Guest guest Posted March 11, 2010 Report Share Posted March 11, 2010 Daniel, Yeah... I always go by what the patient shows at that moment, not what it should be, but I'm interested in how Dr. Snow got the info about the back shu points and blood sugar regulation. In the patient I talked about, LV 3 is very helpful in decreasing the peripheral neuropathy and taking out some of the wiryness in his pulse, so I would use it regardless of how it works on blood sugar theoretically. But, I think Dr. Snow was specific about UB 18 making blood sugar rise, not just working the Liver... right? K On Wed, Mar 10, 2010 at 3:48 AM, Daniel Schulman <daniel.schulmanwrote: > > > Its not been my finding that in all cases, treating 'Liver' makes blood > sugar rise.When I do a full 'Kiiko' palpation of the patient, from head to > toe, in some diabetic cases, Liver reflexes are very active and demand > attention - in these cases, I presume Liver metabolism of glucose is part of > the 'problem' (at the physiologic level) and when I treat accordingly, in > these cases, blood sugar responds well.I will also add, that in addition to > UB 20, in almost every diabetic patient I have ever treated as well as any > one with sugar metabolism problems of any kind (hypoglycemic tendencies, > etc), Kiiko's sugar imbalance reflex (Hua Tuo Jia Ji of T11 and T12) is > almost highly highly reactive (spastic on palpation) and when needled > directly, brings about dramatic effect. > Daniel > > --- On Wed, 3/10/10, <johnkokko<johnkokko%40gmail.com>> > wrote: > > <johnkokko <johnkokko%40gmail.com>> > Re: Diabetic neuropathy > To: Chinese Medicine <Chinese Medicine%40yaho\ ogroups.com> > Received: Wednesday, March 10, 2010, 8:30 AM > > > > > Dr. Snow, > > Thanks for the findings... > > Interesting that the SP and KD back-shu points lower blood sugar levels, > but > > UB 18 (LV) can make blood glucose rise. > > Is this an instance with wood overacting on earth, making the earth weaker? > > As the Nei jing states... when problems with the earth, avoid the sour > > flavor (LV). > > K > > On Tue, Mar 9, 2010 at 10:12 AM, Donald Snow <don83407 (AT) msn (DOT) com> wrote: > > > > > > Use Kiiko's pachi-pachi e'stim with three needles on each foot with three > > > stimulations each. The results should be immediate and profound. This > > > treatment is even more efficacious when used with a Russian SCENAR with > 60% > > > to 100% relief on the first visit. It takes 9 to 15 treatments on average > > > for permanent resolution of the neuropathy. They must control their blood > > > glucose. > > > > > > > > > > > > To lower blood glucose levels only three points are needed. It is > > > important to add no other points. Before inserting the needles, get their > > > blood glucose level. If it is high, needle the following points: > > > > > > > > > > > > PiShu/weiguanxiashu bilat > > > > > > UB 23 bilat > > > > > > Kid 3 bilat > > > > > > > > > > > > Retain needle for 30 minutes and retest their BCG. It should drop > > > significantly. If you misplace pishu and needle UB 18, their BCG will > rise. > > > Therefore, it is important to have the correct locations. > > > > > > If you want to know more about this protocol, contact PCOM and ask for > Dr. > > > Snow's doctoral dissertation on Diabetes. > > > > > > > > > > > > Dr. Don Snow, DAOM, MPH, L.Ac. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > johnkokko (AT) gmail (DOT) com > > > Tue, 9 Mar 2010 09:53:47 -0800 > > > Re: Diabetic neuropathy > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mike, > > > Yes.... this patient is the kind of guy who doesn't want to admit that he > > > feels any pressure pain anywhere, > > > except that he complains a lot about his feet neuropathy. > > > So, the oketsu and immune were tight, but no pressure pain elicited from > > > the > > > patient. > > > Of all of the hara reflexes, adrenal (under the navel) came up, so it > > > directed me to KD 6, which halved the pins and needles sensation alone. > > > Also, LV 3 and ST 41 has been very helpful for this patient. > > > While pressing LI 4 strongly, most of the pins/needles would go away > > > completely, so that's his homework. > > > > > > The first treatment, I tried the points for peripheral neuropathy in > > > Kiiko's > > > Clinical Vol 2, but didn't see immediate results, > > > so I tried each point one-by-one checking and rechecking the nerve > > > sensation > > > on the bottom of his feet. > > > Of Kiiko's treatment from pgs. 129-137 in Vol 2, I tried Ren 12, 13, SP > > > 3.2, > > > ST Qi line, Lung 4/ 8, but these were not as effective as the points I > > > wrote > > > out earlier. Surprisingly, ST 36 and GB 34 were not as effective as I > would > > > assume. > > > The ankle fulcrum treatment was immediately effective... KD 6, ST 41 and > UB > > > 62, but found that UB 62 was not needed, so retained KD 6 and ST 41. I > > > have yet to try the Kiiko back treatment for peripheral neuropathy (kori > > > around UB 42, lumbar eyes, sugar points around UB 20/21), because the > other > > > treatment was working so well, but it would be worthwhile to do that the > > > next treatment. > > > The second treatment I needled KD 1, which was very lasting through the > > > week > > > and effective, but he requested that I don't needle that point because of > > > the obvious pain that can sometimes occur, so instead, I needle LV 3 > > > thru-thru towards KD 1. > > > > > > Let me know how your treatments go.. it's good to share this info, > > > K > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 11, 2010 Report Share Posted March 11, 2010 Hi Petra, just an idea... ear needles? This is from the Auriculotherapy Manual 2nd edition by Terry Oleson pg. 184 Peripheral Neuralgia: primary points: corresponding body area (feet/legs), spinal sensory neurons (sacral area on the antehelix), point zero, shen men secondary points: thalamus, brain, autonomic, sympathetic chain, adrenal gland (chinese), posterior hypothalamus, master sensorial, endocrine point It's definitely fun to try different protocols... shen men, point zero and sympathetic works pretty good for almost everything. K On Wed, Mar 10, 2010 at 5:02 PM, Petra Buchanan <petrabuchananwrote: > > > That is great to hear. So I treated her for the second time on monday and > she had a really strong reaction. She started shaking strongly. So I took > the needles out and did some moxa at ST 36 and KI 3. We are going to try > again next week but with only a few needles this time. Any advice? > > --- On Wed, 3/10/10, lee tritt <ladylee0999<ladylee0999%40>> > wrote: > > lee tritt <ladylee0999 <ladylee0999%40>> > > Re: Diabetic neuropathy > To: Chinese Medicine <Chinese Medicine%40yaho\ ogroups.com> > Wednesday, March 10, 2010, 10:38 AM > > > > > I have a patient who had diabetic neuropathy. He was seeing me for back > pain and, of course, I also treated spleen, GB and Kidney points on his legs > along with the Ashi points on his back. When he went to his neurologist, > they determined the neuropathy was completely gone. The gentleman told the > doctor that I was responsible for his improvement. The doctor just walked > around the exam room scratching his head because, you know, acupuncture cant > help with diabetic neuropathy. > > Lee Tritt > > ____________ _________ _________ __ > > mike Bowser <naturaldoc1@ hotmail.com> > > traditional_ chinese_medicine > > Tue, March 9, 2010 5:49:09 PM > > RE: Diabetic neuropathy > > John, > > Good to know. I was also curious if there was any need for neuro-vascular > compression of the thigh. I love this stuff and the immediate feedback for > most patients. I see a lot of pain complaints and some from disc issues. > Patients seem to be pain free for a couple of days in most cases, even the > disc problems. > > Michael W. Bowser, DC, LAc > > > > johnkokko (AT) gmail (DOT) com > > Tue, 9 Mar 2010 09:53:47 -0800 > > Re: Diabetic neuropathy > > Mike, > > Yes.... this patient is the kind of guy who doesn't want to admit that he > > feels any pressure pain anywhere, > > except that he complains a lot about his feet neuropathy. > > So, the oketsu and immune were tight, but no pressure pain elicited from > the > > patient. > > Of all of the hara reflexes, adrenal (under the navel) came up, so it > > directed me to KD 6, which halved the pins and needles sensation alone. > > Also, LV 3 and ST 41 has been very helpful for this patient. > > While pressing LI 4 strongly, most of the pins/needles would go away > > completely, so that's his homework. > > The first treatment, I tried the points for peripheral neuropathy in > Kiiko's > > Clinical Vol 2, but didn't see immediate results, > > so I tried each point one-by-one checking and rechecking the nerve > sensation > > on the bottom of his feet. > > Of Kiiko's treatment from pgs. 129-137 in Vol 2, I tried Ren 12, 13, SP > 3.2, > > ST Qi line, Lung 4/ 8, but these were not as effective as the points I > wrote > > out earlier. Surprisingly, ST 36 and GB 34 were not as effective as I would > > assume. > > The ankle fulcrum treatment was immediately effective... KD 6, ST 41 and UB > > 62, but found that UB 62 was not needed, so retained KD 6 and ST 41. I > > have yet to try the Kiiko back treatment for peripheral neuropathy (kori > > around UB 42, lumbar eyes, sugar points around UB 20/21), because the other > > treatment was working so well, but it would be worthwhile to do that the > > next treatment. > > The second treatment I needled KD 1, which was very lasting through the > week > > and effective, but he requested that I don't needle that point because of > > the obvious pain that can sometimes occur, so instead, I needle LV 3 > > thru-thru towards KD 1. > > Let me know how your treatments go.. it's good to share this info, > > K > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 11, 2010 Report Share Posted March 11, 2010 I got the information on the back shu points this way. At the time, I was in the Doctoral program at PCOM and I chose Acupuncture's effect on Type II Diabetes as my dissertation capstone project since I had recently been diagnosed with it. My research was original and the points used were also, since they were never used for acupuncture treatment of diabetes historically. I used common sense and logic to come up with this simple point prescription and then I tried to disprove its effects via the null hypothesis. The outcomes for the study were not short of amazing and the outlyers hinted at much more useful general information about acupuncture such as who responds better, males or females, which races appear to have a better response, etc. By the way, I have been free of diabetes and off all medicines for 3 years now. Anyone really interested in this research can contact PCOM San Diego; I'm sure they will get a copy to you. It is my firm belief that we have not really begun to see the potential of our beautiful and powerful medicine. However, for innovation to occur we must be able to think outside the box. We have a glorious tradition to our medicine and we must understand the past history and founding theories of OM just as one must learns form/kata in martial arts. After this, we must become formless and responsive in our treatments; we must become masters in our own right. It is our heritage and responsibility to take this medicine into the 21st century and beyond. To do that, I believe we must free ourselves from the shackles of this medicine's past (where most of us are stuck) and bring it to the now. That means changing the way we look at this medicine and perhaps combining it with new technology. If the great masters were alive today, I have no doubt that they would use the technology available and adapt the medicine to the times also; history shows they always did. That's is why of all the ancient medicines of history, OM is still intack and still used today. Sorry to cut this short but I have patients waiting. I am yours sincerely, Dr. Don Snow, DAOM, MPH, L.Ac. > Chinese Medicine > johnkokko > Wed, 10 Mar 2010 19:40:03 -0800 > Re: Diabetic neuropathy > > Daniel, > Yeah... I always go by what the patient shows at that moment, not what it > should be, > but I'm interested in how Dr. Snow got the info about the back shu points > and blood sugar regulation. > > In the patient I talked about, LV 3 is very helpful in decreasing the > peripheral neuropathy > and taking out some of the wiryness in his pulse, so I would use it > regardless of how it works on blood sugar theoretically. > > But, I think Dr. Snow was specific about UB 18 making blood sugar rise, not > just working the Liver... right? > > K > > > > On Wed, Mar 10, 2010 at 3:48 AM, Daniel Schulman > <daniel.schulmanwrote: > > > > > > > Its not been my finding that in all cases, treating 'Liver' makes blood > > sugar rise.When I do a full 'Kiiko' palpation of the patient, from head to > > toe, in some diabetic cases, Liver reflexes are very active and demand > > attention - in these cases, I presume Liver metabolism of glucose is part of > > the 'problem' (at the physiologic level) and when I treat accordingly, in > > these cases, blood sugar responds well.I will also add, that in addition to > > UB 20, in almost every diabetic patient I have ever treated as well as any > > one with sugar metabolism problems of any kind (hypoglycemic tendencies, > > etc), Kiiko's sugar imbalance reflex (Hua Tuo Jia Ji of T11 and T12) is > > almost highly highly reactive (spastic on palpation) and when needled > > directly, brings about dramatic effect. > > Daniel > > > > --- On Wed, 3/10/10, <johnkokko<johnkokko%40gmail.com>> > > wrote: > > > > <johnkokko <johnkokko%40gmail.com>> > > Re: Diabetic neuropathy > > To: Chinese Medicine <Chinese Medicine%40yaho\ ogroups.com> > > Received: Wednesday, March 10, 2010, 8:30 AM > > > > > > > > > > Dr. Snow, > > > > Thanks for the findings... > > > > Interesting that the SP and KD back-shu points lower blood sugar levels, > > but > > > > UB 18 (LV) can make blood glucose rise. > > > > Is this an instance with wood overacting on earth, making the earth weaker? > > > > As the Nei jing states... when problems with the earth, avoid the sour > > > > flavor (LV). > > > > K > > > > On Tue, Mar 9, 2010 at 10:12 AM, Donald Snow <don83407 (AT) msn (DOT) com> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Use Kiiko's pachi-pachi e'stim with three needles on each foot with three > > > > > stimulations each. The results should be immediate and profound. This > > > > > treatment is even more efficacious when used with a Russian SCENAR with > > 60% > > > > > to 100% relief on the first visit. It takes 9 to 15 treatments on average > > > > > for permanent resolution of the neuropathy. They must control their blood > > > > > glucose. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To lower blood glucose levels only three points are needed. It is > > > > > important to add no other points. Before inserting the needles, get their > > > > > blood glucose level. If it is high, needle the following points: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > PiShu/weiguanxiashu bilat > > > > > > > > > > UB 23 bilat > > > > > > > > > > Kid 3 bilat > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Retain needle for 30 minutes and retest their BCG. It should drop > > > > > significantly. If you misplace pishu and needle UB 18, their BCG will > > rise. > > > > > Therefore, it is important to have the correct locations. > > > > > > > > > > If you want to know more about this protocol, contact PCOM and ask for > > Dr. > > > > > Snow's doctoral dissertation on Diabetes. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dr. Don Snow, DAOM, MPH, L.Ac. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > johnkokko (AT) gmail (DOT) com > > > > > Tue, 9 Mar 2010 09:53:47 -0800 > > > > > Re: Diabetic neuropathy > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mike, > > > > > Yes.... this patient is the kind of guy who doesn't want to admit that he > > > > > feels any pressure pain anywhere, > > > > > except that he complains a lot about his feet neuropathy. > > > > > So, the oketsu and immune were tight, but no pressure pain elicited from > > > > > the > > > > > patient. > > > > > Of all of the hara reflexes, adrenal (under the navel) came up, so it > > > > > directed me to KD 6, which halved the pins and needles sensation alone. > > > > > Also, LV 3 and ST 41 has been very helpful for this patient. > > > > > While pressing LI 4 strongly, most of the pins/needles would go away > > > > > completely, so that's his homework. > > > > > > > > > > The first treatment, I tried the points for peripheral neuropathy in > > > > > Kiiko's > > > > > Clinical Vol 2, but didn't see immediate results, > > > > > so I tried each point one-by-one checking and rechecking the nerve > > > > > sensation > > > > > on the bottom of his feet. > > > > > Of Kiiko's treatment from pgs. 129-137 in Vol 2, I tried Ren 12, 13, SP > > > > > 3.2, > > > > > ST Qi line, Lung 4/ 8, but these were not as effective as the points I > > > > > wrote > > > > > out earlier. Surprisingly, ST 36 and GB 34 were not as effective as I > > would > > > > > assume. > > > > > The ankle fulcrum treatment was immediately effective... KD 6, ST 41 and > > UB > > > > > 62, but found that UB 62 was not needed, so retained KD 6 and ST 41. I > > > > > have yet to try the Kiiko back treatment for peripheral neuropathy (kori > > > > > around UB 42, lumbar eyes, sugar points around UB 20/21), because the > > other > > > > > treatment was working so well, but it would be worthwhile to do that the > > > > > next treatment. > > > > > The second treatment I needled KD 1, which was very lasting through the > > > > > week > > > > > and effective, but he requested that I don't needle that point because of > > > > > the obvious pain that can sometimes occur, so instead, I needle LV 3 > > > > > thru-thru towards KD 1. > > > > > > > > > > Let me know how your treatments go.. it's good to share this info, > > > > > K > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 11, 2010 Report Share Posted March 11, 2010 Petra, Yes the book is available at www.kiiko.com But, I would really encourage taking an intro weekend with David Euler, who is the co-author of the clinical handbook. He is the best to teach the style. You can find his classes on the website. His classes are excellent. Also, it takes at least 2 years of constant practice to get decent at it, (at least working out the constitutional picture) and there's so much to learn... so you keep learning and finding more appreciation for it as time goes on. I was lucky to have had a teacher who practiced this style in school as a trainee. Only this last year have I felt really comfortable with the big-picture and the details, since I was introduced to it six years ago. In the beginning, it took over an hour to do the diagnosis and treatment, which goes together. Now, it takes about 15 minutes to do a thorough job and patients feel immediate changes, not just psychological, but physiological. After a while, you can integrate other things you've picked up along the way. I add Tung points, when they're called for and check the abdominal/torso/back reflexes to see if there's a true change. You can also integrate your TCM, biomed and classical medicine knowledge as well, which only refines the treatment. What keeps you grounded is finding changes in the pulse and body (hara, neck/head/back). It's best to find someone who practices it and follow them and then practice a lot. The books are only helpful when you know the basics in practice. To find a practitioner close to you, you can look on the website. I'm sure you'll enjoy the process and your patients and practice will benefit too. Warm wishes, K On Tue, Mar 9, 2010 at 10:21 PM, Petra Buchanan <petrabuchananwrote: > > > Interesting! She has a ton of pain along the GB and Inner thigh. She > started shaking very severely during our last treatment. So I am not so sure > about acupuncture as a therapy. We are going to try again next week with a > few needles and some hand holding. I think I need to get that book. > > Petra > > --- On Tue, 3/9/10, <johnkokko<johnkokko%40gmail.com>> > wrote: > > <johnkokko <johnkokko%40gmail.com>> > > Re: Diabetic neuropathy > To: Chinese Medicine <Chinese Medicine%40yaho\ ogroups.com> > Tuesday, March 9, 2010, 5:24 PM > > > > > Mike, > > I didn't do the neuro-vascular compression of the thigh treatment with this > > patient. He doesn't have any major oketsu, oketsu kai, > > neck pain or pain along the left inner thigh channels. He has some > > tightness/ tenseness under the right rib cage and adrenal reflex showing. > > Hence, LV 3 (which is always sore on him, especially left-side) and KD 6, > > which relieves those abdominal reflexes. > > I always check for the following signs: oketsu, immune, adrenal, ST Qi, > > right / left subcostal, Ren 15 area, Ren 12, Ren 9, Ren 6, (lower KD and ST > > points for women = uterus/ovaries) , Dai mai, ST 25, KD 27.... Lung 1/2, UB > 2 > > (pituitary), ST 9 (thyroid), GB 20, SJ 17. > > He is bitter about a lot of things in life and so he supplemented his body > > with some superficial sweetness (sugar) to fill this emptiness. > > One of my teachers in Hawaii said that diabetics are always trying to make > > their life sweeter, because of the bitterness in their hearts. > > I also love practicing this kind of direct palpation acupuncture, with > > instant feedback. > > K > > On Tue, Mar 9, 2010 at 4:49 PM, mike Bowser <naturaldoc1@ hotmail.com> > wrote: > > > > > > John, > > > > > > Good to know. I was also curious if there was any need for neuro-vascular > > > compression of the thigh. I love this stuff and the immediate feedback > for > > > most patients. I see a lot of pain complaints and some from disc issues. > > > Patients seem to be pain free for a couple of days in most cases, even > the > > > disc problems. > > > > > > Michael W. Bowser, DC, LAc > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > johnkokko (AT) gmail (DOT) com > > > Tue, 9 Mar 2010 09:53:47 -0800 > > > Re: Diabetic neuropathy > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mike, > > > > > > Yes.... this patient is the kind of guy who doesn't want to admit that he > > > > > > feels any pressure pain anywhere, > > > > > > except that he complains a lot about his feet neuropathy. > > > > > > So, the oketsu and immune were tight, but no pressure pain elicited from > > > the > > > > > > patient. > > > > > > Of all of the hara reflexes, adrenal (under the navel) came up, so it > > > > > > directed me to KD 6, which halved the pins and needles sensation alone. > > > > > > Also, LV 3 and ST 41 has been very helpful for this patient. > > > > > > While pressing LI 4 strongly, most of the pins/needles would go away > > > > > > completely, so that's his homework. > > > > > > > > > > > > The first treatment, I tried the points for peripheral neuropathy in > > > Kiiko's > > > > > > Clinical Vol 2, but didn't see immediate results, > > > > > > so I tried each point one-by-one checking and rechecking the nerve > > > sensation > > > > > > on the bottom of his feet. > > > > > > Of Kiiko's treatment from pgs. 129-137 in Vol 2, I tried Ren 12, 13, SP > > > 3.2, > > > > > > ST Qi line, Lung 4/ 8, but these were not as effective as the points I > > > wrote > > > > > > out earlier. Surprisingly, ST 36 and GB 34 were not as effective as I > > > would > > > > > > assume. > > > > > > The ankle fulcrum treatment was immediately effective... KD 6, ST 41 and > UB > > > > > > 62, but found that UB 62 was not needed, so retained KD 6 and ST 41. I > > > > > > have yet to try the Kiiko back treatment for peripheral neuropathy (kori > > > > > > around UB 42, lumbar eyes, sugar points around UB 20/21), because the > other > > > > > > treatment was working so well, but it would be worthwhile to do that the > > > > > > next treatment. > > > > > > The second treatment I needled KD 1, which was very lasting through the > > > week > > > > > > and effective, but he requested that I don't needle that point because of > > > > > > the obvious pain that can sometimes occur, so instead, I needle LV 3 > > > > > > thru-thru towards KD 1. > > > > > > > > > > > > Let me know how your treatments go.. it's good to share this info, > > > > > > K > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 11, 2010 Report Share Posted March 11, 2010 Dr. Snow, I'm in complete agreement with your last paragraph. Technology is a tool that can benefit our practices and patients if we know how to wield it in a responsible and effective way. Iron needles developed during the Han dynasty must have been considered advanced technology for the day... Wang Wei-Yi's (987-1067 CE) bronze/wax/water acupuncture man was cutting edge for the day. If we don't embrace technology, we'll still get the memo, but it might be too late. K On Thu, Mar 11, 2010 at 7:27 AM, Donald Snow <don83407 wrote: > > > > I got the information on the back shu points this way. > > At the time, I was in the Doctoral program at PCOM and I chose > Acupuncture's effect on Type II Diabetes as my dissertation capstone project > since I had recently been diagnosed with it. My research was original and > the points used were also, since they were never used for acupuncture > treatment of diabetes historically. I used common sense and logic to come up > with this simple point prescription and then I tried to disprove its effects > via the null hypothesis. The outcomes for the study were not short of > amazing and the outlyers hinted at much more useful general information > about acupuncture such as who responds better, males or females, which races > appear to have a better response, etc. > > By the way, I have been free of diabetes and off all medicines for 3 years > now. Anyone really interested in this research can contact PCOM San Diego; > I'm sure they will get a copy to you. > > It is my firm belief that we have not really begun to see the potential of > our beautiful and powerful medicine. However, for innovation to occur we > must be able to think outside the box. We have a glorious tradition to our > medicine and we must understand the past history and founding theories of OM > just as one must learns form/kata in martial arts. After this, we must > become formless and responsive in our treatments; we must become masters in > our own right. It is our heritage and responsibility to take this medicine > into the 21st century and beyond. To do that, I believe we must free > ourselves from the shackles of this medicine's past (where most of us are > stuck) and bring it to the now. That means changing the way we look at this > medicine and perhaps combining it with new technology. If the great masters > were alive today, I have no doubt that they would use the technology > available and adapt the medicine to the times also; history shows they > always did. That's is why of all the ancient medicines of history, OM is > still intack and still used today. > > Sorry to cut this short but I have patients waiting. I am yours sincerely, > > Dr. Don Snow, DAOM, MPH, L.Ac. > > > To: Chinese Medicine <Chinese Medicine%40yaho\ ogroups.com> > > johnkokko <johnkokko%40gmail.com> > > Wed, 10 Mar 2010 19:40:03 -0800 > > > Re: Diabetic neuropathy > > > > Daniel, > > Yeah... I always go by what the patient shows at that moment, not what it > > should be, > > but I'm interested in how Dr. Snow got the info about the back shu points > > and blood sugar regulation. > > > > In the patient I talked about, LV 3 is very helpful in decreasing the > > peripheral neuropathy > > and taking out some of the wiryness in his pulse, so I would use it > > regardless of how it works on blood sugar theoretically. > > > > But, I think Dr. Snow was specific about UB 18 making blood sugar rise, > not > > just working the Liver... right? > > > > K > > > > > > > > On Wed, Mar 10, 2010 at 3:48 AM, Daniel Schulman > > <daniel.schulman <daniel.schulman%40>>wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Its not been my finding that in all cases, treating 'Liver' makes blood > > > sugar rise.When I do a full 'Kiiko' palpation of the patient, from head > to > > > toe, in some diabetic cases, Liver reflexes are very active and demand > > > attention - in these cases, I presume Liver metabolism of glucose is > part of > > > the 'problem' (at the physiologic level) and when I treat accordingly, > in > > > these cases, blood sugar responds well.I will also add, that in > addition to > > > UB 20, in almost every diabetic patient I have ever treated as well as > any > > > one with sugar metabolism problems of any kind (hypoglycemic > tendencies, > > > etc), Kiiko's sugar imbalance reflex (Hua Tuo Jia Ji of T11 and T12) is > > > almost highly highly reactive (spastic on palpation) and when needled > > > directly, brings about dramatic effect. > > > Daniel > > > > > > --- On Wed, 3/10/10, <johnkokko<johnkokko%40gmail.com> > <johnkokko%40gmail.com>> > > > wrote: > > > > > > <johnkokko <johnkokko%40gmail.com><johnkokko% > 40gmail.com>> > > > > Re: Diabetic neuropathy > > > To: Chinese Medicine <Chinese Medicine%40yaho\ ogroups.com> > <Chinese Medicine%40> > > > > Received: Wednesday, March 10, 2010, 8:30 AM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dr. Snow, > > > > > > Thanks for the findings... > > > > > > Interesting that the SP and KD back-shu points lower blood sugar > levels, > > > but > > > > > > UB 18 (LV) can make blood glucose rise. > > > > > > Is this an instance with wood overacting on earth, making the earth > weaker? > > > > > > As the Nei jing states... when problems with the earth, avoid the sour > > > > > > flavor (LV). > > > > > > K > > > > > > On Tue, Mar 9, 2010 at 10:12 AM, Donald Snow <don83407 (AT) msn (DOT) com> > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Use Kiiko's pachi-pachi e'stim with three needles on each foot with > three > > > > > > > stimulations each. The results should be immediate and profound. This > > > > > > > treatment is even more efficacious when used with a Russian SCENAR > with > > > 60% > > > > > > > to 100% relief on the first visit. It takes 9 to 15 treatments on > average > > > > > > > for permanent resolution of the neuropathy. They must control their > blood > > > > > > > glucose. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To lower blood glucose levels only three points are needed. It is > > > > > > > important to add no other points. Before inserting the needles, get > their > > > > > > > blood glucose level. If it is high, needle the following points: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > PiShu/weiguanxiashu bilat > > > > > > > > > > > > > > UB 23 bilat > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Kid 3 bilat > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Retain needle for 30 minutes and retest their BCG. It should drop > > > > > > > significantly. If you misplace pishu and needle UB 18, their BCG will > > > rise. > > > > > > > Therefore, it is important to have the correct locations. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If you want to know more about this protocol, contact PCOM and ask > for > > > Dr. > > > > > > > Snow's doctoral dissertation on Diabetes. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dr. Don Snow, DAOM, MPH, L.Ac. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > johnkokko (AT) gmail (DOT) com > > > > > > > Tue, 9 Mar 2010 09:53:47 -0800 > > > > > > > Re: Diabetic neuropathy > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mike, > > > > > > > Yes.... this patient is the kind of guy who doesn't want to admit > that he > > > > > > > feels any pressure pain anywhere, > > > > > > > except that he complains a lot about his feet neuropathy. > > > > > > > So, the oketsu and immune were tight, but no pressure pain elicited > from > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > patient. > > > > > > > Of all of the hara reflexes, adrenal (under the navel) came up, so it > > > > > > > directed me to KD 6, which halved the pins and needles sensation > alone. > > > > > > > Also, LV 3 and ST 41 has been very helpful for this patient. > > > > > > > While pressing LI 4 strongly, most of the pins/needles would go away > > > > > > > completely, so that's his homework. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The first treatment, I tried the points for peripheral neuropathy in > > > > > > > Kiiko's > > > > > > > Clinical Vol 2, but didn't see immediate results, > > > > > > > so I tried each point one-by-one checking and rechecking the nerve > > > > > > > sensation > > > > > > > on the bottom of his feet. > > > > > > > Of Kiiko's treatment from pgs. 129-137 in Vol 2, I tried Ren 12, 13, > SP > > > > > > > 3.2, > > > > > > > ST Qi line, Lung 4/ 8, but these were not as effective as the points > I > > > > > > > wrote > > > > > > > out earlier. Surprisingly, ST 36 and GB 34 were not as effective as I > > > would > > > > > > > assume. > > > > > > > The ankle fulcrum treatment was immediately effective... KD 6, ST 41 > and > > > UB > > > > > > > 62, but found that UB 62 was not needed, so retained KD 6 and ST 41. > I > > > > > > > have yet to try the Kiiko back treatment for peripheral neuropathy > (kori > > > > > > > around UB 42, lumbar eyes, sugar points around UB 20/21), because the > > > other > > > > > > > treatment was working so well, but it would be worthwhile to do that > the > > > > > > > next treatment. > > > > > > > The second treatment I needled KD 1, which was very lasting through > the > > > > > > > week > > > > > > > and effective, but he requested that I don't needle that point > because of > > > > > > > the obvious pain that can sometimes occur, so instead, I needle LV 3 > > > > > > > thru-thru towards KD 1. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Let me know how your treatments go.. it's good to share this info, > > > > > > > K > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 11, 2010 Report Share Posted March 11, 2010 I used these points as empirical and I did not do any TCM diagnostics. Blood glucose levels dropped very significantly in 70% of all patients treated, and they dropped immediately and continued to drop for the remainder of the day. It must be noted that I did, indeed, experiment with other points in addition to my protocol. The result was that 100% of the time, the patient's BCG did not drop at all and even increased. That means that to get the desired results, the protocol must be rigidly followed. Sorry if that info was disappointing, but that was the research outcome. Sincerely, Dr. Don Snow, DAOM, MPH, L.Ac. Chinese Medicine daniel.schulman Wed, 10 Mar 2010 03:48:04 -0800 Re: Diabetic neuropathy Its not been my finding that in all cases, treating 'Liver' makes blood sugar rise.When I do a full 'Kiiko' palpation of the patient, from head to toe, in some diabetic cases, Liver reflexes are very active and demand attention - in these cases, I presume Liver metabolism of glucose is part of the 'problem' (at the physiologic level) and when I treat accordingly, in these cases, blood sugar responds well.I will also add, that in addition to UB 20, in almost every diabetic patient I have ever treated as well as any one with sugar metabolism problems of any kind (hypoglycemic tendencies, etc), Kiiko's sugar imbalance reflex (Hua Tuo Jia Ji of T11 and T12) is almost highly highly reactive (spastic on palpation) and when needled directly, brings about dramatic effect. Daniel --- On Wed, 3/10/10, <johnkokko wrote: <johnkokko Re: Diabetic neuropathy Chinese Medicine Received: Wednesday, March 10, 2010, 8:30 AM Dr. Snow, Thanks for the findings... Interesting that the SP and KD back-shu points lower blood sugar levels, but UB 18 (LV) can make blood glucose rise. Is this an instance with wood overacting on earth, making the earth weaker? As the Nei jing states... when problems with the earth, avoid the sour flavor (LV). K On Tue, Mar 9, 2010 at 10:12 AM, Donald Snow <don83407 (AT) msn (DOT) com> wrote: > > Use Kiiko's pachi-pachi e'stim with three needles on each foot with three > stimulations each. The results should be immediate and profound. This > treatment is even more efficacious when used with a Russian SCENAR with 60% > to 100% relief on the first visit. It takes 9 to 15 treatments on average > for permanent resolution of the neuropathy. They must control their blood > glucose. > > > > To lower blood glucose levels only three points are needed. It is > important to add no other points. Before inserting the needles, get their > blood glucose level. If it is high, needle the following points: > > > > PiShu/weiguanxiashu bilat > > UB 23 bilat > > Kid 3 bilat > > > > Retain needle for 30 minutes and retest their BCG. It should drop > significantly. If you misplace pishu and needle UB 18, their BCG will rise. > Therefore, it is important to have the correct locations. > > If you want to know more about this protocol, contact PCOM and ask for Dr. > Snow's doctoral dissertation on Diabetes. > > > > Dr. Don Snow, DAOM, MPH, L.Ac. > > > > > johnkokko (AT) gmail (DOT) com > Tue, 9 Mar 2010 09:53:47 -0800 > Re: Diabetic neuropathy > > > > > > Mike, > Yes.... this patient is the kind of guy who doesn't want to admit that he > feels any pressure pain anywhere, > except that he complains a lot about his feet neuropathy. > So, the oketsu and immune were tight, but no pressure pain elicited from > the > patient. > Of all of the hara reflexes, adrenal (under the navel) came up, so it > directed me to KD 6, which halved the pins and needles sensation alone. > Also, LV 3 and ST 41 has been very helpful for this patient. > While pressing LI 4 strongly, most of the pins/needles would go away > completely, so that's his homework. > > The first treatment, I tried the points for peripheral neuropathy in > Kiiko's > Clinical Vol 2, but didn't see immediate results, > so I tried each point one-by-one checking and rechecking the nerve > sensation > on the bottom of his feet. > Of Kiiko's treatment from pgs. 129-137 in Vol 2, I tried Ren 12, 13, SP > 3.2, > ST Qi line, Lung 4/ 8, but these were not as effective as the points I > wrote > out earlier. Surprisingly, ST 36 and GB 34 were not as effective as I would > assume. > The ankle fulcrum treatment was immediately effective... KD 6, ST 41 and UB > 62, but found that UB 62 was not needed, so retained KD 6 and ST 41. I > have yet to try the Kiiko back treatment for peripheral neuropathy (kori > around UB 42, lumbar eyes, sugar points around UB 20/21), because the other > treatment was working so well, but it would be worthwhile to do that the > next treatment. > The second treatment I needled KD 1, which was very lasting through the > week > and effective, but he requested that I don't needle that point because of > the obvious pain that can sometimes occur, so instead, I needle LV 3 > thru-thru towards KD 1. > > Let me know how your treatments go.. it's good to share this info, > K > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 12, 2010 Report Share Posted March 12, 2010 This is so great. Thanks for the info! I will try this protocal the next treatment. Petra --- On Thu, 3/11/10, Donald Snow <don83407 wrote: Donald Snow <don83407 RE: Diabetic neuropathy Chinese Traditional Medicine Thursday, March 11, 2010, 9:16 AM I used these points as empirical and I did not do any TCM diagnostics. Blood glucose levels dropped very significantly in 70% of all patients treated, and they dropped immediately and continued to drop for the remainder of the day. It must be noted that I did, indeed, experiment with other points in addition to my protocol. The result was that 100% of the time, the patient's BCG did not drop at all and even increased. That means that to get the desired results, the protocol must be rigidly followed. Sorry if that info was disappointing, but that was the research outcome. Sincerely, Dr. Don Snow, DAOM, MPH, L.Ac. Chinese Medicine daniel.schulman Wed, 10 Mar 2010 03:48:04 -0800 Re: Diabetic neuropathy Its not been my finding that in all cases, treating 'Liver' makes blood sugar rise.When I do a full 'Kiiko' palpation of the patient, from head to toe, in some diabetic cases, Liver reflexes are very active and demand attention - in these cases, I presume Liver metabolism of glucose is part of the 'problem' (at the physiologic level) and when I treat accordingly, in these cases, blood sugar responds well.I will also add, that in addition to UB 20, in almost every diabetic patient I have ever treated as well as any one with sugar metabolism problems of any kind (hypoglycemic tendencies, etc), Kiiko's sugar imbalance reflex (Hua Tuo Jia Ji of T11 and T12) is almost highly highly reactive (spastic on palpation) and when needled directly, brings about dramatic effect. Daniel --- On Wed, 3/10/10, <johnkokko wrote: <johnkokko Re: Diabetic neuropathy Chinese Medicine Received: Wednesday, March 10, 2010, 8:30 AM Dr. Snow, Thanks for the findings... Interesting that the SP and KD back-shu points lower blood sugar levels, but UB 18 (LV) can make blood glucose rise. Is this an instance with wood overacting on earth, making the earth weaker? As the Nei jing states... when problems with the earth, avoid the sour flavor (LV). K On Tue, Mar 9, 2010 at 10:12 AM, Donald Snow <don83407 (AT) msn (DOT) com> wrote: > > Use Kiiko's pachi-pachi e'stim with three needles on each foot with three > stimulations each. The results should be immediate and profound. This > treatment is even more efficacious when used with a Russian SCENAR with 60% > to 100% relief on the first visit. It takes 9 to 15 treatments on average > for permanent resolution of the neuropathy. They must control their blood > glucose. > > > > To lower blood glucose levels only three points are needed. It is > important to add no other points. Before inserting the needles, get their > blood glucose level. If it is high, needle the following points: > > > > PiShu/weiguanxiashu bilat > > UB 23 bilat > > Kid 3 bilat > > > > Retain needle for 30 minutes and retest their BCG. It should drop > significantly. If you misplace pishu and needle UB 18, their BCG will rise. > Therefore, it is important to have the correct locations. > > If you want to know more about this protocol, contact PCOM and ask for Dr. > Snow's doctoral dissertation on Diabetes. > > > > Dr. Don Snow, DAOM, MPH, L.Ac. > > > > > johnkokko (AT) gmail (DOT) com > Tue, 9 Mar 2010 09:53:47 -0800 > Re: Diabetic neuropathy > > > > > > Mike, > Yes.... this patient is the kind of guy who doesn't want to admit that he > feels any pressure pain anywhere, > except that he complains a lot about his feet neuropathy. > So, the oketsu and immune were tight, but no pressure pain elicited from > the > patient. > Of all of the hara reflexes, adrenal (under the navel) came up, so it > directed me to KD 6, which halved the pins and needles sensation alone. > Also, LV 3 and ST 41 has been very helpful for this patient. > While pressing LI 4 strongly, most of the pins/needles would go away > completely, so that's his homework. > > The first treatment, I tried the points for peripheral neuropathy in > Kiiko's > Clinical Vol 2, but didn't see immediate results, > so I tried each point one-by-one checking and rechecking the nerve > sensation > on the bottom of his feet. > Of Kiiko's treatment from pgs. 129-137 in Vol 2, I tried Ren 12, 13, SP > 3.2, > ST Qi line, Lung 4/ 8, but these were not as effective as the points I > wrote > out earlier. Surprisingly, ST 36 and GB 34 were not as effective as I would > assume. > The ankle fulcrum treatment was immediately effective... KD 6, ST 41 and UB > 62, but found that UB 62 was not needed, so retained KD 6 and ST 41. I > have yet to try the Kiiko back treatment for peripheral neuropathy (kori > around UB 42, lumbar eyes, sugar points around UB 20/21), because the other > treatment was working so well, but it would be worthwhile to do that the > next treatment. > The second treatment I needled KD 1, which was very lasting through the > week > and effective, but he requested that I don't needle that point because of > the obvious pain that can sometimes occur, so instead, I needle LV 3 > thru-thru towards KD 1. > > Let me know how your treatments go.. it's good to share this info, > K > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 12, 2010 Report Share Posted March 12, 2010 I will try this as well, thank you John!! --- On Wed, 3/10/10, <johnkokko wrote: <johnkokko Re: Diabetic neuropathy Chinese Medicine Wednesday, March 10, 2010, 7:56 PM Hi Petra, just an idea... ear needles? This is from the Auriculotherapy Manual 2nd edition by Terry Oleson pg. 184 Peripheral Neuralgia: primary points: corresponding body area (feet/legs), spinal sensory neurons (sacral area on the antehelix), point zero, shen men secondary points: thalamus, brain, autonomic, sympathetic chain, adrenal gland (chinese), posterior hypothalamus, master sensorial, endocrine point It's definitely fun to try different protocols... shen men, point zero and sympathetic works pretty good for almost everything. K On Wed, Mar 10, 2010 at 5:02 PM, Petra Buchanan <petrabuchananwrote: > > > That is great to hear. So I treated her for the second time on monday and > she had a really strong reaction. She started shaking strongly. So I took > the needles out and did some moxa at ST 36 and KI 3. We are going to try > again next week but with only a few needles this time. Any advice? > > --- On Wed, 3/10/10, lee tritt <ladylee0999<ladylee0999%40>> > wrote: > > lee tritt <ladylee0999 <ladylee0999%40>> > > Re: Diabetic neuropathy > To: Chinese Medicine <Chinese Medicine%40yaho\ ogroups.com> > Wednesday, March 10, 2010, 10:38 AM > > > > > I have a patient who had diabetic neuropathy. He was seeing me for back > pain and, of course, I also treated spleen, GB and Kidney points on his legs > along with the Ashi points on his back. When he went to his neurologist, > they determined the neuropathy was completely gone. The gentleman told the > doctor that I was responsible for his improvement. The doctor just walked > around the exam room scratching his head because, you know, acupuncture cant > help with diabetic neuropathy. > > Lee Tritt > > ____________ _________ _________ __ > > mike Bowser <naturaldoc1@ hotmail.com> > > traditional_ chinese_medicine > > Tue, March 9, 2010 5:49:09 PM > > RE: Diabetic neuropathy > > John, > > Good to know. I was also curious if there was any need for neuro-vascular > compression of the thigh. I love this stuff and the immediate feedback for > most patients. I see a lot of pain complaints and some from disc issues. > Patients seem to be pain free for a couple of days in most cases, even the > disc problems. > > Michael W. Bowser, DC, LAc > > > > johnkokko (AT) gmail (DOT) com > > Tue, 9 Mar 2010 09:53:47 -0800 > > Re: Diabetic neuropathy > > Mike, > > Yes.... this patient is the kind of guy who doesn't want to admit that he > > feels any pressure pain anywhere, > > except that he complains a lot about his feet neuropathy. > > So, the oketsu and immune were tight, but no pressure pain elicited from > the > > patient. > > Of all of the hara reflexes, adrenal (under the navel) came up, so it > > directed me to KD 6, which halved the pins and needles sensation alone. > > Also, LV 3 and ST 41 has been very helpful for this patient. > > While pressing LI 4 strongly, most of the pins/needles would go away > > completely, so that's his homework. > > The first treatment, I tried the points for peripheral neuropathy in > Kiiko's > > Clinical Vol 2, but didn't see immediate results, > > so I tried each point one-by-one checking and rechecking the nerve > sensation > > on the bottom of his feet. > > Of Kiiko's treatment from pgs. 129-137 in Vol 2, I tried Ren 12, 13, SP > 3.2, > > ST Qi line, Lung 4/ 8, but these were not as effective as the points I > wrote > > out earlier. Surprisingly, ST 36 and GB 34 were not as effective as I would > > assume. > > The ankle fulcrum treatment was immediately effective... KD 6, ST 41 and UB > > 62, but found that UB 62 was not needed, so retained KD 6 and ST 41. I > > have yet to try the Kiiko back treatment for peripheral neuropathy (kori > > around UB 42, lumbar eyes, sugar points around UB 20/21), because the other > > treatment was working so well, but it would be worthwhile to do that the > > next treatment. > > The second treatment I needled KD 1, which was very lasting through the > week > > and effective, but he requested that I don't needle that point because of > > the obvious pain that can sometimes occur, so instead, I needle LV 3 > > thru-thru towards KD 1. > > Let me know how your treatments go.. it's good to share this info, > > K > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 12, 2010 Report Share Posted March 12, 2010 Great, I will keep this in mind next time I see her. Xue Fu zhu yu tang is one of my favorite formulas --- On Tue, 3/9/10, <johnkokko wrote: <johnkokko Re: Diabetic neuropathy Chinese Medicine Tuesday, March 9, 2010, 7:01 AM one clarification... the classical Sun Si Miao formulation of Du huo ji sheng tang has Sheng Di, but the Mayway 5:1 concentrated powder formula has Shu di huang, which is the one I used for this patient for one week. The Mayway 5:1 concentrated powder of Xue fu zhu yu tang has Sheng Di huang in it, as it was traditionally formulated by Wang Qing-Ren. Du huo ji sheng tang expels wind-cold-damp Bi and tonifies deficiency. Xue fu zhu yu tang tonifies blood and moves blood and Qi. My diabetic neuropathy patient has major LV qi stagnation and KD def (eyebrow hairs falling out, wears hearing aids), not the same presentation as Petra's patient, but still blood xu. Anyone else have experiences using Shu di vs Sheng di in the context of diabetic patients? Thanks, K On Tue, Mar 9, 2010 at 12:31 AM, <johnkokko wrote: > Petra, > Your patient has been drinking concentrated fermented sugars every night > for years. > That's like eating a piece of cake every night. > > I'm also seeing a diabetic neuropathy patient who responded much better > with > Xue fu zhu yu tang than Yu quan wan (a specific diabetic formula) or Du huo > ji sheng tang.(for promoting Qi and Blood circulation to the legs). > > I'm thinking that Xue fu zhu yu tang has Si ni san in it, which is getting > Qi to the extremities, as well as moving and tonifying blood. Also, Sheng > di is used in it, whereas Shu di is used in Du huo ji sheng tang. My > patient checks his blood sugar daily and found that it spiked when he was on > Du huo ji sheng tang, but reduced on Xue fu zhu yu tang. Also, XFZYT kept > his pins and needles at a 2/10 for the week on most days. DHJST kept it at > a 4/10. > > In 5 treatments, he went from a 9/10 to 2/10 by using Xue fu zhu yu san... > 4.5 gms of 5:1 concentrated powder twice / day > and the following points that I checked his foot sensation response with > directly after needling each point: Ear: shen men, sympathetic Yin > tang, LI 4, KD 6, SP 6, ST 41, LV 3 > I checked many other points, which failed to change his sensory response. > The ones above brought the pins and needles sensation down to .5-1 out of 10 > after each session. > The days following, his foot sensation would be influenced by the herbal > formula he was on. > > Hope this helps, > K > > > > > On Mon, Mar 8, 2010 at 6:58 PM, Petra Buchanan <petrabuchananwrote: > >> >> >> So I said peeled. or meant to. It was very red actually. This week she >> came in and it was much paler. Then she informed me that since her last >> treatment she had had nothing to drink and that she had been having two >> glasses of wine every night for years. So yes, now I do think I need to add >> some qi and blood tonics to the formula. Thank you for picking up on that. >> >> --- On Sun, 3/7/10, Dr. Jean G. F. Joaquim <jeanvet<jeanvet%40>> >> wrote: >> >> Dr. Jean G. F. Joaquim <jeanvet <jeanvet%40>> >> >> Re: Diabetic neuropathy >> To: Chinese Medicine <Chinese Medicine%40yaho\ ogroups.com> >> Sunday, March 7, 2010, 6:09 PM >> >> >> >> >> Dear Petra. >> >> The tongue shows more a Qi Xu than Yin Xu, because it is pale. >> >> So I would add herbs such as: >> >> - Huang Qi >> >> - Shu Di Huang. >> >> Greetings, >> >> Jean >> >> Abraços/ Saludos/ Greetings >> >> Jean >> >> Jean G.F. Joaquim, >> >> DVM, MSc, Dr. >> >> Coordenador Científico Bioethicus >> >> ABRAVET, IVAS, NEUROLATINVET and IVAPM Member >> >> Vet. Acupuncture and Homeopathie >> >> www.bioethicus. com.br >> >> Curar, frequentemente aliviar, confortar sempre. >> >> You bring your animal. We bring the cure. >> >> ____________ _________ _________ __ >> >> petrabuchanan <petrabuchanan@ > >> >> >> >> Sun, March 7, 2010 10:58:32 PM >> >> Diabetic neuropathy >> >> >> >> I have a 49 yo patient with severe burning pain in the bones of her feet. >> She claims it is not a neuropathy but that is the best definition I have >> found. She also has low back and joint pain. Onset one and a half years ago. >> >> Type one Diabetes. onset 1985. Low thyroid, onset 1994. >> >> Drugs: Armor thyroid, Lisinopril, Insulin(pump) >> >> No thirst. Dry skin, hair and nails. Very low energy. Wakes to urinate 2 x >> nightly. >> >> Pulse: tiny and thin on top then deep and slippery. >> >> Tongue: Very swollen, cracked and peeled. >> >> My main question is regarding herbs. I have diagnosed her with severe yin >> deficiency and damp heat stagnation. The formula I put together contains a >> few herbs that have anti-diabetic properties. Is this going to be too much >> with the Insulin and cause hypoglycemia. From what I have read there is no >> proof of this happening just a caution. I am wondering if we slowly build >> her herbs up and watch for this would that be adaquite, and would it >> hopefully lead to a reduction in the amount of insulin that she would need? >> Otherwise should I just remove those herbs? It is only Shan Yao, and Cang >> Zhu >> >> Her full formula is >> >> yi yi ren 15 >> >> fu ling 10 >> >> niu xi 10 >> >> mu gua 9 >> >> dang gui wei 9 >> >> cang zhu 8 >> >> huang bai 9 >> >> han fang ji 9 >> >> bei jia 9 >> >> huang qin 9 >> >> ze xie 9 >> >> qin jiao 9 >> >> mai men dong 12 >> >> sha shen 12 >> >> tian hua fen 12 >> >> shan yao 12 >> >> sang bai pi 10 (she also has a chronic dry cough) >> >> Any input would be greatly appreciated. Also my last patient that I asked >> about (ankylosing spondylitis/ MRSA). Can't say I had the best results. His >> back is pretty deteriorated and his lifestyle was not helping much. >> >> Petra >> >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 12, 2010 Report Share Posted March 12, 2010 I love this forum! It is so great to be exposed to so many people with such an understanding of the minutea of chinese medicine. I never would have considered that element yet it makes perfect sense. Thank you John --- On Tue, 3/9/10, <johnkokko wrote: <johnkokko Re: Diabetic neuropathy Chinese Medicine Tuesday, March 9, 2010, 12:07 AM Hi Jean, I would be cautious with Shu di, because it is very sweet (sugary), the way it's processed with wine, which might spike the diabetic's blood sugar. Usually Shu di is a larger dose in any formula. Thoughts? K On Sun, Mar 7, 2010 at 6:09 PM, Dr. Jean G. F. Joaquim <jeanvetwrote: > > > Dear Petra. > The tongue shows more a Qi Xu than Yin Xu, because it is pale. > So I would add herbs such as: > - Huang Qi > - Shu Di Huang. > Greetings, > Jean > Abraços/ Saludos/ Greetings > Jean > > Jean G.F. Joaquim, > DVM, MSc, Dr. > Coordenador Científico Bioethicus > ABRAVET, IVAS, NEUROLATINVET and IVAPM Member > Vet. Acupuncture and Homeopathie > www.bioethicus.com.br > Curar, frequentemente aliviar, confortar sempre. > You bring your animal. We bring the cure. > > ________________________________ > petrabuchanan <petrabuchanan <petrabuchanan%40>> > To: Chinese Medicine <Chinese Medicine%40yaho\ ogroups.com> > Sun, March 7, 2010 10:58:32 PM > Diabetic neuropathy > > > > I have a 49 yo patient with severe burning pain in the bones of her feet. > She claims it is not a neuropathy but that is the best definition I have > found. She also has low back and joint pain. Onset one and a half years ago. > > Type one Diabetes. onset 1985. Low thyroid, onset 1994. > Drugs: Armor thyroid, Lisinopril, Insulin(pump) > > No thirst. Dry skin, hair and nails. Very low energy. Wakes to urinate 2 x > nightly. > Pulse: tiny and thin on top then deep and slippery. > Tongue: Very swollen, cracked and peeled. > > My main question is regarding herbs. I have diagnosed her with severe yin > deficiency and damp heat stagnation. The formula I put together contains a > few herbs that have anti-diabetic properties. Is this going to be too much > with the Insulin and cause hypoglycemia. From what I have read there is no > proof of this happening just a caution. I am wondering if we slowly build > her herbs up and watch for this would that be adaquite, and would it > hopefully lead to a reduction in the amount of insulin that she would need? > Otherwise should I just remove those herbs? It is only Shan Yao, and Cang > Zhu > > Her full formula is > yi yi ren 15 > fu ling 10 > niu xi 10 > mu gua 9 > dang gui wei 9 > cang zhu 8 > huang bai 9 > han fang ji 9 > bei jia 9 > huang qin 9 > ze xie 9 > qin jiao 9 > mai men dong 12 > sha shen 12 > tian hua fen 12 > shan yao 12 > sang bai pi 10 (she also has a chronic dry cough) > > Any input would be greatly appreciated. Also my last patient that I asked > about (ankylosing spondylitis/ MRSA). Can't say I had the best results. His > back is pretty deteriorated and his lifestyle was not helping much. > > Petra > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 16, 2010 Report Share Posted March 16, 2010 Hi Donald, I am a little confused. You said three points and there are four points you mentioned. Should I use Pi Shu or Wei Guan Xia Shu or both? Thank you, Petra Also my patient is starting to feel stronger and has more energy! --- On Thu, 3/11/10, Donald Snow <don83407 wrote: Donald Snow <don83407 RE: Diabetic neuropathy Chinese Traditional Medicine Thursday, March 11, 2010, 9:16 AM I used these points as empirical and I did not do any TCM diagnostics. Blood glucose levels dropped very significantly in 70% of all patients treated, and they dropped immediately and continued to drop for the remainder of the day. It must be noted that I did, indeed, experiment with other points in addition to my protocol. The result was that 100% of the time, the patient's BCG did not drop at all and even increased. That means that to get the desired results, the protocol must be rigidly followed. Sorry if that info was disappointing, but that was the research outcome. Sincerely, Dr. Don Snow, DAOM, MPH, L.Ac. Chinese Medicine daniel.schulman Wed, 10 Mar 2010 03:48:04 -0800 Re: Diabetic neuropathy Its not been my finding that in all cases, treating 'Liver' makes blood sugar rise.When I do a full 'Kiiko' palpation of the patient, from head to toe, in some diabetic cases, Liver reflexes are very active and demand attention - in these cases, I presume Liver metabolism of glucose is part of the 'problem' (at the physiologic level) and when I treat accordingly, in these cases, blood sugar responds well.I will also add, that in addition to UB 20, in almost every diabetic patient I have ever treated as well as any one with sugar metabolism problems of any kind (hypoglycemic tendencies, etc), Kiiko's sugar imbalance reflex (Hua Tuo Jia Ji of T11 and T12) is almost highly highly reactive (spastic on palpation) and when needled directly, brings about dramatic effect. Daniel --- On Wed, 3/10/10, <johnkokko wrote: <johnkokko Re: Diabetic neuropathy Chinese Medicine Received: Wednesday, March 10, 2010, 8:30 AM Dr. Snow, Thanks for the findings... Interesting that the SP and KD back-shu points lower blood sugar levels, but UB 18 (LV) can make blood glucose rise. Is this an instance with wood overacting on earth, making the earth weaker? As the Nei jing states... when problems with the earth, avoid the sour flavor (LV). K On Tue, Mar 9, 2010 at 10:12 AM, Donald Snow <don83407 (AT) msn (DOT) com> wrote: > > Use Kiiko's pachi-pachi e'stim with three needles on each foot with three > stimulations each. The results should be immediate and profound. This > treatment is even more efficacious when used with a Russian SCENAR with 60% > to 100% relief on the first visit. It takes 9 to 15 treatments on average > for permanent resolution of the neuropathy. They must control their blood > glucose. > > > > To lower blood glucose levels only three points are needed. It is > important to add no other points. Before inserting the needles, get their > blood glucose level. If it is high, needle the following points: > > > > PiShu/weiguanxiashu bilat > > UB 23 bilat > > Kid 3 bilat > > > > Retain needle for 30 minutes and retest their BCG. It should drop > significantly. If you misplace pishu and needle UB 18, their BCG will rise. > Therefore, it is important to have the correct locations. > > If you want to know more about this protocol, contact PCOM and ask for Dr. > Snow's doctoral dissertation on Diabetes. > > > > Dr. Don Snow, DAOM, MPH, L.Ac. > > > > > johnkokko (AT) gmail (DOT) com > Tue, 9 Mar 2010 09:53:47 -0800 > Re: Diabetic neuropathy > > > > > > Mike, > Yes.... this patient is the kind of guy who doesn't want to admit that he > feels any pressure pain anywhere, > except that he complains a lot about his feet neuropathy. > So, the oketsu and immune were tight, but no pressure pain elicited from > the > patient. > Of all of the hara reflexes, adrenal (under the navel) came up, so it > directed me to KD 6, which halved the pins and needles sensation alone. > Also, LV 3 and ST 41 has been very helpful for this patient. > While pressing LI 4 strongly, most of the pins/needles would go away > completely, so that's his homework. > > The first treatment, I tried the points for peripheral neuropathy in > Kiiko's > Clinical Vol 2, but didn't see immediate results, > so I tried each point one-by-one checking and rechecking the nerve > sensation > on the bottom of his feet. > Of Kiiko's treatment from pgs. 129-137 in Vol 2, I tried Ren 12, 13, SP > 3.2, > ST Qi line, Lung 4/ 8, but these were not as effective as the points I > wrote > out earlier. Surprisingly, ST 36 and GB 34 were not as effective as I would > assume. > The ankle fulcrum treatment was immediately effective... KD 6, ST 41 and UB > 62, but found that UB 62 was not needed, so retained KD 6 and ST 41. I > have yet to try the Kiiko back treatment for peripheral neuropathy (kori > around UB 42, lumbar eyes, sugar points around UB 20/21), because the other > treatment was working so well, but it would be worthwhile to do that the > next treatment. > The second treatment I needled KD 1, which was very lasting through the > week > and effective, but he requested that I don't needle that point because of > the obvious pain that can sometimes occur, so instead, I needle LV 3 > thru-thru towards KD 1. > > Let me know how your treatments go.. it's good to share this info, > K > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 16, 2010 Report Share Posted March 16, 2010 I'm so sorry for the confusion. I meant Yishu/Weiguanxiashu. Hope this works for you. I am sincerely, Don Snow Chinese Medicine petrabuchanan Mon, 15 Mar 2010 19:20:21 -0700 RE: Diabetic neuropathy Hi Donald, I am a little confused. You said three points and there are four points you mentioned. Should I use Pi Shu or Wei Guan Xia Shu or both? Thank you, Petra Also my patient is starting to feel stronger and has more energy! --- On Thu, 3/11/10, Donald Snow <don83407 wrote: Donald Snow <don83407 RE: Diabetic neuropathy Chinese Traditional Medicine Thursday, March 11, 2010, 9:16 AM I used these points as empirical and I did not do any TCM diagnostics. Blood glucose levels dropped very significantly in 70% of all patients treated, and they dropped immediately and continued to drop for the remainder of the day. It must be noted that I did, indeed, experiment with other points in addition to my protocol. The result was that 100% of the time, the patient's BCG did not drop at all and even increased. That means that to get the desired results, the protocol must be rigidly followed. Sorry if that info was disappointing, but that was the research outcome. Sincerely, Dr. Don Snow, DAOM, MPH, L.Ac. Chinese Medicine daniel.schulman Wed, 10 Mar 2010 03:48:04 -0800 Re: Diabetic neuropathy Its not been my finding that in all cases, treating 'Liver' makes blood sugar rise.When I do a full 'Kiiko' palpation of the patient, from head to toe, in some diabetic cases, Liver reflexes are very active and demand attention - in these cases, I presume Liver metabolism of glucose is part of the 'problem' (at the physiologic level) and when I treat accordingly, in these cases, blood sugar responds well.I will also add, that in addition to UB 20, in almost every diabetic patient I have ever treated as well as any one with sugar metabolism problems of any kind (hypoglycemic tendencies, etc), Kiiko's sugar imbalance reflex (Hua Tuo Jia Ji of T11 and T12) is almost highly highly reactive (spastic on palpation) and when needled directly, brings about dramatic effect. Daniel --- On Wed, 3/10/10, <johnkokko wrote: <johnkokko Re: Diabetic neuropathy Chinese Medicine Received: Wednesday, March 10, 2010, 8:30 AM Dr. Snow, Thanks for the findings... Interesting that the SP and KD back-shu points lower blood sugar levels, but UB 18 (LV) can make blood glucose rise. Is this an instance with wood overacting on earth, making the earth weaker? As the Nei jing states... when problems with the earth, avoid the sour flavor (LV). K On Tue, Mar 9, 2010 at 10:12 AM, Donald Snow <don83407 (AT) msn (DOT) com> wrote: > > Use Kiiko's pachi-pachi e'stim with three needles on each foot with three > stimulations each. The results should be immediate and profound. This > treatment is even more efficacious when used with a Russian SCENAR with 60% > to 100% relief on the first visit. It takes 9 to 15 treatments on average > for permanent resolution of the neuropathy. They must control their blood > glucose. > > > > To lower blood glucose levels only three points are needed. It is > important to add no other points. Before inserting the needles, get their > blood glucose level. If it is high, needle the following points: > > > > PiShu/weiguanxiashu bilat > > UB 23 bilat > > Kid 3 bilat > > > > Retain needle for 30 minutes and retest their BCG. It should drop > significantly. If you misplace pishu and needle UB 18, their BCG will rise. > Therefore, it is important to have the correct locations. > > If you want to know more about this protocol, contact PCOM and ask for Dr. > Snow's doctoral dissertation on Diabetes. > > > > Dr. Don Snow, DAOM, MPH, L.Ac. > > > > > johnkokko (AT) gmail (DOT) com > Tue, 9 Mar 2010 09:53:47 -0800 > Re: Diabetic neuropathy > > > > > > Mike, > Yes.... this patient is the kind of guy who doesn't want to admit that he > feels any pressure pain anywhere, > except that he complains a lot about his feet neuropathy. > So, the oketsu and immune were tight, but no pressure pain elicited from > the > patient. > Of all of the hara reflexes, adrenal (under the navel) came up, so it > directed me to KD 6, which halved the pins and needles sensation alone. > Also, LV 3 and ST 41 has been very helpful for this patient. > While pressing LI 4 strongly, most of the pins/needles would go away > completely, so that's his homework. > > The first treatment, I tried the points for peripheral neuropathy in > Kiiko's > Clinical Vol 2, but didn't see immediate results, > so I tried each point one-by-one checking and rechecking the nerve > sensation > on the bottom of his feet. > Of Kiiko's treatment from pgs. 129-137 in Vol 2, I tried Ren 12, 13, SP > 3.2, > ST Qi line, Lung 4/ 8, but these were not as effective as the points I > wrote > out earlier. Surprisingly, ST 36 and GB 34 were not as effective as I would > assume. > The ankle fulcrum treatment was immediately effective... KD 6, ST 41 and UB > 62, but found that UB 62 was not needed, so retained KD 6 and ST 41. I > have yet to try the Kiiko back treatment for peripheral neuropathy (kori > around UB 42, lumbar eyes, sugar points around UB 20/21), because the other > treatment was working so well, but it would be worthwhile to do that the > next treatment. > The second treatment I needled KD 1, which was very lasting through the > week > and effective, but he requested that I don't needle that point because of > the obvious pain that can sometimes occur, so instead, I needle LV 3 > thru-thru towards KD 1. > > Let me know how your treatments go.. it's good to share this info, > K > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 23, 2010 Report Share Posted March 23, 2010 Thank you for clarifying that. So with the herbs alone my patient is feeling much stronger. She had a strong reaction to the needles the second time so last time I only applied KI 3 bilaterally and she was fine. So this week when she comes in I will try your protocol. Thank you again, Petra --- On Tue, 3/16/10, Donald Snow <don83407 wrote: Donald Snow <don83407 RE: Diabetic neuropathy Chinese Traditional Medicine Tuesday, March 16, 2010, 7:36 AM I'm so sorry for the confusion. I meant Yishu/Weiguanxiashu. Hope this works for you. I am sincerely, Don Snow Chinese Medicine petrabuchanan Mon, 15 Mar 2010 19:20:21 -0700 RE: Diabetic neuropathy Hi Donald, I am a little confused. You said three points and there are four points you mentioned. Should I use Pi Shu or Wei Guan Xia Shu or both? Thank you, Petra Also my patient is starting to feel stronger and has more energy! --- On Thu, 3/11/10, Donald Snow <don83407 wrote: Donald Snow <don83407 RE: Diabetic neuropathy Chinese Traditional Medicine Thursday, March 11, 2010, 9:16 AM I used these points as empirical and I did not do any TCM diagnostics. Blood glucose levels dropped very significantly in 70% of all patients treated, and they dropped immediately and continued to drop for the remainder of the day. It must be noted that I did, indeed, experiment with other points in addition to my protocol. The result was that 100% of the time, the patient's BCG did not drop at all and even increased. That means that to get the desired results, the protocol must be rigidly followed. Sorry if that info was disappointing, but that was the research outcome. Sincerely, Dr. Don Snow, DAOM, MPH, L.Ac. Chinese Medicine daniel.schulman Wed, 10 Mar 2010 03:48:04 -0800 Re: Diabetic neuropathy Its not been my finding that in all cases, treating 'Liver' makes blood sugar rise.When I do a full 'Kiiko' palpation of the patient, from head to toe, in some diabetic cases, Liver reflexes are very active and demand attention - in these cases, I presume Liver metabolism of glucose is part of the 'problem' (at the physiologic level) and when I treat accordingly, in these cases, blood sugar responds well.I will also add, that in addition to UB 20, in almost every diabetic patient I have ever treated as well as any one with sugar metabolism problems of any kind (hypoglycemic tendencies, etc), Kiiko's sugar imbalance reflex (Hua Tuo Jia Ji of T11 and T12) is almost highly highly reactive (spastic on palpation) and when needled directly, brings about dramatic effect. Daniel --- On Wed, 3/10/10, <johnkokko wrote: <johnkokko Re: Diabetic neuropathy Chinese Medicine Received: Wednesday, March 10, 2010, 8:30 AM Dr. Snow, Thanks for the findings... Interesting that the SP and KD back-shu points lower blood sugar levels, but UB 18 (LV) can make blood glucose rise. Is this an instance with wood overacting on earth, making the earth weaker? As the Nei jing states... when problems with the earth, avoid the sour flavor (LV). K On Tue, Mar 9, 2010 at 10:12 AM, Donald Snow <don83407 (AT) msn (DOT) com> wrote: > > Use Kiiko's pachi-pachi e'stim with three needles on each foot with three > stimulations each. The results should be immediate and profound. This > treatment is even more efficacious when used with a Russian SCENAR with 60% > to 100% relief on the first visit. It takes 9 to 15 treatments on average > for permanent resolution of the neuropathy. They must control their blood > glucose. > > > > To lower blood glucose levels only three points are needed. It is > important to add no other points. Before inserting the needles, get their > blood glucose level. If it is high, needle the following points: > > > > PiShu/weiguanxiashu bilat > > UB 23 bilat > > Kid 3 bilat > > > > Retain needle for 30 minutes and retest their BCG. It should drop > significantly. If you misplace pishu and needle UB 18, their BCG will rise. > Therefore, it is important to have the correct locations. > > If you want to know more about this protocol, contact PCOM and ask for Dr. > Snow's doctoral dissertation on Diabetes. > > > > Dr. Don Snow, DAOM, MPH, L.Ac. > > > > > johnkokko (AT) gmail (DOT) com > Tue, 9 Mar 2010 09:53:47 -0800 > Re: Diabetic neuropathy > > > > > > Mike, > Yes.... this patient is the kind of guy who doesn't want to admit that he > feels any pressure pain anywhere, > except that he complains a lot about his feet neuropathy. > So, the oketsu and immune were tight, but no pressure pain elicited from > the > patient. > Of all of the hara reflexes, adrenal (under the navel) came up, so it > directed me to KD 6, which halved the pins and needles sensation alone. > Also, LV 3 and ST 41 has been very helpful for this patient. > While pressing LI 4 strongly, most of the pins/needles would go away > completely, so that's his homework. > > The first treatment, I tried the points for peripheral neuropathy in > Kiiko's > Clinical Vol 2, but didn't see immediate results, > so I tried each point one-by-one checking and rechecking the nerve > sensation > on the bottom of his feet. > Of Kiiko's treatment from pgs. 129-137 in Vol 2, I tried Ren 12, 13, SP > 3.2, > ST Qi line, Lung 4/ 8, but these were not as effective as the points I > wrote > out earlier. Surprisingly, ST 36 and GB 34 were not as effective as I would > assume. > The ankle fulcrum treatment was immediately effective... KD 6, ST 41 and UB > 62, but found that UB 62 was not needed, so retained KD 6 and ST 41. I > have yet to try the Kiiko back treatment for peripheral neuropathy (kori > around UB 42, lumbar eyes, sugar points around UB 20/21), because the other > treatment was working so well, but it would be worthwhile to do that the > next treatment. > The second treatment I needled KD 1, which was very lasting through the > week > and effective, but he requested that I don't needle that point because of > the obvious pain that can sometimes occur, so instead, I needle LV 3 > thru-thru towards KD 1. > > Let me know how your treatments go.. it's good to share this info, > K > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 9, 2010 Report Share Posted April 9, 2010 Hi Donald, I wanted to let you know that I used your treatment on my patient and her symptoms completely went away for a day after just one treatment. So thank you. I love it when I can get such amazing results with just a few needles. --- On Tue, 3/16/10, Donald Snow <don83407 wrote: Donald Snow <don83407 RE: Diabetic neuropathy Chinese Traditional Medicine Tuesday, March 16, 2010, 7:36 AM I'm so sorry for the confusion. I meant Yishu/Weiguanxiashu. Hope this works for you. I am sincerely, Don Snow Chinese Medicine petrabuchanan Mon, 15 Mar 2010 19:20:21 -0700 RE: Diabetic neuropathy Hi Donald, I am a little confused. You said three points and there are four points you mentioned. Should I use Pi Shu or Wei Guan Xia Shu or both? Thank you, Petra Also my patient is starting to feel stronger and has more energy! --- On Thu, 3/11/10, Donald Snow <don83407 wrote: Donald Snow <don83407 RE: Diabetic neuropathy Chinese Traditional Medicine Thursday, March 11, 2010, 9:16 AM I used these points as empirical and I did not do any TCM diagnostics. Blood glucose levels dropped very significantly in 70% of all patients treated, and they dropped immediately and continued to drop for the remainder of the day. It must be noted that I did, indeed, experiment with other points in addition to my protocol. The result was that 100% of the time, the patient's BCG did not drop at all and even increased. That means that to get the desired results, the protocol must be rigidly followed. Sorry if that info was disappointing, but that was the research outcome. Sincerely, Dr. Don Snow, DAOM, MPH, L.Ac. Chinese Medicine daniel.schulman Wed, 10 Mar 2010 03:48:04 -0800 Re: Diabetic neuropathy Its not been my finding that in all cases, treating 'Liver' makes blood sugar rise.When I do a full 'Kiiko' palpation of the patient, from head to toe, in some diabetic cases, Liver reflexes are very active and demand attention - in these cases, I presume Liver metabolism of glucose is part of the 'problem' (at the physiologic level) and when I treat accordingly, in these cases, blood sugar responds well.I will also add, that in addition to UB 20, in almost every diabetic patient I have ever treated as well as any one with sugar metabolism problems of any kind (hypoglycemic tendencies, etc), Kiiko's sugar imbalance reflex (Hua Tuo Jia Ji of T11 and T12) is almost highly highly reactive (spastic on palpation) and when needled directly, brings about dramatic effect. Daniel --- On Wed, 3/10/10, <johnkokko wrote: <johnkokko Re: Diabetic neuropathy Chinese Medicine Received: Wednesday, March 10, 2010, 8:30 AM Dr. Snow, Thanks for the findings... Interesting that the SP and KD back-shu points lower blood sugar levels, but UB 18 (LV) can make blood glucose rise. Is this an instance with wood overacting on earth, making the earth weaker? As the Nei jing states... when problems with the earth, avoid the sour flavor (LV). K On Tue, Mar 9, 2010 at 10:12 AM, Donald Snow <don83407 (AT) msn (DOT) com> wrote: > > Use Kiiko's pachi-pachi e'stim with three needles on each foot with three > stimulations each. The results should be immediate and profound. This > treatment is even more efficacious when used with a Russian SCENAR with 60% > to 100% relief on the first visit. It takes 9 to 15 treatments on average > for permanent resolution of the neuropathy. They must control their blood > glucose. > > > > To lower blood glucose levels only three points are needed. It is > important to add no other points. Before inserting the needles, get their > blood glucose level. If it is high, needle the following points: > > > > PiShu/weiguanxiashu bilat > > UB 23 bilat > > Kid 3 bilat > > > > Retain needle for 30 minutes and retest their BCG. It should drop > significantly. If you misplace pishu and needle UB 18, their BCG will rise. > Therefore, it is important to have the correct locations. > > If you want to know more about this protocol, contact PCOM and ask for Dr. > Snow's doctoral dissertation on Diabetes. > > > > Dr. Don Snow, DAOM, MPH, L.Ac. > > > > > johnkokko (AT) gmail (DOT) com > Tue, 9 Mar 2010 09:53:47 -0800 > Re: Diabetic neuropathy > > > > > > Mike, > Yes.... this patient is the kind of guy who doesn't want to admit that he > feels any pressure pain anywhere, > except that he complains a lot about his feet neuropathy. > So, the oketsu and immune were tight, but no pressure pain elicited from > the > patient. > Of all of the hara reflexes, adrenal (under the navel) came up, so it > directed me to KD 6, which halved the pins and needles sensation alone. > Also, LV 3 and ST 41 has been very helpful for this patient. > While pressing LI 4 strongly, most of the pins/needles would go away > completely, so that's his homework. > > The first treatment, I tried the points for peripheral neuropathy in > Kiiko's > Clinical Vol 2, but didn't see immediate results, > so I tried each point one-by-one checking and rechecking the nerve > sensation > on the bottom of his feet. > Of Kiiko's treatment from pgs. 129-137 in Vol 2, I tried Ren 12, 13, SP > 3.2, > ST Qi line, Lung 4/ 8, but these were not as effective as the points I > wrote > out earlier. Surprisingly, ST 36 and GB 34 were not as effective as I would > assume. > The ankle fulcrum treatment was immediately effective... KD 6, ST 41 and UB > 62, but found that UB 62 was not needed, so retained KD 6 and ST 41. I > have yet to try the Kiiko back treatment for peripheral neuropathy (kori > around UB 42, lumbar eyes, sugar points around UB 20/21), because the other > treatment was working so well, but it would be worthwhile to do that the > next treatment. > The second treatment I needled KD 1, which was very lasting through the > week > and effective, but he requested that I don't needle that point because of > the obvious pain that can sometimes occur, so instead, I needle LV 3 > thru-thru towards KD 1. > > Let me know how your treatments go.. it's good to share this info, > K > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 9, 2010 Report Share Posted April 9, 2010 I'm so happy for that. I get these same results 97% of the time no matter what the active sx. By the way. I am currently looking for a full-time acupuncturist to join me in my clinic now and possibly for a hospital position in the future after I train him or her up. It is a guaranteed salaried position with a percentage bonus system. We work hard here, but we pay well, too. Thanks, Dr. Donald J. Snow, Jr., DAOM, MPH Chinese Medicine petrabuchanan Fri, 9 Apr 2010 13:50:05 -0700 RE: Diabetic neuropathy Hi Donald, I wanted to let you know that I used your treatment on my patient and her symptoms completely went away for a day after just one treatment. So thank you. I love it when I can get such amazing results with just a few needles. --- On Tue, 3/16/10, Donald Snow <don83407 wrote: Donald Snow <don83407 RE: Diabetic neuropathy Chinese Traditional Medicine Tuesday, March 16, 2010, 7:36 AM I'm so sorry for the confusion. I meant Yishu/Weiguanxiashu. Hope this works for you. I am sincerely, Don Snow Chinese Medicine petrabuchanan Mon, 15 Mar 2010 19:20:21 -0700 RE: Diabetic neuropathy Hi Donald, I am a little confused. You said three points and there are four points you mentioned. Should I use Pi Shu or Wei Guan Xia Shu or both? Thank you, Petra Also my patient is starting to feel stronger and has more energy! --- On Thu, 3/11/10, Donald Snow <don83407 wrote: Donald Snow <don83407 RE: Diabetic neuropathy Chinese Traditional Medicine Thursday, March 11, 2010, 9:16 AM I used these points as empirical and I did not do any TCM diagnostics. Blood glucose levels dropped very significantly in 70% of all patients treated, and they dropped immediately and continued to drop for the remainder of the day. It must be noted that I did, indeed, experiment with other points in addition to my protocol. The result was that 100% of the time, the patient's BCG did not drop at all and even increased. That means that to get the desired results, the protocol must be rigidly followed. Sorry if that info was disappointing, but that was the research outcome. Sincerely, Dr. Don Snow, DAOM, MPH, L.Ac. Chinese Medicine daniel.schulman Wed, 10 Mar 2010 03:48:04 -0800 Re: Diabetic neuropathy Its not been my finding that in all cases, treating 'Liver' makes blood sugar rise.When I do a full 'Kiiko' palpation of the patient, from head to toe, in some diabetic cases, Liver reflexes are very active and demand attention - in these cases, I presume Liver metabolism of glucose is part of the 'problem' (at the physiologic level) and when I treat accordingly, in these cases, blood sugar responds well.I will also add, that in addition to UB 20, in almost every diabetic patient I have ever treated as well as any one with sugar metabolism problems of any kind (hypoglycemic tendencies, etc), Kiiko's sugar imbalance reflex (Hua Tuo Jia Ji of T11 and T12) is almost highly highly reactive (spastic on palpation) and when needled directly, brings about dramatic effect. Daniel --- On Wed, 3/10/10, <johnkokko wrote: <johnkokko Re: Diabetic neuropathy Chinese Medicine Received: Wednesday, March 10, 2010, 8:30 AM Dr. Snow, Thanks for the findings... Interesting that the SP and KD back-shu points lower blood sugar levels, but UB 18 (LV) can make blood glucose rise. Is this an instance with wood overacting on earth, making the earth weaker? As the Nei jing states... when problems with the earth, avoid the sour flavor (LV). K On Tue, Mar 9, 2010 at 10:12 AM, Donald Snow <don83407 (AT) msn (DOT) com> wrote: > > Use Kiiko's pachi-pachi e'stim with three needles on each foot with three > stimulations each. The results should be immediate and profound. This > treatment is even more efficacious when used with a Russian SCENAR with 60% > to 100% relief on the first visit. It takes 9 to 15 treatments on average > for permanent resolution of the neuropathy. They must control their blood > glucose. > > > > To lower blood glucose levels only three points are needed. It is > important to add no other points. Before inserting the needles, get their > blood glucose level. If it is high, needle the following points: > > > > PiShu/weiguanxiashu bilat > > UB 23 bilat > > Kid 3 bilat > > > > Retain needle for 30 minutes and retest their BCG. It should drop > significantly. If you misplace pishu and needle UB 18, their BCG will rise. > Therefore, it is important to have the correct locations. > > If you want to know more about this protocol, contact PCOM and ask for Dr. > Snow's doctoral dissertation on Diabetes. > > > > Dr. Don Snow, DAOM, MPH, L.Ac. > > > > > johnkokko (AT) gmail (DOT) com > Tue, 9 Mar 2010 09:53:47 -0800 > Re: Diabetic neuropathy > > > > > > Mike, > Yes.... this patient is the kind of guy who doesn't want to admit that he > feels any pressure pain anywhere, > except that he complains a lot about his feet neuropathy. > So, the oketsu and immune were tight, but no pressure pain elicited from > the > patient. > Of all of the hara reflexes, adrenal (under the navel) came up, so it > directed me to KD 6, which halved the pins and needles sensation alone. > Also, LV 3 and ST 41 has been very helpful for this patient. > While pressing LI 4 strongly, most of the pins/needles would go away > completely, so that's his homework. > > The first treatment, I tried the points for peripheral neuropathy in > Kiiko's > Clinical Vol 2, but didn't see immediate results, > so I tried each point one-by-one checking and rechecking the nerve > sensation > on the bottom of his feet. > Of Kiiko's treatment from pgs. 129-137 in Vol 2, I tried Ren 12, 13, SP > 3.2, > ST Qi line, Lung 4/ 8, but these were not as effective as the points I > wrote > out earlier. Surprisingly, ST 36 and GB 34 were not as effective as I would > assume. > The ankle fulcrum treatment was immediately effective... KD 6, ST 41 and UB > 62, but found that UB 62 was not needed, so retained KD 6 and ST 41. I > have yet to try the Kiiko back treatment for peripheral neuropathy (kori > around UB 42, lumbar eyes, sugar points around UB 20/21), because the other > treatment was working so well, but it would be worthwhile to do that the > next treatment. > The second treatment I needled KD 1, which was very lasting through the > week > and effective, but he requested that I don't needle that point because of > the obvious pain that can sometimes occur, so instead, I needle LV 3 > thru-thru towards KD 1. > > Let me know how your treatments go.. it's good to share this info, > K > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 9, 2010 Report Share Posted April 9, 2010 I am a bit confused. What are the English names of the points you are using? And the rule is only those points and no other ones and that is the treatment for diabetic neuropathy? Regards, Angela Pfaffenberger, Ph.D. angelapfa www.InnerhealthSalem.com Phone: 503 364 3022 - " Donald Snow " <don83407 <Chinese Traditional Medicine > Friday, April 09, 2010 1:57 PM RE: Diabetic neuropathy > > I'm so happy for that. I get these same results 97% of the time no matter > what the active sx. > > > > By the way. I am currently looking for a full-time acupuncturist to join > me in my clinic now and possibly for a hospital position in the future > after I train him or her up. It is a guaranteed salaried position with a > percentage bonus system. We work hard here, but we pay well, too. > > > > Thanks, > > > Dr. Donald J. Snow, Jr., DAOM, MPH > > > > Chinese Medicine > petrabuchanan > Fri, 9 Apr 2010 13:50:05 -0700 > RE: Diabetic neuropathy Hi Donald, I wanted to let you know that I used your treatment on my > patient and her symptoms completely went away for a day after just one > treatment. So thank you. I love it when I can get such amazing results > with just a few needles. > --- On Tue, 3/16/10, Donald Snow <don83407 wrote: > > Donald Snow <don83407 > RE: Diabetic neuropathy > Chinese Traditional Medicine > Tuesday, March 16, 2010, 7:36 AM > > I'm so sorry for the confusion. I meant Yishu/Weiguanxiashu. Hope this > works for you. > > I am sincerely, > > Don Snow > > > Chinese Medicine > petrabuchanan > Mon, 15 Mar 2010 19:20:21 -0700 > RE: Diabetic neuropathy > > > > Hi Donald, I am a little confused. You said three points and there are > four points you mentioned. Should I use Pi Shu or Wei Guan Xia Shu or > both? > > Thank you, Petra > > Also my patient is starting to feel stronger and has more energy! > > --- On Thu, 3/11/10, Donald Snow <don83407 wrote: > > Donald Snow <don83407 > RE: Diabetic neuropathy > Chinese Traditional Medicine > Thursday, March 11, 2010, 9:16 AM > > I used these points as empirical and I did not do any TCM diagnostics. > Blood glucose levels dropped very significantly in 70% of all patients > treated, and they dropped immediately and continued to drop for the > remainder of the day. It must be noted that I did, indeed, experiment > with other points in addition to my protocol. The result was that 100% of > the time, the patient's BCG did not drop at all and even increased. That > means that to get the desired results, the protocol must be rigidly > followed. > > Sorry if that info was disappointing, but that was the research outcome. > > Sincerely, > > Dr. Don Snow, DAOM, MPH, L.Ac. > > Chinese Medicine > daniel.schulman > Wed, 10 Mar 2010 03:48:04 -0800 > Re: Diabetic neuropathy > > > > Its not been my finding that in all cases, treating 'Liver' makes blood > sugar rise.When I do a full 'Kiiko' palpation of the patient, from head to > toe, in some diabetic cases, Liver reflexes are very active and demand > attention - in these cases, I presume Liver metabolism of glucose is part > of the 'problem' (at the physiologic level) and when I treat accordingly, > in these cases, blood sugar responds well.I will also add, that in > addition to UB 20, in almost every diabetic patient I have ever treated as > well as any one with sugar metabolism problems of any kind (hypoglycemic > tendencies, etc), Kiiko's sugar imbalance reflex (Hua Tuo Jia Ji of T11 > and T12) is almost highly highly reactive (spastic on palpation) and when > needled directly, brings about dramatic effect. > Daniel > --- On Wed, 3/10/10, <johnkokko wrote: > > <johnkokko > Re: Diabetic neuropathy > Chinese Medicine > Received: Wednesday, March 10, 2010, 8:30 AM > > Dr. Snow, > > Thanks for the findings... > > Interesting that the SP and KD back-shu points lower blood sugar levels, > but > > UB 18 (LV) can make blood glucose rise. > > Is this an instance with wood overacting on earth, making the earth > weaker? > > As the Nei jing states... when problems with the earth, avoid the sour > > flavor (LV). > > K > > On Tue, Mar 9, 2010 at 10:12 AM, Donald Snow <don83407 (AT) msn (DOT) com> wrote: > >> > >> Use Kiiko's pachi-pachi e'stim with three needles on each foot with three > >> stimulations each. The results should be immediate and profound. This > >> treatment is even more efficacious when used with a Russian SCENAR with >> 60% > >> to 100% relief on the first visit. It takes 9 to 15 treatments on average > >> for permanent resolution of the neuropathy. They must control their blood > >> glucose. > >> > >> > >> > >> To lower blood glucose levels only three points are needed. It is > >> important to add no other points. Before inserting the needles, get their > >> blood glucose level. If it is high, needle the following points: > >> > >> > >> > >> PiShu/weiguanxiashu bilat > >> > >> UB 23 bilat > >> > >> Kid 3 bilat > >> > >> > >> > >> Retain needle for 30 minutes and retest their BCG. It should drop > >> significantly. If you misplace pishu and needle UB 18, their BCG will >> rise. > >> Therefore, it is important to have the correct locations. > >> > >> If you want to know more about this protocol, contact PCOM and ask for >> Dr. > >> Snow's doctoral dissertation on Diabetes. > >> > >> > >> > >> Dr. Don Snow, DAOM, MPH, L.Ac. > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> johnkokko (AT) gmail (DOT) com > >> Tue, 9 Mar 2010 09:53:47 -0800 > >> Re: Diabetic neuropathy > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> Mike, > >> Yes.... this patient is the kind of guy who doesn't want to admit that he > >> feels any pressure pain anywhere, > >> except that he complains a lot about his feet neuropathy. > >> So, the oketsu and immune were tight, but no pressure pain elicited from > >> the > >> patient. > >> Of all of the hara reflexes, adrenal (under the navel) came up, so it > >> directed me to KD 6, which halved the pins and needles sensation alone. > >> Also, LV 3 and ST 41 has been very helpful for this patient. > >> While pressing LI 4 strongly, most of the pins/needles would go away > >> completely, so that's his homework. > >> > >> The first treatment, I tried the points for peripheral neuropathy in > >> Kiiko's > >> Clinical Vol 2, but didn't see immediate results, > >> so I tried each point one-by-one checking and rechecking the nerve > >> sensation > >> on the bottom of his feet. > >> Of Kiiko's treatment from pgs. 129-137 in Vol 2, I tried Ren 12, 13, SP > >> 3.2, > >> ST Qi line, Lung 4/ 8, but these were not as effective as the points I > >> wrote > >> out earlier. Surprisingly, ST 36 and GB 34 were not as effective as I >> would > >> assume. > >> The ankle fulcrum treatment was immediately effective... KD 6, ST 41 and >> UB > >> 62, but found that UB 62 was not needed, so retained KD 6 and ST 41. I > >> have yet to try the Kiiko back treatment for peripheral neuropathy (kori > >> around UB 42, lumbar eyes, sugar points around UB 20/21), because the >> other > >> treatment was working so well, but it would be worthwhile to do that the > >> next treatment. > >> The second treatment I needled KD 1, which was very lasting through the > >> week > >> and effective, but he requested that I don't needle that point because of > >> the obvious pain that can sometimes occur, so instead, I needle LV 3 > >> thru-thru towards KD 1. > >> > >> Let me know how your treatments go.. it's good to share this info, > >> K > >> > >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 10, 2010 Report Share Posted April 10, 2010 Aren't you in San Diego? I would love to but I am in Santa Cruz. If you are in my area. Yes. --- On Fri, 4/9/10, Donald Snow <don83407 wrote: Donald Snow <don83407 RE: Diabetic neuropathy Chinese Traditional Medicine Friday, April 9, 2010, 1:57 PM I'm so happy for that. I get these same results 97% of the time no matter what the active sx. By the way. I am currently looking for a full-time acupuncturist to join me in my clinic now and possibly for a hospital position in the future after I train him or her up. It is a guaranteed salaried position with a percentage bonus system. We work hard here, but we pay well, too. Thanks, Dr. Donald J. Snow, Jr., DAOM, MPH Chinese Medicine petrabuchanan Fri, 9 Apr 2010 13:50:05 -0700 RE: Diabetic neuropathy Hi Donald, I wanted to let you know that I used your treatment on my patient and her symptoms completely went away for a day after just one treatment. So thank you. I love it when I can get such amazing results with just a few needles. --- On Tue, 3/16/10, Donald Snow <don83407 wrote: Donald Snow <don83407 RE: Diabetic neuropathy Chinese Traditional Medicine Tuesday, March 16, 2010, 7:36 AM I'm so sorry for the confusion. I meant Yishu/Weiguanxiashu. Hope this works for you. I am sincerely, Don Snow Chinese Medicine petrabuchanan Mon, 15 Mar 2010 19:20:21 -0700 RE: Diabetic neuropathy Hi Donald, I am a little confused. You said three points and there are four points you mentioned. Should I use Pi Shu or Wei Guan Xia Shu or both? Thank you, Petra Also my patient is starting to feel stronger and has more energy! --- On Thu, 3/11/10, Donald Snow <don83407 wrote: Donald Snow <don83407 RE: Diabetic neuropathy Chinese Traditional Medicine Thursday, March 11, 2010, 9:16 AM I used these points as empirical and I did not do any TCM diagnostics. Blood glucose levels dropped very significantly in 70% of all patients treated, and they dropped immediately and continued to drop for the remainder of the day. It must be noted that I did, indeed, experiment with other points in addition to my protocol. The result was that 100% of the time, the patient's BCG did not drop at all and even increased. That means that to get the desired results, the protocol must be rigidly followed. Sorry if that info was disappointing, but that was the research outcome. Sincerely, Dr. Don Snow, DAOM, MPH, L.Ac. Chinese Medicine daniel.schulman Wed, 10 Mar 2010 03:48:04 -0800 Re: Diabetic neuropathy Its not been my finding that in all cases, treating 'Liver' makes blood sugar rise.When I do a full 'Kiiko' palpation of the patient, from head to toe, in some diabetic cases, Liver reflexes are very active and demand attention - in these cases, I presume Liver metabolism of glucose is part of the 'problem' (at the physiologic level) and when I treat accordingly, in these cases, blood sugar responds well.I will also add, that in addition to UB 20, in almost every diabetic patient I have ever treated as well as any one with sugar metabolism problems of any kind (hypoglycemic tendencies, etc), Kiiko's sugar imbalance reflex (Hua Tuo Jia Ji of T11 and T12) is almost highly highly reactive (spastic on palpation) and when needled directly, brings about dramatic effect. Daniel --- On Wed, 3/10/10, <johnkokko wrote: <johnkokko Re: Diabetic neuropathy Chinese Medicine Received: Wednesday, March 10, 2010, 8:30 AM Dr. Snow, Thanks for the findings... Interesting that the SP and KD back-shu points lower blood sugar levels, but UB 18 (LV) can make blood glucose rise. Is this an instance with wood overacting on earth, making the earth weaker? As the Nei jing states... when problems with the earth, avoid the sour flavor (LV). K On Tue, Mar 9, 2010 at 10:12 AM, Donald Snow <don83407 (AT) msn (DOT) com> wrote: > > Use Kiiko's pachi-pachi e'stim with three needles on each foot with three > stimulations each. The results should be immediate and profound. This > treatment is even more efficacious when used with a Russian SCENAR with 60% > to 100% relief on the first visit. It takes 9 to 15 treatments on average > for permanent resolution of the neuropathy. They must control their blood > glucose. > > > > To lower blood glucose levels only three points are needed. It is > important to add no other points. Before inserting the needles, get their > blood glucose level. If it is high, needle the following points: > > > > PiShu/weiguanxiashu bilat > > UB 23 bilat > > Kid 3 bilat > > > > Retain needle for 30 minutes and retest their BCG. It should drop > significantly. If you misplace pishu and needle UB 18, their BCG will rise. > Therefore, it is important to have the correct locations. > > If you want to know more about this protocol, contact PCOM and ask for Dr. > Snow's doctoral dissertation on Diabetes. > > > > Dr. Don Snow, DAOM, MPH, L.Ac. > > > > > johnkokko (AT) gmail (DOT) com > Tue, 9 Mar 2010 09:53:47 -0800 > Re: Diabetic neuropathy > > > > > > Mike, > Yes.... this patient is the kind of guy who doesn't want to admit that he > feels any pressure pain anywhere, > except that he complains a lot about his feet neuropathy. > So, the oketsu and immune were tight, but no pressure pain elicited from > the > patient. > Of all of the hara reflexes, adrenal (under the navel) came up, so it > directed me to KD 6, which halved the pins and needles sensation alone. > Also, LV 3 and ST 41 has been very helpful for this patient. > While pressing LI 4 strongly, most of the pins/needles would go away > completely, so that's his homework. > > The first treatment, I tried the points for peripheral neuropathy in > Kiiko's > Clinical Vol 2, but didn't see immediate results, > so I tried each point one-by-one checking and rechecking the nerve > sensation > on the bottom of his feet. > Of Kiiko's treatment from pgs. 129-137 in Vol 2, I tried Ren 12, 13, SP > 3.2, > ST Qi line, Lung 4/ 8, but these were not as effective as the points I > wrote > out earlier. Surprisingly, ST 36 and GB 34 were not as effective as I would > assume. > The ankle fulcrum treatment was immediately effective... KD 6, ST 41 and UB > 62, but found that UB 62 was not needed, so retained KD 6 and ST 41. I > have yet to try the Kiiko back treatment for peripheral neuropathy (kori > around UB 42, lumbar eyes, sugar points around UB 20/21), because the other > treatment was working so well, but it would be worthwhile to do that the > next treatment. > The second treatment I needled KD 1, which was very lasting through the > week > and effective, but he requested that I don't needle that point because of > the obvious pain that can sometimes occur, so instead, I needle LV 3 > thru-thru towards KD 1. > > Let me know how your treatments go.. it's good to share this info, > K > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 10, 2010 Report Share Posted April 10, 2010 Not necessarily diabetic neuropathy. Just any symptom of diabetes in general as it effects insulin levels. It is Weiguanxia (M-BW-12)Shu an extra point at T8, one and a half cun lateral, UB 23, and KI 3. Is that Correct Donald. I am curious to hear about the position. Could you contact me via my personal e-mail? petrabuchanan73 --- On Fri, 4/9/10, Angela Pfaffenberger, PH.D. <angelapfa wrote: Angela Pfaffenberger, PH.D. <angelapfa Re: Diabetic neuropathy Chinese Medicine Friday, April 9, 2010, 2:42 PM Â I am a bit confused. What are the English names of the points you are using? And the rule is only those points and no other ones and that is the treatment for diabetic neuropathy? Regards, Angela Pfaffenberger, Ph.D. angelapfa (AT) comcast (DOT) net www.InnerhealthSale m.com Phone: 503 364 3022 - " Donald Snow " <don83407 (AT) msn (DOT) com> <traditional_ chinese_medicine > Friday, April 09, 2010 1:57 PM RE: Diabetic neuropathy > > I'm so happy for that. I get these same results 97% of the time no matter > what the active sx. > > > > By the way. I am currently looking for a full-time acupuncturist to join > me in my clinic now and possibly for a hospital position in the future > after I train him or her up. It is a guaranteed salaried position with a > percentage bonus system. We work hard here, but we pay well, too. > > > > Thanks, > > > Dr. Donald J. Snow, Jr., DAOM, MPH > > > > > petrabuchanan@ > Fri, 9 Apr 2010 13:50:05 -0700 > RE: Diabetic neuropathy > > > > > > > Hi Donald, I wanted to let you know that I used your treatment on my > patient and her symptoms completely went away for a day after just one > treatment. So thank you. I love it when I can get such amazing results > with just a few needles. > --- On Tue, 3/16/10, Donald Snow <don83407 (AT) msn (DOT) com> wrote: > > Donald Snow <don83407 (AT) msn (DOT) com> > RE: Diabetic neuropathy > traditional_ chinese_medicine > Tuesday, March 16, 2010, 7:36 AM > > I'm so sorry for the confusion. I meant Yishu/Weiguanxiashu . Hope this > works for you. > > I am sincerely, > > Don Snow > > > > petrabuchanan@ > Mon, 15 Mar 2010 19:20:21 -0700 > RE: Diabetic neuropathy > > > > Hi Donald, I am a little confused. You said three points and there are > four points you mentioned. Should I use Pi Shu or Wei Guan Xia Shu or > both? > > Thank you, Petra > > Also my patient is starting to feel stronger and has more energy! > > --- On Thu, 3/11/10, Donald Snow <don83407 (AT) msn (DOT) com> wrote: > > Donald Snow <don83407 (AT) msn (DOT) com> > RE: Diabetic neuropathy > traditional_ chinese_medicine > Thursday, March 11, 2010, 9:16 AM > > I used these points as empirical and I did not do any TCM diagnostics. > Blood glucose levels dropped very significantly in 70% of all patients > treated, and they dropped immediately and continued to drop for the > remainder of the day. It must be noted that I did, indeed, experiment > with other points in addition to my protocol. The result was that 100% of > the time, the patient's BCG did not drop at all and even increased. That > means that to get the desired results, the protocol must be rigidly > followed. > > Sorry if that info was disappointing, but that was the research outcome. > > Sincerely, > > Dr. Don Snow, DAOM, MPH, L.Ac. > > > daniel.schulman@ > Wed, 10 Mar 2010 03:48:04 -0800 > Re: Diabetic neuropathy > > > > Its not been my finding that in all cases, treating 'Liver' makes blood > sugar rise.When I do a full 'Kiiko' palpation of the patient, from head to > toe, in some diabetic cases, Liver reflexes are very active and demand > attention - in these cases, I presume Liver metabolism of glucose is part > of the 'problem' (at the physiologic level) and when I treat accordingly, > in these cases, blood sugar responds well.I will also add, that in > addition to UB 20, in almost every diabetic patient I have ever treated as > well as any one with sugar metabolism problems of any kind (hypoglycemic > tendencies, etc), Kiiko's sugar imbalance reflex (Hua Tuo Jia Ji of T11 > and T12) is almost highly highly reactive (spastic on palpation) and when > needled directly, brings about dramatic effect. > Daniel > --- On Wed, 3/10/10, <johnkokko (AT) gmail (DOT) com> wrote: > > <johnkokko (AT) gmail (DOT) com> > Re: Diabetic neuropathy > > Received: Wednesday, March 10, 2010, 8:30 AM > > Dr. Snow, > > Thanks for the findings... > > Interesting that the SP and KD back-shu points lower blood sugar levels, > but > > UB 18 (LV) can make blood glucose rise. > > Is this an instance with wood overacting on earth, making the earth > weaker? > > As the Nei jing states... when problems with the earth, avoid the sour > > flavor (LV). > > K > > On Tue, Mar 9, 2010 at 10:12 AM, Donald Snow <don83407 (AT) msn (DOT) com> wrote: > >> > >> Use Kiiko's pachi-pachi e'stim with three needles on each foot with three > >> stimulations each. The results should be immediate and profound. This > >> treatment is even more efficacious when used with a Russian SCENAR with >> 60% > >> to 100% relief on the first visit. It takes 9 to 15 treatments on average > >> for permanent resolution of the neuropathy. They must control their blood > >> glucose. > >> > >> > >> > >> To lower blood glucose levels only three points are needed. It is > >> important to add no other points. Before inserting the needles, get their > >> blood glucose level. If it is high, needle the following points: > >> > >> > >> > >> PiShu/weiguanxiashu bilat > >> > >> UB 23 bilat > >> > >> Kid 3 bilat > >> > >> > >> > >> Retain needle for 30 minutes and retest their BCG. It should drop > >> significantly. If you misplace pishu and needle UB 18, their BCG will >> rise. > >> Therefore, it is important to have the correct locations. > >> > >> If you want to know more about this protocol, contact PCOM and ask for >> Dr. > >> Snow's doctoral dissertation on Diabetes. > >> > >> > >> > >> Dr. Don Snow, DAOM, MPH, L.Ac. > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> johnkokko (AT) gmail (DOT) com > >> Tue, 9 Mar 2010 09:53:47 -0800 > >> Re: Diabetic neuropathy > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> Mike, > >> Yes.... this patient is the kind of guy who doesn't want to admit that he > >> feels any pressure pain anywhere, > >> except that he complains a lot about his feet neuropathy. > >> So, the oketsu and immune were tight, but no pressure pain elicited from > >> the > >> patient. > >> Of all of the hara reflexes, adrenal (under the navel) came up, so it > >> directed me to KD 6, which halved the pins and needles sensation alone. > >> Also, LV 3 and ST 41 has been very helpful for this patient. > >> While pressing LI 4 strongly, most of the pins/needles would go away > >> completely, so that's his homework. > >> > >> The first treatment, I tried the points for peripheral neuropathy in > >> Kiiko's > >> Clinical Vol 2, but didn't see immediate results, > >> so I tried each point one-by-one checking and rechecking the nerve > >> sensation > >> on the bottom of his feet. > >> Of Kiiko's treatment from pgs. 129-137 in Vol 2, I tried Ren 12, 13, SP > >> 3.2, > >> ST Qi line, Lung 4/ 8, but these were not as effective as the points I > >> wrote > >> out earlier. Surprisingly, ST 36 and GB 34 were not as effective as I >> would > >> assume. > >> The ankle fulcrum treatment was immediately effective... KD 6, ST 41 and >> UB > >> 62, but found that UB 62 was not needed, so retained KD 6 and ST 41. I > >> have yet to try the Kiiko back treatment for peripheral neuropathy (kori > >> around UB 42, lumbar eyes, sugar points around UB 20/21), because the >> other > >> treatment was working so well, but it would be worthwhile to do that the > >> next treatment. > >> The second treatment I needled KD 1, which was very lasting through the > >> week > >> and effective, but he requested that I don't needle that point because of > >> the obvious pain that can sometimes occur, so instead, I needle LV 3 > >> thru-thru towards KD 1. > >> > >> Let me know how your treatments go.. it's good to share this info, > >> K > >> > >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 11, 2010 Report Share Posted April 11, 2010 Yes, please review them all in English. That would be quite helpful. Anne Anne C. Crowley, L.Ac., Dipl.Ac. www.LaPlataAcupuncture.com - " Angela Pfaffenberger, PH.D. " <angelapfa " Traditional " <Chinese Medicine > Friday, April 9, 2010 5:42:09 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Re: Diabetic neuropathy  I am a bit confused. What are the English names of the points you are using? And the rule is only those points and no other ones and that is the treatment for diabetic neuropathy? Regards, Angela Pfaffenberger, Ph.D. angelapfa www.InnerhealthSalem.com Phone: 503 364 3022 - " Donald Snow " < don83407 > < Chinese Traditional Medicine > Friday, April 09, 2010 1:57 PM RE: Diabetic neuropathy > > I'm so happy for that. I get these same results 97% of the time no matter > what the active sx. > > > > By the way. I am currently looking for a full-time acupuncturist to join > me in my clinic now and possibly for a hospital position in the future > after I train him or her up. It is a guaranteed salaried position with a > percentage bonus system. We work hard here, but we pay well, too. > > > > Thanks, > > > Dr. Donald J. Snow, Jr., DAOM, MPH > > > > Chinese Medicine > petrabuchanan > Fri, 9 Apr 2010 13:50:05 -0700 > RE: Diabetic neuropathy Hi Donald, I wanted to let you know that I used your treatment on my > patient and her symptoms completely went away for a day after just one > treatment. So thank you. I love it when I can get such amazing results > with just a few needles. > --- On Tue, 3/16/10, Donald Snow < don83407 > wrote: > > Donald Snow < don83407 > > RE: Diabetic neuropathy > Chinese Traditional Medicine > Tuesday, March 16, 2010, 7:36 AM > > I'm so sorry for the confusion. I meant Yishu/Weiguanxiashu. Hope this > works for you. > > I am sincerely, > > Don Snow > > > Chinese Medicine > petrabuchanan > Mon, 15 Mar 2010 19:20:21 -0700 > RE: Diabetic neuropathy > > > > Hi Donald, I am a little confused. You said three points and there are > four points you mentioned. Should I use Pi Shu or Wei Guan Xia Shu or > both? > > Thank you, Petra > > Also my patient is starting to feel stronger and has more energy! > > --- On Thu, 3/11/10, Donald Snow < don83407 > wrote: > > Donald Snow < don83407 > > RE: Diabetic neuropathy > Chinese Traditional Medicine > Thursday, March 11, 2010, 9:16 AM > > I used these points as empirical and I did not do any TCM diagnostics. > Blood glucose levels dropped very significantly in 70% of all patients > treated, and they dropped immediately and continued to drop for the > remainder of the day. It must be noted that I did, indeed, experiment > with other points in addition to my protocol. The result was that 100% of > the time, the patient's BCG did not drop at all and even increased. That > means that to get the desired results, the protocol must be rigidly > followed. > > Sorry if that info was disappointing, but that was the research outcome. > > Sincerely, > > Dr. Don Snow, DAOM, MPH, L.Ac. > > Chinese Medicine > daniel.schulman > Wed, 10 Mar 2010 03:48:04 -0800 > Re: Diabetic neuropathy > > > > Its not been my finding that in all cases, treating 'Liver' makes blood > sugar rise.When I do a full 'Kiiko' palpation of the patient, from head to > toe, in some diabetic cases, Liver reflexes are very active and demand > attention - in these cases, I presume Liver metabolism of glucose is part > of the 'problem' (at the physiologic level) and when I treat accordingly, > in these cases, blood sugar responds well.I will also add, that in > addition to UB 20, in almost every diabetic patient I have ever treated as > well as any one with sugar metabolism problems of any kind (hypoglycemic > tendencies, etc), Kiiko's sugar imbalance reflex (Hua Tuo Jia Ji of T11 > and T12) is almost highly highly reactive (spastic on palpation) and when > needled directly, brings about dramatic effect. > Daniel > --- On Wed, 3/10/10, < johnkokko > wrote: > > < johnkokko > > Re: Diabetic neuropathy > Chinese Medicine > Received: Wednesday, March 10, 2010, 8:30 AM > > Dr. Snow, > > Thanks for the findings... > > Interesting that the SP and KD back-shu points lower blood sugar levels, > but > > UB 18 (LV) can make blood glucose rise. > > Is this an instance with wood overacting on earth, making the earth > weaker? > > As the Nei jing states... when problems with the earth, avoid the sour > > flavor (LV). > > K > > On Tue, Mar 9, 2010 at 10:12 AM, Donald Snow <don83407 (AT) msn (DOT) com> wrote: > >> > >> Use Kiiko's pachi-pachi e'stim with three needles on each foot with three > >> stimulations each. The results should be immediate and profound. This > >> treatment is even more efficacious when used with a Russian SCENAR with >> 60% > >> to 100% relief on the first visit. It takes 9 to 15 treatments on average > >> for permanent resolution of the neuropathy. They must control their blood > >> glucose. > >> > >> > >> > >> To lower blood glucose levels only three points are needed. It is > >> important to add no other points. Before inserting the needles, get their > >> blood glucose level. If it is high, needle the following points: > >> > >> > >> > >> PiShu/weiguanxiashu bilat > >> > >> UB 23 bilat > >> > >> Kid 3 bilat > >> > >> > >> > >> Retain needle for 30 minutes and retest their BCG. It should drop > >> significantly. If you misplace pishu and needle UB 18, their BCG will >> rise. > >> Therefore, it is important to have the correct locations. > >> > >> If you want to know more about this protocol, contact PCOM and ask for >> Dr. > >> Snow's doctoral dissertation on Diabetes. > >> > >> > >> > >> Dr. Don Snow, DAOM, MPH, L.Ac. > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> johnkokko (AT) gmail (DOT) com > >> Tue, 9 Mar 2010 09:53:47 -0800 > >> Re: Diabetic neuropathy > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> Mike, > >> Yes.... this patient is the kind of guy who doesn't want to admit that he > >> feels any pressure pain anywhere, > >> except that he complains a lot about his feet neuropathy. > >> So, the oketsu and immune were tight, but no pressure pain elicited from > >> the > >> patient. > >> Of all of the hara reflexes, adrenal (under the navel) came up, so it > >> directed me to KD 6, which halved the pins and needles sensation alone. > >> Also, LV 3 and ST 41 has been very helpful for this patient. > >> While pressing LI 4 strongly, most of the pins/needles would go away > >> completely, so that's his homework. > >> > >> The first treatment, I tried the points for peripheral neuropathy in > >> Kiiko's > >> Clinical Vol 2, but didn't see immediate results, > >> so I tried each point one-by-one checking and rechecking the nerve > >> sensation > >> on the bottom of his feet. > >> Of Kiiko's treatment from pgs. 129-137 in Vol 2, I tried Ren 12, 13, SP > >> 3.2, > >> ST Qi line, Lung 4/ 8, but these were not as effective as the points I > >> wrote > >> out earlier. Surprisingly, ST 36 and GB 34 were not as effective as I >> would > >> assume. > >> The ankle fulcrum treatment was immediately effective... KD 6, ST 41 and >> UB > >> 62, but found that UB 62 was not needed, so retained KD 6 and ST 41. I > >> have yet to try the Kiiko back treatment for peripheral neuropathy (kori > >> around UB 42, lumbar eyes, sugar points around UB 20/21), because the >> other > >> treatment was working so well, but it would be worthwhile to do that the > >> next treatment. > >> The second treatment I needled KD 1, which was very lasting through the > >> week > >> and effective, but he requested that I don't needle that point because of > >> the obvious pain that can sometimes occur, so instead, I needle LV 3 > >> thru-thru towards KD 1. > >> > >> Let me know how your treatments go.. it's good to share this info, > >> K > >> > >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 12, 2010 Report Share Posted April 12, 2010 Donald, Thank you for sharing your research results with the rest of us. Did you investigate the effects of moxabustion along with your protocol? Your research has a very convenient metric with the proliferation of handheld blood sugar monitors. Deadman lists a " Thousand Ducat Formulas " treatment strategy for Wasting and Thisting Disorder and dry throat: needle wei guan xia shu (presumeably bilateral) and burn 100 moxa cones on the du channel in between (on the point inferior to the spinous process of the 8th thoracic vertebra). Has this already been investigatd? Any thoughts? Mark Z >Don wrote: > I'm so sorry for the confusion. I meant Yishu/Weiguanxiashu. Hope this works for you. > > > > I am sincerely, > > > > Don Snow > > I used these points as empirical and I did not do any TCM diagnostics. Blood glucose levels dropped very significantly in 70% of all patients treated, and they dropped immediately and continued to drop for the remainder of the day. It must be noted that I did, indeed, experiment with other points in addition to my protocol. The result was that 100% of the time, the patient's BCG did not drop at all and even increased. That means that to get the desired results, the protocol must be rigidly followed. > > Sorry if that info was disappointing, but that was the research outcome. > > Sincerely, > > Dr. Don Snow, DAOM, MPH, L.Ac. > > Chinese Medicine > daniel.schulman > Wed, 10 Mar 2010 03:48:04 -0800 > Re: Diabetic neuropathy > > > > Its not been my finding that in all cases, treating 'Liver' makes blood sugar rise.When I do a full 'Kiiko' palpation of the patient, from head to toe, in some diabetic cases, Liver reflexes are very active and demand attention - in these cases, I presume Liver metabolism of glucose is part of the 'problem' (at the physiologic level) and when I treat accordingly, in these cases, blood sugar responds well.I will also add, that in addition to UB 20, in almost every diabetic patient I have ever treated as well as any one with sugar metabolism problems of any kind (hypoglycemic tendencies, etc), Kiiko's sugar imbalance reflex (Hua Tuo Jia Ji of T11 and T12) is almost highly highly reactive (spastic on palpation) and when needled directly, brings about dramatic effect. > Daniel > --- On Wed, 3/10/10, <johnkokko wrote: > > <johnkokko > > Dr. Snow, > > Thanks for the findings... > > Interesting that the SP and KD back-shu points lower blood sugar levels, but > > UB 18 (LV) can make blood glucose rise. > > Is this an instance with wood overacting on earth, making the earth weaker? > > As the Nei jing states... when problems with the earth, avoid the sour flavor (LV). > > K Donald Snow <don83407 (AT) msn (DOT) com> wrote: > > Use Kiiko's pachi-pachi e'stim with three needles on each foot with three stimulations each. The results should be immediate and profound. This treatment is even more efficacious when used with a Russian SCENAR with 60% to 100% relief on the first visit. It takes 9 to 15 treatments on average for permanent resolution of the neuropathy. They must control their blood glucose. > > > > To lower blood glucose levels only three points are needed. It is > > > important to add no other points. Before inserting the needles, get their > > > blood glucose level. If it is high, needle the following points: > > > PiShu/weiguanxiashu bilat > > > UB 23 bilat > > > Kid 3 bilat > > > Retain needle for 30 minutes and retest their BCG. It should drop > > > significantly. If you misplace pishu and needle UB 18, their BCG will rise. > > > Therefore, it is important to have the correct locations. > > > If you want to know more about this protocol, contact PCOM and ask for Dr. > > > Snow's doctoral dissertation on Diabetes. > > Dr. Don Snow, DAOM, MPH, L.Ac. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 12, 2010 Report Share Posted April 12, 2010 The people you see in your clinic will not have wasting and thirsting disorder because they will either be on insulin or oral meds. Therefore, that formula will almost never be used. I did investigate moxa and many other traditional point prescriptions, but none gave the results of the ones I used. Indeed, unless all of us find/discover new uses and prescriptions for acupuncture and herbal medicine we will not be bettering our medicine for the next generation. Almost every generation of prior masters had something new to add to our medicine and it is incumbent on us to do the same. It should also be noted that I sent two different needle rxs. One was for diabetes and the other was for neuropathy. They are not the same rx. Sincerely, Don J. Snow, DAOM, MPH, L.Ac. Chinese Medicine zaranski Mon, 12 Apr 2010 12:50:25 +0000 Re: Diabetic neuropathy Donald, Thank you for sharing your research results with the rest of us. Did you investigate the effects of moxabustion along with your protocol? Your research has a very convenient metric with the proliferation of handheld blood sugar monitors. Deadman lists a " Thousand Ducat Formulas " treatment strategy for Wasting and Thisting Disorder and dry throat: needle wei guan xia shu (presumeably bilateral) and burn 100 moxa cones on the du channel in between (on the point inferior to the spinous process of the 8th thoracic vertebra). Has this already been investigatd? Any thoughts? Mark Z >Don wrote: > I'm so sorry for the confusion. I meant Yishu/Weiguanxiashu. Hope this works for you. > > > > I am sincerely, > > > > Don Snow > > I used these points as empirical and I did not do any TCM diagnostics. Blood glucose levels dropped very significantly in 70% of all patients treated, and they dropped immediately and continued to drop for the remainder of the day. It must be noted that I did, indeed, experiment with other points in addition to my protocol. The result was that 100% of the time, the patient's BCG did not drop at all and even increased. That means that to get the desired results, the protocol must be rigidly followed. > > Sorry if that info was disappointing, but that was the research outcome. > > Sincerely, > > Dr. Don Snow, DAOM, MPH, L.Ac. > > Chinese Medicine > daniel.schulman > Wed, 10 Mar 2010 03:48:04 -0800 > Re: Diabetic neuropathy > > > > Its not been my finding that in all cases, treating 'Liver' makes blood sugar rise.When I do a full 'Kiiko' palpation of the patient, from head to toe, in some diabetic cases, Liver reflexes are very active and demand attention - in these cases, I presume Liver metabolism of glucose is part of the 'problem' (at the physiologic level) and when I treat accordingly, in these cases, blood sugar responds well.I will also add, that in addition to UB 20, in almost every diabetic patient I have ever treated as well as any one with sugar metabolism problems of any kind (hypoglycemic tendencies, etc), Kiiko's sugar imbalance reflex (Hua Tuo Jia Ji of T11 and T12) is almost highly highly reactive (spastic on palpation) and when needled directly, brings about dramatic effect. > Daniel > --- On Wed, 3/10/10, <johnkokko wrote: > > <johnkokko > > Dr. Snow, > > Thanks for the findings... > > Interesting that the SP and KD back-shu points lower blood sugar levels, but > > UB 18 (LV) can make blood glucose rise. > > Is this an instance with wood overacting on earth, making the earth weaker? > > As the Nei jing states... when problems with the earth, avoid the sour flavor (LV). > > K Donald Snow <don83407 (AT) msn (DOT) com> wrote: > > Use Kiiko's pachi-pachi e'stim with three needles on each foot with three stimulations each. The results should be immediate and profound. This treatment is even more efficacious when used with a Russian SCENAR with 60% to 100% relief on the first visit. It takes 9 to 15 treatments on average for permanent resolution of the neuropathy. They must control their blood glucose. > > > > To lower blood glucose levels only three points are needed. It is > > > important to add no other points. Before inserting the needles, get their > > > blood glucose level. If it is high, needle the following points: > > > PiShu/weiguanxiashu bilat > > > UB 23 bilat > > > Kid 3 bilat > > > Retain needle for 30 minutes and retest their BCG. It should drop > > > significantly. If you misplace pishu and needle UB 18, their BCG will rise. > > > Therefore, it is important to have the correct locations. > > > If you want to know more about this protocol, contact PCOM and ask for Dr. > > > Snow's doctoral dissertation on Diabetes. > > Dr. Don Snow, DAOM, MPH, L.Ac. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 12, 2010 Report Share Posted April 12, 2010 No, the point rx you are talking about, Weiguanxiashu, UB 23, and Ki 3 are only for Diabetes (high blood glucose). The other point rx with pachi-pachi e'stim was for neuropathy. Sincerely, Don J. Snow, DAOM, MPH, L.Ac. Chinese Medicine anne.crowley Sun, 11 Apr 2010 15:48:33 +0000 Re: Diabetic neuropathy Yes, please review them all in English. That would be quite helpful. Anne Anne C. Crowley, L.Ac., Dipl.Ac. www.LaPlataAcupuncture.com - " Angela Pfaffenberger, PH.D. " <angelapfa " Traditional " <Chinese Medicine > Friday, April 9, 2010 5:42:09 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Re: Diabetic neuropathy I am a bit confused. What are the English names of the points you are using? And the rule is only those points and no other ones and that is the treatment for diabetic neuropathy? Regards, Angela Pfaffenberger, Ph.D. angelapfa www.InnerhealthSalem.com Phone: 503 364 3022 - " Donald Snow " < don83407 > < Chinese Traditional Medicine > Friday, April 09, 2010 1:57 PM RE: Diabetic neuropathy > > I'm so happy for that. I get these same results 97% of the time no matter > what the active sx. > > > > By the way. I am currently looking for a full-time acupuncturist to join > me in my clinic now and possibly for a hospital position in the future > after I train him or her up. It is a guaranteed salaried position with a > percentage bonus system. We work hard here, but we pay well, too. > > > > Thanks, > > > Dr. Donald J. Snow, Jr., DAOM, MPH > > > > Chinese Medicine > petrabuchanan > Fri, 9 Apr 2010 13:50:05 -0700 > RE: Diabetic neuropathy Hi Donald, I wanted to let you know that I used your treatment on my > patient and her symptoms completely went away for a day after just one > treatment. So thank you. I love it when I can get such amazing results > with just a few needles. > --- On Tue, 3/16/10, Donald Snow < don83407 > wrote: > > Donald Snow < don83407 > > RE: Diabetic neuropathy > Chinese Traditional Medicine > Tuesday, March 16, 2010, 7:36 AM > > I'm so sorry for the confusion. I meant Yishu/Weiguanxiashu. Hope this > works for you. > > I am sincerely, > > Don Snow > > > Chinese Medicine > petrabuchanan > Mon, 15 Mar 2010 19:20:21 -0700 > RE: Diabetic neuropathy > > > > Hi Donald, I am a little confused. You said three points and there are > four points you mentioned. Should I use Pi Shu or Wei Guan Xia Shu or > both? > > Thank you, Petra > > Also my patient is starting to feel stronger and has more energy! > > --- On Thu, 3/11/10, Donald Snow < don83407 > wrote: > > Donald Snow < don83407 > > RE: Diabetic neuropathy > Chinese Traditional Medicine > Thursday, March 11, 2010, 9:16 AM > > I used these points as empirical and I did not do any TCM diagnostics. > Blood glucose levels dropped very significantly in 70% of all patients > treated, and they dropped immediately and continued to drop for the > remainder of the day. It must be noted that I did, indeed, experiment > with other points in addition to my protocol. The result was that 100% of > the time, the patient's BCG did not drop at all and even increased. That > means that to get the desired results, the protocol must be rigidly > followed. > > Sorry if that info was disappointing, but that was the research outcome. > > Sincerely, > > Dr. Don Snow, DAOM, MPH, L.Ac. > > Chinese Medicine > daniel.schulman > Wed, 10 Mar 2010 03:48:04 -0800 > Re: Diabetic neuropathy > > > > Its not been my finding that in all cases, treating 'Liver' makes blood > sugar rise.When I do a full 'Kiiko' palpation of the patient, from head to > toe, in some diabetic cases, Liver reflexes are very active and demand > attention - in these cases, I presume Liver metabolism of glucose is part > of the 'problem' (at the physiologic level) and when I treat accordingly, > in these cases, blood sugar responds well.I will also add, that in > addition to UB 20, in almost every diabetic patient I have ever treated as > well as any one with sugar metabolism problems of any kind (hypoglycemic > tendencies, etc), Kiiko's sugar imbalance reflex (Hua Tuo Jia Ji of T11 > and T12) is almost highly highly reactive (spastic on palpation) and when > needled directly, brings about dramatic effect. > Daniel > --- On Wed, 3/10/10, < johnkokko > wrote: > > < johnkokko > > Re: Diabetic neuropathy > Chinese Medicine > Received: Wednesday, March 10, 2010, 8:30 AM > > Dr. Snow, > > Thanks for the findings... > > Interesting that the SP and KD back-shu points lower blood sugar levels, > but > > UB 18 (LV) can make blood glucose rise. > > Is this an instance with wood overacting on earth, making the earth > weaker? > > As the Nei jing states... when problems with the earth, avoid the sour > > flavor (LV). > > K > > On Tue, Mar 9, 2010 at 10:12 AM, Donald Snow <don83407 (AT) msn (DOT) com> wrote: > >> > >> Use Kiiko's pachi-pachi e'stim with three needles on each foot with three > >> stimulations each. The results should be immediate and profound. This > >> treatment is even more efficacious when used with a Russian SCENAR with >> 60% > >> to 100% relief on the first visit. It takes 9 to 15 treatments on average > >> for permanent resolution of the neuropathy. They must control their blood > >> glucose. > >> > >> > >> > >> To lower blood glucose levels only three points are needed. It is > >> important to add no other points. Before inserting the needles, get their > >> blood glucose level. If it is high, needle the following points: > >> > >> > >> > >> PiShu/weiguanxiashu bilat > >> > >> UB 23 bilat > >> > >> Kid 3 bilat > >> > >> > >> > >> Retain needle for 30 minutes and retest their BCG. It should drop > >> significantly. If you misplace pishu and needle UB 18, their BCG will >> rise. > >> Therefore, it is important to have the correct locations. > >> > >> If you want to know more about this protocol, contact PCOM and ask for >> Dr. > >> Snow's doctoral dissertation on Diabetes. > >> > >> > >> > >> Dr. Don Snow, DAOM, MPH, L.Ac. > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> johnkokko (AT) gmail (DOT) com > >> Tue, 9 Mar 2010 09:53:47 -0800 > >> Re: Diabetic neuropathy > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> Mike, > >> Yes.... this patient is the kind of guy who doesn't want to admit that he > >> feels any pressure pain anywhere, > >> except that he complains a lot about his feet neuropathy. > >> So, the oketsu and immune were tight, but no pressure pain elicited from > >> the > >> patient. > >> Of all of the hara reflexes, adrenal (under the navel) came up, so it > >> directed me to KD 6, which halved the pins and needles sensation alone. > >> Also, LV 3 and ST 41 has been very helpful for this patient. > >> While pressing LI 4 strongly, most of the pins/needles would go away > >> completely, so that's his homework. > >> > >> The first treatment, I tried the points for peripheral neuropathy in > >> Kiiko's > >> Clinical Vol 2, but didn't see immediate results, > >> so I tried each point one-by-one checking and rechecking the nerve > >> sensation > >> on the bottom of his feet. > >> Of Kiiko's treatment from pgs. 129-137 in Vol 2, I tried Ren 12, 13, SP > >> 3.2, > >> ST Qi line, Lung 4/ 8, but these were not as effective as the points I > >> wrote > >> out earlier. Surprisingly, ST 36 and GB 34 were not as effective as I >> would > >> assume. > >> The ankle fulcrum treatment was immediately effective... KD 6, ST 41 and >> UB > >> 62, but found that UB 62 was not needed, so retained KD 6 and ST 41. I > >> have yet to try the Kiiko back treatment for peripheral neuropathy (kori > >> around UB 42, lumbar eyes, sugar points around UB 20/21), because the >> other > >> treatment was working so well, but it would be worthwhile to do that the > >> next treatment. > >> The second treatment I needled KD 1, which was very lasting through the > >> week > >> and effective, but he requested that I don't needle that point because of > >> the obvious pain that can sometimes occur, so instead, I needle LV 3 > >> thru-thru towards KD 1. > >> > >> Let me know how your treatments go.. it's good to share this info, > >> K > >> > >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 12, 2010 Report Share Posted April 12, 2010 No, I have been living in the Sportsman's Paradise of Louisiana now for almost 3 years and lovin' it. I'm looking for someone who wants to learn something very new and very effective who also is willing to move for the opportunity. Thanks, Don J. Snow, DAOM, MPH, L.Ac. Chinese Medicine petrabuchanan Fri, 9 Apr 2010 17:41:41 -0700 RE: Diabetic neuropathy Aren't you in San Diego? I would love to but I am in Santa Cruz. If you are in my area. Yes. --- On Fri, 4/9/10, Donald Snow <don83407 wrote: Donald Snow <don83407 RE: Diabetic neuropathy Chinese Traditional Medicine Friday, April 9, 2010, 1:57 PM I'm so happy for that. I get these same results 97% of the time no matter what the active sx. By the way. I am currently looking for a full-time acupuncturist to join me in my clinic now and possibly for a hospital position in the future after I train him or her up. It is a guaranteed salaried position with a percentage bonus system. We work hard here, but we pay well, too. Thanks, Dr. Donald J. Snow, Jr., DAOM, MPH Chinese Medicine petrabuchanan Fri, 9 Apr 2010 13:50:05 -0700 RE: Diabetic neuropathy Hi Donald, I wanted to let you know that I used your treatment on my patient and her symptoms completely went away for a day after just one treatment. So thank you. I love it when I can get such amazing results with just a few needles. --- On Tue, 3/16/10, Donald Snow <don83407 wrote: Donald Snow <don83407 RE: Diabetic neuropathy Chinese Traditional Medicine Tuesday, March 16, 2010, 7:36 AM I'm so sorry for the confusion. I meant Yishu/Weiguanxiashu. Hope this works for you. I am sincerely, Don Snow Chinese Medicine petrabuchanan Mon, 15 Mar 2010 19:20:21 -0700 RE: Diabetic neuropathy Hi Donald, I am a little confused. You said three points and there are four points you mentioned. Should I use Pi Shu or Wei Guan Xia Shu or both? Thank you, Petra Also my patient is starting to feel stronger and has more energy! --- On Thu, 3/11/10, Donald Snow <don83407 wrote: Donald Snow <don83407 RE: Diabetic neuropathy Chinese Traditional Medicine Thursday, March 11, 2010, 9:16 AM I used these points as empirical and I did not do any TCM diagnostics. Blood glucose levels dropped very significantly in 70% of all patients treated, and they dropped immediately and continued to drop for the remainder of the day. It must be noted that I did, indeed, experiment with other points in addition to my protocol. The result was that 100% of the time, the patient's BCG did not drop at all and even increased. That means that to get the desired results, the protocol must be rigidly followed. Sorry if that info was disappointing, but that was the research outcome. Sincerely, Dr. Don Snow, DAOM, MPH, L.Ac. Chinese Medicine daniel.schulman Wed, 10 Mar 2010 03:48:04 -0800 Re: Diabetic neuropathy Its not been my finding that in all cases, treating 'Liver' makes blood sugar rise.When I do a full 'Kiiko' palpation of the patient, from head to toe, in some diabetic cases, Liver reflexes are very active and demand attention - in these cases, I presume Liver metabolism of glucose is part of the 'problem' (at the physiologic level) and when I treat accordingly, in these cases, blood sugar responds well.I will also add, that in addition to UB 20, in almost every diabetic patient I have ever treated as well as any one with sugar metabolism problems of any kind (hypoglycemic tendencies, etc), Kiiko's sugar imbalance reflex (Hua Tuo Jia Ji of T11 and T12) is almost highly highly reactive (spastic on palpation) and when needled directly, brings about dramatic effect. Daniel --- On Wed, 3/10/10, <johnkokko wrote: <johnkokko Re: Diabetic neuropathy Chinese Medicine Received: Wednesday, March 10, 2010, 8:30 AM Dr. Snow, Thanks for the findings... Interesting that the SP and KD back-shu points lower blood sugar levels, but UB 18 (LV) can make blood glucose rise. Is this an instance with wood overacting on earth, making the earth weaker? As the Nei jing states... when problems with the earth, avoid the sour flavor (LV). K On Tue, Mar 9, 2010 at 10:12 AM, Donald Snow <don83407 (AT) msn (DOT) com> wrote: > > Use Kiiko's pachi-pachi e'stim with three needles on each foot with three > stimulations each. The results should be immediate and profound. This > treatment is even more efficacious when used with a Russian SCENAR with 60% > to 100% relief on the first visit. It takes 9 to 15 treatments on average > for permanent resolution of the neuropathy. They must control their blood > glucose. > > > > To lower blood glucose levels only three points are needed. It is > important to add no other points. Before inserting the needles, get their > blood glucose level. If it is high, needle the following points: > > > > PiShu/weiguanxiashu bilat > > UB 23 bilat > > Kid 3 bilat > > > > Retain needle for 30 minutes and retest their BCG. It should drop > significantly. If you misplace pishu and needle UB 18, their BCG will rise. > Therefore, it is important to have the correct locations. > > If you want to know more about this protocol, contact PCOM and ask for Dr. > Snow's doctoral dissertation on Diabetes. > > > > Dr. Don Snow, DAOM, MPH, L.Ac. > > > > > johnkokko (AT) gmail (DOT) com > Tue, 9 Mar 2010 09:53:47 -0800 > Re: Diabetic neuropathy > > > > > > Mike, > Yes.... this patient is the kind of guy who doesn't want to admit that he > feels any pressure pain anywhere, > except that he complains a lot about his feet neuropathy. > So, the oketsu and immune were tight, but no pressure pain elicited from > the > patient. > Of all of the hara reflexes, adrenal (under the navel) came up, so it > directed me to KD 6, which halved the pins and needles sensation alone. > Also, LV 3 and ST 41 has been very helpful for this patient. > While pressing LI 4 strongly, most of the pins/needles would go away > completely, so that's his homework. > > The first treatment, I tried the points for peripheral neuropathy in > Kiiko's > Clinical Vol 2, but didn't see immediate results, > so I tried each point one-by-one checking and rechecking the nerve > sensation > on the bottom of his feet. > Of Kiiko's treatment from pgs. 129-137 in Vol 2, I tried Ren 12, 13, SP > 3.2, > ST Qi line, Lung 4/ 8, but these were not as effective as the points I > wrote > out earlier. Surprisingly, ST 36 and GB 34 were not as effective as I would > assume. > The ankle fulcrum treatment was immediately effective... KD 6, ST 41 and UB > 62, but found that UB 62 was not needed, so retained KD 6 and ST 41. I > have yet to try the Kiiko back treatment for peripheral neuropathy (kori > around UB 42, lumbar eyes, sugar points around UB 20/21), because the other > treatment was working so well, but it would be worthwhile to do that the > next treatment. > The second treatment I needled KD 1, which was very lasting through the > week > and effective, but he requested that I don't needle that point because of > the obvious pain that can sometimes occur, so instead, I needle LV 3 > thru-thru towards KD 1. > > Let me know how your treatments go.. it's good to share this info, > K > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 12, 2010 Report Share Posted April 12, 2010 What is the pachi pachi e-stim. I don't think you mentioned that before. --- On Mon, 4/12/10, Donald Snow <don83407 wrote: Donald Snow <don83407 RE: Diabetic neuropathy Chinese Traditional Medicine Monday, April 12, 2010, 7:48 AM No, the point rx you are talking about, Weiguanxiashu, UB 23, and Ki 3 are only for Diabetes (high blood glucose). The other point rx with pachi-pachi e'stim was for neuropathy. Sincerely, Don J. Snow, DAOM, MPH, L.Ac. Chinese Medicine anne.crowley Sun, 11 Apr 2010 15:48:33 +0000 Re: Diabetic neuropathy Yes, please review them all in English. That would be quite helpful. Anne Anne C. Crowley, L.Ac., Dipl.Ac. www.LaPlataAcupuncture.com - " Angela Pfaffenberger, PH.D. " <angelapfa " Traditional " <Chinese Medicine > Friday, April 9, 2010 5:42:09 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Re: Diabetic neuropathy I am a bit confused. What are the English names of the points you are using? And the rule is only those points and no other ones and that is the treatment for diabetic neuropathy? Regards, Angela Pfaffenberger, Ph.D. angelapfa www.InnerhealthSalem.com Phone: 503 364 3022 - " Donald Snow " < don83407 > < Chinese Traditional Medicine > Friday, April 09, 2010 1:57 PM RE: Diabetic neuropathy > > I'm so happy for that. I get these same results 97% of the time no matter > what the active sx. > > > > By the way. I am currently looking for a full-time acupuncturist to join > me in my clinic now and possibly for a hospital position in the future > after I train him or her up. It is a guaranteed salaried position with a > percentage bonus system. We work hard here, but we pay well, too. > > > > Thanks, > > > Dr. Donald J. Snow, Jr., DAOM, MPH > > > > Chinese Medicine > petrabuchanan > Fri, 9 Apr 2010 13:50:05 -0700 > RE: Diabetic neuropathy Hi Donald, I wanted to let you know that I used your treatment on my > patient and her symptoms completely went away for a day after just one > treatment. So thank you. I love it when I can get such amazing results > with just a few needles. > --- On Tue, 3/16/10, Donald Snow < don83407 > wrote: > > Donald Snow < don83407 > > RE: Diabetic neuropathy > Chinese Traditional Medicine > Tuesday, March 16, 2010, 7:36 AM > > I'm so sorry for the confusion. I meant Yishu/Weiguanxiashu. Hope this > works for you. > > I am sincerely, > > Don Snow > > > Chinese Medicine > petrabuchanan > Mon, 15 Mar 2010 19:20:21 -0700 > RE: Diabetic neuropathy > > > > Hi Donald, I am a little confused. You said three points and there are > four points you mentioned. Should I use Pi Shu or Wei Guan Xia Shu or > both? > > Thank you, Petra > > Also my patient is starting to feel stronger and has more energy! > > --- On Thu, 3/11/10, Donald Snow < don83407 > wrote: > > Donald Snow < don83407 > > RE: Diabetic neuropathy > Chinese Traditional Medicine > Thursday, March 11, 2010, 9:16 AM > > I used these points as empirical and I did not do any TCM diagnostics. > Blood glucose levels dropped very significantly in 70% of all patients > treated, and they dropped immediately and continued to drop for the > remainder of the day. It must be noted that I did, indeed, experiment > with other points in addition to my protocol. The result was that 100% of > the time, the patient's BCG did not drop at all and even increased. That > means that to get the desired results, the protocol must be rigidly > followed. > > Sorry if that info was disappointing, but that was the research outcome. > > Sincerely, > > Dr. Don Snow, DAOM, MPH, L.Ac. > > Chinese Medicine > daniel.schulman > Wed, 10 Mar 2010 03:48:04 -0800 > Re: Diabetic neuropathy > > > > Its not been my finding that in all cases, treating 'Liver' makes blood > sugar rise.When I do a full 'Kiiko' palpation of the patient, from head to > toe, in some diabetic cases, Liver reflexes are very active and demand > attention - in these cases, I presume Liver metabolism of glucose is part > of the 'problem' (at the physiologic level) and when I treat accordingly, > in these cases, blood sugar responds well.I will also add, that in > addition to UB 20, in almost every diabetic patient I have ever treated as > well as any one with sugar metabolism problems of any kind (hypoglycemic > tendencies, etc), Kiiko's sugar imbalance reflex (Hua Tuo Jia Ji of T11 > and T12) is almost highly highly reactive (spastic on palpation) and when > needled directly, brings about dramatic effect. > Daniel > --- On Wed, 3/10/10, < johnkokko > wrote: > > < johnkokko > > Re: Diabetic neuropathy > Chinese Medicine > Received: Wednesday, March 10, 2010, 8:30 AM > > Dr. Snow, > > Thanks for the findings... > > Interesting that the SP and KD back-shu points lower blood sugar levels, > but > > UB 18 (LV) can make blood glucose rise. > > Is this an instance with wood overacting on earth, making the earth > weaker? > > As the Nei jing states... when problems with the earth, avoid the sour > > flavor (LV). > > K > > On Tue, Mar 9, 2010 at 10:12 AM, Donald Snow <don83407 (AT) msn (DOT) com> wrote: > >> > >> Use Kiiko's pachi-pachi e'stim with three needles on each foot with three > >> stimulations each. The results should be immediate and profound. This > >> treatment is even more efficacious when used with a Russian SCENAR with >> 60% > >> to 100% relief on the first visit. It takes 9 to 15 treatments on average > >> for permanent resolution of the neuropathy. They must control their blood > >> glucose. > >> > >> > >> > >> To lower blood glucose levels only three points are needed. It is > >> important to add no other points. Before inserting the needles, get their > >> blood glucose level. If it is high, needle the following points: > >> > >> > >> > >> PiShu/weiguanxiashu bilat > >> > >> UB 23 bilat > >> > >> Kid 3 bilat > >> > >> > >> > >> Retain needle for 30 minutes and retest their BCG. It should drop > >> significantly. If you misplace pishu and needle UB 18, their BCG will >> rise. > >> Therefore, it is important to have the correct locations. > >> > >> If you want to know more about this protocol, contact PCOM and ask for >> Dr. > >> Snow's doctoral dissertation on Diabetes. > >> > >> > >> > >> Dr. Don Snow, DAOM, MPH, L.Ac. > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> johnkokko (AT) gmail (DOT) com > >> Tue, 9 Mar 2010 09:53:47 -0800 > >> Re: Diabetic neuropathy > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> Mike, > >> Yes.... this patient is the kind of guy who doesn't want to admit that he > >> feels any pressure pain anywhere, > >> except that he complains a lot about his feet neuropathy. > >> So, the oketsu and immune were tight, but no pressure pain elicited from > >> the > >> patient. > >> Of all of the hara reflexes, adrenal (under the navel) came up, so it > >> directed me to KD 6, which halved the pins and needles sensation alone. > >> Also, LV 3 and ST 41 has been very helpful for this patient. > >> While pressing LI 4 strongly, most of the pins/needles would go away > >> completely, so that's his homework. > >> > >> The first treatment, I tried the points for peripheral neuropathy in > >> Kiiko's > >> Clinical Vol 2, but didn't see immediate results, > >> so I tried each point one-by-one checking and rechecking the nerve > >> sensation > >> on the bottom of his feet. > >> Of Kiiko's treatment from pgs. 129-137 in Vol 2, I tried Ren 12, 13, SP > >> 3.2, > >> ST Qi line, Lung 4/ 8, but these were not as effective as the points I > >> wrote > >> out earlier. Surprisingly, ST 36 and GB 34 were not as effective as I >> would > >> assume. > >> The ankle fulcrum treatment was immediately effective... KD 6, ST 41 and >> UB > >> 62, but found that UB 62 was not needed, so retained KD 6 and ST 41. I > >> have yet to try the Kiiko back treatment for peripheral neuropathy (kori > >> around UB 42, lumbar eyes, sugar points around UB 20/21), because the >> other > >> treatment was working so well, but it would be worthwhile to do that the > >> next treatment. > >> The second treatment I needled KD 1, which was very lasting through the > >> week > >> and effective, but he requested that I don't needle that point because of > >> the obvious pain that can sometimes occur, so instead, I needle LV 3 > >> thru-thru towards KD 1. > >> > >> Let me know how your treatments go.. it's good to share this info, > >> K > >> > >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 12, 2010 Report Share Posted April 12, 2010 Sorry, I found it. Thank you Donald --- On Mon, 4/12/10, Donald Snow <don83407 wrote: Donald Snow <don83407 RE: Diabetic neuropathy Chinese Traditional Medicine Monday, April 12, 2010, 8:03 AM No, I have been living in the Sportsman's Paradise of Louisiana now for almost 3 years and lovin' it. I'm looking for someone who wants to learn something very new and very effective who also is willing to move for the opportunity. Thanks, Don J. Snow, DAOM, MPH, L.Ac. Chinese Medicine petrabuchanan Fri, 9 Apr 2010 17:41:41 -0700 RE: Diabetic neuropathy Aren't you in San Diego? I would love to but I am in Santa Cruz. If you are in my area. Yes. --- On Fri, 4/9/10, Donald Snow <don83407 wrote: Donald Snow <don83407 RE: Diabetic neuropathy Chinese Traditional Medicine Friday, April 9, 2010, 1:57 PM I'm so happy for that. I get these same results 97% of the time no matter what the active sx. By the way. I am currently looking for a full-time acupuncturist to join me in my clinic now and possibly for a hospital position in the future after I train him or her up. It is a guaranteed salaried position with a percentage bonus system. We work hard here, but we pay well, too. Thanks, Dr. Donald J. Snow, Jr., DAOM, MPH Chinese Medicine petrabuchanan Fri, 9 Apr 2010 13:50:05 -0700 RE: Diabetic neuropathy Hi Donald, I wanted to let you know that I used your treatment on my patient and her symptoms completely went away for a day after just one treatment. So thank you. I love it when I can get such amazing results with just a few needles. --- On Tue, 3/16/10, Donald Snow <don83407 wrote: Donald Snow <don83407 RE: Diabetic neuropathy Chinese Traditional Medicine Tuesday, March 16, 2010, 7:36 AM I'm so sorry for the confusion. I meant Yishu/Weiguanxiashu. Hope this works for you. I am sincerely, Don Snow Chinese Medicine petrabuchanan Mon, 15 Mar 2010 19:20:21 -0700 RE: Diabetic neuropathy Hi Donald, I am a little confused. You said three points and there are four points you mentioned. Should I use Pi Shu or Wei Guan Xia Shu or both? Thank you, Petra Also my patient is starting to feel stronger and has more energy! --- On Thu, 3/11/10, Donald Snow <don83407 wrote: Donald Snow <don83407 RE: Diabetic neuropathy Chinese Traditional Medicine Thursday, March 11, 2010, 9:16 AM I used these points as empirical and I did not do any TCM diagnostics. Blood glucose levels dropped very significantly in 70% of all patients treated, and they dropped immediately and continued to drop for the remainder of the day. It must be noted that I did, indeed, experiment with other points in addition to my protocol. The result was that 100% of the time, the patient's BCG did not drop at all and even increased. That means that to get the desired results, the protocol must be rigidly followed. Sorry if that info was disappointing, but that was the research outcome. Sincerely, Dr. Don Snow, DAOM, MPH, L.Ac. Chinese Medicine daniel.schulman Wed, 10 Mar 2010 03:48:04 -0800 Re: Diabetic neuropathy Its not been my finding that in all cases, treating 'Liver' makes blood sugar rise.When I do a full 'Kiiko' palpation of the patient, from head to toe, in some diabetic cases, Liver reflexes are very active and demand attention - in these cases, I presume Liver metabolism of glucose is part of the 'problem' (at the physiologic level) and when I treat accordingly, in these cases, blood sugar responds well.I will also add, that in addition to UB 20, in almost every diabetic patient I have ever treated as well as any one with sugar metabolism problems of any kind (hypoglycemic tendencies, etc), Kiiko's sugar imbalance reflex (Hua Tuo Jia Ji of T11 and T12) is almost highly highly reactive (spastic on palpation) and when needled directly, brings about dramatic effect. Daniel --- On Wed, 3/10/10, <johnkokko wrote: <johnkokko Re: Diabetic neuropathy Chinese Medicine Received: Wednesday, March 10, 2010, 8:30 AM Dr. Snow, Thanks for the findings... Interesting that the SP and KD back-shu points lower blood sugar levels, but UB 18 (LV) can make blood glucose rise. Is this an instance with wood overacting on earth, making the earth weaker? As the Nei jing states... when problems with the earth, avoid the sour flavor (LV). K On Tue, Mar 9, 2010 at 10:12 AM, Donald Snow <don83407 (AT) msn (DOT) com> wrote: > > Use Kiiko's pachi-pachi e'stim with three needles on each foot with three > stimulations each. The results should be immediate and profound. This > treatment is even more efficacious when used with a Russian SCENAR with 60% > to 100% relief on the first visit. It takes 9 to 15 treatments on average > for permanent resolution of the neuropathy. They must control their blood > glucose. > > > > To lower blood glucose levels only three points are needed. It is > important to add no other points. Before inserting the needles, get their > blood glucose level. If it is high, needle the following points: > > > > PiShu/weiguanxiashu bilat > > UB 23 bilat > > Kid 3 bilat > > > > Retain needle for 30 minutes and retest their BCG. It should drop > significantly. If you misplace pishu and needle UB 18, their BCG will rise. > Therefore, it is important to have the correct locations. > > If you want to know more about this protocol, contact PCOM and ask for Dr. > Snow's doctoral dissertation on Diabetes. > > > > Dr. Don Snow, DAOM, MPH, L.Ac. > > > > > johnkokko (AT) gmail (DOT) com > Tue, 9 Mar 2010 09:53:47 -0800 > Re: Diabetic neuropathy > > > > > > Mike, > Yes.... this patient is the kind of guy who doesn't want to admit that he > feels any pressure pain anywhere, > except that he complains a lot about his feet neuropathy. > So, the oketsu and immune were tight, but no pressure pain elicited from > the > patient. > Of all of the hara reflexes, adrenal (under the navel) came up, so it > directed me to KD 6, which halved the pins and needles sensation alone. > Also, LV 3 and ST 41 has been very helpful for this patient. > While pressing LI 4 strongly, most of the pins/needles would go away > completely, so that's his homework. > > The first treatment, I tried the points for peripheral neuropathy in > Kiiko's > Clinical Vol 2, but didn't see immediate results, > so I tried each point one-by-one checking and rechecking the nerve > sensation > on the bottom of his feet. > Of Kiiko's treatment from pgs. 129-137 in Vol 2, I tried Ren 12, 13, SP > 3.2, > ST Qi line, Lung 4/ 8, but these were not as effective as the points I > wrote > out earlier. Surprisingly, ST 36 and GB 34 were not as effective as I would > assume. > The ankle fulcrum treatment was immediately effective... KD 6, ST 41 and UB > 62, but found that UB 62 was not needed, so retained KD 6 and ST 41. I > have yet to try the Kiiko back treatment for peripheral neuropathy (kori > around UB 42, lumbar eyes, sugar points around UB 20/21), because the other > treatment was working so well, but it would be worthwhile to do that the > next treatment. > The second treatment I needled KD 1, which was very lasting through the > week > and effective, but he requested that I don't needle that point because of > the obvious pain that can sometimes occur, so instead, I needle LV 3 > thru-thru towards KD 1. > > Let me know how your treatments go.. it's good to share this info, > K > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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