Guest guest Posted February 23, 2010 Report Share Posted February 23, 2010 Hi all, In light of some recent discussions, I thought I would just copy and paste some words from Fruehauf's site, just to emphasize that there is a living oral tradition which is weak and not the same thing as what is taught in TCM universities. An example of this tradition that has been mentioned many times on this list is that of Jeffrey Yuen - I ask what it is that he seems to have that is different from other TCM educators, why it seems that TCM educators generally cannot provide what he provides, and why he does not call himself " TCM " . The material in question, from classicalchinesemedicine.org: --- These extraordinary individuals are representative of an ever diminishing number of people who have maintained that connection to the realm of “Heavenâ€â€”people who have experienced direct transmission through their own master teachers, and entered into a slip stream of knowledge that passes directly from a universal source down to the individual, through a lineage of masters and disciples that stretches back thousands of years. At the core of this ancient science of transmission lies the master’s task of passing specific data on to his or her disciple in a specific moment. This transmission, moreover, is used as a vehicle to awaken the student to the essential truth that life is a gift, destined to be lived to the fullest extent of our individual human potential. What comes through this sort of transmission? How does it affect the practitioner’s capacity for healing? Why has this traditional way of teaching the healing arts become endangered? What are we at risk of losing if these traditions perish completely? --- Many books contain some form of codified information regarding the above (for example references in the Nei Jing to Sheng Ren - " a person who, through his powers, awakens and develops people's higher nature " (Wilhelm 1951)), however, it is the teacher who is dedicated to the student, who in turn is dedicated to the teacher, who, at the right moment, is there to teach, often in a truly transformative way. Direct transmission is something we have all experienced, as a small or large flash of insight with an originating impulse in a teacher, parent or opponent, but to have a teacher who 1. is themselves sufficiently developed spiritually (connected to heaven), and 2. knows you well enough to be considered your own mother or father - that is not to be found in a university, and we, in CM suffer the more for it when these people are not present in our lives. I know that these rare people have been transformative in my life. " To develop yourself internally is the requisite for becoming a master healer, practicing large dao. Book learning will lead you only to small dao medicine. " Thanks, Hugo ________________________________ Hugo Ramiro http://middlemedicine.wordpress.com http://www.middlemedicine.org ________________________________ Chinese Medicine Mon, 22 February, 2010 8:12:58 RE: Re: Jing / Luo / Mai Simon, As Gabriel pointed out, as far as history goes, there is quite a bit of high quality material written on the topic in English. I think your point is pretty interesting because you are not the only person who says such things. I think many teachers (especially non-TCM oriented) have never really read or studied the history and just spout their mouth off. However, it does not make their theories and opinions correct, and it is up to us to verify the information and get as close to the truth as we can. Thanks for the conversation, -Jason Traditional_ Chinese_Medicine [Traditional_ Chinese_Medicine ] On Behalf Of Simon Cairns Sunday, February 21, 2010 8:04 PM traditional_ chinese_medicine RE: Re: Jing / Luo / Mai Jason, I take your point! I refer to what I have heard from past teachers.... .mainly and I have no authors or books to point to. I wish I did. For those of us who do not read Chinese nor have access to certain material however the history of Chinese medicine is unclear. This opens the door for different theories and opinions to have their influence. Thanks for your solid response. Simon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 23, 2010 Report Share Posted February 23, 2010 Hugo: I ask what it is that he (Jeffrey Yuen) seems to have that is different from other TCM educators, why it seems that TCM educators generally cannot provide what he provides, and why he does not call himself " TCM " . Daniel: I was going to offer an answer but then I thought its really not my place to do that (as someone who has yet to attend a live Yuen workshop - is going to very very soon - but has had a LOT of regular contact with some of his more senior students - and has listened to several of his available workshop audio cd's) ---- probably the single best answer to this question Hugo is to suggest you go to a few of J. Yuen's weekend sessions on a topic or two you are interested in - its very likely if you do this your questions above will be fully and clearly answered. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 23, 2010 Report Share Posted February 23, 2010 I'm in Daniel's shoes too, since I've read many of Jeffrey's transcripts and audio recordings, but am not one of his students. I think there are many of us out there. Jeffrey comes from an oral lineage, not exactly a classical scholarship one. I believe that there were many more people in this category before the Great Purges in China. Just because it's a lineage doesn't make it true and just because it's oral doesn't make it false. K On Tue, Feb 23, 2010 at 4:39 AM, daniel.schulman <daniel.schulmanwrote: > > > > Hugo: I ask what it is that he (Jeffrey Yuen) seems to have that > is different from other TCM educators, why it seems that TCM educators > generally > cannot provide what he provides, and why he does not call himself " TCM " . > > Daniel: I was going to offer an answer but then I thought its really not my > place to do that (as someone who has yet to attend a live Yuen workshop - is > going to very very soon - but has had a LOT of regular contact with some of > his more senior students - and has listened to several of his available > workshop audio cd's) ---- probably the single best answer to this question > Hugo is to suggest you go to a few of J. Yuen's weekend sessions on a topic > or two you are interested in - its very likely if you do this your questions > above will be fully and clearly answered. > > > -- "" www.tcmreview.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 23, 2010 Report Share Posted February 23, 2010 Hi Daniel, if I get a chance, I certainly will attend his seminars, but it was intended as a rhetorical question posed to the list since he is the only exponent of a non-TCM direct-transmission tradition who has been mentioned regularly on this forum. I have been lucky enough to have fallen in with " my own " exponent, so I am pretty sure what I get from him. What have your experiences been with Yuen's senior students? Thanks, Hugo ________________________________ Hugo Ramiro http://middlemedicine.wordpress.com http://www.middlemedicine.org ________________________________ daniel.schulman <daniel.schulman Chinese Medicine Tue, 23 February, 2010 7:39:01 Re: Oral Tradition Hugo: I ask what it is that he (Jeffrey Yuen) seems to have that is different from other TCM educators, why it seems that TCM educators generally cannot provide what he provides, and why he does not call himself " TCM " . Daniel: I was going to offer an answer but then I thought its really not my place to do that (as someone who has yet to attend a live Yuen workshop - is going to very very soon - but has had a LOT of regular contact with some of his more senior students - and has listened to several of his available workshop audio cd's) ---- probably the single best answer to this question Hugo is to suggest you go to a few of J. Yuen's weekend sessions on a topic or two you are interested in - its very likely if you do this your questions above will be fully and clearly answered. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 23, 2010 Report Share Posted February 23, 2010 Hi Hugo My experience with them is that their full understanding and clinical command of the entire acupuncture framework (by which I mean - Sinews, Luo Vessels, Main Meridians, Divergent Channels, Extra Vessels, etc) not to mention their deep-to-present day historical understanding of the clinical and theoretical context of principles and practices of chinese medicine are very very much richer than mine. (but this is after not one or two weekends with JY, but more like 40 or 50). Regards Daniel Chinese Medicine , Hugo Ramiro <subincor wrote: > > Hi Daniel, if I get a chance, I certainly will attend his seminars, but it was intended as a rhetorical question posed to the list since he is the only exponent of a non-TCM direct-transmission tradition who has been mentioned regularly on this forum. > I have been lucky enough to have fallen in with " my own " exponent, so I am pretty sure what I get from him. > What have your experiences been with Yuen's senior students? > > > Thanks, > Hugo > > ________________________________ > Hugo Ramiro > http://middlemedicine.wordpress.com > http://www.middlemedicine.org > > > > > > ________________________________ > daniel.schulman <daniel.schulman > Chinese Medicine > Tue, 23 February, 2010 7:39:01 > Re: Oral Tradition > > > > Hugo: I ask what it is that he (Jeffrey Yuen) seems to have that > is different from other TCM educators, why it seems that TCM educators generally > cannot provide what he provides, and why he does not call himself " TCM " . > > Daniel: I was going to offer an answer but then I thought its really not my place to do that (as someone who has yet to attend a live Yuen workshop - is going to very very soon - but has had a LOT of regular contact with some of his more senior students - and has listened to several of his available workshop audio cd's) ---- probably the single best answer to this question Hugo is to suggest you go to a few of J. Yuen's weekend sessions on a topic or two you are interested in - its very likely if you do this your questions above will be fully and clearly answered. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 23, 2010 Report Share Posted February 23, 2010 Hi Hugo: I would also suggest you attend one of his workshops. We seldom see a deep discussion on Acupuncture and the Acupuncture channel systems on this list or some others I am in. In the common Acupuncture sources there is little on all the channels of Acupuncture, this is a lost art and one you can gain access to these in his teachings. Its my belief the saying " Acupuncture can only do so much and one needs to use herbs " stems from a superficial application of the channels, TCM mostly focuses on the Primary Channels and dabbles in Eight Extraordinary channels, how could one optimize their results using two of the 6-channels? The Nei Jing clearly presents there are levels of the Channels systems and pathogens and pathology can be located in the specific levels and channels, we need to treat the right channels, with the right needles with the right technique, anything short reduces our effectiveness. All this you can learn from his teachings. Regards, david Chinese Medicine , Hugo Ramiro <subincor wrote: > > Hi Daniel, if I get a chance, I certainly will attend his seminars, but it was intended as a rhetorical question posed to the list since he is the only exponent of a non-TCM direct-transmission tradition who has been mentioned regularly on this forum. > I have been lucky enough to have fallen in with " my own " exponent, so I am pretty sure what I get from him. > What have your experiences been with Yuen's senior students? > > > Thanks, > Hugo > > ________________________________ > Hugo Ramiro > http://middlemedicine.wordpress.com > http://www.middlemedicine.org > > > > > > ________________________________ > daniel.schulman <daniel.schulman > Chinese Medicine > Tue, 23 February, 2010 7:39:01 > Re: Oral Tradition > > > > Hugo: I ask what it is that he (Jeffrey Yuen) seems to have that > is different from other TCM educators, why it seems that TCM educators generally > cannot provide what he provides, and why he does not call himself " TCM " . > > Daniel: I was going to offer an answer but then I thought its really not my place to do that (as someone who has yet to attend a live Yuen workshop - is going to very very soon - but has had a LOT of regular contact with some of his more senior students - and has listened to several of his available workshop audio cd's) ---- probably the single best answer to this question Hugo is to suggest you go to a few of J. Yuen's weekend sessions on a topic or two you are interested in - its very likely if you do this your questions above will be fully and clearly answered. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 23, 2010 Report Share Posted February 23, 2010 Hi John, I am curious as to what kind of benefit you get from Yuen's lectures? What is " classical scholarship " ? There seems to be a hierarchy where the scholars who do a lot of reading or writing are more authoritative, when they are not necessarily so. Writing stuff down just preserves one in a dead state posthumously, that's all. I would indeed call Yuen a classical scholar...of the oral /direct transmission type. Or if not a scholar, the equivalent. I agree that the " great purges " had a great and long-lasting impact. -John-- Just because it's a lineage doesn't make it true and just because it's oral doesn't make it false. --- Same applies for books, no? I find it so interesting that so many of us seem to be uncomfortable with lineage and oral tradition. I would say (cautiously) that it is mainly a commitment problem. People don't want to commit, in this modern age, they just want to " be free " to " do what they want " . Thoughts? Hugo ________________________________ Hugo Ramiro http://middlemedicine.wordpress.com http://www.middlemedicine.org Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 23, 2010 Report Share Posted February 23, 2010 Daniel: Wow, that is excellent, thanks for sharing that. Hugo ________________________________ Hugo Ramiro http://middlemedicine.wordpress.com http://www.middlemedicine.org Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 23, 2010 Report Share Posted February 23, 2010 People don't want to commit, in this modern age, they just want to " be free " to " do what they want " Its the highly casual attitude of the post-modern individual and is a rampant characteristic of the superficial New Age. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 23, 2010 Report Share Posted February 23, 2010 Thanks David, I definitely intend to learn what I can from Yuen. First I have to find my passport. I agree that acupuncture is severely underutilised in TCM. Skilled use of acupuncture requires strong, clear intention, and this develops best when undergoing internal cultivation, which again, we don't get from books, no matter how much we read. Without the internal training, it is very difficult to influence or transform qi in the channels. Internal training is very difficult as well, which perhaps makes it unworthwhile for some. I have imagined that Mann's opinions regarding the channels, collaterals and extraordinary vessels is due to his non-existent nei gong and a powerful intention entrained by his profound bias. Thanks, Hugo ________________________________ Hugo Ramiro http://middlemedicine.wordpress.com http://www.middlemedicine.org Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 23, 2010 Report Share Posted February 23, 2010 Hugo, I'm skeptical about oral, written, lineage and novel systems, just as much as anyone else. Jeffrey Yuen teaches the classics, but is not one to go by the letter. This would be a great discussion... what makes a classical scholar? I use some of Jeffrey's acupoint prescriptions, such as the Po treatment on the lower Du points. After trying them a few times and seeing results, I keep doing it. I have written an essay on some of this, which I can send to you personally. His teachings give context to a lot of what we do, where meaning enhances our intentionality. K On Tue, Feb 23, 2010 at 10:40 AM, Hugo Ramiro <subincor wrote: > > > Hi John, > > I am curious as to what kind of benefit you get from Yuen's lectures? > > What is " classical scholarship " ? There seems to be a hierarchy where the > scholars who do a lot of reading or writing are more authoritative, when > they are not necessarily so. Writing stuff down just preserves one in a dead > state posthumously, that's all. I would indeed call Yuen a classical > scholar...of the oral /direct transmission type. Or if not a scholar, the > equivalent. > > I agree that the " great purges " had a great and long-lasting impact. > > -John-- > > Just because it's a lineage doesn't make it true > and just because it's oral doesn't make it false. > --- > > Same applies for books, no? > > I find it so interesting that so many of us seem to be uncomfortable with > lineage and oral tradition. I would say (cautiously) that it is mainly a > commitment problem. People don't want to commit, in this modern age, they > just want to " be free " to " do what they want " . > > Thoughts? > > > Hugo > > ________________________________ > Hugo Ramiro > http://middlemedicine.wordpress.com > http://www.middlemedicine.org > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 23, 2010 Report Share Posted February 23, 2010 I don't think internal cultivation necessarily has to be experienced as " difficult. " It's probably more to the point to say that it takes time. But even this isn't always true; one of the reasons people are drawn to certain master teachers is that, through resonance, direct transmission is possible. But then, direct transmission also has to supported, and yes, cultivated. It takes care, attention, time, interest, passion, but IMO it's not necessarily difficult. RoseAnne On Tue, Feb 23, 2010 at 2:01 PM, daniel.schulman <daniel.schulmanwrote: > > > People don't want to commit, in this modern age, they just > want to " be free " to " do what they want " > > Its the highly casual attitude of the post-modern individual and is a > rampant characteristic of the superficial New Age. > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 23, 2010 Report Share Posted February 23, 2010 Great imagination, I agree! Stefano Marcelli Darfo Boario Terme BS I have imagined that Mann's opinions regarding the channels, collaterals and extraordinary vessels is due to his non-existent nei gong and a powerful intention entrained by his profound bias. Thanks, Hugo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 23, 2010 Report Share Posted February 23, 2010 So just out of curiosity, how do others consider inner development for Japanese, Vietnamese, and any other non-Chinese groups? Many of these groups do not have qi gong. I know that Shudo Denmai would treat himself several times a day using the same point (liver 8). Michael W. Bowser, DC, LAc Chinese Medicine subincor Tue, 23 Feb 2010 19:07:17 +0000 Re: Re: Oral Tradition Thanks David, I definitely intend to learn what I can from Yuen. First I have to find my passport. I agree that acupuncture is severely underutilised in TCM. Skilled use of acupuncture requires strong, clear intention, and this develops best when undergoing internal cultivation, which again, we don't get from books, no matter how much we read. Without the internal training, it is very difficult to influence or transform qi in the channels. Internal training is very difficult as well, which perhaps makes it unworthwhile for some. I have imagined that Mann's opinions regarding the channels, collaterals and extraordinary vessels is due to his non-existent nei gong and a powerful intention entrained by his profound bias. Thanks, Hugo ________________________________ Hugo Ramiro http://middlemedicine.wordpress.com http://www.middlemedicine.org Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 23, 2010 Report Share Posted February 23, 2010 Hi John: -John-- Jeffrey Yuen teaches the classics, but is not one to go by the letter. This would be a great discussion... what makes a classical scholar? --- My teacher does the same thing, it is the spirit of the law, not letter of the law. But memorise the letter of the law. I really love your point about how meaning enhances intentionality. This is the essence of Yi/Intention as is mentioned in " Medicine is Signification " (Scheid, Bensky 1998). Sun SiMiao is often quoted on this one: " Medicine is intention - Those who are proficient at using intention are good doctors " . I don't know what makes a classical scholar - is it safe to say that scholars are distinct from shamans, clinicians and sages? Hugo ________________________________ Hugo Ramiro http://middlemedicine.wordpress.com http://www.middlemedicine.org ________________________________ <johnkokko Chinese Medicine Tue, 23 February, 2010 14:26:35 Re: Re: Oral Tradition Hugo, I'm skeptical about oral, written, lineage and novel systems, just as much as anyone else. Jeffrey Yuen teaches the classics, but is not one to go by the letter. This would be a great discussion... what makes a classical scholar? I use some of Jeffrey's acupoint prescriptions, such as the Po treatment on the lower Du points. After trying them a few times and seeing results, I keep doing it. I have written an essay on some of this, which I can send to you personally. His teachings give context to a lot of what we do, where meaning enhances our intentionality. K On Tue, Feb 23, 2010 at 10:40 AM, Hugo Ramiro <subincor wrote: > > > Hi John, > > I am curious as to what kind of benefit you get from Yuen's lectures? > > What is " classical scholarship " ? There seems to be a hierarchy where the > scholars who do a lot of reading or writing are more authoritative, when > they are not necessarily so. Writing stuff down just preserves one in a dead > state posthumously, that's all. I would indeed call Yuen a classical > scholar...of the oral /direct transmission type. Or if not a scholar, the > equivalent. > > I agree that the " great purges " had a great and long-lasting impact. > > -John-- > > Just because it's a lineage doesn't make it true > and just because it's oral doesn't make it false. > --- > > Same applies for books, no? > > I find it so interesting that so many of us seem to be uncomfortable with > lineage and oral tradition. I would say (cautiously) that it is mainly a > commitment problem. People don't want to commit, in this modern age, they > just want to " be free " to " do what they want " . > > Thoughts? > > > Hugo > > ________________________________ > Hugo Ramiro > http://middlemedicine.wordpress.com > http://www.middlemedicine.org > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 23, 2010 Report Share Posted February 23, 2010 I have found that the longer I have practiced this medicine, the less I rely on Herbal Medicine. For the first few years of practice, at least 80% or more of my patients received Chinese herbs. Now maybe 5 - 10% require herbs. I find that acupuncture done well and correctly can take care of most of the problems I see in clinic. I have sat in on Jeffrey Yuens classes and they seem to be about classical Chinese medical theory with lots of pathophysiology. The treatments appear to be modified TCM and some are very elegant. I have used some of his protocols and have not seen better results with his as compared to my own. Actually, my prescriptions are simpler and usually work quicker. I know folks might disagree, but my opinion is that if practitioners have time to write books, they probably are not seeing many patients. Personally, I have had a desire to write, but have not time to do so. I am in clinic 10 to 12 hours a day and can not find the time nor the energy to write and do proper research for publishing. In undergrad school, I found that most of my professors never had " real " jobs, they taught; and the folks that actually worked in the real world weren't the ones teaching. Very sincerely, Dr. Donald J. Snow, Jr., D.A.O.M., MPH, L.Ac. Chinese Medicine subincor Tue, 23 Feb 2010 18:40:00 +0000 Re: Re: Oral Tradition Hi John, I am curious as to what kind of benefit you get from Yuen's lectures? What is " classical scholarship " ? There seems to be a hierarchy where the scholars who do a lot of reading or writing are more authoritative, when they are not necessarily so. Writing stuff down just preserves one in a dead state posthumously, that's all. I would indeed call Yuen a classical scholar...of the oral /direct transmission type. Or if not a scholar, the equivalent. I agree that the " great purges " had a great and long-lasting impact. -John-- Just because it's a lineage doesn't make it true and just because it's oral doesn't make it false. --- Same applies for books, no? I find it so interesting that so many of us seem to be uncomfortable with lineage and oral tradition. I would say (cautiously) that it is mainly a commitment problem. People don't want to commit, in this modern age, they just want to " be free " to " do what they want " . Thoughts? Hugo ________________________________ Hugo Ramiro http://middlemedicine.wordpress.com http://www.middlemedicine.org Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 24, 2010 Report Share Posted February 24, 2010 Hi Donald, I know quite a few very busy practitioners, like Charles Chace and including myself, that make it a point to find time to write. This is essential to furthering and deepening our (the West and ourselves) understanding of Chinese medicine. Doing so, IMO, is a service to the profession, supplying a clinical perspective to the written record. If clinicians do not take the time to do so, we end up with books only written by academics. Hence we have the term scholar-clinician. Although for some reason this term (or any term that has the word scholar in it) has a bad connotation, I personally strive to be this type of practitioner. There is nothing wrong with being a scholar or teacher. Therefore, to answer Hugo, a scholar does not have to be distinct from a clinician, shaman or sage. However I do agree that often teachers do not have clinical experience and for certain classes this definitely can be problematic. We only have so much time in the day, and I get your point. Honestly, I've currently forgone any formal teaching to spend this time on studying, writing, and translating on my days off, in the evenings, and mornings before patients. In addition, teaching and writing sharpens one's thinking and clarifies difficult ideas. I have written up many of my case studies (although only two at the moment are published) and find this " exercise " a great learning tool for myself as well as others. It provides a healthy check and balance to what we are doing from not only others but from ourselves. Too many times practitioners become diluted in their (CM) thinking and what they are actually accomplishing and sometimes it takes an outside viewpoint to set things straight. I remember after I published my first case study, Craig Mitchell gave me some insightful perspectives on how I thought about the case. - Chinese Medicine Chinese Medicine On Behalf Of Donald Snow Tuesday, February 23, 2010 3:29 PM Chinese Traditional Medicine RE: Re: Oral Tradition I have found that the longer I have practiced this medicine, the less I rely on Herbal Medicine. For the first few years of practice, at least 80% or more of my patients received Chinese herbs. Now maybe 5 - 10% require herbs. I find that acupuncture done well and correctly can take care of most of the problems I see in clinic. I have sat in on Jeffrey Yuens classes and they seem to be about classical Chinese medical theory with lots of pathophysiology. The treatments appear to be modified TCM and some are very elegant. I have used some of his protocols and have not seen better results with his as compared to my own. Actually, my prescriptions are simpler and usually work quicker. I know folks might disagree, but my opinion is that if practitioners have time to write books, they probably are not seeing many patients. Personally, I have had a desire to write, but have not time to do so. I am in clinic 10 to 12 hours a day and can not find the time nor the energy to write and do proper research for publishing. In undergrad school, I found that most of my professors never had " real " jobs, they taught; and the folks that actually worked in the real world weren't the ones teaching. Very sincerely, Dr. Donald J. Snow, Jr., D.A.O.M., MPH, L.Ac. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 24, 2010 Report Share Posted February 24, 2010 Hi all: Wow what an interesting conversation comrades! Insight! Opposition!! Thank you all for chiming in so far, it is so nice to see the diversity in our profession. Warmly, Hugo " my nefarious plan is working " Ramiro Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 24, 2010 Report Share Posted February 24, 2010 Thanks to Donald ! I agree with Donald, but sometimes we have to learn from books, seminars, friends and any other sources as much as possible. They are only for references and must be justified. All I wish everybody should have some benefits in learning and sharing their experiences either through work or study. Nam Nguyen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 24, 2010 Report Share Posted February 24, 2010 Dear Donald. Compliments! Acupuncture goes against too many economical business interests. Herbs make many people have a work. Sometime I am a conspiracy theorist even to imagine that scientists and military have already found a way to see the acupuncture meridian system, but... Yes, this is only a conspiracy theory :-). Ciao, Stefano Marcelli Darfo Boario Terme BS --- I find that acupuncture done well and correctly can take care of most of the problems I see in clinic. Actually, my prescriptions are simpler and usually work quicker. Very sincerely, Dr. Donald J. Snow, Jr., D.A.O.M., MPH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 24, 2010 Report Share Posted February 24, 2010 The thing I think people are missing here is that the Chinese medicine written record, almost by definition, has been verified. Books and ideas that did not play out clinically, over the 2000 years of history, have been weeded out. Do you think the Shang Han Lun would still be around if it did not work? People seem to have the idea that Chinese medicine just like to preserve any old book. However this is far from accurate and there are oodles of books that no longer exist and ideas that are no longer used clinically. The point of writing something down (and still is), was that hundreds of thousands of doctors that follow could take these ideas, provide more written commentary disagreeing, agreeing, amending and finally verifying how it played out clinically. Quite simply, this is why Chinese medicine is as strong as it is and something that oral tradition does not have. -Jason Chinese Medicine Chinese Medicine On Behalf Of Nam Nguyen Tuesday, February 23, 2010 9:11 PM Chinese Medicine RE: Re: Oral Tradition Thanks to Donald ! I agree with Donald, but sometimes we have to learn from books, seminars, friends and any other sources as much as possible. They are only for references and must be justified. All I wish everybody should have some benefits in learning and sharing their experiences either through work or study. Nam Nguyen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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