Guest guest Posted February 24, 2010 Report Share Posted February 24, 2010 Dear John, I know well the book of Kaptchuk. The back-shu points don’t correspond to spinal nerves, seen what I found, but directly to the organs themselves. And this finding corroborates with the classic (anatomic) knowledge: “The back-shu are the points on the back where " Qi " of the respective zangfu organs is infused.” So a special qi exists for every organ. It is obscure to interpret, however my new outlook (coinciding with anatomical topography) tells me that they are holes. If you make x-rays you make temporary holes in the cellular body. The web that is the weaver itself has permanent holes to infuse in every organ its specific Qi. The work is always in progress. I repeat: I have nothing against TCM, on the contrary I think it is TRUE MEDICINE, only I give myself the right to know without obeying blindly to some dogmas. They saw, I too want to see. Ciao, Stefano Marcelli Darfo Boario Terme BS Chinese Medicine [Chinese Medicine om] On Behalf Of Wednesday, February 24, 2010 4:40 PM Chinese Medicine Re: Strange Circle in the Kidney Channel - NEW FINDINGS Stefano wrote: Anatomy and function are in strict relationship. Stefano, this is an interesting topic.... if you read " the Web that has no Weaver " by Ted Kaptchuk, he eloquently makes the distinction between the biomedical anatomical-physiological system and the Chinese functional-correlative medicine. Here are a few examples of how anatomy and function are not in a strict relationship according to Chinese medicine: many of the back-shu points do not correspond to the dorsal spinal nerve - organ relationship according to biomedicine in TCM, the five zang and six fu are organ systems, often with extremely different functions than the literal anatomical organs The " jing-luo-mai " channels/vessels of Chinese medicine do not coincide with major nerves/ blood vessels except in a few instances, such as the hand-yang-ming LI channel = radial nerve. The acupuncture points " xue " are functionally important, not exactly anatomically dependent. According to research, they coincide with known " trigger points " only about 30% of the time. Do you think that Chinese medicine were that bad in anatomy? They were doing intricate cadaver studies in the Warring states period and documented these in the Han dynasty. They could see that the anatomical liver was on the right side and the spleen-pancreas was left of the mid-line. Yet, on a Qi-level, the left pulse, abdomen and face belongs to the Liver (gan). So, how come our maps are so different from Vesalius? K On Wed, Feb 24, 2010 at 5:20 AM, stefanomarcelli <stefanomarcelli > wrote: > John, > I don't want to be an acupuncture teacher, in no > way. > But the only organ possible for the Dumai I could > find following the list of the thoracic organs was > the Sinus Node. And the choice is coherent with > the channel theory. Also Corpus Callosus, spine, > medulla oblongata, septus nasi, philtrum (!!!)and > all thing are on the back and skull, face medial > line till the philtrum can be under the control of > Dumai, but it back-shu point, were " qi infuses " > the pertaining organ, is after and within the > heart back-shu. > Anatomy and function are in strict relationship. > Very friendly, ciao > > Stefano Marcelli > Darfo Boario Terme BS > > > > Chinese Medicine > [Chinese Medicine > om] On Behalf Of > Wednesday, February 24, 2010 3:55 AM > Chinese Medicine > Re: Strange Circle in the Kidney > Channel - NEW FINDINGS > > If anything, the Du mai seems to coincide with the > brain/spinal cord, > along with the nerves that innervate down it > and the cerebro-spinal fluid running through it. > > Stefano, I think we need to differentiate > anatomical locations vs functional > correspondences. > UB 20 functionally corresponds to the TCM > spleen/pancreas " pi " , > while UB 21 corresponds to the TCM stomach " wei " . > Chinese medicine is more of a functional medicine > than anatomical one. > > If we start changing things around from an > anatomical perspective, > we would find the liver pulse on the right wrist > and the spleen pulse on the left wrist. > > K > > > > > > On Tue, Feb 23, 2010 at 3:08 PM, Joe Messey > <joe.messey wrote: > > > > > > > Stefano: > > > > Again according to anatomy, in the list of the > back-shu points the > > positions of stomach and spleen are inverted, > the stomach should come first > > (not yet published). > > > > Li Dongyuan: > > Once food enters the stomach, its essential > energy is moved upwards to > > infuse first the spleen and then the lung. > > > > Joe: > > whose anatomy are you using? In CM the spleen is > above the stomach so Pishu > > is above Weishu. > > Sorry, buddy, but between Stefano and Li > Dongyuan...who are we to believe? > > > > Stefano: > > > > > > Dumai has its own organ (no book says this), and > it is the Sinus node > > > > Joe: > > HUH?!?!?! > > Maybe there is a reason that no book says that? > > > > Joe Messey > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > removed] > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > "" > > > www.tcmreview.com > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > removed] > > > > --- > > Subscribe to the free online journal for TCM at > Times > http://www.chinesemedicinetimes.com > > Help build the world's largest online encyclopedia > for Chinese medicine and acupuncture, click, > http://www.chinesemedicinetimes.com/wiki/CMTpedia > > > Traditional_Chinese_ > Medicine/join and adjust accordingly. > > Messages are the property of the author. Any > duplication outside the group requires prior > permission from the author. > > Please consider the environment and only print > this message if absolutely necessary. Groups > Links > > Traditional_Chinese_ > Medicine/ > > Traditional_Chinese_ > Medicine/join > ( ID required) > > Chinese Medicine-digest > m > > Chinese Medicine-fullfeatured@gro > ups.com > > Chinese Medicine-@grou > ps.com > > > > --- > > Subscribe to the free online journal for TCM at Times > http://www.chinesemedicinetimes.com > > Help build the world's largest online encyclopedia for Chinese medicine and > acupuncture, click, http://www.chinesemedicinetimes.com/wiki/CMTpedia > > > Traditional_Chinese_ Medicine/join and adjust > accordingly. > > Messages are the property of the author. Any duplication outside the group > requires prior permission from the author. > > Please consider the environment and only print this message if absolutely > necessary. 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