Guest guest Posted February 15, 2010 Report Share Posted February 15, 2010 In TCM severe YIN/BLOOD deficiency with TOXINS. In western more like ulcer and/or cancer. Richard In a message dated 2/15/2010 11:14:09 A.M. Pacific Standard Time, subincor writes: Anybody want to give this one a shot? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 15, 2010 Report Share Posted February 15, 2010 A very interesting tongue. It looks like a deficiency case. There was no thick coat. Light coat with yellow ( a little heat may be from medication, drugs or chemicals, anything from ingestion... ), Pale tongue from deficiency, injury flesh ( Sp ), Sp controls the flesh. IF this is Sto / Sp ulcer, the tongue should be dry and probably thick coat....... What may happen to Sp ? Drug abused, alcohol or medication , who knows ? Only patient knows best. I doubt it , if this is from bacterial or viral infection. This may be mineral deficiency too, anything which may affect the Sp, the nutrient ( Qi & Blood ) that nourishes the flesh. Sp & Sto Qi , together, they produce Wei Qi and postnatal Qi. Postnatal Qi nourishes the body........ If this is a form of SP deficiency, it must be a chronic illness. Patient will experience fatigue, lethargy, shortness of breath, dizziness, or headache, itching , diarrhea or constipation, anemia , tinnitus , abdominal discomfort or dull pain, tingling or numbness of the extremities...................... Untreated will cause Liver deficiency with emotional distress, depression, and persistent headache or dizziness. This case must be referred to family physician immediately before seeing the patient the 2nd visit. If the pulse is thready and floating.......... CARE SHOULD BE HANDLED BY PHYSICIAN FIRST. Nam Nguyen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 16, 2010 Report Share Posted February 16, 2010 Hi Nam: Why would you say that the tongue presentation would *not* point to internal infection? I agree that it is a presentation rooted in deficiency. Just for everyone's info, I found this pic in the wilds of the internet, this is nto a patient of mine. Hugo ________________________________ Hugo Ramiro http://middlemedicine.wordpress.com http://www.middlemedicine.org Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 16, 2010 Report Share Posted February 16, 2010 Hi Bob, as you may have read, this is not a patient of mine. Stomach cancer was my first thought when I saw the pic, rooted in spleen qi deficiency with damp toxic heat in the middle warmer. I cannot feel sure in saying that it is truly chronic (several years or more) because of the lips, which are pale, but otherwise do not seem dry, withered, or chapped. Comments? Hugo ________________________________ Hugo Ramiro http://middlemedicine.wordpress.com http://www.middlemedicine.org ________________________________ " Bob Linde, AP, Herbalist " <boblindeherbalist Chinese Medicine Mon, 15 February, 2010 14:24:05 Re: Tongue Diagnosis I'm gonna go with infected tongue piercing to bleeding ulcer to stomach cancer....just a wee bit of heat there in the stomach..... do tell!? Be well, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 16, 2010 Report Share Posted February 16, 2010 Hi Stephen: I can't be sure what I would call it. I've never seen a tongue like this personally. I have seen bad ulcers on the sides and tip, but never in the centre, and I have also never seen severe ulcers with such a pale tongue body and pale lips. For this tongue I personally would not go the four levels route because the tongue is not red. I started thinking six divisions with a tai yin -> shao yin -> jue yin stage. Wu Mei tang? Hugo ________________________________ Hugo Ramiro http://middlemedicine.wordpress.com http://www.middlemedicine.org ________________________________ Stephen Bonzak <stephenbonzak " Chinese Medicine " <Chinese Medicine > Mon, 15 February, 2010 14:15:36 Re: Tongue Diagnosis Qi and blood aspect heat? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 16, 2010 Report Share Posted February 16, 2010 Hey Hugo....actually knowing that it is not a patient of yours, i'm going with my first thought of a piercing gone bad. No doubt there are other issues with a mix of def and excess as all of us are. But the worst part looks a tad fresh to me...an acute infection of the tongue....shame not to know the real details. Be well, Bob Robert Linde, AP, RH Professional Herbalists Training Program Acupuncture & Herbal Therapies 901 Central Ave St. Petersburg, FL 33705 www.acuherbals.com 727-551-0857 --- On Mon, 2/15/10, Hugo Ramiro <subincor wrote: Hugo Ramiro <subincor Re: Tongue Diagnosis Chinese Medicine Monday, February 15, 2010, 7:56 PM Â Hi Bob, as you may have read, this is not a patient of mine. Stomach cancer was my first thought when I saw the pic, rooted in spleen qi deficiency with damp toxic heat in the middle warmer. I cannot feel sure in saying that it is truly chronic (several years or more) because of the lips, which are pale, but otherwise do not seem dry, withered, or chapped. Comments? Hugo ____________ _________ _________ __ Hugo Ramiro http://middlemedici ne.wordpress. com http://www.middleme dicine.org ____________ _________ _________ __ " Bob Linde, AP, Herbalist " <boblindeherbalist@ > Mon, 15 February, 2010 14:24:05 Re: Tongue Diagnosis I'm gonna go with infected tongue piercing to bleeding ulcer to stomach cancer....just a wee bit of heat there in the stomach..... do tell!? Be well, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 16, 2010 Report Share Posted February 16, 2010 It looks like a surgical incision to remove a white maggot or parasite . In tongue anatomy there is none such a shape or color. Ed Ahmadi L.Ac Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 16, 2010 Report Share Posted February 16, 2010 I've seen a tongue like this on a patient with stomach cancer. .. the wound at the center wasn't as dramatic, but there was an ulcer at the center surrounded by a greasy yellow coating, and on a pale body. But as it says in scripture, " man doth not diagnose by tongue alone " . . . On Feb 15, 2010, at 5:24 PM, Hugo Ramiro wrote: > Hi Stephen: > > I can't be sure what I would call it. I've never seen a tongue like this personally. I have seen bad ulcers on the sides and tip, but never in the centre, and I have also never seen severe ulcers with such a pale tongue body and pale lips. > For this tongue I personally would not go the four levels route because the tongue is not red. I started thinking six divisions with a tai yin -> shao yin -> jue yin stage. Wu Mei tang? > > Hugo > > ________________________________ > Hugo Ramiro > http://middlemedicine.wordpress.com > http://www.middlemedicine.org > > ________________________________ > Stephen Bonzak <stephenbonzak > " Chinese Medicine " <Chinese Medicine > > Mon, 15 February, 2010 14:15:36 > Re: Tongue Diagnosis > > Qi and blood aspect heat? > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 18, 2010 Report Share Posted February 18, 2010 there are detailed explanation of each tongue cases with hundreds of pictures in the spcial part of Tongue Diagnosis - , but unfortunately it is written in Chinese. http://www.56.com/u45/v_NDU5NjgyNDI.html a Chinese medicine translator/interpretor will assist you if really neccessary. --- On Mon, 2/15/10, Nam Nguyen <dr_namnguyen58 wrote: Nam Nguyen <dr_namnguyen58 Tongue Diagnosis Chinese Medicine Monday, February 15, 2010, 2:26 PM  A very interesting tongue.   It looks like a deficiency case. There was no thick coat. Light coat with yellow ( a little heat may be from medication, drugs or chemicals, anything from ingestion... ), Pale tongue from deficiency, injury flesh ( Sp ), Sp controls the flesh. IF this is Sto / Sp ulcer, the tongue should be dry and probably thick coat....... What may happen to Sp ? Drug abused, alcohol or medication , who knows ? Only patient knows best. I doubt it , if this is from bacterial or viral infection.   This may be mineral deficiency too, anything which may affect the Sp, the nutrient ( Qi & Blood ) that nourishes the flesh. Sp & Sto Qi , together, they produce Wei Qi and postnatal Qi. Postnatal Qi nourishes the body........ If this is a form of SP deficiency, it must be a chronic illness. Patient will experience fatigue, lethargy, shortness of breath, dizziness, or headache, itching , diarrhea or constipation, anemia , tinnitus , abdominal discomfort or dull pain, tingling or numbness of the extremities. ......... ......... ... Untreated will cause Liver deficiency with emotional distress, depression, and persistent headache or dizziness. This case must be referred to family physician immediately before seeing the patient the 2nd visit.  If the pulse is thready and floating.... ...... CARE SHOULD BE HANDLED BY PHYSICIAN FIRST. Nam Nguyen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 9, 2010 Report Share Posted March 9, 2010 It's from an infected tongue piercing. I saw this on a piercing safety website a while back. Chinese Medicine , Hugo Ramiro <subincor wrote: > > Anybody want to give this one a shot? > > http://imgg.dt00.net/250/250157_vb.jpg > > Hugo > ________________________________ > Hugo Ramiro > http://middlemedicine.wordpress.com > http://www.middlemedicine.org > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 9, 2010 Report Share Posted March 9, 2010 It looks like it might also be in a smoker. Michael W. Bowser, DC, LAc Chinese Medicine cthmsn Tue, 9 Mar 2010 07:43:59 +0000 Re: Tongue Diagnosis It's from an infected tongue piercing. I saw this on a piercing safety website a while back. Chinese Medicine , Hugo Ramiro <subincor wrote: > > Anybody want to give this one a shot? > > http://imgg.dt00.net/250/250157_vb.jpg > > Hugo > ________________________________ > Hugo Ramiro > http://middlemedicine.wordpress.com > http://www.middlemedicine.org > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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