Jump to content
IndiaDivine.org

spagyric

Rate this topic


Guest guest

Recommended Posts

Guest guest

Hi James,

 

You really have my attention now (as a member of the list) with the spagryic

tinctures and your " fibonacci series " tinctures.

 

I always wanted to explore Spagyric tinctures of TCM formulas, but the

incredible difficulty (at least according to the published methods) has kept

me from pursuing it.

 

Do you have any more information (at least information you would be willing

to share [oh lord, not the dreaded " Chinese Secret Formula " business again I

hope (g)]), on the available alchemical tinctures, and where to get them, and

on your innovative " fibonacci tincts " ?

 

Thanks in advance for any info you can share on them, and on your

experience's in using them.

 

Thanks,

 

Bruce Canning, OMD, L.Ac.

 

 

 

 

---------------------------Original

Message------------

In a message dated 04/18/2000 10:34:59 PM Pacific Daylight Time,

OMJournal writes:

 

<< Subj: spagyric

04/18/2000 10:34:59 PM Pacific Daylight Time

OMJournal

Reply-to: <A HREF= " " >

@</A>

 

Dear Gilbert:

 

Do you have any spagyric formulas made with individual herbs or

Chinese formulas for sale or trade?

 

I have several types of samples of Chinese formulas, if you'd like to

try some, made by an alchemist using his own specially prepared

solvents, using low temperature and vacuum methods of extraction.

Doses are only a few drops.

 

I've been making my own formulas according to the Fibonacci sequence,

using Spring Wind concentrates. Even classical formulas seem to work

better this way.

 

 

James Ramholz

Oriental Medicine Journal

 

 

 

 

 

 

, " Gilbert Arnold "

<ArnoldG@E...> wrote:

> Hi ,

>

> My name is Gilbert Arnold; I am a trade and marketing officer for

the Canadian Government. Herbs and their products are among my

responsibilities.

>

> I am also a former benedictine monk trained to make spagyric

pharmaceutical and herbal preparations any thing from antibiotics to

Hawthorne tinctures. We also made beer and wine. I have as a hobby,

a fully equipped lab.

>

> I also have about 3000 hours of training in acupuncture, shiatsu

and tuina. I can do pulse diagnosis. Unfortunately, I never learnt

about the medicinal use of herbs to any serious extent.

>

> In my travels to martial arts seminars I met and treated (for

aches, pains and injuries) practitioners of tcm who got me interested

in tcm herbs. I applied western and ayurvedic preparation technology

to some of the less palatable decoctions and, according to these

physicians, the things worked better, probably by increasing patient

compliance.

>

> My academic background include a degree and professional

registration in engineering, degrees in agriculture and general

science, theology and chemical technology.

>

> Having noted a shift in Chinese agricultural production following

their reception of a world bank loan, I have begun to work (as a

hobby) on growing Chinese herbs in North America.

>

> In order to alleviate my ignorance about herbs, but without wanting

to hang out a shingle, I was thinking of purchasing the following;

>

> Advance Textbook on Traditional

and Pharmacology, Vol. I

History - Basic Theory -

Diagnostics, Vol. II

Pharmacy - Prescription , Vol. III Internal

Medicine Vol. IV

Acupuncture and Moxibustion shown at http://www.china-

guide.com/tcm/advanced.html. I'd would appreciate opinions on these

texts.

>

> I am looking for a good book on Chinese herbal processing and

chemical make up of Chinese herbs.

>

> Gilbert Arnold P.Eng.

> http://www.agr.ca/cgi-bin/misb/whoswho/empdet/l=0/s=99/e=1916

 

 

------

You can win $1000!

Time-limited offer. Enter today at:

http://click./1/2864/6/_/542111/_/956122482/

------

 

Chronic Diseases Heal - Chinese Herbs Can Help

 

 

 

----------------------- Headers --------------------------------

Return-Path: <sentto-201013-766-GRCanning=aol.com (AT) returns (DOT) >

Received: from rly-yg02.mx.aol.com (rly-yg02.mail.aol.com [172.18.147.2])

by air-yg05.mail.aol.com (v70.20) with ESMTP; Wed, 19 Apr 2000 01:34:59 -0400

Received: from mr. (mr. [208.50.144.80]) by

rly-yg02.mx.aol.com (v71.10) with ESMTP; Wed, 19 Apr 2000 01:34:48 -0400

X-eGroups-Return: sentto-201013-766-GRCanning=aol.com (AT) returns (DOT)

Received: from [10.1.10.37] by mr. with NNFMP; 19 Apr 2000

05:34:42 -0000

Received: (qmail 24949 invoked from network); 19 Apr 2000 05:34:41 -0000

Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by m3.onelist.org with QMQP; 19 Apr 2000

05:34:41 -0000

Received: from unknown (HELO qh.) (10.1.2.28) by mta2 with SMTP;

19 Apr 2000 05:34:41 -0000

Received: (qmail 20854 invoked from network); 19 Apr 2000 05:34:41 -0000

Received: from n8.onelist.org (HELO fk.) (10.1.10.47) by

iqh. with SMTP; 19 Apr 2000 05:34:41 -0000

X-eGroups-Return: OMJournal

Received: from [10.1.10.117] by fk. with NNFMP; 19 Apr 2000

05:34:41 -0000

Message-ID: <8djgh9+9kmb (AT) eGroups (DOT) com>

User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82

X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster

MIME-Version: 1.0

Mailing-List: list ; contact

-owner

Delivered-mailing list

Precedence: bulk

List-Un: <->

Wed, 19 Apr 2000 05:34:33 -0000

X-eGroups-OMJournal

OMJournal

spagyric

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

>>

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest guest

Dear Gilbert:

 

Do you have any spagyric formulas made with individual herbs or

Chinese formulas for sale or trade?

 

I have several types of samples of Chinese formulas, if you'd like to

try some, made by an alchemist using his own specially prepared

solvents, using low temperature and vacuum methods of extraction.

Doses are only a few drops.

 

I've been making my own formulas according to the Fibonacci sequence,

using Spring Wind concentrates. Even classical formulas seem to work

better this way.

 

 

James Ramholz

Oriental Medicine Journal

 

 

 

 

 

 

, " Gilbert Arnold "

<ArnoldG@E...> wrote:

> Hi ,

>

> My name is Gilbert Arnold; I am a trade and marketing officer for

the Canadian Government. Herbs and their products are among my

responsibilities.

>

> I am also a former benedictine monk trained to make spagyric

pharmaceutical and herbal preparations any thing from antibiotics to

Hawthorne tinctures. We also made beer and wine. I have as a hobby,

a fully equipped lab.

>

> I also have about 3000 hours of training in acupuncture, shiatsu

and tuina. I can do pulse diagnosis. Unfortunately, I never learnt

about the medicinal use of herbs to any serious extent.

>

> In my travels to martial arts seminars I met and treated (for

aches, pains and injuries) practitioners of tcm who got me interested

in tcm herbs. I applied western and ayurvedic preparation technology

to some of the less palatable decoctions and, according to these

physicians, the things worked better, probably by increasing patient

compliance.

>

> My academic background include a degree and professional

registration in engineering, degrees in agriculture and general

science, theology and chemical technology.

>

> Having noted a shift in Chinese agricultural production following

their reception of a world bank loan, I have begun to work (as a

hobby) on growing Chinese herbs in North America.

>

> In order to alleviate my ignorance about herbs, but without wanting

to hang out a shingle, I was thinking of purchasing the following;

>

> Advance Textbook on Traditional

and Pharmacology, Vol. I

History - Basic Theory -

Diagnostics, Vol. II

Pharmacy - Prescription , Vol. III Internal

Medicine Vol. IV

Acupuncture and Moxibustion shown at http://www.china-

guide.com/tcm/advanced.html. I'd would appreciate opinions on these

texts.

>

> I am looking for a good book on Chinese herbal processing and

chemical make up of Chinese herbs.

>

> Gilbert Arnold P.Eng.

> http://www.agr.ca/cgi-bin/misb/whoswho/empdet/l=0/s=99/e=1916

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest guest

Hi James,

 

Thanks for the reply, and no, I did not catch the concept of using powdered

herbs in your " fibonacci series " formulas.

 

Personally, I prefer powdered extracts for convenience, simplicity, pt.

compliance and also from a " cleanliness " , and safety stand point.

 

My math is rusty, but I do remember something about the series being similar

to the the golden mean ratios, or prime # series, so is your series then

broken down along the line of King= x,

Minister=.75x

Adjuvant=.5 x, etc, or???

 

Also I understand that the spagyric's are expensive and difficult to prepare,

but from my (quite limited) understanding, they should be capable of being

used in a almost homeopathic dosing (i.e. 2-3 drops sublingual tis/qid) for

difficult cases, etc. Sounds as though that is how you were describing

utilizing them as well.

 

I mean when you get right down to it, TCM is based on alchemy, so alchemical

tinctures (even from a western discipline) should be something that could be

quite useful for difficult cases, especially when combined with some of the

more subtle diagnostic regimines.

 

Any way, enough of my ramble for now.

 

talk w/ you later ,

 

Bruce

 

 

------------------------------Original

Messages-------

 

------------------------

In a message dated 04/19/2000 9:37:52 PM Pacific Daylight Time,

OMJournal writes:

 

<< Subj: Re: spagyric

04/19/2000 9:37:52 PM Pacific Daylight Time

OMJournal (James Ramholz)

Reply-to: <A HREF= " " >

@</A>

 

Thanks for your interest. I probably wasn't clear, though. The

fibonacci series is a mathematical series that I prepare regular

classical formulas according to, using concentrated powders and not

in spagryic tinctures. I studied with a Korean and they often use

different proportions in their formulas. So I've been playing around

with the idea of the fibonacci series and golden mean.

 

Interestingly, several Hua To formulas use the golden mean ratio (I

like to base my formulas on his work). The Hua To Ginseng formula in

my book is one example where he using the golden mean (probably

unintentionally).

 

A friend makes alchemical tinctures of Chinese formulas using some

spagyric methodologies but primarily done in vacuum at low

temperature. The key is using specialized solvents. For example, he

does the alchemical wine work (repeated distillations) for one of the

bases. After distillation, the formulas then are separated and

centrifuged to remove unwanted oils, resins, and gunk. The formulas

aren't necessarily secret, but the extraction process is difficult,

labor-intensive, and expensive. The retail price was about $1000 an

ounce for the finished product. So only a few clients could afford

them. His lab isn't set up now, but I hope when he relocates more

research can be done.

 

I used one or two of the alchemical tinctures instead of moxa for

cancer cases, chronic fatigue, and MS with very good results. I

tracked the changes created with the tincture by watching their

pulses. It added a lot of energy and by-passed the GI tract by being

absorbed under the tongue.

 

 

 

>

> Hi James,

>

> You really have my attention now (as a member of the list) with the

spagryic

> tinctures and your " fibonacci series " tinctures.

>

> I always wanted to explore Spagyric tinctures of TCM formulas, but

the

> incredible difficulty (at least according to the published methods)

has

kept

> me from pursuing it.

>

> Do you have any more information (at least information you would be

willing

> to share [oh lord, not the dreaded " Chinese Secret Formula "

business again

I

> hope (g)]), on the available alchemical tinctures, and where to get

them,

and

> on your innovative " fibonacci tincts " ?

>

> Thanks in advance for any info you can share on them, and on your

> experience's in using them.

>

> Thanks,

>

> Bruce Canning, OMD, L.Ac.

>

>

>

> --

------

----

> ---------------------------Original

> Message------------

> In a message dated 04/18/2000 10:34:59 PM Pacific Daylight Time,

> OMJournal writes:

>

> << Subj: spagyric

> 04/18/2000 10:34:59 PM Pacific Daylight Time

> OMJournal

> Reply-to: <A HREF= " " >chineseherbacad

emy

> @</A>

>

>

> Dear Gilbert:

>

> Do you have any spagyric formulas made with individual herbs or

> Chinese formulas for sale or trade?

>

> I have several types of samples of Chinese formulas, if you'd like

to

> try some, made by an alchemist using his own specially prepared

> solvents, using low temperature and vacuum methods of extraction.

> Doses are only a few drops.

>

> I've been making my own formulas according to the Fibonacci

sequence,

> using Spring Wind concentrates. Even classical formulas seem to

work

> better this way.

>

>

> James Ramholz

> Oriental Medicine Journal

>

>

>

>

>

>

> , " Gilbert Arnold "

> <ArnoldG@E...> wrote:

> > Hi ,

> >

> > My name is Gilbert Arnold; I am a trade and marketing officer for

> the Canadian Government. Herbs and their products are among my

> responsibilities.

> >

> > I am also a former benedictine monk trained to make spagyric

> pharmaceutical and herbal preparations any thing from antibiotics

to

> Hawthorne tinctures. We also made beer and wine. I have as a

hobby,

> a fully equipped lab.

> >

> > I also have about 3000 hours of training in acupuncture, shiatsu

> and tuina. I can do pulse diagnosis. Unfortunately, I never learnt

> about the medicinal use of herbs to any serious extent.

> >

> > In my travels to martial arts seminars I met and treated (for

> aches, pains and injuries) practitioners of tcm who got me

interested

> in tcm herbs. I applied western and ayurvedic preparation

technology

> to some of the less palatable decoctions and, according to these

> physicians, the things worked better, probably by increasing

patient

> compliance.

> >

> > My academic background include a degree and professional

> registration in engineering, degrees in agriculture and general

> science, theology and chemical technology.

> >

> > Having noted a shift in Chinese agricultural production following

> their reception of a world bank loan, I have begun to work (as a

> hobby) on growing Chinese herbs in North America.

> >

> > In order to alleviate my ignorance about herbs, but without

wanting

> to hang out a shingle, I was thinking of purchasing the following;

> >

> > Advance Textbook on Traditional

> and Pharmacology, Vol. I

> History - Basic Theory -

> Diagnostics, Vol. II

> Pharmacy - Prescription , Vol. III Internal

> Medicine Vol. IV

> Acupuncture and Moxibustion shown at http://www.china-

> guide.com/tcm/advanced.html. I'd would appreciate opinions on these

> texts.

> >

> > I am looking for a good book on Chinese herbal processing and

> chemical make up of Chinese herbs.

> >

> > Gilbert Arnold P.Eng.

> > http://www.agr.ca/cgi-bin/misb/whoswho/empdet/l=0/s=99/e=1916

>

>

> -

-----

> You can win $1000!

> Time-limited offer. Enter today at:

> http://click./1/2864/6/_/542111/_/956122482/

> -

-----

>

> Chronic Diseases Heal - Chinese Herbs Can Help

>

>

>

> ----------------------- Headers --------------------------------

> Return-Path: <sentto-201013-766-

GRCanning=aol.com (AT) returns (DOT) >

> Received: from rly-yg02.mx.aol.com (rly-yg02.mail.aol.com

[172.18.147.2])

> by air-yg05.mail.aol.com (v70.20) with ESMTP; Wed, 19 Apr 2000

01:34:59 -0400

> Received: from mr. (mr. [208.50.144.80]) by

> rly-yg02.mx.aol.com (v71.10) with ESMTP; Wed, 19 Apr 2000 01:34:48 -

0400

> X-eGroups-Return: sentto-201013-766-

GRCanning=aol.com (AT) returns (DOT)

> Received: from [10.1.10.37] by mr. with NNFMP; 19 Apr

2000

> 05:34:42 -0000

> Received: (qmail 24949 invoked from network); 19 Apr 2000

05:34:41 -0000

> Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by m3.onelist.org with QMQP;

19 Apr

2000

> 05:34:41 -0000

> Received: from unknown (HELO qh.) (10.1.2.28) by mta2

with

SMTP;

> 19 Apr 2000 05:34:41 -0000

> Received: (qmail 20854 invoked from network); 19 Apr 2000

05:34:41 -0000

> Received: from n8.onelist.org (HELO fk.) (10.1.10.47) by

> iqh. with SMTP; 19 Apr 2000 05:34:41 -0000

> X-eGroups-Return: OMJournal

> Received: from [10.1.10.117] by fk. with NNFMP; 19 Apr

2000

> 05:34:41 -0000

>

> Message-ID: <8djgh9+9kmb (AT) eGroups (DOT) com>

> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82

> X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster

> MIME-Version: 1.0

> Mailing-List: list ; contact

> -owner

> Delivered-mailing list

> Precedence: bulk

> List-Un: <-

>

> Wed, 19 Apr 2000 05:34:33 -0000

> X-eGroups-OMJournal

> OMJournal

>

> spagyric

> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII

> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

>

> >>

>

> --

----

> Avoid the lines and visit avis.com for quick and easy online

> reservations. Enjoy a compact car nationwide for only $29 a day!

> Click here for more details.

> http://click./1/3011/6/_/542111/_/956127544/

> --

----

>

> Chronic Diseases Heal - Chinese Herbs Can Help

>

>

 

 

 

 

 

, GRCanning@a... wrote:

>

> Hi James,

>

> You really have my attention now (as a member of the list) with the

spagryic

> tinctures and your " fibonacci series " tinctures.

>

> I always wanted to explore Spagyric tinctures of TCM formulas, but

the

> incredible difficulty (at least according to the published methods)

has kept

> me from pursuing it.

>

> Do you have any more information (at least information you would be

willing

> to share [oh lord, not the dreaded " Chinese Secret Formula "

business again I

> hope (g)]), on the available alchemical tinctures, and where to get

them, and

> on your innovative " fibonacci tincts " ?

>

> Thanks in advance for any info you can share on them, and on your

> experience's in using them.

>

> Thanks,

>

> Bruce Canning, OMD, L.Ac.

>

>

>

> --

----------

> ---------------------------

Original

> Message------------

> In a message dated 04/18/2000 10:34:59 PM Pacific Daylight Time,

> OMJournal writes:

>

> << Subj: spagyric

> 04/18/2000 10:34:59 PM Pacific Daylight Time

> OMJournal

> Reply-to: <A HREF= " " >chineseherbacad

emy

> @</A>

>

>

> Dear Gilbert:

>

> Do you have any spagyric formulas made with individual herbs or

> Chinese formulas for sale or trade?

>

> I have several types of samples of Chinese formulas, if you'd like

to

> try some, made by an alchemist using his own specially prepared

> solvents, using low temperature and vacuum methods of extraction.

> Doses are only a few drops.

>

> I've been making my own formulas according to the Fibonacci

sequence,

> using Spring Wind concentrates. Even classical formulas seem to

work

> better this way.

>

>

> James Ramholz

> Oriental Medicine Journal

>

>

>

>

>

>

> , " Gilbert Arnold "

> <ArnoldG@E...> wrote:

> > Hi ,

> >

> > My name is Gilbert Arnold; I am a trade and marketing officer

for

> the Canadian Government. Herbs and their products are among my

> responsibilities.

> >

> > I am also a former benedictine monk trained to make spagyric

> pharmaceutical and herbal preparations any thing from antibiotics

to

> Hawthorne tinctures. We also made beer and wine. I have as a

hobby,

> a fully equipped lab.

> >

> > I also have about 3000 hours of training in acupuncture, shiatsu

> and tuina. I can do pulse diagnosis. Unfortunately, I never learnt

> about the medicinal use of herbs to any serious extent.

> >

> > In my travels to martial arts seminars I met and treated (for

> aches, pains and injuries) practitioners of tcm who got me

interested

> in tcm herbs. I applied western and ayurvedic preparation

technology

> to some of the less palatable decoctions and, according to these

> physicians, the things worked better, probably by increasing

patient

> compliance.

> >

> > My academic background include a degree and professional

> registration in engineering, degrees in agriculture and general

> science, theology and chemical technology.

> >

> > Having noted a shift in Chinese agricultural production

following

> their reception of a world bank loan, I have begun to work (as a

> hobby) on growing Chinese herbs in North America.

> >

> > In order to alleviate my ignorance about herbs, but without

wanting

> to hang out a shingle, I was thinking of purchasing the following;

> >

> > Advance Textbook on Traditional

> and Pharmacology, Vol.

I

> History - Basic Theory -

> Diagnostics, Vol. II

> Pharmacy - Prescription , Vol. III Internal

> Medicine Vol. IV

> Acupuncture and Moxibustion shown at http://www.china-

> guide.com/tcm/advanced.html. I'd would appreciate opinions on

these

> texts.

> >

> > I am looking for a good book on Chinese herbal processing and

> chemical make up of Chinese herbs.

> >

> > Gilbert Arnold P.Eng.

> > http://www.agr.ca/cgi-bin/misb/whoswho/empdet/l=0/s=99/e=1916

>

>

> -

-----

> You can win $1000!

> Time-limited offer. Enter today at:

> http://click./1/2864/6/_/542111/_/956122482/

> -

-----

>

> Chronic Diseases Heal - Chinese Herbs Can Help

>

>

>

> ----------------------- Headers --------------------------------

> Return-Path: <sentto-201013-766-

GRCanning=aol.com (AT) returns (DOT) >

> Received: from rly-yg02.mx.aol.com (rly-yg02.mail.aol.com

[172.18.147.2])

> by air-yg05.mail.aol.com (v70.20) with ESMTP; Wed, 19 Apr 2000

01:34:59 -0400

> Received: from mr. (mr. [208.50.144.80]) by

> rly-yg02.mx.aol.com (v71.10) with ESMTP; Wed, 19 Apr 2000 01:34:48 -

0400

> X-eGroups-Return: sentto-201013-766-

GRCanning=aol.com (AT) returns (DOT)

> Received: from [10.1.10.37] by mr. with NNFMP; 19 Apr

2000

> 05:34:42 -0000

> Received: (qmail 24949 invoked from network); 19 Apr 2000

05:34:41 -0000

> Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by m3.onelist.org with QMQP;

19 Apr 2000

> 05:34:41 -0000

> Received: from unknown (HELO qh.) (10.1.2.28) by mta2

with SMTP;

> 19 Apr 2000 05:34:41 -0000

> Received: (qmail 20854 invoked from network); 19 Apr 2000

05:34:41 -0000

> Received: from n8.onelist.org (HELO fk.) (10.1.10.47)

by

> iqh. with SMTP; 19 Apr 2000 05:34:41 -0000

> X-eGroups-Return: OMJournal

> Received: from [10.1.10.117] by fk. with NNFMP; 19 Apr

2000

> 05:34:41 -0000

>

> Message-ID: <8djgh9+9kmb (AT) eGroups (DOT) com>

> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82

> X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster

> MIME-Version: 1.0

> Mailing-List: list ; contact

> -owner

> Delivered-mailing list

> Precedence: bulk

> List-Un: <-

>

> Wed, 19 Apr 2000 05:34:33 -0000

> X-eGroups-OMJournal

> OMJournal

>

> spagyric

> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII

> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

>

> >>

 

 

------

Enjoy the award-winning journalism of The New York Times with

convenient home delivery. And for a limited time, get 50% off for the

first 8 weeks by subscribing. Pay by credit card and receive an

additional 4 weeks at this low introductory rate.

http://click./1/3102/6/_/542111/_/956205428/

------

 

Chronic Diseases Heal - Chinese Herbs Can Help

 

 

 

----------------------- Headers --------------------------------

Return-Path: <sentto-201013-771-GRCanning=aol.com (AT) returns (DOT) >

Received: from rly-yc03.mx.aol.com (rly-yc03.mail.aol.com [172.18.149.35])

by air-yc05.mail.aol.com (v70.20) with ESMTP; Thu, 20 Apr 2000 00:37:52 2000

Received: from mv. (mv. [208.50.144.81]) by

rly-yc03.mx.aol.com (v71.10) with ESMTP; Thu, 20 Apr 2000 00:37:22 -0400

X-eGroups-Return: sentto-201013-771-GRCanning=aol.com (AT) returns (DOT)

Received: from [10.1.10.37] by mv. with NNFMP; 20 Apr 2000

05:37:09 -0000

Received: (qmail 28897 invoked from network); 20 Apr 2000 04:37:07 -0000

Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by m3.onelist.org with QMQP; 20 Apr 2000

04:37:07 -0000

Received: from unknown (HELO qg.) (10.1.2.27) by mta1 with SMTP;

20 Apr 2000 04:37:07 -0000

Received: (qmail 4202 invoked from network); 20 Apr 2000 04:37:07 -0000

Received: from n1.onelist.org (HELO hh.) (10.1.10.40) by

iqg. with SMTP; 20 Apr 2000 04:37:07 -0000

X-eGroups-Return: OMJournal

Received: from [10.1.10.29] by hh. with NNFMP; 20 Apr 2000

04:37:07 -0000

Message-ID: <8dm1hd+2qa0 (AT) eGroups (DOT) com>

In-<d2.276cf37.262eb330

User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82

X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster

MIME-Version: 1.0

Mailing-List: list ; contact

-owner

Delivered-mailing list

Precedence: bulk

List-Un: <->

Thu, 20 Apr 2000 04:37:01 -0000

X-eGroups- " James Ramholz " <OMJournal

" James Ramholz " <OMJournal

Re: spagyric

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 

>>

 

 

Thanks for your interest. I probably wasn't clear, though. The

fibonacci series is a mathematical series that I prepare regular

classical formulas according to, using concentrated powders and not

in spagryic tinctures. I studied with a Korean and they often use

different proportions in their formulas. So I've been playing around

with the idea of the fibonacci series and golden mean.

 

Interestingly, several Hua To formulas use the golden mean ratio (I

like to base my formulas on his work). The Hua To Ginseng formula in

my book is one example where he using the golden mean (probably

unintentionally).

 

A friend makes alchemical tinctures of Chinese formulas using some

spagyric methodologies but primarily done in vacuum at low

temperature. The key is using specialized solvents. For example, he

does the alchemical wine work (repeated distillations) for one of the

bases. After distillation, the formulas then are separated and

centrifuged to remove unwanted oils, resins, and gunk. The formulas

aren't necessarily secret, but the extraction process is difficult,

labor-intensive, and expensive. The retail price was about $1000 an

ounce for the finished product. So only a few clients could afford

them. His lab isn't set up now, but I hope when he relocates more

research can be done.

 

I used one or two of the alchemical tinctures instead of moxa for

cancer cases, chronic fatigue, and MS with very good results. I

tracked the changes created with the tincture by watching their

pulses. It added a lot of energy and by-passed the GI tract by being

absorbed under the tongue.

 

 

 

>

> Hi James,

>

> You really have my attention now (as a member of the list) with the

spagryic

> tinctures and your " fibonacci series " tinctures.

>

> I always wanted to explore Spagyric tinctures of TCM formulas, but

the

> incredible difficulty (at least according to the published methods)

has

kept

> me from pursuing it.

>

> Do you have any more information (at least information you would be

willing

> to share [oh lord, not the dreaded " Chinese Secret Formula "

business again

I

> hope (g)]), on the available alchemical tinctures, and where to get

them,

and

> on your innovative " fibonacci tincts " ?

>

> Thanks in advance for any info you can share on them, and on your

> experience's in using them.

>

> Thanks,

>

> Bruce Canning, OMD, L.Ac.

>

>

>

> --

------

----

> ---------------------------Original

> Message------------

> In a message dated 04/18/2000 10:34:59 PM Pacific Daylight Time,

> OMJournal writes:

>

> << Subj: spagyric

> 04/18/2000 10:34:59 PM Pacific Daylight Time

> OMJournal

> Reply-to: <A

HREF= " " >

> @</A>

>

>

> Dear Gilbert:

>

> Do you have any spagyric formulas made with individual herbs or

> Chinese formulas for sale or trade?

>

> I have several types of samples of Chinese formulas, if you'd like

to

> try some, made by an alchemist using his own specially prepared

> solvents, using low temperature and vacuum methods of extraction.

> Doses are only a few drops.

>

> I've been making my own formulas according to the Fibonacci

sequence,

> using Spring Wind concentrates. Even classical formulas seem to

work

> better this way.

>

>

> James Ramholz

> Oriental Medicine Journal

, " Gilbert Arnold "

> <ArnoldG@E...> wrote:

> > Hi ,

> >

> > My name is Gilbert Arnold; I am a trade and marketing officer for

> the Canadian Government. Herbs and their products are among my

> responsibilities.

> >

> > I am also a former benedictine monk trained to make spagyric

> pharmaceutical and herbal preparations any thing from antibiotics

to

> Hawthorne tinctures. We also made beer and wine. I have as a

hobby,

> a fully equipped lab.

> >

> > I also have about 3000 hours of training in acupuncture, shiatsu

> and tuina. I can do pulse diagnosis. Unfortunately, I never learnt

> about the medicinal use of herbs to any serious extent.

> >

> > In my travels to martial arts seminars I met and treated (for

> aches, pains and injuries) practitioners of tcm who got me

interested

> in tcm herbs. I applied western and ayurvedic preparation

technology

> to some of the less palatable decoctions and, according to these

> physicians, the things worked better, probably by increasing

patient

> compliance.

> >

> > My academic background include a degree and professional

> registration in engineering, degrees in agriculture and general

> science, theology and chemical technology.

> >

> > Having noted a shift in Chinese agricultural production following

> their reception of a world bank loan, I have begun to work (as a

> hobby) on growing Chinese herbs in North America.

> >

> > In order to alleviate my ignorance about herbs, but without

wanting

> to hang out a shingle, I was thinking of purchasing the following;

> >

> > Advance Textbook on Traditional

> and Pharmacology, Vol. I

> History - Basic Theory -

> Diagnostics, Vol. II

> Pharmacy - Prescription , Vol. III Internal

> Medicine Vol. IV

> Acupuncture and Moxibustion shown at http://www.china-

> guide.com/tcm/advanced.html. I'd would appreciate opinions on these

> texts.

> >

> > I am looking for a good book on Chinese herbal processing and

> chemical make up of Chinese herbs.

> >

> > Gilbert Arnold P.Eng.

> > http://www.agr.ca/cgi-bin/misb/whoswho/empdet/l=0/s=99/e=1916

>

>

> -

-----

> You can win $1000!

> Time-limited offer. Enter today at:

> http://click./1/2864/6/_/542111/_/956122482/

> -

-----

>

> Chronic Diseases Heal - Chinese Herbs Can Help

>

>

>

> ----------------------- Headers --------------------------------

> Return-Path: <sentto-201013-766-

GRCanning=aol.com (AT) returns (DOT) >

> Received: from rly-yg02.mx.aol.com (rly-yg02.mail.aol.com

[172.18.147.2])

> by air-yg05.mail.aol.com (v70.20) with ESMTP; Wed, 19 Apr 2000

01:34:59 -0400

> Received: from mr. (mr. [208.50.144.80]) by

> rly-yg02.mx.aol.com (v71.10) with ESMTP; Wed, 19 Apr 2000 01:34:48 -

0400

> X-eGroups-Return: sentto-201013-766-

GRCanning=aol.com (AT) returns (DOT)

> Received: from [10.1.10.37] by mr. with NNFMP; 19 Apr

2000

> 05:34:42 -0000

> Received: (qmail 24949 invoked from network); 19 Apr 2000

05:34:41 -0000

> Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by m3.onelist.org with QMQP;

19 Apr

2000

> 05:34:41 -0000

> Received: from unknown (HELO qh.) (10.1.2.28) by mta2

with

SMTP;

> 19 Apr 2000 05:34:41 -0000

> Received: (qmail 20854 invoked from network); 19 Apr 2000

05:34:41 -0000

> Received: from n8.onelist.org (HELO fk.) (10.1.10.47) by

> iqh. with SMTP; 19 Apr 2000 05:34:41 -0000

> X-eGroups-Return: OMJournal

> Received: from [10.1.10.117] by fk. with NNFMP; 19 Apr

2000

> 05:34:41 -0000

>

> Message-ID: <8djgh9+9kmb (AT) eGroups (DOT) com>

> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82

> X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster

> MIME-Version: 1.0

> Mailing-List: list ; contact

> -owner

> Delivered-mailing list

> Precedence: bulk

> List-Un: <-

>

> Wed, 19 Apr 2000 05:34:33 -0000

> X-eGroups-OMJournal

> OMJournal

>

> spagyric

> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII

> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

>

> >>

>

> --

----

> Avoid the lines and visit avis.com for quick and easy online

> reservations. Enjoy a compact car nationwide for only $29 a day!

> Click here for more details.

> http://click./1/3011/6/_/542111/_/956127544/

> --

----

>

> Chronic Diseases Heal - Chinese Herbs Can Help

>

>

 

 

 

 

 

, GRCanning@a... wrote:

>

> Hi James,

>

> You really have my attention now (as a member of the list) with the

spagryic

> tinctures and your " fibonacci series " tinctures.

>

> I always wanted to explore Spagyric tinctures of TCM formulas, but

the

> incredible difficulty (at least according to the published methods)

has kept

> me from pursuing it.

>

> Do you have any more information (at least information you would be

willing

> to share [oh lord, not the dreaded " Chinese Secret Formula "

business again I

> hope (g)]), on the available alchemical tinctures, and where to get

them, and

> on your innovative " fibonacci tincts " ?

>

> Thanks in advance for any info you can share on them, and on your

> experience's in using them.

>

> Thanks,

>

> Bruce Canning, OMD, L.Ac.

>

>

>

> --

----------

> ---------------------------

Original

> Message------------

> In a message dated 04/18/2000 10:34:59 PM Pacific Daylight Time,

> OMJournal writes:

>

> << Subj: spagyric

> 04/18/2000 10:34:59 PM Pacific Daylight Time

> OMJournal

> Reply-to: <A

HREF= " " >

> @</A>

>

>

> Dear Gilbert:

>

> Do you have any spagyric formulas made with individual herbs or

> Chinese formulas for sale or trade?

>

> I have several types of samples of Chinese formulas, if you'd like

to

> try some, made by an alchemist using his own specially prepared

> solvents, using low temperature and vacuum methods of extraction.

> Doses are only a few drops.

>

> I've been making my own formulas according to the Fibonacci

sequence,

> using Spring Wind concentrates. Even classical formulas seem to

work

> better this way.

>

>

> James Ramholz

> Oriental Medicine Journal

, " Gilbert Arnold "

> <ArnoldG@E...> wrote:

> > Hi ,

> >

> > My name is Gilbert Arnold; I am a trade and marketing officer

for

> the Canadian Government. Herbs and their products are among my

> responsibilities.

> >

> > I am also a former benedictine monk trained to make spagyric

> pharmaceutical and herbal preparations any thing from antibiotics

to

> Hawthorne tinctures. We also made beer and wine. I have as a

hobby,

> a fully equipped lab.

> >

> > I also have about 3000 hours of training in acupuncture, shiatsu

> and tuina. I can do pulse diagnosis. Unfortunately, I never learnt

> about the medicinal use of herbs to any serious extent.

> >

> > In my travels to martial arts seminars I met and treated (for

> aches, pains and injuries) practitioners of tcm who got me

interested

> in tcm herbs. I applied western and ayurvedic preparation

technology

> to some of the less palatable decoctions and, according to these

> physicians, the things worked better, probably by increasing

patient

> compliance.

> >

> > My academic background include a degree and professional

> registration in engineering, degrees in agriculture and general

> science, theology and chemical technology.

> >

> > Having noted a shift in Chinese agricultural production

following

> their reception of a world bank loan, I have begun to work (as a

> hobby) on growing Chinese herbs in North America.

> >

> > In order to alleviate my ignorance about herbs, but without

wanting

> to hang out a shingle, I was thinking of purchasing the following;

> >

> > Advance Textbook on Traditional

> and Pharmacology, Vol.

I

> History - Basic Theory -

> Diagnostics, Vol. II

> Pharmacy - Prescription , Vol. III Internal

> Medicine Vol. IV

> Acupuncture and Moxibustion shown at http://www.china-

> guide.com/tcm/advanced.html. I'd would appreciate opinions on

these

> texts.

> >

> > I am looking for a good book on Chinese herbal processing and

> chemical make up of Chinese herbs.

> >

> > Gilbert Arnold P.Eng.

> > http://www.agr.ca/cgi-bin/misb/whoswho/empdet/l=0/s=99/e=1916

>

>

> -

-----

> You can win $1000!

> Time-limited offer. Enter today at:

> http://click./1/2864/6/_/542111/_/956122482/

> -

-----

>

> Chronic Diseases Heal - Chinese Herbs Can Help

>

>

>

> ----------------------- Headers --------------------------------

> Return-Path: <sentto-201013-766-

GRCanning=aol.com (AT) returns (DOT) >

> Received: from rly-yg02.mx.aol.com (rly-yg02.mail.aol.com

[172.18.147.2])

> by air-yg05.mail.aol.com (v70.20) with ESMTP; Wed, 19 Apr 2000

01:34:59 -0400

> Received: from mr. (mr. [208.50.144.80]) by

> rly-yg02.mx.aol.com (v71.10) with ESMTP; Wed, 19 Apr 2000 01:34:48 -

0400

> X-eGroups-Return: sentto-201013-766-

GRCanning=aol.com (AT) returns (DOT)

> Received: from [10.1.10.37] by mr. with NNFMP; 19 Apr

2000

> 05:34:42 -0000

> Received: (qmail 24949 invoked from network); 19 Apr 2000

05:34:41 -0000

> Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by m3.onelist.org with QMQP;

19 Apr 2000

> 05:34:41 -0000

> Received: from unknown (HELO qh.) (10.1.2.28) by mta2

with SMTP;

> 19 Apr 2000 05:34:41 -0000

> Received: (qmail 20854 invoked from network); 19 Apr 2000

05:34:41 -0000

> Received: from n8.onelist.org (HELO fk.) (10.1.10.47)

by

> iqh. with SMTP; 19 Apr 2000 05:34:41 -0000

> X-eGroups-Return: OMJournal

> Received: from [10.1.10.117] by fk. with NNFMP; 19 Apr

2000

> 05:34:41 -0000

>

> Message-ID: <8djgh9+9kmb (AT) eGroups (DOT) com>

> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82

> X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster

> MIME-Version: 1.0

> Mailing-List: list ; contact

> -owner

> Delivered-mailing list

> Precedence: bulk

> List-Un: <-

>

> Wed, 19 Apr 2000 05:34:33 -0000

> X-eGroups-OMJournal

> OMJournal

>

> spagyric

> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII

> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

>

> >>

 

 

------

Enjoy the award-winning journalism of The New York Times with

convenient home delivery. And for a limited time, get 50% off for the

first 8 weeks by subscribing. Pay by credit card and receive an

additional 4 weeks at this low introductory rate.

http://click./1/3102/6/_/542111/_/956205428/

------

 

Chronic Diseases Heal - Chinese Herbs Can Help

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest guest

Thanks for your interest. I probably wasn't clear, though. The

fibonacci series is a mathematical series that I prepare regular

classical formulas according to, using concentrated powders and not

in spagryic tinctures. I studied with a Korean and they often use

different proportions in their formulas. So I've been playing around

with the idea of the fibonacci series and golden mean.

 

Interestingly, several Hua To formulas use the golden mean ratio (I

like to base my formulas on his work). The Hua To Ginseng formula in

my book is one example where he using the golden mean (probably

unintentionally).

 

A friend makes alchemical tinctures of Chinese formulas using some

spagyric methodologies but primarily done in vacuum at low

temperature. The key is using specialized solvents. For example, he

does the alchemical wine work (repeated distillations) for one of the

bases. After distillation, the formulas then are separated and

centrifuged to remove unwanted oils, resins, and gunk. The formulas

aren't necessarily secret, but the extraction process is difficult,

labor-intensive, and expensive. The retail price was about $1000 an

ounce for the finished product. So only a few clients could afford

them. His lab isn't set up now, but I hope when he relocates more

research can be done.

 

I used one or two of the alchemical tinctures instead of moxa for

cancer cases, chronic fatigue, and MS with very good results. I

tracked the changes created with the tincture by watching their

pulses. It added a lot of energy and by-passed the GI tract by being

absorbed under the tongue.

 

 

 

>

> Hi James,

>

> You really have my attention now (as a member of the list) with the

spagryic

> tinctures and your " fibonacci series " tinctures.

>

> I always wanted to explore Spagyric tinctures of TCM formulas, but

the

> incredible difficulty (at least according to the published methods)

has

kept

> me from pursuing it.

>

> Do you have any more information (at least information you would be

willing

> to share [oh lord, not the dreaded " Chinese Secret Formula "

business again

I

> hope (g)]), on the available alchemical tinctures, and where to get

them,

and

> on your innovative " fibonacci tincts " ?

>

> Thanks in advance for any info you can share on them, and on your

> experience's in using them.

>

> Thanks,

>

> Bruce Canning, OMD, L.Ac.

>

>

>

> --

------

----

> ---------------------------Original

> Message------------

> In a message dated 04/18/2000 10:34:59 PM Pacific Daylight Time,

> OMJournal writes:

>

> << Subj: spagyric

> 04/18/2000 10:34:59 PM Pacific Daylight Time

> OMJournal

> Reply-to: <A

HREF= " " >

> @</A>

>

>

> Dear Gilbert:

>

> Do you have any spagyric formulas made with individual herbs or

> Chinese formulas for sale or trade?

>

> I have several types of samples of Chinese formulas, if you'd like

to

> try some, made by an alchemist using his own specially prepared

> solvents, using low temperature and vacuum methods of extraction.

> Doses are only a few drops.

>

> I've been making my own formulas according to the Fibonacci

sequence,

> using Spring Wind concentrates. Even classical formulas seem to

work

> better this way.

>

>

> James Ramholz

> Oriental Medicine Journal

, " Gilbert Arnold "

> <ArnoldG@E...> wrote:

> > Hi ,

> >

> > My name is Gilbert Arnold; I am a trade and marketing officer for

> the Canadian Government. Herbs and their products are among my

> responsibilities.

> >

> > I am also a former benedictine monk trained to make spagyric

> pharmaceutical and herbal preparations any thing from antibiotics

to

> Hawthorne tinctures. We also made beer and wine. I have as a

hobby,

> a fully equipped lab.

> >

> > I also have about 3000 hours of training in acupuncture, shiatsu

> and tuina. I can do pulse diagnosis. Unfortunately, I never learnt

> about the medicinal use of herbs to any serious extent.

> >

> > In my travels to martial arts seminars I met and treated (for

> aches, pains and injuries) practitioners of tcm who got me

interested

> in tcm herbs. I applied western and ayurvedic preparation

technology

> to some of the less palatable decoctions and, according to these

> physicians, the things worked better, probably by increasing

patient

> compliance.

> >

> > My academic background include a degree and professional

> registration in engineering, degrees in agriculture and general

> science, theology and chemical technology.

> >

> > Having noted a shift in Chinese agricultural production following

> their reception of a world bank loan, I have begun to work (as a

> hobby) on growing Chinese herbs in North America.

> >

> > In order to alleviate my ignorance about herbs, but without

wanting

> to hang out a shingle, I was thinking of purchasing the following;

> >

> > Advance Textbook on Traditional

> and Pharmacology, Vol. I

> History - Basic Theory -

> Diagnostics, Vol. II

> Pharmacy - Prescription , Vol. III Internal

> Medicine Vol. IV

> Acupuncture and Moxibustion shown at http://www.china-

> guide.com/tcm/advanced.html. I'd would appreciate opinions on these

> texts.

> >

> > I am looking for a good book on Chinese herbal processing and

> chemical make up of Chinese herbs.

> >

> > Gilbert Arnold P.Eng.

> > http://www.agr.ca/cgi-bin/misb/whoswho/empdet/l=0/s=99/e=1916

>

>

> -

-----

> You can win $1000!

> Time-limited offer. Enter today at:

> http://click./1/2864/6/_/542111/_/956122482/

> -

-----

>

> Chronic Diseases Heal - Chinese Herbs Can Help

>

>

>

> ----------------------- Headers --------------------------------

> Return-Path: <sentto-201013-766-

GRCanning=aol.com (AT) returns (DOT) >

> Received: from rly-yg02.mx.aol.com (rly-yg02.mail.aol.com

[172.18.147.2])

> by air-yg05.mail.aol.com (v70.20) with ESMTP; Wed, 19 Apr 2000

01:34:59 -0400

> Received: from mr. (mr. [208.50.144.80]) by

> rly-yg02.mx.aol.com (v71.10) with ESMTP; Wed, 19 Apr 2000 01:34:48 -

0400

> X-eGroups-Return: sentto-201013-766-

GRCanning=aol.com (AT) returns (DOT)

> Received: from [10.1.10.37] by mr. with NNFMP; 19 Apr

2000

> 05:34:42 -0000

> Received: (qmail 24949 invoked from network); 19 Apr 2000

05:34:41 -0000

> Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by m3.onelist.org with QMQP;

19 Apr

2000

> 05:34:41 -0000

> Received: from unknown (HELO qh.) (10.1.2.28) by mta2

with

SMTP;

> 19 Apr 2000 05:34:41 -0000

> Received: (qmail 20854 invoked from network); 19 Apr 2000

05:34:41 -0000

> Received: from n8.onelist.org (HELO fk.) (10.1.10.47) by

> iqh. with SMTP; 19 Apr 2000 05:34:41 -0000

> X-eGroups-Return: OMJournal

> Received: from [10.1.10.117] by fk. with NNFMP; 19 Apr

2000

> 05:34:41 -0000

>

> Message-ID: <8djgh9+9kmb (AT) eGroups (DOT) com>

> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82

> X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster

> MIME-Version: 1.0

> Mailing-List: list ; contact

> -owner

> Delivered-mailing list

> Precedence: bulk

> List-Un: <-

>

> Wed, 19 Apr 2000 05:34:33 -0000

> X-eGroups-OMJournal

> OMJournal

>

> spagyric

> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII

> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

>

> >>

>

> --

----

> Avoid the lines and visit avis.com for quick and easy online

> reservations. Enjoy a compact car nationwide for only $29 a day!

> Click here for more details.

> http://click./1/3011/6/_/542111/_/956127544/

> --

----

>

> Chronic Diseases Heal - Chinese Herbs Can Help

>

>

 

 

 

 

 

, GRCanning@a... wrote:

>

> Hi James,

>

> You really have my attention now (as a member of the list) with the

spagryic

> tinctures and your " fibonacci series " tinctures.

>

> I always wanted to explore Spagyric tinctures of TCM formulas, but

the

> incredible difficulty (at least according to the published methods)

has kept

> me from pursuing it.

>

> Do you have any more information (at least information you would be

willing

> to share [oh lord, not the dreaded " Chinese Secret Formula "

business again I

> hope (g)]), on the available alchemical tinctures, and where to get

them, and

> on your innovative " fibonacci tincts " ?

>

> Thanks in advance for any info you can share on them, and on your

> experience's in using them.

>

> Thanks,

>

> Bruce Canning, OMD, L.Ac.

>

>

>

> --

----------

> ---------------------------

Original

> Message------------

> In a message dated 04/18/2000 10:34:59 PM Pacific Daylight Time,

> OMJournal writes:

>

> << Subj: spagyric

> 04/18/2000 10:34:59 PM Pacific Daylight Time

> OMJournal

> Reply-to: <A

HREF= " " >

> @</A>

>

>

> Dear Gilbert:

>

> Do you have any spagyric formulas made with individual herbs or

> Chinese formulas for sale or trade?

>

> I have several types of samples of Chinese formulas, if you'd like

to

> try some, made by an alchemist using his own specially prepared

> solvents, using low temperature and vacuum methods of extraction.

> Doses are only a few drops.

>

> I've been making my own formulas according to the Fibonacci

sequence,

> using Spring Wind concentrates. Even classical formulas seem to

work

> better this way.

>

>

> James Ramholz

> Oriental Medicine Journal

, " Gilbert Arnold "

> <ArnoldG@E...> wrote:

> > Hi ,

> >

> > My name is Gilbert Arnold; I am a trade and marketing officer

for

> the Canadian Government. Herbs and their products are among my

> responsibilities.

> >

> > I am also a former benedictine monk trained to make spagyric

> pharmaceutical and herbal preparations any thing from antibiotics

to

> Hawthorne tinctures. We also made beer and wine. I have as a

hobby,

> a fully equipped lab.

> >

> > I also have about 3000 hours of training in acupuncture, shiatsu

> and tuina. I can do pulse diagnosis. Unfortunately, I never learnt

> about the medicinal use of herbs to any serious extent.

> >

> > In my travels to martial arts seminars I met and treated (for

> aches, pains and injuries) practitioners of tcm who got me

interested

> in tcm herbs. I applied western and ayurvedic preparation

technology

> to some of the less palatable decoctions and, according to these

> physicians, the things worked better, probably by increasing

patient

> compliance.

> >

> > My academic background include a degree and professional

> registration in engineering, degrees in agriculture and general

> science, theology and chemical technology.

> >

> > Having noted a shift in Chinese agricultural production

following

> their reception of a world bank loan, I have begun to work (as a

> hobby) on growing Chinese herbs in North America.

> >

> > In order to alleviate my ignorance about herbs, but without

wanting

> to hang out a shingle, I was thinking of purchasing the following;

> >

> > Advance Textbook on Traditional

> and Pharmacology, Vol.

I

> History - Basic Theory -

> Diagnostics, Vol. II

> Pharmacy - Prescription , Vol. III Internal

> Medicine Vol. IV

> Acupuncture and Moxibustion shown at http://www.china-

> guide.com/tcm/advanced.html. I'd would appreciate opinions on

these

> texts.

> >

> > I am looking for a good book on Chinese herbal processing and

> chemical make up of Chinese herbs.

> >

> > Gilbert Arnold P.Eng.

> > http://www.agr.ca/cgi-bin/misb/whoswho/empdet/l=0/s=99/e=1916

>

>

> -

-----

> You can win $1000!

> Time-limited offer. Enter today at:

> http://click./1/2864/6/_/542111/_/956122482/

> -

-----

>

> Chronic Diseases Heal - Chinese Herbs Can Help

>

>

>

> ----------------------- Headers --------------------------------

> Return-Path: <sentto-201013-766-

GRCanning=aol.com (AT) returns (DOT) >

> Received: from rly-yg02.mx.aol.com (rly-yg02.mail.aol.com

[172.18.147.2])

> by air-yg05.mail.aol.com (v70.20) with ESMTP; Wed, 19 Apr 2000

01:34:59 -0400

> Received: from mr. (mr. [208.50.144.80]) by

> rly-yg02.mx.aol.com (v71.10) with ESMTP; Wed, 19 Apr 2000 01:34:48 -

0400

> X-eGroups-Return: sentto-201013-766-

GRCanning=aol.com (AT) returns (DOT)

> Received: from [10.1.10.37] by mr. with NNFMP; 19 Apr

2000

> 05:34:42 -0000

> Received: (qmail 24949 invoked from network); 19 Apr 2000

05:34:41 -0000

> Received: from unknown (10.1.10.27) by m3.onelist.org with QMQP;

19 Apr 2000

> 05:34:41 -0000

> Received: from unknown (HELO qh.) (10.1.2.28) by mta2

with SMTP;

> 19 Apr 2000 05:34:41 -0000

> Received: (qmail 20854 invoked from network); 19 Apr 2000

05:34:41 -0000

> Received: from n8.onelist.org (HELO fk.) (10.1.10.47)

by

> iqh. with SMTP; 19 Apr 2000 05:34:41 -0000

> X-eGroups-Return: OMJournal

> Received: from [10.1.10.117] by fk. with NNFMP; 19 Apr

2000

> 05:34:41 -0000

>

> Message-ID: <8djgh9+9kmb (AT) eGroups (DOT) com>

> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82

> X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster

> MIME-Version: 1.0

> Mailing-List: list ; contact

> -owner

> Delivered-mailing list

> Precedence: bulk

> List-Un: <-

>

> Wed, 19 Apr 2000 05:34:33 -0000

> X-eGroups-OMJournal

> OMJournal

>

> spagyric

> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII

> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

>

> >>

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest guest

Hello James,

 

Sorry for the delay in my reply; I have been out of the country.

 

 

You asked;

 

" Do you have any spagyric formulas made with individual herbs or

Chinese formulas for sale or trade? "

 

At this point not. I have found a few herbs that respond well to spagyric work

such as tienchi, as long as it is low temp work. This herbs are currently being

tested.

 

You wrote;

 

" I have several types of samples of Chinese formulas, if you'd like to

try some, made by an alchemist using his own specially prepared

solvents, using low temperature and vacuum methods of extraction.

Doses are only a few drops. "

 

Diplomatically speaking, this does not sound like alchemy or spagyrics to me.

Putting a soxhlet under vacuum is not alchemy. I will e-mail some material to

you.

 

The other thing to realize is that western alchemy may well have part of it's

origin in China. I have seen pao zhi done on various plants . Calcination

methods vary from a light roasting to a full ashing.

 

Gilbert

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

, " Gilbert Arnold "

<ArnoldG@E...> wrote:

> Hi ,

>

> My name is Gilbert Arnold; I am a trade and marketing officer for

the Canadian Government. Herbs and their products are among my

responsibilities.

>

> I am also a former benedictine monk trained to make spagyric

pharmaceutical and herbal preparations any thing from antibiotics to

Hawthorne tinctures. We also made beer and wine. I have as a hobby,

a fully equipped lab.

>

> I also have about 3000 hours of training in acupuncture, shiatsu

and tuina. I can do pulse diagnosis. Unfortunately, I never learnt

about the medicinal use of herbs to any serious extent.

>

> In my travels to martial arts seminars I met and treated (for

aches, pains and injuries) practitioners of tcm who got me interested

in tcm herbs. I applied western and ayurvedic preparation technology

to some of the less palatable decoctions and, according to these

physicians, the things worked better, probably by increasing patient

compliance.

>

> My academic background include a degree and professional

registration in engineering, degrees in agriculture and general

science, theology and chemical technology.

>

> Having noted a shift in Chinese agricultural production following

their reception of a world bank loan, I have begun to work (as a

hobby) on growing Chinese herbs in North America.

>

> In order to alleviate my ignorance about herbs, but without wanting

to hang out a shingle, I was thinking of purchasing the following;

>

> Advance Textbook on Traditional

and Pharmacology, Vol. I

History - Basic Theory -

Diagnostics, Vol. II

Pharmacy - Prescription , Vol. III Internal

Medicine Vol. IV

Acupuncture and Moxibustion shown at http://www.china-

guide.com/tcm/advanced.html. I'd would appreciate opinions on these

texts.

>

> I am looking for a good book on Chinese herbal processing and

chemical make up of Chinese herbs.

>

> Gilbert Arnold P.Eng.

> http://www.agr.ca/cgi-bin/misb/whoswho/empdet/l=0/s=99/e=1916

 

 

------

You can win $1000!

Time-limited offer. Enter today at:

http://click./1/2864/6/_/542111/_/956122482/

------

 

Chronic Diseases Heal - Chinese Herbs Can Help

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest guest

Hi James,

 

I have always been sort of open, and I will send you some information on basic

spagyrics.

 

 

You wrote.

 

 

" A friend makes alchemical tinctures of Chinese formulas using some

spagyric methodologies but primarily done in vacuum at low

temperature. The key is using specialized solvents. For example, he

does the alchemical wine work (repeated distillations) for one of the

bases. "

 

Spagyric wine spirite are not made by multiple distillations; they a re made as

follows. A batch of stong white wine is made; the wine is placed in a 10 liter

flask with a 1 foot diameter ground glas neck and circulated, at 50c with a 20

liter bulb for three days. You can tell that you have done a good job if the

circulation forms nice lines down the sides of the bulb. The spirits are the

sublimated at 50c into a helm, catching the humidum containing the salts of

wine.

 

When the sublimate alcohol content is low, one stops sublimating. A careful

distillation is done, until a milky liquid separates. This liquis is worked

later to produce a coumpound that sharpens the spirits. That's spagyrics.

 

You wrote;

 

 

" After distillation, the formulas then are separated and

centrifuged to remove unwanted oils, resins, and gunk. The formulas

aren't necessarily secret, but the extraction process is difficult,

labor-intensive, and expensive. "

 

A properly conducted spagyric extraction does not necessitate a centrifubge to

separate oils and such ; the process should do that. So what you are describing

is not spagyric.

 

 

You wrote;

 

" The retail price was about $1000 an

ounce for the finished product. So only a few clients could afford

them. His lab isn't set up now, but I hope when he relocates more

research can be done. "

 

Like I said, not spagyric. Good thing it priced itself out of the market;

karma, I guess.

 

Gilbert

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest guest

Hi Gilbert,

 

Please send it to the whole list. Thanks.

 

Catherine

 

Catherine Hemenway, Dipl. Ac.

TALKING TURTLE PRODUCTIONS

" Continuing education programs in

Complementary Medicine "

www.talkingturtle.com

 

-

Gilbert Arnold <arnoldg

; <OMJournal

Thursday, April 20, 2000 8:14 AM

Re: spagyric

 

 

> Hi James,

>

> I have always been sort of open, and I will send you some information on

basic spagyrics.

>

>

> You wrote.

>

>

> " A friend makes alchemical tinctures of Chinese formulas using some

> spagyric methodologies but primarily done in vacuum at low

> temperature. The key is using specialized solvents. For example, he

> does the alchemical wine work (repeated distillations) for one of the

> bases. "

>

> Spagyric wine spirite are not made by multiple distillations; they a re

made as follows. A batch of stong white wine is made; the wine is placed in

a 10 liter flask with a 1 foot diameter ground glas neck and circulated, at

50c with a 20 liter bulb for three days. You can tell that you have done a

good job if the circulation forms nice lines down the sides of the bulb.

The spirits are the sublimated at 50c into a helm, catching the humidum

containing the salts of wine.

>

> When the sublimate alcohol content is low, one stops sublimating. A

careful distillation is done, until a milky liquid separates. This liquis

is worked later to produce a coumpound that sharpens the spirits. That's

spagyrics.

>

> You wrote;

>

>

> " After distillation, the formulas then are separated and

> centrifuged to remove unwanted oils, resins, and gunk. The formulas

> aren't necessarily secret, but the extraction process is difficult,

> labor-intensive, and expensive. "

>

> A properly conducted spagyric extraction does not necessitate a

centrifubge to separate oils and such ; the process should do that. So what

you are describing is not spagyric.

>

>

> You wrote;

>

> " The retail price was about $1000 an

> ounce for the finished product. So only a few clients could afford

> them. His lab isn't set up now, but I hope when he relocates more

> research can be done. "

>

> Like I said, not spagyric. Good thing it priced itself out of the market;

karma, I guess.

>

> Gilbert

>

>

> ------

> Good friends, school spirit, hair-dos you'd like to forget.

> Classmates.com has them all. And with 4.4 million alumni already

> registered, there's a good chance you'll find your friends here:

> http://click./1/2885/6/_/542111/_/956243713/

> ------

>

> Chronic Diseases Heal - Chinese Herbs Can Help

>

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest guest

Dear Gilbert:

 

You are right, of course, I wasn't describing the same methods as

you. I was only allowed to watch and am not very familiar with

spagyrics.

 

I was trying to describe the the Paracelsus method of separation of

the elements; extracting the " sulfur " of a Chiense herbal formula.

There's a diagram in the Philosophers of Nature Spagyrics Lesson 19,

Figure 1, that closely outlines the whole process.

 

The commerical tinctures and extracts are pretty poor. It would be

exciting to see how Chinese formulas could be cranked up in strength.

I've only decanted some formulas myself, not having invested in all

sorts of lab equipment. They go through an interesting qualitative

difference at three months, six months, and one year. I have a Hua To

formuala, an interenal trauma formula, that's over 12 years old

that's too good to take now.

 

I look forward to hearing more from you and would be anxious to try

some of your materials when you make them.

 

Jim Ramholz

 

 

, " Gilbert Arnold "

<arnoldg@e...> wrote:

> Hi James,

>

> I have always been sort of open, and I will send you some

information on basic spagyrics.

>

>

> You wrote.

>

>

> " A friend makes alchemical tinctures of Chinese formulas using some

> spagyric methodologies but primarily done in vacuum at low

> temperature. The key is using specialized solvents. For example, he

> does the alchemical wine work (repeated distillations) for one of

the

> bases. "

>

> Spagyric wine spirite are not made by multiple distillations; they

a re made as follows. A batch of stong white wine is made; the wine

is placed in a 10 liter flask with a 1 foot diameter ground glas neck

and circulated, at 50c with a 20 liter bulb for three days. You can

tell that you have done a good job if the circulation forms nice

lines down the sides of the bulb. The spirits are the sublimated at

50c into a helm, catching the humidum containing the salts of wine.

>

> When the sublimate alcohol content is low, one stops sublimating.

A careful distillation is done, until a milky liquid separates. This

liquis is worked later to produce a coumpound that sharpens the

spirits. That's spagyrics.

>

> You wrote;

>

>

> " After distillation, the formulas then are separated and

> centrifuged to remove unwanted oils, resins, and gunk. The formulas

> aren't necessarily secret, but the extraction process is difficult,

> labor-intensive, and expensive. "

>

> A properly conducted spagyric extraction does not necessitate a

centrifubge to separate oils and such ; the process should do that.

So what you are describing is not spagyric.

>

>

> You wrote;

>

> " The retail price was about $1000 an

> ounce for the finished product. So only a few clients could afford

> them. His lab isn't set up now, but I hope when he relocates more

> research can be done. "

>

> Like I said, not spagyric. Good thing it priced itself out of the

market; karma, I guess.

>

> Gilbert

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest guest

A point I'd like to make. . . .

A few years ago, I was speaking at the Pacific Symposium in a hotel where

the thermostat was set to 55* in November, with air conditioning blasting

on me. I was also sweating, as I do when I lecture and concentrate

intensely. The following morning, I woke up aching all over with severe

chill, and some clear phlegm accumulating in my throat. Later on, I saw

Jim who felt my pulse and gave me two drops of an alchemical tincture to

supplement kidney yang, and lo and behold, the symptoms dissipated

completely in one half hour! I think this method is something worth

looking into and developing.

 

On a similar note, Michael Broffman at Pine St. Pharmacy is doing a study

on Chinese powdered extracts that are reputedly 5000 to 1 with patients!

It will be interesting to see the results!

 

 

 

 

 

>Thanks for your interest. I probably wasn't clear, though. The

>fibonacci series is a mathematical series that I prepare regular

>classical formulas according to, using concentrated powders and not

>in spagryic tinctures. I studied with a Korean and they often use

>different proportions in their formulas. So I've been playing around

>with the idea of the fibonacci series and golden mean.

>

>Interestingly, several Hua To formulas use the golden mean ratio (I

>like to base my formulas on his work). The Hua To Ginseng formula in

>my book is one example where he using the golden mean (probably

>unintentionally).

>

>A friend makes alchemical tinctures of Chinese formulas using some

>spagyric methodologies but primarily done in vacuum at low

>temperature. The key is using specialized solvents. For example, he

>does the alchemical wine work (repeated distillations) for one of the

>bases. After distillation, the formulas then are separated and

>centrifuged to remove unwanted oils, resins, and gunk. The formulas

>aren't necessarily secret, but the extraction process is difficult,

>labor-intensive, and expensive. The retail price was about $1000 an

>ounce for the finished product. So only a few clients could afford

>them. His lab isn't set up now, but I hope when he relocates more

>research can be done.

>

>I used one or two of the alchemical tinctures instead of moxa for

>cancer cases, chronic fatigue, and MS with very good results. I

>tracked the changes created with the tincture by watching their

>pulses. It added a lot of energy and by-passed the GI tract by being

>absorbed under the tongue.

>

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest guest

Zev:

 

I would have guessed that the tincture I gave you was concentrated

about 100:1 due to the oil (alchemical sulphur) content. But how does

Broffman get powders to 5000??? Does it glow in the dark ((I've heard

that there are alchemicl products that actually do; but have not

verified that myself))?

 

Jim

 

 

, " "

<zrosenberg@p...> wrote:

> A point I'd like to make. . . .

> A few years ago, I was speaking at the Pacific Symposium in a hotel

where

> the thermostat was set to 55* in November, with air conditioning

blasting

> on me. I was also sweating, as I do when I lecture and concentrate

> intensely. The following morning, I woke up aching all over with

severe

> chill, and some clear phlegm accumulating in my throat. Later on,

I saw

> Jim who felt my pulse and gave me two drops of an alchemical

tincture to

> supplement kidney yang, and lo and behold, the symptoms dissipated

> completely in one half hour! I think this method is something worth

> looking into and developing.

>

> On a similar note, Michael Broffman at Pine St. Pharmacy is doing a

study

> on Chinese powdered extracts that are reputedly 5000 to 1 with

patients!

> It will be interesting to see the results!

>

>

>

>

>

> >Thanks for your interest. I probably wasn't clear, though. The

> >fibonacci series is a mathematical series that I prepare regular

> >classical formulas according to, using concentrated powders and not

> >in spagryic tinctures. I studied with a Korean and they often use

> >different proportions in their formulas. So I've been playing

around

> >with the idea of the fibonacci series and golden mean.

> >

> >Interestingly, several Hua To formulas use the golden mean ratio (I

> >like to base my formulas on his work). The Hua To Ginseng formula

in

> >my book is one example where he using the golden mean (probably

> >unintentionally).

> >

> >A friend makes alchemical tinctures of Chinese formulas using some

> >spagyric methodologies but primarily done in vacuum at low

> >temperature. The key is using specialized solvents. For example, he

> >does the alchemical wine work (repeated distillations) for one of

the

> >bases. After distillation, the formulas then are separated and

> >centrifuged to remove unwanted oils, resins, and gunk. The formulas

> >aren't necessarily secret, but the extraction process is difficult,

> >labor-intensive, and expensive. The retail price was about $1000 an

> >ounce for the finished product. So only a few clients could afford

> >them. His lab isn't set up now, but I hope when he relocates more

> >research can be done.

> >

> >I used one or two of the alchemical tinctures instead of moxa for

> >cancer cases, chronic fatigue, and MS with very good results. I

> >tracked the changes created with the tincture by watching their

> >pulses. It added a lot of energy and by-passed the GI tract by

being

> >absorbed under the tongue.

> >

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest guest

I will be following up on this soon.

 

 

 

 

>Zev:

>

>I would have guessed that the tincture I gave you was concentrated

>about 100:1 due to the oil (alchemical sulphur) content. But how does

>Broffman get powders to 5000??? Does it glow in the dark ((I've heard

>that there are alchemicl products that actually do; but have not

>verified that myself))?

>

>Jim

>

>

> , " "

><zrosenberg@p...> wrote:

>> A point I'd like to make. . . .

>> A few years ago, I was speaking at the Pacific Symposium in a hotel

>where

>> the thermostat was set to 55* in November, with air conditioning

>blasting

>> on me. I was also sweating, as I do when I lecture and concentrate

>> intensely. The following morning, I woke up aching all over with

>severe

>> chill, and some clear phlegm accumulating in my throat. Later on,

>I saw

>> Jim who felt my pulse and gave me two drops of an alchemical

>tincture to

>> supplement kidney yang, and lo and behold, the symptoms dissipated

>> completely in one half hour! I think this method is something worth

>> looking into and developing.

>>

>> On a similar note, Michael Broffman at Pine St. Pharmacy is doing a

>study

>> on Chinese powdered extracts that are reputedly 5000 to 1 with

>patients!

>> It will be interesting to see the results!

>>

>>

>>

>>

>>

>> >Thanks for your interest. I probably wasn't clear, though. The

>> >fibonacci series is a mathematical series that I prepare regular

>> >classical formulas according to, using concentrated powders and not

>> >in spagryic tinctures. I studied with a Korean and they often use

>> >different proportions in their formulas. So I've been playing

>around

>> >with the idea of the fibonacci series and golden mean.

>> >

>> >Interestingly, several Hua To formulas use the golden mean ratio (I

>> >like to base my formulas on his work). The Hua To Ginseng formula

>in

>> >my book is one example where he using the golden mean (probably

>> >unintentionally).

>> >

>> >A friend makes alchemical tinctures of Chinese formulas using some

>> >spagyric methodologies but primarily done in vacuum at low

>> >temperature. The key is using specialized solvents. For example, he

>> >does the alchemical wine work (repeated distillations) for one of

>the

>> >bases. After distillation, the formulas then are separated and

>> >centrifuged to remove unwanted oils, resins, and gunk. The formulas

>> >aren't necessarily secret, but the extraction process is difficult,

>> >labor-intensive, and expensive. The retail price was about $1000 an

>> >ounce for the finished product. So only a few clients could afford

>> >them. His lab isn't set up now, but I hope when he relocates more

>> >research can be done.

>> >

>> >I used one or two of the alchemical tinctures instead of moxa for

>> >cancer cases, chronic fatigue, and MS with very good results. I

>> >tracked the changes created with the tincture by watching their

>> >pulses. It added a lot of energy and by-passed the GI tract by

>being

>> >absorbed under the tongue.

>> >

>

>

>------

>Good friends, school spirit, hair-dos you'd like to forget.

>Classmates.com has them all. And with 4.4 million alumni already

>registered, there's a good chance you'll find your friends here:

>http://click./1/2885/6/_/542111/_/956476125/

>------

>

>Chronic Diseases Heal - Chinese Herbs Can Help

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest guest

As always I remain curious as to herbal preparations. From the books

presented in schools it appears that the most frequent " traditional method "

was simply to boil the herbs in the classic herbal cooking pot. This method

used very high heat reducing the volume by 2/3. The shape of the vessel

contributed to saving some vitals oils (I presume).

This popular Chinese Method seems in opposition compared to the popular

European Method of Tincture and Extraction where the emphasis is on low heat

and a slow process. Or a simple infusion method into hot - not boiled -

water.

Obstinately the low heat was to prevent the destruction of certain plant

ingredients. If this is so then wouldn't the same TCM formulas -- one made

traditionally in a boiling pot and one made via European Extracted produce

two different formulas ?

 

Was that why it was said " the sages poisoned themselves a hundred times a

day "

really curious,

Ed Kasper L.Ac, Santa Cruz California

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest guest

Hello James,

 

 

" You are right, of course, I wasn't describing the same methods as

you. I was only allowed to watch and am not very familiar with

spagyrics. "

 

I'd like to point out at this time that the Book " Handbook of plant alchemy " by

my friend and colleague Manfred Junius is a must for doing any kind of herbal

processing.

Second item is the fact thast the bane of western herbal products is extraction

technology ie the lack thereof. That is why a lot of the off the shelf feverfew

and echinacea products dont work. Echinacea and feverfew do not like heat.

 

As to chinese herbs, the books by Dagmar Ehling and Dan Bensky give good hints

on when to heat and not. Further research is required on tincturing chinese

herbs.

 

You also wrote;

 

" I was trying to describe the the Paracelsus method of separation of

the elements; extracting the " sulfur " of a Chiense herbal formula.

There's a diagram in the Philosophers of Nature Spagyrics Lesson 19,

Figure 1, that closely outlines the whole process. "

 

The PON lessons have little to do with medicinal spagyric preparations. To know

Paracelsus, you have to read it directly.

 

Gilbert

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...