Degrees

April 27, 2010

You are a sage as well.

Michael W. Bowser, DC, LAc

> Chinese Traditional Medicine

> don83407

> Tue, 27 Apr 2010 16:36:21 -0500

> RE: Re: Degrees

>

> Thanks Hugo, I needed your kind words,

>

> I just want all of us to succeed so badly, and I fear we are our own worst

enemy. It is not unattainable. I am not overly smart nor overly talented. I

just have a very open (and anal) mind. If something is not working, I try

something else and do not quit until I find the solution. You just have to

think outside the box a bit both clinically and commercially. I just think

people are in their own little comfort zones and they do not want to leave, even

if it means death. And it does if we don't do something. I promise you this,

it is much more comfortable on this side of the " comfort " zone, although I'm

always fending off those locally that don't like what I do.

>

> There is an old saying that I like to repeat, and it applies to many of our

collegues (clinically and in practice management.) It is this:

>

> The definition of insanity is " someone doing the same thing over and over

again. And even again with even more vigor, but expecting a different outcome. "

I tell you the truth, if you want a different outcome, do it differently.

>

> My two cents,

>

> Sincerely,

>

> Don Snow

>

_______________

The New Busy is not the too busy. Combine all your e-mail accounts with Hotmail.

http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?tile=multiaccount & ocid=PID28326::\

T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WM_HMP:042010_4

April 28, 2010

John,

Where do you teach?

The quality of papers varies according to background, but are surprisingly

good overall. . . I agree that quality of communication skills is essential in

our field, as is the ability to 'think through' cases using Chinese medical

logic. .

On Apr 25, 2010, at 3:14 AM, wrote:

> Z'ev,

> that is really great. In my classes (even acupuncture technique), I make

> the students write 3 page essays for their trimester final paper. 4 pages

> might be pushing it, since many feel overloaded already with other classes

> and written and practical tests.

>

> What has been your experience of your students' writing skills, since many

> of them don't have this kind of background? (everyone wrote papers in high

> school English classes, but maybe not in college). This seems essential

> to be able to communicate effectively, instead of just circling multiple

> choice dots.

>

> Verbalizing concepts uses another side of the brain too (or integrating both

> halves, depending on how you look at it)... another thing we need to

> cultivate as practitioners teaching patients.

>

> K

>

> On Sat, Apr 24, 2010 at 10:15 PM, <zrosenbewrote:

>

>>

>> John,

>> In my classes (formulas and SHL/Wen Bing) I give only essay tests, and have

>> students verbalize cases and concepts to develop their logical skills, which

>> are essential for the study and practice of Chinese medicine.

>>

>> On Apr 23, 2010, at 5:46 PM, wrote:

>>

>>> TCM schools require more memorization and less analyzation than most

>>> post-grad programs..

>>> TCM schools require no writing skills (essays), but many quizzing and

>>> testing (multiple choice) and some fill-in-the-blank.

>>>

>>> Most post-grad programs require project-creating (business/sciences)

>> and/or

>>> 20-40 page essays per class per semester (humanities) with a 200+ page

>>> dissertation scrutinized by a committee with an initial proposal for

>>> research PhDs.

>>>

>>> TCM colleges are difficult for many in the 1st year and 2nd years

>>> especially, because it's a new language (pinyin / TCM language) and

>> there's

>>> a lot of memorization (stuffing thousands of years of foundational

>> material

>>> in one year)..

>>>

>>> In China, isn't the BA program curriculum the same as what is considered

>> a

>>> Masters program in the US? So, yes... I believe that what is called

>>> post-grad (Masters) program for TCM is really like an under-grad program

>> for

>>> Chinese medicine. In the US, we need 2 full years to memorize

>> terminology,

>>> diagnostic signs, acupuncture points, herbs and formulas... and 2 full

>>> years to analyze and clinically practice the medicine. That's why I'm

>>> for the FPD.

>>>

>>> K

>>>

>>> K

>>>

>>> On Fri, Apr 23, 2010 at 5:51 PM,

>>> <acukath <acukath%40gmail.com>>wrote:

>>>

>>>>

>>>> rosemary:

>>>>

>>>> If we want to see a

>>>> doctoral-level education, the school culture has to change; as a start

>> the

>>>> teachers salaries need to be increased to the point where they match

>>>> salaries of other professionals teaching in universities.

>>>>

>>>> i couldn't agree with you more on this issue. the local acu college in

>> my

>>>> town pays (incrediably) $25/hr! painters make more than that. pcom, i

>>>> understand, pays $45. part of the problem is that our teachers are not

>>>> professors. i feel they should be, but it's more thatn a matter of

>> handing

>>>> out a title, there are requirements that go with the prof title, which i

>>>> feel our academics & schools should meet.

>>>>

>>>> part of the pay problem, as i see (you men may disagree) is that we are

>> a

>>>> female dominated profession, and women make 75% of what men make.

>>>>

>>>> my Opinion folks,

>>>>

>>>> kath

>>>>

>>>> --

>>>>

>>>> Oriental Medicine

>>>> Experienced, Dedicated, Effective

>>>>

>>>> Abstain from all that is evil.

>>>> Perform all that is good.

>>>> Purify your thoughts.

>>>> This is the teaching of the Buddhas.

>>>>

>>>> Follow Your Bliss!

>>>> Joseph Campbell

>>>>

>>>> Kath's Blog about , Healthy Living & Spirituality:

>>>> http://acukath.blogspot.com/

>>>>

>>>> Flying Dragon Liniment: Effective pain relief for muscles & joints

>>>> Formulated by Kath Bartlett, Traditional Chinese Herbalist

>>>> Available at Asheville Center for :

>>>> www.FlyingDragonLiniment.com

>>>>

>>>> Greenlife Grocery - Asheville, NC

>>>>

>>>> Amazon.com

>>>>

>>

http://www.amazon.com/Flying-Dragon-Liniment-Eco-Friendly-Wild-Crafted/dp/B001OC\

1AZ2/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8 & s=hpc & qid=1254968032 & sr=8-1

>>>>

>>>> and from the following supply companies:

>>>> Kamwo Herbal Pharmacy: NY - Chinatown

>>>> https://www.kamwo.com/shop/product.php?productid=17442 & cat=0 & page=1

>>>>

>>>> Golden Needle Acupuncture, Herbal & Medical Supply - Candler, NC

>>>>

>>

http://www.goldenneedleonline.com/index.php?page=categories & category=14 & vendor= & \

product=5554 & pg=

>>>>

>>>> Asheville Center For

>>>> 70 Woodfin Place, Suite West Wing Two

>>>> Asheville, NC 28801 828.258.2777

>>>>

kbartlett<kbartlett%40AcupunctureAsheville.com><kbartle\

tt%40AcupunctureAsheville.com>

>>

>>>> www.AcupunctureAsheville.com

>>>>

April 28, 2010

Alot of the young kids come straight out of Universites with fresh Bachelor

degrees. (Believe it or not.) They have no business or real world

experience, and most of their " marketing " comes from getting family members

in the area to come in for treatments.

I, however am interested in any tips you could give. Perhaps you could

start with a top ten list. Thanks!

-

" Donald Snow " <don83407

Tuesday, April 27, 2010 11:46 AM

RE: Re: Degrees

>

> I have personally offered to help students and have more often than not

> been snubbed. Mostly they do not/cannot believe how much I'm making in my

> practices. Therefore, I've gone so far as to share my income tax returns

> and financials, and they still don't believe it. I've shared this info

> with Marilyn Allen, who by the way does believe me, and she says she gets

> the same response from students in her classes that I get. They just

> don't believe it.

>

> Too bad.

>

> Sincerely,

>

> Don Snow, DAOM, MPH, L.Ac.

>

>> Chinese Traditional Medicine

>> naturaldoc1

>> Tue, 27 Apr 2010 18:32:59 +0000

>> RE: Re: Degrees

April 28, 2010

Angela

What about the $50,000 plus the schools charge for the over bloated

masters?

If they haven't taken clinic costs into account then they haven't done a

realistic business plan.

Having been privy to at least one school......it's a rip off and highly

unethical.

Richard A Freiberg OMD DAc AP LAc

In a message dated 4/28/2010 3:16:46 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,

angelapfa writes:

.................I also wanted to reply to the statement that the school

clinic tend to keep

the money the clients pay, that this seems fair to be because every

treatment has a cost, and in my office that cost is about $15 per visit

and

the school obviously has to pay for the supervisor and their insurance on

top of it.

Regards,

Angela Pfaffenberger, Ph.D.

April 28, 2010

..gee, now THAT didn't sound presumptuous or arrogant in the least.

-Everett Churchill

_____

Chinese Medicine

Chinese Medicine On Behalf Of Donald

Snow

Tuesday, April 27, 2010 4:13 PM

Chinese Traditional Medicine

RE: Re: Degrees

Dr. Bowser,

I just want you to know that you were the only one to comment on my thread

statement. Usually no one does. What this means to me is that most

practitioners are doing just fine and do not need any assistance or advice.

People are just talking about a problem that really must not exist. That is

why I usually do not offer assistance or input too much any more. It is like

taking the keys to my Mercedes and giving them away to someone, only to have

them throw it back in my face.

What is that old Bible parable? " Never cast your pearls before swine (or

dogs?). "

Sincerely,

Don Snow

> traditional_ <Chinese Traditional Medicine%40>

chinese_medicine

> naturaldoc1@ <naturaldoc1%40hotmail.com> hotmail.com

> Tue, 27 Apr 2010 19:07:14 +0000

> RE: Re: Degrees

>

> In order to be that successful, one needs to have outside info and help to

pull it off. Good for you to show them. Some people have a tough time with

reality. For those that are struggling, I would hope it would sink in.

>

> Michael W. Bowser, DC, LAc

>

> traditional_ <Chinese Traditional Medicine%40>

chinese_medicine

> don83407 (AT) msn (DOT) <don83407%40msn.com> com

> Tue, 27 Apr 2010 13:46:06 -0500

> RE: Re: Degrees

>

I have personally offered to help students and have more often than not

been snubbed. Mostly they do not/cannot believe how much I'm making in my

practices. Therefore, I've gone so far as to share my income tax returns and

financials, and they still don't believe it. I've shared this info with

Marilyn Allen, who by the way does believe me, and she says she gets the

same response from students in her classes that I get. They just don't

believe it.

>

> Too bad.

>

> Sincerely,

>

> Don Snow, DAOM, MPH, L.Ac.

>

> > traditional_ <Chinese Traditional Medicine%40>

chinese_medicine

>

> > naturaldoc1@ <naturaldoc1%40hotmail.com> hotmail.com

>

> > Tue, 27 Apr 2010 18:32:59 +0000

>

> > RE: Re: Degrees

>

> >

>

> >

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> > They tend to be a little too open and allowing of anything goes from the

schools. You are right though.

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> >

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> > Any thoughts about starting a school, let's say in San Diego? A little

competition might get them to change.

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> > So, let's help the graduates and unsuccessful practitioners by sharing

good info, to these individual when we find them. I talk with many local

graduates when I attend the annual Symposium at one of our local schools.

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> > I may, eventually, start a local study group for students and

practitioners to discuss issues as well as work on our skills. Those are

some ways that I feel we can help students get this vital information.

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> > Michael W. Bowser, DC, LAc

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> > traditional_ <Chinese Traditional Medicine%40>

chinese_medicine

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> > don83407 (AT) msn (DOT) <don83407%40msn.com> com

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> > Tue, 27 Apr 2010 13:23:27 -0500

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> > RE: Re: Degrees

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> > You and me and all the rest of us. But they could care less. We are

nobodys in their eyes. We have no power. Perhaps ACAOM or one of those other

acronyms.

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> > > naturaldoc1@ <naturaldoc1%40hotmail.com> hotmail.com

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> > > Tue, 27 Apr 2010 16:34:07 +0000

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> > > RE: Re: Degrees

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> > > Agreed. So who is going to tell the lesser programs they need to

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> > > Tue, 27 Apr 2010 11:05:19 -0500

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pieces or modalities to be learned and licensed. For instance, an MD must

learn his whole medicine in order to be a surgeon. You can't just get

certified in surgery. Our medicine is a whole and it is best practiced that

way. If, after graduation, one wants to specialize in one aspect, that's

fine. But we need to learn the entire system.

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> > > Don Snow, DAOM, MPH, L.Ac.

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chinese_medicine

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> > > > naturaldoc1@ <naturaldoc1%40hotmail.com> hotmail.com

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> > > > Tue, 27 Apr 2010 15:32:55 +0000

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> > > > RE: Re: Degrees

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> > > > It does not matter if you use it but that you are benefiting from it

and so its the profession in FL, as is evident from our comment about your

patients asking how to address you. As we have lost our identity, to a

technique, we now need to look at becoming a multi-faceted professional that

offers ALL that OM has to offer. That is why I am concerned with the

singular technique programs that focus upon acupuncture and negate herbs,

diet, etc. If we continue to take our profession apart, then we are limiting

ourselves. Education in some states only recognizes acupuncture and

therefore, we are technicians. We need to change that and that is one thing

that a FPD will help with. We have many things that we need to work on and I

think we can multi-task.

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> > > > Traditional_

Chinese_Medicine

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> > > > acudoc11 (AT) aol (DOT) <acudoc11%40aol.com> com

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> > > > Mon, 26 Apr 2010 19:39:11 -0400

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> > > > I guess you missed my point in the e-mail.

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> > > > I do NOT use the title Doctor or Physician even though I fought for

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> > > > And I patients sign my full disclosure telling them I am NOT an MD

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> > > > In a message dated 4/26/2010 5:09:17 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,

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> > > > naturaldoc1@ <naturaldoc1%40hotmail.com> hotmail.com writes:

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> > > > From the doctor title and how it does affect your patient's image

you. It

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> > > > might not matter to some practitioners. Patient's do tend to trust

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> > > > designations and titles otherwise people would not be so willing to

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> > > > would the AMA try to eliminate all CAM providers from usage as well.

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> > > > Michael W. Bowser, DC, LAc

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> > > > acudoc11 (AT) aol (DOT) <acudoc11%40aol.com> com

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> > > > Mon, 26 Apr 2010 17:01:55 -0400

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> > > > Re: Re: Degrees

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> > > > Benefit from this?

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> > > > What THIS might you be referring to?

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> > > > Richard A Freiberg OMD DAc AP LAc

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> > > > In a message dated 4/26/2010 2:33:22 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,

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> > > > naturaldoc1@ <naturaldoc1%40hotmail.com> hotmail.com writes:

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> > > > So, in essence, you did benefit from this. This is not simply about

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> > > > marketing but also about who

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> > > > we are. We are doctors, IMO, and not technicians.

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> > > > Michael W. Bowser, DC, LAc

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April 28, 2010

E,

If someone wants to help our struggling graduates and has been able to create a

large income from practice. What should he say then?

Michael W. Bowser, DC, LAc

Chinese Medicine

pine.village.tcm

Wed, 28 Apr 2010 11:16:15 -0500

RE: Re: Degrees

.gee, now THAT didn't sound presumptuous or arrogant in the least.