Guest guest Posted March 5, 2010 Report Share Posted March 5, 2010 Does anybody have experience with bilateral hydronephrosis? - Bill Schoenbart Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 6, 2010 Report Share Posted March 6, 2010 That's urinary block. I don't suppose you have any more details. Hugo ________________________________ Hugo Ramiro http://middlemedicine.wordpress.com http://www.middlemedicine.org ________________________________ bill_schoenbart <plantmed2 Chinese Medicine Fri, 5 March, 2010 13:10:13 Hydronephrosis Does anybody have experience with bilateral hydronephrosis? - Bill Schoenbart Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 6, 2010 Report Share Posted March 6, 2010 72 year old female, who I saw for the first time yesterday. Previously in good health. Had an adverse reaction to antibiotics and anesthesia during routine gallbladder surgery. She told the surgeon that she was allergic to these meds, and he used them anyway! One kidney completely destroyed; the other has 20 - 30% function remaining. TCM diagnosis kidney yin and yang deficiency. First line of therapy is You Gui San and Cordyceps. No feedback yet, of course. I'm not looking for theoretical ideas, but would be interested to hear from somebody who has worked with this condition. - Bill Chinese Medicine , Hugo Ramiro <subincor wrote: > > That's urinary block. I don't suppose you have any more details. > > Hugo > > ________________________________ > Hugo Ramiro > http://middlemedicine.wordpress.com > http://www.middlemedicine.org > > > > > > ________________________________ > bill_schoenbart <plantmed2 > Chinese Medicine > Fri, 5 March, 2010 13:10:13 > Hydronephrosis > > > Does anybody have experience with bilateral hydronephrosis? > > - Bill Schoenbart > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 6, 2010 Report Share Posted March 6, 2010 Bill What form of Cordyceps are you using and what doseage? Turiya Hill, L.Ac. - bill_schoenbart Chinese Medicine Saturday, March 06, 2010 9:13 AM Re: Hydronephrosis 72 year old female, who I saw for the first time yesterday. Previously in good health. Had an adverse reaction to antibiotics and anesthesia during routine gallbladder surgery. She told the surgeon that she was allergic to these meds, and he used them anyway! One kidney completely destroyed; the other has 20 - 30% function remaining. TCM diagnosis kidney yin and yang deficiency. First line of therapy is You Gui San and Cordyceps. No feedback yet, of course. I'm not looking for theoretical ideas, but would be interested to hear from somebody who has worked with this condition. - Bill Chinese Medicine , Hugo Ramiro <subincor wrote: > > That's urinary block. I don't suppose you have any more details. > > Hugo > > ________________________________ > Hugo Ramiro > http://middlemedicine.wordpress.com > http://www.middlemedicine.org > > > > > > ________________________________ > bill_schoenbart <plantmed2 > Chinese Medicine > Fri, 5 March, 2010 13:10:13 > Hydronephrosis > > > Does anybody have experience with bilateral hydronephrosis? > > - Bill Schoenbart > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 6, 2010 Report Share Posted March 6, 2010 Hi Bill, well that's not exactly hydronephrosis then. That's malpractice and iatrogenic injury. Wow. I wonder what one kidney completely destroyed means? Is it necrosing? Ischemic/hypoxic? In physical tatters (due to dilation by the fluid backup)? Maybe it's just mostly shut down, waiting. Having dealt with plenty of urinary block, of which a certain amount have presented with relatively mild *chronic* " hydronephrosis " , I can say that I don't know what this type of acute iatrogenic type is like. It's bad that both kidneys were affected, how long ago were they affected? And it is important to find out how much dilation occurred in the kidneys. If by " previously in good health " you mean that she wasn't on any meds, I might do a lot more with the herbal therapy - strong damp drying and draining medicinals along with strong dosing of yunnanbaiyao / san qi. Hugo ________________________________ Hugo Ramiro http://middlemedicine.wordpress.com http://www.middlemedicine.org ________________________________ bill_schoenbart <plantmed2 Chinese Medicine Sat, 6 March, 2010 12:13:30 Re: Hydronephrosis 72 year old female, who I saw for the first time yesterday. Previously in good health. Had an adverse reaction to antibiotics and anesthesia during routine gallbladder surgery. She told the surgeon that she was allergic to these meds, and he used them anyway! One kidney completely destroyed; the other has 20 - 30% function remaining. TCM diagnosis kidney yin and yang deficiency. First line of therapy is You Gui San and Cordyceps. No feedback yet, of course. I'm not looking for theoretical ideas, but would be interested to hear from somebody who has worked with this condition. - Bill Traditional_ Chinese_Medicine , Hugo Ramiro <subincor@.. ..> wrote: > > That's urinary block. I don't suppose you have any more details. > > Hugo > > ____________ _________ _________ __ > Hugo Ramiro > http://middlemedici ne.wordpress. com > http://www.middleme dicine.org > > > > > > ____________ _________ _________ __ > bill_schoenbart <plantmed2@. ..> > > Fri, 5 March, 2010 13:10:13 > Hydronephrosis > > > Does anybody have experience with bilateral hydronephrosis? > > - Bill Schoenbart > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 7, 2010 Report Share Posted March 7, 2010 Thanks Hugo. Most likely, the hydronephrosis occurred as a result of structural damage in the kidneys due to the drug reactions. Two urologists confirmed that one kidney is damaged beyond repair. She is having a stent implanted in the other kidney tomorrow, so I will wait to see how she responds to the surgery before I would consider giving her draining herbs. She has responded well to kidney tonifying herbs in the past, and her tongue and pulse indicate a need for them. I also plan to start her on nettle seed extract, which is a western herbal treatment for kidney failure. - Bill Chinese Medicine , Hugo Ramiro <subincor wrote: > > Hi Bill, well that's not exactly hydronephrosis then. That's malpractice and iatrogenic injury. Wow. I wonder what one kidney completely destroyed means? Is it necrosing? Ischemic/hypoxic? In physical tatters (due to dilation by the fluid backup)? Maybe it's just mostly shut down, waiting. > > Having dealt with plenty of urinary block, of which a certain amount have presented with relatively mild *chronic* " hydronephrosis " , I can say that I don't know what this type of acute iatrogenic type is like. It's bad that both kidneys were affected, how long ago were they affected? And it is important to find out how much dilation occurred in the kidneys. > > If by " previously in good health " you mean that she wasn't on any meds, I might do a lot more with the herbal therapy - strong damp drying and draining medicinals along with strong dosing of yunnanbaiyao / san qi. > > > Hugo > > > ________________________________ > Hugo Ramiro > http://middlemedicine.wordpress.com > http://www.middlemedicine.org > > > > > > ________________________________ > bill_schoenbart <plantmed2 > Chinese Medicine > Sat, 6 March, 2010 12:13:30 > Re: Hydronephrosis > > > 72 year old female, who I saw for the first time yesterday. Previously in good health. Had an adverse reaction to antibiotics and anesthesia during routine gallbladder surgery. She told the surgeon that she was allergic to these meds, and he used them anyway! One kidney completely destroyed; the other has 20 - 30% function remaining. TCM diagnosis kidney yin and yang deficiency. First line of therapy is You Gui San and Cordyceps. No feedback yet, of course. > > I'm not looking for theoretical ideas, but would be interested to hear from somebody who has worked with this condition. > > - Bill > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 7, 2010 Report Share Posted March 7, 2010 Turiya, I will be adding the cordyceps after she gets out of surgery. I would like to use the wild version because of its reputation for healing damaged nephrons, but it is too costly. I will probably use an extract of cultivated fruiting bodies. - Bill Chinese Medicine , " Turiya Hill " <turiya wrote: > > Bill > What form of Cordyceps are you using and what doseage? > > Turiya Hill, L.Ac. > - > bill_schoenbart > Chinese Medicine > Saturday, March 06, 2010 9:13 AM > Re: Hydronephrosis > > > > 72 year old female, who I saw for the first time yesterday. Previously in good health. Had an adverse reaction to antibiotics and anesthesia during routine gallbladder surgery. She told the surgeon that she was allergic to these meds, and he used them anyway! One kidney completely destroyed; the other has 20 - 30% function remaining. TCM diagnosis kidney yin and yang deficiency. First line of therapy is You Gui San and Cordyceps. No feedback yet, of course. > > I'm not looking for theoretical ideas, but would be interested to hear from somebody who has worked with this condition. > > - Bill > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 7, 2010 Report Share Posted March 7, 2010 Bill Thanks for your reply. I would be grateful for a few more specifics. From where will you obtain this extract and can you provide some doseage guidelines? Turiya - bill_schoenbart Chinese Medicine Sunday, March 07, 2010 11:55 AM Re: Hydronephrosis Turiya, I will be adding the cordyceps after she gets out of surgery. I would like to use the wild version because of its reputation for healing damaged nephrons, but it is too costly. I will probably use an extract of cultivated fruiting bodies. - Bill Chinese Medicine , " Turiya Hill " <turiya wrote: > > Bill > What form of Cordyceps are you using and what doseage? > > Turiya Hill, L.Ac. > - > bill_schoenbart > Chinese Medicine > Saturday, March 06, 2010 9:13 AM > Re: Hydronephrosis > > > > 72 year old female, who I saw for the first time yesterday. Previously in good health. Had an adverse reaction to antibiotics and anesthesia during routine gallbladder surgery. She told the surgeon that she was allergic to these meds, and he used them anyway! One kidney completely destroyed; the other has 20 - 30% function remaining. TCM diagnosis kidney yin and yang deficiency. First line of therapy is You Gui San and Cordyceps. No feedback yet, of course. > > I'm not looking for theoretical ideas, but would be interested to hear from somebody who has worked with this condition. > > - Bill > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 8, 2010 Report Share Posted March 8, 2010 I will give her 3 grams per day at first, based on her age and weight. She is already responding very well to the you gui san at that same low dosage. She feels warmer, and urine flow is improved. I see that kind of rapid response to herbs often with young patients, but it was a pleasant surprise to see it in this case. - Bill Chinese Medicine , " Turiya Hill " <turiya wrote: > > Bill > Thanks for your reply. I would be grateful for a few more specifics. From where will you obtain this extract and can you provide some doseage guidelines? > > Turiya > - > bill_schoenbart > Chinese Medicine > Sunday, March 07, 2010 11:55 AM > Re: Hydronephrosis > > > > Turiya, > > I will be adding the cordyceps after she gets out of surgery. I would like to use the wild version because of its reputation for healing damaged nephrons, but it is too costly. I will probably use an extract of cultivated fruiting bodies. > > - Bill > > Chinese Medicine , " Turiya Hill " <turiya@> wrote: > > > > Bill > > What form of Cordyceps are you using and what doseage? > > > > Turiya Hill, L.Ac. > > - > > bill_schoenbart > > Chinese Medicine > > Saturday, March 06, 2010 9:13 AM > > Re: Hydronephrosis > > > > > > > > 72 year old female, who I saw for the first time yesterday. Previously in good health. Had an adverse reaction to antibiotics and anesthesia during routine gallbladder surgery. She told the surgeon that she was allergic to these meds, and he used them anyway! One kidney completely destroyed; the other has 20 - 30% function remaining. TCM diagnosis kidney yin and yang deficiency. First line of therapy is You Gui San and Cordyceps. No feedback yet, of course. > > > > I'm not looking for theoretical ideas, but would be interested to hear from somebody who has worked with this condition. > > > > - Bill > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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