Guest guest Posted July 14, 2000 Report Share Posted July 14, 2000 Hi, I think cook time needs to be assessed based on the types of materials in the formula. Two main considerations I make are: 1. surface area (the higher the ratio of volume to surface area, the longer the cook) - flowers and leaves are quickly saturated and probably give up their goodies quickly, while roots and barks and tough mushrooms will take longer - several times I've broken open a chunk of fu ling that has soaked in water overnight and the inside is still dry! 2. volatility - acrid herbs depend on their aromatic compounds to release the exterior and most of these aromatics boil around the same temperature as water (as they say, if you can smell it, you're losing it). Yin Qiao San is a san/powder because the Chinese recognized the destructive effect of heat on the dispersing quality of the herbs - therefore it is best taken as it was meant to be, as a powder, uncooked. In western herbalism, aromatic herbs are usually just infused in boiled water, never actually cooked. I doubt much of their power would be left by the second cook. Also, tonics, minerals, and deep-reaching herbs, of course generally need to be cooked longer than other herbs. If the formula is a mixture of volatile and stable herbs or woody and leafy herbs, the cook time becomes a more difficult decision. If you want the patient to only have to do one cook, you can put the short cook herbs in a separate bag and have the patient infuse them in the decoction after the rest of the herbs have cooked, or have them add these herbs for the last 5 minutes of cook time (though most Western sources say herbs such as mint should never be boiled). Recently I've been grinding all my formulas and putting them in teabags. This overcomes the surface area consideration. The entire thing is saturated very quickly. I have my patients soak the teabag for a while, bring it to a boil (covered) and then simmer it for 0-15 minutes (depending on volatility) followed by a 15 minute steep. This seems to work pretty well and it's very easy for the patient. Just make sure the acrid herbs don't get overheated in the grinder. My teacher Wei Li said when herbs are ground before cooking, the surface area is so greatly increased that the dosage can be reduced by 50%, so I save my patients a lot of money. Incidentally, she also claims if the herbs are ground and then NOT COOKED - just taken directly [alone or in a pre-cooked decoction] that the dose can be reduced to only 40% of what the bulk dosage would have been (however, be careful of the patient's spleen). I'd welcome anyone else's insights, please! The contemporary cooking style is often quite contrary to that recommended in the source text for many formulas - for instance, Xiao Chai Hu Tang, which contains both acrid/short-cook herbs (Sheng jiang, Chai hu) and tonic, long-cook herbs (Ren shen): the source text advises a very long cook - down to half the original volume - which might be okay for the ginseng, but I wonder about the ginger and bupleurum... These days we might have a patient cook the ginseng for half and hour longer than the rest of the herbs, and have them add the sheng jiang and chai hu near the end. However, diaphoresis is contraindicated in Shaoyang stage, so maybe it's better if these sheng jiang and chai hu lose some of their acridness. Food for thought... -Peter Borten Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 14, 2000 Report Share Posted July 14, 2000 >Xiao Chai Hu Tang, which contains both > acrid/short-cook herbs (Sheng jiang, Chai hu) and tonic, long-cook herbs > (Ren shen): the source text advises a very long cook - down to half the > original volume - which might be okay for the ginseng, but I wonder about > the ginger and bupleurum... As I learned it, while Chai Hu is indeed a cool acrid exterior releasing herb, it also has a strong tendency to ascend. Many of us have found that patients with rebellious qi can experience headaches and such with Chai Hu. The traditional method of cooking it longer tends to reduce the problem with Chai Hu causing problems from ascending. I learned that you can add the extra water, and just the Chai Hu, cook it down till the water is the normal amount. Then add the other herbs and finish the cooking. It does make sense to cook the Ren Shen longer too, as it is a tonic herb. Of course getting patients to spend 3 hours a day cooking herbs will be quite a trick! <g> Michael Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 14, 2000 Report Share Posted July 14, 2000 Ginseng contains glycoside like phytochemicals that will decompose into simple sugars when exposed to heat. Gilbert Arnold >>> Michael Max <michaelmax 14/07/2000 11:21:07 AM >>> >Xiao Chai Hu Tang, which contains both > acrid/short-cook herbs (Sheng jiang, Chai hu) and tonic, long-cook herbs > (Ren shen): the source text advises a very long cook - down to half the > original volume - which might be okay for the ginseng, but I wonder about > the ginger and bupleurum... As I learned it, while Chai Hu is indeed a cool acrid exterior releasing herb, it also has a strong tendency to ascend. Many of us have found that patients with rebellious qi can experience headaches and such with Chai Hu. The traditional method of cooking it longer tends to reduce the problem with Chai Hu causing problems from ascending. I learned that you can add the extra water, and just the Chai Hu, cook it down till the water is the normal amount. Then add the other herbs and finish the cooking. It does make sense to cook the Ren Shen longer too, as it is a tonic herb. Of course getting patients to spend 3 hours a day cooking herbs will be quite a trick! <g> Michael ------ Wish you had something rad to add to your email? We do at www.supersig.com. http://click./1/6819/11/_/542111/_/963588141/ ------ Chinese Herbal Medicine, a voluntary organization of licensed healthcare practitioners, matriculated students and postgraduate academics specializing in Chinese Herbal Medicine, provides a variety of professional services, including board approved online continuing education. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 14, 2000 Report Share Posted July 14, 2000 <<Of course getting patients to spend 3 hours a day cooking herbs will be quite a trick! <g>>> I've tried using crock pots as a low-involvement herb boiler, but they overcook the herbs on the low setting. Has anyone found something similar, with lower heat that might allow patients to throw the herbs in and leave them overnight or during the day? Something crock-pot like with a wider range of low temperatures (or programable temperatures), an on/off timer and a fairly inert surface touching the herbs... The teabag idea is good, but you do still have a problem with the volatiles. Two teabags might work. Karen Vaughan CreationsGarden *************************************** Email advice is not a substitute for medical treatment. " Research is the act of going up alleys to see if they are blind. " - Plutarch ______________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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