Guest guest Posted July 4, 2000 Report Share Posted July 4, 2000 In a message dated 7/4/00 3:11:15 PM Pacific Daylight Time, herb-t writes: << After struggling with the integration process at a major > hospital I decided to go back to private practice >> Dear April, I am interested in your statement, because many of our students are interested (obsessed I might even say) with working in western clinics and hospitals. Personally, the idea does not appeal to me, because I see that we (TCM doctors) will always be the underdog. And I prefer to practice my medicine in my way without interference. So, could you share a little about the " struggle with the integration process? " By the way, I grew up (that is, age 3 to 6) on Lake Michigan and would love to visit some day. Julie Chambers, L.Ac. Academic Dean, Yo San University Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 4, 2000 Report Share Posted July 4, 2000 Artemisia110 wrote: > My name is April Gary. I am a practicing Oriental Medicine Practitioner in > Michigan-about 5 minutes from Lake Michigan, 30 minutes north of Muskegon. I > attended OCOM for two years and graduated from Midwest College of OM. I have > been practicing for 9 years. Michigan does not have state licensing, but I > am national board certified in acupuncture. My practice focuses on all > aspects of TCM and I also include numerous flower essences and muscle testing > approaches. The past 1-1/2 years I worked at the Wege Institute of Mind, > Body and Spirit which was a division of St Mary's Mercy Medical Center in > Grand Rapids, MI. After struggling with the integration process at a major > hospital I decided to go back to private practice and am currently opening a > new office on White Lake, the Acupuncture Center of SW MI-Westshore Office. > I am sole owner of the practice. > > Your online learning idea is a great one! > April Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 4, 2000 Report Share Posted July 4, 2000 In a message dated 7/4/00 7:05:17 PM Pacific Daylight Time, zrosenberg writes: << but my interface with biomedicine has been much more one to one since arriving in California 12 years ago. >> Dear Z'ev, I am surprised too. Almost daily I have to talk to students about their goals... I ask them: Why do you want to work in a hospital, specifically? They seem to be seduced by this idea of " integration, " as if they believe they will have the entire hosptital staff spellbound by their incredibly exotic and fascinating knowledge of TCM! It is true that our interns are doing some very good and valuable services at the Westside Womens' Health Center, and the HIV Clinic Being Alive, and some other clinics. Julie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 4, 2000 Report Share Posted July 4, 2000 I am really surprised, Julie, That so many students are obsessed with working in western clinics and hospitals. . .I get a sense here at PCOM that many students are open to the idea, but that most of them want the freedom to practice TCM, as you say, without interference. I have heard other stories like April's. . . .in the past, I had hospital privileges in Denver, but my interface with biomedicine has been much more one to one since arriving in California 12 years ago. > ><< After struggling with the integration process at a major > > hospital I decided to go back to private practice >> > >Dear April, > >I am interested in your statement, because many of our students are >interested (obsessed I might even say) with working in western clinics and >hospitals. Personally, the idea does not appeal to me, because I see that we >(TCM doctors) will always be the underdog. And I prefer to practice my >medicine in my way without interference. So, could you share a little about >the " struggle with the integration process? " By the way, I grew up (that is, >age 3 to 6) on Lake Michigan and would love to visit some day. > >Julie Chambers, L.Ac. >Academic Dean, Yo San University > >------ >Get 6 months of FREE* MSN Internet access! >http://click./1/5727/11/_/542111/_/962756844/ >------ > >Chinese Herbal Medicine, a voluntary organization of licensed healthcare >practitioners, matriculated students and postgraduate academics >specializing in Chinese Herbal Medicine, provides a variety of >professional services, including board approved online continuing >education. > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 4, 2000 Report Share Posted July 4, 2000 I am really surprised, Julie, That so many students are obsessed with working in western clinics and hospitals. . . I know that I am attracted to the stability of a large patient base and elegantly working with cases that Western Medicine hasn't been able to solve. That's the fantasy. But its becoming obvious from my colleagues who are closer to Western Medicine facilities " integration " is going to be a long time in a'coming. L.Ac. safe, compassionate care acupuncture, herbs, Chinese Internal Medicine Santa Monica, California Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 4, 2000 Report Share Posted July 4, 2000 Julie, We send students out to Hospice and homeless shelters, and they tend to do quite well there, rather than the regular hospital system. And, of course, such schools as Mercy College in N.Y. build this kind of hospital integration right into the program. I tend to think that both directions (as an independent health care profession, and within the western medical world) will continue to develop, and if they do, that is fine. If we can only survive within the medical system, we will disappear as an independant profession. And unless major changes happen in medicine (and I am hoping this will, as major changes seem to be developing), we may be marginalized without some interface with biomedicine. But the dialogue with biomedicine should be an equal discourse, based on the vast data and theory gathered by both medicines. We have a lot of work to do. > >> >Dear Z'ev, I am surprised too. Almost daily I have to talk to students about >their goals... I ask them: Why do you want to work in a hospital, >specifically? They seem to be seduced by this idea of " integration, " as if >they believe they will have the entire hosptital staff spellbound by their >incredibly exotic and fascinating knowledge of TCM! > >It is true that our interns are doing some very good and valuable services at >the Westside Womens' Health Center, and the HIV Clinic Being Alive, and some >other clinics. > >Julie > >------ >Lonely? Get Firetalk! >Free, unlimited calls anywhere in the world. >Free voice chat on hundreds of topics. >http://click./1/5477/11/_/542111/_/962772030/ >------ > >Chinese Herbal Medicine, a voluntary organization of licensed healthcare >practitioners, matriculated students and postgraduate academics >specializing in Chinese Herbal Medicine, provides a variety of >professional services, including board approved online continuing >education. > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 5, 2000 Report Share Posted July 5, 2000 In a message dated 7/5/00 10:10:37 AM Pacific Daylight Time, alonmarcus writes: << >>>Why are you surprised ? Only 15% or so of graduates make a living from TCM exclusively and most a poor one at that Alon >> Dear Alon, Are they making a better living working in hospitals? How many are working in hospitals? Personally, I would rather make an average living being independent than make a really good living working in the medical establishment. I am not in this for the money. I am in this because I believe this is a better basic system of health care, and it is satisfying work. Also, just curious: where did you get the 15% statistic? Julie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 5, 2000 Report Share Posted July 5, 2000 Dear Z'ev, I am surprised too. Almost daily I have to talk to students about their goals... I ask them: Why do you want to work in a hospital, >>>Why are you surprised ? Only 15% or so of graduates make a living from TCM exclusively and most a poor one at that Alon - <juliej8 Tuesday, July 04, 2000 9:40 PM Re: [Fwd: Welcome to ] > In a message dated 7/4/00 7:05:17 PM Pacific Daylight Time, > zrosenberg writes: > > << but my interface with biomedicine has been much more one to one > since arriving in California 12 years ago. > > > >> > Dear Z'ev, I am surprised too. Almost daily I have to talk to students about > their goals... I ask them: Why do you want to work in a hospital, > specifically? They seem to be seduced by this idea of " integration, " as if > they believe they will have the entire hosptital staff spellbound by their > incredibly exotic and fascinating knowledge of TCM! > > It is true that our interns are doing some very good and valuable services at > the Westside Womens' Health Center, and the HIV Clinic Being Alive, and some > other clinics. > > Julie > > ------ > Lonely? Get Firetalk! > Free, unlimited calls anywhere in the world. > Free voice chat on hundreds of topics. > http://click./1/5477/11/_/542111/_/962772030/ > ------ > > Chinese Herbal Medicine, a voluntary organization of licensed healthcare practitioners, matriculated students and postgraduate academics specializing in Chinese Herbal Medicine, provides a variety of professional services, including board approved online continuing education. > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 5, 2000 Report Share Posted July 5, 2000 Are they making a better living working in hospitals? How many are working in hospitals? Personally, I would rather make an average living being independent than make a really good living working in the medical establishment. I am not in this for the money. I am in this because I believe this is a better basic system of health care, and it is satisfying work. >>>I agree but new practitioners need to make a living. I just got a job for one of my students at Kaiser, he will be making about $38 to start with. Alon - <juliej8 Wednesday, July 05, 2000 10:28 AM Re: [Fwd: Welcome to ] > In a message dated 7/5/00 10:10:37 AM Pacific Daylight Time, > alonmarcus writes: > > << > >>>Why are you surprised ? Only 15% or so of graduates make a living from > TCM exclusively and most a poor one at that > Alon >> > > Dear Alon, > > Are they making a better living working in hospitals? How many are working in > hospitals? Personally, I would rather make an average living being > independent than make a really good living working in the medical > establishment. I am not in this for the money. I am in this because I believe > this is a better basic system of health care, and it is satisfying work. > > Also, just curious: where did you get the 15% statistic? > > Julie > > ------ > Need a credit card? > Instant Approval and 0% intro APR with Aria! > http://click./1/6034/11/_/542111/_/962818089/ > ------ > > Chinese Herbal Medicine, a voluntary organization of licensed healthcare practitioners, matriculated students and postgraduate academics specializing in Chinese Herbal Medicine, provides a variety of professional services, including board approved online continuing education. > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 5, 2000 Report Share Posted July 5, 2000 I took the job in Iowa because I thought it would be a good opportunity to have a busy practice and get a lot of experience AND make a very good salary and pay off some of my student loans. Though it didn't work out that way. I had a tiny private practice in New Mexico prior to this and was not making even an average salary. The particular situation I was in really allowed us to practice the way we wanted with very little interference and lots of benefits. They paid for all supplies, licensing fees, continuing education, a month's paid vacation, moving expenses.... It was completely dysfunctional as an integrative clinic, however. catherine - juliej8 Wednesday, July 05, 2000 10:28 AM Re: [Fwd: Welcome to ] In a message dated 7/5/00 10:10:37 AM Pacific Daylight Time, alonmarcus writes:<>>Why are you surprised ? Only 15% or so of graduates make a living fromTCM exclusively and most a poor one at thatAlon >>Dear Alon,Are they making a better living working in hospitals? How many are working in hospitals? Personally, I would rather make an average living being independent than make a really good living working in the medical establishment. I am not in this for the money. I am in this because I believe this is a better basic system of health care, and it is satisfying work. Also, just curious: where did you get the 15% statistic?JulieChinese Herbal Medicine, a voluntary organization of licensed healthcare practitioners, matriculated students and postgraduate academics specializing in Chinese Herbal Medicine, provides a variety of professional services, including board approved online continuing education. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.