Guest guest Posted March 15, 2010 Report Share Posted March 15, 2010 Tom, I have a patient with CTS and wanted to use the treatment protocol you talked about at one point. I have the drawing of the hand with the A1, A2, B1, and B2 points as well as notes stating turn points A2 and B1 clockwise and A1 and B2 counterclockwise (doing A points at same time, etc) but I am not 100% certain of the points are on the dorsal or palmar side of the hand. Please advise. Thank you. In health, Kathleen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 15, 2010 Report Share Posted March 15, 2010 Hi Kathleen, I can confirm that all the points are on the palms. Good luck- Tom. Tom Verhaeghe Stationsplein 59 8770 Ingelmunster www.chinese-geneeskunde.be _____ Chinese Medicine Chinese Medicine On Behalf Of K maandag 15 maart 2010 22:49 Chinese Medicine CTS and info from Tom Verhaeghe Tom, I have a patient with CTS and wanted to use the treatment protocol you talked about at one point. I have the drawing of the hand with the A1, A2, B1, and B2 points as well as notes stating turn points A2 and B1 clockwise and A1 and B2 counterclockwise (doing A points at same time, etc) but I am not 100% certain of the points are on the dorsal or palmar side of the hand. Please advise. Thank you. In health, Kathleen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 15, 2010 Report Share Posted March 15, 2010 Wow, that was fast. Thank you for the information. Â I treated the patient earlier this morning (recalled your info but did not have time to contact you then) and, using needles and microcurrent, managed to get rid of 80% of the wrist pain, but there is still some tightness in the forearm. Â I will use the A and B treatment when I see her next week. Have a lovely day. Kathleen --- On Mon, 3/15/10, Tom Verhaeghe <tom.verhaeghe wrote: Tom Verhaeghe <tom.verhaeghe RE: CTS and info from Tom Verhaeghe Chinese Medicine Monday, March 15, 2010, 3:55 PM Â Hi Kathleen, I can confirm that all the points are on the palms. Good luck- Tom. Tom Verhaeghe Stationsplein 59 8770 Ingelmunster www.chinese- geneeskunde. be _____ Traditional_ Chinese_Medicine [Traditional_ Chinese_Medicine ] On Behalf Of K maandag 15 maart 2010 22:49 CTS and info from Tom Verhaeghe Tom, I have a patient with CTS and wanted to use the treatment protocol you talked about at one point. I have the drawing of the hand with the A1, A2, B1, and B2 points as well as notes stating turn points A2 and B1 clockwise and A1 and B2 counterclockwise (doing A points at same time, etc) but I am not 100% certain of the points are on the dorsal or palmar side of the hand. Please advise. Thank you. In health, Kathleen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 16, 2010 Report Share Posted March 16, 2010 Did I miss what these points are exactly. Sounds like you had great success. If it is in another email can you send it again. Anne Anne C. Crowley, L.Ac., Dipl.Ac. www.LaPlataAcupuncture.com - " Kathleen Mathews " <kthmathews2003 " Traditional " <Chinese Medicine > Monday, March 15, 2010 6:23:08 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern RE:  CTS and info from Tom Verhaeghe  Wow, that was fast. Thank you for the information.  I treated the patient earlier this morning (recalled your info but did not have time to contact you then) and, using needles and microcurrent, managed to get rid of 80% of the wrist pain, but there is still some tightness in the forearm.  I will use the A and B treatment when I see her next week. Have a lovely day. Kathleen --- On Mon, 3/15/10, Tom Verhaeghe < tom.verhaeghe > wrote: Tom Verhaeghe < tom.verhaeghe > RE: CTS and info from Tom Verhaeghe Chinese Medicine Monday, March 15, 2010, 3:55 PM  Hi Kathleen, I can confirm that all the points are on the palms. Good luck- Tom. Tom Verhaeghe Stationsplein 59 8770 Ingelmunster www.chinese- geneeskunde. be _____ Traditional_ Chinese_Medicine [Traditional_ Chinese_Medicine ] On Behalf Of K maandag 15 maart 2010 22:49 CTS and info from Tom Verhaeghe Tom, I have a patient with CTS and wanted to use the treatment protocol you talked about at one point. I have the drawing of the hand with the A1, A2, B1, and B2 points as well as notes stating turn points A2 and B1 clockwise and A1 and B2 counterclockwise (doing A points at same time, etc) but I am not 100% certain of the points are on the dorsal or palmar side of the hand. Please advise. Thank you. In health, Kathleen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 16, 2010 Report Share Posted March 16, 2010 Anne,  I sent an email with the info but realized it did not go to the TCM group (just the person who asked for it off group and a note to her: I added a couple of comments to this posting).  Here it is minus Tom's hand drawing which is not on my computer, but should be in the archives... , I am not in my office today but will try to recall all the points I used.  Most of the info will be in the archives but I do have the following: from an early posting from Tom V:have been using a protocol for CTS that I found in a Chinese article. The translated title of the article is " horizontal unidirectional needling in treatment of 48 cases of CTS " , published in Chinese Acupuncture and Moxibustion, Aug 2002, Vol. 22, No. 8, p. 550. It was written by Peng Jiang-Hua. The technique has worked really well on my CTS patients, so I thought I'd share it to the group. I have uploaded a file to the files/ articles/ acupuncture section of the that shows a picture of the extra points used in this protocol. The points clearly aim to reduce pressure in the carpal tunnel, and they do so by " loosening and elongating the retinaculum flexorum, increasing its elasticity, and increasing the volume of the carpal tunnel and decreasing pressure on the n. medianus in the carpal tunnel. " Location of the points: (look at the picture that I uploaded) let the patient make a fist and you can see three lines (lines between the fingers). We don't need the middle " line " but we need the line between the index and middle finger = line B, and the line between the ring finger and the little finger= line A. At the proximal side, point A1 is to be found where line A crosses the hypothenar, and A2 is to be found appr. 2 cm distally. And again proximally, point B1 is to be found where line B crosses the thenar bulge, and B2 2 cm distal from there. You will notice that these four points are the attchachments of the retinaculum flexorum. Technique: Needle the four points like in the picture; needles are to be inserted horizontally, facing each other. First needle perpendicularly, and then move to a 15 degree angle (so that the needles are almost horizontal). Insert the needles appr 0.8 cms deep. After insertion, manipulate the needles in pairs: for the A points, the practitioner stands on the ulnar side: right hand grasps the A2 needle, left hand graps A1 needle. Right hand turns the needle clockwise, and the left hand turns the needle counterclockwise, so that the needles move in the same direction. You twist the needles rapidly and until you feel you cannot twist the needle any further. Then tape the needles to the palm, or let an assistant hold the needles horizontally. for the B points, the practitioner stands on the radial side: right hand grasps the B1 needle, left hand graps B2 needle. Right hand turns the needle clockwise, and the left hand turns the needle counterclockwise, so that the needles move in the same direction. You twist the needles rapidly and until you feel you cannot twist the needle any further. Then tape the needles to the palm, or hold the needles horizontally. After 20 minutes of releasing the retinaculum with the previous technique, remove the needles and apply some three minutes of mild moxibustion to each of the four points, until some redness appears. Treatment may be done every day (in China, yes), 10 treatments make up one course, if necessary start a second course. Needless to say that results were excellent : ) only 2 people got no benefit of this treatment (4.2%). 45.8% cured. and 50% markedly better. Anyway, I have used the technique with success in my clinic. Even after one time people report significant benefit. I just met a patient today on the street, whom I treated only one time. She felt so good that she forgot to make a new appointment. She said she could still feel some numbness, but she could easily sleep through the night. Other patients also report benefit. Make sure your technique is good for needling the four points. Better tell them beforehand it possibly might hurt a bit - don't forget the patient still has a good hand to strike you : ) I sometimes combine this with (deep) needling on Daling PC7. Hope all of this is clear; if you want to read the original in Chinese, please send me an email... Greetings from a sunny Belgium, Tom. from Tom:  I see, just follow the " lines " BETWEEN 2nd and 3rd finger, and 4th and 5th finger (= the line that extends from proximal to distal phalanx). You can either extend or flex the fingers; the phalangeal line stays the same. I know, it is not a common " line " to use in anatomy, but that is the description used in the article. ================================================Whit Reeves seminar notes: Carpal Tunnel 1) thread between two tendon distal towards P8. Start 0.5 cun prox to P7, or P6, or 0.5 cun distal to P7. Should be able to thread a two inch needle. Needle with straight wrist, no flexion or extension, or maybe 15 degree flexion. If pain, can change angle of wrist or pull out slightly and change direction. 2) ST41 very effective in limited cases - use same side i) - ST41 & rotate wrist ii) - local points iii) finish with ST41 stim Self help: taping wrist - wrap to pull the ulnar and radial surfaces together to squeeze & create more space under the retinaculum until the swelling goes down.  wearing braces In general, alternating ice & heat. Do what doesn’t aggravate the situation. Can use alternating ice/heat for five mins each and end with heat. Can use frozen peas for ice You want to avoid doing something to increase the heat (TCM heat) If it’s not overly hot, assume it’s cold to neutral (because most people wait a while before they come in, so it’s usually a chronic situation) Megadoses of Vit B6 - 250 mg 3x/day * opposite extremity - ST41, LR4 * primary lesion - Thread from 1/2 cun before PC7 to PC8, add PC6, PC4.Can also treat shoulder - SI11, SI12, SI13, SI14, SI10===============================================================  (I did NOT thread at all preferring to use the pantheon microcurrent).   Started with  SI 10, 11, 12, 14.   I added BL 60 and LIV 4 along with ST 41.  P7, 6, 5, 4, SI 8, 7, LI5 and SI5 plus ashi points along the PC & SI channels.Microcurrent pads close to LI5 & SI5 and on dorsum and palm of hand/wrist.  And Scalp acupuncture " Point C " where it was tender (YNSA book).  All points were on the side of the disharmony with the exception of ankle points (I used bilaterally), and Point C (contralateral). Patient has had disharmony for approximately 5 years but it had gotten worse in the last few months.  Patient reported 80% improvement after the TX with some tightness in the forearm around P4 (I used some Zheng Gu Shui). As this was the first time I saw patient, I did Kiiko's Shock TX first and added some auricular points.  Left those needles in about 15 minutes, then did 2nd tx for CTS. Hope this helps.Kathleen --- On Tue, 3/16/10, Anne Crowley <anne.crowley wrote: Anne Crowley <anne.crowley Re: CTS and info from Tom Verhaeghe " Traditional " <Chinese Medicine > Tuesday, March 16, 2010, 8:52 AM  Did I miss what these points are exactly. Sounds like you had great success. If it is in another email can you send it again. Anne Anne C. Crowley, L.Ac., Dipl.Ac. www.LaPlataAcupunct ure.com - " Kathleen Mathews " <kthmathews2003@ > " Traditional " <Traditional_ Chinese_Medicine @. com> Monday, March 15, 2010 6:23:08 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern RE:  CTS and info from Tom Verhaeghe  Wow, that was fast. Thank you for the information.  I treated the patient earlier this morning (recalled your info but did not have time to contact you then) and, using needles and microcurrent, managed to get rid of 80% of the wrist pain, but there is still some tightness in the forearm.  I will use the A and B treatment when I see her next week. Have a lovely day. Kathleen --- On Mon, 3/15/10, Tom Verhaeghe < tom.verhaeghe@ acupunctuur. org > wrote: Tom Verhaeghe < tom.verhaeghe@ acupunctuur. org > RE: CTS and info from Tom Verhaeghe Monday, March 15, 2010, 3:55 PM  Hi Kathleen, I can confirm that all the points are on the palms. Good luck- Tom. Tom Verhaeghe Stationsplein 59 8770 Ingelmunster www.chinese- geneeskunde. be _____ Traditional_ Chinese_Medicine [Traditional _ Chinese_Medicine ] On Behalf Of K maandag 15 maart 2010 22:49 CTS and info from Tom Verhaeghe Tom, I have a patient with CTS and wanted to use the treatment protocol you talked about at one point. I have the drawing of the hand with the A1, A2, B1, and B2 points as well as notes stating turn points A2 and B1 clockwise and A1 and B2 counterclockwise (doing A points at same time, etc) but I am not 100% certain of the points are on the dorsal or palmar side of the hand. Please advise. Thank you. In health, Kathleen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 16, 2010 Report Share Posted March 16, 2010 Anne,The file is titled CTS unidirectional needling.doc --- On Tue, 3/16/10, Anne Crowley <anne.crowley wrote: Anne Crowley <anne.crowley Re: CTS and info from Tom Verhaeghe " Traditional " <Chinese Medicine > Tuesday, March 16, 2010, 8:52 AM  Did I miss what these points are exactly. Sounds like you had great success. If it is in another email can you send it again. Anne Anne C. Crowley, L.Ac., Dipl.Ac. www.LaPlataAcupunct ure.com - " Kathleen Mathews " <kthmathews2003@ > " Traditional " <Traditional_ Chinese_Medicine @. com> Monday, March 15, 2010 6:23:08 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern RE:  CTS and info from Tom Verhaeghe  Wow, that was fast. Thank you for the information.  I treated the patient earlier this morning (recalled your info but did not have time to contact you then) and, using needles and microcurrent, managed to get rid of 80% of the wrist pain, but there is still some tightness in the forearm.  I will use the A and B treatment when I see her next week. Have a lovely day. Kathleen --- On Mon, 3/15/10, Tom Verhaeghe < tom.verhaeghe@ acupunctuur. org > wrote: Tom Verhaeghe < tom.verhaeghe@ acupunctuur. org > RE: CTS and info from Tom Verhaeghe Monday, March 15, 2010, 3:55 PM  Hi Kathleen, I can confirm that all the points are on the palms. Good luck- Tom. Tom Verhaeghe Stationsplein 59 8770 Ingelmunster www.chinese- geneeskunde. be _____ Traditional_ Chinese_Medicine [Traditional _ Chinese_Medicine ] On Behalf Of K maandag 15 maart 2010 22:49 CTS and info from Tom Verhaeghe Tom, I have a patient with CTS and wanted to use the treatment protocol you talked about at one point. I have the drawing of the hand with the A1, A2, B1, and B2 points as well as notes stating turn points A2 and B1 clockwise and A1 and B2 counterclockwise (doing A points at same time, etc) but I am not 100% certain of the points are on the dorsal or palmar side of the hand. Please advise. Thank you. In health, Kathleen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 16, 2010 Report Share Posted March 16, 2010 Tom Can u tell what this treatment of CTS is and were are these points? thanks 400 29th St. Suite 419 Oakland Ca 94609 alonmarcus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 17, 2010 Report Share Posted March 17, 2010 Hi Alon, we discussed this some two years ago. Have a look at the archives (didn't Kathleen re-post some of it?), you'll see you were also part of the discussion :-) Tom Verhaeghe Stationsplein 59 8770 Ingelmunster www.chinese-geneeskunde.be _____ Chinese Medicine Chinese Medicine On Behalf Of alon marcus dinsdag 16 maart 2010 22:28 Chinese Medicine Re: CTS and info from Tom Verhaeghe Tom Can u tell what this treatment of CTS is and were are these points? thanks 400 29th St. Suite 419 Oakland Ca 94609 alonmarcus (AT) wans (DOT) <alonmarcus%40wans.net> net Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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