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In a message dated 6/19/00 7:50:00 PM, zrosenberg writes:

 

<< No, I am not talking about the present economic scene. . . .but it does not

mean that Chinese medicine has any inferiority to Western medicine. Just

political and economic inferiority. But Microsoft is the giant of the

computer world, and what is their future? Apple and Linux have been able

to prosper despite Microsoft's dominance. How? Through technological

superiority. Chinese medicine will survive as a QUALITY medicine, as a

clear alternative to biomedicine when necessary or desired, not as a

second-rate biomedical clone. >>

 

We will never make it as a biomedical clone. Only as being represented as the

voice of experience. Our experiences didn't provide us with all of the

information, but more than any other field that still exists. Our history can

bring us in the future as we look at the world thru OM eyes.

 

To sum up, the idea that biomedical diagnosis is somehow more precise, and

serves our purpose as TCM practitioners, in my opinion, is false and even

dangerous. It takes the power out of our hands and will lead to the

dilution and eventual disappearance of Chinese medicine as an independant

profession.

 

This is true, altho we do need to have enough of an understanding to do

simple western medical diagnostics so that we can refer properly, especially

if we are in a state where we are primary care. We are still not usng the

western diagnostic system to make our diagnosis, treatments, and prognosis,

altho experience can lead us to a good idea of the latter.

David Molony

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We should be (in my opinion) working to prove efficacy

in clinical settings. How can we expect insurance

reimbursement from them on our terms when we have yet

to prove efficacy on their terms. The studies are so

few and so pitiful. If our organizations would quit

bickering and encouraged reputable studies, and these

studies showed that acupuncture really worked

for 1/10th of what we claim it does, the weight of

this evidence would change the nature of the

marketplace.

As much as ze'v would like to have TCM be on an equal

foot with conventional medicine this is a pipe dream.

Even chiropractors, who are closest (in this state) to

being on an

equal footing with MDs as far as insurance goes don't

come up with diagnosis's from their own system using

their own language. And if we are to work hand and

hand with MDs can we really expect them to understand

Liver Yang rising? Especially when another

practitioner would come up with another, and also

potentially correct diagnosis for the same patient!!

And a third practitioner may come up with a

third different diagnosis, etc.

 

Denise

 

 

 

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I agree with Z'ev. Many western medical professionals are fascinated by the

concepts in Chinese medicine that describe exactly the same phenomena they

see in patients. My cardiology nurse practitioner, who of course deals with

hypertension on a daily basis, has been extremely interested in the Chinese

view of hypertension, and being a bright person, she can certainly understand

the basic idea of yang rising. This doesn't mean we are close to being able

to create new ICD-9 codes for TCM diagnoses, but I think we should stick to

our guns. Of course, I last week stated that I do use ICD-9 codes without too

much trouble, and that is true. But my chart notes contain a TCM diagnosis

which can be backed up with clinical information from our own medical

tradition.

 

Julie

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>We should be (in my opinion) working to prove efficacy

>in clinical settings. How can we expect insurance

>reimbursement from them on our terms when we have yet

>to prove efficacy on their terms. The studies are so

>few and so pitiful. If our organizations would quit

>bickering and encouraged reputable studies, and these

>studies showed that acupuncture really worked

>for 1/10th of what we claim it does, the weight of

>this evidence would change the nature of the

>marketplace.

 

Agreed. There is nothing wrong with 'reputable studies'. . . .but the

framework has to be developed. I think Hammerschlag has come closest to

developing good study protocols, and Bob Felt has some excellant ideas.

 

 

>As much as ze'v would like to have TCM be on an equal

>foot with conventional medicine this is a pipe dream.

 

No, I am not talking about the present economic scene. . . .but it does not

mean that Chinese medicine has any inferiority to Western medicine. Just

political and economic inferiority. But Microsoft is the giant of the

computer world, and what is their future? Apple and Linux have been able

to prosper despite Microsoft's dominance. How? Through technological

superiority. Chinese medicine will survive as a QUALITY medicine, as a

clear alternative to biomedicine when necessary or desired, not as a

second-rate biomedical clone.

 

 

>Even chiropractors, who are closest (in this state) to

>being on an

>equal footing with MDs as far as insurance goes don't

>come up with diagnosis's from their own system using

>their own language. And if we are to work hand and

>hand with MDs can we really expect them to understand

>Liver Yang rising? Especially when another

>practitioner would come up with another, and also

>potentially correct diagnosis for the same patient!!

>And a third practitioner may come up with a

>third different diagnosis, etc.

 

Denise,

We'd better find a way to communcate with physicians about liver yang

rising. . . .otherwise, we are finished. I have found it more than

possible to communicate Chinese medical concepts to lay people and medical

professionals, with a bit of explanation. Why this attitude on the part of

so many TCM practitioners? We were trained and licensed to practice

Chinese medicine, not Western medicine.

 

As far as different diagnoses. . . .while this is possible, it is also

possible among Western physicians. I have had scores of patients who

received different diagnoses and treatments from different physicians. So

what is so different here? Some of this is perception, some incompetence.

We are still a young profession, and relatively new practitioners of TCM

easily can make superficial or off-the-mark diagnoses. And if a different

diagnosis is the result of being trained in a different system (such as

Japanese acupuncture, Worsley acupuncture, Kanpo herbalism), each

practitioner, in theory, should have the conceptual tools to back them up.

 

To sum up, the idea that biomedical diagnosis is somehow more precise, and

serves our purpose as TCM practitioners, in my opinion, is false and even

dangerous. It takes the power out of our hands and will lead to the

dilution and eventual disappearance of Chinese medicine as an independant

profession.

 

 

>

>Denise

>

>

>

>Send instant messages with Messenger.

>http://im./

>

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