Guest guest Posted May 31, 2000 Report Share Posted May 31, 2000 Luke Klincewicz <l.klincewicz@w...> Wed May 31, 2000 3:06am Can anyone help me here? My, this page is hopping! OK! I have 59 yr.old female patient with complaints as follow: 1.) severe fatigue (several years). 2.) weight gain 3.) edema in the lower extremities 4.) chest constriction, with " lump stone " manifestations, diffificulty swallowing and breathing, intermittent manifestation. 5.) generalized pain, esp. in the lower back, mid-back, arms, legs, and everywhere else! 6.) very depressed, " Everything is always wrong...... " History includes bilateral mastectomy (cancer) and complete hystorectomy. Pulses indicate tension at the right CHI position, head indicating taunt and wiry qualities at the organ level, midddle indicating spreading and knotting, Liver shows taunt and slippery quality at the organic liver tail position, throwing towards the head position of the GB, then into the opening position of the heart, and into the superficial layer of the stomach, moving into the Large intestine medidial superficial level, retaining a quality of slippery and taunt. Left Cun position is quite deplete, vacuous, or deficient, depending on your preference of vocabulary. San Jiao, Right upper CHI position level, Superficial is quite dormant, activity picks up at the middle level; suspect NVS mis- coordination with Ming Men, [read neuro-endocrine imbalance], seek counsel re: hypothalmus, pituitary, hypothyroid. [Note: sub-axillary temperature test substantiates these findings.] Recommend: GSDL labs re: comprehensive digestive profile, EFA profile, Comrehensie Female Hormone profile. I don't have much respect for tongue descriptions, and therefore I usually never look at it! So, any advise? Thank you, luke * About eGroups | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | No Spam! | International | Contact Us 1998-2000 eGroups, Inc. All rights reserved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 31, 2000 Report Share Posted May 31, 2000 Why did that look like a parody of pulse-taking? Is there such a thing as over-analyzing? Obsessing on details and not seeing the whole person? and the word is " taut " not " taunt " . had to comment. Sherril Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 31, 2000 Report Share Posted May 31, 2000 Luke, How about doing a Chinese medical pattern discrimination and basing treatment on that? Just a thought. Sincerely, Bob > [Original Message] > Luke Klincewicz <l.klincewicz > > 05/31/2000 2:11:01 AM > ok, i'm human and i need help. > > Luke Klincewicz <l.klincewicz@w...> > Wed May 31, 2000 3:06am > Can anyone help me here? > > > My, this page is hopping! > > OK! I have 59 yr.old female patient with complaints as follow: > > 1.) severe fatigue (several years). > 2.) weight gain > 3.) edema in the lower extremities > 4.) chest constriction, with " lump stone " manifestations, > diffificulty swallowing and breathing, intermittent manifestation. > > 5.) generalized pain, esp. in the lower back, mid-back, arms, legs, > and everywhere else! > > 6.) very depressed, " Everything is always wrong...... " > > History includes bilateral mastectomy (cancer) and complete > hystorectomy. > > Pulses indicate tension at the right CHI position, head indicating > taunt and wiry qualities at the organ level, midddle indicating > spreading and knotting, Liver shows taunt and slippery quality at the > organic liver tail position, throwing towards the head position of > the GB, then into the opening position of the heart, and into the > superficial layer of the stomach, moving into the Large intestine > medidial superficial level, retaining a quality of slippery and taunt. > > Left Cun position is quite deplete, vacuous, or deficient, depending > on your preference of vocabulary. > > San Jiao, Right upper CHI position level, Superficial is quite > dormant, activity picks up at the middle level; suspect NVS mis- > coordination with Ming Men, [read neuro-endocrine imbalance], seek > counsel re: hypothalmus, pituitary, hypothyroid. [Note: sub-axillary > temperature test substantiates these findings.] > > Recommend: GSDL labs re: comprehensive digestive profile, EFA > profile, Comrehensie Female Hormone profile. > > I don't have much respect for tongue descriptions, and therefore I > usually never look at it! > > So, any advise? > > Thank you, > > luke > * About eGroups | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | No Spam! | > International | Contact Us > 1998-2000 eGroups, Inc. All rights reserved. > > > > > ------ > Hot off the press- summer's here! > School's out and it's sizzling hot. Whether you're planning a > graduation party, a summer brunch, or simple birthday party, > shop GreatEntertaining.com before your next celebration. > http://click./1/4473/9/_/542111/_/959760659/ > ------ > > Chronic Diseases Heal - Chinese Herbs Can Help > --- Robert Flaws --- bobflaws --- EarthLink: It's your Internet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 31, 2000 Report Share Posted May 31, 2000 Bob, As I am not nearly as well versed in TCM as you are, I was hoping to gain insight in this regard. It seems to me that sometimes the real presentation of a patient's dis-ease does not always neatly fit into the structures of a paradigm. Just a thought, luke , " Robert Flaws " <bobflaws@e...> wrote: > Luke, > > How about doing a Chinese medical pattern discrimination and basing > treatment on that? Just a thought. > > Sincerely, > > Bob > > > > [Original Message] > > Luke Klincewicz <l.klincewicz@w...> > > > > 05/31/2000 2:11:01 AM > > ok, i'm human and i need help. > > > > Luke Klincewicz <l.klincewicz@w...> > > Wed May 31, 2000 3:06am > > Can anyone help me here? > > > > > > My, this page is hopping! > > > > OK! I have 59 yr.old female patient with complaints as follow: > > > > 1.) severe fatigue (several years). > > 2.) weight gain > > 3.) edema in the lower extremities > > 4.) chest constriction, with " lump stone " manifestations, > > diffificulty swallowing and breathing, intermittent manifestation. > > > > 5.) generalized pain, esp. in the lower back, mid-back, arms, legs, > > and everywhere else! > > > > 6.) very depressed, " Everything is always wrong...... " > > > > History includes bilateral mastectomy (cancer) and complete > > hystorectomy. > > > > Pulses indicate tension at the right CHI position, head indicating > > taunt and wiry qualities at the organ level, midddle indicating > > spreading and knotting, Liver shows taunt and slippery quality at the > > organic liver tail position, throwing towards the head position of > > the GB, then into the opening position of the heart, and into the > > superficial layer of the stomach, moving into the Large intestine > > medidial superficial level, retaining a quality of slippery and taunt. > > > > Left Cun position is quite deplete, vacuous, or deficient, depending > > on your preference of vocabulary. > > > > San Jiao, Right upper CHI position level, Superficial is quite > > dormant, activity picks up at the middle level; suspect NVS mis- > > coordination with Ming Men, [read neuro-endocrine imbalance], seek > > counsel re: hypothalmus, pituitary, hypothyroid. [Note: sub- axillary > > temperature test substantiates these findings.] > > > > Recommend: GSDL labs re: comprehensive digestive profile, EFA > > profile, Comrehensie Female Hormone profile. > > > > I don't have much respect for tongue descriptions, and therefore I > > usually never look at it! > > > > So, any advise? > > > > Thank you, > > > > luke > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > * About eGroups | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | No Spam! | > > International | Contact Us > > 1998-2000 eGroups, Inc. All rights reserved. > > > > > > > > > > ------ > > Hot off the press- summer's here! > > School's out and it's sizzling hot. Whether you're planning a > > graduation party, a summer brunch, or simple birthday party, > > shop GreatEntertaining.com before your next celebration. > > http://click./1/4473/9/_/542111/_/959760659/ > > ------ > > > > Chronic Diseases Heal - Chinese Herbs Can Help > > > > > > --- Robert Flaws > --- bobflaws@e... > --- EarthLink: It's your Internet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 31, 2000 Report Share Posted May 31, 2000 Hello, Luke Can you give any more specific information from the four examinations beginning with the patient's general form and complexion? thanks, Cecilia Luke Klincewicz wrote: > Luke Klincewicz <l.klincewicz@w...> > Wed May 31, 2000 3:06am > Can anyone help me here? > > My, this page is hopping! > > OK! I have 59 yr.old female patient with complaints as follow: > > 1.) severe fatigue (several years). > 2.) weight gain > 3.) edema in the lower extremities > 4.) chest constriction, with " lump stone " manifestations, > diffificulty swallowing and breathing, intermittent manifestation. > > 5.) generalized pain, esp. in the lower back, mid-back, arms, legs, > and everywhere else! > > 6.) very depressed, " Everything is always wrong...... " > > History includes bilateral mastectomy (cancer) and complete > hystorectomy. > > Pulses indicate tension at the right CHI position, head indicating > taunt and wiry qualities at the organ level, midddle indicating > spreading and knotting, Liver shows taunt and slippery quality at the > organic liver tail position, throwing towards the head position of > the GB, then into the opening position of the heart, and into the > superficial layer of the stomach, moving into the Large intestine > medidial superficial level, retaining a quality of slippery and taunt. > > Left Cun position is quite deplete, vacuous, or deficient, depending > on your preference of vocabulary. > > San Jiao, Right upper CHI position level, Superficial is quite > dormant, activity picks up at the middle level; suspect NVS mis- > coordination with Ming Men, [read neuro-endocrine imbalance], seek > counsel re: hypothalmus, pituitary, hypothyroid. [Note: sub-axillary > temperature test substantiates these findings.] > > Recommend: GSDL labs re: comprehensive digestive profile, EFA > profile, Comrehensie Female Hormone profile. > > I don't have much respect for tongue descriptions, and therefore I > usually never look at it! > > So, any advise? > > Thank you, > > luke > > * About eGroups | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | No Spam! | > International | Contact Us > 1998-2000 eGroups, Inc. All rights reserved. > > ------ > Hot off the press- summer's here! > School's out and it's sizzling hot. Whether you're planning a > graduation party, a summer brunch, or simple birthday party, > shop GreatEntertaining.com before your next celebration. > http://click./1/4473/9/_/542111/_/959760659/ > ------ > > Chronic Diseases Heal - Chinese Herbs Can Help -- Cecilia Lee cecilia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 31, 2000 Report Share Posted May 31, 2000 LOL! ;-) luke , " HappyHerbalist.com " <Health@H...> wrote: > would that be a tight taut taunt > > laughter the best Medicine > > > sherrilgol@a... [sherrilgol@a...] > Wednesday, May 31, 2000 10:40 AM > > Re: ok, i'm human and i need help. > > > Why did that look like a parody of pulse-taking? Is there such a thing as > over-analyzing? Obsessing on details and not seeing the whole person? and > the word is " taut " not " taunt " . > > had to comment. > > Sherril Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 31, 2000 Report Share Posted May 31, 2000 would that be a tight taut taunt laughter the best Medicine sherrilgol [sherrilgol] Wednesday, May 31, 2000 10:40 AM Re: ok, i'm human and i need help. Why did that look like a parody of pulse-taking? Is there such a thing as over-analyzing? Obsessing on details and not seeing the whole person? and the word is " taut " not " taunt " . had to comment. Sherril Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 31, 2000 Report Share Posted May 31, 2000 >It seems to me that sometimes the real > presentation of a patient's dis-ease does not always neatly fit into > the structures of a paradigm. My limited experience has shown me that patients do not often fit within the 'boxes' we learned to draw in acupuncture school. But, I think the principles and various tools of Chinese medicine can allow us to discover the unique patterns and presentations that our patients do have. I think the paradigm works, but the various structures within it that we have 'learned' are often challenged by our patients, and the conditions with which they present. Which forces us to more deeply learn how this medicine works. Just my 2¢ Michael Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 1, 2000 Report Share Posted June 1, 2000 Luke, At this point in time, that's not my experience. It has been years since I was unable to build a multi-pattern discrimination for a patient. I agree that trying to fit some patients into a single pattern often does not work. However, once you understand that most of our American patients present with combinations of 5-10 patterns, then there is a huge amount of variability in this system that can account for virtually anyone. The issue is not fitting the patient into the system but building the system to fit the patient. I believe that Chinese medical pattern discrimination has those tools, and that is the beauty of this system. Bob > [Original Message] > Luke Klincewicz <l.klincewicz > > 05/31/2000 1:34:16 PM > Re: ok, i'm human and i need help. > > Bob, > > As I am not nearly as well versed in TCM as you are, I was hoping to > gain insight in this regard. It seems to me that sometimes the real > presentation of a patient's dis-ease does not always neatly fit into > the structures of a paradigm. > > Just a thought, > > luke > > > , " Robert Flaws " <bobflaws@e...> > wrote: > > Luke, > > > > How about doing a Chinese medical pattern discrimination and basing > > treatment on that? Just a thought. > > > > Sincerely, > > > > Bob > > > > > > > [Original Message] > > > Luke Klincewicz <l.klincewicz@w...> > > > > > > 05/31/2000 2:11:01 AM > > > ok, i'm human and i need help. > > > > > > Luke Klincewicz <l.klincewicz@w...> > > > Wed May 31, 2000 3:06am > > > Can anyone help me here? > > > > > > > > > My, this page is hopping! > > > > > > OK! I have 59 yr.old female patient with complaints as follow: > > > > > > 1.) severe fatigue (several years). > > > 2.) weight gain > > > 3.) edema in the lower extremities > > > 4.) chest constriction, with " lump stone " manifestations, > > > diffificulty swallowing and breathing, intermittent manifestation. > > > > > > 5.) generalized pain, esp. in the lower back, mid-back, arms, > legs, > > > and everywhere else! > > > > > > 6.) very depressed, " Everything is always wrong...... " > > > > > > History includes bilateral mastectomy (cancer) and complete > > > hystorectomy. > > > > > > Pulses indicate tension at the right CHI position, head indicating > > > taunt and wiry qualities at the organ level, midddle indicating > > > spreading and knotting, Liver shows taunt and slippery quality at > the > > > organic liver tail position, throwing towards the head position of > > > the GB, then into the opening position of the heart, and into the > > > superficial layer of the stomach, moving into the Large intestine > > > medidial superficial level, retaining a quality of slippery and > taunt. > > > > > > Left Cun position is quite deplete, vacuous, or deficient, > depending > > > on your preference of vocabulary. > > > > > > San Jiao, Right upper CHI position level, Superficial is quite > > > dormant, activity picks up at the middle level; suspect NVS mis- > > > coordination with Ming Men, [read neuro-endocrine imbalance], seek > > > counsel re: hypothalmus, pituitary, hypothyroid. [Note: sub- > axillary > > > temperature test substantiates these findings.] > > > > > > Recommend: GSDL labs re: comprehensive digestive profile, EFA > > > profile, Comrehensie Female Hormone profile. > > > > > > I don't have much respect for tongue descriptions, and therefore I > > > usually never look at it! > > > > > > So, any advise? > > > > > > Thank you, > > > > > > luke > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > * About eGroups | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | No Spam! | > > > International | Contact Us > > > 1998-2000 eGroups, Inc. All rights reserved. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------ > > > Hot off the press- summer's here! > > > School's out and it's sizzling hot. Whether you're planning a > > > graduation party, a summer brunch, or simple birthday party, > > > shop GreatEntertaining.com before your next celebration. > > > http://click./1/4473/9/_/542111/_/959760659/ > > > > ------ > > > > > > Chronic Diseases Heal - Chinese Herbs Can Help > > > > > > > > > > > --- Robert Flaws > > --- bobflaws@e... > > --- EarthLink: It's your Internet. > > > ------ > Accurate impartial advice on everything from laptops to table saws. > http://click./1/4634/9/_/542111/_/959801655/ > ------ > > Chronic Diseases Heal - Chinese Herbs Can Help > --- Robert Flaws --- bobflaws --- EarthLink: It's your Internet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.