 177 Some later scholars, believe > > that there might have been a TB infection predating Columbus and a > > hemorrhagic fever prevalent in drought years called cocolizti. It so > > happened that the indigenous population might have been hit with this fever > > at the same time as they were confronted with smallpox, typhus, influenza, > > measles, malaria, mumps, cholera, bubonic plague, yellow fever, pertussis, > > TB etc... wiping out over 90% of the indigenous populations. > > > > There weren't the kind of human-to-human plagues that the Old World had > > seen, because domestication of large pack animals was secluded to the high > > mountains in small numbers (wild llamas and alpacas), not in the heavily > > populated-densely packed scenario of horses and cattle in the Old World. > > This is also mentioned in " Guns, Germs and Steel " by Jared Diamond. > > So, we can infer that if the Chinese definitely came to the New World > > predating Columbus, that they did not bring on the wide-sweeping epidemics > > that later colonists would bring and possibly in some instances, > > deliberately poison the indigenous population with as a form of genocidal > > biological weaponry. For instance, possible well-water contamination and > > the famous Fort Pitt smallpox blanket gift exchange are controversial. > > > > K > > > > On Mon, Feb 8, 2010 at 11:24 AM, Hugo Ramiro <subincor<subincor%40>> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Hi John, the black plague is a good example. But it killed many Chinese > > as > > > well, so it is not the one-sided infection that I am describing, that > > seems > > > to occur after first contact of europeans with others. Does " plagues and > > > people " mention contact between China and America and resultant plagues? > > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > Hugo > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > Hugo Ramiro > > > http://middlemedicine.wordpress.com > > > http://www.middlemedicine.org > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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