Guest guest Posted May 24, 2000 Report Share Posted May 24, 2000 As to where you can go to learn pulse diagnosis there are a few options. Leon Hammer and his students have a 3-weekends system based originally on John Shen's work. A second option is Bob Flaw's weekend workshop where he goes over Li Shi-zhen's system. A third option, in the Fall (I hope), will be my series of weekends on various Nan Jing and Li Shi-zhen topics. I'm doing another semester at CSTCM, every Wednesday for about three hours, of the first part of how to combine the Nan Jing and Li Shi-zhen material; but if you're not in the Denver area, it won't be convenient. Jim , " Cosmic Dragon LLC " <yulong@m...> wrote: > Hi Ed, > > > What would you (et al) advice a newly licensed Acupuncturist > /herbalist -or > > one with little experience in pulse diagnosis to become proficient at > pulse > > diagnosis ? > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 24, 2000 Report Share Posted May 24, 2000 Question to all, Had a patient come in with Hodgkins Disease, weak and hoarse voice, pale tongue, weak pulses, poor apetite, low energy. Patient going thru Chemo. therapy. Yin and blood xu as on of the main side effects from the treatments. Have been giving him herbs to replenish yin and blood. Has anyone had the opportunity to treat patients of this nature? Thank you for any suggestions. Louis K. - " James Ramholz " <OMJournal Wednesday, May 24, 2000 4:03 AM Re: pulses (how to) > As to where you can go to learn pulse diagnosis there are a few > options. Leon Hammer and his students have a 3-weekends system based > originally on John Shen's work. A second option is Bob Flaw's weekend > workshop where he goes over Li Shi-zhen's system. A third option, in > the Fall (I hope), will be my series of weekends on various Nan Jing > and Li Shi-zhen topics. I'm doing another semester at CSTCM, every > Wednesday for about three hours, of the first part of how to combine > the Nan Jing and Li Shi-zhen material; but if you're not in the > Denver area, it won't be convenient. > > Jim > > > , " Cosmic Dragon LLC " > <yulong@m...> wrote: > > Hi Ed, > > > > > What would you (et al) advice a newly licensed Acupuncturist > > /herbalist -or > > > one with little experience in pulse diagnosis to become > proficient at > > pulse > > > diagnosis ? > > > > > > > ------ > Find long lost high school friends: > http://click./1/4056/9/_/542111/_/959155396/ > ------ > > Chronic Diseases Heal - Chinese Herbs Can Help > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 24, 2000 Report Share Posted May 24, 2000 James thank you for the suggestions it does behoove a student to pursue excellence. Earlier I was lamenting - as most students do - that no matter how well intentioned short courses by themselves often prove more frustrating to students like myself. There's too much or not enough in too short of a time. Most importantly no follow-up is available. (Or just take my CEU's and go home). In my opinion this is linked to the discussion and question of " terminology " . I actually get flooded with CEU seminars for everything, including pulse diagnosis. Honestly they create more confusion than understanding. One needs a Strong Foundation First. And one may be a good physician without expertise on the pulse - or at least one can get out of school and pass the boards without too much knowledge of pulses. It seems to me to be not a void of excellent_American_teachers, just a void of American Leadership and Structure. What America needs is their own Shan Han Lun or Na Ching. In California that may be beginning by students who eagerly swallow up G. Maciocia Books. Not Simply because its required reading by the Acupuncture Board. It also appears to be " comprehensible " to most (English Language) students. His books (I think now 4) appear to be filling a void --- in the structured school system. Ed Kasper L.Ac., Santa Cruz, California As to where you can go to learn pulse diagnosis there are a few options. Leon Hammer and his students have a 3-weekends system based originally on John Shen's work. A second option is Bob Flaw's weekend workshop where he goes over Li Shi-zhen's system. A third option, in the Fall (I hope), will be my series of weekends on various Nan Jing and Li Shi-zhen topics. I'm doing another semester at CSTCM, every Wednesday for about three hours, of the first part of how to combine the Nan Jing and Li Shi-zhen material; but if you're not in the Denver area, it won't be convenient. Jim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 25, 2000 Report Share Posted May 25, 2000 Thanks for your thoughts. It's still very early in the history of our industry, so it's not surprising that things haven't developed to the level of other educational systems. But, then, don't forget, even with the level of medical education Western MDs reputedly have, Western medicine is (about) the 4th leading cause of death in the US from the side effects of prescribed drugs alone. (I think there is an essential philosophical error in Western medicine. Control of the body at solely the molecular level can't be readily accomplished. Which is why drugs so often fail. Acupuncture works at a hierarchical level much further up the scale, where emotion and physiology interface. So it can change the body without the cascade of errors drugs produce.) I think Z'ev is essentially correct in many of the things he would like to see included in an acupuncture/herbalism curriculum, including the standardization of language (whether that vocabulary will finally be Wiseman's is a secondary matter). In terms of pulses, the minimum standard for pulse diagnosis in school should be Li Shi- zhen's work because it's the easiest to learn and most accessible in the current literature. From finishing my first semester of advanced pulse diagnosis, I can see that there should be at least two semesters of study if the Nan Jing material is to be added. My students can follow me when I show them various complicated patterns (pulse movements connecting or involving two or more organs, different pulse movements at different levels of the same organ position, etc.), and they're starting to see it in their own clients. But the physical skill simply takes time to develop. It's like studying a musical instrument. Unfortunately, the industry hasn't grown enough to support those all of those aspirations financially. People balk at 4 years when it should be six. The next ten years will tell the story. Until then, it will be a fairly mixed bag. Jim , " HappyHerbalist.com " <Health@H...> wrote: > James thank you for the suggestions it does behoove a student to pursue > excellence. > Earlier I was lamenting - as most students do - that no matter how well > intentioned short courses by themselves often prove more frustrating to > students like myself. There's too much or not enough in too short of a time. > Most importantly no follow-up is available. (Or just take my CEU's and go > home). In my opinion this is linked to the discussion and question of > " terminology " . I actually get flooded with CEU seminars for everything, > including pulse diagnosis. Honestly they create more confusion than > understanding. One needs a Strong Foundation First. And one may be a good > physician without expertise on the pulse - or at least one can get out of > school and pass the boards without too much knowledge of pulses. It seems > to me to be not a void of excellent_American_teachers, just a void of > American Leadership and Structure. What America needs is their own Shan Han > Lun or Na Ching. > In California that may be beginning by students who eagerly swallow up G. > Maciocia Books. Not Simply because its required reading by the Acupuncture > Board. It also appears to be " comprehensible " to most (English Language) > students. His books (I think now 4) appear to be filling a void --- in the > structured school system. > > Ed Kasper L.Ac., Santa Cruz, California > > > As to where you can go to learn pulse diagnosis there are a few > options. Leon Hammer and his students have a 3-weekends system based > originally on John Shen's work. A second option is Bob Flaw's weekend > workshop where he goes over Li Shi-zhen's system. A third option, in > the Fall (I hope), will be my series of weekends on various Nan Jing > and Li Shi-zhen topics. I'm doing another semester at CSTCM, every > Wednesday for about three hours, of the first part of how to combine > the Nan Jing and Li Shi-zhen material; but if you're not in the > Denver area, it won't be convenient. > > Jim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 26, 2000 Report Share Posted May 26, 2000 (I think there is an >essential philosophical error in Western medicine. Control of the >body at solely the molecular level can't be readily accomplished. >Which is why drugs so often fail. Acupuncture works at a hierarchical >level much further up the scale, where emotion and physiology >interface. So it can change the body without the cascade of errors >drugs produce.) Right on, Jim. I couldn't agree more. Now one of us needs to write something to show how acupuncture works at a higher hierarchical level. > In terms of pulses, >the minimum standard for pulse diagnosis in school should be Li Shi- >zhen's work because it's the easiest to learn and most accessible in >the current literature. I think this is correct. And I think the bin hu mai xue/Lakeside Master's Study of the Pulse, both translations (Siefert and Flaws) is a fine basic text. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 26, 2000 Report Share Posted May 26, 2000 Hi James, Just a note, the introduction to the Shen-Hammer system is a 3-weekend system, this introduction qualifies the student for a 16 month training consisting of 6 3-day weekends. This is approximately a 340 hour training and may qualify the individual to enter teacher training if accepted. In my opinion, it is possible to gain some rudimentary handle on fundamental terms, concepts, and a little experience. However, a degree of independant mastery takes years and is necessarily predicated on a strong fundamental training that is not possible to accomplish in a weekend. This is due to the necessity of direct transmission of the experience in conjunction with the didactic components. Sincerely, Will Morris James Ramholz wrote: > As to where you can go to learn pulse diagnosis there are a few > options. Leon Hammer and his students have a 3-weekends system based > originally on John Shen's work. A second option is Bob Flaw's weekend > workshop where he goes over Li Shi-zhen's system. A third option, in > the Fall (I hope), will be my series of weekends on various Nan Jing > and Li Shi-zhen topics. I'm doing another semester at CSTCM, every > Wednesday for about three hours, of the first part of how to combine > the Nan Jing and Li Shi-zhen material; but if you're not in the > Denver area, it won't be convenient. > > Jim > > , " Cosmic Dragon LLC " > <yulong@m...> wrote: > > Hi Ed, > > > > > What would you (et al) advice a newly licensed Acupuncturist > > /herbalist -or > > > one with little experience in pulse diagnosis to become > proficient at > > pulse > > > diagnosis ? > > > > > > ------ > Find long lost high school friends: > http://click./1/4056/9/_/542111/_/959155396/ > ------ > > Chronic Diseases Heal - Chinese Herbs Can Help Attachment: vcard [not shown] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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