Point swabbing as a public relations exercise

[Guest guest]

Hi Hugo, & All,

 

> Hi Phil, I don't recommend the specificity of the cotton swab comment.

> If someone practices clean needle technique, then publicise that,

> but it may even be taken as irresponsibility or ignorance by some

> to imply that all it takes is a cotton swab. The creation of a sterile

> field followed by the correct swabbing technique is kind of a minimum.

> Cotton swabbing for the most part just moves flora around, anyway.

>  Certainly the one-use needle policy is important since all outbreaks

> have been caused by re-use of needles. Hugo

 

Yes, the use of sterile single-use needles [discarded after use] is the most

important step in

preventing cross-infection.

 

I know that swabbing the point with an alcohol wipe cannot sterilise the skin,

not to mention

kill bacteria in the deeper layers (hair follicles / sweat / sebum glands, etc).

 

I also know that the vast majority of my human and veterinary acupuncture

colleasgues use

no site swabbing, yet have very very few problems of local (point) infection /

inflammation

afterwards.

 

HOWEVER, point swabbing may have public relations value, especially with clients

who fear

infection.

 

Best regards,

 

[Guest guest]

As a scrub and circulating nurse in a major trauma center I can tell you you are

not setting up a sterile field without  ungloved sterile hands. It is a clean

field at best. The skin has to be washed with betadine scrub for 10 minutes or

one of the other scrubs we used. The studies in nursing have been out for many

years verifiying that alcohol does nothing more than remove the surface dirt and

makes the patient feel better. Now if you get hauled into the court the first

thing they are going to ask is did you follow standard technique and the answer

better be yes I used alcohol and rubbed from the center out. Go figure  

 

--- On Thu, 3/25/10, < wrote:

 

 

<

Point swabbing as a public relations exercise

Chinese Medicine

Thursday, March 25, 2010, 5:20 PM

 

 

 

 

 

 

Hi Hugo, & All,

 

> Hi Phil, I don't recommend the specificity of the cotton swab comment.

> If someone practices clean needle technique, then publicise that,

> but it may even be taken as irresponsibility or ignorance by some

> to imply that all it takes is a cotton swab. The creation of a sterile

> field followed by the correct swabbing technique is kind of a minimum.

> Cotton swabbing for the most part just moves flora around, anyway.

>  Certainly the one-use needle policy is important since all outbreaks

> have been caused by re-use of needles. Hugo

 

Yes, the use of sterile single-use needles [discarded after use] is the most

important step in

preventing cross-infection.

 

I know that swabbing the point with an alcohol wipe cannot sterilise the skin,

not to mention

kill bacteria in the deeper layers (hair follicles / sweat / sebum glands, etc).

 

I also know that the vast majority of my human and veterinary acupuncture

colleasgues use

no site swabbing, yet have very very few problems of local (point) infection /

inflammation

afterwards.

 

HOWEVER, point swabbing may have public relations value, especially with clients

who fear

infection.

 

Best regards,

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

this is an interesting point in the point swabbing. for many years i didn't

do this and never had an incident. a few years ago and acu student came to

observe at my clinic and i realized i needed to work by the book for a

student observer. i started swabbing at that time and continued the

practice as i felt i needed to be consistent with all my patients at all

time. i've kept up the practice as legally we have to, but i've never

really felt it was necessary, and really just wastes time, ohol and cotton

balls.

 

wondering how others feel about it? is there any value for someone who is

not visibly dirty or sweaty?

 

kath

 

On Thu, Mar 25, 2010 at 5:20 PM, < wrote:

 

>

>

> Hi Hugo, & All,

>

> > Hi Phil, I don't recommend the specificity of the cotton swab comment.

> > If someone practices clean needle technique, then publicise that,

> > but it may even be taken as irresponsibility or ignorance by some

> > to imply that all it takes is a cotton swab. The creation of a sterile

> > field followed by the correct swabbing technique is kind of a minimum.

> > Cotton swabbing for the most part just moves flora around, anyway.

> > Certainly the one-use needle policy is important since all outbreaks

> > have been caused by re-use of needles. Hugo

>

> Yes, the use of sterile single-use needles [discarded after use] is the

> most important step in

> preventing cross-infection.

>

> I know that swabbing the point with an alcohol wipe cannot sterilise the

> skin, not to mention

> kill bacteria in the deeper layers (hair follicles / sweat / sebum glands,

> etc).

>

> I also know that the vast majority of my human and veterinary acupuncture

> colleasgues use

> no site swabbing, yet have very very few problems of local (point)

> infection / inflammation

> afterwards.

>

> HOWEVER, point swabbing may have public relations value, especially with

> clients who fear

> infection.

>

> Best regards,

>

>

>

>

>

 

 

--

Kath Bartlett, LAc, MS, BA UCLA

Oriental Medicine

Experienced, Dedicated, Effective

 

 

Abstain from all that is evil.

Perform all that is good.

Purify your thoughts.

This is the teaching of the Buddhas.

 

Follow Your Bliss!

Joseph Campbel

 

 

Kath's Blog about , Healthy Living & Spirituality:

http://acukath.blogspot.com/

 

Flying Dragon Liniment: Effective pain relief for muscles & joints

Formulated by Kath Bartlett, Traditional Chinese Herbalist

Available at Asheville Center for :

www.FlyingDragonLiniment.com

 

Greenlife Grocery - Asheville, NC

 

Amazon.com

http://www.amazon.com/Flying-Dragon-Liniment-Eco-Friendly-Wild-Crafted/dp/B001OC\

1AZ2/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8 & s=hpc & qid=1254968032 & sr=8-1

 

 

and from the following supply companies:

Kamwo Herbal Pharmacy: NY - Chinatown

https://www.kamwo.com/shop/product.php?productid=17442 & cat=0 & page=1

 

Golden Needle Acupuncture, Herbal & Medical Supply - Candler, NC

http://www.goldenneedleonline.com/index.php?page=categories & category=14 & vendor= & \

product=5554 & pg=

 

 

Asheville Center For

70 Woodfin Place, Suite West Wing Two

Asheville, NC 28801 828.258.2777

kbartlett

www.AcupunctureAsheville.com

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

The evaporation of the alcohol is very cooling.  I wonder about the local point

energetic implications of this cooling action prior to needling.

 

--- On Thu, 3/25/10, wrote:

 

 

Re: Point swabbing as a public relations exercise

Chinese Medicine

Received: Thursday, March 25, 2010, 9:37 PM

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

this is an interesting point in the point swabbing. for many years i

didn't

 

do this and never had an incident. a few years ago and acu student came to

 

observe at my clinic and i realized i needed to work by the book for a

 

student observer. i started swabbing at that time and continued the

 

practice as i felt i needed to be consistent with all my patients at all

 

time. i've kept up the practice as legally we have to, but i've never

 

really felt it was necessary, and really just wastes time, ohol and cotton

 

balls.

 

 

 

wondering how others feel about it? is there any value for someone who is

 

not visibly dirty or sweaty?

 

 

 

kath

 

 

 

On Thu, Mar 25, 2010 at 5:20 PM, < (AT) tinet (DOT) ie> wrote:

 

 

 

>

 

>

 

> Hi Hugo, & All,

 

>

 

> > Hi Phil, I don't recommend the specificity of the cotton swab comment.

 

> > If someone practices clean needle technique, then publicise that,

 

> > but it may even be taken as irresponsibility or ignorance by some

 

> > to imply that all it takes is a cotton swab. The creation of a sterile

 

> > field followed by the correct swabbing technique is kind of a minimum.

 

> > Cotton swabbing for the most part just moves flora around, anyway.

 

> > Certainly the one-use needle policy is important since all outbreaks

 

> > have been caused by re-use of needles. Hugo

 

>

 

> Yes, the use of sterile single-use needles [discarded after use] is the

 

> most important step in

 

> preventing cross-infection.

 

>

 

> I know that swabbing the point with an alcohol wipe cannot sterilise the

 

> skin, not to mention

 

> kill bacteria in the deeper layers (hair follicles / sweat / sebum glands,

 

> etc).

 

>

 

> I also know that the vast majority of my human and veterinary acupuncture

 

> colleasgues use

 

> no site swabbing, yet have very very few problems of local (point)

 

> infection / inflammation

 

> afterwards.

 

>

 

> HOWEVER, point swabbing may have public relations value, especially with

 

> clients who fear

 

> infection.

 

>

 

> Best regards,

 

>

 

>

 

>

 

>

 

>

 

 

 

--

 

Kath Bartlett, LAc, MS, BA UCLA

 

Oriental Medicine

 

Experienced, Dedicated, Effective

 

 

 

Abstain from all that is evil.

 

Perform all that is good.

 

Purify your thoughts.

 

This is the teaching of the Buddhas.

 

 

 

Follow Your Bliss!

 

Joseph Campbel

 

 

 

Kath's Blog about , Healthy Living & Spirituality:

 

http://acukath. blogspot. com/

 

 

 

Flying Dragon Liniment: Effective pain relief for muscles & joints

 

Formulated by Kath Bartlett, Traditional Chinese Herbalist

 

Available at Asheville Center for :

 

www.FlyingDragonLin iment.com

 

 

 

Greenlife Grocery - Asheville, NC

 

 

 

Amazon.com

 

http://www.amazon. com/Flying- Dragon-Liniment- Eco-Friendly- Wild-Crafted/

dp/B001OC1AZ2/ ref=sr_1_ 1?ie=UTF8 & s=hpc & qid= 1254968032 & sr=8-1

 

 

 

and from the following supply companies:

 

Kamwo Herbal Pharmacy: NY - Chinatown

 

https://www. kamwo.com/ shop/product. php?productid= 17442 & cat= 0 & page=1

 

 

 

Golden Needle Acupuncture, Herbal & Medical Supply - Candler, NC

 

http://www.goldenne edleonline. com/index. php?page= categories & category=

14 & vendor= & product= 5554 & pg=

 

 

 

Asheville Center For

 

70 Woodfin Place, Suite West Wing Two

 

Asheville, NC 28801 828.258.2777

 

kbartlett@Acupunctu reAsheville. com

 

www.AcupunctureAshe ville.com

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Seems sweaty and dirty should not be a reason or not reason for swabbing....that

is like saying they don't look like they have an STD....That said I swab because

it makes the patient feel better and should I ever be taken to court I want to

be able to say I follow basic protocals...don't do it because I think it helps

with anything medical

 

Be well,

Bob

Robert Linde, AP, RH

Professional Herbalists Training Program

Acupuncture & Herbal Therapies

901 Central Ave

St. Petersburg, FL 33705

www.acuherbals.com

727-551-0857

 

--- On Thu, 3/25/10, wrote:

 

 

 

Re: Point swabbing as a public relations exercise

Chinese Medicine

Thursday, March 25, 2010, 5:37 PM

 

 

 

 

 

 

this is an interesting point in the point swabbing. for many years i didn't

do this and never had an incident. a few years ago and acu student came to

observe at my clinic and i realized i needed to work by the book for a

student observer. i started swabbing at that time and continued the

practice as i felt i needed to be consistent with all my patients at all

time. i've kept up the practice as legally we have to, but i've never

really felt it was necessary, and really just wastes time, ohol and cotton

balls.

 

wondering how others feel about it? is there any value for someone who is

not visibly dirty or sweaty?

 

kath

 

On Thu, Mar 25, 2010 at 5:20 PM, < (AT) tinet (DOT) ie> wrote:

 

>

>

> Hi Hugo, & All,

>

> > Hi Phil, I don't recommend the specificity of the cotton swab comment.

> > If someone practices clean needle technique, then publicise that,

> > but it may even be taken as irresponsibility or ignorance by some

> > to imply that all it takes is a cotton swab. The creation of a sterile

> > field followed by the correct swabbing technique is kind of a minimum.

> > Cotton swabbing for the most part just moves flora around, anyway.

> > Certainly the one-use needle policy is important since all outbreaks

> > have been caused by re-use of needles. Hugo

>

> Yes, the use of sterile single-use needles [discarded after use] is the

> most important step in

> preventing cross-infection.

>

> I know that swabbing the point with an alcohol wipe cannot sterilise the

> skin, not to mention

> kill bacteria in the deeper layers (hair follicles / sweat / sebum glands,

> etc).

>

> I also know that the vast majority of my human and veterinary acupuncture

> colleasgues use

> no site swabbing, yet have very very few problems of local (point)

> infection / inflammation

> afterwards.

>

> HOWEVER, point swabbing may have public relations value, especially with

> clients who fear

> infection.

>

> Best regards,

>

>

>

>

>

 

--

 

Oriental Medicine

Experienced, Dedicated, Effective

 

Abstain from all that is evil.

Perform all that is good.

Purify your thoughts.

This is the teaching of the Buddhas.

 

Follow Your Bliss!

Joseph Campbel

 

Kath's Blog about , Healthy Living & Spirituality:

http://acukath. blogspot. com/

 

Flying Dragon Liniment: Effective pain relief for muscles & joints

Formulated by Kath Bartlett, Traditional Chinese Herbalist

Available at Asheville Center for :

www.FlyingDragonLin iment.com

 

Greenlife Grocery - Asheville, NC

 

Amazon.com

http://www.amazon. com/Flying- Dragon-Liniment- Eco-Friendly- Wild-Crafted/

dp/B001OC1AZ2/ ref=sr_1_ 1?ie=UTF8 & s=hpc & qid= 1254968032 & sr=8-1

 

and from the following supply companies:

Kamwo Herbal Pharmacy: NY - Chinatown

https://www. kamwo.com/ shop/product. php?productid= 17442 & cat= 0 & page=1

 

Golden Needle Acupuncture, Herbal & Medical Supply - Candler, NC

http://www.goldenne edleonline. com/index. php?page= categories & category=

14 & vendor= & product= 5554 & pg=

 

Asheville Center For

70 Woodfin Place, Suite West Wing Two

Asheville, NC 28801 828.258.2777

kbartlett@Acupunctu reAsheville. com

www.AcupunctureAshe ville.com

 

 

[Guest guest]

There are some anti-microbial oils in sweat, which alcohol dissolves, better to

use iodine or nothing, or maybe that stuff tattooists use that kills everything,

I think they mention it in one paragraph in the clean needle technique manual,

the name escapes me...

[Guest guest]

I've found it seems to wipe the sweat off the area (I use a 50/50

ethyl/distilled water combo) and seems to make it less likely to itch.

 

David Molony

--

Anyone can sympathize with the sufferings of a friend, but it requires

a very fine nature to sympathize with a friend's success.

Oscar Wilde

On Mar 25, 2010, at 5:54:22 PM, " Daniel Schulman "

<daniel.schulman wrote:

 

 

> I also know that the vast majority of my human and veterinary

> acupuncture

 

> colleasgues use

 

> no site swabbing, yet have very very few problems of local (point)

 

> infection / inflammation

 

> afterwards.

 

>

 

> HOWEVER, point swabbing may have public relations value, especially

> with

 

> clients who fear

 

> infection.

 

>

 

> Best regards,

 

>