Allergy reactions to Chinese herbs

[Guest guest]

Has anyone had the experience of patients reacting to particular Chinese herbs without there being any disharmony/pattern to predict the reaction?

For example, (1)one patient with Sjogren's syndrome - predominantly Liv yin & xue xu - had violent GIT reactions to bai shao. We tested this in several decoctions and each time it was bai shao which provoked the response.

(2) anothe patient with endometriosis - predominantly Liv & Kidney yin xu with Xue yu - reacts similarly to gou qi zi.

 

I have found no good reasons for tehse reactions.

 

Regards,

Sue Cochrane

[Guest guest]

Dear Sue,

How were these reactions determined? How was the individual herbs bai shao and gou qi zi singled out for the reactions? What was the pattern diagnosis with each case, to determine if the prescriptions or individual herbs were prescribed correctly for each patient? If a medicinal is not indicated, there can be reactivity. What were the violent GIT reactions, specifically?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

on 8/1/00 10:45 PM, Anne & Sue at annedoia wrote:

 

 

 

 

 

Has anyone had the experience of patients reacting to particular Chinese herbs without there being any disharmony/pattern to predict the reaction?

For example, (1)one patient with Sjogren's syndrome - predominantly Liv yin & xue xu - had violent GIT reactions to bai shao. We tested this in several decoctions and each time it was bai shao which provoked the response.

(2) anothe patient with endometriosis - predominantly Liv & Kidney yin xu with Xue yu - reacts similarly to gou qi zi.

 

I have found no good reasons for tehse reactions.

 

Regards,

Sue Cochrane

 

 

Chinese Herbal Medicine, a voluntary organization of licensed healthcare practitioners, matriculated students and postgraduate academics specializing in Chinese Herbal Medicine, provides a variety of professional services, including board approved online continuing education.

 

 

[Guest guest]

, " " <

zrosenberg@e...> wrote:

 

> How were these reactions determined? How was the individual

herbs bai shao and gou qi zi singled out for the reactions? What was

the pattern diagnosis with each case, to determine if the

prescriptions or individual herbs were prescribed correctly for each

patient? If a medicinal is not indicated, there can be reactivity.

What were the violent GIT reactions,

> specifically?

>

>

 

I'm going to assume no form of muscle testing or NAET was used to

identify the offending herb. People can have idiosyncratic allergic

reactions to herbs not based on TCM patterns, though bai shao and gou

qi zi seem unlikely. there are no medline abstracts suggesting this

potential. Sjogrens is an autoimmune disease, which has

characteristics of allergy in that the immune system responds to

harmless or normal stimuli with excessive and untoward response.

Numerous abstracts indicate that many of the same immune system

components are involved in both AI dz and allergies. Also, Liver/

gallbladder disease and pancreatitis are common in Sjrogrens and can

cause severe GI upset with normal food items. Were ALL other

variables

ruled out (i.e. did the patient consume a fatty meal the day before).

 

Also, it would stand to reason that all tonic herbs might be

difficult

to take in weak digestion. This patient might be too weak for herbs.

 

But I don't don't normally think of violent GI reaction as a true

allergy. Rashes, swelling, SOB; that's the typical course of a true

allergic hypersensitivity, like to penicillin or peanuts. As for gou

qi zi, since this herb is a member of the solonaceae family (tobacco,

tomatoes, peppers, potatoes, nightshades, eggplant), it is possible

and

I have suspected for years that some people may react to this herb

based on prior sensitivity to a relative. I'd be curious if the

patient is particulalry sensitive to tobacco.

[Guest guest]

OriI'm going to assume no form of muscle testing or NAET was used to identify the offending herb.

 

>>>>>the only valid test is a blind challenge Give a placebo capsule of the herbs and a real capsule and see if Pt reacts

Alon

 

-

herb-t

Tuesday, August 01, 2000 11:58 PM

Re: Allergy reactions to Chinese herbs

, "" <zrosenberg@e...> wrote:> How were these reactions determined? How was the individualherbs bai shao and gou qi zi singled out for the reactions? What wasthe pattern diagnosis with each case, to determine if theprescriptions or individual herbs were prescribed correctly for eachpatient? If a medicinal is not indicated, there can be reactivity. What were the violent GIT reactions,> specifically?> > I'm going to assume no form of muscle testing or NAET was used to identify the offending herb. People can have idiosyncratic allergic reactions to herbs not based on TCM patterns, though bai shao and gou qi zi seem unlikely. there are no medline abstracts suggesting this potential. Sjogrens is an autoimmune disease, which has characteristics of allergy in that the immune system responds to harmless or normal stimuli with excessive and untoward response. Numerous abstracts indicate that many of the same immune system components are involved in both AI dz and allergies. Also, Liver/gallbladder disease and pancreatitis are common in Sjrogrens and can cause severe GI upset with normal food items. Were ALL othervariables ruled out (i.e. did the patient consume a fatty meal the day before).Also, it would stand to reason that all tonic herbs might bedifficult to take in weak digestion. This patient might be too weak for herbs.But I don't don't normally think of violent GI reaction as a true allergy. Rashes, swelling, SOB; that's the typical course of a true allergic hypersensitivity, like to penicillin or peanuts. As for gou qi zi, since this herb is a member of the solonaceae family (tobacco, tomatoes, peppers, potatoes, nightshades, eggplant), it is possibleand I have suspected for years that some people may react to this herb based on prior sensitivity to a relative. I'd be curious if the patient is particulalry sensitive to tobacco.Chinese Herbal Medicine, a voluntary organization of licensed healthcare practitioners, matriculated students and postgraduate academics specializing in Chinese Herbal Medicine, provides a variety of professional services, including board approved online continuing education.

[Guest guest]

>

> >>>>>the only valid test is a blind challenge Give a placebo

capsule of the herbs and a real capsule and see if Pt reacts

> Alon

 

I was thinking an elimination where the only common herb in various

formula was finally deduced to be the offender. However, it occurred

to me that what if the patient was reacting to a common class of

biochemicals, like bitter alkaloids or heavy saponins. And even

though

the individual herbs were being changed, there was still a basic

adverse reaction going on.

[Guest guest]

 

----- Original Mescommon class of biochemicals, like bitter alkaloids or heavy saponins. And eventhough the individual herbs were being changed, there was still a basic adverse reaction going on.

>>>>

Good pointsage -----

herb-t

Wednesday, August 02, 2000 9:50 AM

Re: Allergy reactions to Chinese herbs

> > >>>>>the only valid test is a blind challenge Give a placebocapsule of the herbs and a real capsule and see if Pt reacts> AlonI was thinking an elimination where the only common herb in various formula was finally deduced to be the offender. However, it occurred to me that what if the patient was reacting to a common class of biochemicals, like bitter alkaloids or heavy saponins. And eventhough the individual herbs were being changed, there was still a basic adverse reaction going on.Chinese Herbal Medicine, a voluntary organization of licensed healthcare practitioners, matriculated students and postgraduate academics specializing in Chinese Herbal Medicine, provides a variety of professional services, including board approved online continuing education.