Guest guest Posted April 2, 2000 Report Share Posted April 2, 2000 I thought Miriam Lee's comments in a quote from Michael Tierra on another professional list might be of interest. (Quoted with permission). <<Actually, at the time of the Yellow Emperor he made an attempt to codify Chinese medicine. His method was draconian as typical of the times. He forcefully, required under penalty of death that all the individual practitioners of China forfeit their knowledge to the common cause. Those who didn't were killed. There was a huge destruction of previous experience and knowledge as books that were not in agreement with his mandates were destroyed. Many individual doctors each with their own style of treatment and with philosophies not necessarily in accord with yin-yang doctrine tried to preserve their knowledge in the family lineage. To do this the knowledge was only passed down the male line. I learned of this from Miriam Lee who learn the Tang style acupuncture from Dr. Tang. They used many of the familiar points but not necessarily as part of the meridians nor as part of the standardized use described in most acupuncture texts. Her approach is very symptom based. As for herbs, Li Shi Shen dedicated his entire life collecting folk uses of a huge sum of herbs, many if not most of which are used by western herbalists. Again, these herbs were not necessarily used according to the " official " model or system but symptomatically. The set used by TCM doctors are certainly among the most powerful and well codified herbs of Chinese medicine but one will still find doctors in San Francisco who use their favorite herbs derived from their lineage and culture. Finally, as Ted Kaptchuk discovered the majority of Chinese medicine up to recent times was shamanism and herbs were also used shamanistically. One will never know everything about Chinese medicine regardless of how much study or reading in the classics. Fortunately there will still be that interesting individual down the street who has found a peculiar use for a plant. I might add that Chinese medicine may appear to be a fixed entity to many but it is evolving each year with the introduction of herbs from other countries, medical treatments, diagnosis, etc. I think the requirements of the AHG are perfectly adequate for the present level of evolution of herbal medicine in North America. I think there is such a thing as too many requirements. This fosters a stilted feeling where anyone who hasn't had the requisite 'upteem' number of years should not use herbs. Herbal medicine is first and foremost an empirical science (if you can call it that). The entire discipline is maintained and nourished by common people's experience not experts and codifiers. Students need to be trained so that they have a certain level of competence and are aware and respectful of the dangers involved then everyone should be encouraged to gather their own experience Michael Tierra.>> Karen Vaughan CreationsGarden *************************************** Email advice is not a substitute for medical treatment. We walk in the footsteps of those who came before us, leaving paths for others to follow... ______________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 3, 2000 Report Share Posted April 3, 2000 " If you want an interesting look at pre-Nei Jing medicine, check out " Early Chinese Medical Literature: the Mawangdui Medical Manuscripts " , translated by Donald Harper, Kegan Paul International Press, London. " Thanks Zev, I'll look that up. We've had our share of historical draconian purges in the west too. Karen Vaughan CreationsGarden *************************************** Email advice is not a substitute for medical treatment. We walk in the footsteps of those who came before us, leaving paths for others to follow... ______________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 3, 2000 Report Share Posted April 3, 2000 Dear Karen, I'd be a bit skeptical of such a sweeping statement as this about Huang Di and his actions. . . ..check historical sources (I doubt there are any in English) about his 'draconian method'. It is easy to make such emotional, sweeping statements about a historical entity about which we know little. While it certainly is true that there are many streams of medical practice within the culture of China, it is doubtful that the Nei Jing was an AMA-like attempt to suppress alternative approaches to yin-yang medicine. Paul Unschuld actually states in " Medicine of China " that it was a compilation of material that was developed over an extended period of time from several sources. If you want an interesting look at pre-Nei Jing medicine, check out " Early Chinese Medical Literature: the Mawangdui Medical Manuscripts " , translated by Donald Harper, Kegan Paul International Press, London. Redwing and Amazon have it. >I thought Miriam Lee's comments in a quote from Michael Tierra on another >professional list might be of interest. >(Quoted with permission). > ><<Actually, at the time of the Yellow Emperor he made an attempt to >codify >Chinese medicine. His method was draconian as typical of the times. He >forcefully, required under penalty of death that all the individual >practitioners of China forfeit their knowledge to the common cause. Those >who didn't were killed. There was a huge destruction of previous >experience >and knowledge as books that were not in agreement with his mandates were >destroyed. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 5, 2000 Report Share Posted April 5, 2000 Zev, Do you Know if PCOM has a copy of this text in the library? It sounds like a very interesting read. Thanks, Shelly Krahn, L.Ac > " " <zrosenberg > > >Re: Classics >Mon, 3 Apr 2000 08:43:05 -0700 > >Dear Karen, > I'd be a bit skeptical of such a sweeping statement as this about >Huang >Di and his actions. . . ..check historical sources (I doubt there are any >in English) about his 'draconian method'. It is easy to make such >emotional, sweeping statements about a historical entity about which we >know little. While it certainly is true that there are many streams of >medical practice within the culture of China, it is doubtful that the Nei >Jing was an AMA-like attempt to suppress alternative approaches to yin-yang >medicine. Paul Unschuld actually states in " Medicine of China " that it was >a compilation of material that was developed over an extended period of >time from several sources. If you want an interesting look at pre-Nei Jing >medicine, check out " Early Chinese Medical Literature: the Mawangdui >Medical Manuscripts " , translated by Donald Harper, Kegan Paul International >Press, London. Redwing and Amazon have it. >I thought Miriam Lee's comments in a quote from Michael Tierra on another > >professional list might be of interest. > >(Quoted with permission). > > > ><<Actually, at the time of the Yellow Emperor he made an attempt to > >codify > >Chinese medicine. His method was draconian as typical of the times. He > >forcefully, required under penalty of death that all the individual > >practitioners of China forfeit their knowledge to the common cause. Those > >who didn't were killed. There was a huge destruction of previous > >experience > >and knowledge as books that were not in agreement with his mandates were > >destroyed. > > > > ____ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 5, 2000 Report Share Posted April 5, 2000 No, it's not. You have to order it from Redwing. Z'ev >Zev, >Do you Know if PCOM has a copy of this text in the library? It sounds like a >very interesting read. Thanks, Shelly Krahn, L.Ac > >> " " <zrosenberg >> >> >>Re: Classics >>Mon, 3 Apr 2000 08:43:05 -0700 >> >>Dear Karen, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 9, 2000 Report Share Posted April 9, 2000 (I apologize for responding so late, but have been out of town and am catching up on all the discussions) As to the Chinese language, when I knew I was to go for a masters in TCM, I spent the entire prior year in daily Chinese classes at the local college. In school, although not required, I continued to learn a little conversational, but mainly medical chinese. I was the only one in my class who studied the names of herbs and formulas in characters, and half of my class notes are written in medical chinese characters. Yes, this slowed my herbal learning somewhat, but insignificantly in comparison to the benefits. In practice, I have found this to be invaluable, even for the little things like being able to decipher which herbs have been sent from the wholesaler, for the Latin does not always match. Learning the language (and no, medial chinese is not truly considered to be learning the language) but it has nevertheless enabled me to skim through a list of ingredients much more quickly in character format than in Latin. As to the classics, it is still extremely difficult, but with the help of the Matthew's dictionary, it is certainly not impossible. I could never even attempt this were it not for the thousands of hours spent in this endeavor, and I am grateful to have received the foresight and perserverence to have taken this on. Enough said. Gina Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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