Guest guest Posted June 19, 2000 Report Share Posted June 19, 2000 In a message dated 6/19/00 7:50:00 PM, zrosenberg writes: << No, I am not talking about the present economic scene. . . .but it does not mean that Chinese medicine has any inferiority to Western medicine. Just political and economic inferiority. But Microsoft is the giant of the computer world, and what is their future? Apple and Linux have been able to prosper despite Microsoft's dominance. How? Through technological superiority. Chinese medicine will survive as a QUALITY medicine, as a clear alternative to biomedicine when necessary or desired, not as a second-rate biomedical clone. >> We will never make it as a biomedical clone. Only as being represented as the voice of experience. Our experiences didn't provide us with all of the information, but more than any other field that still exists. Our history can bring us in the future as we look at the world thru OM eyes. To sum up, the idea that biomedical diagnosis is somehow more precise, and serves our purpose as TCM practitioners, in my opinion, is false and even dangerous. It takes the power out of our hands and will lead to the dilution and eventual disappearance of Chinese medicine as an independant profession. This is true, altho we do need to have enough of an understanding to do simple western medical diagnostics so that we can refer properly, especially if we are in a state where we are primary care. We are still not usng the western diagnostic system to make our diagnosis, treatments, and prognosis, altho experience can lead us to a good idea of the latter. David Molony Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 19, 2000 Report Share Posted June 19, 2000 We should be (in my opinion) working to prove efficacy in clinical settings. How can we expect insurance reimbursement from them on our terms when we have yet to prove efficacy on their terms. The studies are so few and so pitiful. If our organizations would quit bickering and encouraged reputable studies, and these studies showed that acupuncture really worked for 1/10th of what we claim it does, the weight of this evidence would change the nature of the marketplace. As much as ze'v would like to have TCM be on an equal foot with conventional medicine this is a pipe dream. Even chiropractors, who are closest (in this state) to being on an equal footing with MDs as far as insurance goes don't come up with diagnosis's from their own system using their own language. And if we are to work hand and hand with MDs can we really expect them to understand Liver Yang rising? Especially when another practitioner would come up with another, and also potentially correct diagnosis for the same patient!! And a third practitioner may come up with a third different diagnosis, etc. Denise Send instant messages with Messenger. http://im./ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 19, 2000 Report Share Posted June 19, 2000 I agree with Z'ev. Many western medical professionals are fascinated by the concepts in Chinese medicine that describe exactly the same phenomena they see in patients. My cardiology nurse practitioner, who of course deals with hypertension on a daily basis, has been extremely interested in the Chinese view of hypertension, and being a bright person, she can certainly understand the basic idea of yang rising. This doesn't mean we are close to being able to create new ICD-9 codes for TCM diagnoses, but I think we should stick to our guns. Of course, I last week stated that I do use ICD-9 codes without too much trouble, and that is true. But my chart notes contain a TCM diagnosis which can be backed up with clinical information from our own medical tradition. Julie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 19, 2000 Report Share Posted June 19, 2000 >We should be (in my opinion) working to prove efficacy >in clinical settings. How can we expect insurance >reimbursement from them on our terms when we have yet >to prove efficacy on their terms. The studies are so >few and so pitiful. If our organizations would quit >bickering and encouraged reputable studies, and these >studies showed that acupuncture really worked >for 1/10th of what we claim it does, the weight of >this evidence would change the nature of the >marketplace. Agreed. There is nothing wrong with 'reputable studies'. . . .but the framework has to be developed. I think Hammerschlag has come closest to developing good study protocols, and Bob Felt has some excellant ideas. >As much as ze'v would like to have TCM be on an equal >foot with conventional medicine this is a pipe dream. No, I am not talking about the present economic scene. . . .but it does not mean that Chinese medicine has any inferiority to Western medicine. Just political and economic inferiority. But Microsoft is the giant of the computer world, and what is their future? Apple and Linux have been able to prosper despite Microsoft's dominance. How? Through technological superiority. Chinese medicine will survive as a QUALITY medicine, as a clear alternative to biomedicine when necessary or desired, not as a second-rate biomedical clone. >Even chiropractors, who are closest (in this state) to >being on an >equal footing with MDs as far as insurance goes don't >come up with diagnosis's from their own system using >their own language. And if we are to work hand and >hand with MDs can we really expect them to understand >Liver Yang rising? Especially when another >practitioner would come up with another, and also >potentially correct diagnosis for the same patient!! >And a third practitioner may come up with a >third different diagnosis, etc. Denise, We'd better find a way to communcate with physicians about liver yang rising. . . .otherwise, we are finished. I have found it more than possible to communicate Chinese medical concepts to lay people and medical professionals, with a bit of explanation. Why this attitude on the part of so many TCM practitioners? We were trained and licensed to practice Chinese medicine, not Western medicine. As far as different diagnoses. . . .while this is possible, it is also possible among Western physicians. I have had scores of patients who received different diagnoses and treatments from different physicians. So what is so different here? Some of this is perception, some incompetence. We are still a young profession, and relatively new practitioners of TCM easily can make superficial or off-the-mark diagnoses. And if a different diagnosis is the result of being trained in a different system (such as Japanese acupuncture, Worsley acupuncture, Kanpo herbalism), each practitioner, in theory, should have the conceptual tools to back them up. To sum up, the idea that biomedical diagnosis is somehow more precise, and serves our purpose as TCM practitioners, in my opinion, is false and even dangerous. It takes the power out of our hands and will lead to the dilution and eventual disappearance of Chinese medicine as an independant profession. > >Denise > > > >Send instant messages with Messenger. >http://im./ > >------ >Free, Unlimited Calls Anywhere! >Visit Firetalk.com - click below. >http://click./1/5479/9/_/542111/_/961457046/ >------ > >Chinese Herbal Medicine, a voluntary organization of licensed healthcare >practitioners, matriculated students and postgraduate academics >specializing in Chinese Herbal Medicine, provides a variety of >professional services, including board approved online continuing >education. > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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