Guest guest Posted May 11, 2000 Report Share Posted May 11, 2000 Dear Zev: I'm not opposed to Wiseman's translation as a historical document of classics useage; although I would prefer a different vocabulary in many circumstances. But for a contemporary standard, a contemporary Chinese medicine, we need a text more in line with the culture its imported to. I don't think contemporary textbooks are well served. It will probably develop into the standard, at least for a while. The best example would be something like the Oxford English Dictionary, where the word's usage is dated and given an example. In this way we could chart the change in definition and, hence, perception through the years. That way we could include the arcane definitions with contemporary ones. Contemporary medical dictionaries show shan4 as hernia, with a long list of adjectives for the type of rupture. I think all the issues could be solved in this format. Except for some quarters here, the Wiseman dictionary has been met with much resistance amongst the undergraduate students as well as the graduated practitioners. I did buy a copy. Now we'll have to worry about Elizabeth de la Rochatt's dictionary, too. Luckily for us it's only in French. I heard that she hasn't been able to find an American publisher. And then there's the moderization of Chinese medical theory---not stopping with what the classics say but what it could be when planted in our soil. I doubt that my interest of considering 5-Elements a foreshadowing of complexity theory will be met with much acceptance. But that's a separate issue. Jim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 11, 2000 Report Share Posted May 11, 2000 Translation... I will only encourage everyone out there who would try to learn Chinese for the purpose of gaining a deeper understanding of TCM. Some questions, often risen about limits or possibilities, - " is that it, does TCM not have anything more or else to say on this or that...? " would then have ways to be solved fairly easy. The thing is, Chinese medicine is the product of The universal intention of curing disease, and - Chinese culture and world view. No matter what " universal principles " you might find in TCM, it still comes out of the channels in the culture that " invented or found " it. It will be of great advantage when the west got its own workable terminology, but that will not change the exciting insight feeling you get when you actually " do " understand those difficult chinese characters. Because then you have a real chance of understanding " WHY " a term was called what it is called - with the help of the knowledge about the foreign culture's thinking that a language gives you. This even helps you to understand better how to use TCM theory in clinical practise. And therefore relevant to a western practisioner. Since I love the Chinese Language, I must say for my part, I really really miss more use of Pin yin terminology in order to build up an understanding of the " unique " concepts without the danger of local language intereference. It would give (if accompanied by real chinese languave understanding) a feeling of how well fixed everything really is in TCM terminology in its " home language " . I think most of the translators would agree with the last, at least... But I do appreciate of course all attempt to get better understandning of TCM in the west. English or other. And, - what often is missed in TCM theory, can be found elsewhere in Chinese culture knowledge, e.g. the Love madness discussion is a good example. Best regards sebastian -- Get your firstname@lastname email for FREE at http://NamePlanet.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 11, 2000 Report Share Posted May 11, 2000 When I studied Dante, which in Italy has nearly the moral force of Church dogma, the books had a few inches of Dante and double columned commentaries on the language, metaphors, variant translations to contemporary Italian, and historical background, covering the rest of the page. It would not be unreasonable to translate the classics to a readable English with a full discussion of Felt's or other's elaborations in an extensive footnoted section. Karen Vaughan CreationsGarden *************************************** Email advice is not a substitute for medical treatment. 'People have illness because they do not have love in their life and are not cherished'.- Sun Simiao ______________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 12, 2000 Report Share Posted May 12, 2000 Hi Karen, - Karen S Vaughan <creationsgarden Thursday, May 11, 2000 8:04 PM Re: Still more about translation > When I studied Dante, which in Italy has nearly the moral force of Church > dogma, the books had a few inches of Dante and double columned > commentaries on the language, metaphors, variant translations to > contemporary Italian, and historical background, covering the rest of the > page. You make an important point in this post that I want to comment on. In dealing with a subject that is primarily transmitted by means of a literary tradition those of us who study Chinese medicine are faced with a set of problems to solve that are similar in nature to those facing the students of any literature. In order to understand the meaning of words, terms, phrases and texts, we have to get the answers to lots of questions. Who wrote it? Why? What did the words mean at the time and in the context of their origin? How have the meanings been interpreted and, indeed, revised by later scholars and doctors? I've often wondered how in the world anyone can be expected to study, let alone apply, Chinese medical theories without a thorough grounding in the disciplines required to go about looking for answers to such questions. Can you imagine a serious student of Dante engaging in graduate level studies without reference to the Italian originals as well as the subsequent work produced by generations of scholars who have all dealt with the texts in the original? Where did we get the idea that we could study Chinese medicine with just a few incomplete translations of a tiny handfull of texts? The more I think about it, the more utterly preposterous it seems to me. > > It would not be unreasonable to translate the classics to a readable > English with a full discussion of Felt's or other's elaborations in an > extensive footnoted section. I wonder what you have in mind when you say, " the classics " . There are literally thousands of classical texts. Hundreds and hundreds of them are understood as indispensable to the study and practice of Chinese medicine by Chinese educators and doctors. The only unreasonable expectation is that there will suddenly appear enough human (not to mention financial) resources to undertake the work that needs to be done. I think one important thing that discussions such as this can and must do is to bring the problem into focus and perspective. Those who profess to study and teach Chinese medicine face a truly daunting challenge just in terms of the literary sources. Ken Rose Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 12, 2000 Report Share Posted May 12, 2000 Hi Ken good to have you aboard. I followed your posts at blue poppy last month. , " Cosmic Dragon LLC " <yulong@m...> wrote: > Hi Karen, > > - > > do is to bring the problem into focus and perspective. Those who > profess to study and teach Chinese medicine face a truly daunting > challenge just in terms of the literary sources. > > Ken Ro Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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