Guest guest Posted September 3, 1999 Report Share Posted September 3, 1999 Does anybody know of a good website that would contain scientific papers regarding this " successful " research from China? Where I am located right now I am unable to get to a TCM school library and so the web is my only option. In obtaining my B.S. in biology I must give several seminars on a topic of my choice; the only requirement being that it is a scientific paper from a peer reviewed journal. Last semester I gave a talk on a specific plant protein isolated from Momordica charantia (I don't know it's chinese name, it is also known as bitter melon) which was utilized to inactivate the HIV virus. I would prefer to give my next talk on a paper that is based on an herbal formula. This is one of the problems with convincing the scientific world in the use of herbal medicines. They look for isolated chemicals or proteins,etc... while a formula containing up to 15 different herbs would be boggling to the reductionists mind in ascertaining what actually caused the effect. There is even talk out there that the Wesern herbalists remedy for such scepticism, standardized extracts, do not actually have the amount of standardization they claim to have. If anyone has some leads on sites or places I could write away to, to obtain these papers I would be very interested! Thanks, David Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 3, 1999 Report Share Posted September 3, 1999 Dear David, I am not aware of any websites that have the information in English. . .. .The actual journals can be obtained via mail from Eastwind Books, (415) 772-5899 in San Francisco. . .while in Chinese, there are English abstracts accompanying them. Also, Blue Poppy Press in Boulder, Colo. translates this research (1-800-487-9296), and has many articles available of this type. I recently had a meeting with Novartis Research scientists, who would like to do studies on Chinese herbs. . . .but they again want isolated extracts to use in mice or test-tube situations. . ..they simply have no model for examining complex prescriptions at this point. This is a big problem. For example, Compound Q, the momordica extract you mentioned (tian hua fen, or trichosanthes root), was used in actual trials and underground in the HIV community, but was found to be toxic to the nervous system, causing convulsions, etc. No such effects are found when the herb itself is taken. Standardized extracts are another problem. Many herb companies have standardized their extracts in terms of amounts of herbal material, but only German companies, as far as I know, have standardized the actual 'active' chemical constituents. . . .usually by refining out other components. , FNAAOM >dcrussell > >Does anybody know of a good website that would contain scientific papers >regarding this " successful " research from China? Where I am located right >now I am unable to get to a TCM school library and so the web is my only >option. >In obtaining my B.S. in biology I must give several seminars on a topic of >my choice; the only requirement being that it is a scientific paper from >a peer reviewed journal. Last semester I gave a talk on a specific plant >protein isolated from Momordica charantia (I don't know it's chinese name, >it is also known as bitter melon) which was utilized to inactivate the HIV >virus. >I would prefer to give my next talk on a paper that is based on an herbal >formula. This is one of the problems with convincing the scientific >world in the use of herbal medicines. They look for isolated chemicals or >proteins,etc... while a formula containing up to 15 different herbs would >be boggling to the reductionists mind in ascertaining what actually caused >the effect. >There is even talk out there that the Wesern herbalists remedy >for such scepticism, standardized extracts, do not actually have the amount >of standardization they claim to have. > >If anyone has some leads on sites or places I could write away to, to >obtain these papers I would be very interested! >Thanks, >David > >--------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > >ONElist now has T-SHIRTS! >For details and to order, go to: ><a href= " http://clickme./ad/tshirt1 " >Click Here</a> > >------ >Chronic Diseases Heal - Chinese Herbs Can Help Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 4, 1999 Report Share Posted September 4, 1999 Dave, Unfortunately most of it is not in english. However, subhuti dharmananda has been summarizing translations and abstracts of this info for twenty years. Contact him at itmonline.org. Blue poppy has a whole series of translated research reports, request their catalog at www.bluepoppy.com Does anyone have an opinion on the controversy over whether chinese herbs should be restricted to TCM style practice or expanded to allopathic use, as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 4, 1999 Report Share Posted September 4, 1999 A word about standardized extracts as there is no standard definition of this term and a lot of misinformation out there right now. First, standardization simply means that a product has been concentrated to yield a specific level of a " marker " ingredient in the final product. No reputable company that I am aware of considers this marker to be the sole or even the most important constituent of the herb. In fact, all herb companies make a point of saying that their product is a synergistic blend of components, not an isolated component. So while it is true that only large companies have the technology to standardize a product, it is totally untrue that the typical product from Germany are essentially drugs that have had most of their normal consitutents refined away. In fact, the typical standardized extract has a full complement of constituents, while most nonstandardized extracts have little or nothing in them at all. For example, standardized st john's wort from nature's plus contains dozens of constituents, which is documented by laboratory analysis. Not only does it contain .3% hypericin, but everything else in proportion, as well. Comparison products made " naturally " have been shown to contain 50 times less of everything, making them essentially worthless. Standardization guarantees potency and reproducibility in dosage, which is a critical problem in mainstreaming herbology. German companies manipulate concentration levels to comply with their federal law which is geared towrds safe and effective dosage. It would actually cost them more to refine these herbs or " spike " them with drugs or isolates as is so often insinuated. There are certainly issues of solvents, toxic waste, ecology and corporatism surrounding these products, but these have nothing to do with standardization, per se. We need to focus on these real concerns. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 4, 1999 Report Share Posted September 4, 1999 Todd is correct. I should not have stated 'refined out' other constituents. . . .I should have said tried to standardize the dosage level. I wasn't thinking clearly at the time, I guess. Z'ev >A word about standardized extracts as there is no standard definition of >this term and a lot of misinformation out there right now. First, >standardization simply means that a product has been concentrated to >yield a specific level of a " marker " ingredient in the final product. >No reputable company that I am aware of considers this marker to be the >sole or even the most important constituent of the herb. In fact, all >herb companies make a point of saying that their product is a >synergistic blend of components, not an isolated component. So while it >is true that only large companies have the technology to standardize a >product, it is totally untrue that the typical product from Germany are >essentially drugs that have had most of their normal consitutents >refined away. > >In fact, the typical standardized extract has a full complement of >constituents, while most nonstandardized extracts have little or nothing >in them at all. For example, standardized st john's wort from nature's >plus contains dozens of constituents, which is documented by laboratory >analysis. Not only does it contain .3% hypericin, but everything else >in proportion, as well. Comparison products made " naturally " have been >shown to contain 50 times less of everything, making them essentially >worthless. > >Standardization guarantees potency and reproducibility in dosage, which >is a critical problem in mainstreaming herbology. German companies >manipulate concentration levels to comply with their federal law which >is geared towrds safe and effective dosage. It would actually cost them >more to refine these herbs or " spike " them with drugs or isolates as is >so often insinuated. There are certainly issues of solvents, toxic >waste, ecology and corporatism surrounding these products, but these >have nothing to do with standardization, per se. We need to focus on >these real concerns. > >Todd > > >Received: from mailsorter-102-1.iap.bryant.webtv.net (209.240.198.98) by > postoffice-241.iap.bryant.webtv.net with WTV-SMTP; Fri, 3 Sep 1999 > 13:01:27 -0700 (PDT) >Return-Path: <errors-201013-40-TLuger=webtv.net > >Received: from (pop. [209.207.164.211]) by > mailsorter-102-1.iap.bryant.webtv.net (8.8.8/ms.graham.14Aug97) > with SMTP id NAA08996 for <TLuger; Fri, 3 Sep 1999 > 13:01:25 -0700 (PDT) >Received: (qmail 32385 invoked by alias); 3 Sep 1999 20:01:49 -0000 >Received: (qmail 32376 invoked from network); 3 Sep 1999 20:01:48 -0000 >Received: from unknown (HELO smtp.inreach.com) (209.142.0.6) by > pop. with SMTP; 3 Sep 1999 20:01:48 -0000 >Received: from [209.209.65.62] (209-209-65-197.la.inreach.net > [209.209.65.197]) by smtp.inreach.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id > MAA29319 for < >; Fri, 3 Sep 1999 > 12:46:09 -0700 (PDT) >Message-Id: <v03007803b3f5d74d297c@[209.209.65.62]> >In-<936380901.11822 > >Fri, 3 Sep 1999 12:59:27 -0700 > > " " <zrosenberg >Mailing-List: list ; contact > -owner >Delivered-mailing list >Precedence: bulk >List-Un: <- (AT) ONElist (DOT) com> >Reply-to: >Mime-Version: 1.0 >Content-Type: text/plain; charset= " us-ascii " >Re: herbal research > > " " <zrosenberg > >Dear David, > I am not aware of any websites that have the information in English. . >. .The actual journals can be obtained via mail from Eastwind Books, (415) >772-5899 in San Francisco. . .while in Chinese, there are English abstracts >accompanying them. Also, Blue Poppy Press in Boulder, Colo. translates >this research (1-800-487-9296), and has many articles available of this >type. > > I recently had a meeting with Novartis Research scientists, who would >like to do studies on Chinese herbs. . . .but they again want isolated >extracts to use in mice or test-tube situations. . ..they simply have no >model for examining complex prescriptions at this point. This is a big >problem. > > For example, Compound Q, the momordica extract you mentioned (tian hua >fen, or trichosanthes root), was used in actual trials and underground in >the HIV community, but was found to be toxic to the nervous system, causing >convulsions, etc. No such effects are found when the herb itself is taken. > > > Standardized extracts are another problem. Many herb companies have >standardized their extracts in terms of amounts of herbal material, but >only German companies, as far as I know, have standardized the actual >'active' chemical constituents. . . .usually by refining out other >components. > >, FNAAOM > > > > >>dcrussell >> >>Does anybody know of a good website that would contain scientific papers >>regarding this " successful " research from China? Where I am located right >>now I am unable to get to a TCM school library and so the web is my only >>option. >>In obtaining my B.S. in biology I must give several seminars on a topic of >>my choice; the only requirement being that it is a scientific paper from >>a peer reviewed journal. Last semester I gave a talk on a specific plant >>protein isolated from Momordica charantia (I don't know it's chinese name, >>it is also known as bitter melon) which was utilized to inactivate the HIV >>virus. >>I would prefer to give my next talk on a paper that is based on an herbal >>formula. This is one of the problems with convincing the scientific >>world in the use of herbal medicines. They look for isolated chemicals or >>proteins,etc... while a formula containing up to 15 different herbs would >>be boggling to the reductionists mind in ascertaining what actually caused >>the effect. >>There is even talk out there that the Wesern herbalists remedy >>for such scepticism, standardized extracts, do not actually have the amount >>of standardization they claim to have. >> >>If anyone has some leads on sites or places I could write away to, to >>obtain these papers I would be very interested! >>Thanks, >>David >> >>--------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- >> >>ONElist now has T-SHIRTS! >>For details and to order, go to: >><a href= " http://clickme./ad/tshirt1 " >Click Here</a> >> >>------ >>Chronic Diseases Heal - Chinese Herbs Can Help > > > > >--------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > >ONElist: your connection to online communities. > >------ >Chronic Diseases Heal - Chinese Herbs Can Help Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 4, 1999 Report Share Posted September 4, 1999 Another reply. . . A better example would be a Chinese one. . . .corydalin, a crude drug supposedly refined from yan hu suo/rz. corydalis to a 'pure' drug containing the active ingredient. How safe, toxic or reliable this substance is is anyone's guess. >A word about standardized extracts as there is no standard definition of >this term and a lot of misinformation out there right now. First, >standardization simply means that a product has been concentrated to >yield a specific level of a " marker " ingredient in the final product. >No reputable company that I am aware of considers this marker to be the >sole or even the most important constituent of the herb. In fact, all >herb companies make a point of saying that their product is a >synergistic blend of components, not an isolated component. So while it >is true that only large companies have the technology to standardize a >product, it is totally untrue that the typical product from Germany are >essentially drugs that have had most of their normal consitutents >refined away. > >In fact, the typical standardized extract has a full complement of >constituents, while most nonstandardized extracts have little or nothing >in them at all. For example, standardized st john's wort from nature's >plus contains dozens of constituents, which is documented by laboratory >analysis. Not only does it contain .3% hypericin, but everything else >in proportion, as well. Comparison products made " naturally " have been >shown to contain 50 times less of everything, making them essentially >worthless. > >Standardization guarantees potency and reproducibility in dosage, which >is a critical problem in mainstreaming herbology. German companies >manipulate concentration levels to comply with their federal law which >is geared towrds safe and effective dosage. It would actually cost them >more to refine these herbs or " spike " them with drugs or isolates as is >so often insinuated. There are certainly issues of solvents, toxic >waste, ecology and corporatism surrounding these products, but these >have nothing to do with standardization, per se. We need to focus on >these real concerns. > >Todd > > >Received: from mailsorter-102-1.iap.bryant.webtv.net (209.240.198.98) by > postoffice-241.iap.bryant.webtv.net with WTV-SMTP; Fri, 3 Sep 1999 > 13:01:27 -0700 (PDT) >Return-Path: <errors-201013-40-TLuger=webtv.net > >Received: from (pop. [209.207.164.211]) by > mailsorter-102-1.iap.bryant.webtv.net (8.8.8/ms.graham.14Aug97) > with SMTP id NAA08996 for <TLuger; Fri, 3 Sep 1999 > 13:01:25 -0700 (PDT) >Received: (qmail 32385 invoked by alias); 3 Sep 1999 20:01:49 -0000 >Received: (qmail 32376 invoked from network); 3 Sep 1999 20:01:48 -0000 >Received: from unknown (HELO smtp.inreach.com) (209.142.0.6) by > pop. with SMTP; 3 Sep 1999 20:01:48 -0000 >Received: from [209.209.65.62] (209-209-65-197.la.inreach.net > [209.209.65.197]) by smtp.inreach.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id > MAA29319 for < >; Fri, 3 Sep 1999 > 12:46:09 -0700 (PDT) >Message-Id: <v03007803b3f5d74d297c@[209.209.65.62]> >In-<936380901.11822 > >Fri, 3 Sep 1999 12:59:27 -0700 > > " " <zrosenberg >Mailing-List: list ; contact > -owner >Delivered-mailing list >Precedence: bulk >List-Un: <- (AT) ONElist (DOT) com> >Reply-to: >Mime-Version: 1.0 >Content-Type: text/plain; charset= " us-ascii " >Re: herbal research > > " " <zrosenberg > >Dear David, > I am not aware of any websites that have the information in English. . >. .The actual journals can be obtained via mail from Eastwind Books, (415) >772-5899 in San Francisco. . .while in Chinese, there are English abstracts >accompanying them. Also, Blue Poppy Press in Boulder, Colo. translates >this research (1-800-487-9296), and has many articles available of this >type. > > I recently had a meeting with Novartis Research scientists, who would >like to do studies on Chinese herbs. . . .but they again want isolated >extracts to use in mice or test-tube situations. . ..they simply have no >model for examining complex prescriptions at this point. This is a big >problem. > > For example, Compound Q, the momordica extract you mentioned (tian hua >fen, or trichosanthes root), was used in actual trials and underground in >the HIV community, but was found to be toxic to the nervous system, causing >convulsions, etc. No such effects are found when the herb itself is taken. > > > Standardized extracts are another problem. Many herb companies have >standardized their extracts in terms of amounts of herbal material, but >only German companies, as far as I know, have standardized the actual >'active' chemical constituents. . . .usually by refining out other >components. > >, FNAAOM > > > > >>dcrussell >> >>Does anybody know of a good website that would contain scientific papers >>regarding this " successful " research from China? Where I am located right >>now I am unable to get to a TCM school library and so the web is my only >>option. >>In obtaining my B.S. in biology I must give several seminars on a topic of >>my choice; the only requirement being that it is a scientific paper from >>a peer reviewed journal. Last semester I gave a talk on a specific plant >>protein isolated from Momordica charantia (I don't know it's chinese name, >>it is also known as bitter melon) which was utilized to inactivate the HIV >>virus. >>I would prefer to give my next talk on a paper that is based on an herbal >>formula. This is one of the problems with convincing the scientific >>world in the use of herbal medicines. They look for isolated chemicals or >>proteins,etc... while a formula containing up to 15 different herbs would >>be boggling to the reductionists mind in ascertaining what actually caused >>the effect. >>There is even talk out there that the Wesern herbalists remedy >>for such scepticism, standardized extracts, do not actually have the amount >>of standardization they claim to have. >> >>If anyone has some leads on sites or places I could write away to, to >>obtain these papers I would be very interested! >>Thanks, >>David >> >>--------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- >> >>ONElist now has T-SHIRTS! >>For details and to order, go to: >><a href= " http://clickme./ad/tshirt1 " >Click Here</a> >> >>------ >>Chronic Diseases Heal - Chinese Herbs Can Help > > > > >--------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > >ONElist: your connection to online communities. > >------ >Chronic Diseases Heal - Chinese Herbs Can Help Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 5, 1999 Report Share Posted September 5, 1999 Let's be sure we are talking about the same thing, here. A standardized extract is not the same as an isolate or fraction. Isolates or fractions are similar or identical to drugs, many of which are still derived directly from plants. So corydalin is definitely a drug with inherent safety risks, but standardized corydalis is is a full spectrum herb with a guaranteed level of corydalin. This allows you to know that one dose of corydalis extract will have a similar potency to the next and so on. But it is not an isolate and has no greater risk of side effects than the crude herb. If one prefers to use bulk herbs and one has some expertise in the area of herb evaluation, you can control the qualtiy of your prescription by selecting only fresh looking, properly colored, not moldy, potent smelling ingredients. But what if you do not fill your own formulae, or order yourown bulk herbs or rely on a cokpany to do this process for you. How do you know who to trust? KPC granules doesn't standardize their products, but they test all batches for minimum levels of active ingredients. Without this assurance, how could I know if the herbs were of good quality? Correct standardization of whole herbs, not isolation of drugs, is an actually an important issue for the whole herbal industry to consider. Anythng less is irresponsible to our patients, unless each herbalist is also a fully trained herbal pharmacist and uses only bulk herbs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 5, 1999 Report Share Posted September 5, 1999 I agree on the issues of dosage standardization. Corydalin is an isolate, not an herbal extract, making it technically a drug. >Let's be sure we are talking about the same thing, here. A standardized >extract is not the same as an isolate or fraction. Isolates or >fractions are similar or identical to drugs, many of which are still >derived directly from plants. So corydalin is definitely a drug with >inherent safety risks, but standardized corydalis is is a full spectrum >herb with a guaranteed level of corydalin. This allows you to know that >one dose of corydalis extract will have a similar potency to the next >and so on. But it is not an isolate and has no greater risk of side >effects than the crude herb. > >If one prefers to use bulk herbs and one has some expertise in the area >of herb evaluation, you can control the qualtiy of your prescription by >selecting only fresh looking, properly colored, not moldy, potent >smelling ingredients. But what if you do not fill your own formulae, or >order yourown bulk herbs or rely on a cokpany to do this process for >you. How do you know who to trust? KPC granules doesn't standardize >their products, but they test all batches for minimum levels of active >ingredients. Without this assurance, how could I know if the herbs were >of good quality? Correct standardization of whole herbs, not isolation >of drugs, is an actually an important issue for the whole herbal >industry to consider. Anythng less is irresponsible to our patients, >unless each herbalist is also a fully trained herbal pharmacist and uses >only bulk herbs. > >Todd > > >Received: from mailsorter-101-4.iap.bryant.webtv.net (209.240.198.29) by > postoffice-241.iap.bryant.webtv.net with WTV-SMTP; Sat, 4 Sep 1999 > 20:15:15 -0700 (PDT) >Return-Path: <errors-201013-48-TLuger=webtv.net > >Received: from (pop. [209.207.135.229]) by > mailsorter-101-4.iap.bryant.webtv.net (8.8.8/ms.graham.14Aug97) > with SMTP id UAA02302 for <TLuger; Sat, 4 Sep 1999 > 20:15:15 -0700 (PDT) >Received: (qmail 5995 invoked by alias); 5 Sep 1999 03:14:29 -0000 >Received: (qmail 5984 invoked from network); 5 Sep 1999 03:14:27 -0000 >Received: from unknown (HELO smtp.inreach.com) (209.142.0.6) by > pop. with SMTP; 5 Sep 1999 03:14:27 -0000 >Received: from [209.209.65.119] (209-209-65-119.la.inreach.net > [209.209.65.119]) by smtp.inreach.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id > UAA13991 for < >; Sat, 4 Sep 1999 > 20:00:00 -0700 (PDT) >Message-Id: <v03007804b3f7902b54b3@[209.209.65.119]> >In-<628-37D19F0B-14561 >References: " " <zrosenberg's message of >Fri, 3 Sep 1999 12:59:27 -0700 >Sat, 4 Sep 1999 20:14:26 -0700 > > " " <zrosenberg >Mailing-List: list ; contact > -owner >Delivered-mailing list >Precedence: bulk >List-Un: <- (AT) ONElist (DOT) com> >Reply-to: >Mime-Version: 1.0 >Content-Type: text/plain; charset= " us-ascii " >Re: herbal research > > " " <zrosenberg > >Another reply. . . >A better example would be a Chinese one. . . .corydalin, a crude drug >supposedly refined from yan hu suo/rz. corydalis to a 'pure' drug >containing the active ingredient. How safe, toxic or reliable this >substance is is anyone's guess. > > > > > >>A word about standardized extracts as there is no standard definition of >>this term and a lot of misinformation out there right now. First, >>standardization simply means that a product has been concentrated to >>yield a specific level of a " marker " ingredient in the final product. >>No reputable company that I am aware of considers this marker to be the >>sole or even the most important constituent of the herb. In fact, all >>herb companies make a point of saying that their product is a >>synergistic blend of components, not an isolated component. So while it >>is true that only large companies have the technology to standardize a >>product, it is totally untrue that the typical product from Germany are >>essentially drugs that have had most of their normal consitutents >>refined away. >> >>In fact, the typical standardized extract has a full complement of >>constituents, while most nonstandardized extracts have little or nothing >>in them at all. For example, standardized st john's wort from nature's >>plus contains dozens of constituents, which is documented by laboratory >>analysis. Not only does it contain .3% hypericin, but everything else >>in proportion, as well. Comparison products made " naturally " have been >>shown to contain 50 times less of everything, making them essentially >>worthless. >> >>Standardization guarantees potency and reproducibility in dosage, which >>is a critical problem in mainstreaming herbology. German companies >>manipulate concentration levels to comply with their federal law which >>is geared towrds safe and effective dosage. It would actually cost them >>more to refine these herbs or " spike " them with drugs or isolates as is >>so often insinuated. There are certainly issues of solvents, toxic >>waste, ecology and corporatism surrounding these products, but these >>have nothing to do with standardization, per se. We need to focus on >>these real concerns. >> >>Todd >> >> >>Received: from mailsorter-102-1.iap.bryant.webtv.net (209.240.198.98) by >> postoffice-241.iap.bryant.webtv.net with WTV-SMTP; Fri, 3 Sep 1999 >> 13:01:27 -0700 (PDT) >>Return-Path: <errors-201013-40-TLuger=webtv.net > >>Received: from (pop. [209.207.164.211]) by >> mailsorter-102-1.iap.bryant.webtv.net (8.8.8/ms.graham.14Aug97) >> with SMTP id NAA08996 for <TLuger; Fri, 3 Sep 1999 >> 13:01:25 -0700 (PDT) >>Received: (qmail 32385 invoked by alias); 3 Sep 1999 20:01:49 -0000 >>Received: (qmail 32376 invoked from network); 3 Sep 1999 20:01:48 -0000 >>Received: from unknown (HELO smtp.inreach.com) (209.142.0.6) by >> pop. with SMTP; 3 Sep 1999 20:01:48 -0000 >>Received: from [209.209.65.62] (209-209-65-197.la.inreach.net >> [209.209.65.197]) by smtp.inreach.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id >> MAA29319 for < >; Fri, 3 Sep 1999 >> 12:46:09 -0700 (PDT) >>Message-Id: <v03007803b3f5d74d297c@[209.209.65.62]> >>In-<936380901.11822 > >>Fri, 3 Sep 1999 12:59:27 -0700 >> >> " " <zrosenberg >>Mailing-List: list ; contact >> -owner >>Delivered-mailing list >>Precedence: bulk >>List-Un: <- (AT) ONElist (DOT) com> >>Reply-to: >>Mime-Version: 1.0 >>Content-Type: text/plain; charset= " us-ascii " >>Re: herbal research >> >> " " <zrosenberg >> >>Dear David, >> I am not aware of any websites that have the information in English. . >>. .The actual journals can be obtained via mail from Eastwind Books, (415) >>772-5899 in San Francisco. . .while in Chinese, there are English abstracts >>accompanying them. Also, Blue Poppy Press in Boulder, Colo. translates >>this research (1-800-487-9296), and has many articles available of this >>type. >> >> I recently had a meeting with Novartis Research scientists, who would >>like to do studies on Chinese herbs. . . .but they again want isolated >>extracts to use in mice or test-tube situations. . ..they simply have no >>model for examining complex prescriptions at this point. This is a big >>problem. >> >> For example, Compound Q, the momordica extract you mentioned (tian hua >>fen, or trichosanthes root), was used in actual trials and underground in >>the HIV community, but was found to be toxic to the nervous system, causing >>convulsions, etc. No such effects are found when the herb itself is taken. >> >> >> Standardized extracts are another problem. Many herb companies have >>standardized their extracts in terms of amounts of herbal material, but >>only German companies, as far as I know, have standardized the actual >>'active' chemical constituents. . . .usually by refining out other >>components. >> >>, FNAAOM >> >> >> >> >>>dcrussell >>> >>>Does anybody know of a good website that would contain scientific papers >>>regarding this " successful " research from China? Where I am located right >>>now I am unable to get to a TCM school library and so the web is my only >>>option. >>>In obtaining my B.S. in biology I must give several seminars on a topic of >>>my choice; the only requirement being that it is a scientific paper from >>>a peer reviewed journal. Last semester I gave a talk on a specific plant >>>protein isolated from Momordica charantia (I don't know it's chinese name, >>>it is also known as bitter melon) which was utilized to inactivate the HIV >>>virus. >>>I would prefer to give my next talk on a paper that is based on an herbal >>>formula. This is one of the problems with convincing the scientific >>>world in the use of herbal medicines. They look for isolated chemicals or >>>proteins,etc... while a formula containing up to 15 different herbs would >>>be boggling to the reductionists mind in ascertaining what actually caused >>>the effect. >>>There is even talk out there that the Wesern herbalists remedy >>>for such scepticism, standardized extracts, do not actually have the amount >>>of standardization they claim to have. >>> >>>If anyone has some leads on sites or places I could write away to, to >>>obtain these papers I would be very interested! >>>Thanks, >>>David >>> >>>--------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- >>> >>>ONElist now has T-SHIRTS! >>>For details and to order, go to: >>><a href= " http://clickme./ad/tshirt1 " >Click Here</a> >>> >>>------ >>>Chronic Diseases Heal - Chinese Herbs Can Help >> >> >> >> >>--------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- >> >>ONElist: your connection to online communities. >> >>------ >>Chronic Diseases Heal - Chinese Herbs Can Help > > > > >--------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > >ONElist members: don't miss out on the latest news at ONElist >Join our community member news update at ><a href= " http://clickme./ad/newsletter5 " >Click Here</a> > >------ >Chronic Diseases Heal - Chinese Herbs Can Help Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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