Tonification with exterior patterns

[Guest guest]

Hi all,

 

This is such an interesting and important discussion!

 

For me, when thinking about Huang Qi in relation to using it as a key herb for

someone, I have found that the teachings of Dr. Huang Huang have been very

helpful in determining when to use it. This is true in general but is also true

when I am treating someone with an EPI. I agree with Hugo mostly when he says

that Huang Qi " strengthens the Wei Qi " though I tend to articulate it more as

" firming the exterior " . If we take it a step further and think about what is

going on when a patient needs the particular Qi strengthening effect of Huang Qi

a clear picture starts to form. When the exterior is not firm, it is soft and

droopy. Soft and droopy, sometimes called " lax " , is the surface characteristic

that indicates Huang Qi. Mostly this means that the surface leaks and that

water accumulates on the surface without really being evaporated out. The pores

sag and so they don't really open and they don't really close. We can diagnose

this by feeling the body. The flesh is lax, moist, saggy. This is the kind of

person who would benefit from the use of Huang Qi when they are unable to

release an exterior pathology.

 

Also, when we think of the presentation that indicates Gui Zhi Tang, there is

also sweating and Bai Shao is used to restrain and nourish while Gui Zhi warms,

tonifies and releases. Together the firm the exterior while resolving the

surface. It is really a classic example of how to tonify when the surface needs

releasing. However, the Gui Zhi presentation is different than the Huang Qi

presentation in that the muscles are not lax in the Gui Zhi presentation, rather

they are tight and tense. Gui Zhi Tang uses Bai Shao and Gan Cao which soften

and nourish - so the muscles are tense. Huang Qi tightens things up. Very

different!

 

So, I guess my point is that we can think about the function of the herb but it

is really helpful to understand the type of person who is suffering from an EPI.

For me, the teachings of Dr. Huang Huang have been invaluable in relation to

this.

 

Best

 

Sharon

 

 

 

 

Sharon Weizenbaum

86 Henry Street

Amherst, MA 01002

www.whitepinehealingarts.com

Topics in Blog

sweiz

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Sharon,

your description of how Huang Huang uses Huang qi is useful....

does this correlate also with the SNBCJ action of Huang qi to generate

flesh? (firming a lax, soft and droopy exterior)

 

When in the history of Chinese herbalism/formulations did Huang qi go

through the transformation of being seen as mainly an herb that " treats

welling and flat abscesses and enduring festering sores by expelling pus and

relieving pain, great wind lai disease, the five (kinds of) hemorrhoids, and

mouse fistulas. It supplements vacuity and (is good for) hundreds of

diseases in children... " (SNBCJ) to the way that we primarily see it used

today, to tonify SP/Lung Qi. ?

 

K

 

 

 

 

 

On Fri, Apr 9, 2010 at 4:36 AM, sharon weizenbaum <sweiz wrote:

 

>

>

> Hi all,

>

> This is such an interesting and important discussion!

>

> For me, when thinking about Huang Qi in relation to using it as a key herb

> for someone, I have found that the teachings of Dr. Huang Huang have been

> very helpful in determining when to use it. This is true in general but is

> also true when I am treating someone with an EPI. I agree with Hugo mostly

> when he says that Huang Qi " strengthens the Wei Qi " though I tend to

> articulate it more as " firming the exterior " . If we take it a step further

> and think about what is going on when a patient needs the particular Qi

> strengthening effect of Huang Qi a clear picture starts to form. When the

> exterior is not firm, it is soft and droopy. Soft and droopy, sometimes

> called " lax " , is the surface characteristic that indicates Huang Qi. Mostly

> this means that the surface leaks and that water accumulates on the surface

> without really being evaporated out. The pores sag and so they don't really

> open and they don't really close. We can diagnose this by feeling the body.

> The flesh is lax, moist, saggy. This is the kind of person who would benefit

> from the use of Huang Qi when they are unable to release an exterior

> pathology.

>

> Also, when we think of the presentation that indicates Gui Zhi Tang, there

> is also sweating and Bai Shao is used to restrain and nourish while Gui Zhi

> warms, tonifies and releases. Together the firm the exterior while resolving

> the surface. It is really a classic example of how to tonify when the

> surface needs releasing. However, the Gui Zhi presentation is different than

> the Huang Qi presentation in that the muscles are not lax in the Gui Zhi

> presentation, rather they are tight and tense. Gui Zhi Tang uses Bai Shao

> and Gan Cao which soften and nourish - so the muscles are tense. Huang Qi

> tightens things up. Very different!

>

> So, I guess my point is that we can think about the function of the herb

> but it is really helpful to understand the type of person who is suffering

> from an EPI. For me, the teachings of Dr. Huang Huang have been invaluable

> in relation to this.

>

> Best

>

> Sharon

>

> Sharon Weizenbaum

> 86 Henry Street

> Amherst, MA 01002

> www.whitepinehealingarts.com

> Topics in Blog

> sweiz <sweiz%40rcn.com>

>

>

[Guest guest]

K wrote: When in the history of Chinese herbalism/formulations did Huang qi go

through the transformation of being seen as mainly an herb that " treats

welling and flat abscesses and enduring festering sores by expelling pus and

relieving pain, great wind lai disease, the five (kinds of) hemorrhoids, and

mouse fistulas. It supplements vacuity and (is good for) hundreds of

diseases in children... " (SNBCJ) to the way that we primarily see it used

today, to tonify SP/Lung Qi. ?

 

 

Hi K,

 

I don't know when but I can tell you how I think of it. The function of healing

abscesses is not separate from Huang Qi's funciton of firming the exterior.

Abscesses cannot heal when the flesh is too lax. I use the image of a balloon

that is not filled up and is too soft. If you prick it with a pin, it will not

pop easily. When it is filled up and firm, a prick will pop it. So sores such

as abscesses or acne cannot come to a head and pop when the flesh is weak. So,

there is a lack of healing and they become chronic. Really what this is saying

is that Huang Qi can help heal ulcers and sores and expel pus and treat

hemorrhoids for Huang Qi type people. It does this by firming the exterior.

 

As a side note, I use Huang Qi for fertility patients who have this kind of

Huang Qi flesh (soft, spongey, saggy, damp) These patients can have a hard time

getting pregnant because their eggs don't pop out of the ovary very well. In

the same way as it helps abscesses come to a head, it helps the egg pop out of

the ovary by firming up the skin of the ovary. I first learned this from Dr.

Zhu Shurong (now in Santa Monica) in 1989. After studying with her I used the

method for the first time on a 42 year old patient who had never gotten

pregnant. Her son, now at Brown University, is my daughter's best friend! But,

again, Huang Qi is only effective for this on Huang Qi type patients.....

 

 

Sharon Weizenbaum

86 Henry Street

Amherst, MA 01002

www.whitepinehealingarts.com

Topics in Blog

sweiz

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Nice analogy Sharon !

 

-Jason

 

Sent from my iPhone

 

On Apr 10, 2010, at 5:32 AM, sharon weizenbaum <sweiz wrote:

 

> K wrote: When in the history of Chinese herbalism/formulations did

> Huang qi go

> through the transformation of being seen as mainly an herb that

> " treats

> welling and flat abscesses and enduring festering sores by expelling

> pus and

> relieving pain, great wind lai disease, the five (kinds of)

> hemorrhoids, and

> mouse fistulas. It supplements vacuity and (is good for) hundreds of

> diseases in children... " (SNBCJ) to the way that we primarily see it

> used

> today, to tonify SP/Lung Qi. ?

>

> Hi K,

>

> I don't know when but I can tell you how I think of it. The function

> of healing abscesses is not separate from Huang Qi's funciton of

> firming the exterior. Abscesses cannot heal when the flesh is too

> lax. I use the image of a balloon that is not filled up and is too

> soft. If you prick it with a pin, it will not pop easily. When it is

> filled up and firm, a prick will pop it. So sores such as abscesses

> or acne cannot come to a head and pop when the flesh is weak. So,

> there is a lack of healing and they become chronic. Really what this

> is saying is that Huang Qi can help heal ulcers and sores and expel

> pus and treat hemorrhoids for Huang Qi type people. It does this by

> firming the exterior.

>

> As a side note, I use Huang Qi for fertility patients who have this

> kind of Huang Qi flesh (soft, spongey, saggy, damp) These patients

> can have a hard time getting pregnant because their eggs don't pop

> out of the ovary very well. In the same way as it helps abscesses

> come to a head, it helps the egg pop out of the ovary by firming up

> the skin of the ovary. I first learned this from Dr. Zhu Shurong

> (now in Santa Monica) in 1989. After studying with her I used the

> method for the first time on a 42 year old patient who had never

> gotten pregnant. Her son, now at Brown University, is my daughter's

> best friend! But, again, Huang Qi is only effective for this on

> Huang Qi type patients.....

>

> Sharon Weizenbaum

> 86 Henry Street

> Amherst, MA 01002

> www.whitepinehealingarts.com

> Topics in Blog

> sweiz

>

>

[Guest guest]

Regarding the symptoms below... what about the classical patent formula Xian

Fang Huo Ming?

 

 

Just a thought, since it fits well and commonly used for those signs.

 

Best regards;

 

Robin Valentine

 

Chinese Medicine , sharon weizenbaum

<sweiz wrote:

>

> K wrote: When in the history of Chinese herbalism/formulations did Huang qi go

> through the transformation of being seen as mainly an herb that " treats

> welling and flat abscesses and enduring festering sores by expelling pus and

> relieving pain, great wind lai disease, the five (kinds of) hemorrhoids, and

> mouse fistulas. It supplements vacuity and (is good for) hundreds of

> diseases in children... " (SNBCJ) to the way that we primarily see it used

> today, to tonify SP/Lung Qi. ?

>

>

> Hi K,

>

> I don't know when but I can tell you how I think of it. The function of

healing abscesses is not separate from Huang Qi's funciton of firming the

exterior. Abscesses cannot heal when the flesh is too lax. I use the image of

a balloon that is not filled up and is too soft. If you prick it with a pin, it

will not pop easily. When it is filled up and firm, a prick will pop it. So

sores such as abscesses or acne cannot come to a head and pop when the flesh is

weak. So, there is a lack of healing and they become chronic. Really what this

is saying is that Huang Qi can help heal ulcers and sores and expel pus and

treat hemorrhoids for Huang Qi type people. It does this by firming the

exterior.

>

> As a side note, I use Huang Qi for fertility patients who have this kind of

Huang Qi flesh (soft, spongey, saggy, damp) These patients can have a hard time

getting pregnant because their eggs don't pop out of the ovary very well. In

the same way as it helps abscesses come to a head, it helps the egg pop out of

the ovary by firming up the skin of the ovary. I first learned this from Dr.

Zhu Shurong (now in Santa Monica) in 1989. After studying with her I used the

method for the first time on a 42 year old patient who had never gotten

pregnant. Her son, now at Brown University, is my daughter's best friend! But,

again, Huang Qi is only effective for this on Huang Qi type patients.....

>

>

> Sharon Weizenbaum

> 86 Henry Street

> Amherst, MA 01002

> www.whitepinehealingarts.com

> Topics in Blog

> sweiz

>

>

 

[Guest guest]

Hi Sharon; I enjoyed reading your post. I, myself, was taking an energetic tack

and, if I recall, relating it to some of my immediate energetic experiences with

qi gong. But Huang Qi's " lifting and firming " ability is very much in line with

much of the qi gong practice which leads to the Golden Body effects. I think you

are right on the money in your description of abscesses and why Huang Qi treats

them well, as well as differentiating people based on the status of their flesh.

 

Thanks, great to read,

Hugo

 

 

________________________________

Hugo Ramiro

http://middlemedicine.wordpress.com

http://www.middlemedicine.org

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Dear Sharon,

 

I have been following this discussion with interest. Tell me, according

to Dr. Huang Huang, does that mean that it is contraindicated to include

Huang Qi with formulas that include Bai Shao and Gan Cao, and that with

a patient with muscular hypertonicity should never be given Huang Qi,

even though they may also be Qi vacuous? Which brings me to yet another

question. How does he describe the general action of herbs such as

Ren Shen, Hong Shen, Xi Yang Shen, Dang Shen and Tai Zi Shen as opposed

to Huang Qi.

 

Respectfully,

 

 

 

Yehuda

 

 

Chinese Medicine , sharon weizenbaum

<sweiz wrote:

>

> Hi all,

>

> This is such an interesting and important discussion!

>

> For me, when thinking about Huang Qi in relation to using it as a key

herb for someone, I have found that the teachings of Dr. Huang Huang

have been very helpful in determining when to use it. This is true in

general but is also true when I am treating someone with an EPI. I agree

with Hugo mostly when he says that Huang Qi " strengthens the Wei Qi "

though I tend to articulate it more as " firming the exterior " . If we

take it a step further and think about what is going on when a patient

needs the particular Qi strengthening effect of Huang Qi a clear picture

starts to form. When the exterior is not firm, it is soft and droopy.

Soft and droopy, sometimes called " lax " , is the surface characteristic

that indicates Huang Qi. Mostly this means that the surface leaks and

that water accumulates on the surface without really being evaporated

out. The pores sag and so they don't really open and they don't really

close. We can diagnose this by feeling the body. The flesh is lax,

moist, saggy. This is the kind of person who would benefit from the use

of Huang Qi when they are unable to release an exterior pathology.

>

> Also, when we think of the presentation that indicates Gui Zhi Tang,

there is also sweating and Bai Shao is used to restrain and nourish

while Gui Zhi warms, tonifies and releases. Together the firm the

exterior while resolving the surface. It is really a classic example of

how to tonify when the surface needs releasing. However, the Gui Zhi

presentation is different than the Huang Qi presentation in that the

muscles are not lax in the Gui Zhi presentation, rather they are tight

and tense. Gui Zhi Tang uses Bai Shao and Gan Cao which soften and

nourish - so the muscles are tense. Huang Qi tightens things up. Very

different!

>

> So, I guess my point is that we can think about the function of the

herb but it is really helpful to understand the type of person who is

suffering from an EPI. For me, the teachings of Dr. Huang Huang have

been invaluable in relation to this.

>

> Best

>

> Sharon

>

>

>

>

> Sharon Weizenbaum

> 86 Henry Street

> Amherst, MA 01002

> www.whitepinehealingarts.com

> Topics in Blog

> sweiz

>

>

 

[Guest guest]

Yehuda Writes: I have been following this discussion with interest. Tell me,

according

to Dr. Huang Huang, does that mean that it is contraindicated to include

Huang Qi with formulas that include Bai Shao and Gan Cao, and that with

a patient with muscular hypertonicity should never be given Huang Qi,

even though they may also be Qi vacuous? Which brings me to yet another

question. How does he describe the general action of herbs such as

Ren Shen, Hong Shen, Xi Yang Shen, Dang Shen and Tai Zi Shen as opposed

to Huang Qi.

 

Sharon responds: Hi Yehuda, As for your first question, the first thing I'd

like to write is that, if you can ever study directly with Dr. Huang Huang, that

would be invaluable. His work is so grounding and sensible. It helps to

organize both diagnosis, herbs and formulas. When I got out of school I thought

that Spleen Qi deficiency was just one thing - Spleen Qi deficiency. It is so

helpful to be able to differentiate those who are skinny and dry (more Ren Shen,

Xi Yang Shen, Gan Cao types) from those with soft lax moist flesh. Within the

soft moist flesh group - some have strong appetites (more Huang Qi types) some

don't (more Bai Zhu/Fu Ling types). Generally, the more translucent and sweet

herbs are for skinny dry people. Huang Qi types can be skinny but their flesh

is droopy none-the-less.

 

Of course most of the formulas we learn combine these flavors. This is because

these presentations are interconnected. It's not hard to imagine a patient with

droopy skin and tight muscles. We can also adjust dosages to emphasize

qualities or herbs.

 

The class Dr. Huang Huang is teaching in July is technically on support and

treatment of cancer patients however the principles of these teachings can be

broadly applied for both chronic and acute presentations. It will be streamed

live so people all over can participate...

 

Here is the link if you are interested.

 

http://www.whitepinehealingarts.com/seminars/huanghuang/huanghuangjuly.htm

 

 

Sharon

 

 

 

 

Sharon Weizenbaum

86 Henry Street

Amherst, MA 01002

www.whitepinehealingarts.com

Topics in Blog

sweiz

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Sharon,

Thanks for organizing this...

 

Is the price the same for the live stream as the live lecture?

Great subject.... there aren't enough seminars about using formulas in

cancer treatment.

 

K

 

 

 

On Thu, Apr 15, 2010 at 7:12 AM, sharon weizenbaum <sweiz wrote:

 

>

>

>

>

> Yehuda Writes: I have been following this discussion with interest. Tell

> me, according

> to Dr. Huang Huang, does that mean that it is contraindicated to include

> Huang Qi with formulas that include Bai Shao and Gan Cao, and that with

> a patient with muscular hypertonicity should never be given Huang Qi,

> even though they may also be Qi vacuous? Which brings me to yet another

> question. How does he describe the general action of herbs such as

> Ren Shen, Hong Shen, Xi Yang Shen, Dang Shen and Tai Zi Shen as opposed

> to Huang Qi.

>

> Sharon responds: Hi Yehuda, As for your first question, the first thing I'd

> like to write is that, if you can ever study directly with Dr. Huang Huang,

> that would be invaluable. His work is so grounding and sensible. It helps to

> organize both diagnosis, herbs and formulas. When I got out of school I

> thought that Spleen Qi deficiency was just one thing - Spleen Qi deficiency.

> It is so helpful to be able to differentiate those who are skinny and dry

> (more Ren Shen, Xi Yang Shen, Gan Cao types) from those with soft lax moist

> flesh. Within the soft moist flesh group - some have strong appetites (more

> Huang Qi types) some don't (more Bai Zhu/Fu Ling types). Generally, the more

> translucent and sweet herbs are for skinny dry people. Huang Qi types can be

> skinny but their flesh is droopy none-the-less.

>

> Of course most of the formulas we learn combine these flavors. This is

> because these presentations are interconnected. It's not hard to imagine a

> patient with droopy skin and tight muscles. We can also adjust dosages to

> emphasize qualities or herbs.

>

> The class Dr. Huang Huang is teaching in July is technically on support and

> treatment of cancer patients however the principles of these teachings can

> be broadly applied for both chronic and acute presentations. It will be

> streamed live so people all over can participate...

>

> Here is the link if you are interested.

>

> http://www.whitepinehealingarts.com/seminars/huanghuang/huanghuangjuly.htm

>

> Sharon

>

> Sharon Weizenbaum

> 86 Henry Street

> Amherst, MA 01002

> www.whitepinehealingarts.com

> Topics in Blog

> sweiz <sweiz%40rcn.com>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Sharon,

 

Let me restate the questions for you:

 

1.   According to what you present in the name of Dr. Huang Huang, does that

mean that  Huang Qi would  be contraindicated  in the presence of  Bai

Shao and Gan Cao, and that a patient with muscular hypertonicity should never be

given Huang Qi even though they may also be Qi vacuous?

 

2.  You mention that he describes  herbs such as Ren Shen, Xi Yang Shen,

and Gan Cao, as treating constitutional types who are skinny and dry.  How

does he differentiate the usage of  Hong Shen, Ren Shen,  Dang Shen, Xi

Yang Shen and Tai Zi Shen other then by temperature?  

 

Also tell me more about your forum and its mission.

  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

________________________________

sharon weizenbaum <sweiz

 

Thu, April 15, 2010 3:26:42 PM

Re: Re: Tonification with exterior patterns

 

Hi Yehuda,

 

I'm not sure what questions you mean?  I am happy to answer questions through

the forum.  We have our own forum too that you might want to join

 

http://health.whitepineherbalprogram/

 

Best Sharon

 

 

 

On Apr 15, 2010, at 3:20 PM, yehuda frischman wrote:

 

Hi Sharon,

>

>

>I am writing to privately for obvious reasons.  I would LOVE to attend his

seminar, but because I am now in my final year of the DAOM, have a sick wife,

 have little income (because of the time involved in the DAOM, and because I

also have to teach in the master's program to help pay for the DAOM), I can't

even consider paying for it even streamed on line, until I finish the DAOM.  I

absolutely understand that it's unfair to me as well as to you for me to pick

your brain for theories and strategies when ideally, I should be studying with

Dr. Huang Huang directly, but what can I do.  I would really appreciate it if

briefly you could answer my questions more directly.  Wishing you much success,

blessing and growth. 

>

>

>Respectfully,

> 

>

>

>

> 

> 

>

>

>

>

>

________________________________

 sharon weizenbaum <sweiz

>To: Chinese Medicine

>Sent: Thu, April 15, 2010 7:12:05 AM

>Subject: Re: Tonification with exterior patterns

>

>

>

>

>Yehuda Writes: I have been following this discussion with interest. Tell me,

according

>to Dr. Huang Huang, does that mean that it is contraindicated to include

>Huang Qi with formulas that include Bai Shao and Gan Cao, and that with

>a patient with muscular hypertonicity should never be given Huang Qi,

>even though they may also be Qi vacuous? Which brings me to yet another

>question. How does he describe the general action of herbs such as 

>Ren Shen, Hong Shen, Xi Yang Shen, Dang Shen and Tai Zi Shen as opposed

>to Huang Qi.

>

>Sharon responds: Hi Yehuda, As for your first question, the first thing I'd

like to write is that, if you can ever study directly with Dr. Huang Huang, that

would be invaluable. His work is so grounding and sensible. It helps to organize

both diagnosis, herbs and formulas. When I got out of school I thought that

Spleen Qi deficiency was just one thing - Spleen Qi deficiency. It is so helpful

to be able to differentiate those who are skinny and dry (more Ren Shen, Xi Yang

Shen, Gan Cao types) from those with soft lax moist flesh. Within the soft moist

flesh group - some have strong appetites (more Huang Qi types) some don't (more

Bai Zhu/Fu Ling types). Generally, the more translucent and sweet herbs are for

skinny dry people. Huang Qi types can be skinny but their flesh is droopy

none-the-less. 

>

>Of course most of the formulas we learn combine these flavors. This is because

these presentations are interconnected. It's not hard to imagine a patient with

droopy skin and tight muscles. We can also adjust dosages to emphasize qualities

or herbs. 

>

>The class Dr. Huang Huang is teaching in July is technically on support and

treatment of cancer patients however the principles of these teachings can be

broadly applied for both chronic and acute presentations. It will be streamed

live so people all over can participate. ..

>

>Here is the link if you are interested.

>

>http://www.whitepin ehealingarts. com/seminars/ huanghuang/ huanghuangjuly. htm

>

>Sharon

>

>Sharon Weizenbaum

>86 Henry Street

>Amherst, MA 01002

>www.whitepinehealin garts.com

>Topics in Blog

>sweiz

>

>

[Guest guest]

Yehuda says

does that mean that Huang Qi would be contraindicated in the presence of

Bai Shao and Gan Cao, and that a patient with muscular hypertonicity should

never be given Huang Qi even though they may also be Qi vacuous?

 

Joe sez:

Almost impossible that he would

See: Huang Qi Jian Zhong Tang

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Yehudah asks: 1. According to what you present in the name of Dr. Huang Huang,

does that mean that Huang Qi would be contraindicated in the presence of Bai

Shao and Gan Cao, and that a patient with muscular hypertonicity should never be

given Huang Qi even though they may also be Qi vacuous?

 

Sharon: Yikes! I don't means to present " in the name of Dr. Huang Huang " !!

To be clear, I only write what I understand and work with and this has been

influenced by Dr. Huang Huang. Other influences and even misunderstandings

might color how I work and what I express so I would not want to give any

impression that I am speaking for Dr. Huang Huang.

 

That said....There are classic formulas (Huang Qi Gui Zhi Wu Wu Tang, Huang Qi

Jian Zhong Tang etc.) that contain both Huang Qi, Gui Zhi and Bai Shao so, no,

it is not contraindicated to combine these by me or by Dr. Huang Huang. Also,

clinically, a person can have tight muscles and loose skin. But, more

importantly, a person does not necessarily need to have a lax exterior to use

Huang Qi. For me, this would be more of a requirement if the formula is led by

Huang Qi. For example, in a formula like Shi Quan Da Bu Tang, I see Huang Qi

and being used to help blood production in combination with Dang Gui as the main

reason it is used here. The person I would use this for would not necessarily

have a lax exterior. If they did, I would probably use more Huang Qi and

probably use a different formula strategy.

 

Yehuda asks: 2. You mention that he describes herbs such as Ren Shen, Xi Yang

Shen, and Gan Cao, as treating constitutional types who are skinny and dry. How

does he differentiate the usage of Hong Shen, Ren Shen, Dang Shen, Xi Yang

Shen and Tai Zi Shen other then by temperature?

 

Sharon: As for Ren Shen, Xi Yang Shen, Tai Zi Shen and Dang Shen and how they

are differentiated by Huang Huang, I don't know. Gan Cao and Hong Shen are

quite different from these those.

 

I don't want to go into great detail here as to how I see these herbs or what

I've learned from Dr. Huang Huang but I think it may be important to say that,

for any herb, the various functions and characteristics of it are brought out by

how it is combined with other herbs in formula. So, for example, Dr. Huang

Huang teaches that Gan Cao acts in its ability to clear toxic heat for mouth or

other mucous membrane sores (in skinny weak people) when it is used in Gan Cao

Xie Xin Tang. (This is part of what makes it a great formula to use for weak

patients who are getting mouth sores as they undergo chemo or radiation). When

Gan Cao is used with Bai Shao in larger doses, it stops pain from spasms (in

patients with tight musculature) Gan Cao and Jie Geng are combined in lots of

cough formulas and they help prevent lung abscess and sooth sore throats. Of

course we know that Gan Cao in small doses is used to harmonize formulas and

when it is combined with Fu Zi it helps to detoxify the Fu Zi toxin...etc. etc.

 

This is just using the example of Gan Cao. Of course the same is true of Huang

Qi....When it is combined in large doses with Tao Hong Si Wu Tang and Di Long -

numbness. Combined with Fang Ji - water swelling. etc.

 

 

Best

 

Sharon

 

 

 

 

Sharon Weizenbaum

86 Henry Street

Amherst, MA 01002

www.whitepinehealingarts.com

Topics in Blog

sweiz

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

K writes: Sharon,

Thanks for organizing this...

 

Is the price the same for the live stream as the live lecture?

Great subject.... there aren't enough seminars about using formulas in

cancer treatment.

 

 

The class Dr. Huang Huang is teaching in July is technically on support and

> treatment of cancer patients however the principles of these teachings can

> be broadly applied for both chronic and acute presentations. It will be

> streamed live so people all over can participate...

>

> Here is the link if you are interested.

>

> http://www.whitepinehealingarts.com/seminars/huanghuang/huanghuangjuly.htm

>

 

 

Sharon replies: Hi K,

 

Your welcome! Yes, the price is the same but streaming participants will be

able to interact and ask questions as if they are there and everyone will be

receiving all the handouts and CEU's (CA and NCCAOM)

 

You are right about the seminars on cancer being very rare. Yet, in my own

practice I see many people who are seeking support while they undergo allopathic

treatment and a few who are choosing not to undergo allopathic treatment. What

I have learned so far with Huang Huang has been so immediately helpful.

 

Best

 

Sharon

 

 

 

Sharon Weizenbaum

86 Henry Street

Amherst, MA 01002

www.whitepinehealingarts.com

Topics in Blog

sweiz

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Yehudah,

You have written that you use Tai zi shen a lot for your wife's condition in

the past.

Do you see this herb as more warming or cooling and how do you differentiate

its indication

versus Dang shen, Ren shen or Xi yang shen?

 

K

 

 

 

On Fri, Apr 16, 2010 at 3:50 AM, sharon weizenbaum <sweiz wrote:

 

>

>

> Yehudah asks: 1. According to what you present in the name of Dr. Huang

> Huang, does that mean that Huang Qi would be contraindicated in the presence

> of Bai Shao and Gan Cao, and that a patient with muscular hypertonicity

> should never be given Huang Qi even though they may also be Qi vacuous?

>

> Sharon: Yikes! I don't means to present " in the name of Dr. Huang Huang " !!

> To be clear, I only write what I understand and work with and this has been

> influenced by Dr. Huang Huang. Other influences and even misunderstandings

> might color how I work and what I express so I would not want to give any

> impression that I am speaking for Dr. Huang Huang.

>

> That said....There are classic formulas (Huang Qi Gui Zhi Wu Wu Tang, Huang

> Qi Jian Zhong Tang etc.) that contain both Huang Qi, Gui Zhi and Bai Shao

> so, no, it is not contraindicated to combine these by me or by Dr. Huang

> Huang. Also, clinically, a person can have tight muscles and loose skin.

> But, more importantly, a person does not necessarily need to have a lax

> exterior to use Huang Qi. For me, this would be more of a requirement if the

> formula is led by Huang Qi. For example, in a formula like Shi Quan Da Bu

> Tang, I see Huang Qi and being used to help blood production in combination

> with Dang Gui as the main reason it is used here. The person I would use

> this for would not necessarily have a lax exterior. If they did, I would

> probably use more Huang Qi and probably use a different formula strategy.

>

> Yehuda asks: 2. You mention that he describes herbs such as Ren Shen, Xi

> Yang Shen, and Gan Cao, as treating constitutional types who are skinny and

> dry. How does he differentiate the usage of Hong Shen, Ren Shen, Dang Shen,

> Xi Yang Shen and Tai Zi Shen other then by temperature?

>

> Sharon: As for Ren Shen, Xi Yang Shen, Tai Zi Shen and Dang Shen and how

> they are differentiated by Huang Huang, I don't know. Gan Cao and Hong Shen

> are quite different from these those.

>

> I don't want to go into great detail here as to how I see these herbs or

> what I've learned from Dr. Huang Huang but I think it may be important to

> say that, for any herb, the various functions and characteristics of it are

> brought out by how it is combined with other herbs in formula. So, for

> example, Dr. Huang Huang teaches that Gan Cao acts in its ability to clear

> toxic heat for mouth or other mucous membrane sores (in skinny weak people)

> when it is used in Gan Cao Xie Xin Tang. (This is part of what makes it a

> great formula to use for weak patients who are getting mouth sores as they

> undergo chemo or radiation). When Gan Cao is used with Bai Shao in larger

> doses, it stops pain from spasms (in patients with tight musculature) Gan

> Cao and Jie Geng are combined in lots of cough formulas and they help

> prevent lung abscess and sooth sore throats. Of course we know that Gan Cao

> in small doses is used to harmonize formulas and when it is combined with Fu

> Zi it helps to detoxify the Fu Zi toxin...etc. etc.

>

> This is just using the example of Gan Cao. Of course the same is true of

> Huang Qi....When it is combined in large doses with Tao Hong Si Wu Tang and

> Di Long - numbness. Combined with Fang Ji - water swelling. etc.

>

> Best

>

> Sharon

>

> Sharon Weizenbaum

> 86 Henry Street

> Amherst, MA 01002

> www.whitepinehealingarts.com

> Topics in Blog

> sweiz <sweiz%40rcn.com>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Sharon,

yes... there is some debate on if cancer was prevalent in ancient times or

not...

They didn't have GMOs, oil spills in their water supply and chemical laden

cigarettes,

but they did inhale smoke in close quarters (fires in caves etc.) on a daily

basis.

Eating too many carbs vs animal proteins was probably not on their radars.

Tobacco and radiation were products of the New World.

 

Our ancestors a few thousand years ago probably didn't live long enough to

see a lot of the diseases that we talk about today. If they did, cancer

tumors might be something that is talked about more in the Nei jing for

instance.

It does seem that a lot of the Shang han za bing lun is devoted to water

accumulation diseases and phlegm, as well as blood stasis, so it will be

interesting to see what a SHL expert says about this.

 

Toxic heat is not something that I hear very much in SHL circles and a lot

of the cancer formulas we use today contain cold, bitter and even toxic

medicinals (that are not in the SHL), as well as the ones that Zhang Zhong

Jing used to tonify the zheng Qi of the patient, while they're undergoing

chemo etc. So, it will be interesting to see if Huang Huang includes these

non-SHZBL herbs in the discussion or goes about this in a different way.

 

K

 

 

 

On Fri, Apr 16, 2010 at 3:56 AM, sharon weizenbaum <sweiz wrote:

 

>

>

> K writes: Sharon,

> Thanks for organizing this...

>

> Is the price the same for the live stream as the live lecture?

> Great subject.... there aren't enough seminars about using formulas in

> cancer treatment.

>

> The class Dr. Huang Huang is teaching in July is technically on support and

> > treatment of cancer patients however the principles of these teachings

> can

> > be broadly applied for both chronic and acute presentations. It will be

> > streamed live so people all over can participate...

> >

> > Here is the link if you are interested.

> >

> >

> http://www.whitepinehealingarts.com/seminars/huanghuang/huanghuangjuly.htm

> >

>

> Sharon replies: Hi K,

>

> Your welcome! Yes, the price is the same but streaming participants will be

> able to interact and ask questions as if they are there and everyone will be

> receiving all the handouts and CEU's (CA and NCCAOM)

>

> You are right about the seminars on cancer being very rare. Yet, in my own

> practice I see many people who are seeking support while they undergo

> allopathic treatment and a few who are choosing not to undergo allopathic

> treatment. What I have learned so far with Huang Huang has been so

> immediately helpful.

>

>

> Best

>

> Sharon

>

> Sharon Weizenbaum

> 86 Henry Street

> Amherst, MA 01002

> www.whitepinehealingarts.com

> Topics in Blog

> sweiz <sweiz%40rcn.com>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi John and all:

 

---

Our ancestors a few thousand years ago probably didn't live long enough to

see a lot of the diseases that we talk about today. If they did, cancer

tumors might be something that is talked about more in the Nei jing for

instance.

---

 

 

Could you please support speculative statements like these with proof or even

*ANY* type of evidence? Ideas such as the above are products of a blowhard

modern culture which considers itself superior in every way to every one at

every point in history.

It is a boring and completely unsupported viewpoint.

 

On the other hand, there is extensive research which investigates modern

traditional cultures which are representative (based on archaeological and

anthropological evidence) of ancient cultures, and these people live long lives

with low incidence of disease (Campbell 2005, Willcox, Willcox, Suzuki 2001 are

two major and recent popular summaries on this topic). Please do your research

before promoting damaging, disempowering and negatively powerful viewpoints.

 

As an introduction, please purchase the recent popular survey on the topic,

" Manthropology " , available for pre-order through any major bookseller. The

author, a paleoanthropologist, says " ‘We tend to assume that in modern

civilisation everything we do is better than how it has been done before.’’

 

For a visual representation of his opinion, see:

http://www.hachette.com.au/images/imagepage.php

 

From the promotional sites:

" Drawing from archaeology, anthropology and evolutionary psychology, the author

confirms the awful truth: every man in history, back to the dawn of the species,

did everything better, faster, stronger and smarter than any man today. "

 

His comparison of australian aboriginal sprinters running on a wet beach to

" Bolt " Hussein running on a hard track is particularly satisfying to me. The

quotation marks around Hussein's nickname have a particular irony in this

context.

 

Furthermore, how " inhaling wood-smoke on a daily basis " can be compared to the

toxic air we currently experience boggles my mind.

 

The old time Inuit of the arctic lived on average 40 - 60 years and they lived

in the harshest environment on the planet. I'd like to see a modern man survive

*one* comparable season there (just him, his hands, mind and spirit).

 

Please stop repeating these ridiculous modern superstitions - they border on

racist ( " only white society has produced viable physical, mental and spiritual

culture " ). It is time we got our information right in this supposed information

age.

 

Thanks,

Hugo

 

________________________________

Hugo Ramiro

http://middlemedicine.wordpress.com

http://www.middlemedicine.org

 

 

 

 

 

________________________________

<johnkokko

Chinese Medicine

Fri, 16 April, 2010 7:23:39

Re: Re: Tonification with exterior patterns

 

Sharon,

yes... there is some debate on if cancer was prevalent in ancient times or

not...

They didn't have GMOs, oil spills in their water supply and chemical laden

cigarettes,

but they did inhale smoke in close quarters (fires in caves etc.) on a daily

basis.

Eating too many carbs vs animal proteins was probably not on their radars.

Tobacco and radiation were products of the New World.

 

Our ancestors a few thousand years ago probably didn't live long enough to

see a lot of the diseases that we talk about today. If they did, cancer

tumors might be something that is talked about more in the Nei jing for

instance.

It does seem that a lot of the Shang han za bing lun is devoted to water

accumulation diseases and phlegm, as well as blood stasis, so it will be

interesting to see what a SHL expert says about this.

 

Toxic heat is not something that I hear very much in SHL circles and a lot

of the cancer formulas we use today contain cold, bitter and even toxic

medicinals (that are not in the SHL), as well as the ones that Zhang Zhong

Jing used to tonify the zheng Qi of the patient, while they're undergoing

chemo etc. So, it will be interesting to see if Huang Huang includes these

non-SHZBL herbs in the discussion or goes about this in a different way.

 

K

 

 

 

On Fri, Apr 16, 2010 at 3:56 AM, sharon weizenbaum <sweiz wrote:

 

>

>

> K writes: Sharon,

> Thanks for organizing this...

>

> Is the price the same for the live stream as the live lecture?

> Great subject.... there aren't enough seminars about using formulas in

> cancer treatment.

>

> The class Dr. Huang Huang is teaching in July is technically on support and

> > treatment of cancer patients however the principles of these teachings

> can

> > be broadly applied for both chronic and acute presentations. It will be

> > streamed live so people all over can participate...

> >

> > Here is the link if you are interested.

> >

> >

> http://www.whitepinehealingarts.com/seminars/huanghuang/huanghuangjuly.htm

> >

>

> Sharon replies: Hi K,

>

> Your welcome! Yes, the price is the same but streaming participants will be

> able to interact and ask questions as if they are there and everyone will be

> receiving all the handouts and CEU's (CA and NCCAOM)

>

> You are right about the seminars on cancer being very rare. Yet, in my own

> practice I see many people who are seeking support while they undergo

> allopathic treatment and a few who are choosing not to undergo allopathic

> treatment. What I have learned so far with Huang Huang has been so

> immediately helpful.

>

>

> Best

>

> Sharon

>

> Sharon Weizenbaum

> 86 Henry Street

> Amherst, MA 01002

> www.whitepinehealingarts.com

> Topics in Blog

> sweiz <sweiz%40rcn.com>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hugo,

I think you need to read my post clearly again...

 

This is a recycling of our conversation from a couple months ago.

I said then that our ancestors (the ones that existed... in the millions,

not the hundreds of millions or billions)

were probably very strong... physically much stronger than most of us

and closer to nature; this is obvious.

But to say that the average life expectancy was greater than modern humans

is not substantiated.

Here's a chart from wiki... I know it's wiki... but the data here (from

Encyclopedia Brittanica 1961)

is the same as the textbooks for anthropology 101

Upper Paleolithic <https://mail.google.com/wiki/Paleolithic> 33 At age 15:

39 (to age

54)[7]<https://mail.google.com/mail/html/compose/static_files/blank_quirks.html#\

cite_note-kaplan-6>

[8]<https://mail.google.com/mail/html/compose/static_files/blank_quirks.html#cit\

e_note-7>

Neolithic <https://mail.google.com/wiki/Neolithic> 20 Bronze

Age<https://mail.google.com/wiki/Bronze_Age>

[9]<https://mail.google.com/mail/html/compose/static_files/blank_quirks.html#cit\

e_note-8>

18 Classical Greece

<https://mail.google.com/wiki/Classical_Greece>[10]<https://mail.google.com/mail\

/html/compose/static_files/blank_quirks.html#cite_note-britannica-9>

28 Classical Rome

<https://mail.google.com/wiki/Classical_Rome>[10]<https://mail.google.com/mail/h\

tml/compose/static_files/blank_quirks.html#cite_note-britannica-9>

28 Pre-Columbian North

America<https://mail.google.com/wiki/Indigenous_peoples_of_the_Americas>

[11]<https://mail.google.com/mail/html/compose/static_files/blank_quirks.html#ci\

te_note-10>

25-30 Medieval Islamic Caliphate <https://mail.google.com/wiki/Caliphate>[

12]<https://mail.google.com/mail/html/compose/static_files/blank_quirks.html#cit\

e_note-11>

35 Medieval Britain

<https://mail.google.com/wiki/Medieval_Britain>[13]<https://mail.google.com/mail\

/html/compose/static_files/blank_quirks.html#cite_note-12>

[14]<https://mail.google.com/mail/html/compose/static_files/blank_quirks.html#ci\

te_note-13>

20-30 Early 20th Century <https://mail.google.com/wiki/1900%E2%80%931909>[

15]<https://mail.google.com/mail/html/compose/static_files/blank_quirks.html#cit\

e_note-14>

[16]<https://mail.google.com/mail/html/compose/static_files/blank_quirks.html#ci\

te_note-15>

30-45 Current world

average[17]<https://mail.google.com/mail/html/compose/static_files/blank_quirks.\

html#cite_note-16>

67.2 2010 est.

Upper Paleolithic <https://mail.google.com/wiki/Paleolithic> 33 At age 15:

39 (to age

54)[7]<https://mail.google.com/mail/html/compose/static_files/blank_quirks.html#\

cite_note-kaplan-6>

[8]<https://mail.google.com/mail/html/compose/static_files/blank_quirks.html#cit\

e_note-7>

Neolithic <https://mail.google.com/wiki/Neolithic> 20 Bronze

Age<https://mail.google.com/wiki/Bronze_Age>

[9]<https://mail.google.com/mail/html/compose/static_files/blank_quirks.html#cit\

e_note-8>

18 Classical Greece

<https://mail.google.com/wiki/Classical_Greece>[10]<https://mail.google.com/mail\

/html/compose/static_files/blank_quirks.html#cite_note-britannica-9>

28 Classical Rome

<https://mail.google.com/wiki/Classical_Rome>[10]<https://mail.google.com/mail/h\

tml/compose/static_files/blank_quirks.html#cite_note-britannica-9>

28 Pre-Columbian North

America<https://mail.google.com/wiki/Indigenous_peoples_of_the_Americas>

[11]<https://mail.google.com/mail/html/compose/static_files/blank_quirks.html#ci\

te_note-10>

25-30 Medieval Islamic Caliphate <https://mail.google.com/wiki/Caliphate>[

12]<https://mail.google.com/mail/html/compose/static_files/blank_quirks.html#cit\

e_note-11>

35 Medieval Britain

<https://mail.google.com/wiki/Medieval_Britain>[13]<https://mail.google.com/mail\

/html/compose/static_files/blank_quirks.html#cite_note-12>

[14]<https://mail.google.com/mail/html/compose/static_files/blank_quirks.html#ci\

te_note-13>

20-30 Early 20th Century <https://mail.google.com/wiki/1900%E2%80%931909>[

15]<https://mail.google.com/mail/html/compose/static_files/blank_quirks.html#cit\

e_note-14>

[16]<https://mail.google.com/mail/html/compose/static_files/blank_quirks.html#ci\

te_note-15>

30-45 Current world

average[17]<https://mail.google.com/mail/html/compose/static_files/blank_quirks.\

html#cite_note-16>

67.2 2010 est.

Upper Paleolithic <https://mail.google.com/wiki/Paleolithic> 33 At age 15:

39 (to age

54)[7]<https://mail.google.com/mail/html/compose/static_files/blank_quirks.html#\

cite_note-kaplan-6>

[8]<https://mail.google.com/mail/html/compose/static_files/blank_quirks.html#cit\

e_note-7>

Neolithic <https://mail.google.com/wiki/Neolithic> 20 Bronze

Age<https://mail.google.com/wiki/Bronze_Age>

[9]<https://mail.google.com/mail/html/compose/static_files/blank_quirks.html#cit\

e_note-8>

18 Classical Greece

<https://mail.google.com/wiki/Classical_Greece>[10]<https://mail.google.com/mail\

/html/compose/static_files/blank_quirks.html#cite_note-britannica-9>

28 Classical Rome

<https://mail.google.com/wiki/Classical_Rome>[10]<https://mail.google.com/mail/h\

tml/compose/static_files/blank_quirks.html#cite_note-britannica-9>

28 Pre-Columbian North

America<https://mail.google.com/wiki/Indigenous_peoples_of_the_Americas>

[11]<https://mail.google.com/mail/html/compose/static_files/blank_quirks.html#ci\

te_note-10>

25-30 Medieval Islamic Caliphate <https://mail.google.com/wiki/Caliphate>[

12]<https://mail.google.com/mail/html/compose/static_files/blank_quirks.html#cit\

e_note-11>

35 Medieval Britain

<https://mail.google.com/wiki/Medieval_Britain>[13]<https://mail.google.com/mail\

/html/compose/static_files/blank_quirks.html#cite_note-12>

[14]<https://mail.google.com/mail/html/compose/static_files/blank_quirks.html#ci\

te_note-13>

20-30 Early 20th Century <https://mail.google.com/wiki/1900%E2%80%931909>[

15]<https://mail.google.com/mail/html/compose/static_files/blank_quirks.html#cit\

e_note-14>

[16]<https://mail.google.com/mail/html/compose/static_files/blank_quirks.html#ci\

te_note-15>

30-45 Current world

average[17]<https://mail.google.com/mail/html/compose/static_files/blank_quirks.\

html#cite_note-16>

67.2 2010 est.

Humans by Era Average Lifespan at Birth

(years) Comment Upper Paleolithic <https://mail.google.com/wiki/Paleolithic>

33 At age 15: 39 (to age

54)[7]<https://mail.google.com/mail/html/compose/static_files/blank_quirks.html#\

cite_note-kaplan-6>

[8]<https://mail.google.com/mail/html/compose/static_files/blank_quirks.html#cit\

e_note-7>

Neolithic <https://mail.google.com/wiki/Neolithic> 20 Bronze

Age<https://mail.google.com/wiki/Bronze_Age>

[9]<https://mail.google.com/mail/html/compose/static_files/blank_quirks.html#cit\

e_note-8>

18 Classical Greece

<https://mail.google.com/wiki/Classical_Greece>[10]<https://mail.google.com/mail\

/html/compose/static_files/blank_quirks.html#cite_note-britannica-9>

28 Classical Rome

<https://mail.google.com/wiki/Classical_Rome>[10]<https://mail.google.com/mail/h\

tml/compose/static_files/blank_quirks.html#cite_note-britannica-9>

28 Pre-Columbian North

America<https://mail.google.com/wiki/Indigenous_peoples_of_the_Americas>

[11]<https://mail.google.com/mail/html/compose/static_files/blank_quirks.html#ci\

te_note-10>

25-30 Medieval Islamic Caliphate <https://mail.google.com/wiki/Caliphate>[

12]<https://mail.google.com/mail/html/compose/static_files/blank_quirks.html#cit\

e_note-11>

35 Medieval Britain

<https://mail.google.com/wiki/Medieval_Britain>[13]<https://mail.google.com/mail\

/html/compose/static_files/blank_quirks.html#cite_note-12>

[14]<https://mail.google.com/mail/html/compose/static_files/blank_quirks.html#ci\

te_note-13>

20-30 Early 20th Century <https://mail.google.com/wiki/1900%E2%80%931909>[

15]<https://mail.google.com/mail/html/compose/static_files/blank_quirks.html#cit\

e_note-14>

[16]<https://mail.google.com/mail/html/compose/static_files/blank_quirks.html#ci\

te_note-15>

30-45 Current world

average[17]<https://mail.google.com/mail/html/compose/static_files/blank_quirks.\

html#cite_note-16>

67.2 2010 est.

Humans by Era Average Lifespan at Birth

(years) Comment Upper Paleolithic <https://mail.google.com/wiki/Paleolithic>

33 At age 15: 39 (to age

54)[7]<https://mail.google.com/mail/html/compose/static_files/blank_quirks.html#\

cite_note-kaplan-6>

[8]<https://mail.google.com/mail/html/compose/static_files/blank_quirks.html#cit\

e_note-7>

Neolithic <https://mail.google.com/wiki/Neolithic> 20 Bronze

Age<https://mail.google.com/wiki/Bronze_Age>

[9]<https://mail.google.com/mail/html/compose/static_files/blank_quirks.html#cit\

e_note-8>

18 Classical Greece

<https://mail.google.com/wiki/Classical_Greece>[10]<https://mail.google.com/mail\

/html/compose/static_files/blank_quirks.html#cite_note-britannica-9>

28 Classical Rome

<https://mail.google.com/wiki/Classical_Rome>[10]<https://mail.google.com/mail/h\

tml/compose/static_files/blank_quirks.html#cite_note-britannica-9>

28 Pre-Columbian North

America<https://mail.google.com/wiki/Indigenous_peoples_of_the_Americas>

[11]<https://mail.google.com/mail/html/compose/static_files/blank_quirks.html#ci\

te_note-10>

25-30 Medieval Islamic Caliphate <https://mail.google.com/wiki/Caliphate>[

12]<https://mail.google.com/mail/html/compose/static_files/blank_quirks.html#cit\

e_note-11>

35 Medieval Britain

<https://mail.google.com/wiki/Medieval_Britain>[13]<https://mail.google.com/mail\

/html/compose/static_files/blank_quirks.html#cite_note-12>

[14]<https://mail.google.com/mail/html/compose/static_files/blank_quirks.html#ci\

te_note-13>

20-30 Early 20th Century <https://mail.google.com/wiki/1900%E2%80%931909>[

15]<https://mail.google.com/mail/html/compose/static_files/blank_quirks.html#cit\

e_note-14>

[16]<https://mail.google.com/mail/html/compose/static_files/blank_quirks.html#ci\

te_note-15>

30-45 Current world

average[17]<https://mail.google.com/mail/html/compose/static_files/blank_quirks.\

html#cite_note-16>

67.2 2010 est.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Life_expectancy

 

Either it's a conspiracy, or it's just the plain truth. Why do you think

Ramses II, was considered a god,

outliving his grand children? He lived to 90-91, which was unheard of even

in Egyptian society,

where the nobility were bathed in herbs. He outlived 3 generations.

To say that we live longer than our ancestors is not racist and does not

disrespect our ancestors.

I don't know where you're getting that. I don't credit Europeans for all

of the technology we use today.

 

Actually a lot of " technology " comes from the Chinese, Egyptian, Arabian and

Persian nations,

especially before the European " enlightenment " and " renaissance " eras.

Mayan, Asian and African (Egyptian) astronomy advanced our knowledge of

ourselves within the cosmos

far before the world-wide colonial period.

In scholarly studies, Hebrew, Mediterranean, North African, Indus valley,

Chinese, Tibetan, Korean, Japanese,

Mayan, Aztec, Egyptian/ Coptic (before the Great Library of Alexandria was

burned down) etc.

all contributed to " civilization " and this does not include all of the

indigenous groups lost in time.

 

So, can we talk about how cancer was seen by Chinese living in the Han

dynasty?

 

K

 

 

 

On Fri, Apr 16, 2010 at 8:34 AM, Hugo Ramiro <subincor wrote:

 

>

>

> Hi John and all:

>

> ---

>

> Our ancestors a few thousand years ago probably didn't live long enough to

> see a lot of the diseases that we talk about today. If they did, cancer

> tumors might be something that is talked about more in the Nei jing for

> instance.

> ---

>

> Could you please support speculative statements like these with proof or

> even *ANY* type of evidence? Ideas such as the above are products of a

> blowhard modern culture which considers itself superior in every way to

> every one at every point in history.

> It is a boring and completely unsupported viewpoint.

>

> On the other hand, there is extensive research which investigates modern

> traditional cultures which are representative (based on archaeological and

> anthropological evidence) of ancient cultures, and these people live long

> lives with low incidence of disease (Campbell 2005, Willcox, Willcox, Suzuki

> 2001 are two major and recent popular summaries on this topic). Please do

> your research before promoting damaging, disempowering and negatively

> powerful viewpoints.

>

> As an introduction, please purchase the recent popular survey on the topic,

> " Manthropology " , available for pre-order through any major bookseller. The

> author, a paleoanthropologist, says " ‘We tend to assume that in modern

> civilisation everything we do is better than how it has been done before.’’

>

> For a visual representation of his opinion, see:

> http://www.hachette.com.au/images/imagepage.php

>

> From the promotional sites:

> " Drawing from archaeology, anthropology and evolutionary psychology, the

> author confirms the awful truth: every man in history, back to the dawn of

> the species, did everything better, faster, stronger and smarter than any

> man today. "

>

> His comparison of australian aboriginal sprinters running on a wet beach to

> " Bolt " Hussein running on a hard track is particularly satisfying to me. The

> quotation marks around Hussein's nickname have a particular irony in this

> context.

>

> Furthermore, how " inhaling wood-smoke on a daily basis " can be compared to

> the toxic air we currently experience boggles my mind.

>

> The old time Inuit of the arctic lived on average 40 - 60 years and they

> lived in the harshest environment on the planet. I'd like to see a modern

> man survive *one* comparable season there (just him, his hands, mind and

> spirit).

>

> Please stop repeating these ridiculous modern superstitions - they border

> on racist ( " only white society has produced viable physical, mental and

> spiritual culture " ). It is time we got our information right in this

> supposed information age.

>

> Thanks,

> Hugo

>

> ________________________________

> Hugo Ramiro

> http://middlemedicine.wordpress.com

> http://www.middlemedicine.org

>

> ________________________________

> <johnkokko <johnkokko%40gmail.com>>

> To:

Chinese Medicine <Chinese Medicine%40yaho\

ogroups.com>

> Fri, 16 April, 2010 7:23:39

> Re: Re: Tonification with exterior patterns

>

>

> Sharon,

> yes... there is some debate on if cancer was prevalent in ancient times or

> not...

> They didn't have GMOs, oil spills in their water supply and chemical laden

> cigarettes,

> but they did inhale smoke in close quarters (fires in caves etc.) on a

> daily

> basis.

> Eating too many carbs vs animal proteins was probably not on their radars.

> Tobacco and radiation were products of the New World.

>

> Our ancestors a few thousand years ago probably didn't live long enough to

> see a lot of the diseases that we talk about today. If they did, cancer

> tumors might be something that is talked about more in the Nei jing for

> instance.

> It does seem that a lot of the Shang han za bing lun is devoted to water

> accumulation diseases and phlegm, as well as blood stasis, so it will be

> interesting to see what a SHL expert says about this.

>

> Toxic heat is not something that I hear very much in SHL circles and a lot

> of the cancer formulas we use today contain cold, bitter and even toxic

> medicinals (that are not in the SHL), as well as the ones that Zhang Zhong

> Jing used to tonify the zheng Qi of the patient, while they're undergoing

> chemo etc. So, it will be interesting to see if Huang Huang includes these

> non-SHZBL herbs in the discussion or goes about this in a different way.

>

> K

>

> On Fri, Apr 16, 2010 at 3:56 AM, sharon weizenbaum

<sweiz<sweiz%40rcn.com>>

> wrote:

>

> >

> >

> > K writes: Sharon,

> > Thanks for organizing this...

> >

> > Is the price the same for the live stream as the live lecture?

> > Great subject.... there aren't enough seminars about using formulas in

> > cancer treatment.

> >

> > The class Dr. Huang Huang is teaching in July is technically on support

> and

> > > treatment of cancer patients however the principles of these teachings

> > can

> > > be broadly applied for both chronic and acute presentations. It will be

> > > streamed live so people all over can participate...

> > >

> > > Here is the link if you are interested.

> > >

> > >

> >

> http://www.whitepinehealingarts.com/seminars/huanghuang/huanghuangjuly.htm

> > >

> >

> > Sharon replies: Hi K,

> >

> > Your welcome! Yes, the price is the same but streaming participants will

> be

> > able to interact and ask questions as if they are there and everyone will

> be

> > receiving all the handouts and CEU's (CA and NCCAOM)

> >

> > You are right about the seminars on cancer being very rare. Yet, in my

> own

> > practice I see many people who are seeking support while they undergo

> > allopathic treatment and a few who are choosing not to undergo allopathic

> > treatment. What I have learned so far with Huang Huang has been so

> > immediately helpful.

> >

> >

> > Best

> >

> > Sharon

> >

> > Sharon Weizenbaum

> > 86 Henry Street

> > Amherst, MA 01002

> > www.whitepinehealingarts.com

> > Topics in Blog

> > sweiz <sweiz%40rcn.com> <sweiz%40rcn.com>

>

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Hi John, I may write a clearer post later with numbers and such, but you are

mistaking average for distribution. Your charts show average, not distribution.

Many babies died " in the past " . This brings the average way down. In the 1900s

average lifespan in the u.s. was about 45 yrs. It increased by ten years every

decade after that. Why? Three things: fewer babies died and more people had

access to sufficient food and clean water and protection from the environment.

So what I am saying is that, in ancient u.s.a. (1900), average lifespan was 45

years. Egads.

 

And unless you provide more data, your example of Ramses is spurious. A single

data-point when we have access to reams of data.

 

So, again, quit saying that our lifespan is greater than before, and start

saying that fewer people die between birth and puberty in certain areas of our

modern world, and as it has always happened. The pattern remains unchanged

throughout history. Life expectancy is a statistical trick that is often used to

cover up the fact that we are not living longer, but rather that fewer children

die. In our modern world there are many areas where expectancy is near 30.

Where? Well, where there is little food, water, shelter, and much stress and war

(and because of these things, lots of infectious disease as well). Life

EXPECTANCY is a function of AFFLUENCE (meaning protection from the environment,

lots of good quality food and water, and nobody trying to bleed you dry or kill

you).

 

And as far as conspiracy theories - you mean like the one where the American

Medical Association says we're not real doctors and we practice snake-oil

medicine? Sheesh.

 

As far as cancer, read the China study and you'll get an idea of what the

traditional way of life led to in terms of cancer type and incidence in China.

I.e. incredibly low rates of said disease versus our modern " long-lived "

society.

 

Also check the link below for a BBC news story which serves as a mini survey of

how long people lived in medieval britain. There is a commentary about cancer

there as well.

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/241864.stm

 

Again, I am railing against the idea that we have it better than everyone else

in history, when in many many ways, we do *not*. For example, cancer is *not*

more prevalent because we are living longer (which, again, is a main idea that I

am ranting against), but rather because we are eating incredibly poorly, we are

incredibly weak and we are incredibly polluted. Sky-high cancer rates have

nothing to do with the best people of the world living longer than all the other

poor sods who couldn't even put on their own socks in the mornings.

 

You are confusing average with distribution.

 

Thanks,

Hugo

 

________________________________

Hugo Ramiro

http://middlemedicine.wordpress.com

http://www.middlemedicine.org

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Hugo,

 

Just curious, are you saying that you think the avg. life-span was the same 2000

years ago as it is today. I think that it is pretty much standard academic

thought (for better or worse) that people died much younger 2000 years ago. This

“fact†has nothing to do with being overall superior and I think John’s

(?) point is a valid idea.

 

 

 

-Jason

 

 

 

Chinese Medicine

Chinese Medicine On Behalf Of Hugo Ramiro

Friday, April 16, 2010 9:34 AM

Chinese Medicine

Re: Re: Tonification with exterior patterns

 

 

 

 

 

Hi John and all:

 

---

Our ancestors a few thousand years ago probably didn't live long enough to

see a lot of the diseases that we talk about today. If they did, cancer

tumors might be something that is talked about more in the Nei jing for

instance.

---

 

Could you please support speculative statements like these with proof or even

*ANY* type of evidence? Ideas such as the above are products of a blowhard

modern culture which considers itself superior in every way to every one at

every point in history.

It is a boring and completely unsupported viewpoint.

 

On the other hand, there is extensive research which investigates modern

traditional cultures which are representative (based on archaeological and

anthropological evidence) of ancient cultures, and these people live long lives

with low incidence of disease (Campbell 2005, Willcox, Willcox, Suzuki 2001 are

two major and recent popular summaries on this topic). Please do your research

before promoting damaging, disempowering and negatively powerful viewpoints.

 

As an introduction, please purchase the recent popular survey on the topic,

" Manthropology " , available for pre-order through any major bookseller. The

author, a paleoanthropologist, says " ‘We tend to assume that in modern

civilisation everything we do is better than how it has been done before.’’

 

For a visual representation of his opinion, see:

http://www.hachette.com.au/images/imagepage.php

 

From the promotional sites:

" Drawing from archaeology, anthropology and evolutionary psychology, the author

confirms the awful truth: every man in history, back to the dawn of the species,

did everything better, faster, stronger and smarter than any man today. "

 

His comparison of australian aboriginal sprinters running on a wet beach to

" Bolt " Hussein running on a hard track is particularly satisfying to me. The

quotation marks around Hussein's nickname have a particular irony in this

context.

 

Furthermore, how " inhaling wood-smoke on a daily basis " can be compared to the

toxic air we currently experience boggles my mind.

 

The old time Inuit of the arctic lived on average 40 - 60 years and they lived

in the harshest environment on the planet. I'd like to see a modern man survive

*one* comparable season there (just him, his hands, mind and spirit).

 

Please stop repeating these ridiculous modern superstitions - they border on

racist ( " only white society has produced viable physical, mental and spiritual

culture " ). It is time we got our information right in this supposed information

age.

 

Thanks,

Hugo

 

________________________________

Hugo Ramiro

http://middlemedicine.wordpress.com

http://www.middlemedicine.org

 

________________________________

<johnkokko <johnkokko%40gmail.com> >

Chinese Medicine

<Chinese Medicine%40>

Fri, 16 April, 2010 7:23:39

Re: Re: Tonification with exterior patterns

 

Sharon,

yes... there is some debate on if cancer was prevalent in ancient times or

not...

They didn't have GMOs, oil spills in their water supply and chemical laden

cigarettes,

but they did inhale smoke in close quarters (fires in caves etc.) on a daily

basis.

Eating too many carbs vs animal proteins was probably not on their radars.

Tobacco and radiation were products of the New World.

 

Our ancestors a few thousand years ago probably didn't live long enough to

see a lot of the diseases that we talk about today. If they did, cancer

tumors might be something that is talked about more in the Nei jing for

instance.

It does seem that a lot of the Shang han za bing lun is devoted to water

accumulation diseases and phlegm, as well as blood stasis, so it will be

interesting to see what a SHL expert says about this.

 

Toxic heat is not something that I hear very much in SHL circles and a lot

of the cancer formulas we use today contain cold, bitter and even toxic

medicinals (that are not in the SHL), as well as the ones that Zhang Zhong

Jing used to tonify the zheng Qi of the patient, while they're undergoing

chemo etc. So, it will be interesting to see if Huang Huang includes these

non-SHZBL herbs in the discussion or goes about this in a different way.

 

K

 

On Fri, Apr 16, 2010 at 3:56 AM, sharon weizenbaum <sweiz

<sweiz%40rcn.com> > wrote:

 

>

>

> K writes: Sharon,

> Thanks for organizing this...

>

> Is the price the same for the live stream as the live lecture?

> Great subject.... there aren't enough seminars about using formulas in

> cancer treatment.

>

> The class Dr. Huang Huang is teaching in July is technically on support and

> > treatment of cancer patients however the principles of these teachings

> can

> > be broadly applied for both chronic and acute presentations. It will be

> > streamed live so people all over can participate...

> >

> > Here is the link if you are interested.

> >

> >

> http://www.whitepinehealingarts.com/seminars/huanghuang/huanghuangjuly.htm

> >

>

> Sharon replies: Hi K,

>

> Your welcome! Yes, the price is the same but streaming participants will be

> able to interact and ask questions as if they are there and everyone will be

> receiving all the handouts and CEU's (CA and NCCAOM)

>

> You are right about the seminars on cancer being very rare. Yet, in my own

> practice I see many people who are seeking support while they undergo

> allopathic treatment and a few who are choosing not to undergo allopathic

> treatment. What I have learned so far with Huang Huang has been so

> immediately helpful.

>

>

> Best

>

> Sharon

>

> Sharon Weizenbaum

> 86 Henry Street

> Amherst, MA 01002

> www.whitepinehealingarts.com

> Topics in Blog

> sweiz <sweiz%40rcn.com> <sweiz%40rcn.com>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Average age was skewed back in the day due to far greater infant mortality.

 

 

 

 

-

" Hugo Ramiro " <subincor

<Chinese Medicine >

Friday, April 16, 2010 8:34 AM

Re: Re: Tonification with exterior patterns

 

 

Hi John and all:

 

---

Our ancestors a few thousand years ago probably didn't live long enough to

see a lot of the diseases that we talk about today. If they did, cancer

tumors might be something that is talked about more in the Nei jing for

instance.

---

 

 

Could you please support speculative statements like these with proof or

even *ANY* type of evidence? Ideas such as the above are products of a

blowhard modern culture which considers itself superior in every way to

every one at every point in history.

It is a boring and completely unsupported viewpoint.

 

On the other hand, there is extensive research which investigates modern

traditional cultures which are representative (based on archaeological and

anthropological evidence) of ancient cultures, and these people live long

lives with low incidence of disease (Campbell 2005, Willcox, Willcox, Suzuki

2001 are two major and recent popular summaries on this topic). Please do

your research before promoting damaging, disempowering and negatively

powerful viewpoints.

 

As an introduction, please purchase the recent popular survey on the topic,

" Manthropology " , available for pre-order through any major bookseller. The

author, a paleoanthropologist, says " ‘We tend to assume that in modern

civilisation everything we do is better than how it has been done before.’’

 

For a visual representation of his opinion, see:

http://www.hachette.com.au/images/imagepage.php

 

From the promotional sites:

" Drawing from archaeology, anthropology and evolutionary psychology, the

author confirms the awful truth: every man in history, back to the dawn of

the species, did everything better, faster, stronger and smarter than any

man today. "

 

His comparison of australian aboriginal sprinters running on a wet beach to

" Bolt " Hussein running on a hard track is particularly satisfying to me. The

quotation marks around Hussein's nickname have a particular irony in this

context.

 

Furthermore, how " inhaling wood-smoke on a daily basis " can be compared to

the toxic air we currently experience boggles my mind.

 

The old time Inuit of the arctic lived on average 40 - 60 years and they

lived in the harshest environment on the planet. I'd like to see a modern

man survive *one* comparable season there (just him, his hands, mind and

spirit).

 

Please stop repeating these ridiculous modern superstitions - they border

on racist ( " only white society has produced viable physical, mental and

spiritual culture " ). It is time we got our information right in this

supposed information age.

 

Thanks,

Hugo

 

________________________________

Hugo Ramiro

http://middlemedicine.wordpress.com

http://www.middlemedicine.org

 

 

 

 

 

________________________________

<johnkokko

Chinese Medicine

Fri, 16 April, 2010 7:23:39

Re: Re: Tonification with exterior patterns

 

Sharon,

yes... there is some debate on if cancer was prevalent in ancient times or

not...

They didn't have GMOs, oil spills in their water supply and chemical laden

cigarettes,

but they did inhale smoke in close quarters (fires in caves etc.) on a daily

basis.

Eating too many carbs vs animal proteins was probably not on their radars.

Tobacco and radiation were products of the New World.

 

Our ancestors a few thousand years ago probably didn't live long enough to

see a lot of the diseases that we talk about today. If they did, cancer

tumors might be something that is talked about more in the Nei jing for

instance.

It does seem that a lot of the Shang han za bing lun is devoted to water

accumulation diseases and phlegm, as well as blood stasis, so it will be

interesting to see what a SHL expert says about this.

 

Toxic heat is not something that I hear very much in SHL circles and a lot

of the cancer formulas we use today contain cold, bitter and even toxic

medicinals (that are not in the SHL), as well as the ones that Zhang Zhong

Jing used to tonify the zheng Qi of the patient, while they're undergoing

chemo etc. So, it will be interesting to see if Huang Huang includes these

non-SHZBL herbs in the discussion or goes about this in a different way.

 

K

 

 

 

On Fri, Apr 16, 2010 at 3:56 AM, sharon weizenbaum <sweiz wrote:

 

>

>

> K writes: Sharon,

> Thanks for organizing this...

>

> Is the price the same for the live stream as the live lecture?

> Great subject.... there aren't enough seminars about using formulas in

> cancer treatment.

>

> The class Dr. Huang Huang is teaching in July is technically on support

> and

> > treatment of cancer patients however the principles of these teachings

> can

> > be broadly applied for both chronic and acute presentations. It will be

> > streamed live so people all over can participate...

> >

> > Here is the link if you are interested.

> >

> >

> http://www.whitepinehealingarts.com/seminars/huanghuang/huanghuangjuly.htm

> >

>

> Sharon replies: Hi K,

>

> Your welcome! Yes, the price is the same but streaming participants will

> be

> able to interact and ask questions as if they are there and everyone will

> be

> receiving all the handouts and CEU's (CA and NCCAOM)

>

> You are right about the seminars on cancer being very rare. Yet, in my own

> practice I see many people who are seeking support while they undergo

> allopathic treatment and a few who are choosing not to undergo allopathic

> treatment. What I have learned so far with Huang Huang has been so

> immediately helpful.

>

>

> Best

>

> Sharon

>

> Sharon Weizenbaum

> 86 Henry Street

> Amherst, MA 01002

> www.whitepinehealingarts.com

> Topics in Blog

> sweiz <sweiz%40rcn.com>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I find this position precarious. I spent time with Dr. Jensen (DC/PhD) and Dr.

Gary Young (ND) and saw the evidence of both men's research on elderly in

non-industrialized peoples around the world and found many routinely living an

active life beyond what we see here. While there is little doubt about child

mortality, we have one of the highest mortality rates going right now in the US.

How much of our current mortality years are being skewed by keeping people alive

and bedridden or in a coma? That is not quality of life nor is it an accurate

reflection of lifespan. Has anyone thought about the 250 year old Chinese man?

 

Michael W. Bowser, DC, LAc

Chinese Medicine

magisterium_magnum

Fri, 16 Apr 2010 22:56:12 -0700

Re: Re: Tonification with exterior patterns

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Average age was skewed back in the day due to far greater infant

mortality.

 

 

 

-

 

" Hugo Ramiro " <subincor

 

<Chinese Medicine >

 

Friday, April 16, 2010 8:34 AM

 

Re: Re: Tonification with exterior patterns

 

 

 

Hi John and all:

 

 

 

---

 

Our ancestors a few thousand years ago probably didn't live long enough to

 

see a lot of the diseases that we talk about today. If they did, cancer

 

tumors might be something that is talked about more in the Nei jing for

 

instance.

 

---

 

 

 

Could you please support speculative statements like these with proof or

 

even *ANY* type of evidence? Ideas such as the above are products of a

 

blowhard modern culture which considers itself superior in every way to

 

every one at every point in history.

 

It is a boring and completely unsupported viewpoint.

 

 

 

On the other hand, there is extensive research which investigates modern

 

traditional cultures which are representative (based on archaeological and

 

anthropological evidence) of ancient cultures, and these people live long

 

lives with low incidence of disease (Campbell 2005, Willcox, Willcox, Suzuki

 

2001 are two major and recent popular summaries on this topic). Please do

 

your research before promoting damaging, disempowering and negatively

 

powerful viewpoints.

 

 

 

As an introduction, please purchase the recent popular survey on the topic,

 

" Manthropology " , available for pre-order through any major bookseller. The

 

author, a paleoanthropologist, says " ‘We tend to assume that in modern

 

civilisation everything we do is better than how it has been done before.’’

 

 

 

For a visual representation of his opinion, see:

 

http://www.hachette.com.au/images/imagepage.php

 

 

 

From the promotional sites:

 

" Drawing from archaeology, anthropology and evolutionary psychology, the

 

author confirms the awful truth: every man in history, back to the dawn of

 

the species, did everything better, faster, stronger and smarter than any

 

man today. "

 

 

 

His comparison of australian aboriginal sprinters running on a wet beach to

 

" Bolt " Hussein running on a hard track is particularly satisfying to me. The

 

quotation marks around Hussein's nickname have a particular irony in this

 

context.

 

 

 

Furthermore, how " inhaling wood-smoke on a daily basis " can be compared to

 

the toxic air we currently experience boggles my mind.

 

 

 

The old time Inuit of the arctic lived on average 40 - 60 years and they

 

lived in the harshest environment on the planet. I'd like to see a modern

 

man survive *one* comparable season there (just him, his hands, mind and

 

spirit).

 

 

 

Please stop repeating these ridiculous modern superstitions - they border

 

on racist ( " only white society has produced viable physical, mental and

 

spiritual culture " ). It is time we got our information right in this

 

supposed information age.

 

 

 

Thanks,

 

Hugo

 

 

 

________________________________

 

Hugo Ramiro

 

http://middlemedicine.wordpress.com

 

http://www.middlemedicine.org

 

 

 

________________________________

 

<johnkokko

 

Chinese Medicine

 

Fri, 16 April, 2010 7:23:39

 

Re: Re: Tonification with exterior patterns

 

 

 

Sharon,

 

yes... there is some debate on if cancer was prevalent in ancient times or

 

not...

 

They didn't have GMOs, oil spills in their water supply and chemical laden

 

cigarettes,

 

but they did inhale smoke in close quarters (fires in caves etc.) on a daily

 

basis.

 

Eating too many carbs vs animal proteins was probably not on their radars.

 

Tobacco and radiation were products of the New World.

 

 

 

Our ancestors a few thousand years ago probably didn't live long enough to

 

see a lot of the diseases that we talk about today. If they did, cancer

 

tumors might be something that is talked about more in the Nei jing for

 

instance.

 

It does seem that a lot of the Shang han za bing lun is devoted to water

 

accumulation diseases and phlegm, as well as blood stasis, so it will be

 

interesting to see what a SHL expert says about this.

 

 

 

Toxic heat is not something that I hear very much in SHL circles and a lot

 

of the cancer formulas we use today contain cold, bitter and even toxic

 

medicinals (that are not in the SHL), as well as the ones that Zhang Zhong

 

Jing used to tonify the zheng Qi of the patient, while they're undergoing

 

chemo etc. So, it will be interesting to see if Huang Huang includes these

 

non-SHZBL herbs in the discussion or goes about this in a different way.

 

 

 

K

 

 

 

On Fri, Apr 16, 2010 at 3:56 AM, sharon weizenbaum <sweiz wrote:

 

 

 

>

 

>

 

> K writes: Sharon,

 

> Thanks for organizing this...

 

>

 

> Is the price the same for the live stream as the live lecture?

 

> Great subject.... there aren't enough seminars about using formulas in

 

> cancer treatment.

 

>

 

> The class Dr. Huang Huang is teaching in July is technically on support

 

> and

 

> > treatment of cancer patients however the principles of these teachings

 

> can

 

> > be broadly applied for both chronic and acute presentations. It will be

 

> > streamed live so people all over can participate...

 

> >

 

> > Here is the link if you are interested.

 

> >

 

> >

 

> http://www.whitepinehealingarts.com/seminars/huanghuang/huanghuangjuly.htm

 

> >

 

>

 

> Sharon replies: Hi K,

 

>

 

> Your welcome! Yes, the price is the same but streaming participants will

 

> be

 

> able to interact and ask questions as if they are there and everyone will

 

> be

 

> receiving all the handouts and CEU's (CA and NCCAOM)

 

>

 

> You are right about the seminars on cancer being very rare. Yet, in my own

 

> practice I see many people who are seeking support while they undergo

 

> allopathic treatment and a few who are choosing not to undergo allopathic

 

> treatment. What I have learned so far with Huang Huang has been so

 

> immediately helpful.

 

>

 

>

 

> Best

 

>

 

> Sharon

 

>

 

> Sharon Weizenbaum

 

> 86 Henry Street

 

> Amherst, MA 01002

 

> www.whitepinehealingarts.com

 

> Topics in Blog

 

> sweiz <sweiz%40rcn.com>

 

>

 

>

[Guest guest]

Here's a little story...

Right out of college, I hopped trains with my friend half-way across the

country to Elko Nevada

and at a " hobo festival " met Stevie, a photographer who took photos of

hermits and monks in Daoist mountains in China.

He told me of when he went with his friend Bill Porter aka Red Pine to these

far-away mountains where the Chinese monks rarely saw other people, let

alone two white guys. Most of these hermits and monks never saw a

non-Chinese person in their lifetime, so of course, they ran to these two

travellers touching their clothes and hair, making sure they were real and

not ghosts. Stevie had a long white beard that grew down to his chest.

Bill introduced him as his 180 year old teacher.

What do you think happened? These monks virtually fell over in reverence,

bowing down, freaked out to be in the presence of an " immortal " . It turns

out that Stevie was just a 60 year old hippie with hairy genes.

 

So, how many people do you know are 250 years old or can throw people across

the room with their Qi ?

 

K

 

 

 

On Sat, Apr 17, 2010 at 7:15 AM, mike Bowser <naturaldoc1wrote:

 

>

> I find this position precarious. I spent time with Dr. Jensen (DC/PhD) and

> Dr. Gary Young (ND) and saw the evidence of both men's research on elderly

> in non-industrialized peoples around the world and found many routinely

> living an active life beyond what we see here. While there is little doubt

> about child mortality, we have one of the highest mortality rates going

> right now in the US. How much of our current mortality years are being

> skewed by keeping people alive and bedridden or in a coma? That is not

> quality of life nor is it an accurate reflection of lifespan. Has anyone

> thought about the 250 year old Chinese man?

>

> Michael W. Bowser, DC, LAc

> Chinese Medicine

> magisterium_magnum

> Fri, 16 Apr 2010 22:56:12 -0700

> Re: Re: Tonification with exterior patterns

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

Average age was skewed back in the day due to far greater infant

> mortality.

>

>

>

> -

>

> " Hugo Ramiro " <subincor

>

> <Chinese Medicine >

>

> Friday, April 16, 2010 8:34 AM

>

> Re: Re: Tonification with exterior patterns

>

>

>

> Hi John and all:

>

>

>

> ---

>

> Our ancestors a few thousand years ago probably didn't live long enough to

>

> see a lot of the diseases that we talk about today. If they did, cancer

>

> tumors might be something that is talked about more in the Nei jing for

>

> instance.

>

> ---

>

>

>

> Could you please support speculative statements like these with proof or

>

> even *ANY* type of evidence? Ideas such as the above are products of a

>

> blowhard modern culture which considers itself superior in every way to

>

> every one at every point in history.

>

> It is a boring and completely unsupported viewpoint.

>

>

>

> On the other hand, there is extensive research which investigates modern

>

> traditional cultures which are representative (based on archaeological and

>

> anthropological evidence) of ancient cultures, and these people live long

>

> lives with low incidence of disease (Campbell 2005, Willcox, Willcox,

> Suzuki

>

> 2001 are two major and recent popular summaries on this topic). Please do

>

> your research before promoting damaging, disempowering and negatively

>

> powerful viewpoints.

>

>

>

> As an introduction, please purchase the recent popular survey on the topic,

>

> " Manthropology " , available for pre-order through any major bookseller. The

>

> author, a paleoanthropologist, says " 糎e tend to assume that in modern

>

> civilisation everything we do is better than how it has been done before.鋳

>

>

>

> For a visual representation of his opinion, see:

>

> http://www.hachette.com.au/images/imagepage.php

>

>

>

> From the promotional sites:

>

> " Drawing from archaeology, anthropology and evolutionary psychology, the

>

> author confirms the awful truth: every man in history, back to the dawn of

>

> the species, did everything better, faster, stronger and smarter than any

>

> man today. "

>

>

>

> His comparison of australian aboriginal sprinters running on a wet beach to

>

> " Bolt " Hussein running on a hard track is particularly satisfying to me.

> The

>

> quotation marks around Hussein's nickname have a particular irony in this

>

> context.

>

>

>

> Furthermore, how " inhaling wood-smoke on a daily basis " can be compared to

>

> the toxic air we currently experience boggles my mind.

>

>

>

> The old time Inuit of the arctic lived on average 40 - 60 years and they

>

> lived in the harshest environment on the planet. I'd like to see a modern

>

> man survive *one* comparable season there (just him, his hands, mind and

>

> spirit).

>

>

>

> Please stop repeating these ridiculous modern superstitions - they border

>

> on racist ( " only white society has produced viable physical, mental and

>

> spiritual culture " ). It is time we got our information right in this

>

> supposed information age.

>

>

>

> Thanks,

>

> Hugo

>

>

>

> ________________________________

>

> Hugo Ramiro

>

> http://middlemedicine.wordpress.com

>

> http://www.middlemedicine.org

>

>

>

> ________________________________

>

> <johnkokko

>

> Chinese Medicine

>

> Fri, 16 April, 2010 7:23:39

>

> Re: Re: Tonification with exterior patterns

>

>

>

> Sharon,

>

> yes... there is some debate on if cancer was prevalent in ancient times or

>

> not...

>

> They didn't have GMOs, oil spills in their water supply and chemical laden

>

> cigarettes,

>

> but they did inhale smoke in close quarters (fires in caves etc.) on a

> daily

>

> basis.

>

> Eating too many carbs vs animal proteins was probably not on their radars.

>

> Tobacco and radiation were products of the New World.

>

>

>

> Our ancestors a few thousand years ago probably didn't live long enough to

>

> see a lot of the diseases that we talk about today. If they did, cancer

>

> tumors might be something that is talked about more in the Nei jing for

>

> instance.

>

> It does seem that a lot of the Shang han za bing lun is devoted to water

>

> accumulation diseases and phlegm, as well as blood stasis, so it will be

>

> interesting to see what a SHL expert says about this.

>

>

>

> Toxic heat is not something that I hear very much in SHL circles and a lot

>

> of the cancer formulas we use today contain cold, bitter and even toxic

>

> medicinals (that are not in the SHL), as well as the ones that Zhang Zhong

>

> Jing used to tonify the zheng Qi of the patient, while they're undergoing

>

> chemo etc. So, it will be interesting to see if Huang Huang includes

> these

>

> non-SHZBL herbs in the discussion or goes about this in a different way.

>

>

>

> K

>

>

>

> On Fri, Apr 16, 2010 at 3:56 AM, sharon weizenbaum <sweiz wrote:

>

>

>

> >

>

> >

>

> > K writes: Sharon,

>

> > Thanks for organizing this...

>

> >

>

> > Is the price the same for the live stream as the live lecture?

>

> > Great subject.... there aren't enough seminars about using formulas in

>

> > cancer treatment.

>

> >

>

> > The class Dr. Huang Huang is teaching in July is technically on support

>

> > and

>

> > > treatment of cancer patients however the principles of these teachings

>

> > can

>

> > > be broadly applied for both chronic and acute presentations. It will be

>

> > > streamed live so people all over can participate...

>

> > >

>

> > > Here is the link if you are interested.

>

> > >

>

> > >

>

> >

> http://www.whitepinehealingarts.com/seminars/huanghuang/huanghuangjuly.htm

>

> > >

>

> >

>

> > Sharon replies: Hi K,

>

> >

>

> > Your welcome! Yes, the price is the same but streaming participants will

>

> > be

>

> > able to interact and ask questions as if they are there and everyone will

>

> > be

>

> > receiving all the handouts and CEU's (CA and NCCAOM)

>

> >

>

> > You are right about the seminars on cancer being very rare. Yet, in my

> own

>

> > practice I see many people who are seeking support while they undergo

>

> > allopathic treatment and a few who are choosing not to undergo allopathic

>

> > treatment. What I have learned so far with Huang Huang has been so

>

> > immediately helpful.

>

> >

>

> >

>

> > Best

>

> >

>

> > Sharon

>

> >

>

> > Sharon Weizenbaum

>

> > 86 Henry Street

>

> > Amherst, MA 01002

>

> > www.whitepinehealingarts.com

>

> > Topics in Blog

>

> > sweiz <sweiz%40rcn.com>

>

> >

>

> >

[Guest guest]

Hi Mike, Lee Ching-Yuen is the man you're referring to, I believe.

I agree with your points, and it is too easy to skew a p.o.v. with numbers.

 

Hugo

 

 

________________________________

Hugo Ramiro

http://middlemedicine.wordpress.com

http://www.middlemedicine.org

 

 

 

 

 

________________________________

mike Bowser <naturaldoc1

Chinese Traditional Medicine

Sat, 17 April, 2010 10:15:37

RE: Re: Tonification with exterior patterns

 

 

I find this position precarious. I spent time with Dr. Jensen (DC/PhD) and Dr.

Gary Young (ND) and saw the evidence of both men's research on elderly in

non-industrialized peoples around the world and found many routinely living an

active life beyond what we see here. While there is little doubt about child

mortality, we have one of the highest mortality rates going right now in the US.

How much of our current mortality years are being skewed by keeping people alive

and bedridden or in a coma? That is not quality of life nor is it an accurate

reflection of lifespan. Has anyone thought about the 250 year old Chinese man?

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

K,

 

Dr. Jensen (died at 93) kept a picture of the man on his office wall during the

time I was there. Here is a blurb about him.

http://www.martialdevelopment.com/blog/li-ching-yuen-the-amazing-250-year-old-ma\

n/

 

Michael W. Bowser, DC, LAc

 

Chinese Medicine

johnkokko

Sat, 17 Apr 2010 21:43:53 -0700

Re: Re: Tonification with exterior patterns

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Here's a little story...

 

Right out of college, I hopped trains with my friend half-way across the

 

country to Elko Nevada

 

and at a " hobo festival " met Stevie, a photographer who took photos of

 

hermits and monks in Daoist mountains in China.

 

He told me of when he went with his friend Bill Porter aka Red Pine to these

 

far-away mountains where the Chinese monks rarely saw other people, let

 

alone two white guys. Most of these hermits and monks never saw a

 

non-Chinese person in their lifetime, so of course, they ran to these two

 

travellers touching their clothes and hair, making sure they were real and

 

not ghosts. Stevie had a long white beard that grew down to his chest.

 

Bill introduced him as his 180 year old teacher.

 

What do you think happened? These monks virtually fell over in reverence,

 

bowing down, freaked out to be in the presence of an " immortal " . It turns

 

out that Stevie was just a 60 year old hippie with hairy genes.

 

 

 

So, how many people do you know are 250 years old or can throw people across

 

the room with their Qi ?

 

 

 

K

 

 

 

On Sat, Apr 17, 2010 at 7:15 AM, mike Bowser <naturaldoc1wrote:

 

 

 

>

 

> I find this position precarious. I spent time with Dr. Jensen (DC/PhD) and

 

> Dr. Gary Young (ND) and saw the evidence of both men's research on elderly

 

> in non-industrialized peoples around the world and found many routinely

 

> living an active life beyond what we see here. While there is little doubt

 

> about child mortality, we have one of the highest mortality rates going

 

> right now in the US. How much of our current mortality years are being

 

> skewed by keeping people alive and bedridden or in a coma? That is not

 

> quality of life nor is it an accurate reflection of lifespan. Has anyone

 

> thought about the 250 year old Chinese man?

 

>

 

> Michael W. Bowser, DC, LAc

 

> Chinese Medicine

 

> magisterium_magnum

 

> Fri, 16 Apr 2010 22:56:12 -0700

 

> Re: Re: Tonification with exterior patterns

 

>

 

>

 

>

 

>

 

>

 

>

 

>

 

>

 

>

 

>

 

>

 

>

 

>

 

>

 

>

 

>

 

>

 

>

 

>

 

>

 

>

 

>

 

>

 

>

 

>

 

>

 

>

 

>

 

> Average age was skewed back in the day due to far greater infant

 

> mortality.

 

>

 

>

 

>

 

> -

 

>

 

> " Hugo Ramiro " <subincor

 

>

 

> <Chinese Medicine >

 

>

 

> Friday, April 16, 2010 8:34 AM

 

>

 

> Re: Re: Tonification with exterior patterns

 

>

 

>

 

>

 

> Hi John and all:

 

>

 

>

 

>

 

> ---

 

>

 

> Our ancestors a few thousand years ago probably didn't live long enough to

 

>

 

> see a lot of the diseases that we talk about today. If they did, cancer

 

>

 

> tumors might be something that is talked about more in the Nei jing for

 

>

 

> instance.

 

>

 

> ---

 

>

 

>

 

>

 

> Could you please support speculative statements like these with proof or

 

>

 

> even *ANY* type of evidence? Ideas such as the above are products of a

 

>

 

> blowhard modern culture which considers itself superior in every way to

 

>

 

> every one at every point in history.

 

>

 

> It is a boring and completely unsupported viewpoint.

 

>

 

>

 

>

 

> On the other hand, there is extensive research which investigates modern

 

>

 

> traditional cultures which are representative (based on archaeological and

 

>

 

> anthropological evidence) of ancient cultures, and these people live long

 

>

 

> lives with low incidence of disease (Campbell 2005, Willcox, Willcox,

 

> Suzuki

 

>

 

> 2001 are two major and recent popular summaries on this topic). Please do

 

>

 

> your research before promoting damaging, disempowering and negatively

 

>

 

> powerful viewpoints.

 

>

 

>

 

>

 

> As an introduction, please purchase the recent popular survey on the topic,

 

>

 

> " Manthropology " , available for pre-order through any major bookseller. The

 

>

 

> author, a paleoanthropologist, says " 糎e tend to assume that in modern

 

>

 

> civilisation everything we do is better than how it has been done before.鋳

 

>

 

>

 

>

 

> For a visual representation of his opinion, see:

 

>

 

> http://www.hachette.com.au/images/imagepage.php

 

>

 

>

 

>

 

> From the promotional sites:

 

>

 

> " Drawing from archaeology, anthropology and evolutionary psychology, the

 

>

 

> author confirms the awful truth: every man in history, back to the dawn of

 

>

 

> the species, did everything better, faster, stronger and smarter than any

 

>

 

> man today. "

 

>

 

>

 

>

 

> His comparison of australian aboriginal sprinters running on a wet beach to

 

>

 

> " Bolt " Hussein running on a hard track is particularly satisfying to me.

 

> The

 

>

 

> quotation marks around Hussein's nickname have a particular irony in this

 

>

 

> context.

 

>

 

>

 

>

 

> Furthermore, how " inhaling wood-smoke on a daily basis " can be compared to

 

>

 

> the toxic air we currently experience boggles my mind.

 

>

 

>

 

>

 

> The old time Inuit of the arctic lived on average 40 - 60 years and they

 

>

 

> lived in the harshest environment on the planet. I'd like to see a modern

 

>

 

> man survive *one* comparable season there (just him, his hands, mind and

 

>

 

> spirit).

 

>

 

>

 

>

 

> Please stop repeating these ridiculous modern superstitions - they border

 

>

 

> on racist ( " only white society has produced viable physical, mental and

 

>

 

> spiritual culture " ). It is time we got our information right in this

 

>

 

> supposed information age.

 

>

 

>

 

>

 

> Thanks,

 

>

 

> Hugo

 

>

 

>

 

>

 

> ________________________________

 

>

 

> Hugo Ramiro

 

>

 

> http://middlemedicine.wordpress.com

 

>

 

> http://www.middlemedicine.org

 

>

 

>

 

>

 

> ________________________________

 

>

 

> <johnkokko

 

>

 

> Chinese Medicine

 

>

 

> Fri, 16 April, 2010 7:23:39

 

>

 

> Re: Re: Tonification with exterior patterns

 

>

 

>

 

>

 

> Sharon,

 

>

 

> yes... there is some debate on if cancer was prevalent in ancient times or

 

>

 

> not...

 

>

 

> They didn't have GMOs, oil spills in their water supply and chemical laden

 

>

 

> cigarettes,

 

>

 

> but they did inhale smoke in close quarters (fires in caves etc.) on a

 

> daily

 

>

 

> basis.

 

>

 

> Eating too many carbs vs animal proteins was probably not on their radars.

 

>

 

> Tobacco and radiation were products of the New World.

 

>

 

>

 

>

 

> Our ancestors a few thousand years ago probably didn't live long enough to

 

>

 

> see a lot of the diseases that we talk about today. If they did, cancer

 

>

 

> tumors might be something that is talked about more in the Nei jing for

 

>

 

> instance.

 

>

 

> It does seem that a lot of the Shang han za bing lun is devoted to water

 

>

 

> accumulation diseases and phlegm, as well as blood stasis, so it will be

 

>

 

> interesting to see what a SHL expert says about this.

 

>

 

>

 

>

 

> Toxic heat is not something that I hear very much in SHL circles and a lot

 

>

 

> of the cancer formulas we use today contain cold, bitter and even toxic

 

>

 

> medicinals (that are not in the SHL), as well as the ones that Zhang Zhong

 

>

 

> Jing used to tonify the zheng Qi of the patient, while they're undergoing

 

>

 

> chemo etc. So, it will be interesting to see if Huang Huang includes

 

> these

 

>

 

> non-SHZBL herbs in the discussion or goes about this in a different way.

 

>

 

>

 

>

 

> K

 

>

 

>

 

>

 

> On Fri, Apr 16, 2010 at 3:56 AM, sharon weizenbaum <sweiz wrote:

 

>

 

>

 

>

 

> >

 

>

 

> >

 

>

 

> > K writes: Sharon,

 

>

 

> > Thanks for organizing this...

 

>

 

> >

 

>

 

> > Is the price the same for the live stream as the live lecture?

 

>

 

> > Great subject.... there aren't enough seminars about using formulas in

 

>

 

> > cancer treatment.

 

>

 

> >

 

>

 

> > The class Dr. Huang Huang is teaching in July is technically on support

 

>

 

> > and

 

>

 

> > > treatment of cancer patients however the principles of these teachings

 

>

 

> > can

 

>

 

> > > be broadly applied for both chronic and acute presentations. It will be

 

>

 

> > > streamed live so people all over can participate...

 

>

 

> > >

 

>

 

> > > Here is the link if you are interested.

 

>

 

> > >

 

>

 

> > >

 

>

 

> >

 

> http://www.whitepinehealingarts.com/seminars/huanghuang/huanghuangjuly.htm

 

>

 

> > >

 

>

 

> >

 

>

 

> > Sharon replies: Hi K,

 

>

 

> >

 

>

 

> > Your welcome! Yes, the price is the same but streaming participants will

 

>

 

> > be

 

>

 

> > able to interact and ask questions as if they are there and everyone will

 

>

 

> > be

 

>

 

> > receiving all the handouts and CEU's (CA and NCCAOM)

 

>

 

> >

 

>

 

> > You are right about the seminars on cancer being very rare. Yet, in my

 

> own

 

>

 

> > practice I see many people who are seeking support while they undergo

 

>

 

> > allopathic treatment and a few who are choosing not to undergo allopathic

 

>

 

> > treatment. What I have learned so far with Huang Huang has been so

 

>

 

> > immediately helpful.

 

>

 

> >

 

>

 

> >

 

>

 

> > Best

 

>

 

> >

 

>

 

> > Sharon

 

>

 

> >

 

>

 

> > Sharon Weizenbaum

 

>

 

> > 86 Henry Street

 

>

 

> > Amherst, MA 01002

 

>

 

> > www.whitepinehealingarts.com

 

>

 

> > Topics in Blog

 

>

 

> > sweiz <sweiz%40rcn.com>

 

>

 

> >

 

>

 

> >

[Guest guest]

Hi John,

 

Regarding your question of whether people are living longer now and therefore

experiencing more disease.

 

I don't know if you have read the China Study, but on page 76 (and it is not

his only statement of this nature) Campbell writes:

 

" Coronary heart disease, by the way, is relatively uncommon in many developing

societies of the world. This is not because people die at a younger age, thus

avoiding these western diseases. "

 

Again, for all those interested, purchase and read the China Study.

 

Thanks,

Hugo

 

________________________________

Hugo Ramiro

http://middlemedicine.wordpress.com

http://www.middlemedicine.org