Guest guest Posted June 5, 2000 Report Share Posted June 5, 2000 Ken Have you seen this piece? I have. very disconcerting about TCM in china, also hits a few spots about american styles, as well. , " " < zrosenberg@p...> wrote: > Jason, Also, you must read Manfred Porkert's book, > " Debased " . The lead article is available on his website, www.phainon.com. He is an honorary instructor at a TCM college, and he confirms much of what Dagmar states. Read it and get back to me. > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 5, 2000 Report Share Posted June 5, 2000 I read this piece as the author's opinions and observations, none of which make a great deal of sense to me. I suppose in the end I'd have to say that this is because on balance, they clash with my own observations and opinions; and since the author sites virtually no data to support his conclusions, I don't know where to go with it. I'm especially doubious about the value of the opinions and observations in the piece because in those few cases where he makes some supposedly factual remark, I believe his facts are simply wrong. For example, at the end of the piece he says " ...at the end of the 20th century, most Chinese are again experiencing conditions of material abundance significantly above those in most other countries including those of the industrialized West. " He cites as the source of this an earlier comment of his own about the amount of food thrown away in China. There are 900,000,000 Chinese peasants, roughly 90% of the population. By my own observations, these folks don't live at anywhere near the standards of even the poor in the industrialized West. I really don't know what he's talking about in this particular case. Just makes me wonder about other assertions he makes throughout the piece. I'll leave it at that. Ken - <herb-t Monday, June 05, 2000 3:14 PM Re: TCM in China/Porkert > Ken > > Have you seen this piece? I have. very disconcerting about TCM in > china, also hits a few spots about american styles, as well. > > > , " " < > zrosenberg@p...> wrote: > > Jason, > Also, you must read Manfred Porkert's book, > > " Debased " . The lead article is available on his > website, www.phainon.com. He is an honorary instructor at a TCM > college, and he confirms much of what Dagmar states. Read it and get > back to me. > > > > > > > > ------ > Buy and sell used, rare and vintage gear at the Web's best > music gear auction. Register to enter the weekly gear giveaway! > http://click./1/3735/9/_/542111/_/960243254/ > ------ > > Chronic Diseases Heal - Chinese Herbs Can Help > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 5, 2000 Report Share Posted June 5, 2000 Ken, The rest of the book (Debasing of ) does have records of specific observations at TCM Colleges in mainland China. I, personally, have developed a more compassionate view of what transpires at mainland schools, largely based on your sharing your own experiences with me of present conditions in China. However, that does not decrease my concerns for the status of TCM in China. . . .just because of the complexity of the situation there, it is hard to point the finger at one faction or cause. > > >I read this piece as the author's opinions and observations, none of >which make a great deal of sense to me. I suppose in the end I'd >have to say that this is because on balance, they clash with my own >observations and opinions; and since the author sites virtually no >data to support his conclusions, I don't know where to go with >it. > >I'm especially doubious about the value of the opinions and observations >in the piece because in those few cases where he makes some >supposedly factual remark, I believe his facts are simply wrong. > >For example, at the end of the piece he says " ...at the end of the 20th >century, most Chinese are again experiencing conditions of material >abundance significantly above those in most other countries including >those of the industrialized West. " > >He cites as the source of this an earlier comment of his own about >the amount of food thrown away in China. > >There are 900,000,000 Chinese peasants, roughly 90% of the >population. By my own observations, these folks don't live >at anywhere near the standards of even the poor in the industrialized >West. I really don't know what he's talking about in this particular >case. Just makes me wonder about other assertions he makes >throughout the piece. > >I'll leave it at that. > >Ken > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 5, 2000 Report Share Posted June 5, 2000 Z'ev, > The rest of the book (Debasing of ) does have records of > specific observations at TCM Colleges in mainland China. I, personally, > have developed a more compassionate view of what transpires at mainland > schools, largely based on your sharing your own experiences with me of > present conditions in China. However, that does not decrease my concerns > for the status of TCM in China. . . .just because of the complexity of the > situation there, it is hard to point the finger at one faction or cause. I quite agree. I'm not even sure what motivation anyone would have for imagining or looking for a single cause for such a complex situation. It's like asking what is the single cause of the complicated mess in health care in the States. I'm sure people develop simplistic assessments such as, " it's the HMO's " or " it's the MDs " or " it's the insurance industry " or what have you. One thing I have taken a closer look at as a result of recent traffic on this list is the issue of how we know when we know something. What I mean is, at what point is the appetite for understanding satisfied? And when do we become complacent and satisfied that we know this or that? For example, the case in point: how many people out there have a feeling like they know what is going on in Chinese medical education in China? All I can say is after having spent six years in and around one of the primary centers of medical education in China, I sure don't. I understand from Dagmar's post and from things others have said, including the Porkert material which I've seen and to which you refer, that a signifcant number of people have had distressing contacts with TCM personnel that leads them to draw various conclusions. The rigors of peer review such as exist, in theory at least, within most academic disciplines play a very important role in the establishment of standards of knowledge. What is a fact in modern medicicine? Well, regardless of whether or not one knows or accepts them, such standards of evidence exist that support (or undermine) any and all particular claims to the status of fact. What are the standards in Chinese medicine in this country? This is not a rhetorical question. I really do not know and really would like to know. Can you or anyone else on the list shed any light on this? Ken Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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