[Fwd: [classroom] antibiotic, vaccines, prions and the qi mech]

[Guest guest]

An interesting debate on vaccines from a TCM perspective taken from my

online class

 

" " <zrosenberg

 

 

>

>vaccines, as zev has pointed out, could be understood as turbidity being

>directed right into the blood, bypassing the external wei and/or the gi

>tract separation function. most vaccines are made from viruses, which

>are just DNA or RNA wrapped in a protein coat. it is only when viruses

>take over the cellular apparatus that disease occurs and such diseases

>tend to be much more virulent in those with weakened immune systems. in

>fact, many viruses, when acquired naturally, may confer lifelong

>immunity to diseases associated with said virus. it is very possible

>that viruses may have been the source of DNA for all life on this

>planet. so are viruses inherently turbid.

 

Like any other phenomenon in nature, there is xie qi/pathogenic qi and

zheng qi/correct qi. In any kingdom, a substance can be correct, another

pathogenic. A substance can be in either category, depending on the

state of the host/pathogen interaction. The Nei jing speaks of xu

xie/vacuity pathogen and zheng xie/correct pathogen. This means that a

correct pathogen is a strong pathogen that truly assaults the person,

whereas a vacuity pathogen means primarily the defensive and correct qi are

vacuous. Practically speaking, an allergy to dust or morning chill is a

vacuity pathogen, an epidemic influenza a correct pathogen.

 

In terms of reactions to vaccines, George Vithoulkas is correct as far as

the in-the-moment response is concerned. However, combination vaccines

complicate the issue greatly, greatly taxing the body's ability to respond.

 

As far as turbidity goes, some viruses (or bacteria) may generate the

environment of damp heat as part of their toxicity, or there may be

preexisting damp-heat. Both directions are possible.

>

>bacteria adapt by sharing genetic fragments with each other, the

>incorporation of which is analogous to viral incorporation in human cell

>DNA. so perhaps viruses do their dirty work in a turbid environment,

>but remain harmless otherwise. the same may be true for vaccines.

>George Vithoulkas, the homeopath, has even suggested that those with

>strong vital forces actually throw off the vaccine completely, getting

>neither superficial immunity or longterm side-effects. if a viral DNA

>from a vaccine incorporates itself into a cell, then something was wrong

>with zheng qi already. the vaccine should cause an immune response

>without incorporation. I would argue that this is what happens in most

>cases and that may be one factor why autoimmune disease is still

>relatively rare. We also have to reconcile something that was not

>accounted for in TCM which is that the zheng qi remembers past insults.

 

Having seen enough children whose health has been compromised, I tend to

disagree. Allergies, for example are seen by many health professionals as

the first stage of auto-immune disorders. Also, cancer and diabetes are

often classed as auto-immune disorders as well.

>

>Also, many bacteria do important functions for our bodies; we have more

>bacteria in us than human cells. our mitochondria came from bacteria.

>the challenges presented to us by microorganisms and viruses are thus

>more complex than turbidity. they are part of our coevolution on this

>planet.

>

>one thing we can be sure is that vaccines stimulate some aspect of wei

>or zheng qi. perhaps this constant stimulation is iatrogenic when

>unnecessary or perhaps it inherently depletes the kidneys like ma huang,

>for example. this kidney depletion from multiple vaccinations could

>also lead to autoimmune tendencies. so perhaps it is the stimulating

>effect of vaccines on the kidneys that set up later disease, rather than

>the introduction of turbidity. Disease products containing the virus,

>like pus from lesions, is definitely turbid, but few, if any vaccines,

>are made this way. so I am not sure we can call vaccines a turbid evil,

>per se.

 

A very good discussion in the Chinese literature is the chapter " On Pox

Planting " in Xu Da-cun's " Forgotten Traditions of Ancient Chinese

Medicine " , Unschuld translation. He indicates that children who receive

the dried purified pox fluid as vaccine must be healthy, and that it should

be given at a time when the weather is stable, warm and balanced. He also

indicates that the external pathogen creates the (small)pox by resonating

with internal toxins hidden inthe blood and viscera.

>

>Antibiotics definitely fit in as cold bitter herbs that harm the spleen

>and zheng qi; with weakened zheng qi from this overuse, superbugs easily

>cause horrendous diseases. While overprescribed here, this is

>especially a problem in third world countries where antibiotics can be

>bought by laypeople without prescription.

>

>Prions seem to have a mixture of viral DNA and abnormal protein

>conglomerations. Given the nature of the diseases caused by prions,

>they seem to be a toxin leading to phlegm-fire. whether that toxin is

>the virus or viral products is an interesting question, but does not

>affect our dx. Prionic diseases seem to be related to gross insults to

>nature: feeding meat to herbivores most certainly would lead to dampheat

>toxin and phlegm, don't you think?

 

I would be interested in more info on prions and disease.

 

 

 

Post message: classroom Subscribe:

classroom- Un: classroom-

List owner: classroom-owner URL to this page:

/community/classroom