Guest guest Posted April 3, 2010 Report Share Posted April 3, 2010 Hi Everyone, This is a question for folks practicing in the U.S. A company called National Fertility Link is expanding into Maryland and has been calling some of us to join their network. They say they have 70 acupuncturists working with them around the country...I'm hoping some are on this listserv? The deal is you pay a fee up front ($2100) for 6 months membership -- they guarantee you 5 referrals per month. These people are supposedly pre-screened, including their ability to pay for treatment, and have completed a lengthy questionnaire and a phone interview before they are sent to you for acupuncture. If you do not get the 5 referrals they promise, they extend your membership one month for each month they don't come through. I have only been in practice for 4 years. Is this a scam? Is it a worthwhile idea? I would love some input from those of you who have been around a while, and like I said, if anyone is already participating with them, I would love to hear about your experience with them. Thanks so much, Elizabeth Fellows Hyattsville, Maryland Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 4, 2010 Report Share Posted April 4, 2010 I got a call from them last week and said no thanks. Funny thing is the guy says to me in order to try to convince me to buy " Have you googled our company? " So after I said no thanks I went and googled them anyway just to see - there was enough negative reviews and information online about them that I laughed that this guy had told me to google the company. Anyway, I would stay far away. There are much better ways to spend that money. Adam Chinese Medicine , " lilibethmaryland " <Elizabeth wrote: > > Hi Everyone, > This is a question for folks practicing in the U.S. A company called National Fertility Link is expanding into Maryland and has been calling some of us to join their network. > They say they have 70 acupuncturists working with them around the country...I'm hoping some are on this listserv? > The deal is you pay a fee up front ($2100) for 6 months membership -- they guarantee you 5 referrals per month. These people are supposedly pre-screened, including their ability to pay for treatment, and have completed a lengthy questionnaire and a phone interview before they are sent to you for acupuncture. > If you do not get the 5 referrals they promise, they extend your membership one month for each month they don't come through. > I have only been in practice for 4 years. Is this a scam? Is it a worthwhile idea? I would love some input from those of you who have been around a while, and like I said, if anyone is already participating with them, I would love to hear about your experience with them. > Thanks so much, > Elizabeth Fellows > Hyattsville, Maryland > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 4, 2010 Report Share Posted April 4, 2010 It sounds like a scam. Anyone that promises to get you clients is surely a concern. I remember other DC's that participated in similar marketing schemes, that wasted their money. Michael W. Bowser, DC, LAcChinese Medicine Elizabeth Sat, 3 Apr 2010 13:57:37 +0000 National Fertility Link? Hi Everyone, This is a question for folks practicing in the U.S. A company called National Fertility Link is expanding into Maryland and has been calling some of us to join their network. They say they have 70 acupuncturists working with them around the country...I'm hoping some are on this listserv? The deal is you pay a fee up front ($2100) for 6 months membership -- they guarantee you 5 referrals per month. These people are supposedly pre-screened, including their ability to pay for treatment, and have completed a lengthy questionnaire and a phone interview before they are sent to you for acupuncture. If you do not get the 5 referrals they promise, they extend your membership one month for each month they don't come through. I have only been in practice for 4 years. Is this a scam? Is it a worthwhile idea? I would love some input from those of you who have been around a while, and like I said, if anyone is already participating with them, I would love to hear about your experience with them. Thanks so much, Elizabeth Fellows Hyattsville, Maryland _______________ Hotmail has tools for the New Busy. Search, chat and e-mail from your inbox. http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?ocid=PID28326::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en\ -US:WM_HMP:042010_1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 4, 2010 Report Share Posted April 4, 2010 You can google them and there is a forum there, that says good and bad about them. I wonder about the praise comments like someone on here said. I am very skeptical about groups that need a lot of up front money. I think it is better to get key words in your website that deal with fertility and get a good person to do the SEO. That would be money better spent. Also you could visit gynecologists in your area, with research information on how acupuncture helps with fertility and IVF clients. This would be a better use of time and money in my opinion. Anne Anne C. Crowley, L.Ac., Dipl.Ac. www.LaPlataAcupuncture.com - " lilibethmaryland " <Elizabeth " Traditional " <Chinese Medicine > Saturday, April 3, 2010 9:57:37 AM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern  National Fertility Link?  Hi Everyone, This is a question for folks practicing in the U.S. A company called National Fertility Link is expanding into Maryland and has been calling some of us to join their network. They say they have 70 acupuncturists working with them around the country...I'm hoping some are on this listserv? The deal is you pay a fee up front ($2100) for 6 months membership -- they guarantee you 5 referrals per month. These people are supposedly pre-screened, including their ability to pay for treatment, and have completed a lengthy questionnaire and a phone interview before they are sent to you for acupuncture. If you do not get the 5 referrals they promise, they extend your membership one month for each month they don't come through. I have only been in practice for 4 years. Is this a scam? Is it a worthwhile idea? I would love some input from those of you who have been around a while, and like I said, if anyone is already participating with them, I would love to hear about your experience with them. Thanks so much, Elizabeth Fellows Hyattsville, Maryland Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 5, 2010 Report Share Posted April 5, 2010 They called me last year. I looked into it. I asked for a reference. They gave me the name of a practitioner in FL. When we finally spoke (several calls, no front office staff, outgoing message did not announce who he was...this was the reference), he did not have good things to say about the company. He said they did not send good referral sources. Most patients did not show up for appointments, or came once and not again. IMVHO, if it sounds too good to be true, it probably is. And I think if they get us to google them, it will increase their positioning in google. So it looks like they are good. I agree with making good solid local relationships with REs. Meredith Young Chinese Medicine , Anne Crowley <anne.crowley wrote: > > > > You can google them and there is a forum there, that says good and bad about them. I wonder about the praise comments like someone on here said. > > > > I am very skeptical about groups that need a lot of up front money. > > > > I think it is better to get key words in your website that deal with fertility and get a good person to do the SEO. That would be money better spent. > > > > Also you could visit gynecologists in your area, with research information on how acupuncture helps with fertility and IVF clients. > > > > This would be a better use of time and money in my opinion. > > > > Anne > > Anne C. Crowley, L.Ac., Dipl.Ac. > www.LaPlataAcupuncture.com > > - > " lilibethmaryland " <Elizabeth > " Traditional " <Chinese Medicine > > Saturday, April 3, 2010 9:57:37 AM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern >  National Fertility Link? > >  > > > > > Hi Everyone, > This is a question for folks practicing in the U.S. A company called National Fertility Link is expanding into Maryland and has been calling some of us to join their network. > They say they have 70 acupuncturists working with them around the country...I'm hoping some are on this listserv? > The deal is you pay a fee up front ($2100) for 6 months membership -- they guarantee you 5 referrals per month. These people are supposedly pre-screened, including their ability to pay for treatment, and have completed a lengthy questionnaire and a phone interview before they are sent to you for acupuncture. > If you do not get the 5 referrals they promise, they extend your membership one month for each month they don't come through. > I have only been in practice for 4 years. Is this a scam? Is it a worthwhile idea? I would love some input from those of you who have been around a while, and like I said, if anyone is already participating with them, I would love to hear about your experience with them. > Thanks so much, > Elizabeth Fellows > Hyattsville, Maryland > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 5, 2010 Report Share Posted April 5, 2010 I meant to add earlier, a point you make here. As you know a patient and a dedicated patient are two different things. I spend some time on the phone with everyone who comes in. I discourage them from booking until they are ready, and if insurance is important, to check that out first. I have almost a 0 percent no show rate on the first appointment, and more dedicated patients overall as a result. Now, I do need someone on my phone, as this is time consuming. However, I want them to talk in a certain way, not just sell them to walk in the door. Anne Anne C. Crowley, L.Ac., Dipl.Ac. www.LaPlataAcupuncture.com - " natdoc48 " <natdoc48 " Traditional " <Chinese Medicine > Sunday, April 4, 2010 10:35:12 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Re:  National Fertility Link?  They called me last year. I looked into it. I asked for a reference. They gave me the name of a practitioner in FL. When we finally spoke (several calls, no front office staff, outgoing message did not announce who he was...this was the reference), he did not have good things to say about the company. He said they did not send good referral sources. Most patients did not show up for appointments, or came once and not again. IMVHO, if it sounds too good to be true, it probably is. And I think if they get us to google them, it will increase their positioning in google. So it looks like they are good. I agree with making good solid local relationships with REs. Meredith Young Chinese Medicine , Anne Crowley <anne.crowley wrote: > > > > You can google them and there is a forum there, that says good and bad about them. I wonder about the praise comments like someone on here said. > > > > I am very skeptical about groups that need a lot of up front money. > > > > I think it is better to get key words in your website that deal with fertility and get a good person to do the SEO. That would be money better spent. > > > > Also you could visit gynecologists in your area, with research information on how acupuncture helps with fertility and IVF clients. > > > > This would be a better use of time and money in my opinion. > > > > Anne > > Anne C. Crowley, L.Ac., Dipl.Ac. > www.LaPlataAcupuncture.com > > - > " lilibethmaryland " <Elizabeth > " Traditional " < Chinese Medicine > > Saturday, April 3, 2010 9:57:37 AM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern >  National Fertility Link? > >  > > > > > Hi Everyone, > This is a question for folks practicing in the U.S. A company called National Fertility Link is expanding into Maryland and has been calling some of us to join their network. > They say they have 70 acupuncturists working with them around the country...I'm hoping some are on this listserv? > The deal is you pay a fee up front ($2100) for 6 months membership -- they guarantee you 5 referrals per month. These people are supposedly pre-screened, including their ability to pay for treatment, and have completed a lengthy questionnaire and a phone interview before they are sent to you for acupuncture. > If you do not get the 5 referrals they promise, they extend your membership one month for each month they don't come through. > I have only been in practice for 4 years. Is this a scam? Is it a worthwhile idea? I would love some input from those of you who have been around a while, and like I said, if anyone is already participating with them, I would love to hear about your experience with them. > Thanks so much, > Elizabeth Fellows > Hyattsville, Maryland > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 8, 2010 Report Share Posted April 8, 2010 hi Elizabeth, We were called Wednesday (in Indiana). I will speak with the guy Thursday and I am going to ask him to give me a way to contact 3 acupuncture clinics who have had success with them (those that have renewed for more of the same). I'll contact one or all with some serious questions I want answered regarding the refer-ees and their committment to their own goals, but only after I establish that the clinic in question has their sh & t in one sock. If a clinic can't convert those interested into committed patients, sending them more people is not the answer. They came to us with $1400 for 3 months, " 5 referals " per month, with a month free for as many of the three they don't meet their quota. That amounts to a little less than $100 per referal. I know that (on long-term average) we gross (2009 numbers only) ~$1700 per new Client (someone who goes thru initial exam and has their first treatment). Now this means anybody, even if they had only one treatment and we never saw them again. It also includes someone who sticks around for 53 tx. How do I get this number? I simply divide the year's gross by the number of new people (# of 1st treatments). If the referals are sincere in their desire to end their infertility stuggles by natural means, I believe $100 is not all that much. 5 people a month that show-up demanding our help without us having spent any time or other resources to find them and convince them to come in to start the process? An extra $25k worth of business that I only invested $1400 to get? PLUS, I will end-up with access to their primary physician and any fertility clinics they've worked with (this connection will require work, but I'm ok with that). Plus the couple no doubt has friends, usually child-desiring but childless women find others like themselves to share the burden with. Plus they have family members who undoubtedly suffer from a wide array of chronic health problems we will be more than happy to help with. All referals from the initials come without much of a price tag. Now I am not about to lower my own target for number of new people in those months. Just increase my expectations by at least 5. Hey, do you (not just YOU, Elizabeth) know how much you gross per treatment in a year (Gross income/total # of treatments)? Another useful number. Interesting to compare numbers from year to year. Here, 06 was 6% more (per tx) than 05, 07->13%, 08->5%, 09->16%. Compare with growth in gross: 06->86%, 07->27%, 08->32%, 09->9.7% (tough year!). 2005->2006: Only 6% more per treatment but 86% revenue increase? Sure! Alot more treatments! And number of New each year was almost exactly the same (1 less! in 06). You know what that means, right? Statistically yours, Mark Z Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 8, 2010 Report Share Posted April 8, 2010 Ok, Mark. My head is getting lost in the statistics here. And, I do think it is great that you do it. I do track number of new, follow ups, and revenue per patient. I do include herbs in that number. I look at treatment revenue on a graph, and herb revenue on a graph. I used to do these things for a living and have gotten so far away from it. My bookkeeper and I were playing with the Microsoft Money Graphs. Yes it is very motivating and also helpful in making planning decisions. I run a much smaller operation - mostly by design. I don't want to increase my own patient load - want to keep it steady, and increase it for new acupuncturists coming in. Right now, I do all the admin myself. If I could blink an eye and get and good admin person in, a new acupuncturist or two and go out and market, teach, workshops, coaching - myself - I would do it tomorrow. One thing that is very frustrating for me is to have a new patient start and then stop. I want them to be commited from day 1. I don't always get this, but I want most of my clients like this. This type of referral service concerns me that it could be a revolving door. I would much rather do key words on a website, visit gynecologists (where these people go), connect with a RESOLVE group or something like it. Anne Anne C. Crowley, L.Ac., Dipl.Ac. www.LaPlataAcupuncture.com - " zedbowls " <zaranski " Traditional " <Chinese Medicine > Thursday, April 8, 2010 2:26:04 AM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern  Re: National Fertility Link?  hi Elizabeth, We were called Wednesday (in Indiana). I will speak with the guy Thursday and I am going to ask him to give me a way to contact 3 acupuncture clinics who have had success with them (those that have renewed for more of the same). I'll contact one or all with some serious questions I want answered regarding the refer-ees and their committment to their own goals, but only after I establish that the clinic in question has their sh & t in one sock. If a clinic can't convert those interested into committed patients, sending them more people is not the answer. They came to us with $1400 for 3 months, " 5 referals " per month, with a month free for as many of the three they don't meet their quota. That amounts to a little less than $100 per referal. I know that (on long-term average) we gross (2009 numbers only) ~$1700 per new Client (someone who goes thru initial exam and has their first treatment). Now this means anybody, even if they had only one treatment and we never saw them again. It also includes someone who sticks around for 53 tx. How do I get this number? I simply divide the year's gross by the number of new people (# of 1st treatments). If the referals are sincere in their desire to end their infertility stuggles by natural means, I believe $100 is not all that much. 5 people a month that show-up demanding our help without us having spent any time or other resources to find them and convince them to come in to start the process? An extra $25k worth of business that I only invested $1400 to get? PLUS, I will end-up with access to their primary physician and any fertility clinics they've worked with (this connection will require work, but I'm ok with that). Plus the couple no doubt has friends, usually child-desiring but childless women find others like themselves to share the burden with. Plus they have family members who undoubtedly suffer from a wide array of chronic health problems we will be more than happy to help with. All referals from the initials come without much of a price tag. Now I am not about to lower my own target for number of new people in those months. Just increase my expectations by at least 5. Hey, do you (not just YOU, Elizabeth) know how much you gross per treatment in a year (Gross income/total # of treatments)? Another useful number. Interesting to compare numbers from year to year. Here, 06 was 6% more (per tx) than 05, 07->13%, 08->5%, 09->16%. Compare with growth in gross: 06->86%, 07->27%, 08->32%, 09->9.7% (tough year!). 2005->2006: Only 6% more per treatment but 86% revenue increase? Sure! Alot more treatments! And number of New each year was almost exactly the same (1 less! in 06). You know what that means, right? Statistically yours, Mark Z Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 9, 2010 Report Share Posted April 9, 2010 Yup! Hanging out a sign that says ONLY COMMITTED PEOPLE ALLOWED might do some good... There is so much that they need to actually reach committment. Those already there are easy gravy. <anne.crowley wrote: > One thing that is very frustrating for me is to have a new patient start and then stop. I want them to be commited from day 1. I don't always get this, but I want most of my clients like this. This type of referral service concerns me that it could be a revolving door. > Anne > If a clinic can't convert those interested into committed patients, sending them more people is not the answer. > Mark Z Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 9, 2010 Report Share Posted April 9, 2010 Bernard Jensen had a carved sign at the front door of his office: " You are looking for a good doctor. I am looking for a good patient. " - Bill Chinese Medicine , " zedbowls " <zaranski wrote: > > Yup! Hanging out a sign that says ONLY COMMITTED PEOPLE ALLOWED might do some good... > There is so much that they need to actually reach committment. Those already there are easy gravy. > > > > <anne.crowley@> wrote: > > One thing that is very frustrating for me is to have a new patient start and then stop. I want them to be commited from day 1. I don't always get this, but I want most of my clients like this. This type of referral service concerns me that it could be a revolving door. > > Anne > > > If a clinic can't convert those interested into committed patients, sending them more people is not the answer. > > Mark Z > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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